Guild Wars 2

THIS IS NOT A MATCHUP THREAD…

The WvW community DESERVES a GENUINE response from the development team regarding the current state of competitive health of WvW.

Currently there is yet ANOTHER server making mass guild purchases… this server in question in the last 3 weeks has spent TENS OF THOUSANDS of gold to move in excess of 10 guilds to their server each with 30-50 man zergs.

This has stripped SEVERAL servers of their BEST guilds. If this continues, WvW will end up with 6-7 superservers and EVERY other server will be a graveyard…

How is this even REMOTELY good for the competitive health of WvW in GW2? Since when did a game that was based on free to play become pay to win in WvW?

I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on this topic. PLEASE keep this topic CIVIL and DO NOT turn it into a matchup thread. In particular I would like to hear SOMETHING from a developer regarding this even IF it is just saying “we are looking into it”.

I find it appalling that all a server has to do to win in WvW is whip out a credit card now…

My 2 cents: if Anet is not willing to solve the population unbalance between servers, so just shut down like 16 servers and put the players on the 8 servers that remains. Ah, and put new names on the remain servers, because people will cry about servers been favored, even though it’s a whole new community.

There. Now there’s competitivity (is this a real word?), there’s always fair battles, and WvW is healthy again.

You can actually prove your claims? If your answer is no, your complaint is invalid…

Jeknar.6184:

You can actually prove your claims? If your answer is no, your complaint is invalid…

Other than website/forum advertising for paying to move and multiple players including one of the MAJOR guild’s that moved GM admitting to getting bought… no there is no proof…

Coincidentally I know you are from the server in question… I would ask that you please do not derail this thread or get abusive in order to hide a VERY important issue in WvW…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

THIS IS NOT A MATCHUP THREAD…

The WvW community DESERVES a GENUINE response from the development team regarding the current state of competitive health of WvW.

Currently there is yet ANOTHER server making mass guild purchases… this server in question in the last 3 weeks has spent TENS OF THOUSANDS of gold to move in excess of 10 guilds to their server each with 30-50 man zergs.

This has stripped SEVERAL servers of their BEST guilds. If this continues, WvW will end up with 6-7 superservers and EVERY other server will be a graveyard…

How is this even REMOTELY good for the competitive health of WvW in GW2? Since when did a game that was based on free to play become pay to win in WvW?

I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on this topic. PLEASE keep this topic CIVIL and DO NOT turn it into a matchup thread. In particular I would like to hear SOMETHING from a developer regarding this even IF it is just saying “we are looking into it”.

I find it appalling that all a server has to do to win in WvW is whip out a credit card now…

I’m in agreement that the current system is broken when viewed through the lens of what makes for engaging competitive play; it’s working exactly as intended when viewed through the lens of making money for ArenaNet, though.

However, you can’t fault a server for “purchasing” guilds. They’re simply working with the hand they’ve been dealt inside this broken system. Furthermore, it’s not like guilds are something you can buy on the gem store. The guild that transfers chooses to do so and shares as much responsibility for jumping ship (if not more so) as the server that is “buying” them.

Regardless, all of the above is but a symptom and not the cause. The cause is ArenaNet’s allowing unrestricted transfers which then unbalance the servers. That cause is not likely to go away any time soon because transfer fees are the primary method that ArenaNet has chosen – rightly or wrongly – to monetize WvW.

To eliminate the cause, it must be replaced with a new system which will maintain income equal to what ArenaNet currently receives from transfer fees. If there is no viable substitute which meets this criteria, then it’s not in ArenaNet’s best financial interests to change the current system; at least not in the short-term (long-term is another matter altogether).

yanniell.1236:

My 2 cents: if Anet is not willing to solve the population unbalance between servers, so just shut down like 16 servers and put the players on the 8 servers that remains. Ah, and put new names on the remain servers, because people will cry about servers been favored, even though it’s a whole new community.

There. Now there’s competitivity (is this a real word?), there’s always fair battles, and WvW is healthy again.

Ultimately, this won’t work; it will just compress the problem. Players would just transfer up to the #1 or #2 server out of the 8.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Coincidentally I know you are from the server in question… I would ask that you please do not derail this thread or get abusive in order to hide a VERY important issue in WvW…

You know so much that you didn’t even bothered to read my signature saying “Eredon Terrace” (While the server in question is Devona’s Rest).

Laughable…

@OP

Just because your server is the one “taking the loss” (of players/guilds) doesn’t mean it is bad. Pretty sure ANET shattered the server-loyalty mentality with Mega Servers in PVE.
Only some WvW folks still hang on to that mentality at this point.

TBH it is much better for guilds/people to be able to move around (bought or not), because it will give some breaks to the stagnate matchings. SoR falling, DR rising, those small changes bring variation to the game. And that is something it desperately needs, even in small amounts.

Sure it sucks that it happened to your server I guess, but the beauty of it is that you can move on as well and find a better place to play. People change jobs all the time, and this game is NOT A JOB, so why would you expect people (many of who are teenagers-young adults) to have some kind of code of honor? Play to have fun, no matter where that is.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

THIS IS NOT A MATCHUP THREAD…

The WvW community DESERVES a GENUINE response from the development team regarding the current state of competitive health of WvW.

Currently there is yet ANOTHER server making mass guild purchases… this server in question in the last 3 weeks has spent TENS OF THOUSANDS of gold to move in excess of 10 guilds to their server each with 30-50 man zergs.

This has stripped SEVERAL servers of their BEST guilds. If this continues, WvW will end up with 6-7 superservers and EVERY other server will be a graveyard…

How is this even REMOTELY good for the competitive health of WvW in GW2? Since when did a game that was based on free to play become pay to win in WvW?

I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on this topic. PLEASE keep this topic CIVIL and DO NOT turn it into a matchup thread. In particular I would like to hear SOMETHING from a developer regarding this even IF it is just saying “we are looking into it”.

I find it appalling that all a server has to do to win in WvW is whip out a credit card now…

I’m in agreement that the current system is broken when viewed through the lens of what makes for engaging competitive play; it’s working exactly as intended when viewed through the lens of making money for ArenaNet, though.

However, you can’t fault a server for “purchasing” guilds. They’re simply working with the hand they’ve been dealt inside this broken system. Furthermore, it’s not like guilds are something you can buy on the gem store. The guild that transfers chooses to do so and shares as much responsibility for jumping ship (if not more so) as the server that is “buying” them.

Regardless, all of the above is but a symptom and not the cause. The cause is ArenaNet’s allowing unrestricted transfers which then unbalance the servers. That cause is not likely to go away any time soon because transfer fees are the primary method that ArenaNet has chosen – rightly or wrongly – to monetize WvW.

To eliminate the cause, it must be replaced with a new system which will maintain income equal to what ArenaNet currently receives from transfer fees. If there is no viable substitute which meets this criteria, then it’s not in ArenaNet’s best financial interests to change the current system; at least not in the short-term (long-term is another matter altogether).

yanniell.1236:

My 2 cents: if Anet is not willing to solve the population unbalance between servers, so just shut down like 16 servers and put the players on the 8 servers that remains. Ah, and put new names on the remain servers, because people will cry about servers been favored, even though it’s a whole new community.

There. Now there’s competitivity (is this a real word?), there’s always fair battles, and WvW is healthy again.

Ultimately, this won’t work; it will just compress the problem. Players would just transfer up to the #1 or #2 server out of the 8.

For what it is worth I wasn’t faulting the server in question or any other server nor was I complaining about a loss…

Also our server has not lost a guild to this yet…

I agree with you the fault lay within the system and I am more than willing to bet that ANET isn’t the company profiting from this given the sheer amount of gold changing hands…

yanniell.1236:

My 2 cents: if Anet is not willing to solve the population unbalance between servers, so just shut down like 16 servers and put the players on the 8 servers that remains. Ah, and put new names on the remain servers, because people will cry about servers been favored, even though it’s a whole new community.

There. Now there’s competitivity (is this a real word?), there’s always fair battles, and WvW is healthy again.

I am not sure if its a want or not want but can they fix it? Your talking about moving ppl not of there own will to different worlds just to have better wvw coverages. I am not sure if there is any thing that can be done to fix pop. for wvw.

There is something wrong with the wvw comunitly or at least parts of it they feel that Anet should fix it so there world dose not lose as badly but its up to that world and the ppl on that world to do that.

@OP

As appalling as you might find it, so? Except for the current tier one servers, and maybe tier 2 as well, we’ve all been through this. Your post is about 1.5 years late.

Servers suck for going to other servers and recruiting, and your servermates suck for being buyable.

But really, it’s about what it does to the server that loses the group of people all at once, isn’kitten Some recover, some don’t. Some pull together, some get blown apart so far that no recovery is really possible.

You want a response from ANet about the reality of human nature?

P.S. Using CAPITALS to try to EMPHASIZE your POINTS just makes your post look like an THE END IS NIGH type leaflet ENCOURAGING people to SELL their POSSESSIONS since the APOCALYPSE hates CLUTTER, apparently.

The WvW concept and server transfers combined has been a flawed design since day 1.

Transfers are WvW’s largest contribution to the game in terms of money (both in game economy and ANet’s.)

ANet devs have said WvW is not designed to be fair.

Precedent has been set for win trading during Tournament.

Coverage impacts winning.

The current state of the game, and player response (including “buying” guilds to win) is a result of (a) some of the above (b) none of the above © all of the above

Rimmy.9217:

@OP

As appalling as you might find it, so? Except for the current tier one servers, and maybe tier 2 as well, we’ve all been through this. Your post is about 1.5 years late.

Servers suck for going to other servers and recruiting, and your servermates suck for being buyable.

But really, it’s about what it does to the server that loses the group of people all at once, isn’kitten Some recover, some don’t. Some pull together, some get blown apart so far that no recovery is really possible.

You want a response from ANet about the reality of human nature?

P.S. Using CAPITALS to try to EMPHASIZE your POINTS just makes your post look like an THE END IS NIGH type leaflet ENCOURAGING people to SELL their POSSESSIONS since the APOCALYPSE hates CLUTTER, apparently.

Our server hasn’t lost anyone… but I do know several servers have been absolutely gutted in the last three weeks. It’s almost to the point I can’t even think of any major WvW guilds that are left from bronze through low/mid silver…

goldenwing.8473:

The WvW concept and server transfers combined has been a flawed design since day 1.

Transfers are WvW’s largest contribution to the game in terms of money (both in game economy and ANet’s.)

ANet devs have said WvW is not designed to be fair.

Precedent has been set for win trading during Tournament.

Coverage impacts winning.

The current state of the game, and player response (including “buying” guilds to win) is a result of (a) some of the above (b) none of the above © all of the above

Again as I said before given the sheer amounts that are getting spent I am willing to bet it isn’t Anet that is getting the money for these server transfers…

Until proven otherwise, I am assuming that if the ability was not contributing to ANet’s bottom line, it would have been addressed.

goldenwing.8473:

Until proven otherwise, I am assuming that if the ability was not contributing to ANet’s bottom line, it would have been addressed.

Your acting like Anet has the power to make ppl play on what world that Anet wants to and Anet simply dose not have that power no one dose. It has nothing to do with money and who making or not making what this is an issue of what the player wants to do and where they want to go. If Anet realty had this power over the players they would not be a game maker they would be the rulers of the world.

There is nothing wrong with bolstering the WvW population of a server via paid transfers.

All a server offering to pay for transfers means to me is that they are serious about WvW and want to move up to larger competition. Even better is that it mixes up the otherwise stale competition.

Let’s do the math shall we?

Right now to transfer to a very high pop it costs 225g per person

Let’s say a server has “purchased” 10 guilds

Now let’s say that on average those guilds can each produce a 40 man zerg.

For argument’s sake lets say ONLY those HIGHLY dedicated zergers of that blob got moved and not the whole guild.

That equates to 400 people bought in 3 weeks at 225g per person.

That is NINETY THOUSAND gold spent…

Yes you read that right… 90,000 gold…

Now lets say at the current exchange rate it takes 20 gems to make ONE gold…

That translates to 1.8 MILLION gems…

to buy that much then exchange to gold to send to those guilds would mean you would need 643 of the $35 gem bundles to obtain the amount of gold you would need…

THAT translates to $22,505 US dollars…

Sorry… I just have issues believing the transfer costs were all obtained through Anet… just sayin…

My comment about transfers above is until someone has proven numbers that indicate it’s going to gold-sellers, I am assuming the money is going into ANet’s coffers.

(edit: Solomon, see second post below)

Given that ANet allows transfers, of course this is a player-determined set of behaviors that ANet has no control over. No where, anywhere did I imply it wasn’t.
However, ANet has set up the circumstances that allows/fosters the behavior.

The fact that they can make money from it means they are not going to turn off transfers.

As I’ve said before, as much as I believe that transfers and WvW should be restricted to characters that have not stepped foot into WvW (e.g. if you want to head to another server, reroll from scratch), transfers themselves have been a standard MMO feature for almost a decade now.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Our server hasn’t lost anyone… but I do know several servers have been absolutely gutted in the last three weeks. It’s almost to the point I can’t even think of any major WvW guilds that are left from bronze through low/mid silver…

Glad to hear you haven’t lost anyone – what is motivating you to bring up this well worn topic on behalf of the servers who have been ‘completely gutted’ now, though?

If you can’t think of any major WvW guilds left from bronze through silver, assuming that’s not just because you don’t play on/against them all, perhaps it’s an issue we’re all familiar with, one that blazfazzes the shimstock, and have come to accept as the reality of the game?

You propose that people be forced to stay where they no longer want to be, as though chaining their ankles would result in their server’s WvW scene remaining unchanged?

Solomon, I would agree on principle, that some of those transfers are probably being funded via outside sources. However, there’s enough cash there coming in that it’s still reasonable to assume ANet is getting “their cut”.

Rimmy.9217:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Our server hasn’t lost anyone… but I do know several servers have been absolutely gutted in the last three weeks. It’s almost to the point I can’t even think of any major WvW guilds that are left from bronze through low/mid silver…

Glad to hear you haven’t lost anyone – what is motivating you to bring up this well worn topic on behalf of the servers who have been ‘completely gutted’ now, though?

If you can’t think of any major WvW guilds left from bronze through silver, assuming that’s not just because you don’t play on/against them all, perhaps it’s an issue we’re all familiar with, one that blazfazzes the shimstock, and have come to accept as the reality of the game?

You propose that people be forced to stay where they no longer want to be, as though chaining their ankles would result in their server’s WvW scene remaining unchanged?

As the saying goes… you never know what it is like until you experience it…

Seeing Servers that were already struggling for population losing their best guilds to me doesn’t foster a competitive environment at all… all it does is show me that in the very near future they may as well just wipe 75% of the servers off the face of the WvW scene as everything from mid silver down will be a graveyard of nothingness…

To be honest, the purpose of this post is to see if a Dev would be able to give some form of logical reasoning as to how this is good for the competitive health of 80% of their servers…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

To be honest, the purpose of this post is to see if a Dev would be able to give some form of logical reasoning as to how this is good for the competitive health of 80% of their servers…

Well, you’re just wasting your time… This issue has been brought ever since the first wave of “Server X is buying guilds” came up. (Ever heard the nickname Buygate?)

What was Anet response back then? None… Why would Anet response today be different if the issue in question is the same?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

To be honest, the purpose of this post is to see if a Dev would be able to give some form of logical reasoning as to how this is good for the competitive health of 80% of their servers…

But ANet doesn’t have to be responsible for the “competitive health” of their servers – if the players in those servers decide to bunch up in a few, that’s on the players, not ANet.

And how would the policy go? Make it impossible to mail gold/gems/high value items to accounts on different servers? Keep a quota of how many people who have ever belonged to x guild and say “Right, there’s already been five that have moved servers – that’s it!”?

Lock the servers? Find every account that’s ever transferred and move them back, refunding their gems?

We did this to ourselves, the “community”. Convince your fellow players that it’s a bad thing for the overall health of the game, if you think you can. They’re the ones who transfer / have transferred / will transfer in the future.

Once they stripped worlds out of PvE, the community of our Worlds was going to fall apart. It was an inevitable conclusion. From what I can see, it appears far more players prefer to run around in EotM for a few hours of fun and forget about the 24/7 design of WvW.

So if a few folks want to spend obscene amounts of gold for virtually no return, let me and laugh.

Speaking of community, let’s study some very popular scenarios of why a guild move out of a server.

A) [GOLD] is a guild that plays in server A. Server A is the strongest on it’s tier, always winning over servers B and C. [GOLD] is a dedicated group of 20 people that is able to easily wipe almost, if not all groups from the said matchup.
When server A get moved to the tier above, it face server D, E and/or F. [GOLD] is competent enough to defeat some groups from these server, but because these are much larger populated than B and C, server A cannot beat them.
Server A is stuck in this cicle because it cannot beat the servers on the tier above, and have a boring matchup against the tier below. If [GOLD] want to get to a new environment, they need to move out server A, since server A will never get out of that spot.
Hearing that [GOLD] want to leave server A, server Y offer to help with the transfer fee if [GOLD] move to their server. Server Y is on a higher tier where there are more groups to fights and it’s coverage is good enough to make a competitive matchup.

Is it wrong to [GOLD] to accept this offer? I personally don’t think so. You shouldn’t be where you don’t want to be…

B) [KILL] is a hardcore 15man guild group from server F. Server F usually lose the matchup on it’s tier with server D and E, only being able to beat server A when this one come up. It also have a easy time on the tier below against server B and C.
However since their server have a more casual approach, [KILL] often get upset with the players on server F, which end up in drama in map chat, server forum, server TS, etc…
Since server F is a toxic environment for [KILL] they want to move out. Knowing this, server Y make [KILL] the same offer they made to [GOLD].

Again, is it wrong? It’s unpleasant to play somewhere where you are constantly mocked or where it feels you’re the only one that actually want to play the game (the way you want at least). Do that make [KILL] a bad guild for accepting this offer? Again, I don’t see a issue…

If guilds move out of the servers they were, it’s a certainly that they had their reasons… It’s not like you can send money to someone and then that person is forced to transfer… Sometimes they want a new scene. Sometimes they don’t get along with the server community. Sometimes they just want easy wins (because, why not?). And if someone offered them gold to do somenthing they were already pondering to do, why wouldn’t they take it? It’s a win/win situation for the ones paying, and for the ones moving.

Whatever are the reasons, it’s their own decision to make the move, they are not forced to do so just because someone sent them gold.

I agree it’s not good for the over health of WvW but at the same time it’s the fault of both Anet and the players. We all know who the bandwagon server is that you’re speaking of and nothing can be done until Anet finds a way to equalize both population and coverage issues for all the servers. It’s sad and unfortunate that people/guilds are easily bought but you can’t do anything about sell-outs. Some people don’t have server pride or honor and some are just sick of the current nature of their WvW community.

For now just let said server move onto the next tier that they buy into. As it stands we’ve fought their guilds many times and for now the only thing they are really good at is PVD coverage. We’ve had plenty of good fights wiping them with only 25man’s and forcing them to come out of their keeps only to make them run back in to get on their siege, which for us is considered our competitive fun. Unfortunately competitive play for them is loosely based on actual fight-encounters.

Looking at the rankings I’m racking my brain trying to figure out what server your talking about. I’m noticing 2 that are placing where it seems they shouldn’t be.

Aside from that, I have no idea why anyone would transfer to a situation to drastically outnumber another server.

Talking to the Server buying guilds – Why would you possibly do that right now? What’s there to gain? Do you like running around on a WvW map when everything is your color? I havn’t been in WvW for over a month, is there a S3 coming that I’m not aware of?

Talking to guilds who are transferring – Why go to a server where you’ll clearly have nothing to do except stand around picking your nose in the starting area because you own everything on the map?

People baffle me sometimes; psychology of the brain.. trying to figure out why people do what they do when all reasonable (and rational) options for their actions are exhausted.

who cares where the guilds move. If you dun like how your server is doing and there is no way you wanna drop a tier – TRANSFER.

It can be done FREE OF CHARGE. Just play some dungeon games/sell T5 and T6 mats on TP. BAM, you get the gold you need, BAM you transfer to happier place.

Prysin.8542:

who cares where the guilds move. If you dun like how your server is doing and there is no way you wanna drop a tier – TRANSFER.

It can be done FREE OF CHARGE. Just play some dungeon games/sell T5 and T6 mats on TP. BAM, you get the gold you need, BAM you transfer to happier place.

Or… just maybe you can recruit inside your server to up your WvW numbers. Some people take the easy way out and don’t realize there are other options than just abandoning your server. But I won’t neglect to mention that Anet made it harder to recruit with the megaserver mess we’re currently in.

Exactly what I mean about no server pride/loyalty. To each their own.

What is Anet supposed to do? Lol the problem isn’t with Anet so don’t put the blame on them. Servers can only hold so many people and WvW can only have so many people in each borderland at a time.

goldenwing.8473:

Solomon, I would agree on principle, that some of those transfers are probably being funded via outside sources. However, there’s enough cash there coming in that it’s still reasonable to assume ANet is getting “their cut”.

Just to address this sub-discussion:

It costs GEMS to transfer, not gold. Every single gem(1) is bought with real money. Third party gold sellers cannot generate gems.

This means even if guilds are using third party gold merchants, then converting that gold to gems, Anet is still making money. Someone bought those gems using real money or they wouldn’t exist to trade for gold in the first place.

Suggesting Anet isn’t profiting from transfers is misleading.

~$22,000 sounds like a lot of money, but I know several people who have spent more on a game from the last MMO I played, and it’s not as popular as GW2. So don’t discount the existence of a few people with way too much money and not much brains. Not saying that’s what is happening, I don’t know, not from any of the servers affected. Just saying 20 grand isn’t as much to some people as it is to most of us.

(1) (well, okay, a few are generated through achievement rewards and such, but nearly all)

ReesesPBC.4603:

Prysin.8542:

who cares where the guilds move. If you dun like how your server is doing and there is no way you wanna drop a tier – TRANSFER.

It can be done FREE OF CHARGE. Just play some dungeon games/sell T5 and T6 mats on TP. BAM, you get the gold you need, BAM you transfer to happier place.

Or… just maybe you can recruit inside your server to up your WvW numbers. Some people take the easy way out and don’t realize there are other options than just abandoning your server. But I won’t neglect to mention that Anet made it harder to recruit with the megaserver mess we’re currently in.

Exactly what I mean about no server pride/loyalty. To each their own.

Well JQ looks like their hurting for numbers compared to the other 2 servers in T1, perhaps they should start pillaging Crystal Desert’s guilds as they seem to have an abundance in that tier.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Well JQ looks like their hurting for numbers compared to the other 2 servers in T1, perhaps they should start pillaging Crystal Desert’s guilds as they seem to have an abundance in that tier.

I’m assuming you’ve never seen the map queue blobs Jade Quarry rolls with during the SEA timezone.

DeadlySynz.3471:

ReesesPBC.4603:

Prysin.8542:

who cares where the guilds move. If you dun like how your server is doing and there is no way you wanna drop a tier – TRANSFER.

It can be done FREE OF CHARGE. Just play some dungeon games/sell T5 and T6 mats on TP. BAM, you get the gold you need, BAM you transfer to happier place.

Or… just maybe you can recruit inside your server to up your WvW numbers. Some people take the easy way out and don’t realize there are other options than just abandoning your server. But I won’t neglect to mention that Anet made it harder to recruit with the megaserver mess we’re currently in.

Exactly what I mean about no server pride/loyalty. To each their own.

Well JQ looks like their hurting for numbers compared to the other 2 servers in T1, perhaps they should start pillaging Crystal Desert’s guilds as they seem to have an abundance in that tier.

i dun mind that. The others servers in T4 has given up fighting us. I hate this tier, only transfered here cuz of a friend. And i’d rather go back to TC and enjoy the constant coverage, or Desolation in EU. Coverage = people. People = quality game time. Quality game time = fun.

That’s just a symptom of the issue. You can’t force guilds to stay on a server or go to less populated ones.

WvW is coverage dominated and stale. The game mode hasn’t really changed too much besides bloodlust, so as one would expect serious players are consolidating on the higher tiers to get fights and stuff espeically as populations shrink.

Until they can breath life into this mode via new maps and/or mechanics, the overall population will get smaller and eventually just leave behind the hardcore and the occasional karma train that comes out to play (although they may be heading to eotm anyways), meaning that people would continue to stack on servers that still have activity still.

And that’s another problem. If you play during off hours, you may want to move to somewhere where you won’t have to pvd all the time. And that as many can see is a spiral into the situation we’re getting.

Unless of course, you’ve learned to realize what PPT really is.

Thrashbarg.9820:

goldenwing.8473:

Solomon, I would agree on principle, that some of those transfers are probably being funded via outside sources. However, there’s enough cash there coming in that it’s still reasonable to assume ANet is getting “their cut”.

Just to address this sub-discussion:

It costs GEMS to transfer, not gold. Every single gem(1) is bought with real money. Third party gold sellers cannot generate gems.

This means even if guilds are using third party gold merchants, then converting that gold to gems, Anet is still making money. Someone bought those gems using real money or they wouldn’t exist to trade for gold in the first place.

Suggesting Anet isn’t profiting from transfers is misleading.

~$22,000 sounds like a lot of money, but I know several people who have spent more on a game from the last MMO I played, and it’s not as popular as GW2. So don’t discount the existence of a few people with way too much money and not much brains. Not saying that’s what is happening, I don’t know, not from any of the servers affected. Just saying 20 grand isn’t as much to some people as it is to most of us.

(1) (well, okay, a few are generated through achievement rewards and such, but nearly all)

Buying server buys X gold from third party site… They send X gold to guild being bought’s GM. Gm distributes to selected players to be converted to gems to cover transfer cost… not sure why that is hard to grasp…

and explain to me how exactly Anet makes money off of the exchange of gold to gems as no gem purchase is taking place…

DeadlySynz.3471:

Well JQ looks like their hurting for numbers compared to the other 2 servers in T1

That would be correct, we’re lucky to have a single queue 2 hrs after reset even. Our Sea is just an impressively well oiled machine. If anyone wishes to come up for some T1 fun, please do come over to JQ. Especially if you play during EU!

You can find more info on this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Jade-Quarry-Seeking-more-for-WvW

I’d like Anet to address the basic issue that the game population cannot support 24 worlds any longer in NA. I don’t know if it’s the same for the 27 EU worlds.

I wonder if players ever really thought to organize themselves.. collectively. It’d probably take a month or 2 to iron out, but how hard can it be to get a giant list going on here to see where the numbers fall?

Have a list showing:

Server Name:

Guild: Total Numbers
Time slot primarily played
Average guild run size
Average length of run

Create something like this and everyone can see where the numbers are needed. Take into consideration the 100 man limit on each map then place ourselves accordingly. Do this and we may find we’d have 3 fairly competitive tiers, where we actually may move up and down more frequently instead of staying one tier for weeks on end.

Just a thought as Anet won’t seem to do anything, so take it upon ourselves to balance the Tiers out.

Based on some discussions I’ve been following on my server (Borlis Pass), one problem (recruitment from PvE) is falling back to the rise of the Mega Server. It makes things difficult to recruit within the context of your own server.

One way out from the MegaServer conundrum is to embrace it whole heartedly, and replace the whole server-based WvW entirely with a “team” based model.

I’d let people set up self-selecting teams, independent of your home server, and limit total numbers who can join. You build “Teams” according to membership, who could be from any server.

I’d make sure team membership is first come/first serve, and not controlled by people already on the server. By default, the first teams would be from the current servers, and would not have a cap on membership.

I’d sweeten things up at the start by creating a few new “empty” teams which people could choose at the start to drive some excitement and move pieces around a bit. I’d cap the new teams at the eventual desired size. There might be some initial asymmetries, but I think over a fairly short time they would even out as the original larger servers change in composition, or people decide to move off to a new location.

By creating a team “cap”, separate from the population of whatever server you created your character on, you force teams by nature to start working more on building quality of your team, rather than trying to woo people over to your server – the cap keeps you from simply jumping to high-population servers.

First Come/First Serve also means that if you get frustrated by people and transfer out, by nature it will tend to be to “teams” which have less numbers/expertise, which will tend to even out both. It also presents the opportunity for groups of guilds who want to work together, to find teams with “head room” they can switch to.

I’d create additional new teams at intervals, possibly dissolving old ones that become too weak. It would be far from perfect, but could create some very interesting match ups, and excitement on the part of players.

Iainn MacFarlane/et. al., Borlis Pass

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

and explain to me how exactly Anet makes money off of the exchange of gold to gems as no gem purchase is taking place…

These gems you buy for gold are gems someone traded for gold. So someone bought these gems at one point and exchanged them for gold…

Jeknar.6184:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

and explain to me how exactly Anet makes money off of the exchange of gold to gems as no gem purchase is taking place…

These gems you buy for gold are gems someone traded for gold. So someone bought these gems at one point and exchanged them for gold…

TOLOLOLOLOLOL…. you ACTUALLY think there is some kind of limitation on digital currency supplied by Anet? lolololol IF that were the case then the exchange rate price wouldn’t have changed from 18s per 100 to its current 10g per 100… The only thing that is for sure is Anet manipulate the market value to maintain the gold sink… limited supply of digital currency… lol

The solution is not to force people to move. Lets want the players to play wvw

McWolfy.5924:

The solution is not to force people to move. Lets want the players to play wvw

To make that happen you got to to purge wvw for all of the elitist kneejerks that ruin the fun of everybody with their lack of respect, manners, skills and knowledge.

Then you need to make an incentive to play in smaller groups, so that the 5man group balance philosophy translate into wvw.

In the recent weeks and months several hard core WvWvW guilds moving from silver league to the TOP3 EU servers. This includes my server, Desolation, but it seems Kodash got the biggest transfers, despite being a German language server, because it is the only top server with 1000 gem price.

Clearly the gem price and server rating are the two main factor. Most players transfer up, not down. There are very few reasons to transfer onto servers outside the TOP5 in EU.

Internal struggles, lack of challenge or long queues can cause some guilds and players move to lower servers, but this movement isn’t happening much at all. Recently we haven’t had any queues on Desolation (EU Rank 2), except a short queue sometimes to EB and one of the borderlands. We are often enjoying the outnumbered “buff” even on our own borderland at prime time, not to mention the other maps. I can imagine the opposing servers have queues, judging from the size of their blobs. We are using skirmish tactics and split teams to counter these (and 24h7 coverage :-) ). Still we won last week by a large margin (against lower rank) and this week are coming 2nd.

I have heard from other players that the silver league is pretty much dead outside the prime time, only few people on the maps. And I can imagine bronze league is even deader. If this continues, the people who want to play WvWvW on variety of time zones are forced to either dig up their wallet or farm money to pay the transfer prices (1800 gems to almost all top servers in EU).

Arenanet could merge some servers, but they should inform that well in advance and offer transfers for those who are on affected servers. The worst idea is to allow free transfers to the TOP10 servers. Players should be given options, instead of forced to all migrate with some opposing server.

The decision to remove the match up related sub section of these forums was unwise. It is clearly one of the main reasons (besides the stagnated state of the GWEN meta and no major changes) for the demise of WvWvW. Players want to hear stories, create their own stories. Arenanet might even call them “unmoderated” part of the forums. Forums and a healthy developer feedback are vital for the community.

The mega servers made recruiting harder, but Arenanet could help this a bit by introducing in built WvWvW recruitment system to the game. It must be implemented so that player doesn’t need to press some special buttons to access it via a panel, but maybe so that when the player is loading up the WvWvW map (takes 10-20 seconds), it displays player paid (gold/gem price) ads by different guilds and servers. The prices for such short temporary ads shouldn’t be too high, like several hundred golds, but more like 10 gold, but short time gated (if you want it displayed longer, you need to pay more). This would create another money sink and way for Arenanet to make money via WvWvW, but at the same time they should increase the rewards for regular WvWvW (I mean not EotM, which is just a pve karma train).

IMHO, Anets refusal to address WvW is hurting their bottom line. For me, WvW is the endgame content. Except, it is stale, completely unbalanced, and a breeding ground for hackers and exploiters. I rarely play anymore for those very reasons.

If Anet really wants to make more money, they need a broad costumer base. For that, they need a game that is interesting over the long haul and fun for more than just the people who want to load servers or hack their way to victory.

Catering to the “cheaters” might seem profitable in the short term, but is detrimental in the long term. They tend to be the least loyal players….scurrying off to new releases at the drop of a hat. In the meantime, they chase off players who are looking for an honest and balanced game.

say guys, where should i transfer to for NA season 2 so that i will win easy peasy?

Zackie.8923:

say guys, where should i transfer to for NA season 2 so that i will win easy peasy?

To whichever server has developed time travel.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

you ACTUALLY think there is some kind of limitation on digital currency supplied by Anet?

When did I said that? I guess your rage about Devona beating you too hard is making you blind?

If there wasn’t a change of price based of how gems come and go out of the market, the price would be stable until Anet change it manually. The gem prices skyrocketed over the years but you can see that the prices keep going up and down (even if only slightly) over the course of the day. It’s not a entirely crescent line. That means that there are people selling their gems for gold. Gem that they likely didn’t bought with gold…