Guild Wars 2

Attic.1562:

‘Cause making someone (and all the guys near him) voluntarily stop fighting so your friends can wail on him with impunity isn’t worth anything at all is it?

Or they could just cleanse it. Autocleanses wouldn’t proc the Confusion effect. Ally cleanses wouldn’t proc it. Etcetera.

Using a generic cleanse would only inflict 1 tick, and 1 tick isn’t worth 2 utility cooldowns, an F2, and a dodge.

1 tick of 8stack Confusion is the same damage as when I press “2” on a 5 second cooldown. You’re saying the condition Mesmer had to press 7 8 E F2 on a 3x second cooldown. Shrug. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

Try going back to the real arguments, or learn more about the Mesmer class to understand what is or is not overpowered about Confusion.

Archer.1658:

Khalic.3561:

It definitely needs some changes. I can’t even change my attunement without the damage effect triggering. Much less dodge, heal, or use pretty much any other ability.

This is a blatant lie, I dueled an ele last night and confusion does not tic on attunement swap, or dodge or heal. The amount of bad players in this thread is very shocking. Oh yeah and the ele beat me in the duel too. Oh wops theres good players out there.

If you go 15 points into any of the elemental trait lines, attunement swaps trigger a spell based on the attunement. So… since I currently have 20 points in air/earth, swapping to either of those attunements causes me to take damage from confusion. Many elementalists are running some variation of the 0/10/0/30/30 build right now, and may not have this issue.

If you have the 30 point arcane trait evasive aracana, dodging will create a spell based on attunement… which also triggers confusion. Though I’m not sure if the cleansing wave dodge will, assuming it clears a condition other than the confusion.

Did I say mesmers were unbeatable? No. But having the condition tick on both offensive and defensive skill use is problematic. Admittedly, in the case of elementalists this is more due to the way our class mechanics are designed (as I described above). But it does apply to everyone on some level.

I think it’s acceptable to apply on both offensive and defensive skill use, as long as we’re talking about using skills. Proc’ing on other things like dodge and attunement swapping due to traits seems silly and should be adjusted.

Although it is funny.

Archer.1658:

Khalic.3561:

It definitely needs some changes. I can’t even change my attunement without the damage effect triggering. Much less dodge, heal, or use pretty much any other ability.

This is a blatant lie, I dueled an ele last night and confusion does not tic on attunement swap, or dodge or heal. The amount of bad players in this thread is very shocking. Oh yeah and the ele beat me in the duel too. Oh wops theres good players out there.

Please read up on the elementalist and what caused him to say what he did. He most definitely was not lying. You are just unfamiliar with the class and the ‘why’

EasymodeX.4062:

Attic.1562:

‘Cause making someone (and all the guys near him) voluntarily stop fighting so your friends can wail on him with impunity isn’t worth anything at all is it?

Or they could just cleanse it. Autocleanses wouldn’t proc the Confusion effect. Ally cleanses wouldn’t proc it. Etcetera.

Using a generic cleanse would only inflict 1 tick, and 1 tick isn’t worth 2 utility cooldowns, an F2, and a dodge.

1 tick of 8stack Confusion is the same damage as when I press “2” on a 5 second cooldown. You’re saying the condition Mesmer had to press 7 8 E F2 on a 3x second cooldown. Shrug. You’re barking up the wrong tree here.

Try going back to the real arguments, or learn more about the Mesmer class to understand what is or is not overpowered about Confusion.

You’re telling me that you don’t try to make your opponent waste their condition removals on more frivolous things like the 4 stacks of confusion from Mind Wrack? And I’m the one who has to go “back to the real arguments”?

I’m not even going to comment on the idea that Shrug It Off is something to be concerned about.

Though I would like to see an AoE ability that hits for over 3000 non-crit every 5 seconds.

You’re telling me that you don’t try to make your opponent waste their condition removals on more frivolous things like the 4 stacks of confusion from Mind Wrack?

So, the Mesmer has used a full Mind Wrack then used a combo to get 8 stacks of Confusion. That’s something like 75% of their damage output.

So what you’re telling me is that 2 condition removal events will basically neuter this overpowered opponent. Nerf!

I’m not even going to comment on the idea that Shrug It Off is something to be concerned about.

Off the top of my head there’s something like ~1-2 traits for almost every class that grant completely passive condition removal, as well as a ton of traits that grant it in tandem with another ability.

Though I would like to see an AoE ability that hits for over 3000 non-crit every 5 seconds.

Given that Confusion cannot crit, you’re not really in a position to demand that the AOE does not crit.

Generally speaking: Mirror Blade (2 targets), Whirlwind Attack, Hundred Blades, Mind Stab (crit), iBerserker, Cluster Bomb, Thief Dagger 4 (on 2 targets), Guardian GS whirl, half a dozen Elementalist AOEs (some require crit) all qualify. A few Ranger attacks do as well with the piercing trait and opponents in a line rather than a circle. Warr longbow cluster does. Warr rifle channel does with the same piercing / line conditions as the Ranger.

Zzzz. 3k is not a big deal.

Edit: Most of those are slightly over 5 seconds, but close enough. Glad they’re less than the 3x second Confusion stack example though, phew.

EasymodeX.4062:

You’re telling me that you don’t try to make your opponent waste their condition removals on more frivolous things like the 4 stacks of confusion from Mind Wrack?

So, the Mesmer has used a full Mind Wrack then used a combo to get 8 stacks of Confusion. That’s something like 75% of their damage output.

So what you’re telling me is that 2 condition removal events will basically neuter this overpowered opponent. Nerf

Two things.

1. If you think that confusion is literally all of a condition mesmers damage you either haven’t played the class or you play it very badly
2. Please stop inserting your own fantasies into my words. I never said the class or spec was overpowered. I said the combo was out of line with other combos. Specifically because of how fast it comes out, which makes it more difficult to avoid and mitigate than is reasonable imo. This goes for all shatter builds. There are other such combos, mostly centered around Mug and its ilk, but we aren’t discussing them here. If Bull’s Rush was a teleport instead of an extremely exaggerated slide across the ground the same bloody thing would apply to the classic Frenzy/Hundred Blades combo. Likewise, if Mirror Images had a extremely obvious and substantial cast time like Churning Earth I would laugh at people who complain about it being OP.

I’m not even going to comment on the idea that Shrug It Off is something to be concerned about.

Off the top of my head there’s something like ~1-2 traits for almost every class that grant completely passive condition removal, as well as a ton of traits that grant it in tandem with another ability.

I just checked this, there are 5 totally passive condition removals: Shrug It Off, Purity, Signet of Resolve, Signet of Water, and Signet of Renewal.

So yeah, I missed a few, but its a far cry from “1-2 traits for almost every class”. Not to mention that only the guardian ones see much use.

Though I would like to see an AoE ability that hits for over 3000 non-crit every 5 seconds.

Given that Confusion cannot crit, you’re not really in a position to demand that the AOE does not crit.

Given that my confusion never hits for less than 3000 if I land all 4 hits (and more often are in the 3500-3800 range) I think it’s valid. Unless you’re rocking 100% crit I guess.

Don’t offer to bring what you can’t supply.

[a bunch of stuff that doesn’t meet the specified criteria]

Zzzz. 3k is not a big deal.

Edit: Most of those are slightly over 5 seconds, but close enough. Glad they’re less than the 3x second Confusion stack example though, phew.

You’re mental if you think a memser requires 30+ seconds to get another full shatter off. FYI for most mesmers Mind Wrack is a 10s cd and Cry of Frustration is 20s.

Not to mention you’re acting like 3k is the most damage you’ll get when really there is the potential for so much more. I like swapping to my scepter after a shatter so I can drop another 4 stacks on some unlucky sod. In an actual combat situation (i.e. outside of duels) it often kills people. Seeing several tics in the 4.5-5k range is not uncommon.

Any thoughts on putting confusion dmg to rolls not just the rolls that have an effect but all rolls. I think it would add in a lot of counter play to the high endures builds.

If you think that confusion is literally all of a condition mesmers damage you either haven’t played the class or you play it very badly

Confusion? All?

No, but blowing Mind Wrack and Cry, 2 utilities, a phantasm, and a clone is about 75% of the damage output of the spec for a good 20 seconds.

Perhaps you should try to actually understand the combo and sequence of attacks you’re talking about so blithely.

I never said the class or spec was overpowered. I said the combo was out of line with other combos. Specifically because of how fast it comes out, which makes it more difficult to avoid and mitigate than is reasonable imo.

Hmmm. 3500 cleansed confusion tick. Hmm, player kittens up and takes 2 ticks for 7k. Hmm. Player kittens up even more and takes a total of 3 ticks for 10500 before conditions are removed.

Hmm, player gets crit by CND Mug BS for 24,000.

Hmm, player gets crit by RTL burst for 24k.

Maybe if the shatter combos (power or condition oriented) dealt >20k damage to a glass target, you’d be onto something. Maybe if the confusion were semi-reliable.

You’re mental if you think a memser requires 30+ seconds to get another full shatter off. FYI for most mesmers Mind Wrack is a 10s cd and Cry of Frustration is 20s.

You’re the one who’s using a Blink + Mirror Image combo. Don’t come crying to me because of your example. Once they recognize the Mesmer is condition centric, they can prep a light field (class depending). Shrug. If they don’t have a solution to conditions, then they’d get rolled just as easily by a P/D Thief.

Not to mention you’re acting like 3k is the most damage you’ll get when really there is the potential for so much more.

I could drop a Feedback on a player and watch them crit themselves for 14k direct damage and 7k confusion damage with a quickness volley chain. I believe I’ve witnessed that event exactly once.

I could also just use a direct damage combo on the target for 15k damage rather than hope they roll their face across the keyboard to deal half that much damage via confusions.

Is it too powerful? Possibly, by a small margin (simply because all shatters can be used to maintain minimal stacks). There’s a lot of kitten kitten that goes on WvW that would be resolved by mirroring the sPvP ruleset. Shrug.

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Don’t worry. At one time, Dynnen’s heart was filled with rage and anger towards me as well. It has something to do with having a red name over your head.

An actual quote from a few nights ago: “I’m going to rip that kitten guy’s throat out”

And then, he did… thought I was playing Age of Conan for a second there.

whaaaaa!?! Dynnen was on a diff server?

Heres the first time me and Oozo met in a game. First fight in the video. Prior to that I was trolling him on his youtube page because he featured a friend of mine getting roflstomped by him in the beginning of another video =D

And the throat I ripped out was this guy from EB that laughed after he and 10-20 killed me. ADQQBsty group came back and fended them off while reviving me, then we killed them. They came back again later and after we killed them we let this ranger live, then a few of us played hot-potato with his downed state and banish. After about the 4th knockback he stopped trying to revive =P

Attic.1562:

Given that my confusion never hits for less than 3000 if I land all 4 hits (and more often are in the 3500-3800 range) I think it’s valid. Unless you’re rocking 100% crit I guess.

Don’t offer to bring what you can’t supply.

3800 on stack of 4 = 950 per stack. How much condi dmg do you have? Or are you lying.

Moddo.7105:

Attic.1562:

Given that my confusion never hits for less than 3000 if I land all 4 hits (and more often are in the 3500-3800 range) I think it’s valid. Unless you’re rocking 100% crit I guess.

Don’t offer to bring what you can’t supply.

3800 on stack of 4 = 950 per stack. How much condi dmg do you have? Or are you lying.

4 hits with Cry of Frustration is 8 stacks due to Illusionary Retribution. With might stacks, full corruption stacks, food, and tuning crystals it’s not especially hard to reach.

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

I’m Amins and I approve of Angry Mesmer Bombs’: MVP.

Drop’n bombs on the unexpected and laughing.

EasymodeX.4062:

If you think that confusion is literally all of a condition mesmers damage you either haven’t played the class or you play it very badly

Confusion? All?

No, but blowing Mind Wrack and Cry, 2 utilities, a phantasm, and a clone is about 75% of the damage output of the spec for a good 20 seconds.

Perhaps you should try to actually understand the combo and sequence of attacks you’re talking about so blithely.

I never said the class or spec was overpowered. I said the combo was out of line with other combos. Specifically because of how fast it comes out, which makes it more difficult to avoid and mitigate than is reasonable imo.

Hmmm. 3500 cleansed confusion tick. Hmm, player kittens up and takes 2 ticks for 7k. Hmm. Player kittens up even more and takes a total of 3 ticks for 10500 before conditions are removed.

Hmm, player gets crit by CND Mug BS for 24,000.

Hmm, player gets crit by RTL burst for 24k.

Maybe if the shatter combos (power or condition oriented) dealt >20k damage to a glass target, you’d be onto something. Maybe if the confusion were semi-reliable.

You’re mental if you think a memser requires 30+ seconds to get another full shatter off. FYI for most mesmers Mind Wrack is a 10s cd and Cry of Frustration is 20s.

You’re the one who’s using a Blink + Mirror Image combo. Don’t come crying to me because of your example. Once they recognize the Mesmer is condition centric, they can prep a light field (class depending). Shrug. If they don’t have a solution to conditions, then they’d get rolled just as easily by a P/D Thief.

Not to mention you’re acting like 3k is the most damage you’ll get when really there is the potential for so much more.

I could drop a Feedback on a player and watch them crit themselves for 14k direct damage and 7k confusion damage with a quickness volley chain. I believe I’ve witnessed that event exactly once.

I could also just use a direct damage combo on the target for 15k damage rather than hope they roll their face across the keyboard to deal half that much damage via confusions.

Is it too powerful? Possibly, by a small margin (simply because all shatters can be used to maintain minimal stacks). There’s a lot of kitten kitten that goes on WvW that would be resolved by mirroring the sPvP ruleset. Shrug.

With all due respect I melt the best condition removal classes in the game, the Guardian, and the Elementalist. Spreading false claims to defend the class isn’t going to help us, so please be a bit more informative with what you try to say, or do.

Just this last week I’ve made a build that doesn’t shatter at all, and doesn’t use confusion, and I still melt Guardians, and Elementalists. We have other very good damage options.

Supersun.4603:

Relentliss.2170:

Its a totally BS skill. Its essentially a DOT that ticks when you use an ability. Everyone has to use abilities or die. A dot that ticks for 1k+ is kittenly OP in any game. Its also kittenly easy to apply for the damage it does.

I know, right, DoTs ticking for 1k are so broken.

Killshot’s damage is slaughtered…

Thieves Steal + CnD + Backstab is only a shadow…

No, not even Warrior’s quickened 100 Blades can cut it…

compared to 1k damage per second!!!

That is the damage that 1 stack of confusion does. Usually people have 6-8+ stacks of them all the time from all the Mesmers, so that is really 6-8k per second. Its not such a problem in Spvp unless there are muliple mesmers, but in WvW its a huge problem. The game is not balanced properly for skills like this in WvW.

Seige.4862:

The fail in this thread is amazing. Quite disappointed in any mesmer who is defending confusion. Our class is amazing at so many other builds. Why defend something so blatantly unbalanced?
/sigh
The general population of MMO’s have continued to disappoint me since DAOC. Frankly I blame WoW, lack of education, and parents not beating their children.

I agree 100% with the second half of what you said, hahaha.

Relentliss.2170:

That is the damage that 1 stack of confusion does.

Like hell it does.

2k condition damage doesn’t even break 500 per stack.

If you are getting hit for 6k with confusion you have 12 stacks of confusion from a 2k condition mesmer.

If you ever have 12 stacks of confusion on you, you are doing something very wrong and that Mesmer is burning every cooldown that he has on you.

(Not to mention how…impractical it is to have 2k condition damage)

It’s kind of sad how uninformed and ignorant people are in this thread, whether you argue for or against confusion at least stick to facts instead of made up numbers.

And to the eles complaining; confusion mesmers are your counter just like dd eles are thieves counter, (and Tbh it’s really really hard to kill a good dd ele with confusion)

Glad you agree and enjoyed that :P

Please, go play confusion mesmer and then tell how easy it is to kill people with confusion who know how it works. Protip: mesmers die to conditions very hard in wvw, almost no one has condition removal.

We got hit by a mesmer – necro confusion bomb yesterday. Our raidlead, a d/d ele, died almost instantly due to 25 stacks of confusion. This is what people are currently doing in WvW and whoever witnessed it would agree that it’s much too powerful.

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

Dr Acula.3496:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

EvilSardine.9635:

Yep, confusion needs to be nerfed. Even my friend who has a mesmer says so. If you’re saying otherwise, then you’re silly and have ZERO experience fighting a good confusion mesmer. Atleast lower it to the damage it does in PvP. In WvW the damage is just absurd. Like 8 stacks or so of confusion on a warrior will do a ridiculous 5,000 damage just because he DODGE ROLLS….you know to avoid more confusion attacks.

We’ve done done tests using classes with as many condition removals as possible and the good mesmer can keep confusion on you the entire time. You can be a warrior with mending, shake it off (letting auto trait trigger then using it manually after), and rune of the soldier so conditions are removed when you use a shout, and you will still have constant confusion put on you. It’s too easy to apply.

It’s pretty obvious it needs to be tweaked in WvW. Damage is cut down by 50% in PvP. You cannot argue that it doesn’t need balancing if Anet already did it for PvP.

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble. we put both fields down at the same time so it causes more dmg.i dodge out of enemiy mesmers bubble all the time and don’t get that kind of dmg. whats your thoughness.

1) It CAN’T CRIT
2) 5k damage was a bit of an over-statement, but not much. Happy/Angry Unicorns a guy we fight quite often, has his 8 stack confusion hits that hit for 3400, and I’m pretty sure isn’t running the 2100 condition damage I’ve seen from our new mesmers.

Lastly. The next person that says “Confusion only kills bad players” needs to leave this thread. Its not the confusion that kills you, its the confusion that causes such heinous damage that prevents you from doing anything that kills you. Also, no one can say “I’ve never been hit by condition damage” so I guess we are all bad players.

I’m Angry Unicorns and I approve this message.

Brohug time imo =D

Can we please!? Last time I PMed you you replied with hatred and Distaste. It hurt mah feelinzzz

EDIT: And if they should nerf anything it should be Culling… That junk is OP

Don’t worry. At one time, Dynnen’s heart was filled with rage and anger towards me as well. It has something to do with having a red name over your head.

An actual quote from a few nights ago: “I’m going to rip that kitten guy’s throat out”

And then, he did… thought I was playing Age of Conan for a second there.

whaaaaa!?! Dynnen was on a diff server?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk2We_jmZhk

Heres the first time me and Oozo met in a game. First fight in the video. Prior to that I was trolling him on his youtube page because he featured a friend of mine getting roflstomped by him in the beginning of another video =D

And the throat I ripped out was this guy from EB that laughed after he and 10-20 killed me. ADQQBsty group came back and fended them off while reviving me, then we killed them. They came back again later and after we killed them we let this ranger live, then a few of us played hot-potato with his downed state and banish. After about the 4th knockback he stopped trying to revive =P

I miss Swtor, as crappy as the open world pvp was, It’s actual PVP is still miles a head of the crap in this game.

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

Dynnen.6405:

selan.8354:

dank.3680:

selan.8354:

Supersun.4603:

selan.8354:

selan.8354:

if u have gotten 5000 dmg then it was a crit and u must have run into th nullfield that was placed together with th bubble.

I ment crit from the other player, he basically hit himself crit.

You have no idea how confusion works, do you.

Oh i do, the higher the attack you are using on us the higher the dmg u are dealing on yourself if it is a projectile. I dont know if u can crit yourslef but i get pretty high numbers but not up to 5000 by dodging. I don’t know but vs certain players like thieves i get crazy numbers though. Btw I love rare veggie pizzas that increase condition dmg and duration.;-) (uh-oh next thing the op wants to nerf.

lol really? You play a glamour Mesmer and you don’t even have a clue how it works.. Amazing..

oh have u? have u seen the numbers u get with feedback? people using projectiles hit themself as it reflects them. the confuion ticks are pretty much different but it is still the same thing like hitting yourself the more u attack the more u hit yourself thats how it works. chaos armore, veil, portals, nullfield and feedback. but like i said condition dmg by itself doesent need to be nerfed as without any combo or the right trait it is nowhere near as effectife. btw ENglish is not my foirst language and it is really hard to explain this properly u have to try out a glamour build for yourself and then lets see.

Sry that English wasn’t ur first language. But we’re not talking about reflecting projectiles, we’re talking about confusion. Hense all the “You have no idea what you’re talking about comments”.

I know that but when u get destroyed you are not only dying by confusion. When i use feedback and nullfield I get confusion per tick it will be around 625 to 1900 combined with the regular dmg caused by it but this is what u get u see it in this video where our guild got destroyed by avtr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXLb8eiKt8

check for yourself

Again we’re only talking about confusion. Stay on target or gtfo

yes and so was i talking about confusion and how confusion does not kill someone alone with confusion and u will need other attacks to finish targets off because confusion is in fact not op. so i am satying on target and in this viseo u see confusion glamour mesmers fighting. the only thing op about it is that all of them use confusion attacks at the same time. confusion by itself is not op and should not be nerfed. btw if u dont wanna listen to other mesmers why even be here to attack everyone who talks about it. i am talking about confusion and btw feedback is a big big part of that with the right build.

Xelnok.2397:

It’s kind of sad how uninformed and ignorant people are in this thread, whether you argue for or against confusion at least stick to facts instead of made up numbers.

And to the eles complaining; confusion mesmers are your counter just like dd eles are thieves counter, (and Tbh it’s really really hard to kill a good dd ele with confusion)

I actually disagree with the counter.
Ele’s have too many ways to remove conditions and too good of healing to worry about it.
While it may be a counter to bunker;s who spec mostly toughness.
People running magi gear, with healing power will outheal and out cleanse a confusion stacking mes.
You wont kill them though, but you will survive them

Re: Attic.
Shatter has a tell, bro. That whole bit where every Clone or Phantasm stops attacking and momentarily stands like they’re stunned. Then the lot of ‘em run at their target. I could see the concern if they just -iunno- warped to the target’s position, and self-nuked.

Now, I will agree with others in this thread on one thing. I main Mesmer myself, but would say that confusion on traited dodge/non-attack traited Attunement swap is – imho – frigging silly.

However – I wonder what folk who hate how confusion pans out would think if ANet had’ve merely moved over the Mesmer skills from GW1. Some of those allowed the ability to completely shut an opponent down. Seems to me Confusion was their attempt at kinda mixing abilities like that together.

Iavra.8510:

We got hit by a mesmer – necro confusion bomb yesterday. Our raidlead, a d/d ele, died almost instantly due to 25 stacks of confusion. This is what people are currently doing in WvW and whoever witnessed it would agree that it’s much too powerful.

So why are you arguing to nerf confusion instead of Epidemic?

It would completely solve the problem to Necro-Mesmer teams beating zergs, and I don’t know very many Necros that run Epidemic unless they’re with a mesmer anyway.

Or is all this really just another way to argue for Mesmer nerfs because the pink butterflies are too much for you? o;

Iavra.8510:

We got hit by a mesmer – necro confusion bomb yesterday. Our raidlead, a d/d ele, died almost instantly due to 25 stacks of confusion. This is what people are currently doing in WvW and whoever witnessed it would agree that it’s much too powerful.

This is a L2P issue.

In organzied group play, a couple of your guardians should be running group condition removal & stability for this reason alone.

If you’re PUG’n it in the zerg… I suggest paying a little more attention to what’s going on around you. /grin

fishergrip.4082:

Notice how only mesmers are trying to argue that confusion is not overpowered and even some unbiased mesmers agree it is overpowered.

Never played a mesmer. I only play warrior and ranger in wvw. Confusion is not OP. There you go. It’s the simplest and weakest condition you can get if you have any idea what you’re doing at all. I’d much rather have 10 stacks of confusion than 10 bleeds, on top of poison or some of the other things that multi-condition proffs can do. Confusion is so easily managed that it makes this entire thread hilarious to me.

I know how to play my class, thanks. All of our guardians are specifically built for support running 80% boon duration. However, most of them are consecration builds, i am currently the only fixed shout guardian in our raid. Area condition removal is mostly shared between us guardians and our D/D eles.

However, timed confusion + multiple epidemics can occur really fast and an attempt to cleanse them does a huge amount of damage. Before even doing this, an ele has to switch over to water so that’s one more tick.

It’s amazing how everything that comes up on the forums immediately gets marked as l2p by the classes that would be affected by a change.

Iavra.8510:

I know how to play my class, thanks. All of our guardians are specifically built for support running 80% boon duration. However, most of them are consecration builds, i am currently the only fixed shout guardian in our raid. Area condition removal is mostly shared between us guardians and our D/D eles.

However, timed confusion + multiple epidemics can occur really fast and an attempt to cleanse them does a huge amount of damage. Before even doing this, an ele has to switch over to water so that’s one more tick.

It’s amazing how everything that comes up on the forums immediately gets marked as l2p by the classes that would be affected by a change.

You still haven’t told me why you think Confusion should be nerfed and not Epidemic.

You don’t seem to have any problem with just confusion mesmers, as the “Epidemic and confusion” combo is the only thing you’ve cited in your recent posts. So why nerf Confusion when Epidemic is what makes it a problem?

Yeah sorry, seems i don’t really understood your post.

I fought some mesmers lately, nearly all of them were heavy confusion. In 1on1 it’s usually manageable but in larger fight it’s becoming a bit of a problem.

I was fighting a confusion mesmer and a backstab thief the other day. Managed to down the mesmer before the thief showed up but that’s when the real problems started. Mesmers are able to easily stack huge amounts on confusion all the time on you if they are downed. Couldn’t really finish the mesmer as the thief would just kill me in the meantime. Couldn’t hit the mesmer or thief as the confusion would cause me to kill myself. I could’ve tried to run away but, well…guardians are slow and thiefs are fast so i got killed ^^

Epidemic could be the a good place to start but i don’t know how to change it without rendering it completely useless. Mesmer downed state could also be adjusted a little bit as it just happened to their underwater skills, but that’s not so important i think.

Iavra.8510:

However, timed confusion + multiple epidemics can occur really fast and an attempt to cleanse them does a huge amount of damage. Before even doing this, an ele has to switch over to water so that’s one more tick.

It’s amazing how everything that comes up on the forums immediately gets marked as l2p by the classes that would be affected by a change.

So … you’re saying epidemic should be nerfed?

I mean, I figure 25 stacks of bleeding + burn + poison would do a kittenton of damage pretty fast too. What is that, 4600 damage per second? And they don’t need to press a button to activate the damage.

Edit: In terms of epidemic, it seems like they could simply copy a maximum of 5 stacks of conditions every second for 5 seconds or something instead of everything instantly. Sidenote: does Epidemic copy the conditions onto the same target it was used on?

Iavra.8510:

Yeah sorry, seems i don’t really understood your post.

I fought some mesmers lately, nearly all of them were heavy confusion. In 1on1 it’s usually manageable but in larger fight it’s becoming a bit of a problem.

I was fighting a confusion mesmer and a backstab thief the other day. Managed to down the mesmer before the thief showed up but that’s when the real problems started. Mesmers are able to easily stack huge amounts on confusion all the time on you if they are downed. Couldn’t really finish the mesmer as the thief would just kill me in the meantime. Couldn’t hit the mesmer or thief as the confusion would cause me to kill myself. I could’ve tried to run away but, well…guardians are slow and thiefs are fast so i got killed ^^

Epidemic could be the a good place to start but i don’t know how to change it without rendering it completely useless. Mesmer downed state could also be adjusted a little bit as it just happened to their underwater skills, but that’s not so important i think.

Well,
Let me explain the Mesmer’s downed state in a bit of detail to help you get an idea.

We have the #1 attack which is where confusion comes from.
It does very little direct damage and leaves one stack of confusion that lasts 3-5 seconds.

The #1 attack while downed is also fairly slow at attacking and cannot stack more than 3-4 stacks of Confusion reliably before you either die or rally.

The #2 skill teleports you a few feet to the left, stealthes you for a couple seconds and creates a clone in your original location which auto attacks, and also stacks confusion.

The #3 skill summons a phantasm which drop kicks the enemy and does a fair amount of direct damage. I am rarely still alive while downed long enough to actually pop this phantasm off.

If you kill the clone you will not have more than 4 stacks of Confusion on you from the mesmer. If you allow both the clone and mesmer to continue Downed, you will still likely not see more than 8-9 stacks of Confusion.

If a thief showed up during your fight, even if the mesmer was Downed it was effectively a 2v1 at that point and claiming that you should have been able to win that fight against anything but noobs is just not true.

In short,
the Mesmer’s Downed state is not that useful.
It’s not the worst Downed state in the game but it cannot really do anything except hope that someone else kills something for you so you can rally before you get stomped.

So no, Mesmers cannot stack “huge amounts of confusion” on your while Downed.

While not Downed,
If I blow my entire rotation on you at the start of the fight, and for some reason you just stand there and take it and don’t dodge, I might get 15 stacks of Confusion up on you, for a maximum of about 5 seconds if I use food to increase condition duration. Then everything I’ve got is on CD.

If you’re losing 1v1 to a confusion mesmer, you have mashed buttons too much.
I can tell you from experience that full condition mesmers have no direct damage to attack you with while you wait/run/whatever until Confusion expires, and hybrid confusion mesmers don’t pack enough confusion damage to be damaging enough to warrant nerfs.

If you’re losing 1vX to a confusion mesmer and other classes, then you would probably have lost regardless because, as has been pointed out before, one good player should never be able to beat 2 or more good players unless they make heinous mistakes.

And to scale up more…
Epidemic is the only reason Confusion is destroying whole zergs.
And even then, I don’t believe it would destroy any zergs that were properly prepared and paying attention to what was going on. (Between tier’s 6 and 3, and multiple wvw hours a day since the end of August, I have not seen a single zerg of ours wiped by confusion. With or without the presence of a necro)

Epidemic is clearly what’s causing the balance problem here.
Nerfing confusion would effectively eliminate one of the very few selections of Mesmer builds already available.

Also,
Fun thing to think about, but only marginally related to the topic: In GW1 Epidemic was a Mesmer skill and did more or less the exact same thing. If Necro’s didn’t steal it from us in GW2 we’d be able to wipe zergs without even having a partner.

EDIT: This post ended up being much longer than I realized. I am also groggy from just waking up, I hope it was somewhat comprehensible.

This whole thread baffles me and reeks of people who have never played a mesmer. I run a full glass cannon shatter build mesmer. I have 1 condition removal on my build and it comes from my sigil of generosity. Once every 10 seconds I “might” transfer a condition. That’s it, no other removal. Condition classes are the rock to my scissors. That said, in all my time in WVW, I don’t ever recall dying to a condition mesmer. I don’t understand how people with multiple removals and most likely more hp/tou than my glass build are dying unless it’s just a complete lack of understanding on how a confusion build works. I tried to build one, but just couldn’t find a playstyle I liked. By doing that, I learned what a basic rotation would be like on a confusion mesmer, and now when I see one in a fight I can pick my opportunities to burst.

Dasboba.1652:

This whole thread baffles me and reeks of people who have never played a mesmer. I run a full glass cannon shatter build mesmer. I have 1 condition removal on my build and it comes from my sigil of generosity. Once every 10 seconds I “might” transfer a condition. That’s it, no other removal. Condition classes are the rock to my scissors. That said, in all my time in WVW, I don’t ever recall dying to a condition mesmer. I don’t understand how people with multiple removals and most likely more hp/tou than my glass build are dying unless it’s just a complete lack of understanding on how a confusion build works. I tried to build one, but just couldn’t find a playstyle I liked. By doing that, I learned what a basic rotation would be like on a confusion mesmer, and now when I see one in a fight I can pick my opportunities to burst.

As someone who has spent most time with a GC shatter build,
I can tell you that no condition mesmer has every killed me either.

I have had some extended and really fun duels with condition mesmers,
But no losses.

Does Epidemic have a 5-target cap?

Yes it does. And necros are in a fairly bad place anyway. Nerfing epidemic would nearly destroy them

Acelerion.6820:

Yes it does. And necros are in a fairly bad place anyway. Nerfing epidemic would nearly destroy them

I agree that Necros are not a particularly sought after class in wvw.
But I can also tell you that Mesmers have ate so many nerfs that if they receive any more they will be in a very bad place too. (Especially since Anet has floated the idea of giving Portal-like mechanics to other classes and may greatly reduce the allure of mesmers in wvw)

But this doesn’t change the fact that the best argument anyone in this thread has given for Confusion being overpowered is when it’s used in conjunction with Epidemic. So the logical step is to nerf the skill causing the problem (That skill being Epidemic).

The change could be as subtle as removing Confusion from the list of conditions that Epidemic spreads. That being it would work exactly the same, just not copy Confusion.

Anyone else tired of someone getting their butt kicked by XYZ class then jumping on the forums yelling about OP? There are clearly some adjustments that need to be made but IMO they should be to bring other weaker classes up not tear the existing power builds down.

It could be worse

You could be getting hit with Spikefruit… At least confusion can be removed

Always look on the bright side of life…

Hello,

Since this thread is not inviting to constructive and healthy discussion it is now closed.

Please remember to stay polite and respectful toward each others.