Guild Wars 2

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit. but what i wanted to say wasAn believe me if I would say it only hits bad players, I’d be lying! It’s not true!My guild got destroyed when running into AVTR for the first time.They even made an epic video about it. and our guild has very skilled players in it. The thing is the surprise attack! We learned how to deal with glamour mesmers because we adjusted to the game. WE still would get destroyed if we weren’t ready for a glam attack.

Now, I know all of you who want to play the same way EVERY day. U see a mesmer and use the same combos over and over, because that’s how u ALWAYS kill mesmers. And now u run into a glamour mesmer and u do the same combo and u die instantly! So instead of adjusting you gameplay and being flexible, u want a nerf becaus eYOU want to play the same way all the time!

Yes, I destroy thieves if i’m ready, but there are times i get ganked by 1 and don’t expect it and yes I die to them aswell.

Same with a warrior that stunlocks me, but if i see the attack coming, he will run over my nullfield and then gets finished off with my bubble and hounds. If he gets too close I pull him away with temporal curtain.

Most of the time when I do my combo with bubble and nullfield and hounds and ports or veil, well guess what they don’t die to it, but my other abilities and the warriors and guardians in my guild will do the rest. Well and if 8 to 15 glamour mesmers get together and destroy a zerg, that is pretty fatal for u! NOT because confusion needs to be nerfed, NOT because of ANYTHING OP that should be nerfed, IT’S BECAUSE THIS GROUP IS VERY VERY COORDINATED and knows how to push. My own guild that doesn’t have any mesmers in it destroys zergs bigger than us easily. Befor AVTR and all the other guilds transfered over PRO would run around with 8 to 15 people and facing cd zergs of 20 to 25.

the thing is if multiple players of ANY class get together with the same attacks and builds and spam for example bleeding dmg or poison or anything else, it will be very very deadly for a zerg.not because an ability is to op its the group that is OP!

But i do agree that it was way op in spvp!with the amulets and stuff u get there confusion gets very op.

Confusion is fine in WvW and not nearly as valuable as it was in sPvP. I mean honestly I can’t remember the last time I actually died to confusion in WvW.

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

And there was much face-palming…

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile.

oh just realized u guys were talking about he confusion stacks ticks, I am talking about feedback bubble and the confusion ticks. The confusion ticks are high but n feedback reflects protjectiles back at u and as I have the trait that causes confusion every time u enter or exit a glamfield which still doesent cause dmg unless u attack. there is that scepter trait called Illusionary Counter is one of our many defense skills and clone summons. While channeling, if struck it summons a clone that cast Ether Bolt. You can also use it before the channeling is over to blind enemies in a line (this takes advantage of our Blinding Befuddlement trait). This trait is gonna cause quite big confusion dmg number! The feedback bubble reflects all projectiles and next to that u get confusion stacks that tick. what im talking about is feedback!

selan.8354:

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile. I dont know if u can crit yourslef but i get pretty high numbers but not up to 5000 by dodging. I don’t know but vs certain players like thieves i get crazy numbers though. Btw I love rare veggie pizzas that increase condition dmg and duration.;-) (uh-oh next thing the op wants to nerf.

lol really? You play a glamour Mesmer and you don’t even have a clue how it works.. Amazing..

Wow just wow………………………………..

Seige.4862:

Wow just wow………………………………..

Yeah, we may have different perspectives on the OP…

But wow. Just wow. xD

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

dank.3680:

selan.8354:

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile. I dont know if u can crit yourslef but i get pretty high numbers but not up to 5000 by dodging. I don’t know but vs certain players like thieves i get crazy numbers though. Btw I love rare veggie pizzas that increase condition dmg and duration.;-) (uh-oh next thing the op wants to nerf.

lol really? You play a glamour Mesmer and you don’t even have a clue how it works.. Amazing..

oh have u? have u seen the numbers u get with feedback? people using projectiles hit themself as it reflects them. the confuion ticks are pretty much different but it is still the same thing like hitting yourself the more u attack the more u hit yourself thats how it works. chaos armore, veil, portals, nullfield and feedback. but like i said condition dmg by itself doesent need to be nerfed as without any combo or the right trait it is nowhere near as effectife. btw ENglish is not my foirst language and it is really hard to explain this properly u have to try out a glamour build for yourself and then lets see.

Oozo.7856:

Dhampyr.2104:

To the OP (and supporters of a confusion nerf) – I would have no problem with this if ANet would give us another burn or reliable condition that YOU can’t control. Confusion is totally dependent on how bad the person you’re facing is. I’d much rather have predictable damage, tbh. I never, ever, have an issue with confusion.

Although… it is funny watching the bads melt. xD

Total BS. It’s not like you always have a condition removal available and the conditions can be reapplied faster than your condition removals come back up so you will often be in situations where you have heavy confusion stacks on you with no removal.

Don’t even pretend like that is not true. And, doing nothing is not always a viable option if the fight is not a 1v1. The one guys says… “just don’t attack” without recognizing that anything you do causes damage. One guy putting confusion on you while another is attacking you completely shuts you down when your condition removal is gone since you can not take offensive or defensive moves. And insisting that everyone run around with condition removal heavy builds just to counter this is stupid.

Go ahead and call me “bad” as part of your argument all you want, I’ll just call you people protecting the crutch that you are leaning on in return.

So give my auto attack bleeds. Or make it so that the scepter’s clones generate clones! Confusion has received nerfs. It used to be in the first auto attack on the Mesmer scepter now it is bye bye. You have gotten your wish it has been nerfed.

Sawnic.6795:

Kelo.4370:

Yes lets nerf the only source of condition damage Mesmer have. Seriously though if yer getting kitten by confusion then DONT ATTACK! Cleanse yourself or start using a skill/heal that does then go back to attacking. That or you know don’t fight a mesmer and someone else alone.

The entire subculture of staff Mesmers is facepalming.

Too bad the subculture of staff mesmers aren’t confusion mesmers. The staff has no direct confusion attack! Just an FYI. Only two weapons the Mesmer has directly cause confusion that is Scepter #3 and torch #5. Nowhere in a confusion build is a staff mentioned. :P

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

selan.8354:

dank.3680:

selan.8354:

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile. I dont know if u can crit yourslef but i get pretty high numbers but not up to 5000 by dodging. I don’t know but vs certain players like thieves i get crazy numbers though. Btw I love rare veggie pizzas that increase condition dmg and duration.;-) (uh-oh next thing the op wants to nerf.

lol really? You play a glamour Mesmer and you don’t even have a clue how it works.. Amazing..

oh have u? have u seen the numbers u get with feedback? people using projectiles hit themself as it reflects them. the confuion ticks are pretty much different but it is still the same thing like hitting yourself the more u attack the more u hit yourself thats how it works. chaos armore, veil, portals, nullfield and feedback. but like i said condition dmg by itself doesent need to be nerfed as without any combo or the right trait it is nowhere near as effectife. btw ENglish is not my foirst language and it is really hard to explain this properly u have to try out a glamour build for yourself and then lets see.

Sry that English wasn’t ur first language. But we’re not talking about reflecting projectiles, we’re talking about confusion. Hense all the “You have no idea what you’re talking about comments”.

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

YOU GET A BUMP! Culling is lame hate dying to invisazergs. But as a confusion Mesmer it requires more timing than most other Mesmer skills because if you open with confusion its insta cleansed But on a daggerstorm thief its like ohhh sheeeet son you dun goofed.

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Don’t worry. At one time, Dynnen’s heart was filled with rage and anger towards me as well. It has something to do with having a red name over your head.

An actual quote from a few nights ago: “I’m going to rip that kitten guy’s throat out”

And then, he did… thought I was playing Age of Conan for a second there.

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

dank.3680:

selan.8354:

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile. I dont know if u can crit yourslef but i get pretty high numbers but not up to 5000 by dodging. I don’t know but vs certain players like thieves i get crazy numbers though. Btw I love rare veggie pizzas that increase condition dmg and duration.;-) (uh-oh next thing the op wants to nerf.

lol really? You play a glamour Mesmer and you don’t even have a clue how it works.. Amazing..

oh have u? have u seen the numbers u get with feedback? people using projectiles hit themself as it reflects them. the confuion ticks are pretty much different but it is still the same thing like hitting yourself the more u attack the more u hit yourself thats how it works. chaos armore, veil, portals, nullfield and feedback. but like i said condition dmg by itself doesent need to be nerfed as without any combo or the right trait it is nowhere near as effectife. btw ENglish is not my foirst language and it is really hard to explain this properly u have to try out a glamour build for yourself and then lets see.

Sry that English wasn’t ur first language. But we’re not talking about reflecting projectiles, we’re talking about confusion. Hense all the “You have no idea what you’re talking about comments”.

I know that but when u get destroyed you are not only dying by confusion. When i use feedback and nullfield I get confusion per tick it will be around 625 to 1900 combined with the regular dmg caused by it but this is what u get u see it in this video where our guild got destroyed by avtr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXLb8eiKt8

check for yourself

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Don’t worry. At one time, Dynnen’s heart was filled with rage and anger towards me as well. It has something to do with having a red name over your head.

An actual quote from a few nights ago: “I’m going to rip that kitten guy’s throat out”

And then, he did… thought I was playing Age of Conan for a second there.

whaaaaa!?! Dynnen was on a diff server?

confusion by itself is a joke, when applied with condition bombs its pretty good…

but a cordinated guild running condition removal can answer it… weve been dealing with it from Kaenig all week and although I can see where this worked for them in tiers 3-8 where they havent fought organised guild groups, the strategy by itself vs an organised group with condition removals becomes countered pretty eaisly, and the organised group can then demolish the zerg of necros and mesmers that was trying to condition bomb them.

the ONLY change to the situation that Id like to see made is being able to prioritize boons, condition removals, and AOE heals to guildies before being applied to random people around you… so organised groups arnt negatively impacted by running with others

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Don’t worry. At one time, Dynnen’s heart was filled with rage and anger towards me as well. It has something to do with having a red name over your head.

An actual quote from a few nights ago: “I’m going to rip that kitten guy’s throat out”

And then, he did… thought I was playing Age of Conan for a second there.

whaaaaa!?! Dynnen was on a diff server?

In SWTOR.

Tammuz.7361:

confusion by itself is a joke, when applied with condition bombs its pretty good…

but a cordinated guild running condition removal can answer it…

the ONLY change to the situation that Id like to see made is being able to prioritize boons, condition removals, and AOE heals to guildies before being applied to random people around you… so organised groups arnt negatively impacted by running with others

Yes, it’s a non-issue for 30 man guild zergs groups. It’s not a horrible issue for 10v10 either. It’s a problem when you get under 5 (as has been argued many times in the thread). Just like the solution to your AoE problem is to only run with 5 people and avoid zergs.

It’s amazing how different the game is when you are running with less than 10 than when you are running with more than 20.

First if you spec a Mesmer pure condition damage you’re doing it wrong. 8 stacks will still hit you around 2k a pop so enjoy not doing anything while I hit you with a follow up shatter for 10k.

Second check on the link in my sig. It necro perspective confusion+epidemic (which we don’t run anymore for other reasons). It will give you an idea of the usual damage numbers. Remember only the stacks I apply show on my screen as damage. The person is taking double in most cases from the shatter. 4-6k tics are fairly common for a good bomb.

The damage done by the stack after epidemic is calculated based on the necros condition damage and not the mezmer. You can use power mezmers and still put out the hurt. It forces people to either die to confusion or to regular dps by being forced to run around in circles.

Oozo.7856:

Tammuz.7361:

confusion by itself is a joke, when applied with condition bombs its pretty good…

but a cordinated guild running condition removal can answer it…

the ONLY change to the situation that Id like to see made is being able to prioritize boons, condition removals, and AOE heals to guildies before being applied to random people around you… so organised groups arnt negatively impacted by running with others

Yes, it’s a non-issue for 30 man guild zergs groups. It’s not a horrible issue for 10v10 either. It’s a problem when you get under 5 (as has been argued many times in the thread). Just like the solution to your AoE problem is to only run with 5 people and avoid zergs.

It’s amazing how different the game is when you are running with less than 10 than when you are running with more than 20.

ok, fair enough, we typically run 15-20 so people in our guild group on a week day, but there is an unusually high concentration of condition removal built into our group… so perhaps thats why we dont have such major issues with it…

Also admitedly depending on what randoms decide to do we can wind up with 30-40 of them tagging along for the ride (our commander is a popular guy i guess).

950 hours on my mesmer.

I’ve played ton’s of confusion in WvW. I can say that without a doubt confusion only works for the most part on newer players or players that glass cannon specs.

My glass cannon shatter build can basically one shot most players in 1.5 seconds.

My confusion spec is trolly for sure but the reality is I do squat for hard damage. If you simply watch your debuffs I literally have no damage other than confusion. It’s true. Also Confusion is a very short duration condition. The most you’ll get on you is 5-6 seconds and then it will begin ticking off as the individual shatters wear off.

Serious, If a confusion spec’d mesmer is hassling you, you really can just run away. They can’t stop you and kill you unless you engage.

A confusion mesmer against a player who attacks slowly and methodically is pretty screwed. I’ve fought many thieves who can take down my confusion spec no matter how perfectly I play the first 60 seconds of the fight.

I’ve also fought guardians who were smart and will just pause everytime they get confusion stacks. Serious, just pause for 4 seconds, kite for a second then reapply pressure. That’s the strat that messes me up in a confusion spec.

The people who just mash buttons are the ones who die.

You need to space out your use of confusion then in your confusion builds. If anyone is able to simply use 1 cleanse or stop fighting to counter your confusion spec then you are not using it wisely against them. Next time a guardian tries to stop fighting just apply a few stacks at a time. What’s he going to do? Stop fighting forever?

On that note, I want to add that anyone playing a confusion spec without some method of applying pressure outside confusion isn’t getting the most out of it. Confusion is exactly at it’s strongest when there is significant enough pressure to force an opponent into either a) doing something and taking damage or b) doing nothing and taking damage.

It’s obviously a balance that has to be achieved and the point Oozo is trying to make. In small teams it is extremely powerful because the other members of the opposing side can apply enough pressure that even a moderate amount of confusion becomes too powerful. And as a long time Mesmer, I completely agree with him. I do feel bad sometimes when the spec I play is both very good at 1v1 and even better at larger fights.

The only current issue with confusion is the bug/flaw that allows a crap ton of them to be stacked extremely quickly. Some people are exploiting it get 15-25 stacks out extremely quickly in the middle of big fights. Still though, if you pay attention to it, it is easy to deal with ….but I can see from some aspects why people would have a problem with that many.

This thread is stupid and needs not to be bumped.

every class has some form of condition removal….learn to use it and confusion isnt that much of a problem lol

johnno.7543:

every class has some form of condition removal….learn to use it and confusion isnt that much of a problem lol

I agree with you with the one exception of what I mentioned. In that scenarios, it is far far easier to apply than to remove. Regardless though, even if exploiting a bug/flaw like some are doing, you just need to pay attention to it.

Yes, I think confusion is too strong in WvW right now. SO strong, to a point that organized guilds are ‘abusing’ it through Epidemic… or without it anyways (Cry of Frustration bombing, it’s AoE remember?). The spike damage of confusion stacks a Mesmer (and only) can do is a little too much.
Also, confusion was created as a counterpart to retaliation, it should only damage the player suffering it if he lands his/her attacks and not with any action like whats the case currently. A Guardian dodge rolling with the trait Selfless Daring and suffering confusion damage I’m pretty sure it’s not intended either; or a Necromancer with Mark of Evasion, and so on.

Suggestions :

-Give it an internal CD.
Currently, just a few stacks on an unsuspecting foe doing several actions per second (no global CD in this game) can have his/her HP spiked down too fast without ever realising what hit him/her. This is a problem with multihitting skills against retaliation too.
^Fun anecdote: When I was dueling this Mesmer on my Ele (not my main!), I remember getting myself insta downed (no exageration) from 50/60% HP (of ~16k) after a Cry of Frustration on me just by switching to Watter Attunement and dodge rolling.

Or

-Significantly reduce the damage.
Currently, it does too much damage even with 0 points on condition damage. Shatter mesmers leaving you with 8 to 10 stacks of confusion after their spike never dare to tell you that.

Or

-Make it like retaliation.
As I said above, it couses damage in every single action you make, it should work on attacks landed on any attacked foe. “Oh but is different, it lasts less than retaliation!” “it’s in stacks instead of increased duration!”. It’s not relevant as it can hit much much harder; it would still be a powerful debuff, now the debuffed player feels like all of his enemies have retaliation on them; and it would still accomplish its purpose.

PS: I wont answer to silly counter-arguments from fiercefully defenders that are clearly biased and selfentittled (mostly Mesmer) players. There’s too much of this in this thread already.

jportell.2197:

Kelo.4370:

Yes lets nerf the only source of condition damage Mesmer have. Seriously though if yer getting kitten by confusion then DONT ATTACK! Cleanse yourself or start using a skill/heal that does then go back to attacking. That or you know don’t fight a mesmer and someone else alone.

Too bad the subculture of staff mesmers aren’t confusion mesmers. The staff has no direct confusion attack! Just an FYI. Only two weapons the Mesmer has directly cause confusion that is Scepter #3 and torch #5. Nowhere in a confusion build is a staff mentioned. :P

I bolded the relevant part of the original quote. Please l2r.

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

It appears more and more people who are pro confusion don’t understand the basics. Not surprised really .

Seige.4862:

It appears more and more people who are pro confusion don’t understand the basics. Not surprised really .

Probably about as surprised as I am that those against Confusion have nothing to say in their posts except insults to those who disagree.

Maybe you should reread the posts then. Several valid points have been made. Although if your just here to make baseless comments please continue.

Nerf confusion? WHAT? That is an astoundingly absurd request with the huge amounts of burst damage some classes can do. Tone down the burst damage and WvW will become more tactical/strategic oriented AND the cries for nerfing of confusion will be even more absurd.

EasymodeX.4062:

jportell.2197:

Kelo.4370:

Yes lets nerf the only source of condition damage Mesmer have. Seriously though if yer getting kitten by confusion then DONT ATTACK! Cleanse yourself or start using a skill/heal that does then go back to attacking. That or you know don’t fight a mesmer and someone else alone.

Too bad the subculture of staff mesmers aren’t confusion mesmers. The staff has no direct confusion attack! Just an FYI. Only two weapons the Mesmer has directly cause confusion that is Scepter #3 and torch #5. Nowhere in a confusion build is a staff mentioned. :P

I bolded the relevant part of the original quote. Please l2r.

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

^This is what a referred to in my PS. Players that convineintly ignore what’s there to cover their bias or conviniently twist or remark what makes their (biased) point a stronger contender in a discussion. It’s not happening.
First, that being the only source of condition damage Mesmers have (which is not true) suddenly does not make it fine or balanced; second, the Staff is a very reliable condition damage weapon, even really strong at that. For instance, the spammable Staff attack (Winds of Chaos) can apply burning and bleeds, very few weapon 1 skill attacks actually apply burning as it’s a really strong condition (only Flamestrike and Flame Jet come to mind), you could argue it’s random between bleed and vulnerability, but I’d answer your Staff clones apply it too.

Hmm, if only there were a way to increase the amount of shatter mesmers out there.

The main thing that needs to change immediately related to confusion is that “random kitten” like traited dodge rolls should not be proc’ing it. That’s silly.

Other than that, I can’t be in favor of Confusion nerfs in WvW unless all sPvP rulesets are mirrored to WvW (which they should be). This includes things like Thief CND damage nerfs, Berserker gear crit damage nerfs (by a huge amount), sPvP gear in general. This would automatically mean no ascended crap in WvW, which would be awesome.

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

LOL, so much bad info in this thread You couldn’t be more wrong about the staff/confusion builds. facepalm indeed

fishergrip.4082:

A while back Anet reduced confusion damage in sPvP by 50 percent because it is simply overpowered when used against other players. I see more and more mesmers spamming confusion in WvW that causes 1-2k damage per ability use. This is simply too much damage for a condition that can trigger 3-4 times per second. They should add the 50% reduction to WvW.

If 1-2k is too much i’d strongly suggest changing around some stats.

Khenzy.9348:

Yes, I think confusion is too strong in WvW right now. SO strong, to a point that organized guilds are ‘abusing’ it through Epidemic… or without it anyways (Cry of Frustration bombing, it’s AoE remember?). The spike damage of confusion stacks a Mesmer (and only) can do is a little too much.
Also, confusion was created as a counterpart to retaliation, it should only damage the player suffering it if he lands his/her attacks and not with any action like whats the case currently. A Guardian dodge rolling with the trait Selfless Daring and suffering confusion damage I’m pretty sure it’s not intended either; or a Necromancer with Mark of Evasion, and so on.

Suggestions :

Honestly, I don’t even believe that the damage confusion does is the problem. The problem is how confusion is applied applied and how quickly it can be done.

Your standard shatter mesmer relies on several things things in order to get their combo off: Illusionary Persona, Deceptive Evasion, Blink, and Mirror Images. With confusion builds especially taking advantage of Illusionary Retribution as well. Everything else is just icing really.

Now, it’s quite arguable that, taken by themselves, none of these things is an issue, but together they can circumvent one of the games primary design goals.

Look at almost every bursty ability in the game: Hundred Blades, Kill Shot, Eviscerate, Dragon’s Tooth, Fire Grab, Phantasmal Berserker, Blurred Frenzy, Protector’s Strike, Jump Shot, Throw Wrench, etc and you’ll see they tend to have some sort of telegraph, a tell that lets you mitigate the incoming damage either by dodging or some other method. Even Backstab, for all it’s cheesy goodness, is usually telegraphed by the proceeding Cloak and Dagger.

About the only things that aren’t telegraphed in some way are Mug, Electric Discharge. Static Discharge, and Kit Refinement. But those are another topic entirely.

So the question has to be, is it reasonable for mesmers to get so much damage for what is essentially no telegraph? Is asking people to dodge the Blink/Mirror Images/dodge for clone/shatter combo too much in a combat situation? Does Deceptive Evasion and Mirror Images, when combined, allow mesmers to generate clones faster than intended and/or balanced?

I believe that it isn’t reasonable. And I believe ANet will do something about it at some point in the not-too-distant future. At least one of these traits/skills is for the chop imo.

If it were up to me, I would probably remove Illusionary Retribution entirely and give Mirror Images a cast time while removing it’s so often overlooked stun break feature. (And nerf Mental Torment to 10% for giggles)

They could probably add confusion back onto the mesmer scepter 1 skill if they removed removed the ability to almost instantaneously crap out 8 stacks of confusion onto any group of people within 900-1200 range every 30 seconds.

Foddzy.6291:

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

LOL, so much bad info in this thread You couldn’t be more wrong about the staff/confusion builds. facepalm indeed

Oh dear. Please explain to me how a confusion Mesmer, who needs a lot of condition damage to perform, would use anything else except Staff and x/Pistol (or x/Torch if they’re feeling frisky)?

Sidenote:

Any Mesmer that knows how the kitten to play the class is also getting a non-trivial amount of Confusion out of the Staff as well.

Let’s call this “triple facepalm”.

Attic.1562:

They could probably add confusion back onto the mesmer scepter 1 skill if they removed removed the ability to almost instantaneously crap out 8 stacks of confusion onto any group of people within 900-1220 range every 30 seconds.

Dunno, that’s half an endurance bar, 2 utility skills, and an F2 in order to apply a stack of conditions that doesn’t necessarily do any damage at all.

Seems like a big investment for unreliable payoff.

EasymodeX.4062:

Foddzy.6291:

Also, if a confusion build is not using Staff, they are doing something wrong.

I am double facepalming, because one facepalm is simply not enough.

LOL, so much bad info in this thread You couldn’t be more wrong about the staff/confusion builds. facepalm indeed

Oh dear. Please explain to me how a confusion Mesmer, who needs a lot of condition damage to perform, would use anything else except Staff and x/Pistol (or x/Torch if they’re feeling frisky)?

If only there was a way to see what conditions are on you. Oh wait..

EasymodeX.4062:

Attic.1562:

They could probably add confusion back onto the mesmer scepter 1 skill if they removed removed the ability to almost instantaneously crap out 8 stacks of confusion onto any group of people within 900-1220 range every 30 seconds.

Dunno, that’s half an endurance bar, 2 utility skills, and an F2 in order to apply a stack of conditions that doesn’t necessarily do any damage at all.

Seems like a big investment for unreliable payoff.

Using multiple skills to try to achieve one powerful effect is the whole bloody point of combos to begin with. It is something inherent in the system.

So mesmers use the same amount of effort and resources that other players use to execute their combos, but for some reason get one that is way harder to avoid because of how fast it happens.

Tell me, how is that particularly unreliable or unfair to mesmers?

Attic.1562:

Using multiple skills to try to achieve one powerful effect is the whole bloody point of combos to begin with. It is something inherent in the system.

So mesmers use the same amount of effort and resources that other players use to execute their combos, but for some reason get one that is way harder to avoid because of how fast it happens.

Now if the utilities and cooldowns burned actually dealt 15k damage directly, without requiring that the target use 4 abilities into a Condition that they can witness on their bar …

Nevertheless, I wouldn’t mind if Confusion were nerfed in WvW — but I see that as an overarching “sPvP and WvW” ruleset discussion.

It definitely needs some changes. I can’t even change my attunement without the damage effect triggering. Much less dodge, heal, or use pretty much any other ability.

Khalic, sometimes it is better to just withdraw temporarily and let it time out. The is even more true if you aren’t running a condition removal build or they are down. No point in switching attunement to heal when you have 15 stacks on you and you will get hit twice trying to do so. Huge net loss.

EasymodeX.4062:

Attic.1562:

Using multiple skills to try to achieve one powerful effect is the whole bloody point of combos to begin with. It is something inherent in the system.

So mesmers use the same amount of effort and resources that other players use to execute their combos, but for some reason get one that is way harder to avoid because of how fast it happens.

Now if the utilities and cooldowns burned actually dealt 15k damage directly, without requiring that the target use 4 abilities into a Condition that they can witness on their bar …

‘Cause making someone (and all the guys near him) voluntarily stop fighting so your friends can wail on him with impunity isn’t worth anything at all is it?

People keep thinking that confusion is all or nothing. That your opponent is the one that truly decides whether you gain any benefit from its application, but that is false.

Confusion always rewards you. Always. Just like every other condition you can apply. The only question is how much of an reward you’re going to gain.

Khalic.3561:

It definitely needs some changes. I can’t even change my attunement without the damage effect triggering. Much less dodge, heal, or use pretty much any other ability.

This is a blatant lie, I dueled an ele last night and confusion does not tic on attunement swap, or dodge or heal. The amount of bad players in this thread is very shocking. Oh yeah and the ele beat me in the duel too. Oh wops theres good players out there.