Guild Wars 2

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

You are still missing the logic here

Weapon 1: does 50 damage, every second
Weapon 2: does 100 damage every 2 seconds

Weapon 1 hits you multiple times in 4 seconds.
Weapon 2 hits you only 2 times in 4 seconds

Both do the same damage to you

Faster weapons arent hitting you any harder over the course of them hitting you multiple times than a slower weapon is hitting you for with fewer hits. You just SEE damage numbers popping up over your head more frequently than with slower weapons.

No reason fast weapons should be penalized more in the case of confusion.

You seem to be missing my logic as well.

Cast 1 blind on weapon 2 = 0 damage every 2 seconds
Cast 1 blind on weapon = 150 damage every 2 seconds
Same applies to blocks or aegis..
This is why we need confusion and retalliation, because the counter what blinds and blocks cant.

Blind is a mechanic to prevent damage
Confusion is a mechanic to DO damage

trying to use one to justify the need for the other, doesnt really work

On that matter however, retailiation should do MORE damage to slower attacks, than faster ones for the same reasons as Im supporting for confusion.

Both retaliation and confusion should “hurt” players in a balanced and equal fashion regardless of their weapon speed.

So if someone with a 1 second attack takes 100 damage from retailiation, a person with a 2 second attack should take 200 damage. Over the course of 2 seconds, both take the same equal damage from retailiation.

I see so many complaints against confusion, it’s mind boggling that so many of you seem to struggle with this condition. I have NO problems handling confusion on ANY of my characters. It’s simple:

Pay attention to the conditions being applied to you
Don’t waste whatever cleanses you have IF you are fighting an opponent with a lot of condition damage
DON’T MINDLESSLY SPAM ABILITIES.

If a Mesmer (for example) dumps 7 stacks of confusion on I either cleanse or just wait it out. Don’t spam, don’t dodge roll. Just let them stand there looking at you. Confusion is awesome for catching people unawares, it punishes lazy players who feel they don’t need to watch what conditions are being applied.

Rather than calling for nerfs, learn about the condition being applied and counter by…well how can I put it…not being bad :p

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

You are still missing the logic here

Weapon 1: does 50 damage, every second
Weapon 2: does 100 damage every 2 seconds

Weapon 1 hits you multiple times in 4 seconds.
Weapon 2 hits you only 2 times in 4 seconds

Both do the same damage to you

Faster weapons arent hitting you any harder over the course of them hitting you multiple times than a slower weapon is hitting you for with fewer hits. You just SEE damage numbers popping up over your head more frequently than with slower weapons.

No reason fast weapons should be penalized more in the case of confusion.

You seem to be missing my logic as well.

Cast 1 blind on weapon 2 = 0 damage every 2 seconds
Cast 1 blind on weapon = 150 damage every 2 seconds
Same applies to blocks or aegis..
This is why we need confusion and retalliation, because the counter what blinds and blocks cant.

Blind is a mechanic to prevent damage
Confusion is a mechanic to DO damage

trying to use one to justify the need for the other, doesnt really work

On that matter however, retailiation should do MORE damage to slower attacks, than faster ones for the same reasons as Im supporting for confusion.

Both retaliation and confusion should “hurt” players in a balanced and equal fashion regardless of their weapon speed.

So if someone with a 1 second attack takes 100 damage from retailiation, a person with a 2 second attack should take 200 damage. Over the course of 2 seconds, both take the same equal damage from retailiation.

Yeah you dont get what Im saying at all.

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

You are still missing the logic here

Weapon 1: does 50 damage, every second
Weapon 2: does 100 damage every 2 seconds

Weapon 1 hits you multiple times in 4 seconds.
Weapon 2 hits you only 2 times in 4 seconds

Both do the same damage to you

Faster weapons arent hitting you any harder over the course of them hitting you multiple times than a slower weapon is hitting you for with fewer hits. You just SEE damage numbers popping up over your head more frequently than with slower weapons.

No reason fast weapons should be penalized more in the case of confusion.

You seem to be missing my logic as well.

Cast 1 blind on weapon 2 = 0 damage every 2 seconds
Cast 1 blind on weapon = 150 damage every 2 seconds
Same applies to blocks or aegis..
This is why we need confusion and retalliation, because the counter what blinds and blocks cant.

Blind is a mechanic to prevent damage
Confusion is a mechanic to DO damage

trying to use one to justify the need for the other, doesnt really work

On that matter however, retailiation should do MORE damage to slower attacks, than faster ones for the same reasons as Im supporting for confusion.

Both retaliation and confusion should “hurt” players in a balanced and equal fashion regardless of their weapon speed.

So if someone with a 1 second attack takes 100 damage from retailiation, a person with a 2 second attack should take 200 damage. Over the course of 2 seconds, both take the same equal damage from retailiation.

Yeah you dont get what Im saying at all.

I get it, i just dont agree with it. You are saying that fast weapons arent hindered by blind as much as much as slow weapons, thus, someone who uses blind, isnt protected by it as much by it if they are being hit with a faster weapon.

Im all for making blind something that works equal for both fast and slow weapons. Thats far more balanced than say, a bandaid solution that impliments an offensive ability like confusion, that KILLS a player twice as fast, just because, as you pointed out, blind is only half as affective against them. Its never good to use 1 imbalanced ability to justify another ability that may also not be properly balanced. Issue 1: Fix blind, issue 2: Fix confusion.

Well it’s not just half effective.. it’s actually around 10x as effective in the case of a hammer guard/warr and a pistol thief. They won’t change blind to how it was in gw1 (full duration and doesnt lose on first hit), unfortunately, but confusion is simply not meant to change based on how fast you hit. Besides, no one attacks while confused anyway.

Quoted: Someone with a faster weapon, like a showbow, in the same time given (2.5 to 3 seconds), would take damage about 4 to 5 times. So while slower attacking players would take 3550 damage before they said “oh drat, I need to stop attacking”, a player with a faster weapon will have taken as much as 8875 damage. while 3550 wasnt huge, 8875 damage in 3 seconds (not counting any other damage they are doing to you), is a LOT of damage. For someone with 20k life, they have now lost about 44% of their life. Same time to react, just hindered more by the systems game mechanics because it makes no attempt to balance or compensate attack speed vs damage for this ONE specific ability called confusion.(end quote)

So, let me get this straight- a skill that MIGHT inflict 44% of their life in 2-3 seconds is way OP and MUST be nerfed, because some people can’t realise they have it on them and don’t stop attacking during that period?

Mug/steal can do that damage FROM STEALTH in ONE hit with no chance of seeing it coming and no way to block it (unless u happen to have a block up at the time), followed immediately by more auto spammed macro’d skills and back into stealth to finish you off, so you can’t even use downed skills.

Retaliation is much more dangerous than confusion in pitched battles as it can be hard to see on targets you might be hitting but not specifically targetting.

Amen to this thread!

Confusion is definitely OP, mostly because whilst all of you ‘l2pers’ are sitting around waiting for confusion to fall off, you’re taking direct damage or dying from 6 other conditions. You can’t ‘cleanse’ when Confusion is hidden under 7 other or even 2 other conditions, because the last condition to ever be removed is always Confusion, everything else goes, but the most powerful one is omnipresent and impossible to get rid of.

I’ve only ever ever been beaten in 1vs1 against 3 different mesmers and 1 engineer, all of which were running, you guessed it, confusion builds! 3vs1? Easy, assuming it isn’t 3 backstab thieves. 3vs1 with one of the 3 being a confusion Mesmer/Engineer = death. Same with 2vs1 and same with 5vs1, a 10 second daze is just overpowered, and I can’t dodge because I take confusion damage, I can’t heal because I take confusion damage, half my healing gone from that, I can’t maintain pressure on the enemy because of confusion damage, and I can’t just stand there doing nothing because I die from all of the mesmer’s other skills, he won’t be sitting there on his kitten doing nothing either to be polite, of that I assure you.

Anything I do except for walk punishing me with 2k+ damage whilst the enemy can use all of his skills is just stupid, I have condition removal, 3 skills each removing one and 1 skill removing 3, but once those are all gone it’s useless, and most of them do nothing except remove the one stack of bleed I had, or stop me being blind or remove weakness, which is so important -.-

I would settle for a removal of procc on dodge and a priority removal on this, but something, at least, definitely needs to happen.

Faux Sheaux.6179:

OP raises as interesting point. Would be cool if you could actually designate which conditions take priority when removed.

Should not happen. There’s a reason why Sharper Images helps even with confusion bomber builds. It helps make sure that you put a ‘cover condition’ on the stack in front of the confusion to help make sure the confusion is at the bottom of the last-in-first-out stack of conditions. That way condition removals taking the first X off the top of the stack are less likely to adversely affect the confusion stacks you worked so hard to put on them.

It would be nice if condition removal would remove the most damaging conditions first. When it comes to reduced healing, how much it reduces healing could be counted as damage. Snares/chills become trickier, but could always give them a ‘damage weight’ for ordering.

This would effectively remove big stacks of confusion or bleeds, first. This could also be done client side. Ideally, we get a way to set what gets removed first because different classes have differing needs.

This is something that should be added to GW2, not because of confusion, but simply because it is a good idea that would make for better gameplay.

Confusion is fine. The obvious counter is to play a class that does next to no damage.

^ confusion doesn’t do damage relating to yours, it does it if you try to play :P

LOL – Turn auto attack off!!
If there is a mesmer about dont use quick skills- until u know theres no chance of serious confusion,
FOR a mesmer to do SERIOUS DAMAGE with Confusion they must be specc’d/equipped for it- LIMITING OTHER OPTIONS- Have u ever tried to condition damage any siege/doors?? – IT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!
There is NO Condition/tough/vit (unlike power/tough/vit) which means the mesmer is lacking in some form of defence if they have gone all out condition
You seem to be blaming/Questioning how OP a skill is – WHEN MAYBE its your OWN skill that should be questioned. Seriously become a better player and you will laugh at confusion mesmers- BECAUSE you will know how to fight them;
Next it will be how OP [Feedback] is because people kill themselves by pew pewing (and YES i have killed a couple of rangers by just using feedback)

Gadzooks.4687:

In the time it takes most weapons to attack twice (2 attacks, which seems like a fair judge of when someone would break target to avoid taking more confusion damage), my shortbow has attacked 5 times. Another mesmer above mentioned how he could make someone take 5000-6000 damage each for the first couple actions someone did after he put his stacks of confusion on. 5k damage is probably an extreme uber gear case here so….

A mes with 1500 cond damage, will do 355 damage per stack of confusion
3 stacks of confusion = 1065 damage
5 stacks of confusion (very easily achieved by most mesmers) = 1775 damage

If someone with a slower weapon stops their autoattack after taking damage twice (2.5 to 3 seconds roughly), then that means they take 3550. 3550 is in no way “OMGOPABILITY”, but it is a nice solid hit. For someone with 20k life, its close to 20% of that in 1 attack.

Someone with a faster weapon, like a showbow, in the same time given (2.5 to 3 seconds), would take damage about 4 to 5 times. So while slower attacking players would take 3550 damage before they said “oh drat, I need to stop attacking”, a player with a faster weapon will have taken as much as 8875 damage. while 3550 wasnt huge, 8875 damage in 3 seconds (not counting any other damage they are doing to you), is a LOT of damage. For someone with 20k life, they have now lost about 44% of their life. Same time to react, just hindered more by the systems game mechanics because it makes no attempt to balance or compensate attack speed vs damage for this ONE specific ability called confusion.

On the flip-side, I play a hammer warrior, with alot of slow, long-cooldown, hard-hitting attacks. A single blind or a single aegis can completely negate a huge amount of my damage output. Having a Backbreaker or an Earthshaker blocked can be the difference between a flawless victory and a massive defeat. While you pew-pewing away with your shortbow will barely be affected by a single blind. You probably wouldn’t even notice it had happened.

Omgwtf nerf Aegis, isn’t fair to slow attack rate players

Or, accept that all builds and playstyles should have a counter, and things they are strong against. Confusion/retaliation are the counter to your playstyle, while I barely notice them; block/blind/evade are the counter to mine, while they barely affect you. This is what we call balance.

PS. as a melee character I would love the ability to set condi-removal priority. Get that frozen removed instead of pointlessly removing that harmless confusion :P

so i guess what we’re asking for is an SAB style of combat? and without new skills unlokcing, mind youD

pointy sticks for everyone!!!! poke away, my valiant soldiers. poke away.

i used to get owned by confusion all the time. so i read up about it. asked my mesmer friends about it. now i don’t die AS often. but i’ve still much to learn.

Bananasmile.4126:

Confusion is fine, you just have to practice more that’s all, it’s easy to deal with. I have a Mesmer, used to run confusion staff/scepter+focus build, but now staff/sword+focus hybrid shatter.

Confusion doesn’t have any direct impact on my current build of my mesmer. Just saying that before I get accused of protecting my build. Anyway, people complain about many things. Confusion is not that hard to deal with. I can handle confusion mesmers easily with my Guardian because I can outheal their confusion, #3 scepter skill is stupidly easy to dodge, as well as their confusion shatters. With my guardian’s dual sigil of energy, plus a vigor trait, I’m literally a dodging machine with tons of healing and 100% up on retal. So this means, that confusion you’re afraid of, won’t even dent me, and even if I make a mistake and it does eat a chunk of my HP, my HP goes right back up in a single dodge or two, while his H kitten lowly depleting on constant rate and last time I checked mesmer heals are on a 15-20 second interval. Confusion is not OP, I laugh at confusion when I’m on my guardian. Playing smart help a lot…which means not running through the bubbles and picking your shots…mesmers have little to no CC…that means you are free to create distance and not be mesmerized by their multitude of clones and combos Stop complaining…and practice. Stop asking the game to adjust to your learning curve, as I’ve been owned a lot of times when my mesmer was still confusion, so there are a LOT of players who knows how to deal with it. Peace.

^^ EXACTLY)

Immolator.5640:

Amen to this thread!

Confusion is definitely OP, mostly because whilst all of you ‘l2pers’ are sitting around waiting for confusion to fall off, you’re taking direct damage or dying from 6 other conditions. You can’t ‘cleanse’ when Confusion is hidden under 7 other or even 2 other conditions, because the last condition to ever be removed is always Confusion, everything else goes, but the most powerful one is omnipresent and impossible to get rid of.

I’ve only ever ever been beaten in 1vs1 against 3 different mesmers and 1 engineer, all of which were running, you guessed it, confusion builds! 3vs1? Easy, assuming it isn’t 3 backstab thieves. 3vs1 with one of the 3 being a confusion Mesmer/Engineer = death. Same with 2vs1 and same with 5vs1, a 10 second daze is just overpowered, and I can’t dodge because I take confusion damage, I can’t heal because I take confusion damage, half my healing gone from that, I can’t maintain pressure on the enemy because of confusion damage, and I can’t just stand there doing nothing because I die from all of the mesmer’s other skills, he won’t be sitting there on his kitten doing nothing either to be polite, of that I assure you.

Anything I do except for walk punishing me with 2k+ damage whilst the enemy can use all of his skills is just stupid, I have condition removal, 3 skills each removing one and 1 skill removing 3, but once those are all gone it’s useless, and most of them do nothing except remove the one stack of bleed I had, or stop me being blind or remove weakness, which is so important -.-

I would settle for a removal of procc on dodge and a priority removal on this, but something, at least, definitely needs to happen.

So you’ve only ever been beaten in a 1v1 vs 4 different people, all who ran confusion builds, and Confusion is overpowered?

If you’re having trouble vs confusion builds..Lemongrass with Melandru runes. That’ll take care most of the Confusions in the game as they’re generally low duration.

I think PI I use in my videos probably has the longest duration (7 seconds with 50% duration)

Confusion needs a nerf.

Infact mesmers in general needs to make sweet love to the nerf bat

Just get it over with. Nerf everything already. We all need to be hitting each other with feathers and the only AoE that should be allowed is a fart.

Alodar.5794:

If you’re losing to a confusion mesmers, you’re failing at this game, terribly. It’s YOUR fault…

Learn to remove conditions. If your group isn’t spec’d to remove large amounts of condition… YOU are doing it wrong.

I would be embarrassed to die to confusion… I am NOT a mesmer.

It’s a VERY simply ability to A) Remove and Take no damage from.

So many people must fail at this game, with the combination of shatter/heals removing conditions and prolonged and traited confusion stacks.. lol at the numbers I get.. I guess having my 28k health doesn’t hurt either. ;P

Ruprect.7260:

I have never been killed by confusion in WvW.

Protip – Stop attacking.

Pretty easy to get blown up when you do that, but that goes back to my point that it should stack in duration instead of intensity, since the intensity stacking is the real reason why it is such a devastating condition, not always, but enough of the time.

Pinko.2076:

The setup for applying that burst is very easy to dodge, stunbreak dodge if they’re awake, teleport, stability, or just condition removal. Frequent application of confusion are what matters in low numbers or 1v1, not one burst heavy stack.

Absolutely. An Engineer is nowhere as bad as a Mesmer as his Confusion is much more limited to how many targets it affects. Prybar is single-target, Static Shot bounces 4x and is capped, and Conc. Bomb needs you to be awefully close to your enemy, something i wouldnt risk against a group of enemies.

Compared to Mesmer, no, no contest. But his story does illustrate the issue with Confusion hitting awefully hard. Nerfing Confusion would be a nerf to Engineer who most certainly dont need one.
But something has to be done regardless. Dont get me wrong i love slapping a Thief with some conditions, stack up Confusion and watch him enter stealth with 75% health and exit stealth downed 4seconds later.

But right now, in WvW, Confusion puts to much of a punishment on simply being active. And wasnt the main idea behind GW2 that you dont sit still spamming a single button, but that you are always moving around dodging and stuff?
Something they already realized and consequently nerfed Confusion in sPvP.

A nerf wouldnt do it here. Confusion is already to meager in PvE as it is, either they seperate the rules between PvE and WvW or they go for a redesign behind Confusion.

I get killed by immobilize a lot more than I get killed by confusion, can we nerf that first please? It’s definitely the most powerful condition in the game.

ITT: “I don’t run any condition clears, and don’t pay attention to my boons/conditions anyway” and “Let’s nerf an entire build because I don’t want to adapt my playstyle to it”

Yeah, it’s a strong build. I bet you guys complaining about it would never try one of the more powerful builds for your class, because then you would be OP and that just wouldn’t be fair to the other players.

People complain about Confusion just like they did with TI and Mass Betrayal in Rift…People like to spam abilities….They also don’t like to pay attention.

Confusion is the magic condition that only kills bad players. if you are a button mashing zerging baddie then confusion will kill you. If you don’t have enough intelligence to see the BRIGHT PURPLE numbers flashing up on your screen and stop attacking for a few seconds then you deserve to die. Seriously we have had this conversation so many times. Confusion is so easy to deal with. JUST DO NOTHING! it will go away!

Icelut.3509:

Confusion is the magic condition that only kills bad players. if you are a button mashing zerging baddie then confusion will kill you. If you don’t have enough intelligence to see the BRIGHT PURPLE numbers flashing up on your screen and stop attacking for a few seconds then you deserve to die. Seriously we have had this conversation so many times. Confusion is so easy to deal with. JUST DO NOTHING! it will go away!

Here a challenge :

Meet a confusion engineer, get hit by confusion.

Stand there doing nothing.

Now you are dead from burn/bleed/direct damage after 5-10 sec, while the confusion duration is 10 second for each application, can be applied each 12-15 second.

Good tips man.

Xsorus.2507:

People complain about Confusion just like they did with TI and Mass Betrayal in Rift…People like to spam abilities….They also don’t like to pay attention.

Sorry to double post, didn’t see your post Xsorus.

I find it weird coming from you.

After all, you are that guy that made 10 video with ranger build that ALWAYS use pain inventer.

Oh Pain inventer? You mean the racial ability that AoE stack confusion?

Yep, seems a bit biased if you ask me.

Same thing with Henrik, who says people are bad if they die to confusion. And yet he is maining a mesmer.

I’m not saying confusion is over the board because I die from it. I do die from it, but the main reason is because I used to kill everybody with it.

Hell, I made a freaking build focusing entirely on confusion :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Demented-Engineer-WvW-Build

I advocating a tune down, because it shouldn’t proc on every a player do and do those kind of damage. Shouldn’t proc on dodge and thing like that.

How about this simple principle:

confusion should hit if you use ATTACKING skills… not when using non-damaging defensive skills.

Because let’s face it: if you do nothing for 5 to 8 seconds you still take a crapload of other damage.
Not to mention as an engineer I could easily put on a new stack of confusion on you from a different kit just after you remove the first.

Kimbald.2697:

How about this simple principle:

confusion should hit if you use ATTACKING skills… not when using non-damaging defensive skills.

Because let’s face it: if you do nothing for 5 to 8 seconds you still take a crapload of other damage.
Not to mention as an engineer I could easily put on a new stack of confusion on you from a different kit just after you remove the first.

I like this idea.

Loco.4561:

I see so many complaints against confusion, it’s mind boggling that so many of you seem to struggle with this condition. I have NO problems handling confusion on ANY of my characters. It’s simple:

Pay attention to the conditions being applied to you
Don’t waste whatever cleanses you have IF you are fighting an opponent with a lot of condition damage
DON’T MINDLESSLY SPAM ABILITIES.

If a Mesmer (for example) dumps 7 stacks of confusion on I either cleanse or just wait it out. Don’t spam, don’t dodge roll. Just let them stand there looking at you. Confusion is awesome for catching people unawares, it punishes lazy players who feel they don’t need to watch what conditions are being applied.

Rather than calling for nerfs, learn about the condition being applied and counter by…well how can I put it…not being bad :p

Sadly its not this simple, and if u read the entire thread u will hear from extremely experienced PvPers why Confusion is OP and needs to be sorted out.

The fact that Confusion is nerfed by 50% in PvP shows that the devs know something is wrong. The question here is why its not nerfed in WvW also.

The opinion that players should simply ;pay attention really doesnt hold water. The entire Confusion mechanic is a very unskilled ability with massive yield on return. In Zerging it does the most damage by a mile over all other AoE.

Therefore, surely we should be rewarding players who must target individuals and time their attacks more than the simplest ability which u just dump onto a group of the enemy?

Turn up singletarget attacks and turndown AoE.

TLDR: this isnt a thread writtemn by QQers who cant handle Confusion, its written by peoploe who understand PvP fully whose opinion is that Confusion is OP and needs to be redesigned.

Here is my biggest thing from watching people I have fought on my mesmer or on any of my characters. I have seen to many stupid people to believe that it is as bad as people say. I have watched videos of confusion mesmers and wvw and I have ran the build myself. So often people cause a lot of it themselves. It really remind me of how some mmos have spoiled people with the flashing buttons of what to hit and what to avoid to the point of being idiot proof yet there are still people that fail at that.
-Side point I have a whole reflection/retaliation build that I sometimes run to be a distraction and will just run into zergs or trench fights and watch people down themselves on me.

I will admit they need to fix it so traited dodges stop procing but the rest of it is fine.

F2 and scepter beam are both very easy abilities to dodge, which then no confusion is applied. But to often I watch people just stand there or run straight head on into them and don’t bother to dodge or anything and just eat them that is there own fault at that point.

Same thing goes for glamors they each apply 2 confusion if you run in and out of them once, added to whatever each field also causes. Yet in zergs, open field, and sieges I have watched people be oblivious to the giant purple circles and either stand in them or run in and out constantly and kill themselves. The biggest thing I see and find hilarious is people that stay inside feedback and shoot themselves. I had to chew out a thief from my server once for trying to blame it on confusion and such when I watched him use the P/P unload and almost kill himself. Again I have watched countless zergs that have run head on through glamors and killed themselves my favorite is the looping zergs I place portal entre which last for 60secs and each time they run through that is 2 stacks.

On the other hand I have seen zergs run through but handle it well. For instance AGG from I believe BG they had guardians, necros and mesmers working well to the point that we couldn’t keep conditions on them. On approach they would put down the aoe cleanses so that they were down before confusion application for the first contact then after they would keep them going so that as they trained and moved they would be running through them. I think the highest I saw for confusion ticks was a 1k on a few people otherwise it was gone fast and that is from a series of fights for an hour. A lot of time their necros and the mesmers with null field were in the back lines and wouldn’t even have confusion and could cleanse everyone else and the whole group was kitten quick on the cleanses also.

Other choices for instance you can run the sigil that i use when Im running a power crit build that xfers conditions.

Also if it is mesmer on mesmer I almost always have arcane thievery and that is hilarious to use. I once in a 5v5 brawl at a sentry gave a 20 stack of confusion and a 15stack of bleed to another mesmer and watched him melt.

In the end it it kind of reminds me of confused in pokemon from gen II, I use to have bitter berries on me like crazy because it was so annoying, you could gamble but really 1 turn was better than 4 turns of punching yourself in the face. Same thing all my builds for all my characters of some form of cleansing and I run with people who also have cleanses.

@RevengeSeeker

100nade was easy to dodge too.

Where is it now?

People assuming I have any dodges left in a 5v5+ fight just for your confu burst.. yeah right.

So Editing my last post didn’t seem to work so
@Endemonadia here is my thing about pointing at the spvp nerf. Spvp and wvw are to different beasts and the one issue is that pve and wvw are tired so you nerf for one it is applied to the other, also mesmers aren’t the only one who uses confusion.

Now Im probably gonna get chewed for this but yes there is no skill once confusion is applied but it takes skill to apply it. F2 and scepter beam are both dodgeable with f2 requiring up to 3 illusions which have to run to the target and are quite easy to kill. Against a zerg unless you are already in the middle of it the front line is gonna clean them out.
There are plenty of ways to have dodges or abilities available, Vigor, Energy Sigil, and some classes have traits. Also there are abilities that stop the applying of confusion also, like any skill that causes, block, evade, invulnerable.
Glamors can cause a max of 6 confusion (provided you don’t run back into them) with using all 3 slots, but frankly imo that is dumb because then you have no stun breaks except phase retreat. So with 2 you are looking at 4 stacks from them. For arguments sake ill use the 6 stack, which with my condition damage would be about 1900 damage. The way confusion falls off is a timer for each stack so based of glamors that is sets of (1,2)(3,4)(5,6) based on reaction time and from experience after the last glamor there is about a half a second before the 6 stack drops to 4.

I will say this though I agree a 100% nerf or imo bug fix would be so traited dodges, attunements, kits no longer proc confusion. I will go this far and say if I was to meet in the middle I would say make like 75% or 80% of toughness damage reduction be applied to condition damage. Then the damage is lower and at the same time it is not completely worthless like in spvp. I will say this though I think any skill slot except healing should proc it because you are technically confused so anything you do could backfire on you.

TL:DR imo a lot of people just need to be more aware and pay attention. Also I will say I agree a 100% nerf or imo bug fix would be so traited dodges , attunements, kits no longer proc confusion. I will go this far and say if I was to meet in the middle I would say make like 75% or 80% of toughness damage reduction be applied to condition damage. Then it is not worthless but at the same time unless your face smashing your keyboard you are not gonna nuke yourself.

Kimbald.2697:

How about this simple principle:

confusion should hit if you use ATTACKING skills… not when using non-damaging defensive skills.

Because let’s face it: if you do nothing for 5 to 8 seconds you still take a crapload of other damage.
Not to mention as an engineer I could easily put on a new stack of confusion on you from a different kit just after you remove the first.

See this is the kind of thing that is workable. Punishes people who don’t pay attention and yet gives a viable counter to people that do.

Even just keeping it from firing on dodge rolls, attunement(kit too? not sure if it does) switches, and heal slot abilities would be work.

RevengeSeeker.7208:

In the end it it kind of reminds me of confused in pokemon from gen II, I use to have bitter berries on me like crazy because it was so annoying, you could gamble but really 1 turn was better than 4 turns of punching yourself in the face. Same thing all my builds for all my characters of some form of cleansing and I run with people who also have cleanses.

Umm really, a pokemon reference? Wow

Here’s a video of some confusion in action.
http://youtu.be/GPVcoo5cFSs

Confusion is great against people who decide to actually fight you. Not so great for people who decide to not attack, as mesmers really don’t have any sort of stopping power and anyone can really get away if they wanted to.

Overall, it is very powerful. If nerfed, I think something would have to be added to it to make it at least semi-viable.

covenn.7165:

Umm really, a pokemon reference? Wow

I know when it popped into my head I realized how long ago that reference was (2000) and felt old but it was a example of something I figured a large bracket of ages would know and get.

@osif Ill have to watch the video again when Im not at work for the most part that looked like a condition build not so much confusion focused. I think the highest stack I saw was 8 and a lot of his damage came from the damage of everything. Also I am really surprised by how much the people he fought just stood in his aoes the whole duration. The one guy in the first part just hammers away at him during chaos armor in the middle of a chaos storm.

Playing devils advocate when I get home Ill find a better one where this mesmer destroys people with some 10+ stacks. At the same time though being objective all you see our the persons victories and some of the opponents are just plain dumb like the overzealous gs warrior.

RevengeSeeker.7208:

covenn.7165:

Umm really, a pokemon reference? Wow

I know when it popped into my head I realized how long ago that reference was (2000) and felt old but it was a example of something I figured a large bracket of ages would know and get.

also the first time I hear Pokemon being tied to feeling old…

Kimbald.2697:

also the first time I hear Pokemon being tied to feeling old…

Well the version I made a reference to was from 2000 which was 13yrs ago and I remembered playing it in like fifth or sixth grade. Okay probably a better wording would have been feeling older, because I’m no old man but still 13yrs ago is still 13yrs.

RevengeSeeker.7208:

Kimbald.2697:

also the first time I hear Pokemon being tied to feeling old…

Well the version I made a reference to was from 2000 which was 13yrs ago and I remembered playing it in like fifth or sixth grade. Okay probably a better wording would have been feeling older, because I’m no old man but still 13yrs ago is still 13yrs.

don’t sweat it, just messing about

What I don’t understand is how people can think this is completely fine?

Lets see – it proccs when you dodge, it proccs when you attack, it proccs when you heal it proccs when you change attunement it proccs when you do pretty much anything. Sitting still and doing nothing is a completely stupid and illogical solution when you’re in the midst of combat and fighting for your life, you can not sit still and do nothing for 10 seconds. I fight many 1vs3 or 1vs5 fights, if one of them is a confusion Mesmer/engineer I have by default lost that fight, by the same token if 2+ are backstab bursts thieves then I’ve probably lost the fight, but that’s acceptable because no one can win against 2 or more thieves unless they’re really bad, pretty much because they’re impossible to finish, shadow refuge from both of them makes it even more so.

Confusion needs changing.

confusion DOES hurt alot when its being put on me. I mainly run a support guardian using runes of the soldier at the moment, however I dont have any problems removing conditions or heal up against it using my build with shouts, altruistic healing and as I said, condition removal using runes of the soldier.

also, you might want to run some food that gives you some nice heal, and shouldn’t run pure glass cannon in WvW (dont want to start a discussion on this one) whereas a tanky build can easily outsurvive a enemy using a confusion build with as high condition damage/condition duration as possible.

I dont run confusion builds myself, and I played Guildwars 1 for a long period of time, and in my opinion people should learn to look behind the known tactics and start to find their own way of fighting against stuff rather than complaining all the time stuff is overpowered…

Confusion and mesmers are the most OP WvW class and abilities

Nerf confusion to sPvP damage and then nerf the ability to stack it. After this we’ll look ibto gutting phantasms.

Engis will be next specifically hgh

Mesmers eat any “tank” build alive and confusion is only a small part of how!

the original post is specifically posting about Glamour builds I’m pretty sure which is a totally different beast and a 50% confusion damage nerf wouldn’t actually do much to that builds purpose but w/e

One poster covered it pretty well- both necros and mesmers have some very powerful counters to conditions. But it seems a lot of mesmers don’t want to run around in wvw with null field, which is a shame as it only ever leaves my bar for portal when we’re going somewhere specific and it’s asked for on TS/in guild chat.

Well organised teams have guardians and necros and mesmers in them to remove all this confusion etc and those that can play and are organised as part of a good guild team will slaughter the pugs and the solo artists who moan about anything that means they can’t be leet solo’ers.

Confusion only does so much damage if you and your team fail to deal with it. Learn to play team orientated builds, learn when to combo skills etc and learn to play in a larger guild with voice comms and you will not only enjoy the game much more but you will also learn more about the game.

I dont think people understood the point I was going for. If you have fought a good mesmer 1v1 who stacks confusion, you know why its “OP.” I had 1 remove all, and 3 remove 1 conditions on low CD. Since mesmers give a ton of just random useless conditions from spec, you can never reliably remove the confusion. and they can get you up to 12 stacks in 1 burst easily.

The damage isnt that “OP”, its the fact that My removal skills all target bleeding, then vulnerability, then poison then burning, then cripple, then whatever they want after that. Confusion NEEDS to be right after bleeding, so that if no bleeds and 4 other conditions, it removes confusion.

Its utterly stupid to have 12 stacks of confusion, and my 3 single remove conditions remove 1 bleed stack, weakness, and a cripple.

Confusion isnt OP in itself, its the fact that there is a tier for conditional removals and they get removed in order of “importance,” Confusion is at the bottom of the list, so you can only remove it with a remove all, or if no other condition is on you

Immolator.5640:

What I don’t understand is how people can think this is completely fine?

Lets see – it proccs when you dodge, it proccs when you attack, it proccs when you heal it proccs when you change attunement it proccs when you do pretty much anything. Sitting still and doing nothing is a completely stupid and illogical solution when you’re in the midst of combat and fighting for your life, you can not sit still and do nothing for 10 seconds. I fight many 1vs3 or 1vs5 fights, if one of them is a confusion Mesmer/engineer I have by default lost that fight, by the same token if 2+ are backstab bursts thieves then I’ve probably lost the fight, but that’s acceptable because no one can win against 2 or more thieves unless they’re really bad, pretty much because they’re impossible to finish, shadow refuge from both of them makes it even more so.

Confusion needs changing.

I agree that confusion would be less frustrating if it didn’t proc on dodge skills, and eles have it particularly bad in some scenarios. For example, tornado procs confusion way too much. Attunement changes seem to get hit too hard as well, but I haven’t been able to test that. Things like that should certainly be changed. Let’s start with the obvious.

As an experienced engineer, I do win a majority of my 1v1s. Part of that is because I’ve practiced and refined my spec a lot, and part of it is because I’m built almost completely for small fights. Part of it is because I have all exotic/ascended gear. I’ve also spent a lot of time in tournaments, so I know every profession’s mechanics, weapon skills, common utilities, and attack animations. But I would never in my life dream of taking on three or five people at once and succeeding, no matter what specs they had or didn’t have. Which build is OP again?

CrassBippy.4619:

Confusion isnt OP in itself, its the fact that there is a tier for conditional removals and they get removed in order of “importance,” Confusion is at the bottom of the list, so you can only remove it with a remove all, or if no other condition is on you

Condition removal skills actually remove the most recent condition applied to you. It’s a pretty decent system because it allows for a highly skilled opponent to “cover” his most important conditions with weaker ones, while still allowing the other player to know which of his conditions will be removed. For example, any large stack of bleeding will almost always be removed first because it is constantly being refreshed; it is almost always the most recent one applied. Something like a long poison can be hard to get rid of.

It’s also a good system because it usually prevents a condition removal skill being wasted on a condition that was about to expire naturally, since there was probably something else applied more recently.

I have a Glamour mesmer (confusion based) as well as several other classes that I play extensively in WvW. I dont have much problem countering confusion or applying it. There are multiple ways to tell whether you have it on you and all classes can counter it. I don’t have any problem on any of my toons. Perhaps a retreat skill would be better than a clense in a given circumstance?

Don’t get me wrong, confusion is a powerful condition, and it will force you to do something. But there are plenty of things you can do about it.

Instead of nerfing confusion I would Buff every singly other condition except vulnerability (since it sort of mirrors might). Condition builds in this game are garbage. I would make Burning remove boons every time a new stack is applied, and sap endurance . Poison’s heal debuff stack in intensity (every stack = 10% decrease in effective heals up to 70%). Blindness could block 50% of the attacks in a channel. Certain classes would need minor buffs in thier condition removal but I think even with these changes condition builds would be less prevalent than cheese zerker and lamekitten bunker builds.

Nerf confusion hell no!
Buff other conditions? Yes Please.