Guild Wars 2

From the start of Guild wars 2 WvW was a main feature that can hold players in game for a long time. We fought like 24 \ 7 for each point, grade and captured the fortress feared losing T3 Bay on the enemy map. But…eventually became clear that ANet is not going to develop this area of the game and let it go on the same threshing. SO what we have now?
- most of best WvW guilds leave tha game
- players stopped defending objects and just roll on the map from point to point taking each other T1 keeps and towers
- apotheosis of all this is the new map(EOTM), which is nothing more than a train from point to point where no one defence keeps…just farming…for farming
- old borderlands are half-empty. People playing only at EB and EOTM…because of better farming
- game lost the spirit of war and strategic battles
- and of course I must say about blobs and AOE everywhere in WvW like the main game style for profit…

In late March, will start the new season .. or League. But also we know that will go to release ESO without FPS drop in large battles and without AOE pew pew pew…
I just concerns about WvW future…
May be ANet have something really big for WvW for Spring release? or we will see the empty borderlands…

Frankly I wouldn’t worry about the impact of ESO until that game is actually played by a large population in real life setting for a while. All games seem good/full of potential when it is in beta stage. The problems only begin to show up when it is played extensively by a lot of people.

But i do agree ANET need to some big changes to the regular WvW (not EoTM) to give players incentive to play. Things get old without too much changes.

Seems like everyone OK with WvW today and it future (-_-)

I didn’t think anyone still called it WvWvW….that went out with beta surely?

A lot of people will leave for ESO. Some will be back. In any case, Anet’s doing a pretty good job of killing WvW with lack of attention towards the game mode — ESO isn’t the biggest problem.

Lord Kuru.3685:

A lot of people will leave for ESO. Some will be back. In any case, Anet’s doing a pretty good job of killing WvW with lack of attention towards the game mode — ESO isn’t the biggest problem.

That was I was trying to say…

chronometria.3708:

I didn’t think anyone still called it WvWvW….that went out with beta surely?

It is actually called WvW&W

Seigfried.5938:

chronometria.3708:

I didn’t think anyone still called it WvWvW….that went out with beta surely?

It is actually called WvW&W

Okay. Topic name changed.

Reslinal.2359:

Frankly I wouldn’t worry about the impact of ESO until that game is actually played by a large population in real life setting for a while. All games seem good/full of potential when it is in beta stage. The problems only begin to show up when it is played extensively by a lot of people.

But i do agree ANET need to some big changes to the regular WvW (not EoTM) to give players incentive to play. Things get old without too much changes.

^Agree with this…

A lot of people will buy ESO at release, I would be amazed if it did not sell 3 million+ at release, however the view I get on those buyers are:-

Around 60-70% are going to buy it, play the hell out of it for 1 month and then leave without subscribing. So just a one off purchase really for a months game time, possibly come back to it if in future ever comes free to play.

20-25% will subscribe for 3-6 months, exhaust the game then leave.

5-10% may subscribe long term.

So ESO’s version of WvW may not effect WvW in GW2 much beyond the 1st month really…

Honestly population has dropped across the board for us.

Two outmanned BL’s during NA prime isn’t uncommon for our server. I would guess that the servers below us are suffering as well.

I think that people are a combination of bored(after 2k+ hours in wvw) and sick of the siege wars.

The only servers that haven’t seen a drop are the top 3, and they are stacked.

Lower tiers go even lower populated and higher keep growing. I doubt they are gonna change anything since all they care is that they will get money from transfers.

WvW’s been the same since start so people get bored of it eventually.

As for Eotm, i think its only pretty looking map with champion farming u cant call that WvW. I cant say anyone that i know ingame that actually likes eotm. Maybe all this work could’ve been used to improve current maps and systems.

So please anet… Players want real content not masteries that imbalance the game or changing letters from A to B.

Casual audience (most money) > “Hardcore” audience (people who actually care)

As far as I’m concerned, the game is over. I’ve done just about everything in the game that holds any interest for me.
I’ve been playing a year, solid and for the last 9 months almost exclusively WvW except when I’ve literally been forced to do something else in order to keep playing WvW.

Now the game has become static with the defensive zerg-model preventing any tactical development. Biggest population wins – that’s it. EotM is more of the same taken one step further: no team play at all.

The developers steadfastly refuse to take on board any suggestions from the player-base. They have an agenda and they’re sticking to it.
I haven’t played now for two weeks and I would never have dreamed I would miss a reset night – but what’s the point?

I’ve pre-ordered my copy of TESO – just have to find something to do for the next 4 weeks.

Covis.6037:

WvW’s been the same since start so people get bored of it eventually.
As for Eotm, i think its only pretty looking map with champion farming u cant call that WvW. I cant say anyone that i know ingame that actually likes eotm. Maybe all this work could’ve been used to improve current maps and systems.

This is the biggest problem. ANet really done nothing for WvW. That’s why people will move to ESO because of “something new” when GW2 “the same from 2012”…
Where are FPS and Lag improvements?
Where are new type of siege?
Where are new tiers of defence upgrade?
Where are new mechanics on WvW borderlands?
Where are really something new?

Deathmond.7328:

Covis.6037:

WvW’s been the same since start so people get bored of it eventually.
As for Eotm, i think its only pretty looking map with champion farming u cant call that WvW. I cant say anyone that i know ingame that actually likes eotm. Maybe all this work could’ve been used to improve current maps and systems.

This is the biggest problem. ANet really done nothing for WvW. That’s why people will move to ESO because of “something new” when GW2 “the same from 2012”…
Where are FPS and Lag improvements?
Where are new type of siege?
Where are new tiers of defence upgrade?
Where are new mechanics on WvW borderlands?
Where are really something new?

yeah something new… like actually able to form a private or guild only squad without having people flock to the pin and form a zerg. C&S system upgrade is a good start for helping WvW….. but it appears only the players feel that way.

Contiguous.1345:

As far as I’m concerned, the game is over. I’ve done just about everything in the game that holds any interest for me.
I’ve been playing a year, solid and for the last 9 months almost exclusively WvW except when I’ve literally been forced to do something else in order to keep playing WvW.

Now the game has become static with the defensive zerg-model preventing any tactical development. Biggest population wins – that’s it. EotM is more of the same taken one step further: no team play at all.

The developers steadfastly refuse to take on board any suggestions from the player-base. They have an agenda and they’re sticking to it.
I haven’t played now for two weeks and I would never have dreamed I would miss a reset night – but what’s the point?

I’ve pre-ordered my copy of TESO – just have to find something to do for the next 4 weeks.

You might want to try Total War. They have a great series of games featuring tactical army play in historical campaigns. You start of as a nation, get to recruit armies and conquer foreign lands, and most importantly you get the chance to fight those battles on the field. It’s very refreshing to actually use tactics to crush your enemy in a 300 vs. 1200 fight, paying attention to troop movements, using the right units for attacks etc.

Watch it on youtube

People got tired of playing for PPT.

Muramasa.6487:

People got tired of playing for PPT.

People tired to play in game without new content to WvW and good balance patches…

Deathmond.7328:

Muramasa.6487:

People got tired of playing for PPT.

People tired to play in game without new content to WvW and good balance patches…

Its honestly a combination of both.

People are tired of playing the PPT game when it only benefits servers that have better coverage. I mean why upgrade anything during your primetime when you know its going to be flipped after everyone goes to bed and/or work?

Its basically a catch 22 though, they don’t upgrade, and the people that play during those off hours are always on the defensive and getting screwed by having things not upgraded. Playing on the defensive all the time sucks. So people stack on servers to alleviate this issue, meanwhile Tier 8 and below servers are screwed for WvW population.

Couple all of that with the fact that the only new things in WvW are things that make defense stronger and/or take away population from WvW.

Changes listed here(feel free to add on):

1. WXP skills. There are some cool offensive ones, but on the majority the AC and Treb skills defensively out weigh the offensive traits. So basically you are stuck with AC wars instead of guildwars and normal RvR pvp. Not to mention trebs have annoying supply draining cloud or the fact that they still do damage through the door….

2. EOTM, lets face it, EOTM has stolen some population. Maybe not as much as people think, but couple that with people leaving WvW, and its effects are huge.

edit(forgot one):
3. Traps!! Oh look another defensive mechanic!

Meglobob.8620:

Reslinal.2359:

Frankly I wouldn’t worry about the impact of ESO until that game is actually played by a large population in real life setting for a while. All games seem good/full of potential when it is in beta stage. The problems only begin to show up when it is played extensively by a lot of people.

But i do agree ANET need to some big changes to the regular WvW (not EoTM) to give players incentive to play. Things get old without too much changes.

^Agree with this…

A lot of people will buy ESO at release, I would be amazed if it did not sell 3 million+ at release, however the view I get on those buyers are:-

Around 60-70% are going to buy it, play the hell out of it for 1 month and then leave without subscribing. So just a one off purchase really for a months game time, possibly come back to it if in future ever comes free to play.

20-25% will subscribe for 3-6 months, exhaust the game then leave.

5-10% may subscribe long term.

So ESO’s version of WvW may not effect WvW in GW2 much beyond the 1st month really…

At first beta doing PvE only, I don’t think the $15 sub would justified but after the 2nd beta doing AvA for 2 days at level 15, I now consider pre-ordering and play for several months. TESO AvA is just that good to persuade me to change my stance.
And when players go away, they mostly go for good.

It won’t be long now, just like several of us warned several times, ANET only has to worry when people stop complaining….I see less and less complaining these days, and more of the “what the hell happened here” posts…..

The time is now to make some massive improvements, and none of those have to do with Living Story. (I personally would focus on balancing matches – Less coverage wars and making it less viable to just ball up with 80 people and zerg everything down) WvW is your end game, Living Story is something we do for money/skins.

TESO will be great for ANET because it might give them the competition they have lacked thus far.

sadly, WvW is dead and not growing/improving in any way. I honestly see a lot of people leaving for ESO. not me personally, but a lot of others.

King Amadaeus.8619:

It won’t be long now, just like several of us warned several times, ANET only has to worry when people stop complaining….I see less and less complaining these days, and more of the “what the hell happened here” posts…..

The time is now to make some massive improvements, and none of those have to do with Living Story. (I personally would focus on balancing matches – Less coverage wars and making it less viable to just ball up with 80 people and zerg everything down) WvW is your end game, Living Story is something we do for money/skins.

TESO will be great for ANET because it might give them the competition they have lacked thus far.

I used to tell my people at work that when a customer is complaining that means they still want to do business w/ you. People who quit, they just disappear. And they said nothing.

mistsim.2748:

sadly, WvW is dead and not growing/improving in any way. I honestly see a lot of people leaving for ESO. not me personally, but a lot of others.

A half of my guild will go for ESO launch and another half think about it…so my guild already dead in GW2…we were a big part of SFR WvW community…

Zerging alone in EotM is more fun than running with guild in ESO.

Junkpile.7439:

Zerging alone in EotM is more fun than running with guild in ESO.

Lol. You mean the two PvE’ers that are running in EoTM?

Ahmrill.7512:

yeah something new… like actually able to form a private or guild only squad without having people flock to the pin and form a zerg. C&S system upgrade is a good start for helping WvW….. but it appears only the players feel that way.

Hey Ahmrill – I don’t know if you’ve tried it, but in ESO you can form a large party of up to 24 people. Similar to the warbands we used to be in together in WAR…

Anet has left the WvW
Anet thinks the future of GW2 is in PVE
at least so it seems

WvW players only have one output: find another game
I like GW2, i love WvW but unchanged …. 20 months is much

etrigan.4213:

People are tired of playing the PPT game when it only benefits servers that have better coverage. I mean why upgrade anything during your primetime when you know its going to be flipped after everyone goes to bed and/or work?

Its basically a catch 22 though, they don’t upgrade, and the people that play during those off hours are always on the defensive and getting screwed by having things not upgraded. Playing on the defensive all the time sucks. So people stack on servers to alleviate this issue, meanwhile Tier 8 and below servers are screwed for WvW population.

Couple all of that with the fact that the only new things in WvW are things that make defense stronger and/or take away population from WvW.

Changes listed here(feel free to add on):

1. WXP skills. There are some cool offensive ones, but on the majority the AC and Treb skills defensively out weigh the offensive traits. So basically you are stuck with AC wars instead of guildwars and normal RvR pvp. Not to mention trebs have annoying supply draining cloud or the fact that they still do damage through the door….

2. EOTM, lets face it, EOTM has stolen some population. Maybe not as much as people think, but couple that with people leaving WvW, and its effects are huge.

edit(forgot one):
3. Traps!! Oh look another defensive mechanic!

The fact that golems are now tradeable has made golem rushes and omega golems in particular far more common in this game. That’s a huge bonus to attackers, and it especially hurts servers when they have less coverage. There is basically nothing that a handful of defenders can do against a small zerg that has omegas unless the attackers are too thick to clear the cannons (which I have seen a few times).

Suxen.8574:

Anet has left the WvW
Anet thinks the future of GW2 is in PVE
at least so it seems

WvW players only have one output: find another game
I like GW2, i love WvW but unchanged …. 20 months is much

I think it’s the pricing model. Anet need new punters every month to provide income. There’s no subscription and the gem shop doesn’t make much. They need to keep opening new markets to survive.

New players means PvE. It especially means Living Story so that newcomers don’t feel they’ve ‘missed it all’. For new punters actually wanting to PvP we have EotM with it’s zero learning curve.

Anet see no need to improve WvW, there’s no profit in it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

A lot of people will leave for ESO. Some will be back. In any case, Anet’s doing a pretty good job of killing WvW with lack of attention towards the game mode — ESO isn’t the biggest problem.

Í’ve played the ESO beta and watched a lot of other reviews but the game is a real disappointment. It’s not living up to the hype.

I think a lot of people are willing to sacrifice the polish, look, and combat system (of Gw2) for the type of open world pvp they are looking for in ESO. I guess it just matters on whether they stick or not.

I know many people I have talked to are waiting to see if it goes F2P/B2P.

Novalitus.7382:

Lord Kuru.3685:

A lot of people will leave for ESO. Some will be back. In any case, Anet’s doing a pretty good job of killing WvW with lack of attention towards the game mode — ESO isn’t the biggest problem.

Í’ve played the ESO beta and watched a lot of other reviews but the game is a real disappointment. It’s not living up to the hype.

Nothing ever lives up to hype. That’s by definition. But it doesn’t matter. The problem here is WvW in GW2. It’s gone from being an enjoyable PvP game to a static avoidance of combat.
If ESO offers a functioning combat system (and it does appear to) then I’ll happily hand over the required money-tokens.

Generally, gw2 is a PvE game, the lore/background story/etc etc support that. None of the stories has shown WvW having any impact on the overall story. WvW is nothing more than a extension of the game to satisfy the players needs to pk. In other words, WvW is not a integrated part of the overall plot.

It also because of that, many doesn’t have much interest to WvW as it has little to no impact to the overall progression. “So what we win WvW? So what we lose WvW?” It doesn’t matter, it won’t leave any impact to the story or progression and since it doesn’t impact anything, it is not important. If anyone need to do dungeons, no worries, you can do it through LFG. If anyone need to do living story, no worries, you can guest to other servers. If anyone need badges, no worries, you can obtain them through achievement chests and jumping puzzles. Want a fast match where you can be there from the start to the end, we have EOTM! So, what purpose does WvW serve? Some might say WvW buffs, seriously, those are a joke.

SkyShroud.2865:

Generally, gw2 is a PvE game, the lore/background story/etc etc support that. None of the stories has shown WvW having any impact on the overall story. WvW is nothing more than a extension of the game to satisfy the players needs to pk. In other words, WvW is not a integrated part of the overall plot.

It also because of that, many doesn’t have much interest to WvW as it has little to no impact to the overall progression. “So what we win WvW? So what we lose WvW?” It doesn’t matter, it won’t leave any impact to the story or progression and since it doesn’t impact anything, it is not important. If anyone need to do dungeons, no worries, you can do it through LFG. If anyone need to do living story, no worries, you can guest to other servers. If anyone need badges, no worries, you can obtain them through achievement chests and jumping puzzles. Want a fast match where you can be there from the start to the end, we have EOTM! So, what purpose does WvW serve? Some might say WvW buffs, seriously, those are a joke.

We are talking not about profit from play WvW. We are talking about fun and pvp with siege\tactic\strategy and victory! Guild wars 2 become mood for such type of players…We don`t enjoy it anymore!

The biggest issue I see is you have three camps, spvp, wvw, pve (some do all or a little of everything but most at least lean towards one). For the last couple months only one has seen any major development, even EoTM patched had more pve in it and well the addition of EoTM is something I have enjoyed it did very little for wvw as a whole.

splitting balance changes from LS updates leaves spvp/wvw players in a lurch, lack of features being added to spvp/wvw also doesn’t help, even a lack of dialogue about coming balance and features does nothing to hold our interests.

things like more about sigil and rune changes. Class changes, paths to the newest end game gear thru spvp/wvw. Just true open dialog would be nice. O yeah and a test server so we can test changes (keep LS off test to not ruin the story) to class and features would help too.

Deathmond.7328:

- old borderlands are half-empty. People playing only at EB and EOTM…because of better farming

was a queue last night for both JQBL and BGBL. dont know how they are “half Empty” even have queues during the day time as well every now and then.

There is no WvW, only PvE.

Are you the Gem Store clerk?

Suxen.8574:

WvW players only have one output: find another game

is that even an option? Only game I can think of some type of mass fight PvP is Archeage and I dont even think NA is in Beta yet.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Suxen.8574:

WvW players only have one output: find another game

is that even an option? Only game I can think of some type of mass fight PvP is Archeage and I dont even think NA is in Beta yet.

by order of up coming release.

ESO-AvA? That’s the name for it I think.

WildStar- Warfronts (more like gvg then wvw but still large scale)

Archeage, I know it has large scale pvp but I don’t know much about it.

Camelot Unchained, this will have RvR. (Dec 2015 is a ways off thou)

I’m sure there are others I don’t know about.

Deathmond.7328:

We are talking not about profit from play WvW. We are talking about fun and pvp with siege\tactic\strategy and victory! Guild wars 2 become mood for such type of players…We don`t enjoy it anymore!

Just because you yourself playing guild wars 2 in that way doesn’t necessary means others will play the game in the same way. If you and the “we” people don’t enjoy it any more, well, too bad for you and the “we” people.

wvw is pretty empty lately. I took Garrison and Bay with 4 people this morning on SBI. We are not even a low tier match up. If I wanted I most likely could have taken hills too. The whole BL was a ghost town.

Mogar.9216:

wvw is pretty empty lately. I took Garrison and Bay with 4 people this morning on SBI. We are not even a low tier match up. If I wanted I most likely could have taken hills too. The whole BL was a ghost town.

SBI is almost dead as a WvW server. We went from Queues around Christmas to being outmanned during primetime during the week on EBG. I played for a couple of hours and watched DB zerg roll over us. Commanders are still trying, but when you are that badly outmanned there is nothing you can do.

I spend my weekend playing TESO BETA as well. I will be buy this game, but may wait a couple of months due to the amount of bugs and broken quest they need to fix.

Now it’s World vs. Scarlet.

I think re-working WvW match-up system into Red vs Blue vs Green with choosing campaign for some time(ESO style) will be good solution in future for dead servers(yes! this game has dead servers).
So I hope Anet thinking about “one server” for future…

GW2 is now a mature MMO and most players left are pretty hardcore MMO’rs. Games like ESO and Wildstar will siphon off quite a few of our better players and what is left will be a strong core of players who love GW2 warts and all. Some will stay, some will check in from time to time, others will move on forever and some will come in when big patches hit for a few days. This is the cycle of almost every MMO except the behemoth WoW. WoW will fall in similar fashion but it clearly has a much longer gameplay window.

Straegen.2938:

GW2 is now a mature MMO and most players left are pretty hardcore MMO’rs. Games like ESO and Wildstar will siphon off quite a few of our better players and what is left will be a strong core of players who love GW2 warts and all. Some will stay, some will check in from time to time, others will move on forever and some will come in when big patches hit for a few days. This is the cycle of almost every MMO except the behemoth WoW. WoW will fall in similar fashion but it clearly has a much longer gameplay window.

We’re not talking about GW2, we’re talking about WvW.

There’ll always be a steady supply of new punters for any game. GW2 is no different. Nor is WoW.
GW2’s pricing model demands new blood – it’s the only way to make significant revenue (The gem shop is just icing on the cake). Fact is, Anet have pretty well abandoned development of WvW – there’s no percentage in it for them.

The launch of ESO probably won’t affect GW2 too badly overall – it’s only another MMO – not even a particularly good one by reports.
BUT – if the PvP combat system lives up to even half the hype, it will be a serious rival for WvW at just the moment when most of us are up to ‘here’ with Anet.

If they actually listen to feed back from players instead of ignoring us, – well, the sky’s the limit. Anet will either have to completely rework WvW along the lines we’ve been begging for in order to revitalise it, or abandon it to the ghosts.
I predict it will be the latter.

Contiguous.1345:

We’re not talking about GW2, we’re talking about WvW.
Fact is, Anet have pretty well abandoned development of WvW – there’s no percentage in it for them.
If they actually listen to feed back from players instead of ignoring us, – well, the sky’s the limit. Anet will either have to completely rework WvW along the lines we’ve been begging for in order to revitalise it, or abandon it to the ghosts.
I predict it will be the latter.

Totally agree with you!

Oh the irony.

People here are bashing ESO, but the truth is, the only hope for a better WvW lies in ESOs AvA.

If ANet fails to adapt to the far superior new competitor in matters of WvW, they will also fail in keeping any WvW guilds interested.

It’s a chance for ANet to improve their game.

There are concerns/

1. ANet and the playerbase seem wide apart when it comes to WvWvW. Edge of the Mists is a good addition and a very interesting map, but it hurts WvWvW everywhere except tier 1.

2. Speaking of tier 1, the population has become so very top heavy. We’re only now starting to get higher transfer costs for WvW ranking, but that probably won’t even pan out that well. Everything outside of the top 6 is listless in WvWvW. EotM swallowed up the pugs and militias. Everyone else transferred to the top or quit the game.

3. A change to the scoring system must happen if the WvW mode wants to have continued health.

4. Leagues/Seasons/Tourneys have been bad for WvWvW. They create big metrics via people chasing achievements, but those populations didn’t remain in WvWvW. They left as soon as they filled out their score card, and they gained no greater knowledge of WvWvW other than “ITZ ZERGY”.

As for ESO, it’s got nice big maps and some cool siege warfare, but the combat is miles behind GW2 and it suffers heavily from skill lag within battles.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Suxen.8574:

WvW players only have one output: find another game

is that even an option? Only game I can think of some type of mass fight PvP is Archeage and I dont even think NA is in Beta yet.

Not sure EvE has a limit to amount of ships that can be in one system at a time but that is such a different kind of game it’s probably not worth mentioning.