Guild Wars 2

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe most people prefer group fights between 10 – 25 players give or take some. But the 40+ endless blob fest is starting to get old. It usually starts out with multiple tags on the map then enemy brings the blob then we combine into a giant blob then the next team. It’s the same thing every day. Is there a solution to this? Should there be a solution to this or is this really what the majority enjoys?

there are a milion solutions, for example removing AOE cap, numbers debuff, dynamic map caps… but blobbing has never been acknowledged as a problem by Anet, quite on the contrary that seems how they envision wvw. i’m totally with you though, its pure garbage gameplay. nothing against 50 vs 50 vs 50 in SM, but the default operating mode these days is pack all your people in one zerg and hop borders karma training everything down by outmanning the opposition.

Speak for yourself.

There’s no possible solution because it’s not something that’s supposed to be solved.

People play the way they want to play. People react to people playing a certain way in their own way. Those tags chose to group up. They didn’t have to. They could have ignored the blob completely or swapped maps.

Yup see it all the time.

Guild raid keeps beating enemy guild raids. Enemy call for help, still cant win, enemy call entire server blob. “Yay we won!” Enemy stay together as server blob, you have to then call yours or wipe all the time.

That or guild raid doesnt mind a few pugs joining, no other commander on map, all map pugs join guild raid.

But the problem is the rewards and fights are with the blob. Players want fight and/or players want rewards.

With the right builds a single player can take a camp, yet when a zerg is running it takes the entire zerg to flip a camp.

There isnt enough small scale things for players to do. And there is no punishment for running in large groups.

If 1 team blobs all teams have to blob. It’s the first server that causes the chain reaction. I like variety. Blobbing is fun on occasion but not every occasion.

Different people like different modes from solo roaming to 70 man facerolling singing choo choo.

Is there something wrong with blobbing up? Especially with regards to pugs on EBG? I don’t see anything wrong with it myself, and I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum, from being run over completely and running over others completely.

I mean, guilds can go play with each other in OS or organise a spot to meet up and fight, but I’ve never liked organised fights with more than 5 people personally. The game simply isn’t balanced around that. WvW for me is about the spontaneous fights that appear in front of you, regardless of numbers.

if you havent been around since the beginning you probably dont even know anything but blobbing. map-based WvW disappeared around 2014.

I honestly wish there was something to discourage people from blobing.. and instead to encourage people to make smaller guild groups.. I don’t even care about scoring as much as I hate fighting or being part of a blob (mostly because the enemy has a blob too)..

Knob.6835:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe most people prefer group fights between 10 – 25 players give or take some. But the 40+ endless blob fest is starting to get old. It usually starts out with multiple tags on the map then enemy brings the blob then we combine into a giant blob then the next team. It’s the same thing every day. Is there a solution to this? Should there be a solution to this or is this really what the majority enjoys?

I was going to post about this today…

You obviously don’t understand what wvw/rvr is.

Players obviously moved around to find “blob” fights.

The majority also voted for linking.

The current designs of wvw are not gvg fight club zones.

You want a solution for all players? Then click the link in my sig and support the idea…

If you don’t want to support the idea, then please stop trying to turn wvw into a glorified gvg/spvp experience.

“PvP Maps

These maps are the “No PvE” zones that remain conducive to quality open space mass pvp.

*1 Eternal Battlegrounds.

*1 Alpine Borderland.

*1 revamped Desert Borderland.

*1 new Arctic Borderland.

*1 Edge of the Mists.

New PvP maps

These would be the EotM factions inspired borderland maps.

*1 expanded Badlands Borderland.

*1 expanded Frostreach Borderland.

*1 expanded Overgrowth Borderland.

Guild Wars inspired PvP/PvE Maps

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Mists
Let’s call these “Hot Zones” (for this discussion) that draw elements from GW lore. Players can play and fight here as normal, and these maps are host to meta events as well. WvW wide alerts can be given to indicate a meta event will occur.
The main goal of these maps is to provide a good place for solo and small groups of players. I would like these maps to be more event and open area capture point based, and less structure capture based.

Homeland PvE maps

I’d like to take npcs and factions from EotM and WvW and expand on them. Let’s give them a purpose for their existence in the Mists, an open world story for players to go through and a compelling reason for players to be fighting the Mist War with them.
These homeland maps would be the entry zones for WvW depending on the color side you are on. From here you can portal to other maps. These homeland maps do not have to be just 1 map for each side, multiple smaller maps could be used as well or added later.

*Enemy players cannot enter opposing sides PvE homelands.

*These maps are treated and played like any Tyria PvE maps.

*Players are not forced into other types of WvW maps, they are only encouraged by rewards.

General “Stuff” for Maps

*I’d like to see underground maps and areas utilized more in the Mists. Homelands and Hot Zones would be great for this.

*Add tunnel systems, like in EotM, to various maps for strategic use and map travel.

*It would be great to have a cohesive story and consistent groups of npcs for each faction across all maps.

Map Copies

Ideally I’m looking to create 1 Mist “world”, but feel the PvE maps would need to use the map copy function.

Maps Recap

8 PvP maps (EB, AB, DB, Arctic B, EotM, BB, FB, OB) with 4 castles in total (EB, BB, FB, OB).

X number of PvP/PvE Hot Zone meta event maps that draw from Guild Wars lore.

3 PvE Homeland maps."

@Swagger: stop spamming threads about completely different stuff with your EOTM-idea which already has been downvoted into oblivion.

Steelo.4597:

@Swagger: stop spamming threads about completely different stuff with your EOTM-idea which already has been downvoted into oblivion.

It’s completely relevant… The current wvw map designs are designed for blobs and cater to the 83%… So I provide a solution for the 17% of voters who want less blob gameplay but like the rvr style.

Either players can accept blobs, or get behind a solution and stop complaining about blobs.

Interestingly enough Steelo, my suggestion tackles 3 of 4 of your wants… Also, the op wants smaller scale gameplay and you want to break up/weaken megablobs, so you need various maps to make that happen.

“- population balance / world linking
- redesign skills / combat (general guidelines: less cheese, less damage)
- scoring improvments (coverage)
- break up /weaken map-switching megablobs”

Maybe in GW3. Hopefully that gets a fresh new, highly optimized engine. Blobbing isn’t bad necessarily but it shouldn’t provide a hard coded safety net from skilled players because of engine limitations. It may be difficult to accept but GW2 has an uber casual philosophy running throughout it, WvWvW included. The game will compensate for the player’s lack of effort or competence.

Examples are :

• The strong passive abilities, some of which are “Oh kitten”/“Save me” mechanics
• The spammy single button mega damage skills
• The abundance of AoEs while having a 5 man AoE cap – big groups need not worry
• Changes to make condition builds more appealing – just tank up and still melt foes quickly! You’re awesome!
• Run into a room, pull a lever, kill a bunch of people – Don’t even need Keanu Reeves
• Stand around on a wall or door pressing 3 keys for 5 – 45 minutes at a time all week and win!

Etc, etc.

gennyt.3428:

Maybe in GW3. Hopefully that gets a fresh new, highly optimized engine. Blobbing isn’t bad necessarily but it shouldn’t provide a hard coded safety net from skilled players because of engine limitations. It may be difficult to accept but GW2 has an uber casual philosophy running throughout it, WvWvW included. The game will compensate for the player’s lack of effort or competence.

Examples are :

• The strong passive abilities, some of which are “Oh kitten”/“Save me” mechanics
• The spammy single button mega damage skills
• The abundance of AoEs while having a 5 man AoE cap – big groups need not worry
• Changes to make condition builds more appealing – just tank up and still melt foes quickly! You’re awesome!
• Run into a room, pull a lever, kill a bunch of people – Don’t even need Keanu Reeves
• Stand around on a wall or door pressing 3 keys for 5 – 45 minutes at a time all week and win!

Etc, etc.

Sure, I completely understand what you are saying and that’s completely rational. Unfortunately, though, current wvw players can’t wait 10 years for a gw3 to (most likely not) happen.

There are RvRvR games in the works, and unless Anet gets on the upgrade gw2 train, it’s gonna hurt wvw.

There are tons of desires for a better wvw experience for different players, so the devs need to take that as serious as they take PvE… Look at ALL the effort that has gone into the PvE side of the game… Now let’s ask ourselves what percentage of dev investment and resources has gone into pvp modes… That number is in the single digits comparatively, but it’s not enough.

So instead of PvE living story, PvE living story, PvE xpac, PvE living story, PvE living story, PvE xpac, more PvE stuff for years to come… Let’s put in a couple of mega PvP updates into the mix and try to cater to players like the op, you, I… Anet is creative and capable enough to make wvw great again.

There was an answer to blobbing getting old. It was called going down tiers where blobbing wasn’t as effective or necessary.

@Steelo

Think about this…

There is obviously a group of players who wants less blob style of wvw and the DBL were created for that purpose. The problem is that when the devs dropped in 3 DBL maps they took away 75% of the blob designed maps… So the 83% complained or quit or stood in line for EB…

We all want different playstyles (zerg, havok, roaming, solo) in wvw, but maps and designs need to support that…

I like solo roaming (goofing off out of boredom really), but I’m limited to what I can do realistically. These maps are for larger scale encounters so naturally there is only so much solo or small groups can do in zones with the hungry and drooling blobs looking to gobble stuff up. The blobbers are happy, but we (devs and players) all know there are other roles and styles that are a bit tougher to offer by current map designs.

If you even bothered to read my original comment you would see maps designed to support both blob and small scale play… 8 maps for blobs gobbling up each other and structures, and X amount of maps for small scale stuff with open space objectives, not beating up big doors and walls.

Nothing wrong with blobbing. With a good commander and semiproper blob the loot is overwhelming and gameplay is relaxed. I love it after a long day at work.

Vieteriukko.6075:

Nothing wrong with blobbing. With a good commander and semiproper blob the loot is overwhelming and gameplay is relaxed. I love it after a long day at work.

And I think this might be one of the problems, all upsides, no downsides.

I certainly don’t mind, and don’t want to take a game style away from someone, if people like blobbing, go for it!

But when you have to work the least, for the greatest amount of rewards ?

Least effort = Greatest rewards. This just seems wrong.

“Everyone blobs, but is it really what everyone wants?!”

Yes. You know why? Because everyone is doing it.

I used to make suggestions on how to break up the blob but its no use, all efforts will fail.

Two of Anets most recent attempts to do so were disastrous:

• The Desert BL. The layout and chokes and verticality were designed in an attempt to get people to split up. What happened? People hated it and WvW was hurt badly.
• The Dragon Banner. I think this was an attempt to make it dangerous to blob up so as to encourage people to split up. It was done badly because there were no diminishing returns on the number of people in close proximity that it damaged. But regardless, people hated it.

The fact is that people like zerging and like blobbing. And any attempt to make them split up will instead just make them mad and play less.

How does sPVP not provide a viable alternative to this?

Nothing wrong with tons of people gathering to fight. That’s what wars are made of.
What i think is disappointing is the fact that no matter how well guarded/upgraded/defended a fortress might be, a blob can literally run over it without significant resistance.
For instance, they can turtle-treb Overlook from the hill, crush both inner and outer walls and then run for the cap, and you can do nothing about it.
That mindset, that way of doing things, has to change.

Knob.6835:

Is there a solution to this?

Yes, one prominent way is map design. It is what changes game play tactics (yes, blobbing is a tactic).

The non-hypothetical example is Guild Wars 1 Alliance battles (12 v 12).

There were 6-7 un-walled objectives on the field of play. When one side “blobbed” up to become 12, the other side could out play with maybe 1 group of 4 capping around quickly, and returning to attack the “blob’s” back.

A simple formula for this map design is as follows:

1. Closer objectives favor blobbing (Ebg), however too far away objectives favor ktraining (Eotm), so seeking a medium distance is probably conducive to more mixed play (I don’t consider alpines to be this).

2. Un-walled objectives : do not require a blob

3. Single walled objectives : do not require a blob, but take longer to solo

4. Double walled objectives : require a blob

So given all of the above, you could design a map with more un-walled objectives or/and single walled walled. You could also design the map around that medium distance between objectives.

I am against statistical adjustments to “counter” blobbing. That’s more artificial to punish the tactic, rather than allowing another strategy to out play blobbing.

Have to say this game mode has become blob wars 2 and it is boring. I’ve even gotten worse because now all I do is spam skills because that’s all it takes now to kill players. If this was always supposed to be the way wvw was played I wouldn’t have stuck around as long as I have. I’m drifting away from this game because the fun factor is going away. When I first started to play we had more players playing than we do now but it wasn’t like this one bit.

briggah.7910:

Have to say this game mode has become blob wars 2 and it is boring. I’ve even gotten worse because now all I do is spam skills because that’s all it takes now to kill players. If this was always supposed to be the way wvw was played I wouldn’t have stuck around as long as I have. I’m drifting away from this game because the fun factor is going away. When I first started to play we had more players playing than we do now but it wasn’t like this one bit.

Yup, so we need a real reinvestment into wvw and professions.

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

They definitely seem to be systematically eliminating all inconveniences to blob fights.

Havoc play may still be possible but it will require a great deal of communication and coordination to overcome blobbing. I would be happy to discuss it and even considering building a server community around it if anyone is interested.

The reason for the blobs is lack of leaders. Lots of leaders means lots of varying groups and teamwork. New players need to be taught and that takes time and leaders to do it. Though with the mergers the leaders have been cut in half or the mentality changed.

It is “get on my tag or you’re making us lose.”. Also the counter to blobs is to split and backcap so all they capture is lost while they are hard point stalled by siege defenders elsewhere. So they are forced to split or lose more than they gain.

This doesn’t work anymore because the general player culture now is “ppt is pointless” we want fights so that means winning and numbers makes winning easier and “siege is lame” and siege is also super too strong nearly demanding a blob to overcome on most fortified things.

We’ve all changed and those with a refined taste want more while others just want to log in and play. It’s just harder to make us all happy without options and space to do it.

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

They definitely seem to be systematically eliminating all inconveniences to blob fights.

Havoc play may still be possible but it will require a great deal of communication and coordination to overcome blobbing. I would be happy to discuss it and even considering building a server community around it if anyone is interested.

This is Not ANet’s Choice. This was the Majority of Player’s Choice.

The Majority of Players Voted & Approved ANet to do something Really Silly.

However, ANet was also Silly enough to ignore their fiduciary duty…for not fully understanding what this Game Feature will do…and for not Pulling the Plug on this Poll when advised of the situation…imho

ANet can wash their Hands & Blame the Majority of Players that Approved this Game Feature.

ANet “Might” have a direction they want to try & take WvW…the Poll is just helping them move it there…which is…unknown.

I still haven’t heard their Vision Statement for WvW.

If they need one…I’d suggest the following:

WvW Vision

1) World based War…that’s why it’s called WvW.

2) System that allows World Communities to grow or survive.

3) War between Worlds should typically have no borders, but should have limitations to reduce or prevent un-fair matches.

Long Term effect of World Linking is already having a negative effect on the Lower Tier Ecosystem…imho

Whole Communities of Lower Tier Veteran WvW Players will stop playing or convert themselves into Zombies in order to survive life while being part of the Blob Armies of a bleak future filled with Zerg vs Zerg Battles & a Mad Max Off-peak Capping World…imho

These Lower Tier Veterans that would have provided a safe place for noobs to learn, grow, and then to Migrate up into the Upper Tiers of WvW…will be lost.

Next Poll that asks about World “Pairing” Schedule…will be a joke.

World Linking Schedule – How often should we relink worlds?

1 – Annual – Top Tier Players motivated by Stack Advantage
2 – Semi-Annual – Top Tier semi-guilty about keeping Stack Advantage
3 – Quarterly – Top Tier guilty about keeping Stack Advantage
4 – Monthly – Bottom Tier motivated to follow the latest Zerg World
5 – Weekly – Bottom Tier Players motivated by Free Transfers & Variety

If you let the Majority decide again…

World Linking is a Pandora’s Box & Genie in the Bottle Rolled into one…and it’s been opened.

Given the Fixed 3 Way Fight Model…will constantly require ANet to Manipulate the Population & Score Mechanics to keep Players “Balanced & Fair”.

Players Basic Motivation & Behavior constantly & persistently leads them to be PART OF the team that Wins more.

Players Stack to the Strongest of the 3.

Don’t forget about the impact that different Time Zones & Languages have on WvW Match-Ups while Powerful Guilds continue to game the system.

The WvW Universe will change…hope you’re ready for a Long & Never Ending bumpy ride…where you’re just the passenger & ANet is the pilot in charge of your flight experience…

Honestly, ANet should have let us decide on a WvW Fight Model that puts the player in the Pilot’s chair, but lets ANet control the Air Brakes.

Yours truly,
Diku

Possible Full Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

Least we forget also, anything less than orange swords every half hour constitutes dead, pvd’ing servers.

Roadbull.3457:

The reason for the blobs is lack of leaders. Lots of leaders means lots of varying groups and teamwork. New players need to be taught and that takes time and leaders to do it. Though with the mergers the leaders have been cut in half or the mentality changed.

It is “get on my tag or you’re making us lose.”. Also the counter to blobs is to split and backcap so all they capture is lost while they are hard point stalled by siege defenders elsewhere. So they are forced to split or lose more than they gain.

This doesn’t work anymore because the general player culture now is “ppt is pointless” we want fights so that means winning and numbers makes winning easier and “siege is lame” and siege is also super too strong nearly demanding a blob to overcome on most fortified things.

We’ve all changed and those with a refined taste want more while others just want to log in and play. It’s just harder to make us all happy without options and space to do it.

Oh man this hits home on many levels.

Dawdler.8521:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

This is also very true as well. It makes me recall the earliest days of WvW with NO commander tags and people using only map/team chat to communicate. Was it chaotic? Yes it was! Allies and enemies were nearly everywhere but never in huge massive numbers and fights broke out nearly everywhere. Commanders tags once people got used to what they were helped teach people to group up in massive numbers. Enter map, look for tag…where the old days was enter map, talk in chat to find out what’s going on, move accordingly.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Dawdler.8521:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

This is also very true as well. It makes me recall the earliest days of WvW with NO commander tags and people using only map/team chat to communicate. Was it chaotic? Yes it was! Allies and enemies were nearly everywhere but never in huge massive numbers and fights broke out nearly everywhere. Commanders tags once people got used to what they were helped teach people to group up in massive numbers. Enter map, look for tag…where the old days was enter map, talk in chat to find out what’s going on, move accordingly.

Yeah those good old days at the bottom of bronze tier before we got linked, maybe a few months ago =D

Sad to see it being blob wars but not every server is without shame. Gunners Hold while outnumbering us most of the time generally sticks to blogging EB and guilds in the borders. Sucks to be outnumbered by them but I’d rather fight them than the map blob for each map national servers we keep getting.

apharma.3741:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Dawdler.8521:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

This is also very true as well. It makes me recall the earliest days of WvW with NO commander tags and people using only map/team chat to communicate. Was it chaotic? Yes it was! Allies and enemies were nearly everywhere but never in huge massive numbers and fights broke out nearly everywhere. Commanders tags once people got used to what they were helped teach people to group up in massive numbers. Enter map, look for tag…where the old days was enter map, talk in chat to find out what’s going on, move accordingly.

Yeah those good old days at the bottom of bronze tier before we got linked, maybe a few months ago =D

Sad to see it being blob wars but not every server is without shame. Gunners Hold while outnumbering us most of the time generally sticks to blogging EB and guilds in the borders. Sucks to be outnumbered by them but I’d rather fight them than the map blob for each map national servers we keep getting.

The crazy thing is that EB should be the worst map to blob on. Since you need to defend while also attacking 2 other sides. It really encouraged several groups vs one blob which would form for a reinforced keep or castle. Borders encourage more blobbing because the attacking force is more interested in busting down super hardened objectives.

If we want blobbing to decrease we need PPT to matter again so there is a reason to split up and cover more ground and we need siege to stop being designed to keep out a 50 man blob with 10-15 people.

Stuff needs to be lost sometimes. Not be ktrained per se, but be capturable with a reasonable amount of effort. Siege is a boost to your groups defense but it can’t be the only defense.

Ever played an RTS against a super turtle? It is long and super boring. Don’t make GW2 that way. Encourage activity and playing for objectives and the game grows in meaning and keeps you hooked. Otherwise you may as well rename the mode to “MMO Team Death match” and realize that in no TDM game is it wise to go alone.

strategy in WvW…… stack the server to win

@ Swagger

A lot of the strategists and combat oriented players who would have otherwise played this game forever and learned it inside out have abandoned it because Anet was too busy pushing not just popcorn PvE but also esports. They were actually detached and delusional enough to believe competitive players would be satisfied with five man teams. Those people are not coming back and the trickle of new players can’t replace what WvWvW lost.

The very nature of pug players means that there will always be pug blobs even if it regresses back down to typemanding (which by the looks of it is very possible). I can’t say the same for any other groupings as the game direction will simply continue to squeeze them out.

I don’t mind the occasional blob fight (the 2 times a week we actually manage 30 or 40) but I also love the 5v5 10v10 etc that happens when tags are down and people are just everywhere.

Catch is we’re at the point where you blob up or get ktrained. If there were an acceptable way to encourage blobs to cap out at 30 or 40 then servers could run 2 or 3 groups max and leave a little space for roamers and havoc groups.

Steelo.4597:

@Swagger: stop spamming threads about completely different stuff with your EOTM-idea which already has been downvoted into oblivion.

+1000

For the thread: just a matter of discussing it in map and agreeing to hold off piling on. We saw the mega blobs in EU for a while, until guilds started cooperating … The opposing servers took the prompt and you got more 20 vs fights more frequently. It’s all about how leadership sets the example.

Our guilds had a lot of respect for each other and would often make a game of it … First to call firsties and reach the opposing group, got the fight.

Our roamers would do their scoutly duties and find the other guild their own blob. Was win-win and a lot of good-natured teasing on map.

gennyt.3428:

@ Swagger

A lot of the strategists and combat oriented players who would have otherwise played this game forever and learned it inside out have abandoned it because Anet was too busy pushing not just popcorn PvE but also esports. They were actually detached and delusional enough to believe competitive players would be satisfied with five man teams. Those people are not coming back and the trickle of new players can’t replace what WvWvW lost.

The very nature of pug players means that there will always be pug blobs even if it regresses back down to typemanding (which by the looks of it is very possible). I can’t say the same for any other groupings as the game direction will simply continue to squeeze them out.

I agree with you on many things for sure.

My feelings are this… There are bigger chances of holding players, getting players coming back and generating new players if there is something really big to advertise. Like “Come back and play our new and fabulous and amazing WvW++!”…

If we look at it now, GW2 will get a light mention on a couple mmo news sites of “GW2 is linking servers and there are new reward tracks”, but that’s it. Players will look at it like “Eh, thanks for something, but I’ll pass”.

Is this all highly unlikely to happen? Probably, but there might be a slight maybe too.

Roadbull.3457:

apharma.3741:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Dawdler.8521:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

This is also very true as well. It makes me recall the earliest days of WvW with NO commander tags and people using only map/team chat to communicate. Was it chaotic? Yes it was! Allies and enemies were nearly everywhere but never in huge massive numbers and fights broke out nearly everywhere. Commanders tags once people got used to what they were helped teach people to group up in massive numbers. Enter map, look for tag…where the old days was enter map, talk in chat to find out what’s going on, move accordingly.

Yeah those good old days at the bottom of bronze tier before we got linked, maybe a few months ago =D

Sad to see it being blob wars but not every server is without shame. Gunners Hold while outnumbering us most of the time generally sticks to blogging EB and guilds in the borders. Sucks to be outnumbered by them but I’d rather fight them than the map blob for each map national servers we keep getting.

The crazy thing is that EB should be the worst map to blob on. Since you need to defend while also attacking 2 other sides. It really encouraged several groups vs one blob which would form for a reinforced keep or castle. Borders encourage more blobbing because the attacking force is more interested in busting down super hardened objectives.

If we want blobbing to decrease we need PPT to matter again so there is a reason to split up and cover more ground and we need siege to stop being designed to keep out a 50 man blob with 10-15 people.

Stuff needs to be lost sometimes. Not be ktrained per se, but be capturable with a reasonable amount of effort. Siege is a boost to your groups defense but it can’t be the only defense.

Ever played an RTS against a super turtle? It is long and super boring. Don’t make GW2 that way. Encourage activity and playing for objectives and the game grows in meaning and keeps you hooked. Otherwise you may as well rename the mode to “MMO Team Death match” and realize that in no TDM game is it wise to go alone.

Actually I’ve played several RTS games and the way you counter super turtles is to put yourself at an early advantage by taking more resources and playing aggressively. Now sure map creeping is a problem in RTS but usually there are sniping mechanics you can employ to win.

Ever played supreme commander? Probably the best example of this there is. You can turtle really hard but turtle too hard and you seed map control, map control gives greater resources so the enemy can build either more units, bigger units or even go for a commander snipe to win.

Siege shouldn’t be the only defence but likewise we shouldn’t have teams so absurdly imbalanced where you have a map blob karma training 4 maps and the other two servers have barely enough people to defend their home border and keep in EB.

Still, I think education and getting people to work together would go a long way. Managed to hold bay in home last night against a 20-25 man group by making sure we had a ballista and 2 super ACs up and a few competent players. When they tried to treb our siege we stealth bombed it then got back quick enough to man the ballista again.

This new format favors the larger servers. The small servers can not compete when paired with the larger servers because the larger servers can create the larger blobs. WVW is not based on who are the better fighters any more but who can bring the larger blob. The smaller servers have no chance against the larger servers. The smaller severs don’t even come any more because of this great new feature that anet came up with.

This new format favors the larger servers. The small servers can not compete when paired with the larger servers because the larger servers can create the larger blobs. WVW is not based on who are the better fighters any more but who can bring the larger blob. The smaller servers have no chance against the larger servers. The smaller severs don’t even come any more because of this great new feature that anet came up with.

apharma.3741:

Roadbull.3457:

apharma.3741:

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Dawdler.8521:

TorquedSoul.8097:

It seems that Anet has decided that blob wars is WvW. That is their choice.

I thought we overwhelmingly decided that with the majority approval of more populated worlds via the link.

Either way, the idea that blobs win wars is false. They may win a few fights but coverage wins wars. A 70 man blob will keep chasing 30+20+20 all around a border, never holding anything for long. If the other enemy decide to field 30+20+20 too, GG having your 70 man blob try to control 6 decently large forces.

The “problem” is that we the players have decided 3 things:
1) More than one commander is taboo, unless its a guild.
2) Guilds fight their own battles, even if they are 20 vs 50.
3) Pugs fight pugs, even if they are 20 vs 50, except in the cases where guilds grudgingly accept to step off their high piediestal for a moment and assist the peasants.

This behaviour lead to pretty much everyone seeking security in numbers.

So yeah. Actually, we decided that WvW is blob wars.

This is also very true as well. It makes me recall the earliest days of WvW with NO commander tags and people using only map/team chat to communicate. Was it chaotic? Yes it was! Allies and enemies were nearly everywhere but never in huge massive numbers and fights broke out nearly everywhere. Commanders tags once people got used to what they were helped teach people to group up in massive numbers. Enter map, look for tag…where the old days was enter map, talk in chat to find out what’s going on, move accordingly.

Yeah those good old days at the bottom of bronze tier before we got linked, maybe a few months ago =D

Sad to see it being blob wars but not every server is without shame. Gunners Hold while outnumbering us most of the time generally sticks to blogging EB and guilds in the borders. Sucks to be outnumbered by them but I’d rather fight them than the map blob for each map national servers we keep getting.

The crazy thing is that EB should be the worst map to blob on. Since you need to defend while also attacking 2 other sides. It really encouraged several groups vs one blob which would form for a reinforced keep or castle. Borders encourage more blobbing because the attacking force is more interested in busting down super hardened objectives.

If we want blobbing to decrease we need PPT to matter again so there is a reason to split up and cover more ground and we need siege to stop being designed to keep out a 50 man blob with 10-15 people.

Stuff needs to be lost sometimes. Not be ktrained per se, but be capturable with a reasonable amount of effort. Siege is a boost to your groups defense but it can’t be the only defense.

Ever played an RTS against a super turtle? It is long and super boring. Don’t make GW2 that way. Encourage activity and playing for objectives and the game grows in meaning and keeps you hooked. Otherwise you may as well rename the mode to “MMO Team Death match” and realize that in no TDM game is it wise to go alone.

Actually I’ve played several RTS games and the way you counter super turtles is to put yourself at an early advantage by taking more resources and playing aggressively. Now sure map creeping is a problem in RTS but usually there are sniping mechanics you can employ to win.

Ever played supreme commander? Probably the best example of this there is. You can turtle really hard but turtle too hard and you seed map control, map control gives greater resources so the enemy can build either more units, bigger units or even go for a commander snipe to win.

Siege shouldn’t be the only defence but likewise we shouldn’t have teams so absurdly imbalanced where you have a map blob karma training 4 maps and the other two servers have barely enough people to defend their home border and keep in EB.

Still, I think education and getting people to work together would go a long way. Managed to hold bay in home last night against a 20-25 man group by making sure we had a ballista and 2 super ACs up and a few competent players. When they tried to treb our siege we stealth bombed it then got back quick enough to man the ballista again.

Oh yes..I agree you best a turtle by never letting them turtle up in the first place. However in WvW eventually you’re going to hit weak time or go to sleep and it will happen. Then you log in to a fortified keep with the entire wall lined with ACs, shield gens, trebs, and 30-40 angry defenders.

Now if you as a defender can stop 30 people with all that siege with only 10 what are the chances they will break in when you’re rocking equal numbers? That’s when havoc crews would punish turtling by capping your less defended stuff, but again….PPT is a dirty word, don’t ever suggest doing what I’m saying because you’ll be scorned for being anti-fights,. We are creating the problem due to a culture shift in the game.

I mean just tonight I had 30 guys respond to me banging on a paper door of garrison with the lucky 7 who made it on map. Funny the first few times it happens, but it doesn’t make it any less stupid. Folks just don’t want to split up because when you do all you find is either an overwhelming group who spams you over with 1111 or empty towers nobody gives a flip about.

It really is sad to see maps thrown away to a single ktrain blob. It’s not so easily countered as some here think. If you split up to ninja stuff (boring) then they come blob over the few people while trying to quickly kill the lord. Then they dump supplies and repair any damage before running off to the next little ninja group to wipe. Try to fight the blob with less numbers and it’s just as boring. Blob up and do the same? Welcome to WvW. No brain needed to win.

At this point there’s only one way I can think of to get rid of the ktrain blob. Have each objective/tier have a set amount of loot that gets divided up among the players in the blob. Took a T3 tower with 5 people? 20 silver each. Flipped a T1 keep with your entire map blob? Enjoy your 5 copper. (Exaggerated amounts but you get it)

Dhemize.8649:

It really is sad to see maps thrown away to a single ktrain blob. It’s not so easily countered as some here think. If you split up to ninja stuff (boring) then they come blob over the few people while trying to quickly kill the lord. Then they dump supplies and repair any damage before running off to the next little ninja group to wipe. Try to fight the blob with less numbers and it’s just as boring. Blob up and do the same? Welcome to WvW. No brain needed to win.

At this point there’s only one way I can think of to get rid of the ktrain blob. Have each objective/tier have a set amount of loot that gets divided up among the players in the blob. Took a T3 tower with 5 people? 20 silver each. Flipped a T1 keep with your entire map blob? Enjoy your 5 copper. (Exaggerated amounts but you get it)

How to get rid of the “blob”… Click on the Heart of the Mists tab and enter.

WvW is RvR. These RvR maps were designed for the “blob”. You can’t punish the “blob” for playing in a place designed for the “blob”…

Let’s start being realistic here ok?

Dhemize.8649, i would just reward with badges and random item, more rewards should come about offense and defense events.

Also guilds/players that want certain items should atack X,Y,Z castles/tower, that would make stuff desirable for obtain certain materials instead of just flipp it becouse we can swarm a empty tower for chests.

Seriously people, complaining about “blobs” is like complaining there are cars on the street and people in amusement parks…

Not sure why there is a disconnect with the concept of rvr gameplay, but thankfully 83% of voters understand.

Complaining or not, it is still a valid issue for many, not sure why you can’t see that.

DemonSeed.3528:

Complaining or not, it is still a valid issue for many, not sure why you can’t see that.

Sure, but not on these maps.

Want a better solution? Click the link in my sig and read through it.

Blobs suck the talent out of wvw. If you aren’t in one then your experience is limited to flipping camps. If you are in one your experience is limited to mashing 111 and trying to hit a guy before he melts under the other 50 guys. What an exciting game mode people have created.