Guild Wars 2

I know a while back there was a thread regarding this subject, but I don’t recall if we ever got an official response from ANet on it. It’s very unrealistic, and while every server benefits from it, it’s something that should be eliminated from the game. Dead players should be forced to look at the WvW map and decide where to respawn, nothing else.

It’s a bit silly to wipe out a force, only to have some dead guy watching your every move and report it back to his team.

Yea I agree completely, it’s one thing to have a spy you can do something about, its another to have a corpse scouter who is obviously just sitting there to tell their team when the defenders needed to go help elsewhere when there is nothing that can be done about it except keep a large force there for 10 minutes.

Some people claim that it’s a legitimate tactic because everyone can do it and to QQ more. I say it’s immersion breaking foul play along the lines of catapults behind gates to make oil pots redundant, and flame rams not worth buying.

Just because everyone can do it doesn’t mean they should.

I think you should be allowed to do this, though you should also be required to make ghost noises while you’re doing it.

Well, ignoring the fact that everyone can do it the afk timer will kick anyone who is a corpse for too long. If they are in a tower or keep you own all you have to do is wait for the timer to either force them to respawn or kick them before doing secret stuff inside.

The afk timer is 10 minutes though. Should one person be capable of delaying an entire server’s plans by 10 minutes?

If I manage to catch a party of 3 on their way to reinforce a fight and manage to delay them for a minute I call that a hard fought victory. Should one person who is hardly doing anything be able to delay an entire servers plans for 10 minutes?

Even if nothing is planned to happen there that’s 10 minutes that you need to keep 2 or 3 extra defenders there because of the kitten scout you can’t do anything about except tea bag.

Dead man don’t tell tales… So it’s unrealistic and unfair… Just auto-open their map and we’ll be good… They can see if they have allies nearby to ress him through the map.

Ashlov.3819:

I know a while back there was a thread regarding this subject, but I don’t recall if we ever got an official response from ANet on it. It’s very unrealistic, and while every server benefits from it, it’s something that should be eliminated from the game. Dead players should be forced to look at the WvW map and decide where to respawn, nothing else.

It’s a bit silly to wipe out a force, only to have some dead guy watching your every move and report it back to his team.

I fully agree. When you die, the map automatically should open after some brief period … say five seconds. At the very least, the other team should have the ability to force you back to the map … such as by jumping on your corpse.

I’m not sure I’ve seen an official ANet response on more than 1% of the legitimate game issues that surface here in these forums, though, so I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for one.

You should be able to walk up to them and channel a corpse burning/burying, forcing them to only have a map view to respawn.

1.) Eliminates no-effort spying that is 10x more effective in most cases.

2.) Allows smaller more coordinated and more skillful groups to fight larger groups.

If I have a team of 30 and we bait/bleed and strafing run through a group of 80, it’s still very difficult to win. Not because they’re countering us on the field or using superior tactics, but because the second we run through and kill a chunk of them, we’re at low health and need to regroup but they can just rez everyone up. Nothing like killing a group of 80 players 3x over and still losing.

I’m more concerned with people sitting around waiting for a rez in heated combat situations. The timer should be 2 mins max.

In a game where dead allies can be resurrected and heros can return from the mists, is it really a far cry for the dead to watch you when you move…. to watch your every action?

We know what you did last wintersday.

Just dance on them, or sit and emote. Works every time. In case of dead mesmer, look for a thief, then commence dancing on them both once the thief is dead.

Seriously, though, you should get auto rezzed at your spawn after being completely dead.

If you notice, the “corpses” have their eyes open….. I think this means corpse spying is intentional….. Also the use of the term “defeated” instead of “dead”…..

Anyway, yeah, have the map open on defeat, problem solved. Till that happens, do your ultra sneaky ninja activities out of sight of spies, it’s possible, corpses can’t follow you around you know…..

I agree that something has to be done.
If you, for example, move a small team with a few golems to quickly and stealthily take an objective and you meet a player who you manage to take down before he spots the golems or your small force, you’d have to make a wide path around him to avoid him giving information to his team. This is all costing you time and is sometimes not even possible.
I’m not sure about the forcing them to look at the map though. It would be fine if they could still have a chat panel in the map. The worst thing in an MMO is to be unable to talk with other people, as this is one of the base functions of the game.

I’m comfortable with it, just not for extended periods of time. If some guy dies in a tower and is still there 30 minutes later then there’s a problem.

Just make it so that every 5 minutes another piece of armor takes damage/breaks.

Edit:
Or do it World of Warcraft style, where instead of being defeated you die, but still need to be stomped to get sent back to spawn. Same basic mechanic as currently exists (people can still be revived during battles), but without all of the corpse spying.

I think most of the time, at least for me, if I’m wiped I take the opportunity to go for a bathroom break or get something to drink. Nothing nefarious, just taking an afk.

zhonnika.1784:

Just dance on them, or sit and emote. Works every time. In case of dead mesmer, look for a thief, then commence dancing on them both once the thief is dead.

Seriously, though, you should get auto rezzed at your spawn after being completely dead.

Or the whole. Zerg lies down next to the dead player? TC would do something like this! I’ll suggest it next time I’m playing. Think it would prove quite amusing

I usually just stand on them. If they want to stare at my furry kitten more power to them.

The solution for this is easy;

Just respawn the dead player to the most far spawn point automatically after a particular time.

Avalon.4809:

The solution for this is easy;

Just respawn the dead player to the most far spawn point automatically after a particular time.

I was going to suggest the same thing. Give them 1 minute then auto respawn!

I laughed out loud when reading some of this. It is unrealistic that people can spy when they are dead? But on the same turn its realistic that a dead person can res? Please…..lol…..

This game is not based on any type of realism what so ever. Put simply, corpse spying is a valid tactic, and if you have a problem with it, move a couple of screens away from the dead person if possible? There is not much a dead body can tell you that a mobile thief or mesmer cant tell you in better depth and analysis.

Baron.8571:

I laughed out loud when reading some of this. It is unrealistic that people can spy when they are dead? But on the same turn its realistic that a dead person can res? Please…..lol…..

This game is not based on any type of realism what so ever. Put simply, corpse spying is a valid tactic, and if you have a problem with it, move a couple of screens away from the dead person if possible? There is not much a dead body can tell you that a mobile thief or mesmer cant tell you in better depth and analysis.

Except that resurrection is explained and covered in detail in the game’s lore. Corpses being able to share information isn’t. It’d be different if you became a spirit when you died, but you don’t.

sv_fadetoblack 1 (Am I doing this right?)

zhonnika.1784:

Just dance on them, or sit and emote. Works every time. In case of dead mesmer, look for a thief, then commence dancing on them both once the thief is dead.

Seriously, though, you should get auto rezzed at your spawn after being completely dead.

This is exactly why I do what I do with the jumping/taunting after they are dead. There are a few very persistent people that still won’t res though : / It’s fine if they are allowed to stay for a res… but 10 mins is excessive… and there should be a way for the other team to burn the corpses to force a res.

They could just add a spawn timer to your death, like if you dont do anything in the next 10-20 seconds you automatically spawn at home base.

Any remove corpse function would need a fairly lengthy timer. Let’s say you push into an enemy keep, and a small group comes up behind you and repairs the gate/wall and kills the people inside. Right now you can take the gate/wall down again and res those people who died inside, instead of needing them to run all the way back. And what about defenders? This would make defending harder, especially when the enemy force is part way in whatever objective they are taking. Should people really have to run back to a keep to help defend if they died while pushing the enemy out of said keep? If someone wants to sit where they died for ten or so minutes and report what they see… I have no problem with that. It’s like having a character built for escaping fights scouting out what’s happening behind your lines, except they can’t follow you.

why not just up culling to 100% for dead people so when you die you cant see anyone around you at all.

I vote map fullscreen. That way you can judge if there’s anyone around that might come and res you…or not. There’s no need for quick auto-respawn for people that die somewhere random so it shouldn’t exist anywhere else.

When I die I want to look around for a little bit to see how my team is doing. I say let the corpse be able to see normally for 20-30 seconds and then force the map.

And make the “a noble soul is healing you” a bit more obvious, because a lot of players still waypoint out when others are ressing them…

Some fights can take well over 20 minutes, and on odd occasions over an hour.

In such a case when you are dead, staying dead if the best thing to do until you are ressed, even if it takes 5 minutes. If you are in a keep and the enemy repairs the gates, but your group is still inside attacking, would you rather run all the way back to find yourself shut out and no way in, or wait 5 minutes to be ressed?

A 2 minutes timer here is way too short; 5 minutes may be OK but 10 minutes is fine. So it depends in the situation you are in, along with all the other issues, some go in your favour sometimes, other times they dont.

Yeah a forced waypoint back to your base is not the way to go, especially if that timer is just 10-20 seconds wtf. Then what’s the point of the ressing system? Ressing a dead body usually takes about that long. The corpse would just auto-waypoint back in the middle of a res. Hell no.

The AFK timer is fine as is, don’t change that.

The more I think about it, the more I’d be 100% comfortable with it if players had their spirit stand on top of their body when defeated. It’d solve everything as there’d be a lore-appropriate reason for it to happen.

Kerithlan.1659:

The more I think about it, the more I’d be 100% comfortable with it if players had their spirit stand on top of their body when defeated. It’d solve everything as there’d be a lore-appropriate reason for it to happen.

Not to mention would look cool.

That said, I’d be ok if it moved them to a map view after say a minute or 2, they can still judge the fight from the amount of dead people icons), or living allies icons. and even spectate for a little, but not really spy.

Hell, yesterday I ran up to and died on the SoR treb at Astral just so there would be a blue dot on the map for the mortar to aim for. Although, forced respawn, I am not opposed to. Would just need to be a timer. You have 5-10 seconds to res somewhere by choice, or we will be able to force respawn your to you entry spawn.

Really with all the issues in a game like this… you want them to spend time and money on this.. rolls eyes
Most people have a pattern after they succeed in a sneak attack so guessing where your going isnt hard and once your seen your covers blown anyways… or there is little to no defense force so it doesnt matter. once multiple golems are spotted my server doesnt stop searching till they are found every crossed swords is checked… so all your wishes here dont matter.

Baron.8571:

I laughed out loud when reading some of this. It is unrealistic that people can spy when they are dead? But on the same turn its realistic that a dead person can res? Please…..lol…..

This game is not based on any type of realism what so ever. Put simply, corpse spying is a valid tactic, and if you have a problem with it, move a couple of screens away from the dead person if possible? There is not much a dead body can tell you that a mobile thief or mesmer cant tell you in better depth and analysis.

Ok, move 3 trebs away from the dead body… Oh wait, you can’t move siege…

Centrix.4065:

When I die I want to look around for a little bit to see how my team is doing. I say let the corpse be able to see normally for 20-30 seconds and then force the map.

And make the “a noble soul is healing you” a bit more obvious, because a lot of players still waypoint out when others are ressing them…

This is the most suitable comment. Yes, make ppl should be able to look around for 20-30 seconds or even for 1 min after they died, but not more time than that. Then, put the map on their screen, so they won’t corpse-scout.

irishhaf.1692:

Really with all the issues in a game like this… you want them to spend time and money on this.. rolls eyes
Most people have a pattern after they succeed in a sneak attack so guessing where your going isnt hard and once your seen your covers blown anyways… or there is little to no defense force so it doesnt matter. once multiple golems are spotted my server doesnt stop searching till they are found every crossed swords is checked… so all your wishes here dont matter.

I agree that when golems are spotted most servers would be on high alert anyhow. But, there are plenty of cases where not being able to corpse spy would change the outcome of some battles. Given how time-sensitive offense and defense alike are, there would be an undeniable butterfly effect across the board in some cases.

I’m not asking them to promote this to the top of the list, but it is an issue that SHOULD be fixed. If not a forced map view, maybe only allow them to see other dead players?

I’d like a 120-second timer to kick in upon death. Once the timer reaches 120 seconds, you are automatically teleported to your main base.

I just took my charr ’s pants off and danced on a corpse spy for 7 minutes until they finally decided to leave. I don’t think anybody wants to watch that for 7 minutes.

I think for allowing to res players should not be forced to spawn but their camera distance should be lowered with fixed angle so they can not spot treb fires and report enemy group actions.

I completely agree with forcing to look at a world map. I’ve used my corpse to spot treb shots, on a heavily fortified supply camp.

really guys??? opening map when you die or burning the corpse. seriously guys your making the job of devs much harder with those suggestions. if it was me i would suggest the traditional blacking out screen. example enemy A dies from enemy B, enemy A has a few seconds to scout the area but its vision slowly blacks out until its completely he/she can no longer look out around his/her corpse. i think that is the best and the most easiest way of solving that issue, + this would make the job of the devs much easier rather than just creating a system of burning the bodies or opening the map after death.

One of the tactics though is to stay dead as a mesmer and wait for a thief to rez you. If you were forced to look at the map you wouldn’t be able to see what’s going on to tell the thief when it’s safe.

I also am not sure how much info you can gain while dead that would be worthwhile other than telling the thief when to rez you.

I stayed dead in Garrison lastnight as a mesmer and all I saw was a naked char dancing on me

+1 for being able to make ghost noises btw!

Hmm, SBI... I’m JQ... I had my Charr ranger dancing naked on some corpse spy in garrison...

Nah probably not. I think they were just there to spy on the golems, not portal.

If they can make ghost noises we need to be able to counter by forceing them to keep their view focused on anybody standing on them. After all if ya’ll wanna stay for the show game might as well give you front row seats.

Gyudon.1582:

really guys??? opening map when you die or burning the corpse. seriously guys your making the job of devs much harder with those suggestions. if it was me i would suggest the traditional blacking out screen. example enemy A dies from enemy B, enemy A has a few seconds to scout the area but its vision slowly blacks out until its completely he/she can no longer look out around his/her corpse. i think that is the best and the most easiest way of solving that issue, + this would make the job of the devs much easier rather than just creating a system of burning the bodies or opening the map after death.

Forcing map or blacking out screen is basically the same thing….

Basically:

If Player dies;
- Start delay timer 30000ms
- Open map / blackout screen

done

Only thing with the forcing map would be to disable the M key and the icon in the map that allows you to go back to the game.

But yeah burning the bodies? wtf. too much work for something so irrelevant

The whole “open map on death” is a good one. I also like the idea of knowing when allies are around to rez you (which is already shown).

One other thing that should be shown is the chat window on the map screen, so that you’ll know what you’re actually typing.

I dont mind the whole idea of seeing stuff when you’re dead, im sure all of us here would rather it this way cause pretty sure you aren’t realising we all have watched a crazy fight that we just died in and watched it for a little bit knowing by the time you spawn and run back you would have missed seeing any epicness to see the outcome (i wish in those time the screen was colour) or get a rev that is much better than opening a map on death you cant map chat to nearby people etc sick of people that just have a cry about every little thing in the game as some have stated we all can do it so that makes it balanced. The easy way to annoy them iv noticed as soon as you jump around doing any emotions they just seem to rage and leave instantly also 1 dead soldier doing nothing is an even better win for your team stop being silly people in the end he cant give off that much info wow he can give your position away so what hes already done that even if he spawns many of the things are going to be common knowledge. Besides in the end this message will be pointless im sure by feb you guys will get your way like how you do everytime people seem to winge in this game

Translation please… ^

Uhmm how exactly is this a problem?What info is the guy giving away?

Dead guy: Hahaha I am spying on them! Okay guys they are moving about…. still moving about….. now their building arrow carts…. Moving about….

Seriosly, is the dead guy spying your chat or something? He is hardly going to give away valuable intel lmao.

iiMulch.2138:

Uhmm how exactly is this a problem?What info is the guy giving away?

Dead guy: Hahaha I am spying on them! Okay guys they are moving about…. still moving about….. now their building arrow carts…. Moving about….

Seriosly, is the dead guy spying your chat or something? He is hardly going to give away valuable intel lmao.

I’ve intentionally gotten myself killed a few times in order to safely scout out towers we were firing trebuchets at. If it’s being trebbed then they know you’re going to be looking at it anyway, so having a corpse there doesn’t really change anything. It turns scouting wall/gate damage into 100% reward with 0% risk. It’s also good for helping people line up siege shots, clear counter-siege, scout supply, keep an eye on defensive strength, etc.

2 silver is the reward for flipping a tower (so dying doesn’t matter), and when your group gets there to crawl through the open wall they just revive you (which gives them a spare body to cap with).

Being able to coordinate with your commanders regarding info like that makes planning camp flips, defenses, pushes etc a lot easier. Doing it without a real penalty is a bit cheesy, but it’s still a tool you can make use of.