Guild Wars 2

WvW fans might want to have a look at this bit of news about condition damage. Maybe it only affects downing the Lord of SMC, but it might have much broader ramifications.

Be informed.

There is no official mention of it being applied in PvP or WvW. But here’s a reddit thread with some screenshots of it at work in PvE. An exclamation point is used if a condition has 100 stacks or more.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3062j3/bleed_stacks_over_25_in_beta/

A screen showing more than 100 stacks of bleed:
http://i.imgur.com/YTadzao.jpg

Can you imagine how OP Mesmers will be when all condition caps are released? 100+ stacks of Confusion will wreck melee trains. I sense Melandru Runes are gonna be spiking in value in the days to come.

I can confirm 100 stacks of bleeding in the stress test.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Can you imagine how OP Mesmers will be when all condition caps are released? 100+ stacks of Confusion will wreck melee trains. I sense Melandru Runes are gonna be spiking in value in the days to come.

I’d like to know this Mesmer build that will stack that much confusion on multiple targets for more than 3-4 seconds.

I believe that build is called “half a zerg of us” .

Half a zerg of anything would be strong.

I for one don’t see an issue.

Sure a 90 or 100 stack of bleeds sounds intimidating damage wise but it’s no different than if the same people it took to build those stacks did direct power based damage to you instead.

All this does is make condi specs not completely forgettable or for solo play anymore.

RIP roaming…

Condi is already too kittening strong in WvW

they would be absolutely insane to make this possible in wvw/pvp, I cant see this ever being changed for wvw/pvp

Lol why do people seem to think a Condi roamed can stack 100bleeds alone…. I mean even if he can stack well over 25 bleeds you are as good as dead if you allow him to stack 25 bleeds alone.

Zetsumei.4975:

Lol why do people seem to think a Condi roamed can stack 100bleeds alone…. I mean even if he can stack well over 25 bleeds you are as good as dead if you allow him to stack 25 bleeds alone.

It’s not going to happen but it’s no different than power players blasting you, too much you die don’t forget zergs have no problem cleansing.

this wont be an issue in pvp or wvw. we have small health pools compared to the big world bosses and champs that this will affect the most. the thing is, when you have that many condis on you… youre outnumbered or out of position. if you ever see a 20+ stack of bleeds on yourself in wvw, you are 99% already dead (not 100% cuz.. like… cannon fire from a power build is easy to cleanse). same for torment. confusion is at least survivable if you dont act more than about once.

If you have ever been hit with 25 stacks of anything you should prob just uninstall, this change will make zero difference to wvw or pvp.

Well, it sorta does make a difference if it’s allowed to be applied to structure lords/champs. They will melt even faster than they already do. As I’ve said many times, the SMC lord is not the most powerful NPC in WvW; it’s Siegerazer. An NPC that only requires 5 people to activate in 60 seconds takes that same amount of opposing players about 5-10 minutes to kill.

Players should not be afraid of this change.

At the moment – 25 stacks @ 1500 condi power for 10 seconds is 29k damage over time for bleeds, 22k DOT for stationary torment, 44k DOT for moving torment and 4.4k confusion damage per skill.

You would be long dead before going over 25 stacks.

nihasa.5067:

Players should not be afraid of this change.

At the moment – 25 stacks @ 1500 condi power for 10 seconds is 29k damage over time for bleeds, 22k DOT for stationary torment, 44k DOT for moving torment and 4.4k confusion damage per skill.

You would be long dead before going over 25 stacks.

Thats not exactly reassuring you know. A zerg of 50 peeps would smack 100 stacks on smaller groups in a second. They could run full dire and instakill everything. If you thought the pirate ship meta was bad, wait until you see them start using grapeshot instead of cannonballs, lol.

I am guessing that this only apply to PvE event bosses however, otherwise regular PvE mobs would melt even faster than they do now.

awww man more condi buffs. Guess now i can now say i have an X stack of bleed on me once.

Damage conditions wouldn’t change at all for players. You are pretty much dead when hit with 25 bleeds, anyway.

Vulnerability on the other hand could be a bigger problem. A single shatter/lockdown mesmer can easily get 25 stacks with a well timed F3 shatter.

Vavume.8065:

If you have ever been hit with 25 stacks of anything you should prob just uninstall, this change will make zero difference to wvw or pvp.

I agree, it wont even matter. For roamers it would be very unlikely to get over 25 stacks.

I could picture bad things happening if a group get too close while people are fighting the grub a few epidemics and with lag like it been you blink you are dead.

The only thing the grub has ever been good for is making it attack blue keep…

What are ppl worried about? A 100 bleeds stack would most likely be cleansed the same way as a 3 bleeds stack (and condition transfers would be so much more awesome with transferring 100 bleeds^^). In Zerg fights the issues isn’t the max stack of conditions, it is that conditions can be cleansed every millisecond or so (maybe a bit less frequent^^). In roaming, it is hardly possible to stack 25 stacks of any condition in a 1v1 fight. So if they change it for PvP/WvW too, it will hardly have any effect.

Revenant might have an interesting impact. If she can buff herself with resistance and possibly counter whole condition dmg roaming groups by copying her conditions on foes. I myself love condition dmg play (although I mostly still roam with power, because it is just so much more efficient imho). I still would be excited about such possibilities.

P.S.: At the ones claiming conditions to be too strong in any setting: l2p.

Can we at least get a reliable source of lemongrass so we can get an affordable way to reduce the duration of these infinite conditions?

What makes you guys think it will change in WvW? Sems to me that conditions aren’t in a bad spot there now. I would think most of these condi changes are based around PvE

That’s the thing, I don’t think it will. First response to the OP was along those lines, and nobody has reported a change in beta WvW nor a dev stated that it would. I highly, highly doubt that they would make a change as drastic as lifting the limit on condi stacks in competitive game modes without saying something about it first.

Then again, this is Anet and I’ve been wrong before, so what do I know?

Only thing I’m worried about is whether this adds additional lag to big fights.

The impact is pretty minimal otherwise.

The only thing I can think of is that, programmatically, previous to this change, stacks had a hard limit of 25 to iterate through (a recursive loop with a known end on a 1 second sleep — although they’ve now altered the sleep to a float which fixed condition durations that were not pure integers. I imagine this was a pain in the kitten for them, since it meant adding a float value to each condition’s data structure that is subtracted from upon each iteration of the main() loop — thus making all conditions infinitely recursive unless the enemy has none of that type of condition on it. Ouch). With the limit lifted, it looks like this: Servers can no longer rely on n=25, it’s now 0n, unless there is a hard limit beyond 100 that it caps at that we simply don’t know yet. I imagine there is, because iterating through multiple enemies at once, multiple conditions at once, with an unknown limit is just plain bad practice.

There will be a performance impact, since even in PvE you are still connected to a server. Any time you have to increase the number of iterations of a loop, you are going to see a hit.

edit: ok, yeah, I spent far too long thinking about that.

Odds are it has more to do with the stress in the stress test… ppl are just jumping on any thing and making up crazy ideals with them.

Yeah, it’s highly likely that the stress test is there to gauge how much this is going to affect server performance. What the hard cap should be set to, etc. I honestly don’t think WvW is in much danger.

Seriously?…. Seriously. People in this thread think that in a group to group engagement it is possible to get over 25 stacks on a number of people in the fight.

I’ll say it again, if you’re group is SOMEHOW, SOMEHOW bad enough to allow yourselves to get stacked with 25 bleeds you are dead anyway.

About people who don’t play necromancer worried about epidemic, the biggest issue with epidemicing a large amount of condis is that if you try to hold out for as many condis to stack as possible before epidemicing, the target dies before you can epidemic because he doesn’t have enough health to stay up.

If a Zerg lands a full 25 stack of confusion and/or bleeding on you, you’re just as dead as if they applied a 50 stack…

I’m not convinced that this makes a difference. Especially since a 60 stack can be removed with a single cleanse just as easily as a stack of 25.

The danger comes from application outpacing cleansing, which has almost no relation to full stack caps.

I wonder if Epidemic will be changed.

More than 25 stacks rip game.

There is enough AOE cleansing in a group to make this a non-issue in WvW. It’s only in very small scale fights where conds even have a chance to really stick. Small scale fights = fewer poeple even able to apply conds and thus harder to go above 25 stacks of anything. WvW has always been a power meta. Not a big deal. The sky isn’t falling.

I don’t see condis becoming stronger than direct dmg or op in zergs. There are -40% food, -25% runes, aoe condi clear, -condi duration traits, etc…

Most heavy condi skills are single target anyway, unless people start bring a lot of epidemic necros. And even that requires a higher skill cap than the direct dmg meta.

For WvW, the game-changer would be if they changed might stacking to be uncapped as well.

(Plz don’t do that.)

ASP.8093:

For WvW, the game-changer would be if they changed might stacking to be uncapped as well.

(Plz don’t do that.)

How much extra damage would one do if he had 100 stacks of Might on a Hammer Guardian? And as an aside, how much extra damage would 100 Guard stacks do? If any math whiz players are here, I’d love to hear the numbers.

ASP.8093:

For WvW, the game-changer would be if they changed might stacking to be uncapped as well.

(Plz don’t do that.)

They have only mentioned any work on the condition cap for the purposes of condition damage, and only for PvE from what I gathered. There has been no mention of a need, desire, or intention, to adjust boons beyond what they have already done to stability.

insanemaniac.2456:

youre outnumbered or out of position.

That’s the way I see it, otherwise your team should know how to manage it.

Wouldn’t it make sense to assume this cap only applies to where Conditions are the weakest, and that is against NPC’s?

Bleed was the only condition that popped up to 100. Vulnerability and the other stacking conditions were left at 25. Duration stacking conditions weren’t affected and given how they work any cap change wouldn’t affect them anyway.

The condition duration changes was way bigger then a cap changes. If any thing higher caps are only going to be seen in PvE.

Azrael.4960:

Bleed was the only condition that popped up to 100. Vulnerability and the other stacking conditions were left at 25. Duration stacking conditions weren’t affected and given how they work any cap change wouldn’t affect them anyway.

Confusion also had the cap increased.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Azrael.4960:

Bleed was the only condition that popped up to 100. Vulnerability and the other stacking conditions were left at 25. Duration stacking conditions weren’t affected and given how they work any cap change wouldn’t affect them anyway.

Confusion also had the cap increased.

If you get more than 25 stacks of confusion on you… you did something seriously wrong… just sayin’…

Aberrant.6749:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Azrael.4960:

Bleed was the only condition that popped up to 100. Vulnerability and the other stacking conditions were left at 25. Duration stacking conditions weren’t affected and given how they work any cap change wouldn’t affect them anyway.

Confusion also had the cap increased.

If you get more than 25 stacks of confusion on you… you did something seriously wrong… just sayin’…

Who is the “you” referred to here?

This was in PvE so I am not even sure what that is supposed to mean. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that players can stack over 25 stacks of confusion on PvE mobs.

While trying to take SMC

- INC ENEMY BLOB 50+!
- ALL NECROS EPIDEMIC LORD IN 3,2,1!
- GG! BLOB INSTANTLY WIPED@@@1

Zefrost.3425:

While trying to take SMC

- INC ENEMY BLOB 50+!
- ALL NECROS EPIDEMIC LORD IN 3,2,1!
- GG! BLOB INSTANTLY WIPED@@@1

That already would work with 25 bleeds. No-one does it because of condi reduction and how its very easy to remove the condis.

What im saying is that if you think the bleeds wont be removed then go ahead and do it now, 25 bleeds is enough to kill someone.

Zefrost.3425:

While trying to take SMC

- INC ENEMY BLOB 50+!
- ALL NECROS EPIDEMIC LORD IN 3,2,1!
- GG! BLOB INSTANTLY WIPED@@@1

That would only make sense if you had any evidence of higher stacks in WvW. I guess some folks feel over reaction and unreasonable hyperbole more of a sport then others do.

Zefrost.3425:

While trying to take SMC

- INC ENEMY BLOB 50+!
- ALL NECROS EPIDEMIC LORD IN 3,2,1!
- GG! BLOB INSTANTLY WIPED@@@1

Then 1 sec later the servers are set on fire becuse of all the data streaming lol. Though that is a funny ideal i would love to see it one day as a bug hehe.

There is no way that they could let crazy high stack work in wvw with out simply killing the servers the lag would be imposable to deal with.