Guild Wars 2

Hello guys and Anet,

I was born deaf, had an opperation at a young age and i can hear now very well. But the problems is that the most people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak for wvw while commanding. I comanded a lot in the past on Far Shiverpeaks Server with using Team-chat, but now more people are going to use Teamspeak which is a problem for me. I can’t always hear everything on teamspeak and most of the boys have a hard voice which sounds sometimes as a radio xD, i hear the girls much better (they have lovely voices). It is really annoying when people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak when i can’t always hear what they are trying to say….

Anet mentioned about commander extensions in the future. Isn’t there an option like as example:
- Using Team-chat without being surpressed (We have commander squad chat too but most people dont want to use it)
-Another color for the commander tag like red instead of blue
-Extra extensions on the map for the hearing-impaired or deaf commanders
-…

Greetings and i hope everyone can understand me :-)

If you have trouble commanding, you got two options, in your case 3.
A: stop commanding pugs and run guild groups only
B: Ignore the whining and have others in your party say your commands in chat
C: Get Cryara back.

I have commanded on my server without using voice communication software. It may just be your server because my server uses voice communication but doesn’t give people a hard time that don’t use it. I’ve noticed that dead hours or at least non-prime-time hours are times where you are more likely to be able to command without your teammates wanting you on a voice communication software. I am on the voice communication sometimes and I really don’t notice that it helps all that much for commanding. It feels like more of a convenience than a necessity.

@Radian
Yea but team-chat commanding should be as good as teamspeak. But most of the people dont agree with this which is stupid actually.

@Prysin
It isn’t an option to command only guildies becuz i like to help the pugs too and the more ppl i have the better then only guildmates (Zerg numbers – supplies carrying etc). I can’t ignore the whining. Why not? They will pursue the ppl to not follow me + some random playing who is sometimes unexperienced with commanding tags up and takes it over… And about the fact of Cryara, it is his decision and i respect it so it isnt needed to pull him into this conversation…

King xiuras.3615:

Hello guys and Anet,

I was born deaf, had an opperation at a young age and i can hear now very well. But the problems is that the most people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak for wvw while commanding. I comanded a lot in the past on Far Shiverpeaks Server with using Team-chat, but now more people are going to use Teamspeak which is a problem for me. I can’t always hear everything on teamspeak and most of the boys have a hard voice which sounds sometimes as a radio xD, i hear the girls much better (they have lovely voices). It is really annoying when people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak when i can’t always hear what they are trying to say….

Anet mentioned about commander extensions in the future. Isn’t there an option like as example:
- Using Team-chat without being surpressed (We have commander squad chat too but most people dont want to use it)
-Another color for the commander tag like red instead of blue
-Extra extensions on the map for the hearing-impaired or deaf commanders
-…

Greetings and i hope everyone can understand me :-)

Supporting this 100%. Nobody should get a penalty for something they can’t help. By the way, it might not be your ears, but the speakers. I barely ever understand someone on teamspeak unless they have a clear voice, with all the noise and weird voice channeling.

Good luck in any case.

Thanks for your support! It isn’t fair indeed that i and other deaf/impaired people are getting penalties for something we can’t help. I’m hoping if we keep having positive reactions here about my suggestions Anet will do something for the deaf/hearing impaired people.

I can’t really use TeamSpeak either. I have hyperacusis.

I don’t command much these days because just like you, our server pretty much demands that people use TS. So, I stick to scouting and reporting a lot. People know who I am and when I cry wolf, there really is one there.

Not that all commanders respond to scouts though. I think there are more than a few deaf commanders out there.

Teamspeak is absolutely required for micromanagement in zerg movement across a battlefield. You’re not going to be there typing LEFT RIGHT LEFT FORWARD DOUBLE DODGE STACK EMPOWER WATER FIELDS BLAST in the middle of a fight. It’s stuff like that that wins fights.

Play with smart players who can think and know what to do. Often controlled chaos with good player is much more effective than very controlled tight melee train.

I know that Teamspeak can be useful in fights, but i agree with Junkpile. But on the other side, i type really fast (in fights too). And im most cases i succeed at winning a fight by commanding the zerg in Team-chat.

They can choose to follow you or not. It’s their choice and their problem.

This game needs way better methods of communicating. In Diablo 2 (a 15 year old game) you could hit the number pad for some predefined voice messages. Something that allowed for pre-defined phrases with the push for a button shouldn’t be too hard for a game in 2014… I hope.

I feel bad for your case, but as an experience pug commander I can tell you voice comms makes a world of difference.

I’ve commanded in team chat just like you back in IoJ days and won most fights. Like you, i developed to type fast while fighting and I thought it was effective.

I moved to higher tiers and its completely useless due to the skill level and so I had to become a better commander, and support of the use of ts by everybody.

there’s a……. different branch of commanding that seems to be pretty rare these days. it’s done through /team chat, and is extremely effective. while the concept is defined, there’s not really a definitive term for it. some call it a quarterback, some call it a lynchpin, some call it a delegation commander. regardless of what anyone prefers to call it, it requires having a few people who trust you, and a vision for the larger picture.

basically…. you’re dispatch. you’ll need 1 guy steering the zerg. they handle all the “stack, might, dodge left, push, etc” with the zerg combat in your VOIP. you have one guy organize a 5 mean team to do havoc work, and you direct him around. you have another organize a ninja team, and direct them around. have a few people scouting the map who are in your party. keep in constant communication with them, and utilize them as one force. an example would be (in very gerenal terms)“zerg hit the hills north gate. ninja team golem rush the hills south gate. havoc, take the NE, then SE camp. scouts, one poistion between the hills and (insert target server’s) closest waypoint and call out if anyone comes. the other look around for the next soft target” you can even take this a step further by organizing sentries and, if desired, yak escorts to handle the backlines work. you can even set up rotation schedules with the havoc, ninja, sentry and escort teams, so that no one’s stuck in the backlines for too long.

the problem is that this isn’t something you can just pop onto a map and start doing cold. you’ll end up stepping on a lot of toes that way, and will do more harm than good. you need to make sure those you’re directing around are ok with it before you start doing it. the most surefire way to do that is to set it up beforehand with a group of friends, and have each of them take on setting up those individual groups.

you’ll need to have a great deal of knowledge about WvW . multiple offensive siege placement locations for every area. (to give yourself multiple options to draw from) general map strategy. (what each server’s natural areas are, balance pushing intot he enemy areas without overextending your own defenders) map reading. (so you have a general idea of where your enemies are even if you can’t see them) a good understanding of strategic troop placement. (to have everyone’ actions compliment each other, and set up multipronged coordinated assaults) the ability to process everything everyone’s doing, and what your opponents are doing withing a very small timeframe (so you can utilize all of the groups quickly and effectively) fast typing. (so you can issue the orders to everyone without them needing to slow down) knowledge of each individual structure itself. (the order the upgrades should be bought in, the defensive siege placement spots, and each area’s weak spots)

hey King xiuras.3615, I definitely agree with you although personally I’m a fan of voice chat in wvw, as it allows for quicker reaction times and coordinated fights. I think one possible solution for ArenaNet would be having access to preset commands this is something I utilize in Bf4.

Obviously that option is not available in gw2 at least not right now. However there is something you can do to compensate. I think this worked well for me, even though I run tagless so I hope its useful information to you as well.

Rather than being the primary commander, I seek to be a 2nd commander supporting the primary one. For example, one commander has the majority of the people in voice chat and what I would do is seek to form a secondary group in an empty borderlands. My approach is usually to take pressure of the primary commander by attacking the same server he/she does.

Basically will start by scouting all the borderlands by myself to determine which borderlands my servers forces are (may want to keep contact with that primary commander or someone following them), enemy numbers and lastly which structures are upgraded.
Then with like 1-2 friends and look to build momentum from there, mainly by attacking where I think the enemy will least likely be able or willing to reinforce. Secondly avoiding fights till you have a sufficient group to take on the enemy numbers.

There are several advantages you gain from being in this position.
1.You will still be able to command pugs because there is a high chance that the primary commander will have people stuck in que times therefore will come to join your group. As a result you can potentially have about 15-30 players following, though they will be inexperienced (probably upleveled) I feel like they will also be quite diligent rather than trolls.
2. As a 2nd supportive commander it becomes viable option to use /say thus avoiding message suppression.
3. It becomes easy to keep track of supply.
4. By starting small and commanding at consistent times and days it allows you to build a core group (people you can rely on even if they are inexperienced)
5. You pretty much do not get harrassed to get on voice chat
6. can form parties, if you find someone you dont recognize following just send em party invite or encourage people to be in parties

Disadvantages
1. you suddenly lose the ability to take out waypointed keeps for example unless you are able to judge the proper rush times (this becomes difficult without having a lot of people as the enemies can simply outnumber your forces to defend their territory, thus losing momentum)
2. Forced to switch maps often
3. still occasional harrassment but really not often at all
4. lack of good zerg fights you end up likely having to ninja structures rather than simply force your way through ( so pretty much have to avoid the enemy and have them find you rather than you finding them)
5. Can never pick up after another commander, I cannot really describe why it just has not seemed to work out well doing so and thats despite the fact that I run tagless.

I think overall by doing this, you will be able to lead pugs just like you wanted using say chat to avoid message suppression while simultaneously avoid being harrassed to be on voice chat. I think if anything I’ll be optimistic and say you may be able gain a reputation as being a commander of the pugs without using voice chat, thus gain a core group of players who will/can support you, regardless of the harassment.

@Phantom I feel like its far too difficult to organize groups in that kind of fashion. For starters to get the kind of reputation in which to be commander micromanaging other groups takes a lot of effort and a lot of time. Furthermore, a lot of players are really in world vs world for the karma, experience and loot hence will not be willing to volunteer to do extra tasks such as scouting or being a havoc squad.

You also mentioned having someone in a voice chat to steer the zerg in fights. I think thats unrealiable as well as unneccessary. .If your a deaf commander and you have a “quarterback” leading the charge wouldnt that person be in the awkward position of having to guess your movements? or would you tag off until the fight is over and have someone else take over until the fight is over?

At least to me successful open field zerg fights are pretty much the result of positioning and group composition (which should be decided even before you set out to raid). Although voice chat helps a lot with the positioning part, on the other hand when pug commanding you pretty much do not know the people you are raiding with how many of which classes you have, and half the group do not receive the neccessary boons such as stability due to not being in a party.

Really in a voice chat when pug commanding and a fight occurs I always hear the same pattern from commanders which actually got annoying:P The following: “on me on me-stack-k fire fields/empower-might-push through cc’s-statics/chills-and occasionally right after k their blob is too big pull out or my favourite we died cause of the pugs.”

None of these commands seem to be something you necessary even need to be in a voice chat for. Of course its a different story when micromanaging player skills/ cooldowns and everyone is on the same page not when half your group is on voice chat and the other half is not.

These are just my opinions, so yeah please correct me on any parts in which I am misunderstanding.

FirstInfantry.2795:

@Phantom -snip-

it’s actually not that difficult to organize, really. i’ve done it very very often over the past year and a half (very very rarely over the past 6 or so months though, since i retired from commanding) while primarily leading militia/pugs. you just need about 5 or 6 people initially to get it started, who aren’t going to get bruised egos because someone else is designating their targets. if those initial 5 or 6 are all part of the same guild, or at the very least friends, it’s very easy to pull off. 1 to represent each team i mentioned earlier. and those representatives would fill up their own parties through whoever on the map was willing to join them. the one steering the zerg would have the tag on, because all the blue dorito actually is, is a beacon to gather around.

that being said, this isn’t about leading a zerg. there’s a great deal more to WvW than just zerging. the vast majority of players never learn that. they just group up in their zerg, and assume that’s all there is. they’re wrong.

this style of commander wouldn’t be running with the zerg. it’s something that can be done from the citadel. it’s directing around the different divisions of troops, similar to something like risk or stratego. somewhere along the way, zergmanding became the only known style. there are many other styles beyond that, that are even more effective. when “he who is no longer allowed to be named on these forums” became popular, EVERYBODY clamored to copy his style, even down to the speech patterns. while he and his guild are absolutely incredible at open field fighting and GvG, they’re not really known for paying much attention to the objectives at all. the result is dozens of wannabes screaming into their headsets, while 5 people casually stroll in and take their waypointed garrison. then those wannabes blame everyone around them, instead of realizing that they’re nowhere near as good as the guy and guild they’re trying to imitate. they just fooled themselves into thinking they were awesome because they watched some youtube videos. with “he who is no longer allowed to be named” it’s kind of like the highlander, there can be only one. once people accept that they’ll never be him, they can stop ignoring all of the other aspects of WvW. a complete commander understands that the zerg is a part, but it certainly isn’t the whole.

(continued)

the quarterback commander issues commands to each part of the whole. they don’t run around screaming for people to stack on them and blast fire fields. that’s where his buddy who has a dorito on would cover. but the one with the tag would be getting told where to attack/defend by the quarterback. what gate/wall to hit and what siege methods to use. the quarterback would also be doing the same things with the other teams. coordinating them all and directing each individual team to where they would be the most effective on the map. whether different entrances of the same targets, or different targets entirely. they can do this through team chat, or even party chat or through whispers if spies are a concern. because directing a team where to run to and attack isn’t something that the team only has a split second to react to and pull off. they can read it while on the move, change directions if needs be and start heading there, while the quarterback commander is telling the other teams where they’re needed to go. whether they need to assist the tag, or handle something on the opposite side of the map. so if you’re, say, on an away borderland, and want to take the garrison, the quarterback can tell the guy with the tag to have the zerg hit the watergate, then tell the havoc team to take the northern camps, and then tell the ninja team to try to steal the northern towers. it’s unified coordination, that’s actually pretty easy to pull off with just a small, cooperative starting core. truth be told, the entire rest of the map doesn’t even need to actually know who’s calling the shots. they can think the guy with the tag is, and that the guy from his guild in the smaller groups is leading each those groups. but the truth is, they’d all be taking orders from just one source, the quarterback commander. with militia/pugs, it’s actually more effective to have the quarterback issuing the orders through /team, because then they can see behind the scenes and really feel like they’re important parts in the grand scheme of things. when that happens, most enjoy WvW even more, and far more than just being a nameless face is a crowd. they also learn a great deal more about WvW as a whole, since they’re a direct part of all of the strategy that’s going on, and why everything is done the way it is. what areas are priorities, why they’re priorities, numerous different methods to attack and defend each of them, the importance of supply control, the importance of smaller groups, and just how much those small groups can accomplish. so it also helps train them, by making them more knowledgeable overall. they become self reliant, and some even become leaders themselves.

I’ll ignore the tl;dr and get right to the point.

Can you speak? if you can speak, you can command using Teamspeak.

Just have a friend relay important information to you in Whispers.

King xiuras.3615:

Hello guys and Anet,

I was born deaf, had an opperation at a young age and i can hear now very well. But the problems is that the most people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak for wvw while commanding. I comanded a lot in the past on Far Shiverpeaks Server with using Team-chat, but now more people are going to use Teamspeak which is a problem for me. I can’t always hear everything on teamspeak and most of the boys have a hard voice which sounds sometimes as a radio xD, i hear the girls much better (they have lovely voices). It is really annoying when people are complaining that i have to use Teamspeak when i can’t always hear what they are trying to say….

Anet mentioned about commander extensions in the future. Isn’t there an option like as example:
- Using Team-chat without being surpressed (We have commander squad chat too but most people dont want to use it)
-Another color for the commander tag like red instead of blue
-Extra extensions on the map for the hearing-impaired or deaf commanders
-…

Greetings and i hope everyone can understand me :-)

They should suck it up and understand that you also want to command even without the use of TS.Ive been commanding countless times without using TS,wiping zerg after zerg even when outnumbered bigtime,typing while fighting aswell,It Is Possible ( for those saying it isn’t,you got no clue i guess ).If you know how to command and what to do at times,it will be fine.Just make sure you have 2 mesmers in your party and a guard or 2 for those veils,portals,,buffing you constantly etc,you cant rely on randoms for that without TS,thats the only minor issue ive noticed back then,it takes to long for randoms to throw up a veil when asked.Also just make sure before you even start with commanding,that Everyone will always stay on you,no matter what.You’be surprised what youre able to accomplish without the use of Ts…people are way to TS horny,ive seen so many peope in TS only saying things like STACK,BUFF anddd GO !… Honestly,theres no need for TS if all you say is that..if youre a commander that knows what to do,playing without TS should be no a problem at all.

Also playing on FSP btw,Tyr The Brave..so you might know that i always used to command without TS back then..and still kicking major kitten .

Junkpile.7439:

Play with smart players who can think and know what to do. Often controlled chaos with good player is much more effective than very controlled tight melee train.

Seen this happen SO often. Hopefully anet actually does improve the commander system. It’s unfortunate that people like the OP who were born with medical conditions etc are bickered at because the alternative is more difficult. Friggen people sometimes…

Honestly, typing out stuff for captures can be just as good as voice communication. I can’t tell you how many times the commander says “take a sharp left after entering to avoid the AC fire” on the voice communication software and then 70% of the group that isn’t on the voice communication software goes straight and dies. If you are commanding pugs which it appears OP is doing, it is better to be able to type out stuff than to use the voice communication software because everyone on your team will see the stuff you type out. Obviously the best commanders use both but it can be redundant. It makes a lot more sense to use voice communication for organize groups because they will benefit from it more in that they will all be on it and may be organized to accommodate the commander calling for fields and blast finishers. That type of stuff doesn’t go as well when commanding pugs. IMO anyone giving you a hard time for not being in teamspeak is trying to take the game too seriously and does not understand the definition of pug players. I am on Maguuma and I am on our voice communication software about 2/3 of the time that I command but I have never once heard someone complain when I wasn’t on it. In fact, many times they ask if I’m on Mumble and I just say “no” and they respond with something like “k” every time. I don’t typically command in prime time but I have a few times and still no trouble with me not being on mumble.

@ radian dude im on mag 2, ill probly recognize ur charc name, lucky though ive seen way 2 many ppl be chewed out for not using mumble:O and also so tru

@phantom cuz I had a long wall of text, i felt obligated to read your long wall of text, thanks 4 d response

Phantom, your quarterback commander isn’t really a commander, he’s the strategist. But you do still put the tag up to assign waypoints right?

Thank you for the reactions everyone!

I can try to have a second commander beside me to use TS, but that won’t help the issue at all in certain points:

1) We can notice everytime when a border is full, 60% of the zerg will be on TS when 40% won’t be on TS. This may be a huge difference, but if i use Team-chat everyone will be informed about my strategy, plans etc. which is positive.

2)Too many complained sometimes about a strict-controlled zerg/army on TS, the game isn’t made to have powerful armies but its made to have FUN. If people don’t want to use TS then its their choice, not everyone is required to use TS while playing and having fun.

3)I noticed that since the first league started TS became very popular (everyone wants to win, i can understand that). But it is going to have a negative point for me: when the season league is over, people are used to have TS and this fact causes that i lose my commander-imperium and Team-chat is about to die in the future (second league season etc.)

Anet should make changes to the use of commander tags, but also giving options for deaf/hearing impaired people. I said the options also in my first pose of this thread. But an option that Anet can make possible is:

-Hearing impaired/deaf commanders has a red tag which show we are “handicap-people” so the ppl in wvw will know that and respect that we are commanding without TS. And also Anet can give a mini-skill bar above the weapon skill bar. The mini-skill bar can contains like “buff”, “stack”, “right”, “left”,…. in the F2,F3,F4,…-buttons (I am a warrior in wvw, but they should make those stuff possible too for other classes).

Hey king I hope anet responds to this. I feel a ‘commo rose’ from battlefield fame where holding down a key brings up a list of pre determined chat commands is sorely needed. Keep up the good fight though!

Mochann.5298:

Phantom, your quarterback commander isn’t really a commander, he’s the strategist. But you do still put the tag up to assign waypoints right?

it’s definitely not the same as the current typical commander, but it’s technically still a commander since i would be issuing commands. it goes by a lot of different names, though. it’s just not a zerg commander. i’ve done the same while leading zergs as well, but it’s just a whooooole lot to try to take on all of it at once. your brain and fingers have to operate on overdrive, and it’s just exhausting. afterwards, i would feel fried and need a nap. if there’s someone else leading the zerg, it’s much easier to manage.

i’ve run with the tag and without the tag. squad chat was nice to avoid suppression, but the dorito itself caused a bit of confusion because people would occasionally shift over to me, and i’d have to keep redirecting them back. the only time i used the waypoints was when i was instructing someone to hit a spot they weren’t familiar with, or if i had to issue commands to a newer player. for the most part, i just made sure to use very clear wording and the people i was working with knew what i was talking about. once your entire core team is comfortable working with each other in that capacity, you don’t need to worry about having your dorito on at all. especially as more and more people on the server get familiar with how that system works.

Yes TS makes commanding easier, but there are still a lot of commanders who dont use TS and still do well.

End of the day they can either follow you and keep complaining about TS, or command themselves.

If there are no other commanders available and you’re the only one there willing to tag up, then they shouldn’t be complaining that you can’t use teamspeak.

However, if there is a commander capable of leading on teamspeak, you should let him/her take charge as it would allow your server to perform much, much better especially in open field fights (assuming the commander is competent).

King xiuras.3615:

3)I noticed that since the first league started TS became very popular (everyone wants to win, i can understand that). But it is going to have a negative point for me: when the season league is over, people are used to have TS and this fact causes that i lose my commander-imperium and Team-chat is about to die in the future (second league season etc.)

You should be embracing the fact that your server is becoming more organized and effective in WvW.

We have a hearing impaired guild leader / commander on our server as well. Knowing that there is an impairment makes a huge difference in the teams response to that individuals communication habits. They are no longer urged to get on TS. They lead their guild primarily and cover down as a map commander when another commander needs relieved. I would follow her commands through text without question because I know she has the skill, knowledge and dedication to lead the fight.

The game dynamic shifts when you are not in VOIP and as a follower we adapt to her style and direction. When following her you work to keep intel flowing to her steady and anticipate commands more.

@Phlogus: That is a bit the same case as me but i like it thb.