Break out event

Break out event

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Posted by: Visiroth.5914

Visiroth.5914

Breakout events should not be necessary in wvw as most servers should be in a tier which represents their strengths or weaknesses.

Look at the matchup history for WvW, this is not the case for many, many matches. In theory, your tier should be somewhat balanced. But even if this were always true, it is only true for aggregate performance. At any particular slice of time the match may be imbalanced and a server may be in need of breakout.

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Posted by: Sylosi.6503

Sylosi.6503

New tactic, just don’t attack the last tower, shame this is completely kitten at the top tiers or even the middle tiers. Oh wait at any competitive tier it is a pile of kitten.

If your server is not competitive in wvw i’m sorry i really feel for you, but did wvw really need a new pve event to provide absolutely no solution to your tiers performance? Do you enjoy your tower,? Does it make you comfortable? Do you feel safe chilling out in there? Does those extra few points won by a pve champion make you feel proud?

What competitve tiers are these? Most matches were over by yesterday, several before that, which is pretty typical of the EU tiers, there is nothing competitve in the slighest, whoever has the most coverage in a tier wins, that is it.

Breakout is fine, spawn camping is lame, but then the fact so many times maps have got to the spawn camping situation just says it all about how competitve WvW is.

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Posted by: Wolbryne.4037

Wolbryne.4037

New tactic, just don’t attack the last tower, shame this is completely kitten at the top tiers or even the middle tiers. Oh wait at any competitive tier it is a pile of kitten.

If your server is not competitive in wvw i’m sorry i really feel for you, but did wvw really need a new pve event to provide absolutely no solution to your tiers performance? Do you enjoy your tower,? Does it make you comfortable? Do you feel safe chilling out in there? Does those extra few points won by a pve champion make you feel proud?

What competitve tiers are these? Most matches were over by yesterday, several before that, which is pretty typical of the EU tiers, there is nothing competitve in the slighest, whoever has the most coverage in a tier wins, that is it.

Breakout is fine, spawn camping is lame, but then the fact so many times maps have got to the spawn camping situation just says it all about how competitve WvW is.

tier 2.
arborstone has already won because they have huge imba-zergs all day and all night. but the fight for second place is still going strong and will probably keep going until the very last minute.

Pret Orian / Pretorían
IRON
“All war is deception.” – General Sun Tzu

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Posted by: Rhyis.7058

Rhyis.7058

I haven’t been part of a blow out match up since orbs were removed.

Break out event

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Posted by: Soultaken.6873

Soultaken.6873

The idea behind this event is flawed in my opinion – it is to prevent servers from locking their own borderlands since after the removal of the orbs, this is the most logical strategy for the more organized servers. Basically this event treats the symptom but not the root of the problem.

Now let’s look at the practical problems the event causes:

1. Numerous times have we (T2) observed 50 – 60 enemy players border hop, and activate the event, instantly receiving 500 – 600 resource, taking the spawn tower and pumping the resource into 5 trebushes to bombard the nearby keep. At this point the proposed solution of ‘let them have the spawn tower’ that some people in this thread keep mentioning somehow doesn’t seem so viable. Hence we go and take the tower by a surprise attack to get rid of the trebs. Ten minutes later a new event spawns with new 500 – 600 resources and the trebs are back. It goes on and on while all that time our enemy didn’t even feel the need to take and hold a second resource camp – just the one closest to the spawn.
After a whole evening of repetition we came up with a strategy (SPOILER: Advanced WvW tactic ahead) to counter this – we broke the tower wall, destroy the trebs and left the tower uncapped. We never saw 5 trebs at once on that tower anymore for the rest of the night. Now if this is the way WvW should be played by design I’m just speechless…

2. Groups of enemy players equal to our number under an invulnerability field (or so close that they can effortlessly hide under it) has got to be the next best thing in WvW.

3. No report option for the exploiting NPC commanders and dolyaks behind tower doors is an issues since those need to be banned.

Seeing that I only looked at the event from the point where it gets exploited by a seasoned enemy force, let us observe the benefits it provides to the truly outmanned players that would strive to retake their spawn against a vastly superior force:

1. If the NPC commander dies before he reaches the spawn tower the event ends and since the NPC commander always takes the same exit of the spawn area this escalates the spawn camping to a whole new level where it is actually a requirement (another WvW pro tip). Instead of going to another border where they can do something meaningful now the forces that own the map are intentionally forced to stay even if there is no immediate threat.

2. Sorry but if you expected more benefits then you didn’t read 1. carefully enough – go do it, there’s a pro tip there, that can grant an unlimited supply of boredom to your winning forces.

In conclusion – reinstate the orbs in some manner and get rid of this flawed solution to a problem that should never have existed if they were in.

P.S. This post was designed while listening to the jokes of my bored comrades on TS during a prolonged wait for a an invulnerable siege weapon to get destroyable several minutes after the rest were already down.

Desolation – [IRON]
The Iron Triangle
Fate Challenger – Human Warrior 80

Break out event

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

The thing is, it does NOT help the losing server, since the winning server still gets this event on their respective maps. It would be a fine mechanic if it happened much less often, and only happened to the losing server.

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Posted by: Offski.4897

Offski.4897

Agreed the new event is flawed it messes up competitive matches and does not help outmanned servers.

There is one simple solution, give outmanned players a buff similar to the orbs or slightly stronger. This will immediately lead to far closer contests.

Everyone suggested this when discussing the issues with the orbs but Anet does not listen or maybe did not even ask our thoughts in the first place.

Offski
Necromancer – Sanctum of Rall[IRON]
http://www.iron-gaming.com/

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

The thing is, it does NOT help the losing server, since the winning server still gets this event on their respective maps. It would be a fine mechanic if it happened much less often, and only happened to the losing server.

I agree in here to some point, and its already for the loosing server “on that map”, but if you dont have manpower to take a castle/tower or wathever it is, i would say its becouse you dont deserve it or dont have the resources to win that point.

here goes an idea….

If you hate that much the “Super Charr” and his Doylak Dynamite.
Let them conquer the dammn castle, prepare some rams for fast recovering the stolen areas, re-conquer what they conquered and leave 1 hostile castle to avoid the event again, anyway you can always recover what you lost

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Sylosi.6503

Sylosi.6503

tier 2.
arborstone has already won because they have huge imba-zergs all day and all night. but the fight for second place is still going strong and will probably keep going until the very last minute.

If they’ve already won inside half the duration of the match-up, it isn’t competitve, the very fact teams are wiped from a map enough for them to consider bringing in a solution in the first place, shows just how uncompetive most WvW matches are. (At least on the EU)

(edited by Sylosi.6503)

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Posted by: Syeria.4812

Syeria.4812

Breakouts are not intended to “even out unbalanced matchups.”

They never have been intended that way, and will never be intended that way.

The point of breakouts is twofold: To help servers gain a foothold in a dominated map (thus actually giving them a reason to play) and to move the meta-game back to a situation where servers do more than occupy their own BL and EB.

The idea is to get all four maps involved in serious play. Since the removal of orbs, there has been no real reason to keep a sizable force in an opponent’s BL, except as an occasional force diverting maneuver. Breakouts make it easier to gain a foothold in any unoccupied map, which encourages players to actually play on that map.

Breakout events have absolutely nothing to do with matchup balancing.

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Posted by: Rhyis.7058

Rhyis.7058

Breakouts are not intended to “even out unbalanced matchups.”

They never have been intended that way, and will never be intended that way.

The point of breakouts is twofold: To help servers gain a foothold in a dominated map (thus actually giving them a reason to play) and to move the meta-game back to a situation where servers do more than occupy their own BL and EB.

The idea is to get all four maps involved in serious play. Since the removal of orbs, there has been no real reason to keep a sizable force in an opponent’s BL, except as an occasional force diverting maneuver. Breakouts make it easier to gain a foothold in any unoccupied map, which encourages players to actually play on that map.

Breakout events have absolutely nothing to do with matchup balancing.

Except the reality of the situation is that all it does it gets people to take that one tower and leave. And really, taking SE tower does not help you get a foothold on the map at all since it can be trebbed 24/7 while completely untouchable in east keep.

So basically instead of keeping your entire borderland you lose the 2 bottom towers, but you gain 2 towers in the other borderlands… So literally nothing changed except a PvD circle jerk.

(edited by Rhyis.7058)

Break out event

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Posted by: Syeria.4812

Syeria.4812

Breakouts are not intended to “even out unbalanced matchups.”

They never have been intended that way, and will never be intended that way.

The point of breakouts is twofold: To help servers gain a foothold in a dominated map (thus actually giving them a reason to play) and to move the meta-game back to a situation where servers do more than occupy their own BL and EB.

The idea is to get all four maps involved in serious play. Since the removal of orbs, there has been no real reason to keep a sizable force in an opponent’s BL, except as an occasional force diverting maneuver. Breakouts make it easier to gain a foothold in any unoccupied map, which encourages players to actually play on that map.

Breakout events have absolutely nothing to do with matchup balancing.

Except the reality of the situation is that all it does it gets people to take that one tower and leave. And really, taking SE tower does not help you get a foothold on the map at all since it can be trebbed 24/7 while completely untouchable in east keep.

So basically instead of keeping your entire borderland you lose the 2 bottom towers, but you gain 2 towers in the other borderlands… So literally nothing changed except a PvD circle jerk.

If you actually believe that (and maybe that’s the case in your matchup, but it’s certainly not the case everywhere) then feel free to argue that. Others will probably agree and disagree, and you can have a reasonable discussion.

The issue is, almost no one is making that point, or arguing that. Instead, the complaints are almost exclusively “balancing matchups with NPCs is bad,” and “break out events don’t even help the losing team!” Those aren’t valid complaints because they have absolutely nothing to do with the actual purpose of the events.

Break out event

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Posted by: Rhyis.7058

Rhyis.7058

What the designers intended is irrelevant when faced with the reality of what’s actually happening in game. The only thing I’ve seen from this event is it actually helps the winning servers because they have the numbers to take advantage of this extra bonus. The losing sides however get their already low numbers in eternal and home borderlands siphoned into the other two borderlands, making defending that much more difficult. As the event doesn’t magically add to your total wvw population, it shifts the numbers from one map to another.

I’m telling you, within 2 weeks everybody will hate this thing. Everybody. You simply haven’t fully thought out the consequences of what these break out events are doing yet. But eventually you’ll see it first hand.

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Posted by: Syeria.4812

Syeria.4812

What the designers intended is irrelevant when faced with the reality of what’s actually happening in game.

Let me stop you right there. That’s where you’re not understanding the discussion at all. The arguments I’ve seen leveled against breakouts all follow this form:

Breakout events are bad because they don’t help the losing team.

or

Breakout events are bad because balancing matchups with NPCs is a bad idea.

or

Breakout events are bad because we can no longer hold every tower on a map.

The first two arguments hinge upon the concept of the because statement. If balancing matchups is not the intent of breakout events, then the fact that they fail to balance matchups is irrelevant. A comparable argument would be:

Making sure your car’s brakes work correctly is a waste of time because it won’t make you less likely to be rear-ended.

Obviously making sure your brakes work correctly is something you might want to do because it might prevent you from hitting someone else. The fact that it’s not going to stop you from being rear-ended doesn’t matter because that’s not why you’re checking your brakes!

The last of the three examples is actually the full intent. Anet doesn’t want servers completely locking down a map with no recourse for the locked out team. The fact that servers are no longer able to do it is actually a good thing.

The reality is, breakout events are intended to spread forces amongst all the maps, and to give servers a starting point if they choose to press that advantage. If you don’t believe they’re effective, or that they’re having other negative effects upon the meta, feel free to argue that. Make all the posts or threads you want to bring that to Anet’s attention. But you have to keep it in context, because the arguments people have been using don’t have any relevance at all to the conversation.

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Posted by: Rhyis.7058

Rhyis.7058

I like how this dude thinks he gets to determine what the subject matter of this discussion is.

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Posted by: Syeria.4812

Syeria.4812

I like how this dude thinks he gets to determine what the subject matter of this discussion is.

You’ve failed to make a single argument as to why breakouts are bad.

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Posted by: Draygo.9473

Draygo.9473

I just think they need to be tweaked.

Dont give free supply out to the attackers, instead have the champion fully build siege instead of players having to ‘finish’ the build. the 100 free supply into the tower is good though, the potential of an attacker of getting 2-3 trebs or 2-3 golems off the bat isnt so good.

Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]

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Posted by: Draygo.9473

Draygo.9473

Oh there also seems to be a bug with the event. If the commander is there asking for reinforcements and you take a different tower before activating him.

You can still activate him.

Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]

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Posted by: graverr.6473

graverr.6473

Breakout event on borderlands is downright silly,also it should happen once every 6 hours or so,not non stop.It is making defending impossible against 2 invader servers at once.Especially if your server can only afford to populate 1 borderland.-

I mean a mechanic that makes the defender already outnumbered 2to 1 in their own borderland should not get any help from even more npcs lol.This is a really bad ideea from Anet imo.

Mini Somales -Seven Instincts- [siN]

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Posted by: zortek.9607

zortek.9607

I like how this dude thinks he gets to determine what the subject matter of this discussion is.

You’ve failed to make a single argument as to why breakouts are bad.

^^^ qft. Attacking the messenger is the last best hope for hate mongers.

Thus far, arguments against breakouts present nothing other than speculation and hyperbole. The myopic rhetoric serves no purpose other than to act as a gravitational beacon around which the woeful can commiserate. The fear, uncertainty, and doubt is fueled strictly by willful ignorance.

Even among the most ardent supporters, I’ve yet to hear anyone reject the notion that there may be room for improvement.

But this all or nothing, love it or hate it kitty-kitten kittening is kitten kitty-kitty kitten.

Even the kittens are thinking the FUD argument is kittened up.

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Posted by: Dracula.1709

Dracula.1709

Breakout needs to go. Bad idea just like Orbs.