Guild Wars 2

Endemonadia.8593:

Loco.4561:

I see so many complaints against confusion, it’s mind boggling that so many of you seem to struggle with this condition. I have NO problems handling confusion on ANY of my characters. It’s simple:

Pay attention to the conditions being applied to you
Don’t waste whatever cleanses you have IF you are fighting an opponent with a lot of condition damage
DON’T MINDLESSLY SPAM ABILITIES.

If a Mesmer (for example) dumps 7 stacks of confusion on I either cleanse or just wait it out. Don’t spam, don’t dodge roll. Just let them stand there looking at you. Confusion is awesome for catching people unawares, it punishes lazy players who feel they don’t need to watch what conditions are being applied.

Rather than calling for nerfs, learn about the condition being applied and counter by…well how can I put it…not being bad :p

Sadly its not this simple, and if u read the entire thread u will hear from extremely experienced PvPers why Confusion is OP and needs to be sorted out.

The fact that Confusion is nerfed by 50% in PvP shows that the devs know something is wrong. The question here is why its not nerfed in WvW also.

The opinion that players should simply ;pay attention really doesnt hold water. The entire Confusion mechanic is a very unskilled ability with massive yield on return. In Zerging it does the most damage by a mile over all other AoE.

Therefore, surely we should be rewarding players who must target individuals and time their attacks more than the simplest ability which u just dump onto a group of the enemy?

Turn up singletarget attacks and turndown AoE.

TLDR: this isnt a thread writtemn by QQers who cant handle Confusion, its written by peoploe who understand PvP fully whose opinion is that Confusion is OP and needs to be redesigned.

You know whats an unskilled mechanic? steal+CnD+backstab…but it still hasn’t been nerfed.

I always remove bleeding stacks with my condition removal if I have it, 100% of the time with my cond removal skills. I’m not 100% on this but I’m pretty sure it prioritizes certain cond.

If not, it should. That’s supposed to be a counter to cond builds…. Removal. Why shouldn’t it prioritize certain ones?

Take notice of what conditions are stacked on you before you mindlessly attack and stop coming to the forums asking for peoples classes to be nerfed just because your too dumb.

I don’t know why we even waste time talking about a broken overpower system… Confusion need to be nerf hard and everyone knows it.

Endemonadia.8593:

Loco.4561:

I see so many complaints against confusion, it’s mind boggling that so many of you seem to struggle with this condition. I have NO problems handling confusion on ANY of my characters. It’s simple:

Pay attention to the conditions being applied to you
Don’t waste whatever cleanses you have IF you are fighting an opponent with a lot of condition damage
DON’T MINDLESSLY SPAM ABILITIES.

If a Mesmer (for example) dumps 7 stacks of confusion on I either cleanse or just wait it out. Don’t spam, don’t dodge roll. Just let them stand there looking at you. Confusion is awesome for catching people unawares, it punishes lazy players who feel they don’t need to watch what conditions are being applied.

Rather than calling for nerfs, learn about the condition being applied and counter by…well how can I put it…not being bad :p

Sadly its not this simple, and if u read the entire thread u will hear from extremely experienced PvPers why Confusion is OP and needs to be sorted out.

The fact that Confusion is nerfed by 50% in PvP shows that the devs know something is wrong. The question here is why its not nerfed in WvW also.

The opinion that players should simply ;pay attention really doesnt hold water. The entire Confusion mechanic is a very unskilled ability with massive yield on return. In Zerging it does the most damage by a mile over all other AoE.

Therefore, surely we should be rewarding players who must target individuals and time their attacks more than the simplest ability which u just dump onto a group of the enemy?

Turn up singletarget attacks and turndown AoE.

TLDR: this isnt a thread writtemn by QQers who cant handle Confusion, its written by peoploe who understand PvP fully whose opinion is that Confusion is OP and needs to be redesigned.

The thread does have a lot of experienced people coming to it, I agree. Many of those experienced players are pointing out how easy confusion is to counter. They’re also pointing out, rightfully so, that it’s a learn to play issue. That experience will go a long way in overcoming confusion builds. That confusion is a spec that sacrifices pretty much everything else. There’s also the fact that confusion is powerful against certain builds, and not others. High DPS, high toughness, low health pool players are easy pray. You know, the condition prone ones. Conditions are the intended counter to those guys, and there are tons of them running all over WvW. Funny that.

What I have seen a lot of from your so called “experienced pvp’rs” is the false claim that confusion has been nerfed in spvp. It’s repeated over and over despite people correcting the statement. Anyone half informed about confusion knows that confusion has been buffed in pve, and thus wvw.

Confusion, for the most part (if not entirely), is working as intended.

RevengeSeeker.7208:

In the end it it kind of reminds me of confused in pokemon from gen II, I use to have bitter berries on me like crazy because it was so annoying, you could gamble but really 1 turn was better than 4 turns of punching yourself in the face. Same thing all my builds for all my characters of some form of cleansing and I run with people who also have cleanses.

This thread got owned by a pokemon refrence

knight.8926:

You know whats an unskilled mechanic? steal+CnD+backstab…but it still hasn’t been nerfed.

So Theives must setup their kill by pre-stealthing, target, get behind their target, then perform a series of abilities in order to kill thier target…

Compare this to dumping an AoE circle in an area on top of a massive group of enemy where u dont have to do any setup, u dont have to target the enemy and u dont have to attack that enemy from the a particular side…

And ur saying that Theives attack is equally as skill-less as using confusion?

I repeat, Confusion does WAAAAY too much damage for a skill-less and passive ability. Too much damage for something u dont have to even think about when u use it.

NOTE: i agree the Dagger Thieves might need a nerf but this cannot be in any way called a skill-less ability.

Endemonadia.8593:

knight.8926:

You know whats an unskilled mechanic? steal+CnD+backstab…but it still hasn’t been nerfed.

So Theives must setup their kill by pre-stealthing, target, get behind their target, then perform a series of abilities in order to kill thier target…

Compare this to dumping an AoE circle in an area on top of a massive group of enemy where u dont have to do any setup, u dont have to target the enemy and u dont have to attack that enemy from the a particular side…

And ur saying that Theives attack is equally as skill-less as using confusion?

I repeat, Confusion does WAAAAY too much damage for a skill-less and passive ability. Too much damage for something u dont have to even think about when u use it.

NOTE: i agree the Dagger Thieves might need a nerf but this cannot be in any way called a skill-less ability.

If a bunch of glamour circles came up all around/over you, and you ran straight through them, turned around, ran back out, turned around, ran through them again, and never fired a skill, exactly how much damage did those 30+ second cd skills do to you?

When I’m on my necro, I usually laugh at any mesmer attempting to duel with confusion. Staff #4, Dagger #4 and Plague Signet make it too easy to send confusion back where it came from (even if the mesmer uses arcane thievery).

Ross Biddle.2367:

Endemonadia.8593:

knight.8926:

You know whats an unskilled mechanic? steal+CnD+backstab…but it still hasn’t been nerfed.

So Theives must setup their kill by pre-stealthing, target, get behind their target, then perform a series of abilities in order to kill thier target…

Compare this to dumping an AoE circle in an area on top of a massive group of enemy where u dont have to do any setup, u dont have to target the enemy and u dont have to attack that enemy from the a particular side…

And ur saying that Theives attack is equally as skill-less as using confusion?

I repeat, Confusion does WAAAAY too much damage for a skill-less and passive ability. Too much damage for something u dont have to even think about when u use it.

NOTE: i agree the Dagger Thieves might need a nerf but this cannot be in any way called a skill-less ability.

If a bunch of glamour circles came up all around/over you, and you ran straight through them, turned around, ran back out, turned around, ran through them again, and never fired a skill, exactly how much damage did those 30+ second cd skills do to you?

What has this got to do with how skilled or unskilled Confusion is to use?

i like how people talk about damage being the #1 strength of confusion when the strength of confusion is forcing you to do no actions for an extended amount of time even if you are getting attacked by x people

The mechanic isn’t fun and you’re dense if you think that its fair to use a defensive skill and be penalized for it. You should be punished if you do a wrong action, not if you do an action for 10 seconds because someone just threw glamor fields on you. Its reasons like this that this game failed in esports while games like LoL succeeded easily

I would like to sum up this thread:

Nerf confusion because my class can beat ANYTHING (even 3v1!) except confusion mesmers (and he says they need a nerf…)

Nerf confusion…just because.

Nerf confusion because nr 1 isn’t an attack!! (Oh God, best one in the whole thread imo).

Nerf confusion because sometimes I don’t see it…

Nerf confusion because my 3 condition removals are on cooldown.

I say, remove everything unique from every class and give everyone a nr 1 which is a wet noodle attack becasue people would be crying about someone else having a better nr1 than them.

Sorry to the people who tried to bring legit arguments – I hope, if something is nerfed, the devs listen to you and delete the other really embarassing posts.

Kardiamond.6952:

Xsorus.2507:

People complain about Confusion just like they did with TI and Mass Betrayal in Rift…People like to spam abilities….They also don’t like to pay attention.

Sorry to double post, didn’t see your post Xsorus.

I find it weird coming from you.

After all, you are that guy that made 10 video with ranger build that ALWAYS use pain inventer.

Oh Pain inventer? You mean the racial ability that AoE stack confusion?

Yep, seems a bit biased if you ask me.

Same thing with Henrik, who says people are bad if they die to confusion. And yet he is maining a mesmer.

I’m not saying confusion is over the board because I die from it. I do die from it, but the main reason is because I used to kill everybody with it.

Hell, I made a freaking build focusing entirely on confusion :

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Demented-Engineer-WvW-Build

I advocating a tune down, because it shouldn’t proc on every a player do and do those kind of damage. Shouldn’t proc on dodge and thing like that.

Having played a Confusion build I know exactly how you survive the builds.. If you watch my latest video, I survive an 11 Stack Confusion put on my by Engineer by not attacking, I then proceed to kill him with a 3 Stack Confusion… cause he was swapping kits (thus using a skill)

Anet feel the haste growing over confusion… It needs to be nerf. Period.

Immolator.5640:

What I don’t understand is how people can think this is completely fine?

Lets see – it proccs when you dodge, it proccs when you attack, it proccs when you heal it proccs when you change attunement it proccs when you do pretty much anything. Sitting still and doing nothing is a completely stupid and illogical solution when you’re in the midst of combat and fighting for your life, you can not sit still and do nothing for 10 seconds. I fight many 1vs3 or 1vs5 fights, if one of them is a confusion Mesmer/engineer I have by default lost that fight, by the same token if 2+ are backstab bursts thieves then I’ve probably lost the fight, but that’s acceptable because no one can win against 2 or more thieves unless they’re really bad, pretty much because they’re impossible to finish, shadow refuge from both of them makes it even more so.

Confusion needs changing.

All conditions do damages when you dodge, when you attack and when you heal, and even if you don’t do anything at all.

As mentioned in your post, you fight a lot of 1v3 1v5 fights. And you expect to win? If you were winning then your profession is the one that should be nerf’d.

1. if confusion is OP in 1v1 fights… why the heck do you do 1v1 fights in WvW? WvW is a place where you (should) work together as a team

2. I think (need official confirmation though) that the condition removal works same as it worked in GW1, the condition most on the right will get removed first (thus the one that was applied last time)

p.s. if you get confusion after you used your remove all conditions skill, maybe you should time it better

For the most part I think people will agree that traited dodges and changing attunements/kits should be changed and wouldn’t affect much. It’s the outcries to the nerf to damage that people are disagreeing with.

@Crass I could kind of see that and I wouldn’t see an issue with a change like that for smaller fights but in big fights against organized guilds condition removal is pretty plentiful. But here is my only thing we don’t have to many other conditions besides confusion. Staff 1 does a random condition which usually has like a 1sec duration then the other two that cause it conditions are chaos storm and chaos armor. Armor is really hard to avoid since a good mesmer can get like 30secs of it but chaos storm most just run out.

@Endemonadia the glamors your referring to are heavily traited to get confusion so they are giving up a lot of traits to get that set up. I already went over that just glamor confusions alone aren’t going to do a lot of damage unless your smashing your face on the keyboard. If a large grou kitten uccessfully stacking high stacks of confusion with glamors they probably have mesmers coordinating together to keep it rolling. Which at that point that takes some skill to time placements and movement across people to keep the stacks going. I mean if you are pointing out the skill about this how about zergs that run a rotation of necros with plague to keep blinds, weakness, and poison a whole zerg. Mind you I have no problem with either of these they are tactics learn and adapt or die imo.
In case you missed my previous comments on glamors Ill put it here again

Glamors can cause a max of 6 confusion (provided you don’t run back into them) with using all 3 slots, but frankly imo that is dumb because then you have no stun breaks except phase retreat. So with 2 you are looking at 4 stacks from them. For arguments sake ill use the 6 stack, which with my condition damage would be about 1900 damage. The way confusion falls off is a timer for each stack so based of glamors that is sets of (1,2)(3,4)(5,6) based on reaction time and from experience after the last glamor there is about a half a second before the 6 stack drops to 4. Also a lot of organized groups ask for atleast one mesmer with veil and one with portal so then two mesmers only have 1 place-able glamor for offense. Which some keep the null field for defense to wipe conditions off their allies like confusion and such so those with feedback and null field only have one for offense

RevengeSeeker.7208:

For the most part I think people will agree that traited dodges and changing attunements/kits should be changed and wouldn’t affect much. It’s the outcries to the nerf to damage that people are disagreeing with.

@Crass I could kind of see that and I wouldn’t see an issue with a change like that for smaller fights but in big fights against organized guilds condition removal is pretty plentiful. But here is my only thing we don’t have to many other conditions besides confusion. Staff 1 does a random condition which usually has like a 1sec duration then the other two that cause it conditions are chaos storm and chaos armor. Armor is really hard to avoid since a good mesmer can get like 30secs of it but chaos storm most just run out.

@Endemonadia the glamors your referring to are heavily traited to get confusion so they are giving up a lot of traits to get that set up. I already went over that just glamor confusions alone aren’t going to do a lot of damage unless your smashing your face on the keyboard. If a large grou kitten uccessfully stacking high stacks of confusion with glamors they probably have mesmers coordinating together to keep it rolling. Which at that point that takes some skill to time placements and movement across people to keep the stacks going. I mean if you are pointing out the skill about this how about zergs that run a rotation of necros with plague to keep blinds, weakness, and poison a whole zerg. Mind you I have no problem with either of these they are tactics learn and adapt or die imo.
In case you missed my previous comments on glamors Ill put it here again

Glamors can cause a max of 6 confusion (provided you don’t run back into them) with using all 3 slots, but frankly imo that is dumb because then you have no stun breaks except phase retreat. So with 2 you are looking at 4 stacks from them. For arguments sake ill use the 6 stack, which with my condition damage would be about 1900 damage. The way confusion falls off is a timer for each stack so based of glamors that is sets of (1,2)(3,4)(5,6) based on reaction time and from experience after the last glamor there is about a half a second before the 6 stack drops to 4. Also a lot of organized groups ask for atleast one mesmer with veil and one with portal so then two mesmers only have 1 place-able glamor for offense. Which some keep the null field for defense to wipe conditions off their allies like confusion and such so those with feedback and null field only have one for offense

It’s not a glamour build, shatter mesmers can get up to 15 stacks of confusion, regularly on avg 12. Plus shattered clones give a random condition. And they do this multiple times in a fight, it’s not a big burst and that’s it, mesmers can do it alot, ive played one.

Also if people say “thats just 1v1, omg wvw isnt 1v1!” that argument makes 0 sense. If you want to see just how OP classes can be in wvw, go do some small fights and 1v1 where you can really notice things. Sittin in a zerg you dont realize just how skewed certain things are in WvW. Whats dumb is that Anet has not kept SPvP and WvW similair in stats and balance…. why? no clue

Dev said:

“We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.?

I can just feel that the nerf is coming

Confusion punishes lazy and unaware players. I usually don’t use that phrase, but it’s a l2p thing. It’s that easy. Die from confusion: well deserved.

The more I think about it though, if they nerf confusion, I’m actually fine with that – because then there’s finally absolutely no reason to invest anything in condition damage/duration any more for me. Power all the way, just like ANet wants it to be. Then I also don’t have to transmute my legendary and I’m totally fine in PvE too, which currently is quite painful.

Sifu.6527:

Dev said:

“We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.?

I can just feel that the nerf is coming

wvw and Pve seperate would be the best thing ever. while theyre at it, why dont they revert ascended gear stats down to exotic when entering WvW… like it always should have been

Iruwen.3164:

Confusion punishes lazy and unaware players. I usually don’t use that phrase, but it’s a l2p thing. It’s that easy. Die from confusion: well deserved.

The more I think about it though, if they nerf confusion, I’m actually fine with that – because then there’s finally absolutely no reason to invest anything in condition damage/duration any more for me. Power all the way, just like ANet wants it to be. Then I also don’t have to transmute my legendary and I’m totally fine in PvE too, which currently is quite painful.

No, it isnt just a l2 kitten ue . I have duelled more then 100 times confusion speecs (mainly mesmers, but also engineers and hunters) in the last 3-4 weeks. I dont like to call for a nerf about a certain class or speec and instead try to find a counter or to get better. But it didn’t help.I played a mesmer to Level 80 and practiced a lot with him to find out the weakness of confusion.. I asked other mesmers. I still have no chance in wvsw against this confusion speecs, while ist difficult in tpvp but at least possible to beat them.(thanks to the 50% dmg reduction) That leads me to the conclusion that the damage of confusion along with other things (like confusion procc on traited avoid or attunement change) is op. Please tell me a counter to confusion to Change my opinion. (and dont say doing nothing or using condition removal, because that isnt enough to beat a confusion mesmer)

Learn what applies confusion, counter it and time your attacks. Confusing Images for example can easily be identified and avoided. Disable auto attack and consume a Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

I’ve been playing my confusion/glamour mesmer for the last week or so, and I have been enjoying wrecking people with it.

I hopped on my engi today, and on a whim, I respecced to my flamethrower build. In a favorable turn of events, I ended up in a 1v1 against someone running nearly the exact same build I run on my mesmer. The fight lasted about 15 seconds before they were dead, and I had more than 6 stacks of confusion on me once, and 9 stacks the second time, but I ate the confusion damage to use my condition clears, and nothing else.

When you play a build, and watch what people do right against you, and what they do wrong, if you learn from it, you’ll figure out how to fight it. There were a few people that I struggled against on my mesmer, so put all of their tactics together against this mesmer (while I don’t know our relative skill levels) and I demolished them. Maybe they were much worse than me, I have no idea, but they saw me coming and had full health when the fight started. The difference between this fight and others that I’ve been in, is I knew exactly what was coming regardless of the which build the mesmer was in. I hate fighting against mesmers – it’s the reason I made one, and this was one of the first ones where I went into the fight with no question about when to use what skills.

The confusion mechanism is okay, but confusion does way too much damage in World vs World. Getting over 3000 damage from just activating a skill, attacking, changing an attunement, stowing a kit, dodging is ridiculous. Mesmers are the most powerful when it comes to confusion + conditions builds. They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from range. In a big fight this doesn’t even require any skill.

I would say confusion is 3-4 times more powerful in WvWvW compared to pvp: first of all confusion does double damage. WvWvW allows better (ascended) and more varied gear, plus the use of consumables (e.g. 50% condition duration). In a big zerg fight the confusion often ends up being covered by so many conditions that removing it is difficult.

Tone down the confusion damage to the same level it is in pvp. And it will be fine

A note to some of the comments in this thread: conditions are not weak. The damage is already actually a bit too good if you use the right build, runes and consumables and condition damage ignores armor. The only problem is the limit of max 25 bleed stacks and one condition removal removing all 25 stacks. Thus almost nobody runs bleed builds in pvp. Maybe to redesign so that one condition removal removes max 15 stacks of one condition? And increase the bleed stack limit to 50, to make bleed builds more viable.

It looks as if we are confused on this topic

I find it humorous that many of the posters in this thread defending confusion arenthe first to create threads about nerfing other classes.

Anet needs to neuter confusion and the mesmer class…end of story.

@ Victory:

You would have done better reading the rest of Scryars text with the same interest like u did with his signature.

I`ve got to fully support Scryar on his opinion. First, the guy knows what he`s talking about, second, I made similar experiences. After mass duelling confusion builds (mainly mesmers) in wvw and tpvp, I feel I have a fair chance in tpvp by playing smart. But duelling really skilled confusion hybrid mesmers in wvw is a huge pain.
The timing window to engage properly without eating too much damage is extremely small as confusion is reapplied very quickly and will punish every minor overextension heavily. You will have to engage, as such built mesmers are playing very passively.

While 1vs1 should of course not be the only balance indicator, it gives a good hint at how timing windows and dmg output work. In case of confusion it scales absurdely well the more players participate in the battle, so its not only superstrong at 1vs1.

Best Regards

PinCushion.7390:

Swamurabi.7890:

As a Necro I have to laugh at this thread. Most Conditionmancers soon find that there’s so much condition removal in WvW that they switch to a different build. Now that Epidemic has been LoS nerfed, there’s even less Conditionmancers out there.

Of course there are. They switched to confusion mesmers and HGH engineers.

/em looks at his necro he rolled at release, then the mesmer that was leveled to 80 and geared out during March….

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

Khenzy.9348:

To me, this only shows how absurd confusion damage is in WvW.

To me, this only shows that confusion engis may need some balancing when it comes to confusion uptime. If confusion damage would simply be reduced to PvP levels, it wouldn’t be a viable option compared to a power shatter build, except for glamour AE for lazy loot tagging. If anything, it has to be buffed in PvE.

CrassBippy.4619:

Condition removal skills actually remove the most recent condition applied to you. It’s a pretty decent system because it allows for a highly skilled opponent to “cover” his most important conditions with weaker ones, while still allowing the other player to know which of his conditions will be removed. For example, any large stack of bleeding will almost always be removed first because it is constantly being refreshed; it is almost always the most recent one applied. Something like a long poison can be hard to get rid of.

It’s also a good system because it usually prevents a condition removal skill being wasted on a condition that was about to expire naturally, since there was probably something else applied more recently.

This was good to know. I couldn’t find any info on how condition removal mechanics was done and hadn’t really been able to find something that dropped a zergs worth of conditions on me and still let me see what is being removed when I used my shouts. Wiki wasn’t a help for me either but my searchfoo isn’t very good.

I still have no problems with confusion. You do something then you will kill yourself. Simple enough. Can be cleansed. Now if I want to get rid of it, I can do something to refresh it and I’ll be able to use a shout on it.

Just my thoughts:

Small damage nerf should be fine. I’m not talking about 50% here (lolwut?), more like 10-15%. I really hope that anet sticks to their “small changes” philosophy. Have you ever played a confusion Mesmer in PvP? It’s a worthless build. The main problem is that confusion is the only reliable condition for Mesmers, cause all the other conditions are random. You simply can’t stack 15+ bleeds as other classes if you want to. Nerfing confusion (or reverting it to its original state) would kill all condition Mesmers (yay for build variety). As others have already said, you have to trait heavily to get confusion right (duration, proc on shatter etc.).

Yes, it can hit pretty hard, there’s no way denying that. But at the same time, a confusion/condition Mesmer doesn’t really have any other major source of damage. Winds of Change has a 2/3 chance to get a useful condition on a slowly moving projectile. Illusionary duelist can stack up to 8 bleedings if traited and if you’re lucky (it’s also pretty easy to dodge) – if you’re using pistol offhand. Besides that, I think it’s funny that some people come up with “it’s an unskilled condition”. Tell my, how are any of the other conditions “skilled”? They do damage over time, and the target can’t just neglect all damage by simply doing nothing.

I have to agree that confusion shouldn’t proc on dodge skills. This is a valid argument and I have to agree. Thank god that there are people here who don’t just QQ about anything.

I would love to see confusion like this in PvP. Shatter/Phantasm all the time is boring.
LETS GO MANTRA

I agree with Wamgor.9347 so much. I fought an upscaled thief last night who died after a single hit from my scepter beam, she shredded her self to death in a few seconds. Literally moments later I fought a lvl 80 thief who played the d/d stealth class well and he was very hard to hit with any of my attacks, let alone stack confusion on and every time I got a good hit on him he just stealthed away.

There is another thread complaining retaliation is OP another saying stealth ruins the game another saying ele’s are to OP and i’m sure the list goes on. Why not get Anet to nerf the whole game so nobody ever dies, would you be happy then?

I beg Anet not to listen to this confusion / mesmer witch hunt. Most of these posts are factually inaccurate and propagated by people who haven’t played a confusion spec . I’ve run OP classes in MMOs before. Mesmer / Confusion is in no way OP. As a warlock in WOW we had a truly OP ability called seed of corruption which would do massive damage if a target tried to remove our conditions. I WISH we had that ability here, but we don’t. A simple condition removal gets rid of our confusion. Boom, it’s gone. Everything we traited for, gone. Plus, and I reiterate, confusion really doesn’t do good damage. Burning is a much more powerful condition. People who get hurt by confusion are getting hurt for 3 reasons: 1.They refuse to carry any condition removal skills or runes or sigils. 2. They don’t look at their condition bar and continue to mindlessly spam attacks. 3. They don’t pay attention to AOE placed around them and stand in the AOE. All of these counters to confusion are EASILY accomplished with even the slightest thought and application. Having a class that forces a mindless Zerg to think a bit and play smart is a brilliant move on Anet’s part. As for myself, when I get hit with confusion it gives me zero worry. I drop Null Field on myself and I’m fine. Or I just wait it out and back off. Easy.

Entropy.4732:

I beg Anet not to listen to this confusion / mesmer witch hunt. Most of these posts are factually inaccurate and propagated by people who haven’t played a confusion spec . I’ve run OP classes in MMOs before. Mesmer / Confusion is in no way OP. As a warlock in WOW we had a truly OP ability called seed of corruption which would do massive damage if a target tried to remove our conditions. I WISH we had that ability here, but we don’t. A simple condition removal gets rid of our confusion. Boom, it’s gone. Everything we traited for, gone. Plus, and I reiterate, confusion really doesn’t do good damage. Burning is a much more powerful condition. People who get hurt by confusion are getting hurt for 3 reasons: 1.They refuse to carry any condition removal skills or runes or sigils. 2. They don’t look at their condition bar and continue to mindlessly spam attacks. 3. They don’t pay attention to AOE placed around them and stand in the AOE. All of these counters to confusion are EASILY accomplished with even the slightest thought and application. Having a class that forces a mindless Zerg to think a bit and play smart is a brilliant move on Anet’s part. As for myself, when I get hit with confusion it gives me zero worry. I drop Null Field on myself and I’m fine. Or I just wait it out and back off. Easy.

I love how people who run confusion builds instantly cry that very one is a noob hen stating opinions/facts. sorry bud but I Pvp alot, understand all the mechanics and I can still realize certain parts of my class that might be toned down in the future, I don’t cry if they might nerf my class. It’s not a l2 kitten ue, and the people who use the class are the people in this thread not giving ideas/feedback. I’ve played a Mesmer alot too so I understand its mechanics.

Also no, cond removal NEVER reliably removes confusion. Only a remove all, so that’s false to act like people casually remove it with ease

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

CrassBippy.4619:

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

so pro cause he doesnt need to tell u …
/no

I guess u can with traits, shatter, and illusions like:

blinding befuddlement
dazzling glamours
master of misdirection
illusionary retribution
confusing enchantments
debilitating disippation
confusing images
temporal curtain to pull into or out from glamour aoe
chaos armor
rare veggie pizza (+40% condition duration)
superior rune of the mad king x2 +10% condition duration
superior rune of lysa x2 +10% condition duration
major rune of mad or lysa +7% condition damage
phantasmal mage

and thats all i can think about it ><
the more condition duration the more the chance u can stack more confusion

Guys, if you have 12+ stack of confusion on you, you got hit full in the face by two shatters.

If that had been a power mesmer you have been hit for 15k+ damage up front.

Complaining about confusion damage at 12+ stacks is just as bad as calling 100 Blades OP. L2Dodge

ErlendR.6107:

CrassBippy.4619:

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

so pro cause he doesnt need to tell u …
/no

I guess u can with traits, shatter, and illusions like:

blinding befuddlement
dazzling glamours
master of misdirection
illusionary retribution
confusing enchantments
debilitating disippation
confusing images
temporal curtain to pull into or out from glamour aoe
chaos armor
rare veggie pizza (+40% condition duration)
superior rune of the mad king x2 +10% condition duration
superior rune of lysa x2 +10% condition duration
major rune of mad or lysa +7% condition damage
phantasmal mage

and thats all i can think about it ><
the more condition duration the more the chance u can stack more confusion

No, it’s obvious. It’s pretty simple, clone utilities, staff, dodge makes a clone. Why would I need to describe how to do it to Someone who apparently has 100 hours in that class? He discredits others just cause he can’t figure it out for himself

Eliyahu.1467:

Complaining about confusion damage at 12+ stacks is just as bad as calling 100 Blades OP. L2Dodge

One of the biggest issues people keep bringing up is dodging with confusion can do a significant amount of damage, if you have an on dodge trait. This prevents you from avoiding even more confusion.

purpleskies.3274:

Eliyahu.1467:

Complaining about confusion damage at 12+ stacks is just as bad as calling 100 Blades OP. L2Dodge

One of the biggest issues people keep bringing up is dodging with confusion can do a significant amount of damage, if you have an on dodge trait. This prevents you from avoiding even more confusion.

It’s ok, they use confusion, it doesn’t need nerfing obviously. I use retaliation and I know that needs a little rework too, but were all noobs

Everyone is crying nerf, from portal limit to might shatter to stealth and timewarp, now confusion. Next thing is mesmer should only be able to shatter 2 illusions every 60secs.People say 15 stacks of confusion can be stacked at one go, the stacks last for how long? 2secs? Run away for a few secs and come back and your stacks are gone. I do not want to go into the aspect of learn to play because people might see it the wrong way. Rangers and necros can stack 15 stacks of bleed in 5 secs, why no one say anything about it? Stop calling nerf when you just need to slot condition removal or manuvere away.

Ps: bear in mind confusion trigger ONLY if you attack. Your choice is to spam skill, then you chose to be punished. No need to qq.

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

I beg Anet not to listen to this confusion / mesmer witch hunt. Most of these posts are factually inaccurate and propagated by people who haven’t played a confusion spec . I’ve run OP classes in MMOs before. Mesmer / Confusion is in no way OP. As a warlock in WOW we had a truly OP ability called seed of corruption which would do massive damage if a target tried to remove our conditions. I WISH we had that ability here, but we don’t. A simple condition removal gets rid of our confusion. Boom, it’s gone. Everything we traited for, gone. Plus, and I reiterate, confusion really doesn’t do good damage. Burning is a much more powerful condition. People who get hurt by confusion are getting hurt for 3 reasons: 1.They refuse to carry any condition removal skills or runes or sigils. 2. They don’t look at their condition bar and continue to mindlessly spam attacks. 3. They don’t pay attention to AOE placed around them and stand in the AOE. All of these counters to confusion are EASILY accomplished with even the slightest thought and application. Having a class that forces a mindless Zerg to think a bit and play smart is a brilliant move on Anet’s part. As for myself, when I get hit with confusion it gives me zero worry. I drop Null Field on myself and I’m fine. Or I just wait it out and back off. Easy.

I love how people who run confusion builds instantly cry that very one is a noob hen stating opinions/facts. sorry bud but I Pvp alot, understand all the mechanics and I can still realize certain parts of my class that might be toned down in the future, I don’t cry if they might nerf my class. It’s not a l2 kitten ue, and the people who use the class are the people in this thread not giving ideas/feedback. I’ve played a Mesmer alot too so I understand its mechanics.

Also no, cond removal NEVER reliably removes confusion. Only a remove all, so that’s false to act like people casually remove it with ease

Firstly, what I pride myself on never doing is posting that other classes need to be nerfed. I tend to accept the game as is. I never post about how this class or the other is in need of the developers stepping in and weakening it’s core mechanic. To me that seems like true “crying”. As opposed to defending a class you love. That’s loyalty. Second, no one ever said skills that remove a single condition should be able to solve all your problems. Naturally a full condition remove is in order. And most classes have a full remove. Or you could always NOT ATTACK. Lastly, keep in mind that this is a DOT. Why is it that when an ele does 25K direct damage in 2 seconds that’s not considered O.P. But when I, as a condition mesmer, manage to do a measly 2K over 3 minutes we deserve a nerf? I accept that elementalists excel at direct damage. I don’t want a nerf to elementalists or any other class. If confusion is so OP, why is it that I never die of it ever when anyone tosses it on me?

Just want to clarify a couple things:

1. Condition removals always remove the most recently applied condition.
2. Power/precision/critical damage specs are much weaker in PvP than in WvW.

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

I beg Anet not to listen to this confusion / mesmer witch hunt. Most of these posts are factually inaccurate and propagated by people who haven’t played a confusion spec . I’ve run OP classes in MMOs before. Mesmer / Confusion is in no way OP. As a warlock in WOW we had a truly OP ability called seed of corruption which would do massive damage if a target tried to remove our conditions. I WISH we had that ability here, but we don’t. A simple condition removal gets rid of our confusion. Boom, it’s gone. Everything we traited for, gone. Plus, and I reiterate, confusion really doesn’t do good damage. Burning is a much more powerful condition. People who get hurt by confusion are getting hurt for 3 reasons: 1.They refuse to carry any condition removal skills or runes or sigils. 2. They don’t look at their condition bar and continue to mindlessly spam attacks. 3. They don’t pay attention to AOE placed around them and stand in the AOE. All of these counters to confusion are EASILY accomplished with even the slightest thought and application. Having a class that forces a mindless Zerg to think a bit and play smart is a brilliant move on Anet’s part. As for myself, when I get hit with confusion it gives me zero worry. I drop Null Field on myself and I’m fine. Or I just wait it out and back off. Easy.

I love how people who run confusion builds instantly cry that very one is a noob hen stating opinions/facts. sorry bud but I Pvp alot, understand all the mechanics and I can still realize certain parts of my class that might be toned down in the future, I don’t cry if they might nerf my class. It’s not a l2 kitten ue, and the people who use the class are the people in this thread not giving ideas/feedback. I’ve played a Mesmer alot too so I understand its mechanics.

Also no, cond removal NEVER reliably removes confusion. Only a remove all, so that’s false to act like people casually remove it with ease

Firstly, what I pride myself on never doing is posting that other classes need to be nerfed. I tend to accept the game as is. I never post about how this class or the other is in need of the developers stepping in and weakening it’s core mechanic. To me that seems like true “crying”. As opposed to defending a class you love. That’s loyalty. Second, no one ever said skills that remove a single condition should be able to solve all your problems. Naturally a full condition remove is in order. And most classes have a full remove. Or you could always NOT ATTACK. Lastly, keep in mind that this is a DOT. Why is it that when an ele does 25K direct damage in 2 seconds that’s not considered O.P. But when I, as a condition mesmer, manage to do a measly 2K over 3 minutes we deserve a nerf? I accept that elementalists excel at direct damage. I don’t want a nerf to elementalists or any other class. If confusion is so OP, why is it that I never die of it ever when anyone tosses it on me?

measly 2k? So then tell me this, why is confusion much weaker in Spvp? where the game is balanced around… and yes you can not attack….for 10 seconds. great idea. this sounds like a great counter.

this discussion is for people who are in a higher level of PvP, not just someone who uses confusion every 45 seconds and thinks neato! im doin dmg. This is for the people who know the class inside and out, and can consistenly put 10 stacks of confusion, you remove all, then put another 8 on you seconds later. so then what? not attack? by then their cooldowns will be back up and its the same thing all over again.

WvW and consumables makes Confusion into too much of a deal breaker for fighting them. WvW needs to have seperate balance then PvE, why it doesnt use same balancing as Spvp ill never know

Nerf confusion please anet.

Make it the same as sPvP since its obviously an unbalanced condition.

If the counter to something is just to not attack (or even dodge or heal) then it’s not a fun mechanic for anyone in the long run. Eventually WvW will be MvM with armies of mesmers having staring contests while waiting for each other to commit suicide.

Ok, that’s a slight exaggeration. Reality though, is that confusion is a bit too powerful in large group PvP (WvW that is).

This isn’t specifically about mesmers, or about how much confusion can a confusion-chuck stack if a confusion-chuck could stack confusion. WvW isn’t about 1v1s or class v. class, in big fights you simply can’t always wait it out or cleanse all conditions. In big zerg fights I see more and more often that the side with the most mesmers and necros wins, perma-blind/weak and perma confusion spam and they don’t even need to leave their death-blobs, get close and die if you dare.

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

I beg Anet not to listen to this confusion / mesmer witch hunt. Most of these posts are factually inaccurate and propagated by people who haven’t played a confusion spec . I’ve run OP classes in MMOs before. Mesmer / Confusion is in no way OP. As a warlock in WOW we had a truly OP ability called seed of corruption which would do massive damage if a target tried to remove our conditions. I WISH we had that ability here, but we don’t. A simple condition removal gets rid of our confusion. Boom, it’s gone. Everything we traited for, gone. Plus, and I reiterate, confusion really doesn’t do good damage. Burning is a much more powerful condition. People who get hurt by confusion are getting hurt for 3 reasons: 1.They refuse to carry any condition removal skills or runes or sigils. 2. They don’t look at their condition bar and continue to mindlessly spam attacks. 3. They don’t pay attention to AOE placed around them and stand in the AOE. All of these counters to confusion are EASILY accomplished with even the slightest thought and application. Having a class that forces a mindless Zerg to think a bit and play smart is a brilliant move on Anet’s part. As for myself, when I get hit with confusion it gives me zero worry. I drop Null Field on myself and I’m fine. Or I just wait it out and back off. Easy.

I love how people who run confusion builds instantly cry that very one is a noob hen stating opinions/facts. sorry bud but I Pvp alot, understand all the mechanics and I can still realize certain parts of my class that might be toned down in the future, I don’t cry if they might nerf my class. It’s not a l2 kitten ue, and the people who use the class are the people in this thread not giving ideas/feedback. I’ve played a Mesmer alot too so I understand its mechanics.

Also no, cond removal NEVER reliably removes confusion. Only a remove all, so that’s false to act like people casually remove it with ease

Firstly, what I pride myself on never doing is posting that other classes need to be nerfed. I tend to accept the game as is. I never post about how this class or the other is in need of the developers stepping in and weakening it’s core mechanic. To me that seems like true “crying”. As opposed to defending a class you love. That’s loyalty. Second, no one ever said skills that remove a single condition should be able to solve all your problems. Naturally a full condition remove is in order. And most classes have a full remove. Or you could always NOT ATTACK. Lastly, keep in mind that this is a DOT. Why is it that when an ele does 25K direct damage in 2 seconds that’s not considered O.P. But when I, as a condition mesmer, manage to do a measly 2K over 3 minutes we deserve a nerf? I accept that elementalists excel at direct damage. I don’t want a nerf to elementalists or any other class. If confusion is so OP, why is it that I never die of it ever when anyone tosses it on me?

measly 2k? So then tell me this, why is confusion much weaker in Spvp? where the game is balanced around… and yes you can not attack….for 10 seconds. great idea. this sounds like a great counter.

this discussion is for people who are in a higher level of PvP, not just someone who uses confusion every 45 seconds and thinks neato! im doin dmg. This is for the people who know the class inside and out, and can consistenly put 10 stacks of confusion, you remove all, then put another 8 on you seconds later. so then what? not attack? by then their cooldowns will be back up and its the same thing all over again.

WvW and consumables makes Confusion into too much of a deal breaker for fighting them. WvW needs to have seperate balance then PvE, why it doesnt use same balancing as Spvp ill never know

You said you do high lvl of pvp and confusion is much weaker. Does it occur to you that people dodge much more in spvp as compared to wvw where there are bigger spaces to run and operate. You made it sound easy, how about you make a video to show how a mesmer can apply 10 stacks and 8 stacks seconds later. I would like to know how as well. It might work if you are attacking a dummy which doesn’t move. I think alot of people in the mesmer community would like to know. Talk is easy in this sense.

As the above poster stated: Power/precision/critical damage specs are much weaker in PvP than in WvW. So why act like it’s ONLY confusion that’s weaker in sPVP? Everything is weaker in sPvP probably in order to make fights last longer in tight, confined spaces. So unless all power/precision/crit dam is going to be reduced in WvW too, I don’t think it’s fair to single out confusion. Second, to your point that it should be nerfed because some players can stack 10 then 8 stacks of confusion. Who are these epic mesmers you speak of? Can any mesmer honestly say it’s doable to instantly stack 18 confusion? Even if I time everything in my arsenal perfectly right and unload every skill I’ve got I can only get up to 6 before I have to wait for a major cool down. And that’s only on a single target. Mostly I hover around 2-3 stacks. And yes, I do know a lot of the mechanics of the class. I’m not the most knowledgable mesmer in the world, but I know a great deal. I think much of the “confusion” about confusion comes from rumors and misinterpretation of what actually killed you. If you’re facing a group of 5 mesmers all tagging you with confusion, yes, yer in trouble. But five elementalists or five warriors and yer in trouble too. And some folks just glance at their condition bar, see 15 stacks and think, how could that one mesmer hit me so hard? There’s a ton of posts on this thread about mesmers able to apply 15 stacks at will on the first hit. I really want to know if this is possible. Hell, I’d like to learn! But all the mesmers I know can’t do this.