Guild Wars 2

@Eddbopkins – You can invuln through condition ticks the same way you can invuln through power damage attacks. Again, the same negation technique works against both power and condi attacks.

And like Tricare pointed out, endure pain is an awful example since its part of a 2 stance combo Warriors have. 1 stance made them invulnerable to condition damage, the other to power damage. They are perfect complement stances.

Resistance is way too powerful to be kept in the game in its current state. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but its way too strong to be a boon.

Fine don’t give full immunity to condis. But why should there be no stat to mitigate condi damage like how there’s stat to mitigate physical damage. Why does condi get a free pass to do 100%damage 100% of the time? When there’s so much out there for physical damage. Your complaints don’t stand up at all when the immunity is only TEMPORARY

Eddbopkins.2630:

Fine don’t give full immunity to condis. But why should there be no stat to mitigate condi damage like how there’s stat to mitigate physical damage. Why does condi get a free pass to do 100%damage 100% of the time? When there’s so much out there for physical damage. Your complaints don’t stand up at all when the immunity is only TEMPORARY

I said it should be in the game.

Resistance Boon:
-33% condition damage
-33% condition duration

Sounds fair to me.

Tricare.2946:

I’m not claiming anything, I’m pointing out how there is no counter play to the Boon other than waiting it out.

Corruption isn’t a valid option, otherwise ever class would need access to it.

Like I said, look at stability, it use to be 100% immunity. It’s not anymore because there was no counter to it, other than wait it out.

Every build has access to boon removal, through traits, utilities, weapon skills, and/or sigils. If resistance is shutting your build down and you have no boon removal anywhere to get rid of resistance, this is your problem.

Resistance is a top-prioritized stat in the removal queue, too, so it doesn’t take much.

It’s exactly the same argument as telling people to take cleanses. Sometimes there just isn’t much room in a build to load up on five of them, but people still think condi builds with full tank stats are fair when not considering the inherent requirement of synergy of stats when playing power/damage.

OriOri.8724:

JTGuevara.9018:

No, enough with the buffs please! 100% protection is only going to encourage condi spam since you cannot inflict direct damage.

Power creep is just going to kill this game even further. Condis from elite specs are the problem. They need to be slashed.

That’s the point of this thread. OP is trying to point out how ridiculous it is that Resistance is 100% immunity to both damage and control effects from condis, as well as blind, heal reduction from weakness, endurance regen reduction from weakness etc…. Its ridiculously overpowered. OP is trying to get people to admit that by getting them to admit how ridiculous it would be if protection offered the same results against power damage and hard CC. Resistance is just way too powerful to be a boon. Its handed out like candy, and you can double the duration of this clearly broken effect. It needs to be nerfed or flat out removed.

Choppy.4183:

OriOri.8724:

Resistance only seems balanced because condis have been buffed extensively, both in power and in application. But these buffs to condis didn’t come out until after resistance was in the game. Resistance is just not a healthy buff in the game. Never was, never will be in its current state.

Didn’t resistance get added after HoT and at the same time that condi stack limits were removed? What other major buffs got added after resistance?

So both slow and taunt were added with resistance. Plus HoT brought insane amounts of condi application with elite specs, way too much condi application. And since April 2016 patch, condi skills have been steadily buffed in the game.

Heh. True. True. I didn’t even read the OP, I just read the title. OP is correct.

You’re absolutely on-point, though. Resistance is ridiculously strong. As a warrior main, it’s all I use. I don’t even cleanse condis, I wait them out. I roll Knight gear with Runes of Resistance, plus Dogged March, so condis just roll right off unless I meet condi mesmers or thieves.

Elite specs brought insane condi AND boon application. The gameplay and speed is just absurdly fast. It needs to slow down.

It slowed down pretty dramatically for the core specs. There’s more damage negation than ever before, with some professions pushing close to 70% of it. You just don’t notice it because so many elites have damage coefficients/damage amplifiers that push twice or more the damage they dealt prior to the expansion.

Well, all the dumb, bad players won out here. The idiots who let condis stack up, dummies who don’t run condi clears, pugs who don’t join a squad and run proper builds that benefit the group, and guilds that would rather complain on the forums rather than adapt to something and have it be a non issue. The morons who think that 2 seconds of resistance that 2 classes have access to = 8 seconds of protection applied by just about every class and build in the game. GG. Mediocrity has won out again. Participation trophy for all!

DeceiverX.8361:

Tricare.2946:

I’m not claiming anything, I’m pointing out how there is no counter play to the Boon other than waiting it out.

Corruption isn’t a valid option, otherwise ever class would need access to it.

Like I said, look at stability, it use to be 100% immunity. It’s not anymore because there was no counter to it, other than wait it out.

Every build has access to boon removal, through traits, utilities, weapon skills, and/or sigils. If resistance is shutting your build down and you have no boon removal anywhere to get rid of resistance, this is your problem.

Resistance is a top-prioritized stat in the removal queue, too, so it doesn’t take much.

It’s exactly the same argument as telling people to take cleanses. Sometimes there just isn’t much room in a build to load up on five of them, but people still think condi builds with full tank stats are fair when not considering the inherent requirement of synergy of stats when playing power/damage.

Not every build has access to boon removal/corrupt, unless you’re talking about sigils, which imo doesn’t count.

We’re not talking about how condition builds only need Dire gear to be OP.

We’re talking about a Boon that is over the top with 100% damage reduction AND control immunity.

If the Boon only gave damage reduction while still allowing cripple, chill, immobilize, weakness, etc. I would say it’s good, because there is counter play to the boon.

I’ts a BOON, no boon should give 100% immunity to anything.

Eddbopkins.2630:

Fine don’t give full immunity to condis. But why should there be no stat to mitigate condi damage like how there’s stat to mitigate physical damage. Why does condi get a free pass to do 100%damage 100% of the time? When there’s so much out there for physical damage. Your complaints don’t stand up at all when the immunity is only TEMPORARY

Resistance is a boon not a stat. But I do 100% agree that we need a stat that reduces the damage that conditions do. It could be toughness, with different scaling than it uses for power damage reduction, or it could be another stat like HP or vitality like some people have suggested. I fully support improving 1 or more stats to reduce the damage that conditions do to players. And I fully support massively scaling back condition application, along with a proper cleansing hierarchy for conditions. But I cannot support resistance in its current form. If it isn’t nerfed, the game would be better off without the boon at all.

Seems people are trying to look at resistance in a vacuum. If you do, then it’s quite easy to see that it’s a ridiculously OP boon.

Now, why would that have been implemented?

Eddbopkins.2630:

Fine don’t give full immunity to condis. But why should there be no stat to mitigate condi damage like how there’s stat to mitigate physical damage. Why does condi get a free pass to do 100%damage 100% of the time? When there’s so much out there for physical damage. Your complaints don’t stand up at all when the immunity is only TEMPORARY

^^^ This. Nerfing Resistance just further pushes the already heavy condi meta (and boon) further to condi.

You have to nerf condi damage across the board in some way too then. Resistance is way too “strong” but it is a direct correlation to creep of condi spam (way too many buffs to condis, added types of condis and gear orientated (especially condi duration like Expertise and Runes) to support condi builds over the years has led to this issue).

The elephant in the room is still that condi takes two stats to create an effective damage build and is countered by no other stat. Power requires 3 stats to create an effective damage build and is still countered by 1 stat. (Both excluding Vitality and Healing Power). Step back and take a look, that’s why every effective WvW/PvP build is built on condi removals traits/utilities (in addition to defensive stats) outside of some stealth spam builds.

That said, this all was sort of balanced at one point but then ANet decided through design choice that adding large stacks of condis (and variety) with insta cast/near insta cast utilities, condi trait improvements and simple reapplication with autoattacks (spam) pushed the balance way too favorably to condi damage.

Protection should be a 33% reduction to both direct damage, and condition damage. This would stack additively with effects which decrease incoming condition damage, like Scrapper’s Adaptive Armor. Terror would be considered direct damage for the purposes of calculating damage. The Tempest trait which increases protection’s effectiveness would only increase the direct damage portion of protection

Resistance should be a 33% reduction to condition “effectiveness”, reducing the non-damaging component of conditions such as cripple’s movement speed penalty, poison’s reduced healing, and chill’s cool down and movement speed penalty. Would stack additively with effects like thief’s Hard to Catch, and Rev’s Dwarven Battle Training.

Immobilize, fear, and taunt should be considered strictly control effects; unaffected by expertise, and cancelled by stun breaks.

Protection should remain power protection only, otherwise it opens up the door for bugs with traits that just buff it versus power damage.

• Resistance should be decreased to 50% damage reduction from condi ticks. If it also allows you to ignore secondary effects from condis (healing reduction from poison, weakness, CD speed reduction from chill, attack speed reduction from slow) then the damage reduction should be lowered to 33-40%.

• Stacks of Stab should be needed to resist soft CC skills, but the stacks shouldn’t be consumed when you get hit with soft CC. So for example if you had 1 stack of stab and got hit with 10 second chill, your movement speed wouldn’t be affected, but you keep the stab. If you then get hit with a knockdown 5 seconds later, you lose the stack of stab, and for the 5 sec left of chill, your movement speed is reduced by 66%. Stab should only affect soft CC, the recharge reduction of chill should remain there.

• Immobilize should be turned into a control effect and countered by stab.

Yes, I am aware that a ton of stuff would need to be rebalanced for this to happen. But I do think this would be a better system overall. Resistance would have its place as the condi equivalent to protection, stab would be the boon you need to resist control effects. Resistance would no longer be total immunity to condis and would finally be balanced in concept. And this also allows for some classes that are supposed to specialize in resistance (read: Revs) to gain traits that improve the resistance they give just like Scrapper can improve the protection it gives out.

I still don’t understand the argument here… it seems to boil down to some people thinking resistance is too strong in comparison to other boons rather than actual outcomes. Reference to actual outcomes, rather than other boons, is the only argument that should matter.