Guild Wars 2

The duration of most conditions should be reduced by 1/2 with a hard cap on most of the damaging conditions of 5~ seconds or so. Expertise needs to go away, the damage of conditions should be increased to compensate for the duration reduction, more cleanses should exist and none of them should happen automatically and resistance should be removed from the game.

Make the game skill based again. Give conditions the ability to burst whilst removing their ability to hang around for 10~20s. Force players to react quickly instead of forcing them to watch their health bar deplete whilst being unable to do anything about it because they don’t have enough cleanses to outlast a trailblazer [profession].

My thoughts.

~ Kovu

I’m just going to add in here. I mostly roam. I’ve simply got a huge upgrade of burst damage going from Berserker Druid to Trailblazer/Viper Druid.

The increase in effectiveness was huge. Even the NPCs melted faster from my easy condi burst from a more tanky build then my full glass power build.

Same with chrono, and Reaper.

In my personal experience in small scale outside of Thieves. Condi is just a huge upgrade in survivability and killing power in the same kit. Plus the Condi builds gave me even more utilities to survive beyond the tanky but more damaging gear.

Until power is elevated to condi effectiveness in my opinion. I will continue to use the more effective and tanky condi builds. Why should I kitten myself farther. I’m already gimping myself by not running with the blob or with others.

This is just my experience tho.

KrHome.1920:

Current WvW state:

Marauder DH is broken because of huge discrepancy between block uptime and damage.

Marauder Warrior is broken because of huge discrepancy between damage negation and damage.

D/D Condi Thief is broken because of huge discrepancy between evade uptime and damage.

Dire Reaper is broken because of huge discrepancy between susatain and burst capability (a condi bunker that can burst like a full zerker (and spread that kitten to 5 other targets)).

Bunker Druid is broken because of huge discrepancy between mobility and damage (the pet is the problem).

Condi Mesmer (even full viper – I play one from time to time) is broken because of huge discrepancy between mobility, ridiculously low cooldowns (alacrity uptime) and design (dishes out conditions that punish movement and skill activation). Condi Rev shows how balancing should work as he overloads you with torment but is full melee and so can be fought (almost) standing still.

Most of these issues are fixed in sPvP (thief endurance gain nerfed hard, Deadly Chill works different, no tanky amulets, no Durability Rune, no burst sigils…).

Condis are not the problem. Condis are just a part of the bigger problem of PvE balancing in WvW.

Which is what many people, including several in this thread, have been stating for years: The problem lies in risk:reward and is almost entirely caused by gear.

Pre-HoT stat distributions and the removal of Dire gear and you end up with balanced gameplay for the most part with a few exceptions which could be pretty easily fixed via profession changes.

Kovu.7560:

The duration of most conditions should be reduced by 1/2 with a hard cap on most of the damaging conditions of 5~ seconds or so. Expertise needs to go away, the damage of conditions should be increased to compensate for the duration reduction, more cleanses should exist and none of them should happen automatically and resistance should be removed from the game.

Make the game skill based again. Give conditions the ability to burst whilst removing their ability to hang around for 10~20s. Force players to react quickly instead of forcing them to watch their health bar deplete whilst being unable to do anything about it because they don’t have enough cleanses to outlast a trailblazer [profession].

My thoughts.

~ Kovu

Given the aforementioned, this is a viable strategy. Still allows for some good ramp-up but duration boosts etc. throw a lot out of whack, especially in respects to cover conditions re-stacking.

babazhook.6805:

Power does MORE damage and people do not HAVE to invest in more stats. They do because it allows them to do MORE damage.

This is only true in builds running Power + Crit Chance + Ferocity and other modifiers. And I’d hope that a build running three offensive stats would out-damage a build running one. That just makes sense does it not?

Power alone, like a comparison of Dire vs Soldier’s, the dire spec will typically deal around three to six times as much damage at virtually every given point aside from (class-specific) first few hits or skills with high power coefficients.

As for the rest of the discussion, too many people are leaving out too many variables on both sides of the argument. Small things like toughness/armor values and opposing builds make a huge difference in how people need to prepare for power/condition play in general. Some of this even gets very matchup- and combo-specific so it’s pointless without diving into scenarios and working from there.

As of right now, there is definitely a huge balance problem in WvW with condition builds. The community at large, including many condition players, nearly unanimously agrees it’s a problem. It’s largely a problem from a raw stats perspective on the particularly big offenders.

I don’t really see the point in arguing condi v. power. Condi builds are more forgiving and cheesy, but even most power builds are total aids to play against. I’m not saying the two are equal, but there are outliers on both sides that make threads like these impossible.

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that, like others have said, the power creep has gone too far. There are too many stats. The game was much more balanced when each trait line was associated with certain stats (limiting how much damage defensive builds could do and vice versa) and we only had three stat gear. Obviously we can’t return to that point, but toning down some numbers and removing the plethora of defensive steroids in the game would go a long way.

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

ThomasC.1056:

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

Soldier’s and Dire are both “defensive” stat combos 2/3rds vit and toughness and 1 stat dedicated to power or condition damage. So why does 1 do so much more damage than the other? Because the power and condition damage builds are inherently unbalanced in the sense that power needs 3 stats where condition really only needs 1, maybe 2. The problem isn’t with soldier’s, it’s with condition damage. The only way to “fix” soldier’s to be on-par with Dire is adding a ton of precision and ferocity. Then it would be pretty OP and almost a no-brainer for many classes. Doesn’t that tell you something? It’s not soldier’s that’s the problem.

SWI.4127:

ThomasC.1056:

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

Soldier’s and Dire are both “defensive” stat combos 2/3rds vit and toughness and 1 stat dedicated to power or condition damage. So why does 1 do so much more damage than the other? Because the power and condition damage builds are inherently unbalanced in the sense that power needs 3 stats where condition really only needs 1, maybe 2. The problem isn’t with soldier’s, it’s with condition damage. The only way to “fix” soldier’s to be on-par with Dire is adding a ton of precision and ferocity. Then it would be pretty OP and almost a no-brainer for many classes. Doesn’t that tell you something? It’s not soldier’s that’s the problem.

Then why would that need that much precision and ferocity ? What would honestly change in the “power dmg scene” if suddenly all the marauder/zerk gear was turned into soldier ? (WvW talking here, not PvE wells of HP)

Answer is : longer fights. And that’s all. No possibility to kill an enemy in one single well done burst.

Theoretically, crits (and thus, ferocity stat) should be more the icing on the cake than the regular average way for power damage. I can only see two reasons why maximizing those three stats has become compulsory :

1. Baseline power is underperforming.
2. Players are too lazy and jaded to bother managing a long fight.

I won’t go here into the “best survivability = short fights” topic, because it’s more relevant in PvE than in WvW.

I don’t need to go to the “conditions” topic to talk about power damage underperforming. Yet I’m really bothered because, even if I’m positive there could be an issue, all that I read here reduces down to :

• I want to melt an enemy in a matter of a few seconds = I don’t want to fight, I just want to win fast and easy
• My toy doesn’t work well while my neighbour’s does, so please destroy his so that we both could be unhappy.

ThomasC.1056:

SWI.4127:

ThomasC.1056:

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

Soldier’s and Dire are both “defensive” stat combos 2/3rds vit and toughness and 1 stat dedicated to power or condition damage. So why does 1 do so much more damage than the other? Because the power and condition damage builds are inherently unbalanced in the sense that power needs 3 stats where condition really only needs 1, maybe 2. The problem isn’t with soldier’s, it’s with condition damage. The only way to “fix” soldier’s to be on-par with Dire is adding a ton of precision and ferocity. Then it would be pretty OP and almost a no-brainer for many classes. Doesn’t that tell you something? It’s not soldier’s that’s the problem.

Then why would that need that much precision and ferocity ? What would honestly change in the “power dmg scene” if suddenly all the marauder/zerk gear was turned into soldier ? (WvW talking here, not PvE wells of HP)

Answer is : longer fights. And that’s all. No possibility to kill an enemy in one single well done burst.

Theoretically, crits (and thus, ferocity stat) should be more the icing on the cake than the regular average way for power damage. I can only see two reasons why maximizing those three stats has become compulsory :

1. Baseline power is underperforming.
2. Players are too lazy and jaded to bother managing a long fight.

I won’t go here into the “best survivability = short fights” topic, because it’s more relevant in PvE than in WvW.

I don’t need to go to the “conditions” topic to talk about power damage underperforming. Yet I’m really bothered because, even if I’m positive there could be an issue, all that I read here reduces down to :

• I want to melt an enemy in a matter of a few seconds = I don’t want to fight, I just want to win fast and easy
• My toy doesn’t work well while my neighbour’s does, so please destroy his so that we both could be unhappy.

Longer fights isn’t a good thing, mate. Frankly, tankier kits are almost always more efficient in the context of PvP in this game. Have you forgotten the defensive amulets were all removed from sPvP because the game was too boring when literally every profession became unkillable because everyone was running a tank spec? Dire has been deemed so overpowered that even during the tank meta in sPvP ANet wouldn’t release its amulet there for the literal reason that the kit was too mathematically OP for the format.

Which is why people are upset. For one, the “killing fast and easy” derivation/claim you’ve made is BS. Not many people are here demanding everyone play full DPS. People usually enjoy that frame of mind more, but that’s really not the claim at large.
Dire/TB condi tanks aren’t actually killable by full tank builds, though, and full tank sustain kits aside from a very select few against a very select few opposing builds can’t out-sustain the dire players which they can do to power ones. It’s that here’s a kill-all tank setup via Dire/TB that nullifies literally every other stat combination in the entire game, regardless of how you want to play, and it shares the same two stats as another kit yet does astronomically more damage at literally zero expense elsewhere in one’s build, typically with gains. That’s not power players complaining. That’s literally everyone except condition players complaining, including a number of condition players who’d prefer other stat combinations and less cheesy so they can get respect for playing well rather than people writing them off as playing cheese.

Dire and TB are completely overpowered. Not much really to say. Other then you either beat em with much more higher skill and outplay them. Or you just join them and face roll as well.

ThomasC.1056:

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

You cannot be serious…….wtf lol
.
Those are DEFENSIVE sets. Soldiers does what it should, You have little dmg output with no crits/low crit dmg but high hp and armor.
Meanwhile in dire you have EVERYTHING, all the dmg you ever need AND all the tankiness in the game. Thats literally ZERO risk with high rewards and should NEVER exist.
The two sets are supposed to be relatively equal but are NOT even close to that.

ThomasC.1056:

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

So rather than have Dire gear removed or condi damage reworked into 3 offensive stats, you would instead have Soldier gear do the same as berserker currently does? I don’t think this game needs more power creep.

ThomasC.1056:

Vova.2640:

Turk.5460:

I don’t understand how people can justify arguing this:

Can you be effective in all Soldier’s stats? Realistically: no.

Can you be effective in all Dire stats? Proven and common knowledge: yes.

Is someone in Dire stats effective as someone in Berserker stats?
-In zergs: Yes, more effective than Berserker.
-In small scale: Yes, equally as effective, and in some situations, more effective.

So where is the justification that one person who is just as effective as another, gets to have ~10k more HP and ~1000 more toughness?

Best post in this thread.
Condis need rework/heavy nerfs, there can be no argument against that.

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

Yes toughness needs fixing, it should give more dmg mitigation especially vs condies.

Turk.5460:

ThomasC.1056:

So you’re quoting a post saying that soldier is not working and it leads you to the conclusion that condis needs to be fixed ?

To me, if soldier is not working, then soldier needs a fixing.

So rather than have Dire gear removed or condi damage reworked into 3 offensive stats, you would instead have Soldier gear do the same as berserker currently does? I don’t think this game needs more power creep.

I’m not saying that. For now, I’m only stating that power damage may be underperforming compared to conditions damage. But you’re raising an interesting point : suppose for one moment that baseline power was strongly buffed, would players switch from berserker/marauder to soldier ? My guess is no, because power creep isn’t only a stats and figure issue ; it’s also an issue of players wanting fights not to last.

Ragnarox.9601:

Yes toughness needs fixing, it should give more dmg mitigation especially vs condies.

I understand the idea, but I’d honestly rather have healing mitigate condition damage.

Vova.2640:

Those are DEFENSIVE sets. Soldiers does what it should, You have little dmg output with no crits/low crit dmg but high hp and armor.
Meanwhile in dire you have EVERYTHING, all the dmg you ever need AND all the tankiness in the game. Thats literally ZERO risk with high rewards and should NEVER exist.
The two sets are supposed to be relatively equal but are NOT even close to that.

Considering any warrior (or whatever) running dire or soldier would have the same HP and same armor, then soldier gives “all the tankines in the game”, doesn’t it ? So soldier should be the zero risk and low reward ? I’m more into thinking that the risk exists because the damage output may not be enough, so we’re back to “power is underperforming”.

DeceiverX.8361:

Longer fights isn’t a good thing, mate. Frankly, tankier kits are almost always more efficient in the context of PvP in this game. Have you forgotten the defensive amulets were all removed from sPvP because the game was too boring when literally every profession became unkillable because everyone was running a tank spec? Dire has been deemed so overpowered that even during the tank meta in sPvP ANet wouldn’t release its amulet there for the literal reason that the kit was too mathematically OP for the format.

I’m happy we agree on the fact that one of the issue’s root is fights are boring. I didn’t dare state it that plainly, but I’m sure that it’s one of a biggest factor making players not want to linger in a fight.
Now, about sPvP, even if I’m positive of what you’re saying, I don’t think it’d apply to WvW. sPvP is currently about holding points, which means that exceedingly tanky builds are undesirable. That’s why Dire and TB have been removed, alongside lots of others, like apothecary, just to quote one that isn’t talked about in WvW topics. Really tanky builds don’t have such a critical effect in WvW, because of the variety of roles there is.

DeceiverX.8361:

For one, the “killing fast and easy” derivation/claim you’ve made is BS. Not many people are here demanding everyone play full DPS. People usually enjoy that frame of mind more, but that’s really not the claim at large.

That statement also applies to condi users, but it was more aimed at glassy builds.

DeceiverX.8361:

Dire/TB condi tanks aren’t actually killable by full tank builds, though, and full tank sustain kits aside from a very select few against a very select few opposing builds can’t out-sustain the dire players which they can do to power ones.

I agree with that, but I think it’s more remote of stats than game mechanics. The main issue is power builds need to land their strikes to make damage. It’s not always easy because of damage mitigation, and engine issues like LoS, skills randomly failing etc. So, in the whole duration of a fight, the “damage time” is really diluted, which is why people try to do as much as possible, given it’s really harder to hit “as often as possible”.
Now, condition damage, in the opposite, ticks as long as the condition is here and not cleanse, which expands the damage time. This is why condition builds need to be tankier.
Now, as it has often been underlined, cleanses, food, some traits, and the usual dodges/blocks/invulns etc. are a good way to prevent conditions application. I recognize condi spam is really easy though.

ThomasC.1056:

Considering any warrior (or whatever) running dire or soldier would have the same HP and same armor, then soldier gives “all the tankines in the game”, doesn’t it ? So soldier should be the zero risk and low reward ? I’m more into thinking that the risk exists because the damage output may not be enough, so we’re back to “power is underperforming”.

No, Soldier should be low-risk, low-reward. Which is its current state.

Dire should also be low-risk, low-reward. Which is not its current state. It is currently low-risk, high reward.

We can’t make this any simpler.

Turk.5460:

ThomasC.1056:

Considering any warrior (or whatever) running dire or soldier would have the same HP and same armor, then soldier gives “all the tankines in the game”, doesn’t it ? So soldier should be the zero risk and low reward ? I’m more into thinking that the risk exists because the damage output may not be enough, so we’re back to “power is underperforming”.

No, Soldier should be low-risk, low-reward. Which is its current state.

Dire should also be low-risk, low-reward. Which is not its current state. It is currently low-risk, high reward.

We can’t make this any simpler.

Indeed ! That’s a very simple way to prove that the issue is not with Dire/TB, but with the game mechanics below power damage and condi damage.

I just hope that now it has been put that simple, people will cease to jump “Nurf Dire !” whenever the topic arises…

ThomasC.1056:

Indeed ! That’s a very simple way to prove that the issue is not with Dire/TB, but with the game mechanics below power damage and condi damage.

I just hope that now it has been put that simple, people will cease to jump “Nurf Dire !” whenever the topic arises…

There are currently two possible fixes for this to be remotely fair.

1: Re-work condition damage so it requires 3 offensive stats to maintain its current effectiveness.

2: Remove or re-work Dire/TB.

Which one do you think is the easier route, which given the choice, Anet would probably take?

Turk.5460:

ThomasC.1056:

Considering any warrior (or whatever) running dire or soldier would have the same HP and same armor, then soldier gives “all the tankines in the game”, doesn’t it ? So soldier should be the zero risk and low reward ? I’m more into thinking that the risk exists because the damage output may not be enough, so we’re back to “power is underperforming”.

No, Soldier should be low-risk, low-reward. Which is its current state.

Dire should also be low-risk, low-reward. Which is not its current state. It is currently low-risk, high reward.

We can’t make this any simpler.

It’s far from that simple. This kind of simple thinking is actually part of the problem. Not saying there aren’t any issues with certain condi builds, but the main problem lies with people not knowing how to fight condi builds. Short of condi thief I personally prefer fighting condi builds any day on my power shatter mes. Because power dmg, once applied, “sticks” with you. Conditions can be cleansed (praise inspiration^^).

And who are you to dictate what Dire or Soldier should be. Both are just pieces of equipment with certain stats. What a player/build makes of that is something else entirely. Why people remain to think in such inadequate categories, is beyond me.

TyPin.9860:

It’s far from that simple. This kind of simple thinking is actually part of the problem. Not saying there aren’t any issues with certain condi builds, but the main problem lies with people not knowing how to fight condi builds. Short of condi thief I personally prefer fighting condi builds any day on my power shatter mes. Because power dmg, once applied, “sticks” with you. Conditions can be cleansed (praise inspiration^^).

And who are you to dictate what Dire or Soldier should be. Both are just pieces of equipment with certain stats. What a player/build makes of that is something else entirely. Why people remain to think in such inadequate categories, is beyond me.

It’s like you didn’t even read the thread. Amazing.

TyPin.9860:

Turk.5460:

ThomasC.1056:

Considering any warrior (or whatever) running dire or soldier would have the same HP and same armor, then soldier gives “all the tankines in the game”, doesn’t it ? So soldier should be the zero risk and low reward ? I’m more into thinking that the risk exists because the damage output may not be enough, so we’re back to “power is underperforming”.

No, Soldier should be low-risk, low-reward. Which is its current state.

Dire should also be low-risk, low-reward. Which is not its current state. It is currently low-risk, high reward.

We can’t make this any simpler.

It’s far from that simple. This kind of simple thinking is actually part of the problem. Not saying there aren’t any issues with certain condi builds, but the main problem lies with people not knowing how to fight condi builds. Short of condi thief I personally prefer fighting condi builds any day on my power shatter mes. Because power dmg, once applied, “sticks” with you. Conditions can be cleansed (praise inspiration^^).

And who are you to dictate what Dire or Soldier should be. Both are just pieces of equipment with certain stats. What a player/build makes of that is something else entirely. Why people remain to think in such inadequate categories, is beyond me.

Most people are too one dimensional to see that Conditions are okay, but it is rather specific builds that are not. As well as being completely ignorant on how to fight Condition builds or how to counter them and instead just wanting them removed from the game.

To most people, Power is pure, fair and balanced, despite there being more Power builds that are overtuned than Condition.

Be all that as it may, WvW is not about small scale. It exists and it’s something many people are passionate about, but it is far more difficult to properly balance without breaking something elsewhere. Players need to accept that roaming/small group play is in a constant state of “unbalance” and the only way to survive is to adapt. Yes, there are lots of builds that are facerolly and OP but balancing those things won’t be a priority unless it effects the larger scale.

As is, condition builds underperform in organized fights. Against PUGs, it is relatively effective but not nearly enough to warrant any serious nerfs.

I can be blinded by my opinions just like anyone else but I see no solid evidence to change my thoughts on this matter. It’s always the same tired story of “tanky and can deal lots of damage”, “no possible way to cleanse it all” or “only needs one stat.”

I just hope that despite ANet’s iffy decisions in the past, they’re smart enough to understand that many of the people who complain about this issue aren’t being reasonable.

Roaming on my Trapper/Dire/TB Druid dealing as much sometimes more then my Scholar/Mar/Zerk Druid with more tank. Same with the Chrono, and Reaper. I don’t know how other classes condi plays so I won’t comment on them.

However there is nearly no reason to run power. On the classes above, because I would simply be gimping myself. Because Dire/TB is much stronger then soldier/zerker/mar gear. It is really that simple. So till condi/gear gets balanced to power/gear. I’ll continue running on broken tanky condi specs. That burst people down as if I’m in zerker gear minus all of the downsides.

I’m playing Condi Engi right now, which ALREADY requires 3 stats to be effective:

Condition Damage, Expertise, and Precision (needed to proc on-crit burns/bleeds from Incendiary Powder and Sharpshooter, which are a large part of its damage).

The build is already full glass and high-risk high-reward. It’s not a high sustain bruiser like most scrapper builds, and it’s far from OP. Changing condi in general to require another stat would be a straight nerf.

My suggestion would be to instead make other condi builds similarly reliant on precision for their damage. ie. move some guaranteed condi application from skills and traits to on-crit procs.

How about this:

For Condition damage to be effective it will need, both Condition Damage and Precision.

Condition Damage will offer a flat-damage tick. (Lower than it is now, per tick.)
Precision will behave just as it does for Power, allowing those Conditions to crit, dealing extra damage (Equal to what they tick for now.)

That way atleast Condition builds require two stats, one for damage and the other so that ticks like 5k+ are possible.

katniss.6735:

25 vuln 41 bleed 38 other is like the norm now with all the turbomancers in this mag matchup. It’s so dumb to be able to stack that high.

I think TL was running like 10 necros, a dh, and a mesmer the other day vs a mag ktrain. lol. skill.

one of my party members last night getting absolutely kitten d by “balanced condi repaers” FYI this is only 2 reapers, and he already tried to cleanse the conditions only for them to get reapplied instantly

KrHome.1920:

Current WvW state:

Marauder DH is broken because of huge discrepancy between block uptime and damage.

Marauder Warrior is broken because of huge discrepancy between damage negation and damage.

D/D Condi Thief is broken because of huge discrepancy between evade uptime and damage.

Dire Reaper is broken because of huge discrepancy between susatain and burst capability (a condi bunker that can burst like a full zerker (and spread that kitten to 5 other targets)).

Bunker Druid is broken because of huge discrepancy between mobility and damage (the pet is the problem).

Condi Mesmer (even full viper – I play one from time to time) is broken because of huge discrepancy between mobility, ridiculously low cooldowns (alacrity uptime) and design (dishes out conditions that punish movement and skill activation). Condi Rev shows how balancing should work as he overloads you with torment but is full melee and so can be fought (almost) standing still.

Most of these issues are fixed in sPvP (thief endurance gain nerfed hard, Deadly Chill works different, no tanky amulets, no Durability Rune, no burst sigils…).

Condis are not the problem. Condis are just a part of the bigger problem of PvE balancing in WvW.

^This 100%

Turk.5460:

TyPin.9860:

It’s far from that simple. This kind of simple thinking is actually part of the problem. Not saying there aren’t any issues with certain condi builds, but the main problem lies with people not knowing how to fight condi builds. Short of condi thief I personally prefer fighting condi builds any day on my power shatter mes. Because power dmg, once applied, “sticks” with you. Conditions can be cleansed (praise inspiration^^).

And who are you to dictate what Dire or Soldier should be. Both are just pieces of equipment with certain stats. What a player/build makes of that is something else entirely. Why people remain to think in such inadequate categories, is beyond me.

It’s like you didn’t even read the thread. Amazing.

Admittedly I only skimmed through it. But conditions were always the target of complaints for a wide variate of reasons, which, for the most part, were founded in ignorance of game mechanics. And I have always been a proponent of the gw2 condition concept despite rarely using condition dmg builds myself.

We can talk about specifics. Like why a certain condition and/or power build is unbalanced. For Mesmer a variety of skills/traits contribute to making condition shatter able to go full glass and still remain relatively safe, because you can be somewhat offensive and defensive at the same time (like all shatters causing big dmg, clones with condition application, condition application from stealth without stealth break, …). Your approach, however, in focusing on gear would impact not only Mesmers but all classes. I’d propose specific changes to traits and skills, which have a smaller impact on other classes and address core issues.

And there is only one valid core issue imo: The classic gw2 condition approach is somewhat being worked around by some builds, which can apply condition bursts resulting in burst dmg (within 2 or 3 ticks). Conditions, in my opinion, should outlast the opponents ability to outplay them and only become a problem over time. Its a problem when this is complimented by dmg spikes in a pure condition build. Although a counter argument to this could be that those spikes are generally slower than power dmg spikes and can often be negated by proper cleansing.

condis might be fine, but how this game is ment to be played in a stack & spam adding all the power creep, and boons.

laaaaaggggg…. how will ANet fix it? add more aoe spam and condis ticks cause “inovation”.