Guild Wars 2

It’s basically only people in squad can see tag.

Some guilds like to run only with their own people and dont want pugs. But by not tagging up they lost some ability like Lt. or using markers.

This also will make a harder job for tag watching.

ANet has already said no as it doesn’t foster inclusiveness so they will not do it. I tend to agree.

I have to agree with Ni In. You can set your squad to where the squad leader can invite only. Or once you get your members in, set it to no one can join. As a Pug myself, I see a group, I tend to follow but not engage.

Have a person who is not leading create squad and set a couple lieutenants. Use a raid marker instead of a tag and have the raid leader quit raid and rejoin

neven.3785:

Have a person who is not leading create squad and set a couple lieutenants. Use a raid marker instead of a tag and have the raid leader quit raid and rejoin

Lieutenants and squad markers disappear when tag does.

Ni In.6578:

ANet has already said no as it doesn’t foster inclusiveness so they will not do it. I tend to agree.

I don’t think inclusiveness matters at this point in the game. Guilds that want to raid semi-closed and don’t mind pugs following will run a visible tag. Guilds that don’t want pugs just following behind, running into watchtower/sentry range, screwing up stealth engages, screwing up enemy downs by being rallybots, screwing up the guild group by literally being Epi Bait, and all that jazz.

There are disadvantages to running closed and invisible too, you know. You’ll find it harder to recruit. Other tags on the map will have a htarder time coming to help you (since they can’t see your tag either). You can’t fluff up your numbers with pugs.

And if you really want to follow that guild group and run with them, join the guild. Inclusiveness isn’t the fault of guild groups or whatever, it’s the fault of pugs who don’t care enough.

Sinfullysweet.4517:

I have to agree with Ni In. You can set your squad to where the squad leader can invite only. Or once you get your members in, set it to no one can join. As a Pug myself, I see a group, I tend to follow but not engage.

Sure, you don’t engage, and a lot of people are glad to hear that. Other times, 90% of the pugs I see basically tail after the group, then once we’ve pushed in and generated 3-4 downs, they run in and drop instantly and rally half those downs. God knows why…

Namer, my point was ANet disagrees with that stance and wants to see WvW commanders/guilds be inclusive. I do get your point about pugs doing something you don’t want (going through a door, revealing yourself at the top of the stairs, etc.), but you’ll never stop that in all cases regardless of circumstances.

Heck, maybe they don’t even know English to follow /say chat directions.

Do what neven suggested, then target the leader if needed. Most groups running tagless are organized enough to follow someone without a marker though.

coro.3176:

Do what neven suggested, then target the leader if needed. Most groups running tagless are organized enough to follow someone without a marker though.

this doesnt work at all. the way most guild groups play today is by using squad markers and targets. putting a target on your drivers head only hurts your groups capability to play properly.

having a squad only visible tag would be a lot more beneficial. the game is boring running a tag and out numbering other groups. and boring having enough people to fight another group and then not being able to because you cant target things properly. voice comms only get you so far.

if people want a guild group to tag up so they can follow them, then why dont they join the guild? they choose by choice not to join a guild and it just hurts group play of those who do by having them follow blindly.

Closed squad is already implemented, and further two more options would achieve what is asked here:

1. Hide this tag from everyone, except own guild members
2. Add a special frame, outline (star, circle, something) that would identify it as “guild running in private raid”

also in both cases maybe a restrict option in tag settings with “freely allow joining by own guild members”

Currently we have to explain that the tag is running privately – option 2 ^ would inform about this at a glance. We already can close the tag, and kick anyone not wanted, so “inclusiveness” is not applicable anyway – but if anyone really want to be included, that person should join the guild, when they are recruiting (if you are good, almost all guilds will want you, and if not, you aren’t good enough yet)

Don’t want inclusiveness? If thats the case anet needs to drop guilds altogether, as that one of the whole points, some guilds are very open, some are the definition of inclusiveness. Guild only events allow group play how they want, when they want, it also helps push people to join a guild and be active and not some random people running around with a tag not interacting with anyone. If they want people to be active with others, guilds do this FAR better than random tags and pugs, which have little to no communication and in many cases arguing if there is.

Enough of this PC crap.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

Enough of this PC crap.

Has nothing to do with being PC. Anet has said a lot of people will automatically log out of WvW if they don’t see a tag, and that’s why it’s never going to change.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

Don’t want inclusiveness? If thats the case anet needs to drop guilds altogether, as that one of the whole points, some guilds are very open, some are the definition of inclusiveness. Guild only events allow group play how they want, when they want, it also helps push people to join a guild and be active and not some random people running around with a tag not interacting with anyone. If they want people to be active with others, guilds do this FAR better than random tags and pugs, which have little to no communication and in many cases arguing if there is.

Enough of this PC crap.

I highly agree, may I suggest that ANet and the GW2’s WvW community. Look at the squad system in ESO’s AvA. It works far better then having randoms who can’t be bothered to help but to just farm scraps from groups, only to end up continuously hurting said group.

ESO does not have it’s squad leader marker available for players outside the squad to see. Yet there is more of a “lets actually work together to achieve our objectives.” Then in GW2 with the visible for all to see tag. Only to end up helping the enemies move then the actual guild group they are trying to farm with.

Also I believe that the revive on enemy death system in GW2 should be looked at again. It is the biggest contributor to threads like these. Also in my opinion the current rally system in GW2’s WvW just promotes even more omni blobbling server stacking zerglings.

Which in my opinion is only fun for a few. I may be wrong in these opinions. However this is how I feel about the subject. This is why I choose not to partake of this current age of WvW. It just promote server stacking from the ground up. Again not much fun at least in my case. I believe WvW should require more tactics, and strategy then sever stacking and out blobing the enemies down. This is what ESO’s AvA does much better then GW2’s WvW. The population difference between the two different RvR-like modes. In my opinion is actual fact what more players enjoy.

Jirayu.5834:

Some guilds like to run only with their own people and dont want pugs.

So is pugs following guild an American thing or something? Most of the time pugs seem to respect the yellow tag (“official” closed raid tag on my server). Theres no need for a private tag. Those that blatanty dont respect guilds will run after the closest bundle of players anyway – ie your guild raid that “only run with its own”. If it aint tagged it aint a raid so cho cho leeching!!!

I understand both sides, really I do, but not having private/invisible tags just creates more toxicity than having them. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been part of or saw fight guilds do things like fake push to intentionally try and kill off the pugs around, ping WP’s then tp someplace else, etc. Then the arguments start and the salt starts flowing and everyone just hates everyone else.

There’s a lack of respect on all sides and let’s face it, it’s the internet and it isn’t going to change, and a simple thing from Anet will cut out the inevitable BS.

Dawdler.8521:

Jirayu.5834:

Some guilds like to run only with their own people and dont want pugs.

So is pugs following guild an American thing or something? Most of the time pugs seem to respect the yellow tag (“official” closed raid tag on my server). Theres no need for a private tag. Those that blatanty dont respect guilds will run after the closest bundle of players anyway – ie your guild raid that “only run with its own”. If it aint tagged it aint a raid so cho cho leeching!!!

It’s an NA thing, and EU probably doesn’t have it but EU also has a completely different culture, to the point where I’ve said before that NA plays real WvW while EU plays GvG. The statement’s not exactly correct, but imo it’s close enough.

My Point here is when you run tagless, You lost some useful features which required a tag. like Lt. or markers. Call target on leader is not helping in many case. like when ppl call target on enemy.

It’s also a little bit harder for positioning. like call water, empower, or regroup on tag. (ppl can practice yeah, but why dont give them a little more convenient?)

And this also reduce problem like tag watcher spy from opponent server.

Maybe you can enable marker for tagless squad? maybe make the apple tag work as private tag?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Really appreciate you coming in here and giving us an official response! It’s a welcome sight, Thank you!

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

You really missed the point here.

There are ppl who already run in private group. This feature will give these ppl more benefits. And yet ppl who run pugmanding will still use public tag.

Or at least give ability to use marker in tagless group.

Jirayu.5834:

You really missed the point here.

I think you missed the point. They don’t want to spend resources on developing features that aren’t healthy for the game population. I’m sure they have no problem with guilds running tagless right now, but they don’t want to support it, and gave very good reasons why.

Jirayu.5834:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

You really missed the point here.

There are ppl who already run in private group. This feature will give these ppl more benefits. And yet ppl who run pugmanding will still use public tag.

Or at least give ability to use marker in tagless group.

Nah, McKenna understands, it’s you who is missing the point.

Fluffball.8307:

Jirayu.5834:

You really missed the point here.

I think you missed the point. They don’t want to spend resources on developing features that aren’t healthy for the game population. I’m sure they have no problem with guilds running tagless right now, but they don’t want to support it, and gave very good reasons why.

I still think dev missed the point. I dont think when ppl have private tag they will just flooded to it and stop running public tag.

But anyway, If they say so, I can’t do anything about it.

Jirayu.5834:

I still think dev missed the point. I dont think when ppl have private tag they will just flooded to it and stop running public tag.

But anyway, If they say so, I can’t do anything about it.

It’s hard to understand what you mean, but I think you’re saying people will still go to the public tag if people are running private tags? That only works if there is a visible tag. The dev’s point was people will simply turn the game off if they don’t see a tag up. And to be honest, even as a roamer I might do that because that means enemy zergs are running rampant.

Fluffball.8307:

Jirayu.5834:

I still think dev missed the point. I dont think when ppl have private tag they will just flooded to it and stop running public tag.

But anyway, If they say so, I can’t do anything about it.

It’s hard to understand what you mean, but I think you’re saying people will still go to the public tag if people are running private tags? That only works if there is a visible tag. The dev’s point was people will simply turn the game off if they don’t see a tag up. And to be honest, even as a roamer I might do that because that means enemy zergs are running rampant.

I mean those commander who already run a public tag will continue to do it

but those who currently run tagless now can tag up privately (visible only to squad member) and use features that need to tag up. like marker or Lt.

Jirayu.5834:

but those who currently run tagless now can tag up privately (visible only to squad member) and use features that need to tag up. like marker or Lt.

That’s something the devs have repeatedly said they aren’t going to spend resources on and very specifically told you why. There is nothing they aren’t understanding about the situation.

Fluffball.8307:

Jirayu.5834:

but those who currently run tagless now can tag up privately (visible only to squad member) and use features that need to tag up. like marker or Lt.

That’s something the devs have repeatedly said they aren’t going to spend resources on and very specifically told you why. There is nothing they aren’t understanding about the situation.

Well, can you kindly explain me why this will drive people off?

What I dont understand is ppl outside a tagless squad already cant see tag (since there is none) then how this private tag can be used to exclude people?

or this is actually by design to force ppl to tag up?

Think about it like this. Players hop into wvw. They check the map. See no tag. Go to another map.

There may be three guilds running on that map, but they can’t tell in the seconds they take to process the info. So they map hop, then log.

That’s why visible tags matter.

It’s not about preventing people from running tagless. People have always, and will always do that. It’s about spending resources on something the devs don’t want to support.

It’s like me saying I think we should have a comprehensive government sponsored ad campaign to promote the use of added sugar in food. It’s not illegal to add sugar, but why would the government put resources into it?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Bogus reasoning. It’s already easy to exclude players from a squad by kicking them.

Also quite frankly I don’t like the idea of anet catering to the lowest common denominator of player who won’t participate in the game mode unless they see a commander tag on the map. You’re enabling weak minded players.

Fluffball.8307:

It’s not about preventing people from running tagless. People have always, and will always do that. It’s about spending resources on something the devs don’t want to support.

It’s like me saying I think we should have a comprehensive government sponsored ad campaign to promote the use of added sugar in food. It’s not illegal to add sugar, but why would the government put resources into it?

Ok, I see where I was missing the point now. It was about dev don’t want to spend resources on it. since they don’t see this as a healthy features (I understand this point).

Still, I dont know why this can be used to exclude player who already not noticing private squad in the first place.

Israel.7056:

You’re enabling weak minded players.

They’re keeping players in the game mode and undoubtedly have the numbers to support that. Doesn’t matter if you have all the tag-free features in the world if no one else is playing.

Fluffball.8307:

It’s not about preventing people from running tagless. People have always, and will always do that. It’s about spending resources on something the devs don’t want to support.

Yea, I’d rather see them spend resources on encouraging guild play. When a server loses its guilds, the “no tag” problem also appears.

I don’t feel this feature would hurt the game as some guilds prefer to run on their own to try and improve their game — meanwhile there are plenty of other pugmanders to pick up the militia.

That said, melee train and any backline that care can call target on the driver while pick does their own thing. Its not a perfect system, but it works well enough.

~ Kovu

At this point in the game, there are a lot of time zones where there are no pugmanders…

Like I said all of this seems from the Rally mechanics. If that was heavily nerfed or not as OP in WvW. Guilds would not mind can’t be bother to coordinate PUGs dying all of the time. Because they would not be reviving the enemy thru a funny mechanic. All this hate of PUGs is from them reviving enemies, more so when the enemy zerg is 2 are 3 times your group size and you get half of them down just for a PUG with can’t be bothered to try, then die. Then you have to watch all of the enemies you killed rally off of the PUGs. Which makes all of your planing and executing against huge odds all for not.

Sarika.3756:

At this point in the game, there are a lot of time zones where there are no pugmanders…

And some teams have only one during NA prime even.

Run tagless, problem solved as much as it can be. Anyone who sees a large group of players will usually follow them anyway so your precious “alone time” with a guild will always have people tailing. It’s the nature of the mode.

The best thing you can do for guild runs is run in a tag less squad and target your leader. It’s good to help train people to stay on tag since the target is harder to see. It’s also a great way to have upcoming commanders to learn to lead without having map chat ripping them to shreds.

Alright, there seems to be some issues here about people not understanding.

This is a QoL request for guilds that run closed and pugless

Understand, that guilds who want no pugs on their tag already run tagless. They then have to deal with the disorganization that comes with it. It hurts their ability to engage in combat. But they’re not showing up on the map and thus excluding people anyway.

This won’t lead to anything new, just make it easier for a lot of guilds.

The argument that it creates exclusivity and the example that someone enters a WvW map, sees no tags on, leaves, even if there are guild groups on the map because currently, those guild groups are already running tagless. The scenario you’re laying out is already happening, only it’s harder on the guild. The argument of exclusivity is worthless.

It is already there. Closed squad, and many people will pick up on that.

Also there’s yellow dots….

Does it really matter that random strangers might accidentally share the glory of capping empty towers and ganking roamers?

Maybe instead we should have the angry clouds from SAB pop up whenever a pug gets too close to these self appointed VIPs. You know, put a fun spin on segregating the game’s population even more.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

i agree

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

I also agree. Groups already know how to run tagless. Keep commander tags public.

Fluffball.8307:

Israel.7056:

You’re enabling weak minded players.

They’re keeping players in the game mode and undoubtedly have the numbers to support that. Doesn’t matter if you have all the tag-free features in the world if no one else is playing.

No they’re not and I’d love to see their stats that can magically identify any one particular player motivation for participation at any given time.

I’m more inclined to think that they’re just making an assumption about what people like and what people don’t like based on preconceived notions about their playerbase.

Weak minded players.

You mean those that can’t solve an easily dealt with problem and need to ask the developers to solve their problems?

Or making generalizations? Maybe I shouldn’t.

No thanks. My leaders die on inc regardless. Public pin saves commanders’ lives by providing more meat.

The work around is to go tagless, and target leader. Roll all frontline as Charr, and the rest Asura. Nobody should be lost on where to be. Asura can be their own group for secondary targeting without needing a lieutenant.

I have never found lieutenants useful outside of GvGs, but that’s my personal opinion. Usually it’s just used to pin snipe anyway or invite people in (although you could turn on public invites…)

its unfortunate that guilds and skill groups aren’t the focus of wvw.

you always have the option of running tagless and targeting your driver.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

although i understand the op’s point of view i have to agree with McKenna here for the same reasons as he stated here.

Thanks McKenna for taking the time to post. Nice to see you here!