Claiming keep & buffs - can we improve it?

Claiming keep & buffs - can we improve it?

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Posted by: Luna.9640

Luna.9640

[Art Of War]

I’ve noticed that structure claiming have 1 major flow – People claiming Tower/Keeps without adding any guild/wvw buff like +5 supply and deny this opportunity to other more wvw oriented guilds.

I run a small guild myself but i’m almost always able to deploy most (if not all) necessary and useful guild buffs IF i wasn’t denied this opportunity by other guilds who claim structures just to show their guild banner or their name at http://mos.millenium.org without adding even the +5 which is the most popular guild buff added to structures.

So my idea here is to re-work the guild buff related to WvW by :

  • Add claim buff (a buff that is required to be activated so the given guild be able to claim anything at all in wvw)
  • At least few buffs active to be able to claim a structure be it a Supply camp. (this will help wvw oriented guilds and Supply camp defenders as well)
  • Guild names shown by interacting with Keep/Tower and supply camp lords. (so guild who still want to show off can do it but this time contributing to wvw by adding buffs.)

(edited by Luna.9640)

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Posted by: EmperorOfDoom.4362

EmperorOfDoom.4362

Why a different buff to claim anything ? why multiple for a supply camp ?

I’d say just make it you at least need the +5 supply buff to claim a camp.
At least 3 of the stat buffs to claim a tower.
At least 5 of the stat buffs to claim a keep / stonemist.

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Posted by: Luna.9640

Luna.9640

Why a different buff to claim anything ? why multiple for a supply camp ?

Different buff to stop griefing and trolling that is happening currently by claiming stuff with no buff and purpose just to deny rest of the world to do and show off.

I agree on rest of the +3 and +5 buff idea on top of claim buff.

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Posted by: LostInSmoke.2590

LostInSmoke.2590

They should make it so, if your guild has higher buffs, you can overwrite another guild’s Claim. Problem solved.

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Posted by: MarMaster.6241

MarMaster.6241

They should make it so, if your guild has higher buffs, you can overwrite another guild’s Claim. Problem solved.

Too logical. “more data needed”

Dragonbrand (JQ) [FIRE]bats ~ Trusted member of the Universe
Mar Steadfast G, Silent Intrigue T, Mar Fidget Engi, Mar Fierce W, Silent Awe M
In GW2 since BWE1 ~ ~ ~ Guild leader of Legio Romana [LR], too

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Posted by: Shadowmist.9283

Shadowmist.9283

They should make it so, if your guild has higher buffs, you can overwrite another guild’s Claim. Problem solved.

I like this. Make it so!

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Posted by: Delta.2093

Delta.2093

This claiming it’s a very ugly part of GW2, bad design and continually ignored. Those who play WvW and care about their team, knows it, but are powerless and only Anet can solve it.

A previous post about this problem, buried here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Claiming-Towers-to-avoid-buffs-griefing

and my very old warning relating to this, moved to “suggestions” and forgot there:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Claiming-objectives-promotes-hatred

Delta | Spell (M) | Bold (W) | Conde (N) | Sky (El) | Flames (G) | Heart (T)
[FUG/SG/TDT] on the Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

When a “rival” guild want to overwrite the claim of the current guild, Guild A and Guild B are turned to a guild faction and hostile to each other (they count neither as friendlies or enemies of the homeserver, thus cannot be killed or rezzed by random homeserver pugs, only the opposite guild and enemy servers).

Whoever cap the center wins the claim and Guild A/Guild B are returned to friendly status. Failure to cap the center in 10 minutes mean the event failed, with a 10 minute ahead warning before it start.

Friendly GvG, who would have thought it would be that easy?

(edited by Dawdler.8521)

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

The thoughts I’m taking into solving the problem:

- Most guild upgrades are meaningless or uninteresting, except for +5 supply
- Claiming structures offers no benefit other than activating upgrades
- There is no WvW equivalent of guild missions

So:

- Remove WvW guild upgrades completely in their current form
- Add +5 supply as an upgrade to the Supply Camp rather than a guild upgrade
- Make assaulting, capturing, and defending a fortification a Guild Mission

At length;

Remove guild upgrades. As I said, they’re… Not really that interesting. You pop them and they’re done, and the benefits they give are kinda eh? To be honest, they don’t really seem noticable at all, so why bother having them in there? It’s complication that leads to unnecessary squabbles.

+5 Supply at camps. Have it sit there on its own, for 75 supply/10s. +5 supply is a very relevant upgrade; an upgrade I’d probably argue is almost too good for its current implementation. This’ll encourage defending high-value pocket camps for resupplying teams, too.

Add a new guild mission; Guild Conquest(two tiers). On activating Guild Conquest, you are given a random tower or keep (which you do not currently own) depending on tier to capture. This is the first half of the Guild Mission, and successfully capturing the tower/keep within 3 hours completes it, giving a reward chest with 2 guild commendations in it. Anyone who helped in the capture gets the chest as well.

You then have a second phase of the Guild Mission, which is the Defend phase; you have to hold the tower/keep for the next half hour/hour depending on tier. For the sake of your sanity, your guild is the only one allowed to queue upgrades or take supply from the depot. If you complete this phase, you get a guild mission chest with 2 commendation in it. Anyone who contributed to the defense gets the chest as well.

During the Defend Phase, the other servers will have an alert on the map in the local borderlands (not global) alerting them to your Guild Mission, and they will have an Attack event. If they attack and successfully capture the objective, anyone contributing to the capture will get 1 guild commendation (no chest).

Like every other guild mission, you can do the Guild Conquest phases once a week. The reward for interrupting another guild’s Guild Defense is daily instead of weekly.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

(edited by Sarrs.4831)

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Posted by: Hule.8794

Hule.8794

Guild mission is awful idea.
Look this week rank 21 face rank 16. They have 4x numbers that we do. So it is nearly imposible to capture anything in prime time. And yes, my guild mates are online mainly during prime time.
Also defend anything if 50 man zerg is knocking on your door is imposible. Many times they just pvd, they dont use any siege.
It would make sense only if the tower/keep would be automatically T3 with full upgrades. But that will never happen.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Guild mission is awful idea.
Look this week rank 21 face rank 16. They have 4x numbers that we do. So it is nearly imposible to capture anything in prime time. And yes, my guild mates are online mainly during prime time.
Also defend anything if 50 man zerg is knocking on your door is imposible. Many times they just pvd, they dont use any siege.
It would make sense only if the tower/keep would be automatically T3 with full upgrades. But that will never happen.

Those problems look like they’re derived mainly from the ranking/matchup system and walls/gates just being meaningless. So if it were in a balanced matchups and paper wasn’t quite so paper (maybe more like cardboard i guess)?

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Luna.9640

Luna.9640

Here is the reason why there should be a “claim buff” that has to be activated and have timer like other buffs in order to claim a structure in wvw.

If you check the attachment you can see that Overlook in my server is taken and hold for 2 days. (was hold for 2 days previously too but enemy managed to reset it at some point)

The guild that holds in claimed it didn’t apply a single buff since than and its fully upgraded and full of supply.

There should be a “claim buff” so when the buff timer finishes another guild can claim the keep on top of everything i said at on 1st post.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Hule.8794

Hule.8794

Luna why is that a problem? Yes if the keep is attacked, buff is great help. But you hold that keep for 2 days now. You have the strength to defend it. Why any guild should put buff there if it is not needed?

Guild buffs should be aplied when needed. For example if my guild is doing Tower Defense we always apply every buff we can. But not for a keep, specialy on EB where you have WP right next to that keep and you can always take it back in a matter of minutes.

And other question. Who upgraded that tower? Who spend all that money? On my server is normal that if bigger wvw guild (aTs, TaG,Pwny,CC,Fire and many others) take keep they also are responsible for upgrades. And we actually care about those upgrades and we are upgrading it.

So you have fully upgraded keep with full supplies. You got it probably sieged. You hold near towers, SM is beiing flipped regulary. Why do You need that buff on that keep?

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Posted by: Luna.9640

Luna.9640

Luna why is that a problem? Yes if the keep is attacked, buff is great help. But you hold that keep for 2 days now. You have the strength to defend it. Why any guild should put buff there if it is not needed?

Guild buffs should be aplied when needed. For example if my guild is doing Tower Defense we always apply every buff we can. But not for a keep, specialy on EB where you have WP right next to that keep and you can always take it back in a matter of minutes.

And other question. Who upgraded that tower? Who spend all that money? On my server is normal that if bigger wvw guild (aTs, TaG,Pwny,CC,Fire and many others) take keep they also are responsible for upgrades. And we actually care about those upgrades and we are upgrading it.

So you have fully upgraded keep with full supplies. You got it probably sieged. You hold near towers, SM is beiing flipped regulary. Why do You need that buff on that keep?

It’s a problem because i did upgraded and defended this Keep with my guild 24/7 while some1 else just claimed it right after our server took it.

They claimed it and left it like this – wooden with no upgrades,no defense or any siege and buffs.

Its not about this keep only its about every keep/tower/castle/supply camp in this game.

People like the guild who claimed the example i showed just claims the structures and leave it.While guilds like mine do the maintenance – upgrade/defense etc.. and thats is why there should be a CLAIM BUFF so they when the claim buff is over i can go and take the structure i put time,money and would like to improve and help myself and others who defend by applying other buffs and stuff.

There should be a counter to all the troll guilds once forever and punishment too.

(edited by Luna.9640)

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Posted by: Delta.2093

Delta.2093

The sole reason for claiming an objective is to provide buffs. No buffs needed – then DON’T claim it. You don’t have buffs to provide? Then let others claim it. Nobody have buffs? Then keep it unclaimed. DON’T prevent others to claim it… Is this so hard to understand? Of course it is – because you don’t care of anything else, just to have your bloody logo there. I’d like to be able to express how much I hate your kind"; those who “care” about their team.

Delta | Spell (M) | Bold (W) | Conde (N) | Sky (El) | Flames (G) | Heart (T)
[FUG/SG/TDT] on the Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Furry Fury.9036

Furry Fury.9036

Firstly I’ll say that claiming structures and leaving them with no buffs and without management is a real pain, and any practical way of controlling this would be good.

Claim Buff

If I understand, the idea is that a structure is automatically unclaimed when the applied buff expires, allowing another guild to claim.

If the original claim was an act of griefing, what’s to stop the same griefers claiming under a different guild with an active Claim Buff?

Claiming Without Buffs: Why?

There’s a definite difference between +5 Supply and the other buffs in terms of appropriate application.

Extra Supply

It can be very helpful to claim a structure in order to prevent an extra supply buff being applied. If you’re trying to upgrade a structure and unknowing or uncooperative teammates are taking supply the upgrade is impeded. This is more effective when the map population is lower as obviously sufficient number of players can drain the supply whether it is +5 or not.

The Other Buffs

I’m not saying here that buffs are unnecessary.

Mostly attacks on structures are repelled by weight of numbers and/or effective defensive siege. Conversely defenses fail to overwhelming numbers or ineffective siege. The borderline situations of make-or-break based on stat buffs are relatively few in my experience. As such, when our guild claims a structure, it may be so we can apply the appropriate buffs when they’re called for. This depends on the flow of play on the map at the time, it may be that we apply blanket buffs. If we’re leaving a structure as a guild, we unclaim if we’re not going to apply blanket buffs, allowing others to manage the structure.

Also…

One point here is that there isn’t one fixed strategy for playing WvW (read: applying buffs), so making rules for or against the necessity of active buffs as a prerequisite to claiming is a sticky situation.

But I would really like to find a practical solution to the griefers.