Confusion is a condition punishes players for not paying attention. A modicum of skill can all but negate the effects of confusion, not to mention condition removal abilities.
That being said, cutting confusion damage by 50% has reduced build variety in WvW and effectively made the condition nigh useless. A pure confusion build that does nothing but stack condition damage now puts out pathetic damage.
The sPvP condition damage nerf was, and is, bad. As can be seen in sPvP, builds which highlight condition damage are non-existent. It is a very poor decision to give condition damage the same nerf as in sPvP.
It was, Roo. The issue there, is that Confusion is woven into the class’ mechanics at a pretty fundamental level. As such, they didn’t just crapcan Glamourbombers, they also smacked the crap outta Condition Mesmers, like what I run. (Or should say, ran – putzing about with a Phant build, for the nonce.)
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Because something is easy to avoid or easily countered is not cause to make it blatantly overpowered to compensate for it. Plus it was this way to begin with I do believe and was increased to help Mesmers in PvE leveling/dungeons moreso than WvW?
But anyway, the change was needed and warranted. Mesmers will have to move to another build if this is what ANet wants. If ANet decides they want Mesmers to have a legitimate condition build (which they should imo) the better solution would be to give mesmers access to something like burning as opposed to readjusting confusion.
what are you talking about? confusion is a supplement condition that is only suppose to help add to your attack, there is no such thing as a condition dmg build.
Because something is easy to avoid or easily countered is not cause to make it blatantly overpowered to compensate for it. Plus it was this way to begin with I do believe and was increased to help Mesmers in PvE leveling/dungeons moreso than WvW?
But anyway, the change was needed and warranted. Mesmers will have to move to another build if this is what ANet wants. If ANet decides they want Mesmers to have a legitimate condition build (which they should imo) the better solution would be to give mesmers access to something like burning as opposed to readjusting confusion.
if anet removes the vulnerability from the staff auto attack, that would be like increasing it by 50%!! the random stack of vulnerability is so awful, if you have staff for a condition dmg build, it wouldnt even matter if got like 5 stacks of vulnerabilty on them because you couldnt even do much dmg. I would be ok with them replacing vulnerability with something like blind, which might be too op, not sure, or removing it altogether.
I’m starting to suspect the goal is not to move mesmers away from condition builds but to move players away fro mesmers. They want more people to play warriors.
Shatter spec mesmer….that trait that causes all shatter skills to also cause confusion kinda pointless now. This nerf affected more than just mesmers who ran a full confusion build. I’ve been trying the trait that also causes f2 to grant retaliation but it in no way makes up for the damage lost.
Yeah what an idiotic nerf … I see people dying a lot to thiefs eles and aoes but certainly I don’t see zerg dying to mesmers. I don’t see commanders running away in fear saying “OMG there are 5 mesmers approaching us.. runnnnnn…..”.
And if this was done to appease the noobies, then lol. Noobies will become veterans and will find out that the game is shallower than it looks and leave.
I will not spend a single dollar more on Anet to register my protest.
We’ve been over this a million times in every thread QQ’ing about the nerf.
The problem with Confusion is not that it punishes bad players, but that it punishes good players. It makes them stop playing.
In an action MMO like GW2 you cannot have skills that make it so you can’t attack. This is why there is no long duration crowd control in the game.
Confusion shouldn’t have been in the sPvP or WvW side of the game in the first place. But Anet had the ideology of a “perfect game” where PvE and WvW were seamless, instead of one that worked in practice. Thankfully they are moving to the practical side of the ledger.
I was entirely willing to accept your argument and run with it (even though I disagreed and had a counter argument). But then you stated:
Confusion shouldn’t have been in the sPvP or WvW side of the game in the first place.
… and pretty much killed your entire argument with some insipid comment because the game doesn’t placate to your version of what you want things to be.
Not even worth continuing the argument with fragmented baseless logic like that.
Nope there’s nothing insipid about saying a mechanic like Confusion is bad for a PvP game.
Any mechanic that punishes you directly for using a skill has no place in one. It’s like the randomness in the Engineer skills. It looks great on paper, but when it comes to actual play, it drives people away from the class.
Retaliation is better because it punishes you directly for attacking a particular player, not for using your skills generally. The only real problem with Retaliation is in a zerg setting, where, if you are using AoE, you have less control over who you hit.
Confusion is in the category of long duration crowd control: retro MMO mechanic. (But hey! Maybe it will show up in Camelot Unchained…)
Thrumdi, Captain of The Tarnished Coastguard
—
The ultimate GW2 troll.
There would have been ways to really "fix" it instead of just nerfing it to the ground. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Confusion-1/first
ANet just didn’t want to. Worst thing is that it’s still completely useless in most PvE situations, especially compared to power shatter builds and that there has been absolutely no compensation whatsoever for breaking a major class mechanic. Engis still have access to other conditions, mesmers’ options are laughable.
We’ve been over this a million times in every thread QQ’ing about the nerf.
The problem with Confusion is not that it punishes bad players, but that it punishes good players. It makes them stop playing.
In an action MMO like GW2 you cannot have skills that make it so you can’t attack. This is why there is no long duration crowd control in the game.
Confusion shouldn’t have been in the sPvP or WvW side of the game in the first place. But Anet had the ideology of a “perfect game” where PvE and WvW were seamless, instead of one that worked in practice. Thankfully they are moving to the practical side of the ledger.
Are we playing the same game or have you really never been stun-locked to death?
Yep! They really dropped the ball on this one. I love how we lose 50% of our damage and Arrow Carts get an 80% dam increase.
Players: 0
Inanimate Objects: 1
Confusion has never killed me once. Not ever. Why? Because I pay attention to my conditions and don’t keep spamming 1. There was plenty of counter play to a mes confusion build. They gave up a lot of damage & defence to do this. It’s also very avoidable… shatters/bright pink beams were how it was spiked… just dodge those and you were fine… or don’t and just don’t attack (god knows they wouldn’t hurt you much with any other conditions).
Eng’s needed it nerfed though… they have plenty of other reliable means of killing with conditions… mesmers don’t. RIP condition mesmers
Arrowcarts were ok before the patch. They provided support for people fighting and added pressure. Small range increase would have been all that was really needed. Not catapult range + 80% damage + extra attacks which de-stealth/poision.
Nerfing confusion by 50% AND putting an ICD on Blinding Befuddlement is over the top, no matter who says what about it. Either put confusion back to 100% and change Blinding Befuddlement to something else entirely, or keep the ICD on Blinding Befuddlement and nerf confusion by 20-30%, depending on actual proper testing in WvW settings (= play with the numbers till the majority is satisfied, instead of your ctrl+c/ctrl+v KARATEEE CHOP nerf)
Seems like engineers and necros will be next on the condition spammer nerflist. They are the only 2 classes left that actually benefit from a condition damage build as opposed to direct damage or bunker.
Sorry for your misfortune, mesmers. There’s room for you over here on the “one viable build” bench with us elementalists. Might I suggest a set of soldier’s armors?
(there’s a thread somewhere with some math on it showing that confusion still scales better with condition damage builds than other conditions as long as you can get up more than 4 stacks, so maybe don’t throw out that condition build just yet, or is it that power-shatter still does more damage? because maybe that needs nerfing too, after all, you aren’t warriors or thieves, what business do you have doing damage?!)
Hats off to all the ones who stood before me, and taught a fool to ride.
Anet never nerfed pvp confusion, they doubled it in pve because mobs attack slower than players. Now they finally adjusted WvW confusion away from PvE.
Nerfing confusion by 50% AND putting an ICD on Blinding Befuddlement is over the top, no matter who says what about it. Either put confusion back to 100% and change Blinding Befuddlement to something else entirely, or keep the ICD on Blinding Befuddlement and nerf confusion by 20-30%, depending on actual proper testing in WvW settings (= play with the numbers till the majority is satisfied, instead of your ctrl+c/ctrl+v KARATEEE CHOP nerf)
Worst thing is, the trait that actually had to be balanced was confusing enchantments.
(there’s a thread somewhere with some math on it showing that confusion still scales better with condition damage builds than other conditions as long as you can get up more than 4 stacks, so maybe don’t throw out that condition build just yet, or is it that power-shatter still does more damage? because maybe that needs nerfing too, after all, you aren’t warriors or thieves, what business do you have doing damage?!)
I analyzed it elsewhere, but the math and logic used in that thread are both inaccurate. A stack of confusion now is roughly half as dangerous as a stack of bleeding.
you mean the skill is more in line with other classes now and you hve to try harder for those kills? Sounds rough… Everyone who wasn’t maining a Mesmer/engineer knew it was OP in wvw. The ones playin this chars knew it too, so don’t get all up in arms over it
you mean the skill is more in line with other classes now and you hve to try harder for those kills? Sounds rough… Everyone who wasn’t maining a Mesmer/engineer knew it was OP in wvw. The ones playin this chars knew it too, so don’t get all up in arms over it
and we also know stealth is OP, but guess what, Anet reverted 4 sec reveal to 3 sec just because they love thieves so much/ Biased much?
Sanctum of Rall
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
you mean the skill is more in line with other classes now and you hve to try harder for those kills? Sounds rough… Everyone who wasn’t maining a Mesmer/engineer knew it was OP in wvw. The ones playin this chars knew it too, so don’t get all up in arms over it
and we also know stealth is OP, but guess what, Anet reverted 4 sec reveal to 3 sec just because they love thieves so much/ Biased much?
Glamour mesmers were OP, now they are brought back to a balanced level.
Glamour mesmers were not OP at all, 10 glamour mesmers at once were OP. The issue was one of scaling. Killing an entire class was not necessary. Most WvW mesmers specialized into glamours because it was really the only way to get any AOE damage. Just about every other mesmer build is only for solo ganking (shatter) or single target (GS). Since WvW has evolved into bigger and bigger zergs, specializing into glamours came naturally. Unfortunately with the damage on confusion being so low now, mesmers are relegated as portal bots or to manning an arrow cart.
Glamour mesmers were OP, now they are brought back to a balanced level.
Glamour mesmers were not OP at all, 10 glamour mesmers at once were OP. The issue was one of scaling. Killing an entire class was not necessary. Most WvW mesmers specialized into glamours because it was really the only way to get any AOE damage. Just about every other mesmer build is only for solo ganking (shatter) or single target (GS). Since WvW has evolved into bigger and bigger zergs, specializing into glamours came naturally. Unfortunately with the damage on confusion being so low now, mesmers are relegated as portal bots or to manning an arrow cart.
yup and i’d say if u put 10 necros together, or 10 engis or hammerwarriors that are very coordinated, u could take down zergs.yes 10 glam mesmers were powerful, but alone it is different. people gotta realize a glam mesmers auto attack is like 213 in dmg and our power in total is like 1100 ….and glam skills have a major cooldown…i think even in spvp confusion needs to be readjusted as everyone there has to use either shatterer or phantasm build…
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
Well I kinda built my Engineer around Confusion so its more than just Mesmers that were affected.
I don’t know if 50% nerf was warranted or not and I guess only time will tell.
I do know that cutting the damage of something in half is pretty extreme and since Anet lacks test servers I think they could have started out with a 15-25% nerf and then waited a month to see.
Its not like Confusion was breaking gameplay so I think they could have afforded the time to adjust it more slowly.
;; waaaaah I have to use my skill now rather than add 1 condition that shuts down enemy unless they have condition removal up and it randomly removes that 1 condition I just applied, waaaaah, it doesnt matter in groups it can be applied faster than its removed waaaah, I want my 3k+ damage on dodge rolls back waaah change is back anet waaaah ;;. So many baddie babies in this game. A+ nerf, enjoy having to work for kills now.
Confusion is a condition punishes players for not paying attention. A modicum of skill can all but negate the effects of confusion, not to mention condition removal abilities.
That being said, cutting confusion damage by 50% has reduced build variety in WvW and effectively made the condition nigh useless. A pure confusion build that does nothing but stack condition damage now puts out pathetic damage.
The sPvP condition damage nerf was, and is, bad. As can be seen in sPvP, builds which highlight condition damage are non-existent. It is a very poor decision to give condition damage the same nerf as in sPvP.
ArenaNet needs to revert this change.
We’ve been over this a million times in every thread QQ’ing about the nerf.
The problem with Confusion is not that it punishes bad players, but that it punishes good players. It makes them stop playing.
In an action MMO like GW2 you cannot have skills that make it so you can’t attack. This is why there is no long duration crowd control in the game.
Confusion shouldn’t have been in the sPvP or WvW side of the game in the first place. But Anet had the ideology of a “perfect game” where PvE and WvW were seamless, instead of one that worked in practice. Thankfully they are moving to the practical side of the ledger.
Confusion is easily side-tracked by good players. Im guessing thats why you had such a hard time with it. Only dimwits get killed by confusion period. ANET is incompetent as a company. It has taken me a long while to realize that. What company cuts an abilities damage in half? HALF? They could at least try gradual nerfs but nope, ANET comes in with a chainsaw for a job requiring a scalpel.
Every class I have gotten to max level in this game has gotten ridiculous damage nerfs. Im sick of ANET and give up completely on GW2.
See you all in Elder Scrolls Online. That game is going to be fantastic.
Well I kinda built my Engineer around Confusion so its more than just Mesmers that were affected.
I don’t know if 50% nerf was warranted or not and I guess only time will tell.
I do know that cutting the damage of something in half is pretty extreme and since Anet lacks test servers I think they could have started out with a 15-25% nerf and then waited a month to see.
Its not like Confusion was breaking gameplay so I think they could have afforded the time to adjust it more slowly.
I have an eng as well as a mesmer. My eng still uses a condition build. I just use nades on him now instead of toolkit. Still works very very well.
My mesmer has no viable condition damage outside of confusion. To get confusion to work on a mesmer you had to give up quite a lot of offense and defence (unlike an eng). Cond eng did take a hit, but cond mesmers had their heads cut off.
;; waaaaah I have to use my skill now rather than add 1 condition that shuts down enemy unless they have condition removal up and it randomly removes that 1 condition I just applied, waaaaah, it doesnt matter in groups it can be applied faster than its removed waaaah, I want my 3k+ damage on dodge rolls back waaah change is back anet waaaah ;;. So many baddie babies in this game. A+ nerf, enjoy having to work for kills now.
Dude… I had np’s killing conditon mesmers as a full shatter mes. I had zero cond removal. Zip zero none. I also had np killing cond eng’s. If you avoid the condition bursts (which have obvious tells) you wouldn’t be totally shut down and still be able to dish out far more damage than you’re taking in.
Btw… I see that you play a guardian… and couldn’t handle conditions (wat). Yet the people that feel the confusion nerf was bad are the baddies in this situation? Lol… just… lol…
I pay attention. When I hit my #6 heal, half of my health goes away. God forbid I dodge roll. I’ll just stand there for 8 seconds and hope to god no one notices the glambomb confusion stacks on me.
Thats not overpowered. Completely balanced.
[VLK] – No one ever complains about bad Thieves, they die.
;; waaaaah I have to use my skill now rather than add 1 condition that shuts down enemy unless they have condition removal up and it randomly removes that 1 condition I just applied, waaaaah, it doesnt matter in groups it can be applied faster than its removed waaaah, I want my 3k+ damage on dodge rolls back waaah change is back anet waaaah ;;. So many baddie babies in this game. A+ nerf, enjoy having to work for kills now.
you have absolutely no clue what u are talking about. obviously u hate mesmers because u super nr 1 player that obviously is the best and most skilled player in the game got killed once so u assume that u dont need skill for glam right. let me guess your main is a thief?
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
I pay attention. When I hit my #6 heal, half of my health goes away. God forbid I dodge roll. I’ll just stand there for 8 seconds and hope to god no one notices the glambomb confusion stacks on me.
Thats not overpowered. Completely balanced.
And how much set up did they do to put all of those stacks on you… which you could have avoided? How many team mates did you have around you that could have cleansed off the confusion? How kittened would that confusion mesmer be after you/your team mates had done any of those things?
All i see is a bunch of mesmers bltching and moaning because they aren’t as OP as they used to be. Don’t worry guys, I as a nerfed thief with a more useless build, can understand your pain. And guess what? I’m still using it to kill. How awesome is that? Maybe you guys can still kill too. Just maybe, if the crying stops and you back to the drawing boards.
Remove the ability to impact Whole zergs with confusion
What anet did:
lowered damage…..
So now will take 2 mesmers to do what 1 did before while crippling 1VS1 capabilities of mesmers…while necros keeps laughing….
But it doesn t surprise me……they don t work on anything but PvP.
I was one of the best supporter of confusion nerf….they did it wrong as Always…
What i d like would be to change the name from monthly patch to monthly random NERFS
What balance did:
FOrced all eles to go BUNKER or change profession
Forced all mesmers to go zerker shatter or zerg.
They killed 5 builds 4 of wich perfectly fine….(some even UP).
P.S: at least proved the fact that people were killed in WWW by roaming balanced/zerker eles and not bunkers….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
I play Mesma as a main and I did think honest my condition grp spec was op , you don’t have a limit of target when you trait it right I could personal hit everyone for 2-3k each tick every 40 seconds Ofcourse you can remove the condition but you blinded at the same point the 5 sec cool down on blinds hurts me more to be honest ..
It shouldn’t stop people from playing Mesma condition build just alow them you switch out weapons for more cc e.g greatsword/ sceptor focus etc
But yeah the warrior buff are really nice might take mine out the closet
“A condition that punishes those that do not pay attention”
I have to agree and disagree with this idea.
This condition damages people that don’t know they have the condition. Or simply don’t have the condition removal to care.
before the patch the condition was punishing far too much after the player received 4 or more stacks. To the average player that person would die from that many stacks easily.
The confusion condition before the patch was the most powerful condition in the game.
The idea that you should not attack when u have this condition is idiotic. Simply because what would you do? It is not only offensive attacks that cause damage on use but defensive ones also. Any and all skills in fact!!!! So tell me what would you do when activating any skill would cause you 1-3k damage. Just sit there and do nothing?
The confusion condition is not just powerful because it causes damage. It can also stop the opponent from attacking if applied at a good low % of health.
With the new patch the confusion condition does a good amount of damage. Yet It will no longer destroy everyone with ease.
If people use there skills they will not be punished so brutally from it. Yet they will take a reasonable amount of damage for using their skills.
the 5 sec cool down on blinds hurts me more to be honest ..