Guild Wars 2

Vistal.2906:

No reason in hell a port or skill should allow you to bypass keep walls. Area-net need to make it a fix point to stop the Bypass of keep walls and Aoeing threw keep doors. DAOC fix this issue like 15 years ago so why cant they fix this issue today!

Apparently you selectively forgot the ability to climb into keeps by 1/3 of the classes in DAoC?

Mesmer clones can bypass walls, until they fix this issue I say fair play.

Hey So i seen a Sf exploiting walls and terrain hacking earlier this moning and today and the 3 SF flying hack. What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ? Last 2 days was actually fun fighting over who gets the last orb, but now its a disgrace SF is back to owning most of the map again with the same crap they pulled the 1st day.

What guild was it?

Nimm im not saying you should get ban for it… it does not matter becuase it is in the game.. but we all might as well roll thiefs and jump in outer wall of a bay and nightcap i guess

Vistal.2906:

Hey So i seen a Sf exploiting walls and terrain hacking earlier this moning and today and the 3 SF flying hack. What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ? Last 2 days was actually fun fighting over who gets the last orb, but now its a disgrace SF is back to owning most of the map again with the same crap they pulled the 1st day.

So if you saw somebody hacking please share their guild tag and take screenshots next time. And please don’t say things like “What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ?”, It is not the servers fault that there is a few pieces of trash playing on it, and its not fair to accuse the legitimate players of allowing exploiters to use hacks in WvW.

Other than that we had some great fights trying to take the orb from Anvil, keep up the good work guys.

Serebus.7314:

So if you saw somebody hacking please share their guild tag and take screenshots next time. And please don’t say things like “What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ?”, It is not the servers fault that there is a few pieces of trash playing on it, and its not fair to accuse the legitimate players of allowing exploiters to use hacks in WvW.

Other than that we had some great fights trying to take the orb from Anvil, keep up the good work guys.

Yes, we on SF want to know as well so we can avoid, insult and belittle, or keep an eye on them as the case may be. Few people on any server want cheaters ruining a good fight.

Serebus.7314:

Vistal.2906:

Hey So i seen a Sf exploiting walls and terrain hacking earlier this moning and today and the 3 SF flying hack. What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ? Last 2 days was actually fun fighting over who gets the last orb, but now its a disgrace SF is back to owning most of the map again with the same crap they pulled the 1st day.

So if you saw somebody hacking please share their guild tag and take screenshots next time. And please don’t say things like “What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ?”, It is not the servers fault that there is a few pieces of trash playing on it, and its not fair to accuse the legitimate players of allowing exploiters to use hacks in WvW.

Other than that we had some great fights trying to take the orb from Anvil, keep up the good work guys.

I would say the same thing if they were on our server as well, don’t blame the entire server for the actions of a few bad individuals.

IMO the biggest blame is on Arenanet for allowing rampant hacking/botting and being too cheap to even afford a single ingame GM.

But hey, its an NCSoft game so it comes with the territory sadly… not much we can do about how they run things.

i love how ppl from SF have to Camp a jumping puzzle aka BBB aka Big Bloody B*****d.

that’s what im about to start doing .Since its in the game I’m building a their to jump walls and do some super exploiting to retake everything in 1 day . Seems legit to me! Get a 5-6 man thief team and take keeps in 2-3 min.

Sf sin guild known 4 hacking

What happened yesterday? I had outmanned buff in every borderland except AR BL. Did every guild in SF woke up and was affraid we could do a comeback?

Oh well, 2 of the BL I joined, when I called to know who was online. I had no answer, or maybe once i got one. And I couldn’t see anyone roaming around. We really lack number, I don’t think we had more then 5 people in SF and BP BL yesterday.

I heard some people say both Green and Red pushed us yesterday, causing our fall. But it might have been bullkitten, I wasn’t there during the turn over.

Niim you won’t get banned for it, but it’s sure is an issue and is not there on purpose.

Yeah maybe you alone, you aren’t a big deal, but imagine a guild of 10-15 thieves, that enter and go rampage inside. We all know a flanked ennemy panic, and you could turn over the fight.

I am usually just a lurker but I had to chime in on this one. Please do not try and make last nights battle out to be "we were cheated’

I was not everywhere so I can’t say no one on any server did not abuse rules. I can say that I was in AR’s borderlands for 6 hours last night. I can say that it was the best fighting I personally have been involved with. We (SF) had 2 commmanders, worked as a team….We wiped AR countless times, and we got wiped countless times.

In the end we were able to finally break through AR from supply starving and trebs.

Thanks to all on every side for a great night.

Anyone can get the current score and post it?

Well, oddly enough, looks like we’ll have a rematch next week if things continue at this rate. http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

SF will actually lose score due to the close match with AR.

I have this website too, but the score date of 11 hours ago :P

I hope we won’t rematch, not that I don’t like SF, but it’s get boring the fight the same server

Hello Everyone,

Commander Gouryella here from Sorrow’s Furnace, just wanted to say thank you for the coordination and great support in WvW!

Keep up the great work SF!

See you all out in the field.

Commander Keeva here SF. For Anvil Rock the guy who keeps putting siege in that hill spot at the bay : D. Well fought. I did see the hackers and I did tell them to stop it we want a legit win and don’t need it. Some of the most epic battles i’ve had at the bay with anvil rock have been simply amazing . P.S We know who your spy is by the way : P

Can you tell his name and guild? I hate those kitten spy that take advantage of being invul and free transfer.

And we have our share of spy too, I’m just too lazy to take their name. :P

BubbaLicous.1328:

Congrats SF, you have accomplished in one day more then we could have hoped for. Your actions by dominating the server and taking all three orbs in less then a few hours again will earn you a position in a much higher tier game. Also it points out to Habib who is monitoring these games just how the existing WvW defenses are so insufficient by default to resist both zerging with hacking tactics.

Bravo!

Ps. I love how Niim was so open about using his cheat. Showing little or no concerns about any potential recourse by Anet.

Didn’t AR take all the orbs the previous day? How is SF taking orbs in a day any different? I have no idea what happened with the other two orbs, but the first orb took about 4 hours, starting with 6 people taking one supply camp under the leadership of Keeva. Four hours of back and forth slug fest with AR wiping us numerous times, countless gold spent on siege and repairs, and yet you talk about it like we just rolled in and it fell in our laps. I was aware of no hacking in that orb fight and we sure didn’t dominate the battlefield.

I am open about my use of inkjet to get on the wall because I do not feel it is a cheat and have nothing to hide. I question your right or ability to draw the line as to where things are appropriate or not. I think using a catapult through a door is clearly not working as intended and has far greater impact upon the game then my ability to get on the wall. I leave it to ANet to decide and fix accordingly. If Anet posts that they do not think my use of inkjet is appropriate, or send me a PM, then by all means I will stop using it.

The theory I can get organized and ninja the keep is unfounded. Sure we could do that, if you’re not paying attention as we use a ram on your reinforced inner gates while being hammered by veteran archers and those nasty wizards and were able to overcome the keep lord and all his guards. This would be so easy to counter by just one defender, that it is irrelevant. If the defenders are paying that little attention just take down the outer door and shout for more people to come help with the inner.

HOLY kitten, we have a commander?? (Sorrow’s Furnace)

i though those were fairy tales that only showed up in Lion’s Arch
kittenolol!!

CC Eva, by passing by, could you confirm us if thief using Inkjet to bypass Bay Outter Wall is “working as intended” ?

… and the use of catapults to fire through doors at to knock people off the rams, and in general AoEing through doors, as well as the use of mesmer pets to attack any siege and operator behind walls. Are those ‘working as intended’?

Yeah, I’ll keep using Cleansing Flames through doors and hitting it with staff auto-attack aoe until someone tells me those are exploits. Until then it’s just a deterrent for the enemies standing on the other side =P. (No sarcasm, completely serious).

Kid Shadow.2691:

Commander Keeva here SF. For Anvil Rock the guy who keeps putting siege in that hill spot at the bay : D. Well fought. I did see the hackers and I did tell them to stop it we want a legit win and don’t need it. Some of the most epic battles i’ve had at the bay with anvil rock have been simply amazing . P.S We know who your spy is by the way : P

I was the commander who built a treb and got backstabed by nimms. 0.0 anyways the fight was actually epic and we hold bay for 3days + and then you guys finally came back 3x stronger breaking 3 of our gates killing supplys, Hiding thiefs behind bluevale supplys over 5+ trebs very nice wish Anvil had as much wvw ppl.!!

I’m proud to be a part of sorrows furnace! We have been doing average these past few weeks, it’s nice to seem some guilds upping it and bringing the points for our server. Had some great battles against you other servers so far! I remember at one point pushing one of you guys away from Askalonian hills and trying to pound your gate down, only for the tides to turn and have you chase us back to AH. This was a constant back and forth for a while, put up a good fight! Look for us people from OBEY!

Sorry to those who have spotted hackers or exploiters on our side, our guild wants a fair fight as much as you guys and we’ll be sure to report any bad eggs we see.

Sorry Niim, the walls are in place for a reason. Your ability to hack pass them does not justify that it is a valid or legal tactic. Since you replied after the statement by the community coordinator, you should understand that you have been given a heads up about using expliots that bypass the game mechanics. I personally would heed their warning.

Vistal.2906:

Hey So i seen a Sf exploiting walls and terrain hacking earlier this moning and today and the 3 SF flying hack. What Afraid to lose WVW legit? Gota get out the hackers and exploiters now ? Last 2 days was actually fun fighting over who gets the last orb, but now its a disgrace SF is back to owning most of the map again with the same crap they pulled the 1st day.

I usually stay away from forums (and I still hope to after this) but, I have to say: I thought at first I may have been hallucinating, but I too saw a player from SF flying! I must also say that I understand these may be a “few bad apples” and not the representation of an entire server, but for the sake of the server (if I was on SF myself) I would be trying to hunt these kitteners down, and get them banned myself before that potentially becomes the ‘image’ of the server as a whole… Or even worse, before other people on the server start thinking it’s acceptable behavior “since other people are doing it”, more and more people start doing it, and it does wind up becoming the “norm” for the server!

Let me also put it this way. I do NOT mind LOSING, losing will happen in GAMES. However if there’s surely one thing I CANNOT STAND ~ it’s cheaters! Trust me, if I saw someone on my own server cheating/exploiting/hacking (whatever you want to call whatever they’re doing that they shouldn’t be) I would be the first to report them, because it should be a FAIR GAME ALL THE WAY AROUND! I like playing any game, even when I am getting my rear end handed to me. Provided my opponent(s) aren’t cheating… In previous match-ups where we were getting our rears handed to us, I still had PLENTY of FUN. Now, I don’t even feel like logging any more I’m so sick to my stomach knowing that there are cheaters in this match. No matter how many or how few, the fact is they exist, they are there!!!

To direct something to anyone who may be a cheater, or inclined to become one, I will say what I’ve always said when it comes to cheating in multi player games: “Go kittening buy an xbox” or more appropriately “cheat all you want in any single player games”… Don’t cheat in multi-player games, not to mention “massive multi-player games”, it’s just not cool, you’re ruining the experience for so many people! So, stop thinking of just yourself (or your guild/server/whatever) for just a moment. I mean seriously, it’s not like ANet is going to give you a million dollars if you make 1st rank !!! !!! !!!

God willing, ANet will pass out a boat load of perma-bans for anyone caught cheating/exploiting/hacking in the future!

BubbaLicous.1328:

Sorry Niim, the walls are in place for a reason. Your ability to hack pass them does not justify that it is a valid or legal tactic. Since you replied after the statement by the community coordinator, you should understand that you have been given a heads up about using expliots that bypass the game mechanics. I personally would heed their warning.

Sorry Bubba, but you need to look up the definition of a hack if our going to comment on my actions, because it is clearly not a hack. Nor did the CC, as of yet, comment on the issue so I fail to see how it is a warning of any kind.

I have been open on how I use the ability. I have emailed Anet asking for clarification. There is really not much more I can do then that. If they respond and say its not intended, then I will stop. Till then I consider it fair use of in game abilities, the same as AoEing and catapulting through doors, mesmer pets attacking you and siege inside the keep, etc.

AKA : I will use this exploit until I’m told to stop.

Nothing again you Niim, but do you really think it’s acceptable? Do you really think that they thought that they should put one point in the whole map where you could use an ability to by pass the wall? It’s the only place where you can do this, and it’s only availaible to one class (or maybe elem like someone said).

I don’t know how you can think it’s intended. And If I remember, they already adressed the AoE catapult on the door thing, and said they couldn’t stop it right now, so it was accepted. It’s more a mechanic then an exploit, and I’m sure you can do the difference. Every AoE work like that in this game.

Byh the way, good fight yesterday SF in eternal battleground. Was some back and forth war, but we were lacking any form of supply. Starting with no camp at all, it was hard to get any siege going on.

We nearly got back our keep, trying to siege it while you were sieging our only tower. We got inside, but got kitten by your mass AoE Cart inside, and then your zerg came in.

Been fun fight overall! But even if we had good number, we had the outmanned buff most of the time.

Niim.9260:

BubbaLicous.1328:

Sorry Niim, the walls are in place for a reason. Your ability to hack pass them does not justify that it is a valid or legal tactic. Since you replied after the statement by the community coordinator, you should understand that you have been given a heads up about using expliots that bypass the game mechanics. I personally would heed their warning.

Sorry Bubba, but you need to look up the definition of a hack if our going to comment on my actions, because it is clearly not a hack. Nor did the CC, as of yet, comment on the issue so I fail to see how it is a warning of any kind.

I have been open on how I use the ability. I have emailed Anet asking for clarification. There is really not much more I can do then that. If they respond and say its not intended, then I will stop. Till then I consider it fair use of in game abilities, the same as AoEing and catapulting through doors, mesmer pets attacking you and siege inside the keep, etc.

Niims, i can’t believe your trying to justify your poor playstyle of using a cheap trick by going through walls, and comparing it to something like the catapult behind a gate. There’s counters for those, but in order to counter yours, we’d have to notice you, in other words you can go somewhere else and do it, without us being there.., if a “zerg” is attacking the gates, and it’s hit by the catapult, you simply don’t hit the gate, just fire from a distance using your own siege gear. easy enough until they fix that issue, or add the fact we fire at our own gates we dmg it as well.

I don’t post much in the forumns, but this is getting rather stupid as I read your responses. So far your just confirming that the only way your server is even winning is two ways, by simply outnumbering us, and by using exploits to your advantage.

gg niims, maybe you should take your own advice and read up on what hacks/exploits are, maybe gain some common sense, because you don’t seem to have any.

Your already playing “easy mode” by having a class that is quite overpowered in regards to remaining invisible through a fight, not by your fault at all, as the rendering issues allow this, but also the fact your glass cannon class can do tremendous damage. I know this because I also have a thief, but I don’t go around going through walls and get on forumns justifying the “trick”.

the more you post, the more you make your server look good. Not!

Darksavage,
SoS General,

Wow, Godfather did you really just say that? Not that I do not agree with what you are saying to Nimms about it being wrong to use exploits….

But you just lumped an entire server of people into one persons beliefs. You also just said that the only reasons SF is winning is population and exploits. You throw out that maybe, just maybe the other team had good coordination and team work to get the lead.

I agree with you that Niims point of view is wrong, but your short sighted comments are just as bad.

I disagree about being the server fault for using exploit and hacks. Can’t judge a server over 2-3 players acts.

I think SF has good coordination and team work, but it would be a lie to say population doesn’t have anything to do with it. We can’t put any good number in more then 1 borderland, and everytime I try to get a group in SF BL, we are, when lucky, like 5-6 players vs 20 players.

I should frap some video, to show that I’m not making this up. This weeks, except monday that we had a good amount of player ( !!???), I always have a permanent outmanned buff except in our Borderland.

Until we find a solution for Rez/Downed State, bigger zerg will always have an advantage, as you can’t outlast them since they can instant rez any lost.

I repeat, I think SF is a great server and have good tactics. But we have been in this tier since release, and every server that got pushed down in our tier, was outmanning us. It’s not different with you. There seems to be a big population gapse between this tier and the others ahead.

Kardiamond,

I agree we out number you. I see that almost everywhere we go. I just dont think a few exploiters are a major factor in the outcome of battles. I m sure every server has people abusing the system.

Dont worry, next week we will start off the week losing to you guys, and all the server hoppers will come to you guys Then we will be the ones with the outnumbered buff and you will pay us back.

Ahaha I hope not, I prefer to be outmanned, at least if we lose we can use the number as an excuse. :P

To be honest, We have been a victime once of a hack that was a major factor in our week fight. It was vs NSP I think, and we had a really good fight defending the Bay where we had our orb. Every big guild was there to defend and we were holding it. Sadly, a fly hacker came in, took the orb, and brang it back to NSP.

The moral of our biggests guilds felt down. When they had put so much effort/ressources just to be hacked, they weren’t really happy. Most of them stopped joining WvW. We lost a lot of player, and one of those guild even transfered.

So yeah, hacking can have a major effect on the outcome of the battle. It’s the moral effect that is the worse, not the orb itself. We need to keep our player in WvW, but they don’t want to play vs hacker.

But this is not the case this week. I don’t think the hacking we heard about had any effect on the fight. But I still hate it.

@Godfather "Niims, i can’t believe your trying to justify your poor playstyle of using a cheap trick by going through walls, and comparing it to something like the catapult behind a gate. There’s counters for those, but in order to counter yours, we’d have to notice you, in other words you can go somewhere else and do it, without us being there.., "

I do not go through a wall, if I was going through a wall or using some terrain glitch I would obviously think that was an exploit. My ability shoots me up out of the water, onto the low part of the wall adjacent to the water.

The counter is pretty simple, you kill me. Why would I go somewhere you are not? What would be the point? To sit and hang with the NPCs? I am going into the keep to fight people and disrupt siege, which is exactly what firing a catapult through a door does. Killing me is the counter, a far easier and cheaper counter then folks having to move their point of attack on a keep to counter the catapults. Mesmer pets can be spammed on a siege engine that is well out of LOS or reach by the enemy from complete safety. How is that any different as far as impact and action, other then those things can be done anywhere and I can only get into the outside wall of 4 keeps?

I am fine if folks do not agree, happy to discuss it and if Anet says that it isn’t intended I will be happy to stop, but you are blowing the actual impact of the actions way beyond reality. I like to fight players, not man siege, so I go where the players are. I killed maybe one piece of siege and 2-3 players, that were quickly res’d, died twice and had to run back, yet by your little rant I was the reason we were victorious after a 4 hours of fighting? The much more accurate description of my actions was that I was a distraction, nothing more. I had some fun, and I would hope the people standing around otherwise doing nothing but watch siege get lobbed, also had some fun killing me.

And what about : Not using it until Anet answer?

We are comparing this to a real coordinate group of thief. Sure, you alone won’t do much damage ( seems like you don’t use it to it’s full potential) but a group of thief with a good plan will ravage the place.

And by the way, killing a thief is NEVER an easy thing to do. Thief has so many escape mecanism, even if you are spotted, killing you won’t be an easy task.

Defending the Bay with thief flanking at the same time? Yes it can be game changing. I saw some server post on the forum saying that only “low tier” server will use the bay to protect an orb, because of this Thief by pass thing.

Sure, if folks stop firing catapults through doors and mesmers stop spamming pets on siege that is clearly out of LoS, until Anet says they are fine. The problem I guess in the discussion is that you see these things as being different, where I do not.

If I had an organized group of thieves, or any classes, I would do other things far more productive. In this case I would have taken a ram to the underwater gate and punch it open for easy access by all so that after we ‘ravage the place’ you would be forced to continue to defend two fronts or withdraw to inner.

@Godfather "Niims, i can’t believe your trying to justify your poor playstyle of using a cheap trick by going through walls, and comparing it to something like the catapult behind a gate. There’s counters for those, but in order to counter yours, we’d have to notice you, in other words you can go somewhere else and do it, without us being there.., "

I do not go through a wall, if I was going through a wall or using some terrain glitch I would obviously think that was an exploit. My ability shoots me up out of the water, onto the low part of the wall adjacent to the water.

The counter is pretty simple, you kill me. Why would I go somewhere you are not? What would be the point? To sit and hang with the NPCs? I am going into the keep to fight people and disrupt siege, which is exactly what firing a catapult through a door does. Killing me is the counter, a far easier and cheaper counter then folks having to move their point of attack on a keep to counter the catapults. Mesmer pets can be spammed on a siege engine that is well out of LOS or reach by the enemy from complete safety. How is that any different as far as impact and action, other then those things can be done anywhere and I can only get into the outside wall of 4 keeps?

I am fine if folks do not agree, happy to discuss it and if Anet says that it isn’t intended I will be happy to stop, but you are blowing the actual impact of the actions way beyond reality. I like to fight players, not man siege, so I go where the players are. I killed maybe one piece of siege and 2-3 players, that were quickly res’d, died twice and had to run back, yet by your little rant I was the reason we were victorious after a 4 hours of fighting? The much more accurate description of my actions was that I was a distraction, nothing more. I had some fun, and I would hope the people standing around otherwise doing nothing but watch siege get lobbed, also had some fun killing me.
———————————

Niims,

Going through a wall, around a wall, what ever.., the point is your by passing a completly fine wall that you shouldn’t be able to. and I will apologize if the entire server thinks i’m blaming them for this, i’m not judging the entire server i’m judging niims. If this was fine, then every class will have an ability that can shoot them up on land bypassing the walls entirely. Again, what your telling me is since you or the server can’t seem to put down our seige gear by normal means, means that would require some work put into it, you and maybe who knows how many other thieves can simply by pass the wall by your “ability” and suddenly take down our siege gear. So I remind you again, you aren’t telling me anything other than you need to use an exploit to win. Simple yes or no.

Darksavage,
SoS General,

Niim.9260:

If I had an organized group of thieves, or any classes, I would do other things far more productive. In this case I would have taken a ram to the underwater gate and punch it open for easy access by all so that after we ‘ravage the place’ you would be forced to continue to defend two fronts or withdraw to inner.

There is no underwater gate to the West keep of the Borderlands; only walls.

While i am having fun and enjoying being on SF this week, we really are trying to use legitimate tactics for the most part. We may have more population advantage, but really this server hasn’t even been this populated in WvW until recently and we’ve only been doing pretty average these past few weeks.

I am aware of the fact that there are some people who may be hacking or exploiting glitches, but don’t hold it against us. There are hackers and exploiters on every server, even AR and BP. We have seen guys from both sides inside walls preventing us from caping and more, so to say that the only reason we are winning is due to hacks is rather unfair. The only thing we can do at this moment is report those that are caught doing it and hope that Anet solves the problem quickly.

In the meantime, I hope to see you all on the battlefield.

Had alot of fun tonight in borlis pass borderlands and eternal. We decided to get a hit and run grp going. We were able to recap all of borlis pass before we switched to eternal. After green zerg took our borderlands back we tried again and finally clashed wit you guys at the bay keep for the orb. Alot of fun guys…btw great save on the orb

I have to admit, overall this has been a decent match and a good time, although I have noticed a few things. In the BL’s Sorrow’s does seem to do very well, stays tight and organized, and those are really good up and back battles, but in EB there is an incredible zerg mentality that was not present the first few days of the match. All I see in EB is a massive, to the point of ridiculous, zerg that just wanders around, not stopping or defending points. While it is impressive to see 40 people take a supply camp, we just wait the timer out and cap it before it hits zero just to edge out a couple extra points on the board. Not criticizing the tactic, because SF holds all of EB most of the time, but we take those back with 2 or 3 people because they are pretty much left unmanned. We took AR keep with a team of 4 because it wasn’t upgraded and no one was inside during NA prime time. We have held keeps and towers against the SF zerg for extremely long periods of time because they were upgraded and siege was set to defend, even push a decent sized group of around 20 back before an even larger force came, by that time we were running out of supply for repair, and we knew the 4 people holding the keep were not going to be able to counter the 30+ outside, but it was fun trying.
Hopefully SF gets some of the kinks worked out for their next match, because the server populations the next tier up are a bit larger and more consistent than they are facing here right now.

@Nokaru:
there are two wall panels you can bash open, should have been more clear sorry.

@godfather:
According to you I shouldn’t be able too, which is the root of the discussion. Who decides which ‘unintended’ actions are valid and perfectly acceptable and which are not? You think catapults and mesmer pets are perfectly fine, I do not. I think 1/4 (2) of the classes being able to get into those keeps using a skill they possess is perfectly fine, you do not. Your entire post is based on the belief that your view is somehow more important or more accurate then mine. That is not the case, imo.

When we set up siege up on the hill to take our your siege we must defend it. Over the course of the 4 hour battle we lost our siege multiple times due to being wiped or forced back. How is it any different for the defender, why can they not be expected to defend their siege? Keeping in mind this is the outer wall only, not the inner. Other games like DAoC had the ability by a bunch of classes to climb walls, I view this as a great contribution to the dynamics of WvW, specially for those players that prefer melee to plinking from range or using siege.

Given my actions did not even marginally contribute to a win, then I would say your question is silly.

1 siege golem + 4 quaggans + 1 hour = borlis’s garrison
That was just 2 of us that took it btw
Epics battles at DB tonight, had a blast.
In the end everyone went to sleep, but I gave you hell on stealthing from cannon to cannon :P and died a honorable death in battle!

just got garrison look a me :s godly!!!

hmmm lol…………………