Hi
As wvwvw turning atm organiced groups lost a strong tool to be effective versus number 1 spamming blobs. I understand it felt unfair that one class would be the only to carry a tool to counter enemy zergs. Even if its sad to lost several viable and fun build and see two 1 h weps become unviable I have some understanding of the other classes, frustration.
Still as it looks now the mindless blobbing gets close to impossible to counter unless you have a simmilar blob of nr 1 spammers.
To keep wvwvw interesting its time to remove the AOE cap, this would force guilds to use more advanced tactics, spread the attacking force over a wider field and use a front force and a defending tail instead of one big pile. A smaler force would be able to keep a larger in chocke points ala 300 style and the terrain would have bigger impact.
It would also be a reason to use long distance aoe forces and keep em guarded in the back or on high ground versus big enemy teams.
/Osicat
Edited some spelling, sorry english not first langauge.
(edited by Osicat.4139)
Hi
As wvwvw turning atm organiced groups lost a strong tool to be effective versus number 1 spamming blobs. I undertsand it felt unfair that one class would be the only to carry a tool to counter enemy zergs. Even if its sad to lost several viable and fun build and see two 1 h weps become unviable I have some understanding of the other classes, frustartion.
Still as it looks now the mindless blobbing gets close to impossible to counter unless you have a simmilar blob of nr 1 spammers.
To keep wvwvw interesting its time to remove the AOE cap, this would force guilds to use more advanced tactics, spread the attacking force over a wider field and use a front force and a defending tail instead of one big pile. A smaler force would be able to keep a larger in chocke points ala 300 style and the terrain would have bigger impact.
It would also be a reason to use long distance aoe forces and keep em guarded in the back or on high ground versus big enemy teams.
/Osicat
Agreed.
It didn’t need a fix. And nice job Anet on “discussing” WvW changes to players that only kittening play sPvP. It’s always the same people from Team Parakitten on the SOTG.
I’m amazed how nobody objects changes at all. Bunch of sheep just nodding yes the entire video.
Make the zerg harder to kill please /end sarcasm. -.-
(edited by Torres.2890)
wvw organized groups. u funny.
wvw is liek casual pve/pvp.
@Torres
Dying via confusion or retaliation were two of the most common ways players died. Many players don’t notice this because of a lack of visual cues to help alert the player to these effects (blind has a nice animation to alert the player, for example). Anet reps have said many, many times, if the game wasn’t so fast paced and/or if the death window was active (tells you what killed you), then there would be A LOT more complaining about the amout of times people died to confusion. When properly used in a zerg, confusion can be quite OP.
wvw organized groups. u funny.
wvw is liek casual pve/pvp.
Not for guilds. What’s this game called again?
@Torres
Dying via confusion or retaliation were two of the most common ways players died. Many players don’t notice this because of a lack of visual cues to help alert the player to these effects (blind has a nice animation to alert the player, for example). Anet reps have said many, many times, if the game wasn’t so fast paced and/or if the death window was active (tells you what killed you), then there would be A LOT more complaining about the amout of times people died to confusion. When properly used in a zerg, confusion can be quite OP.
I think you’re a bit misguided, or perhaps you don’t pay attention when you play (like most that die to confusion and probably why we have this issue in the first place)… you’ve never noticed the pink junk around the edges of your screen when confusion was active on you? It’s exactly like blind, and I can tell you that I’ve never had an issue with identifying when confusion was applied to me. Now that I think about it, I wonder if there’s a setting or something that people are missing – because really, seriously, on my game, it’s remarkably obvious when confusion has been applied to me.
As far as the OP goes… You’re amazing, Osi, but not entirely sure how you can post that confusion is now fixed in one breath, then post that we need to remove the AOE cap to break zergs. Confusion was just fine where it was – killed the bad players, forced the good ones to play well, AND it was a good zerg busting ability. I agree we need more ways to break up the zergs – we don’t need to kill the builds that do that. We just need to make similar zerg-busting tools available to everyone.
Meh, the decision has already apparently been made, though. You don’t see confusion builds in sPvP because they don’t work there. Limiting build choices and decreasing variety is a bad sign. Makes me sad.
Confusing enchantments was op because it allowed for area denial without a cap. Removing an AE cap would allow for total area denial, either with damaging capabilities or boons like retaliation. It would break the game.
@Torres
Dying via confusion or retaliation were two of the most common ways players died. Many players don’t notice this because of a lack of visual cues to help alert the player to these effects (blind has a nice animation to alert the player, for example). Anet reps have said many, many times, if the game wasn’t so fast paced and/or if the death window was active (tells you what killed you), then there would be A LOT more complaining about the amout of times people died to confusion. When properly used in a zerg, confusion can be quite OP.
soooo u failed to notice the big purple cloud around your characters head?
I’ve never actually heard anyone complain about confusion in map chat! Theives, all the time; 3 hit 21k damage combos, perma stealthing, stealth spamming, etc, but confusion, honestly I can’t recall a single instance.
I don’t even play mesmer, but I feel sorry for them as confusion was readily countered.
Removing the aoe cap is a terrible idea why you ask, one reason and its the only reason necessary to counter your argument….. MASS HEALING, the enemy zerg that greatly outnumbers you would just out heal your damage. I think the fix on the issue you talk about was a mistake, the confusion from mesmers against blobs was a great tool to have and forced the blob to use condition removals more effectively now they can use it freely without the worry of confusion. But adding aoe cap removal to the confusion fix will only hinder the small groups more not improve anything.
I think the general idea of removing AoE cap is brilliant, but of course it will have to be adapted to the battlefield so that it actually helps to kill mindless trampling zerg groups rather than help them get you killed. If AoE cap was to be removed I`d suggest to decrease AoE spells overall efficiency – meaning you sacrifice spell`s power for its ability to cover a wider area rather than just single point damage. Also AoE heals/blasts/etc would either get a nerf or get a timer(perhaps something like “too many foreign source heals within the last 10 seconds”) like on stealth. Or perhaps both. These are some ideas I thought of but imo if the game is to be cured of the zerging mentality it has to discourage bunching.
Edit: or AoE healing could work in a pattern similar to League of Legends one, that its efficiency would get crippled by far if you are healed within a short amount of time. the timer on it could renew every time you get a heal from other players and I reckon it would highly promote playing as a team (guild, VoIP, etc) as you would require skill and timing to get the most out of it (assuming that one 100% heal would be more than XXX zerg spam heals)
(edited by Mewa.5423)
Removing the aoe cap is a terrible idea why you ask, one reason and its the only reason necessary to counter your argument….. MASS HEALING, the enemy zerg that greatly outnumbers you would just out heal your damage. I think the fix on the issue you talk about was a mistake, the confusion from mesmers against blobs was a great tool to have and forced the blob to use condition removals more effectively now they can use it freely without the worry of confusion. But adding aoe cap removal to the confusion fix will only hinder the small groups more not improve anything.
Thing is, you’re focusing too heavily on “just remove the AoE cap, job done!”
There shouldn’t be a cap. It doesn’t mean that everything else won’t need tuning, it simply starts with the idea that when a player swings his sword, if there are 7 people in front of him, 7 people should take damage.
As it is the combat system doesn’t work. 5 squishies and 5 tanks in a ball. You’re going to hit 5; which ones will you hit with your AoE? Which ones would you want to hit? Do you have a choice in the way and to who your damage is applied? No. That’s broken.
Anet are smart enough to think of real mechanics to combat your fears… so the discussion should start with “This mechanic is lazy and fundamentally broken; what would it take to remove it?” and not “just removing it is a mistake!”.
Sorry, but the 1 spammers buy more trash from the Item Mall.
ps. the real reason for aoe cap is their weak servers.
Hi
As wvwvw turning atm organised groups lost a strong tool to be effective versus number 1 spamming blobs. I understand it felt unfair that one class would be the only to carry a tool to counter enemy zergs. Even if its sad to lost several viable and fun build and see two 1 h weps become unviable I have some understanding of the other classes, frustration.
Still as it looks now the mindless blobbing gets close to impossible to counter unless you have a simmilar blob of nr 1 spammers.
To keep wvwvw interesting its time to remove the AOE cap, this would force guilds to use more advanced tactics, spread the attacking force over a wider field and use a front force and a defending tail instead of one big pile. A smaler force would be able to keep a larger in chocke points ala 300 style and the terrain would have bigger impact.
It would also be a reason to use long distance aoe forces and keep em guarded in the back or on high ground versus big enemy teams.
/Osicat
Edited some spelling, sorry english not first langauge.
As simple as it sounds it will only bring additional problems to remove the cap unless Aoe damage takes a nerf otherwise ranged glass cannon and ranged aoe condition classes and builds will over dominate.
Easy fix to all of this…..
STOP ZERGING!
You people that run around in huge blobs should all have your heads examined. How is it fun or challenging? You think you are skilled? I just don’t get it and probably never will. It’s like asking why serial killers kill I guess.
I don’t know why these threads exist.
You really want everyone in wvw to play an elementalist or GTFO?
Or do you want AOE damage to do very little damage so it its ‘balanced’?
Do you want the return of ungodly lagstorms that lock a server down where you cannot do anything even press 1 or move while elementalists drop AE into your zergball? You think the lag is bad now? wait till the aoe cap is removed and it will be outright impossible. (Think T4 in WAR with brightwizards camping the only ramp up into the cap area – it was aweful)
The aoe cap really isn’t a problem, if you need to get around it use ballista and arrowcarts.
I can only support the removal of the aoe cap if they nurf the damage output very, very hard, like remove 90% of it.
You cannot give so much power to just one class. You balance people think balance is bad now, this would just rip the professions appart.
No thanks.
Elementalists already have the most powerful anti-zerg skill in the game: static field. It has no target cap and causes AoE stun.
Cleaving should be increased to 5 and aoe capped skills should be increased to 8 or 9.
The cap needs to be raised, not removed. Remove the cap and the game would just be absolutely ridiculous.
The way I see this could be balanced is that the AoE cap would be removed and the damage would be changed so that if the attack hits 5 or less people it would deal the same damage as it does now, and if it hits more, the sum of the damage 5 would take would be distributed evenly among everyone that’s hit. This way they could avoid having to entirely redesign half the classes.
I wouldn’t remove it, I’d just up it, slowly.
Like try 8 instead of 5. That change would make a big difference, that’s a lot of extra dps in large fights that exveryone would be doing.
And looks like they overnerfed confusion. I felt it needed changes made to it but I wouldn’t have ‘fixed it’ the way they are doing it.
I wouldn’t remove it, I’d just up it, slowly.
Like try 8 instead of 5. That change would make a big difference, that’s a lot of extra dps in large fights that exveryone would be doing.
And looks like they overnerfed confusion. I felt it needed changes made to it but I wouldn’t have ‘fixed it’ the way they are doing it.
This sounds better than huge, instant changes. 50% is an enormous number, whether justified or not.
Have any of you people played a game without AE caps? WoW at release? DAoC? It’s awful and those games were designed in a way to account for it. This game can’t handle it without enormous effort spent redesigning it from the ground up.
Up the offensive spell cap to 10, leave the defensive spell cap at 5 and call it a day. Any more than that and ANet isn’t prepared to adjust the game properly to make sure it works. Even increasing it to 10 is going to grossly overpower certain classes while invalidating the need for others.
The solution to this are diminishing returns. But that would actually require some programming effort and probably server ressources of course, it’s way easier to just hit everything with the nerf bat like they’ll do with confusion instead of working on a proper educated solution. See 3.3 Mechanics: http://www.wowwiki.com/Area_damage_caps
Either way, current WvW state is unacceptable. It`s a shame that ANet claims to denounce zerg play-style, yet does literally nothing to solve the problem. In my opinion, there should be introduced either penalties for blobbing up or ways of preventing it, like removing AoE cap, along with its damage adjustment. I wouldn`t like to spell a disaster, but in my opinion, with the upcoming confusion nerf, things are going into a wrong direction. Confusion is NOT overpowered, it actually does no or almost no harm. It`s hard for me to undestand how people who are spamming them to death earn their way to the devs and get the nerf bats into action. Such things should barely ever happen, unless you have an IQ of a concrete mixer.
Ironically confusion for entering/exiting glamor fields was one of the few abilities that completely ignored the aoe cap.
Sorry, but the 1 spammers buy more trash from the Item Mall.
And they are paying Anet’s bills so YOU can keep playing the game don’t forget that.
it didn’t completely, it would affect 5 targets per pulse, the pulses were quick though. If you ran 20 people through the edge at the exact same time, only 5 would get it. Kinda like veil.
it didn’t completely, it would affect 5 targets per pulse, the pulses were quick though. If you ran 20 people through the edge at the exact same time, only 5 would get it. Kinda like veil.
I’d suggest more than 5 people crossing the outside ring of a glamor field simultaneously literally never happened.
In any case I find it more than a little humorous that the same thread maligning the lack of tools for dealing with clumped up groups also praises the elimination of one of the best tools for doing just that.
Sorry, but the 1 spammers buy more trash from the Item Mall.
And they are paying Anet’s bills so YOU can keep playing the game don’t forget that.
Really? Strange that they didn’t need to do this crap in GW1.
Elementalists already have the most powerful anti-zerg skill in the game: static field. It has no target cap and causes AoE stun.
Very easy to avoid if you’re paying attention.
I’d prefer the AoE cap stayed. I remember DAoC and WAR all too well.
In any case I find it more than a little humorous that the same thread maligning the lack of tools for dealing with clumped up groups also praises the elimination of one of the best tools for doing just that.
nobody was praising it as far as I can see, just the opposite – AoE cap removal as a substitute for confusion. well substitute, more or less I`d say, because apart from the confusion nerf, removing AoE cap iz something that urges to be done. Nevertheless, the nerf stimulates such questions/thoughts and threads to show up.
ps. it wouldn`t let me write “AoE ca kitten omething” as it would turn ‘caP_IS_Something’ into a ‘kitten’
ps2. bloody hell.
(edited by Mewa.5423)
Elementalists are already the most powerful class in the game by a long way. Removing the AoE cap would turn them into gods.
Elementalists are already the most powerful class in the game by a long way. Removing the AoE cap would turn them into gods.
I think it would benefit staff/well necroes a lot more than it would ele’s. Ele fire staff 5 is so slow it would not benefit from no cap as it is so easy to dodge.
Elementalists are already the most powerful class in the game by a long way. Removing the AoE cap would turn them into gods.
It has been already mentioned, but I`ll repeat it once more – this isn`t about removing AoE cap solely, but also the rework of AoE skills so as to adapt them to the constraints being removed.
If ANet removed the AoE cap, it would be a game-breaking decision. I don’t think you’re thinking through the consequences of removing the cap….
I’ve never actually heard anyone complain about confusion in map chat! Theives, all the time; 3 hit 21k damage combos, perma stealthing, stealth spamming, etc, but confusion, honestly I can’t recall a single instance.
I don’t even play mesmer, but I feel sorry for them as confusion was readily countered.
yep, and now thieves get the reveal time reverted to 3 sec gets some love for S/D build, great job by Anet.
What do you think of increasing the AoE cap to 7-10? Because if it’s removed, everyone will play a AoE build and everything would be severely considered overpowered. You could stun a zerg of 40 lol. That doesn’t make sense.
If ANet removed the AoE cap, it would be a game-breaking decision. I don’t think you’re thinking through the consequences of removing the cap….
Perhaps, it depends how a variety of new problems would be solved (or not). If you ask me – I don`t care all that much about AoE cap as long as ANet addresses the problem of zergs and solve or at least try to solve it. Removing AoE ca kitten imply the only viable solution that comes to my mind at the moment.
What do you think of increasing the AoE cap to 7-10? Because if it’s removed, everyone will play a AoE build and everything would be severely considered overpowered. You could stun a zerg of 40 lol. That doesn’t make sense.
This is also kinda what I was thinking. I personally like the limit of 5 because things are very fun right now, the way they are. Any more…and I think it would impact gameplay too much…
As far as making sense goes, it probably would “make sense” that you could hit them all…but that wouldn’t be a fun way to play the game. As far as stuns go, I think a static field does currently work against a hole zerg. AFAIK there’s not a player limit on that, or on warding fields.
Correct me if I’m wrong though.
one of the problems that arises, if cap is taken, is that the strongest spells, damage-wise, happen to be the AOE ones instead of the single target.
If this happens, necromancers and guardians would be thhe only viable classes, spamming wells and heals left and right…
Or you could drop siege.
I actually disagree. Mainly because it would be super boring. Zergs would melt in seconds and the winner would be determined by who has the most eles. Just imagine a group of 30 sticking close together and run into another group of 30. Group A gets 3X meteor showers off. Auto win!
I think in order to de influence zerg mentality, things should be changed besides the AoE cap. The biggest is probably the CC. As it stands a small group of 5 doesn’t even stand a chance because they get CC’d/immobilized for a long time and die before they could react.
I’m ok with it if you give all melee permanent built-in 90% aoe damage reduction and -90% to condition duration for aoe conditions. Stacking with other damage-reduction abilities, ofc.
For millionth time – no. Worst idea ever.
TC was a bright wizard in Warhammer I guess. This could actually be fun if zergs didn’t run straight into AOEs, but they do and they will so the majority of people in the game would quit even though the guild groups would enjoy the game more.
@OP
Yes please remove AoE cap in gw2 .Retaliation will make you change ideea in about 1 second after the change and i will be somwhere laughing my guts out.
Group wide retaliation and stability from one guardian(“stand your ground!”).. Have fun throwing a meteor shower into that zerg, your face will melt, while they will shrug it off with the same guardian shouting “hold the line”.
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