Guild Wars 2

Thoughts, feelings, predictions of the endtimes of WvW?

I personally am very afraid of radical changes to the system that seems so perfect as it was. NPC intrusion that requires ZERO work to activate scares me ALOT. It’s intentions are noble but as we are already seeing 60+ enemies joining a map suddenly, their spawn tower to be abandoned before you even own it, and the loss of map control.

Without the map control that tower afforded your map is now forever wide up to striking. I guess now we will actually need to spawn camp with lines of ballistas.

Probably over reacting but I don’t look forward to what this event does. Maybe if it only worked with 15 or less people but then guild’s would just send in a small group to activate and then come right in.

I`ve just witnessed this debacle & my dead gods, does no one ever test this stuff?
Great, we`re second place thanks to the patch & losing loads.
Third place by a mere 1k points gets this event.
They hit camp, first tower. npcs are stupidly powered, cata` with Guardian bubbles?
Champion Dolyak inside the keep, before door is even down?
Champion npc that hits harder then npcs in PvE zones.
Gets laughably worse. Players left map, event npcs still keep attacking everything.
Then three players came back, those plus npcs, plus free cata, free arrow carts etc.. I can`t do sod all.

I don’t think it will work as intended, but we’ll see. ^^

I like the event, but worried about the “you need to stand in this circle for 20 seconds a few feet from the tower” to start the assault. Seems as if your outnumbered, you’d get wiped there easily.

Fishbait.6723:

I`ve just witnessed this debacle & my dead gods, does no one ever test this stuff?
Great, we`re second place thanks to the patch & losing loads.
Third place by a mere 1k points gets this event.
They hit camp, first tower. npcs are stupidly powered, cata` with Guardian bubbles?
Champion Dolyak inside the keep, before door is even down?
Champion npc that hits harder then npcs in PvE zones.
Gets laughably worse. Players left map, event npcs still keep attacking everything.
Then three players came back, those plus npcs, plus free cata, free arrow carts etc.. I can`t do sod all.

This sounds… hilarious.

I just watched a simultaneous breakout from both attacking teams in our borderlands just now and wow. On the west spawn, we were hit by 3 golems, 2 catapults (bubbled), 2 arrow carts and a ballista. They got the gate down and we had to fight with a zerg in the inner to down the yak and the champion (which took ages). A minute later, the Champion was back and we decided that it was not in our interests to even bother holding a southern tower as a defender. Its just a manpower sink.

On the eastern spawn we got golem rushed on the south gate of east keep right off the bat. We saved East Keep at inner but lost West Keep to the west spawn attacker.

This is…lol.

Tuco.2419:

Fishbait.6723:

I`ve just witnessed this debacle & my dead gods, does no one ever test this stuff?
Great, we`re second place thanks to the patch & losing loads.
Third place by a mere 1k points gets this event.
They hit camp, first tower. npcs are stupidly powered, cata` with Guardian bubbles?
Champion Dolyak inside the keep, before door is even down?
Champion npc that hits harder then npcs in PvE zones.
Gets laughably worse. Players left map, event npcs still keep attacking everything.
Then three players came back, those plus npcs, plus free cata, free arrow carts etc.. I can`t do sod all.

This sounds… hilarious.

Got footage, will upload soon as calmed down ;p
NOW I know why they put Alt F4 thing in. Because of this kitten thing ;p

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Coming-Soon-To-WvW-updated-12-14/972134

I think they try to kill www this on purpose, to force ppl to go for spvp and tpvp and Anet push for eSports, thats where the money is

Anet keep it up… everything you said so far fas a lie, horisontal progression my kitten www orientated my kitten /p>

Just watched a breakout from the walls of Bluebriar. Three arrow carts on defense, 10 or so defending, 10 or so attackers. No defensive upgrades on the keep, we were able to wipe out most of the siege before it was built simply by dropping arrow barrages on it. Once the bubbles went up, most of the siege operators either ran off or died where they stood. The siege commander, however, is a tank. He was standing long after we’d run the Crystal Desert Invaders off.

All in all, I think the breakout events aren’t going to be a huge threat; they’re simply a force multiplier. The firepower a breakout brings to bear is only going to be threatening when there aren’t many people on your map and you haven’t done your defensive preparation. With defensive siege weaponry manned on the walls, I see little reason to fear a small group utilizing the breakout mechanic, save if your defenses are undermanned.

With a coordinated group (like a WvW guild using the breakout), this might be a lot more problematic, and would require faster defensive response times from the host server’s zerg. On an unupgraded gate, it’s quite possible the defenders won’t make it there before the attackers are in the Lord’s room. Again, if they’ve put in the grunt work to get their towers upgraded (posting sentries, etc), the breakout isn’t nearly as threatening.

Just used the breakout event to get back a foothold in Eternal. I think it works quite well, it’s suppose to be heavily favouring the underdog. If you could just zerg in the kill the event in a minute, what use would it be?

Because of this event, a few more people came in to Eternal to reclaim things and it could spark things off. Without the event, you can kiss the night goodbye while you roam an empty map.

I don’t know if it was intended but during a break-out event a dolyak got inside the tower and started damaging siege. After the tower was taken by a large group buffed by the tank of a champion, we took it back about 15 minutes later so it didn’t really impact the tide of the battle at that particular map in any way.

I’m really not sure if it should be included for the invaders of a borderland though.

My personal thoughts, if a server can’t hold their own, they can’t hold their own, they shouldn’t get handicap help. This isn’t a child’s game.

So how long till we see people exploiting this?
snickers

I can’t wait to get home and see this in action.

@Hartman
Yes handicap sucks, but servers like mine who have well defined population high(if you want to call it that) and lows sort of need this. Other wise in 1 nite we get steamrolled and do not have the man power to get out of our own re-spawn. Much less fight off 30+ players with our 10 players and all sorts of siege weapons the other server is killing us with.

My server is always outnumbered, but nothing we can do about it.

Ask the lower tier servers how they have enjoyed playing non stop zerg.

The answer seems clear, considering most WvW guilds transferred to the higher tiers for actual online gaming tactics, strategy, and fun play.

ZERGout, err… I mean breakout should be used on Eternal only, if at all. At least that way 3 of the maps will be worth a kitten to play on still.

Just my opinion.

Well if it rallied 60 people onto the map then it served its purpose?
They don’t want one side to have total control, I think map control doesn’t mean what you think it means. Map control is owning the higher % of objectives not total lock out.

It should be activated when there is some huge gap between scores.
Say 25k (miniscule) or 50k+

Letting this start when they can have as little as 800 points (that`s what we got hit by) or even possibly one point, is just stupid.

Be a while until NPC Wars 2 is uploaded.
I`m downloading Aion again at same time lol

Edit: Just had a thought (ouch)
Costs of upgrades, are these being lowered or removed?
Players pay for these to protect places from other players, not OP guards etc

It’s given us more of a reason to camp the last camp on SOS. Were having a blast.

Way to make NPCs totally overshadow players. Anet, get your kitten together.

Make the game pvp instead of PvA and you would have players breaking out.

Urrid.4593:

Way to make NPCs totally overshadow players. Anet, get your kitten together.

when i posted this before the patch, everybody shouted at me.

So far from what I can tell the biggest change this makes is it makes Dreadfall Bay extremely hard to defend from Blue. Blue get their keep handed to them, then they take the nearby supply and Treb Dreadfall relentlessly from it. I think they need to do something like raise the mountains between them.

Commanders should attack towers only you have outmanned buff. Now people just port from border to border and start event, and defenders should spend a lot of time to kill this npc. Or second way – make a buff, wich makes hp of commander depending from surrounded allies (for ex. 500k base hp, and 100k for each alive ally, up to 25 stacks)

Dual.8953:

So far from what I can tell the biggest change this makes is it makes Dreadfall Bay extremely hard to defend from Blue. Blue get their keep handed to them, then they take the nearby supply and Treb Dreadfall relentlessly from it. I think they need to do something like raise the mountains between them.

You know this is and has always been the case right? The bays have always been kitten for defense on the outer perimeter because they are low ground to EVERYTHING on the map. This isn’t going to change anything and all teams have the same advantage coffered by the foothold provided by breakouts because everyone has the same borderlands.

What this does change is the fact that heavily contested or lopsided maps now offer a way for teams, guilds, and servers to break out of either the citadel or their invader’s spawn point.

Breakout events are horrible. “Attackers, get your first tower free (as soon as you can get 10 people to hang around your spawn)!”

But wait – 10 people is not nearly enough to hold that tower against a defender-server force that outmans you. So as soon as the event is over and everything’s settled down, the home server will just flip the tower again. All this really does is remove a sense of accomplishment from gaining your foothold or securing your home map, and make capturing that tower feel pointless more of the time.

From either side – attacker or defender – I don’t want to play ping-pong with the towers nearest the attacker spawns. I’m fine with having a bit of a steep mountain to climb, metaphorically, to gather up enough competent people in that borderland to take and hold the tower. That’s the way it should be. The events are just a bad joke.

Just experienced the event, we were out manned on the map and by the end of the event had 50 or so ready to push bay. I would say it served its purpose, it brought people into a map where we were wiped off of. Now if our opponent had a ballista and another arrow cart we probably wouldn’t have fared as well. For now, I like it and I am sure it will be tweaked as we all experience it more.

Vena.8436:

Dual.8953:

So far from what I can tell the biggest change this makes is it makes Dreadfall Bay extremely hard to defend from Blue. Blue get their keep handed to them, then they take the nearby supply and Treb Dreadfall relentlessly from it. I think they need to do something like raise the mountains between them.

You know this is and has always been the case right? The bays have always been kitten for defense on the outer perimeter because they are low ground to EVERYTHING on the map. This isn’t going to change anything and all teams have the same advantage coffered by the foothold provided by breakouts because everyone has the same borderlands.

What this does change is the fact that heavily contested or lopsided maps now offer a way for teams, guilds, and servers to break out of either the citadel or their invader’s spawn point.

Yeah, I wasn’t really saying it was a bad thing. Just a bit different. I wish the commander’s on my server would have focused more on taking Shadaran instead of letting Red at it. Blue’s being relentless and I’d like if we’d have another strong fallback if we lose Garrison. Ah well, the week’s still young, we’ll probably dig in our heels soon enough.

So just witnessed my first breakout event on the defensive side. We had some arrow carts up and took a bit of pushing after the shields went down but we took them with our gate left out about half. So we went to go grab our supply that they had taken to repair the gate only to return and find that they had another one coming before we could even repair. I could see being given one every hour or so but one not even 5 minutes after the other, there is no possible way to defend a tower to that kind of pounding over and over.

after getting to watch the entire thing from start to finish, it’s good in theory but needs some tweaks. the invulnerable bubbles around the seige needs to go. if a group can’t protect all of the free seige that’s dropped by superman, then they don’t deserve to have a tower. and they certainly won’t be able to defend it once superman flies off to the next borderland.

and yes, i’m referring to the NPC commander as superman from now on. he has an insane amount of HP/defense, is loaded with buffs, does an absurd amount of damage, and resets instantaneously. seriously. we had 10-15 in the tower with 4 arrow carts constantly firing on him from the lord’s room in redlake. we got him down to 5%, and during the time it took him to walk through the gate, he reset.

now, i’m all for helping the downtrodden out, but this is a bit overboard. give a man a fish, he eats for a day. teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. what we have now is deus ex machina. any sense of accomplishment is stripped away from the attackers. the futility of the situation sets in for the defenders. random zerging and territory trading is cemented as the most effective strategy. all thoughts of defense get chucked out the window. players collectively /facepalm.

the breakout event should provide a possibility for a group to take a tower. not have superman crap out a bunch of invulnerable siege and spoon feed it to them.

Victim.3016:

Well if it rallied 60 people onto the map then it served its purpose?

If 60 can muster why do they require an NPC event?

Victim.3016:

They don’t want one side to have total control, I think map control doesn’t mean what you think it means. Map control is owning the higher % of objectives not total lock out.

WvW is designed to not be balanced, therefore complete control of a map is completely acceptable.

All this will do is encourage zerging. I’m usually careful to put ideas across in a constructive way, but this is so diabolically incompetent I can’t be bothered.

Worst. Idea. To. Date.

[Edit: but this is so diabolically incompetent I can’t be bothered <- “this” refers to the Breakout event itself]

The breakout is hardly unstoppable. I’ve already witnessed it get stomped before the Champion even made it to the tower and could initiate the siege.

The bubbles also don’t last long enough to destroy either a gate or a wall unless several additional siege are dropped by players.

Fishbait.6723:

It should be activated when there is some huge gap between scores.
Say 25k (miniscule) or 50k+

Letting this start when they can have as little as 800 points (that`s what we got hit by) or even possibly one point, is just stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxbzFcV5r0

Be a while until NPC Wars 2 is uploaded.
I`m downloading Aion again at same time lol

Edit: Just had a thought (ouch)
Costs of upgrades, are these being lowered or removed?
Players pay for these to protect places from other players, not OP guards etc

Only thing I got from that video is that you couldn’t solo a champion and you had a massive lack of defenders?

Visiroth.5914:

The breakout is hardly unstoppable. I’ve already witnessed it get stomped before the Champion even made it to the tower and could initiate the siege.

The bubbles also don’t last long enough to destroy either a gate or a wall unless several additional siege are dropped by players.

With defenders = can stop
Without defenders = no can stop

Question: if there are no defenders why do the “weak” attackers need an NPC help?

I’ve played all tiers/brackets of WvW from bottom to top. A common scenario is the early morning golem zerg. A team with no installations in a zone can bring in as many as they like for a zerg (eg. 80+) with golems (eg. 8+) According to the Breakout criteria they need assistance as they have no installations in the zone. Yet they’re capable of producing a force as outlined. Breakout event is a total nonsense.

[Edit: The point here is that early morning, with a zone controlled by your team has very little activity on it. It takes some serious dedication to scout an empty zone waiting for the red dots to appear, for hours on end. So when the red dots do appear, is extremely likely that there’ll be little opposition.]

As someone mentioned in an earlier post: if a server cannot compete against their opponents then they cannot compete against their opponents. The end. Attempts to compensate with stunts like this cannot work.

Furry Fury.9036:

With defenders = can stop
Without defenders = no can stop

Question: if there are no defenders why do the “weak” attackers need an NPC help?

Who really cares then? You get an extra bit of support in exchange for waiting 1 minute then following a slow NPC to the tower, then standing in a control point to get the siege. You also need at least 10 people instead of just 8 who could build 2 rams and take a tower faster anyway? I don’t see what the big fuss is.

Oh, and you get full supply in the tower after taking it so you have a better chance of defending the tower than you ever did without the event.

It’s pretty darn useful. Just logged onto my server to find that one of the opposing servers had night capped everything in our borderlands. There was no commander present and only a handfall of people available at our spawn point. We managed to scrape together 10 people and took back a tower. It provides a well needed boost when the odds are stacked against your server. It also means that scattered groups have a rallying call and don’t just spend their time capping supply camps and sentinels.

Although, when can a server no longer use breakout events? We took back a tower with a breakout event, then took back the other tower and then the garrison on our own, but the breakout commanders still appear to be usable.

I have to say that as soon as an actual player commander came online and started rallying players, we forgot all about the breakout events.

It’s worth ‘caring’ for no other reason than it encourages zerging.

If the idea is to downplay the Breakout event’s effectiveness by saying ‘a bit of extra support’ then clearly the impact is inconsequential so it may as well be removed, right? Or it is significant. Which is it?

It’s not a big deal. It basically helps one side take a tower, that’s it. That jerk NPC commander didn’t even stick around long enough to build some defensive siege or defend. I suspect that in most cases the break out event is going to end just like ours did tonight. http://youtu.be/AvIBHjy32qc

Either way, it’s somewhat amusing and has no net effect on balance, so why kitten about it?

Lensar.4920:

Either way, it’s somewhat amusing and has no net effect on balance, so why kitten about it?

Because people on this forum whine more than my 2 year old.

It does make for some entertaining reading, though

I’m downplaying it when used with a zerg. If the attackers for some reason have an overwhelming majority then the NPC doesn’t help them much because they have numbers anyway.

IMO, if 60 attackers got pushed completely off the map by defenders (and defenders stay there camping them), then yes, they do need help. This also works on the home borderlands and we can switch attackers with defenders.

And where it helps a lot is with smaller groups. Before breakout if the tower was lightly manned and sieged up your option was basically to go to another map and join the zerg, or harass supply camps only. Now there are more options.

Simonoly.4352:

Although, when can a server no longer use breakout events? We took back a tower with a breakout event, then took back the other tower and then the garrison on our own, but the breakout commanders still appear to be usable.

It appears that there is a bug with the breakout event, where the #3 server (red bottom right) on the #1 server BL (green) will finish the breakout event but the NPC will appear in town again and can charge the tower despite it still being under your control still. This will only happen once, unless the tower is flipped and you retake it. Was hoping to wipe out an enemy super zerg when we saw the NPC back in spawn, but they wiped him instead =(

It’s odd to me that some people seem to be against more fighting in WvW. Seems like they’d just rather the enemy stayed off their BL and it was a ghost town. I don’t really get it, but to each their own I guess.

Hartman.4267:

My personal thoughts, if a server can’t hold their own, they can’t hold their own, they shouldn’t get handicap help. This isn’t a child’s game.

I don’t think the event has really changed much of anything. On my server it always seemed a detriment to hold the whole map anyway because everyone just left it, leaving the first tower very easy to take with a coordinated strike force even without NPC’s.

So with or without this event, the key to holding your territory still remains having lots of players willing to suffer boredom and stay down in a keep, or general map area where nothing is going on for sometimes hours on end.

It seems all this is really accomplishing is in effect, moving a losing team’s starting base from the spawn point to the first tower, for a brief temporary time until the tower is captured. Then it all repeats all over. But I guess Anet thinks its much more encouraging for a dominated side to fight out of an actual holding than just a demeaning invulnerable zone where the feeling of being farmed is much greater since you have to be the attacker running out into the open, while the breakout event lets you begin as the defender if you successfully pull it off.

Lensar.4920:

It’s not a big deal. It basically helps one side take a tower, that’s it. That jerk NPC commander didn’t even stick around long enough to build some defensive siege or defend. I suspect that in most cases the break out event is going to end just like ours did tonight. http://youtu.be/AvIBHjy32qc

Either way, it’s somewhat amusing and has no net effect on balance, so why kitten about it?

Firstly, I’d already seen the vid and love the comment in chat regarding ‘typical Blackgate Commander flipping but not defending’. I think we’d agree that ‘Blackgate’ can be replaced by any server name. (Note: typical, not all.)

I play wuvwuv to PvP, as in: try different strategies against my opponents and have them come back with their strategies. Why am I fighting an NPC now? (Please don’t go down the path I saw in another thread comparing the NPC Commander a raptor. I really would laugh if a raptor tried to take a tower)

I understand the frustration of undermanned servers not being able to, well, breakout. If the players on those servers are playing GW2 for WvW they can transfer to a WvW-centric server. If they’re PvE players they probably don’t feel the frustration too much.

So it comes back to: if it’s not a big deal, why is it there? Remove it. Let players use their own skill to win over their opponents. If it’s a lack of manpower issue and you want wuvwuv, transfer.

Anyways, enough of this, got me some RL booked in.

Have fun all.

@Visiroth – Ah that makes sense. And I agree, more fighting is always better. At the end of the day it’s the battles we wage not the points we accrue that draws us to Wv3.

Furry Fury.9036:

I understand the frustration of undermanned servers not being able to, well, breakout. If the players on those servers are playing GW2 for WvW they can transfer to a WvW-centric server. If they’re PvE players they probably don’t feel the frustration too much.

Even in top tier servers not all maps have a presence or the numbers necessary to breakout at all times. Rarely do we ever have a presence on all 4 maps. Usually it is only on 2 BL + EB, sometimes just 1 BL + EB. Even more rarely we are down to a single map.

A few major things I’ve noticed:

- The commander himself should get nerfed a bit, at least in regards to damage dealt.

- The event shouldn’t start for at least 30-60 minutes after they lost their last tower, i.e. filled the criteria to start a breakout event.

- The event shouldn’t restart for at least 30-60 minutes after it is defeated by the enemy borderlands.

!THIS EVENT IS USELESS AND COMPLETELY POINTLESS!

If a World does this event that’ll cause the other world to do the event then the other world to do the same. Essentially all that happens is that you basically traded towers and the scores remain the same.

Uhh… what? How’s that helping anything?

I’m glad that ANet is working on developing content for WvWvW, but there’s no point to this addition to the game.

Iove.3902:

!THIS EVENT IS USELESS AND COMPLETELY POINTLESS!

If a World does this event that’ll cause the other world to do the event then the other world to do the same. Essentially all that happens is that you basically traded towers and the scores remain the same.

Uhh… what? How’s that helping anything?

I’m glad that ANet is working on developing content for WvWvW, but there’s no point to this addition to the game.

You are welcome to your point of view however I had about 7 hours of WvW since reset and enjoyed the change immensely. It is not perfect but definitely created more dynamics and people moved maps more often and the dozen or so with me agreed.

Utter bullcrap. Thats how i feel about this change.

It is now not worth it to cap the southern towers. Always leave your enemy 1 thing, because they basicly get a free pass in taking the tower back anyway. Godlike champions, free and indestructable siege.
The champ spanks the whole tower on his own. You just need 10ppl to start the event and thats about it.

Get this damn pve out of wvw!

I thought the break-out event only occurs if the faction in question has no points on the map? Does the NPC start zerging around the entire map or does he just help take the first tower? If bandwagoners are moaning about a single tower then just… lol.

If he starts owning up everything on the map then yeah, that’s a bit BS.

Freohr.7905:

I thought the break-out event only occurs if the faction in question has no points on the map? Does the NPC start zerging around the entire map or does he just help take the first tower? If bandwagoners are moaning about a single tower then just… lol.

If he starts owning up everything on the map then yeah, that’s a bit BS.

Just 1 tower (and a supply camp, I think…I’ve only seen the event once and it was already at the tower). After the tower, the NPCs despawn.

This just gave me a reason to go try out Planetside 2. Thanks! =cD Lowest populated server in the tier gets screwed even more by these events even though it was meant to help. They will never be able to push anyone out of their BL. Invading servers that actually know what their doing and have manpower will use this opportunity to cap 2 or 3 other POI during the event because the smaller server is spread too thin or have to focus on only 1 objective. That champ and dolyak are OP as kittens, kitties and tigers. See ya guys in a week…unless this is still in game by then.