Guild Wars 2

To all the people in T7 that are terrified right now just…

Free transfers (which seemed to go heavily to HOD) put GOM off to a bad start this week, and when HOM started to look unbeatable, it seemed like the whole server just checked out. That’s part of what a weekly cycle does — when a team has no chance of winning, there’s a lot less motivation to play later in the week. It also doesn’t hurt that there was new PVE content to do as an alternative to such a miserable WvW week.

I imagine that we would have been busting our tails to catch NSP, though, if anyone had given warning that we’d wind up in T8 otherwise.

Funny how the devs disappear from posting once they start a kittenstorm

No offense intended, but why does it appear everyone is afraid to drop down to T8? It GoM has lost a bunch of people due to the transfers, it might turn into a good match for them. Who know’s really.

If they are dominate, they will move right back up in short order. I just don’t understand the extreme worrying over dropping down a tier. Prestige?

dr didnt exactly get out of t8 on their own merit… fc also abandoned our borders that week as a christmas present. we were able to hold on to it for pretty much as long as we wanted, but the people doing a lot of the heavy lifting back then got tired of it.

kain… definitely stomped out on their own.

this thread certainly exploded into a lot of indignant t7 responses. cmon yall, sf deserves a chance at not roflstomping someone for once.

From SF & I ENJOY the status quo. Don’t let the whiners rock the boat!!!

I have been on FC from the start and I can tell you that SF right now numbers easily what Kain and DR did before there push up. The reason Kain and DR were able to get out was that at the time FC had a much larger WvW base that left during that same time frame which when you go from fighting close matches to blowouts your scores will jump very high 100 points 70 points. I don’t know the numbers of the higher tiers but from what Kain and DR did I would say that SF will at least move up to tier 5 or 4 without much trouble. The only difference is that they won’t have more people jumping onto SF as free transfers are over so I don’t think they will move as high but at the very least 5 or 4.

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits thanks to massive free server transfers.

Fix’d

Rising Dusk.2408:

Gafgarion.3846:

Oh look, another scared NSP warrior. Can’t wait to scrape you off of my boots after you get zerged the kitten over by us!

You really shouldn’t try so hard to make your server look as bad as you do.

And who is the ignoramus assuming he is from our server? I know plenty of accounts people use to just stir up trouble on the forums. The real SF WvW players (with some exceptions, like our kick kitten fighter Filthy) debate things on the forums but we do not talk kitten like some that you have been seeing.

So keep on judging all of our server based on FORUM posts.

We are excited to finally get our chance to prove our mettle. We will meet our new foes in the battlefield and let what happens speak for us.

Catisa.6507:

Yet another t8 thread? Do you guys have a rule about starting 20 threads a day or something? Devona’s Rest managed to get out of t8, Kaineng got out of t8, if you want it bad enough earn it. Stop tickling your opponents and beat the living snot out of them.

Heres the deal a lot of bandwagoners before end of free transfers saw what was happening on Kainege and thought, “hey lets transfer” to the then current top tier 8 server stack it like they did on Kainege then race to t1 (atleast trying too) so we can chest thump some then free transfers ended and the glicko system kicked in now they are stuck and want to change the system by repeatedly making T8 threads, wanting resets, new ppt rules etc etc.

There are a couple different thoughts in this thread that I want to comment on.

1) SF will destroy or be destroyed by T7.

Can we PLEASE stop speculating about this in EVERY thread? There are plenty of threads for this already. Soon we will all know for real and lots of people will learn how wrong they are. There are a lot of overconfident people on both sides who are in for a reality check really soon.

2) GoM was or was not thrown under the bus.

It is completely clear that GoM was not intentionally thrown under the bus. Was GoM unintentionally thrown under the bus?

Probably yes. Why?

• Free transfers to only one server in T7
• Super Adventure Box (GoM is a glutton for special PvE content)
• Sudden artificial boost in T8 ratings

All of these things happened in the same week, not giving GoM time to recover. GoM does not “deserve” to go down. None of these issues has to do with our performance (except the SAB thing I guess, but Anet wants us to do SAB).

3) GoM is or is not angry about this.

Some people in GoM are angry about this, but surprisingly many (I’d even say most) of us are not. There are actually more NSP players in this thread jumping to our defense then GoM players. (This is really weirding me out, they must really like those party treats we left them in GoM Hills.)

The only thing we on GoM are really worried about is a washout. We hate washouts, even if we are winning. We love a good fight. That said, I’m hopeful that ET and FC will bring a good fight and we will have a interesting matchup.

Conclusion

I’m encouraged that Devon is trying to fix this, both in the short and long term. I’m interested in seeing how this plays out.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

The real SF WvW players (with some exceptions, like our kick kitten fighter Filthy) debate things on the forums but we do not talk kitten like some that you have been seeing.

What I mean by this is Filthy is just as good kicking kitten on map as he is in the forums. He is dangerous, check yo self!

scooby treat.8420:

I have been on FC from the start and I can tell you that SF right now numbers easily what Kain and DR did before there push up. The reason Kain and DR were able to get out was that at the time FC had a much larger WvW base that left during that same time frame which when you go from fighting close matches to blowouts your scores will jump very high 100 points 70 points. I don’t know the numbers of the higher tiers but from what Kain and DR did I would say that SF will at least move up to tier 5 or 4 without much trouble. The only difference is that they won’t have more people jumping onto SF as free transfers are over so I don’t think they will move as high but at the very least 5 or 4.

Guess where that WvW base went? NSP… I for one look forward to fighting SF as I don’t care much for GOM personally.. I don’t think it’s going to be a stomp from any side like everyone else seems to believe. SF will be surprised at what they are actually facing, as will NSP/HOD.

If this is the HoD army taking stuff on GoM bl as we speak then I really do feel bad for you when you guys go up against FC and ET

scooby treat.8420:

I have been on FC from the start and I can tell you that SF right now numbers easily what Kain and DR did before there push up.

before their push up but after the mass transfers?

I find it hard to believe that current SF numbers are anything like what Kaineng had after the migration. TBH, I don’t think all 6 of the bottom servers added up together have those kind of numbers/coverage.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

scooby treat.8420:

I have been on FC from the start and I can tell you that SF right now numbers easily what Kain and DR did before there push up.

before their push up but after the mass transfers?

I find it hard to believe that current SF numbers are anything like what Kaineng had after the migration. TBH, I don’t think all 6 of the bottom servers added up together have those kind of numbers/coverage.

Kain was triple what SF is. And Kain continued getting more and more transfers every week.

“Because SF, while very normally very active in WvW, is notorious for jumping head-first into new events as they’re released. So between the new Wintersday content and the holiday break, our maps were a ghost town for much of the week and our scoring was kitten.”

Sound familiar?

It’s how SF got the ball rolling on the decline to T8.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

scooby treat.8420:

I have been on FC from the start and I can tell you that SF right now numbers easily what Kain and DR did before there push up.

before their push up but after the mass transfers?

I find it hard to believe that current SF numbers are anything like what Kaineng had after the migration. TBH, I don’t think all 6 of the bottom servers added up together have those kind of numbers/coverage.

I would point out that we will, most likely, be getting a bunch of the bored players back into WvW when we move up (and if we do not move up this reset, hopefully they come back to get the rust off before we do move up). But then again, the other T7 servers will probably experience the same thing with the new kid on the block moving in.

I’m so excited! And I just can’t hide it!!

FilthyRat.4652:

To all the people in T7 that are terrified right now just…

Our biggest fear is that we will be playing PvDoor. All the fire from T8 gives us some hope. May the blood flow in rivers. And no mercy will be shown to green arrow Arenanet mesmers… well, unless they are on our server… in which case we shall defend them to our last breath.

I’m going to LOL so hard if SF loses in T7. Then I’m going to cry for a very long time.

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits thanks to massive free server transfers.

Fix’d

And SF didn’t get transfers either after hitting t8.

There’s no denying that we benefited from free server transfers too. We totally did just before free server transfers went away. But we didn’t get NEARLY as many as Kain or DR.

My point wasn’t to argue that Kain and DR got free server transfers and we didn’t. That’s most certainly not the case. My point was to argue that Kain and DR got out of T8 on their own steam is absolutely absurd.

Also, being someone who majored in history in college and focused on events in history that are constantly at the receiving end of revisionist “historians,” I don’t take kindly to your revisionist history jab.

You’ll get a good fight, GoM. You’re coming down to ET and FC populations that are pretty energized and ready for some fresh competition. It’ll be fun. And at the end of the day, we’ll get to see if the speculation that we can roll with a T7 server actually has any merit or not.

silverfire.2547:

“Because SF, while very normally very active in WvW, is notorious for jumping head-first into new events as they’re released. So between the new Wintersday content and the holiday break, our maps were a ghost town for much of the week and our scoring was kitten.”

Sound familiar?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Because GoM, while very normally very active in WvW, is notorious for jumping head-first into new events as they’re released. So between the new adventure box and spring break, our maps were a ghost town for much of the week and our scoring was kitten.

It’s how SF got the ball rolling on the decline to T8.

I knew that sounded awfully familiar silver!

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits thanks to massive free server transfers.

Fix’d

And SF didn’t get transfers either after hitting t8.

There’s no denying that we benefited from free server transfers too. We totally did just before free server transfers went away. But we didn’t get NEARLY as many as Kain or DR.

My point wasn’t to argue that Kain and DR got free server transfers and we didn’t. That’s most certainly not the case. My point was to argue that Kain and DR got out of T8 on their own steam is absolutely absurd.

Also, being someone who majored in history in college and focused on events in history that are constantly at the receiving end of revisionist “historians,” I don’t take kindly to your revisionist history jab.

Then be careful glossing over relevant facts.

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits thanks to massive free server transfers.

Fix’d

And SF didn’t get transfers either after hitting t8.

I don’t think we can compare the transfers that SF received to the transfers that DR and Kaineng received. All three servers received transfers on an individual level, and those are very hard, if not impossible for anyone but ANet to accurately quantify. However, it is a fact that DR and Kaineng received sizable to large, organized guilds (PRO for DR, War Machine and Rethesis for Kaineng), while SF did not. Those are significant boosts, as evidenced by the fact that, before WM dropped, the scores that FC/ET posted against Kaineng were similar to the scores that they’ve been posting against SF. However, after WM and Rethesis dropped, FC and ET didn’t even post 100k. When it comes to transfers, SF hasn’t received anything even remotely close what those guilds did for Kaineng and DR, but we’re stuck competing against ratings that were shaped by those guild transfers.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Manoa.5897:

“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, make me a match,
“Find me a find, catch me a catch
“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, look through your book,
“And make me a perfect match”

LOL. A Fiddler on the Roof reference? In GW2?? And it applies to WvW?

You just made my day, thank you!!

Shout out to Manoa, looks like the Matchmaker finally woke up!

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits thanks to massive free server transfers.

Fix’d

And SF didn’t get transfers either after hitting t8.

There’s no denying that we benefited from free server transfers too. We totally did just before free server transfers went away. But we didn’t get NEARLY as many as Kain or DR.

My point wasn’t to argue that Kain and DR got free server transfers and we didn’t. That’s most certainly not the case. My point was to argue that Kain and DR got out of T8 on their own steam is absolutely absurd.

Also, being someone who majored in history in college and focused on events in history that are constantly at the receiving end of revisionist “historians,” I don’t take kindly to your revisionist history jab.

Then be careful glossing over relevant facts.

There was no glossing over. The point was that Kain and DR did NOT get out of T8 on their steam. Nothing more. SF benefiting from free server transfers (and not getting nearly enough to pop them out of T8 like Kain and DR) is not a relevant fact for that specific point.

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Manoa.5897:

“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, make me a match,
“Find me a find, catch me a catch
“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, look through your book,
“And make me a perfect match”

LOL. A Fiddler on the Roof reference? In GW2?? And it applies to WvW?

You just made my day, thank you!!

Shout out to Manoa, looks like the Matchmaker finally woke up!

:D Thanks Cantur! That Fiddler post of mine is probably my most fav one I’ve ever posted on these forums.

airstu.2579:

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Uh…yeah, we know! We should have been able to get out of T8 on our own steam a LONG time ago (nearly 1/4 of a year of roflstomping domination is simply too long). But due to how Glicko works and how skewed the ratings were in T8, there was simply zero chance of us getting out of T8 on our own steam without some sort of adjustment to the ratings or how they are calculated. This intervention is something that all of T8 has been asking for and it’s refreshing to see SOMETHING is being done to help out the Glicko Ghetto.

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Uh…yeah, we know! We should have been able to get out of T8 on our own steam a LONG time ago (1/4 of a year of domination is simply too long). But due to how Glicko works and how skewed the ratings were in T8, there was simply zero chance of us getting out of T8 on our own steam without some sort of adjustment to the ratings.

So why should T8 NA get special treatment? Why not a universally applied answer? As an academic and a historian you should know that giving a minority special treatment is not a solution.

DevonCarver.5370:

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Uh…yeah, we know! We should have been able to get out of T8 on our own steam a LONG time ago (1/4 of a year of domination is simply too long). But due to how Glicko works and how skewed the ratings were in T8, there was simply zero chance of us getting out of T8 on our own steam without some sort of adjustment to the ratings.

So why should T8 NA get special treatment? Why not a universally applied answer? As an academic and a historian you should know that giving a minority special treatment is not a solution.

The biggest reason is that the solution is to attempt to break up what has become an ossified matchup. It is hardly a solution to the underlying problem, but it will hopefully put some variety back into the T8 and T7 matchups in NA which were sorely lacking in that because of the rating system we use for matchups.

Thanks Devon! I am sure that if everyone else had to deal with the stagnation that T8 has been through they would understand what is going on.

DevonCarver.5370:

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Uh…yeah, we know! We should have been able to get out of T8 on our own steam a LONG time ago (1/4 of a year of domination is simply too long). But due to how Glicko works and how skewed the ratings were in T8, there was simply zero chance of us getting out of T8 on our own steam without some sort of adjustment to the ratings.

So why should T8 NA get special treatment? Why not a universally applied answer? As an academic and a historian you should know that giving a minority special treatment is not a solution.

The biggest reason is that the solution is to attempt to break up what has become an ossified matchup. It is hardly a solution to the underlying problem, but it will hopefully put some variety back into the T8 and T7 matchups in NA which were sorely lacking in that because of the rating system we use for matchups.

T8 may be ossified, I think we can agree upon that. 2 points need addressing though:
1. T7 was the most balanced and new match-up in all of WvW and I think its safe to say, every server in the matchup was experiencing a revitalization of the WvW community.
2. You changed the game and didn’t let anyone know until it was too late. You want spiced up wvw? Give t7 one weeks notice that SF is taking the loser’s spot and stand back and watch the fireworks.

AS far as numbers go these were take 15 mins apart…as you can see HoD is pretty even in PPT and these were the numbers in SM where pretty much all the fighting going on. And there were even more Fergs coming through first gate. i had to get 3 screenies of HoD to try to show the majority of the numbers (top 3)

T7 was not balanced. 80k difference between 1st and 3rd? Only T3 had a larger difference…

On topic: Can’t wait to find some new people to fight. That’s what this is all about, putting 3 servers with the same numbers so that zerg of 100 doesn’t attack 1 tower would be nice.

airstu.2579:

T8 may be ossified, I think we can agree upon that. 2 points need addressing though:
1. T7 was the most balanced and new match-up in all of WvW and I think its safe to say, every server in the matchup was experiencing a revitalization of the WvW community.
2. You changed the game and didn’t let anyone know until it was too late. You want spiced up wvw? Give t7 one weeks notice that SF is taking the loser’s spot and stand back and watch the fireworks.

1. Not anymore with transfers shifting things around (see point #2)
2. Same thing happened with free transfers last week. All we got in terms of warning was Hey guys, people are free to mess with the ratings gains everyone’s been working so hard towards for the last month starting tomorrow. Enjoy!

Hey Devon how about FINALLY answering the op question (to which you partially replied) on how many points yaks are actually worth? You seem to have gotten lost in here on this thread so I’ll show you where it was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Clarification-needed-please-Dolyak-points/first

Or do we need to make a new thread every day for months on end to get an answer/solution which seems to me how this t7/t8 fiasco here has been partially solved albeit half hazardly?

airstu.2579:

Manoa.5897:

airstu.2579:

SF isnt getting out on their own steam either. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deus+ex+machina

Uh…yeah, we know! We should have been able to get out of T8 on our own steam a LONG time ago (1/4 of a year of domination is simply too long). But due to how Glicko works and how skewed the ratings were in T8, there was simply zero chance of us getting out of T8 on our own steam without some sort of adjustment to the ratings.

So why should T8 NA get special treatment? Why not a universally applied answer? As an academic and a historian you should know that giving a minority special treatment is not a solution.

Does any other tier have to post average margins of 200k for 11 weeks straight and still see no progression in sight? No, no they don’t. The ratings in T8 have been driven down so ridiculously low that it’s now virtually impossible to progress from T8 to T7 anymore. This so-called “special treatment” helps get the T8 ratings back within a reasonable variance of the T7 ratings and levels out the broken Glicko playing field for the most severely impacted by the Glicko math so the T8 servers don’t have to put in FAR more effort to progress than higher level tiers.

It sounds like from Devon’s posts that the other tiers are NOT being ignored. Today’s adjustment is just to give the most impacted tier a little help until a more permanent solution for the entire ladder can be found.

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits.

I heard Fox News was hiring!

silverfire.2547:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits.

I heard Fox News was hiring!

Last time I checked, they are no longer in T8. And if my knowledge of calendars is correct, they got out before today. So, yes, they got out on their own merits.

silverfire.2547:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits.

I heard Fox News was hiring!

LOL Silver, awesome!

LilMcGinley.3890:

T7 was not balanced. 80k difference between 1st and 3rd? Only T3 had a larger difference…

On topic: Can’t wait to find some new people to fight. That’s what this is all about, putting 3 servers with the same numbers so that zerg of 100 doesn’t attack 1 tower would be nice.

Was talking about the PPT at the time those were taken. And those were mainly the numbers of HoD which is in the lead overall

airstu.2579:

silverfire.2547:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits.

I heard Fox News was hiring!

Last time I checked, they are no longer in T8. And if my knowledge of calendars is correct, they got out before today. So, yes, they got out on their own merits.

Oh I guess I must have read the forums completely incorrectly those past few months. NEO Alliance and War Machine must have already been on Kaineng in the months before they started moving up the ranks. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

silverfire.2547:

airstu.2579:

silverfire.2547:

airstu.2579:

DR and Kain actually got out of T8 on their own merits.

I heard Fox News was hiring!

Last time I checked, they are no longer in T8. And if my knowledge of calendars is correct, they got out before today. So, yes, they got out on their own merits.

Oh I guess I must have read the forums completely incorrectly those past few months. NEO Alliance and War Machine must have already been on Kaineng in the months before they started moving up the ranks. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

Somehow I missed that as well!

FilthyRat.4652:

Was talking about the PPT at the time those were taken. And those were mainly the numbers of HoD which is in the lead overall

You took those screenshots 3 hours before reset, at a time where the scores are pretty set. Most players don’t bother doing anything meaningful during that time.

If you want to see how many each side has, just browse through the screenshots in the T7 thread.

I have taken screenshot from all sorts of times and on many different days. I have looked at the screen shots on your forums, we will see.

Yay! Finally! As an SF Native (been here since launch!) I’m very excited to see this change. I’m a little sad by the fact that we need DEVine intervention to crawl out of the T8 bracket, but in all honesty, we kittening needed it. The Glicko system needs to be adjusted so that 13-week matchups like this don’t happen again.

I would honestly be a lot happier if the longterm solution was implemented instead of having to have manual adjustments to the rankings happen immediately, but then again, I would’ve preferred this change several weeks ago.

I might’ve missed it, but did the Devs say anywhere what actual changes they will be making? My assumption is they will manually inflate ET/FC’s server score so that SF climbs out of T8 on its own, which is the only way I would handle this situation…. Which is partly how I would envision a long term solution as well (Lifetime Score Floor/Ceiling).

To GoM: Welcome to what happened to SF months ago… One bad week and you get trapped in T8 h-e-double-hockey-sticks. It’s actually not so bad, just don’t let FC/ET smack you down the first week or so and we’ll push someone else down to your tier :P

To NSP/HoD: We comin’ for you >:D

To FC/ET: So long and thanks for all the loot! (I sincerely hope you guys keep building up steam like you have been the past week! <3, no hard feelings here from this commander)

To ANet: While I am upset at how long all this has taken, you continue to do good things and polish it as you go along, I look forward to seeing where this all goes and what kind of polish you lay down for the ranking system.

To the Haters: Less Q.Q moar PewPew!

I’m very excited to see a different matchup in WvW.

DevonCarver.5370:

Unfortunately, there could be many reasons that those servers are doing poorly, including that people stay away because they are doing poorly. Creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is exactly one of the reasons a change-up is needed. There were weeks of matchups where I could tell exactly that ET/FC had just given up and let us roll them over harder than usual (See Week 10 and Week 07 http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/45/#history ) and the same was happening to SF as well. There was little to no motivation to play WvW if we were not going to move anywhere. After a few weeks in T8, SF started to drop off a bit in WvW motivation and organization because we lost hope of being able to go anywhere.

So haters and whiners, cry all you want over this change, but this NEEDED to happen. ANet has probably lost a bunch of players because of the stagnation in T8, the T8 servers have lost a lot of players because of the stagnation (I know of quite a large group of friends who left SF for SoR and TC because of it). It’s completely unfair to the servers in T8 and I applaud ANet finally getting their kittens in a basket to fix this.

As a resident of ET, alot of us are happy SF will get this opportunity to move up and show how they can shine (or fall) in T7. With the new environment and actual need to give it their best to climb up, they may show that they are actually ready for T6 if T7 can rouse interest in the people who got bored of “no light at the end of the tunnel” and stopped participating until a rally call is put out.

GL SF!!

FilthyRat.4652:

LilMcGinley.3890:

T7 was not balanced. 80k difference between 1st and 3rd? Only T3 had a larger difference…

On topic: Can’t wait to find some new people to fight. That’s what this is all about, putting 3 servers with the same numbers so that zerg of 100 doesn’t attack 1 tower would be nice.

Was talking about the PPT at the time those were taken. And those were mainly the numbers of HoD which is in the lead overall

PPT =/= balance. PPT is snapshot of how WvW is going at that point in time, looking at the overall score you can see that T7 is not very balanced.