Guild Wars 2

Played for a while tonight. Our border had been pretty much wiped, so started by setting a ram up for others to use (3 of us there) while I killed 3 catas enemy had left and a couple archers on the wall (NPC). Capped tower. Tier 1.

Capped sentry.

Moved to EB as it had been reset. Capped keep, 3 towers, two camps, met 3 enemies that we killed over the next 30 minutes or so, so 39 minutes after I had logged in got to tier 5. Took a long time to reach tier 3 and start earning- probably 20 minutes.

One decent zerg fight will put you to tier 6….

Then ran out of objectives to take. Enemy camps t3 and defended, no enemies flipping our sentries or camps, not enough players on map to try and round them up and push for another tower. Take a look at Deserted BL, nothing within distance to cap. Same with home BL which has only com on and is now queued. Other enemy BL has 3-4 man thief gank squads roaming next to all 3 exits, and there isn’t enough people on the map to push out.

We’re scoring last in the match up. No wood chest last week, and only 3 pips for rank 2300, so a grand total of 4 pips.

Decay set in. Logged out. Logged into another game. Had fun in the remainder of my valuable leisure time.

I’m going to create an app that has a decay timer and sell it to your bosses at work.

I’m going to be rich!

Oh wait ….

https://qz.com/592224/a-newspaper-thought-it-was-a-good-idea-to-install-motion-sensors-at-its-workers-desks/

Well crap.

BUT sometimes you don’t see action and what about scouts or roamers? If we are making or refreshing siege or running on that HUGE desert bl map it isn’t a fair or viable option. Decay should be slower at least on a desert bl please since it is wayyyyyyyy more huge.

After playing with these changes for a couple nights as a solo roamer, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not hard to maintain participation. However, in order to maintain participation efficiency, I would have to change a few things:

I roam primarily on DBL. I start off by capturing the spawn camp {+10}, and then flip both nearby sentries {+0}, {+0}. I’ll have about 7-8 minutes on my timer after doing that. At this point, I normally flip the three shrines at the nearest keep {+0}, {+0}, {maybe reset to 2 minutes}. Now, it’s more efficient to skip the shrines. They are a net negative on the timer after flipping a camp and if you get killed along the way, it’s even worse.

I frequently solo flip the spawn tower. Now, I think I’ll be less inclined to do so. Before, the risk of being killed was worth it because even if I got killed and failed, I still had slightly less than 10 minutes on the timer from doing siege damage to the walls. Now, I can find myself with under 1 minute in the same situation.

As I run through friendly structures, I would refresh the siege. Now, it only makes sense to do this if I have a decent time buffer.

I often responded to requests for help. Now, I have to keep my timer in mind and determine if it’s worth risking going to help and possibly not getting there in time or getting killed before receiving some participation.

Dawdler.8521:

Gop.8713:

But this is seriously broken for scouts. The easy fix for that is to make escorting a yak give enough of a buff to the decay timer to allow you to run another yak . . .

Enough? Give it 10m.

No really, dolly escort events giving participation – which as far as I know they dont, not mentioned in the post listing the timers so PLEASE do correct me if I’m wrong – would pretty much solve the “scouting issue” as getting dollys into objectives is an important part of watching over it (and adds something to do around it).

Dollys is also a continous and steady activity, unlike capping an objective (once it’s capped, you cant exactly recap it if the enemy dont cap it) and a natural magnet for enemies, which leads to even more activity if they are escorted.

That is WvW.

Not giving bloody 5 minutes timer to killing a kittening kittened veteran creature no one gives a flying kitten about unless its veteran daily.

It’s mentioned in the post as giving 2 minutes. Listed as ‘defending a caravan.’ I agree it should be more.

Baldrick.8967:

Played for a while tonight. Our border had been pretty much wiped, so started by setting a ram up for others to use (3 of us there) while I killed 3 catas enemy had left and a couple archers on the wall (NPC). Capped tower. Tier 1.

Capped sentry.

Moved to EB as it had been reset. Capped keep, 3 towers, two camps, met 3 enemies that we killed over the next 30 minutes or so, so 39 minutes after I had logged in got to tier 5. Took a long time to reach tier 3 and start earning- probably 20 minutes.

One decent zerg fight will put you to tier 6….

Then ran out of objectives to take. Enemy camps t3 and defended, no enemies flipping our sentries or camps, not enough players on map to try and round them up and push for another tower. Take a look at Deserted BL, nothing within distance to cap. Same with home BL which has only com on and is now queued. Other enemy BL has 3-4 man thief gank squads roaming next to all 3 exits, and there isn’t enough people on the map to push out.

We’re scoring last in the match up. No wood chest last week, and only 3 pips for rank 2300, so a grand total of 4 pips.

Decay set in. Logged out. Logged into another game. Had fun in the remainder of my valuable leisure time.

PUBG is pretty fun atm. the last Addons to WoW and ToR have been great too.
Try those till they “fix” this mess, well if they ever will…

Sly.9518:

Funny you say that look at my post history I mainly play thief (alt Power Rev and FA Ele) solo Roaming I love the change it promotes active play vs sitting in keep/spawn afk leeching till decay hits.

I have had zero issues with keeping max participation while solo Roaming.

All I see are leechers complaining that they can’t sit afk any more.

I might be going out on a limb here, but how do you sit afk and gain participation? If this is somehow against the rules somewhere, don’t reply to that.

As far as I know, you have actually to do things to gain participation, you can’t merely go into wvw and sit there, can you? What I do, and what everyone else I know does, is I go in, I do stuff, and when I’m ready to go to bed and the night is over, I clean out my bags and collect whatever loot, chests, pips, tickets, whatever it is these days, the system created in place gives me. What I don’t do, and what no one that I know does, is forgo the rewards the system is about to hand them and log out in 2 seconds after hours of work. No one. If this is what counts as “afk leeching” then everyone is guilty of this, and is merely a result of how the system works.

It’s like painting a picture. You paint and paint and paint, and when you’re done, you are rewarded with a nice painting to hang on the wall. You (hopefully) don’t immediately rip that painting into shreds when you’re done. You can of course if you want to, but that would leave you with a lot of hard work for bits and pieces when you could have had a painting. You reap the rewards of your work. And if that is by getting chests or pips or a painting to hang on your wall, then so be it.

And if this is an issue of people waiting for the system to give them the rewards taking up slots when there happens to be a queue, there are so many ways to avoid this other than enforcing an aggressive decay on every single person out there. I’ve seen several good suggestions in the thread here including cashing out with limiters, or even letting people pick up where they left off – you don’t rip yesterdays work on your painting into shreds, but continue the day after, giving you a sense of progression and consistency, working towards a goal, instead of starting from a blank canvas every day. Or what about a lobby? There is already one in place, sort of.

Now if afk leeching is something else that disrupts wvw somehow that I don’t know about, then I’m sorry for taking up your time.

Men everyone is all over the place in the official WvW forums…so let me get some over the place stuff out also:

Anet saw the complaints about afking for pips and participation….and tried decay for them…
When people have always akitten in the first place even before pips and participation…"I"afk in WvW after running raids of 1-20hrs…to go washroom, do a few chores, etc. to get back my mojo back for more WvW.
Commanders and squads used to take 5 min break…
Etc.
Never seen that many pip afkers in the first place, queues now aren’t as bad even during prime for t3-4 links so…

Mostly you killed 2 WvW aspects for me with the complaints to do something…leading to decay.

I can’t have days of just thief spamming swords all over the place…yes and yes still can as people would say but I like getting my rewards as well as enjoying the best gamemode of gw2.

I can’t have days of just defending a tower in the middle of blob land and just recapping the nearest camp from time to time with decay.

Pretty much sums up what has been lost in my regards.

As for zerging decay doesn’t affect at all and for normal roaming neither.
Only exception is when all maps have a lot of RIs or all your color that decay becomes an issue at times.

I still think the outnumbered change is all that was needed***

Blue player on Green Alpine Borderland, off-peak a.m. – didn’t see much of a change once I got going, stalled a bit at the start which was the only time I saw the timer unless I deliberately stopped.

Plenty of stuff was flipped back and forth due to me being on a rival borderland. Joined a small-squad to help capture the keep, paired up a few times to take Scout locations. It helped that the Greens were active in retaking their locations.

Raiden.5621:

Any chance we could see the full timer on the bar?

This would be nice. As it is it’s rather opaque until you hit that final ticking clock when it starts to shift the colour to the darker decay-orange. At least if the clock ticks up you know you’re participating or we can see if something isn’t clicking when it should be.

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Same experience tonight . . .

Logged in to roam, found plenty to do, early on was a little outmanned without being outnumbered which resulted in some ganking but not enough to seriously degrade the bar . . .

Once things settled I started scouting, tiering a keep which was fine bc it was a close run. But soon, roamers appeared from both other servers. Good news, right? No, bc they kited. Good play from them but the result was while I held the camp for a good while my participation fell from full t6 to 25% t5, as I wasn’t actually killing anything. That was a lot of positive activity for my server that I was punished for . . .

So I quit scouting, and went back to cap/backcap, or ktrain, or whatever you want to call it. Had no trouble keeping participation up for the rest of the night . . .

Take from that what you will . . .

EDIT: Another thing that bothers me about this is how long it takes to tick the timer down once I’m done. I’ve been sitting here typing this waiting for my rewards to stop and I’m still t5, the same place I was when I was defending that camp lol. What’s the point . . ?

EDIT EDIT: The other thing that has consistently bothered me about this is that I now have to think about the decay timer. In the past I might have preferred to test a tiered tower or keep to gauge defense, but now I see that as a waste of time, since a failed attempt puts me into participation degradation. So now roaming and scouting is just flipping basically worthless objectives, back and forth . . .

I never really saw the problem this patch was meant to fix but I do believe that they wouldn’t have bothered if the problem wasn’t serious. The hiccup they’ve hit is that farmers are only going to care about how to maintain their participation, so they will always find the most efficient way of doing so. Meanwhile actual players will continue to expect participation to flow from their natural activities without their having to think about it . . .

darksome.1697:

I might be going out on a limb here, but how do you sit afk and gain participation? If this is somehow against the rules somewhere, don’t reply to that.

A common behaviour is for people to have been actively participating for a while, and then letting their participation to run down while they get the rewards. This is relatively benign, albeit probably annoying in primetime when they might be occupying a slot that puts someone else into a queue. (If they’re responsible, though, they’ll shift to Obsidian Sanctum, or at least to a map that isn’t full.)

A more abusive behaviour, which I think is what the new decay timers were looking to fight, is if instead of simply letting their decay timer run out, someone runs out every ten minutes, does the absolute minimum required to reset their timer, and then returns to spawn.

Deihnyx.6318:

Sly.9518:

Deihnyx.6318:

Lord is on the left, destructible wall on the right. Where do you see guards?

And yes, you get decay timer reset if you cap the tower only. But if you get lord to very low and a other players happens to come by and kill you, you get absolutely no participation.

You get decay reset for dealing any siege damage per hit on walls too. Oh noooo mechcanics, and you mean the guards that line the walls and are inside near those stairs? It’s not like you have to go out of your way and take 10 seconds to kill a guard.

That’s just beside the point, that was just one example of a situation I faced where I got the timer while being ACTIVE, which you keep repeating cannot be true.

Before, as long as you were participating, you could actively play the way you wanted. Rushing lord has always been a thing. When you’re a blob you usually rush lord once the wall is down, you don’t have to kill everything when you’re alone either. Especially when you know that enemies are gonna come soon it makes sense to rush lord.
Now it changed from “You are a leecher” to “you don’t play well according to the timer”. Well. That’s dumb, sorry.

The point is that patch forces you to constantly pay attention to a timer and act accordingly. A good system should be completely invisible to players playing normally.

Let’s again remind the audience that this patch doesn’t prevent all forms of afking, but is putting pressure on legit players as well.

Again, all i do is roam, the only thing i go out of my way to cap is sentries, and i have no problem keeping participation up >90% of the time i’m playing, you simply need to l2p and stop arguing for a great change to be reversed just because you cannot adapt, it is not needed, suck it up butter cup.

Jayne.9251:

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

It was my mistake for taking time to help build siege inside instead flipping an objective for credit. It was my mistake for not leaving when the enemy zerg was at the gates with more healers than my arrow cart could deal. So I guess a hopeless last stand to try to stall the enemies for reinforcements to arrive isn’t how the game mode is played. Its just about server stacked zergs karma training objectives. Lesson learned.

It’s that, or being worried about some kittenty rewards you could get in pve much quicker. Since this pip patch its all about omg participation omg missing out on rewards. Kinda wish anet would take it out so people would play this game mode as they did for years.

Exactly right. The point is the game mode, not the rewards. The rewards were added to benefit ppl already playing the game mode and to draw more ppl into the game mode . . .

The complaining is coming from the fact that the reward system is instead punishing ppl for the way they’ve always enjoyed the game mode . . .

Jayne.9251:

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

The original statement was about keep defense not out in the open, and not every defensive situation works like that especially when it may be 5 defending vs 25 sieging outside.

It’s difficult to get kills off zergs until you have more numbers or they walk into an area covered by a half dozen of your siege and the players are absolutely dumb enough to keep standing in it, you’re certainly not going to dive into that to try and get a kill to keep your meter up. The only thing to get is the defense event, or hit their siege which isn’t always possible.

“get good” lol, yeah next time he should just make the scout call on the keep, then leave and go roam for a kill.

The problem is if your stuck on a borderland that you pretty much own 100%. I have had this happen all other bls were qued and I was on the dessert borderland. We owned all of it since the other servers really wouldn’t touch it. So there was no way to really get participation except for the occasional camp that flipped by the time I would run from one camp and then to another to flip my decay was already going and my participation was gone. The other issue with the decay timer is if your severely outnumbered this has also happened. there would be about 4 enemy zergs running versus 10 of us we would get mowed down every time we got out of spawn by one of those 4 zergs. There were so many we didn’t get a chance to kill anyone to get participation we were instantly dead. We couldn’t switch bls due to ques either so if you own the map your pretty much guaranteed decay and if your super out numbered your stuck with decay as well. They really should of teasted this decay factor out before it was implemented or at least give it as an option in a poll for us to vote on.

xikira.3264:

The problem is if your stuck on a borderland that you pretty much own 100%. I have had this happen all other bls were qued and I was on the dessert borderland. We owned all of it since the other servers really wouldn’t touch it. So there was no way to really get participation except for the occasional camp that flipped by the time I would run from one camp and then to another to flip my decay was already going and my participation was gone….

As there was no change for capturing camps, I don’t know why this is now a problem.
And when camps change color, shrines and sentries do a well.

xikira.3264:

… The other issue with the decay timer is if your severely outnumbered this has also happened. there would be about 4 enemy zergs running versus 10 of us we would get mowed down every time we got out of spawn by one of those 4 zergs. There were so many we didn’t get a chance to kill anyone to get participation we were instantly dead. We couldn’t switch bls due to ques either so if you own the map your pretty much guaranteed decay and if your super out numbered your stuck with decay as well. They really should of teasted this decay factor out before it was implemented or at least give it as an option in a poll for us to vote on.

If there are 4 enymy zergs on the map, there are lots of sentries, yaks and guards to kill. The map is big enough to avoid 4 zergs.
And if you are always killed wherever you go, you lost participation before the change as well.

Jayne.9251:

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Yes, Seriously. You don’t necessarily find players to kill. I’m happy for you if you always find targets, even during off hours. Same thing if you’re facing a blob while defending your tower or whatever.
Also it has absolutely nothing to do with getting better, as demonstrated below. It’s just adding yet one more constraint to a mode to play a specific way rather than another.
Just why exactly is that a problem to give participation for confronting or just doing some damage to a blob in the first place? It doesn’t have to reset 10 minutes but at least acknowledge that you are doing something.

VaaCrow.3076:

Again, all i do is roam, the only thing i go out of my way to cap is sentries, and i have no problem keeping participation up >90% of the time i’m playing, you simply need to l2p and stop arguing for a great change to be reversed just because you cannot adapt, it is not needed, suck it up butter cup.

I was actively waiting for the next guy to throw the l2p argument.
Please realize how irrelevant and ironic that is.
One of the most efficient way to maintain participation is… oh yeah right. You follow a commander and you run on everything. Or you know, spam 1 on everything. How’s that for l2p hm?
So to sum it up? Play mindlessly, good or not, get participation. Take some risks and run off hours, scout, hide in keep to portal in? You face the risk of losing participation. Hm hm great argument the l2p indeed.

The l2p is absolutely irrelevant here, because we’re talking of participation. Unless my definition of the word is wrong, taking part of an activity, even without winning, is participating. If that’s no longer the case the wording has to be changed.

And by the way, it’s kind of funny that this definition of participating is defended now, while it faced so much opposition in the pip train “because it would create k-trains”.
People should make up their mind sometimes.

Also, why calling that a great change exactly? What purpose did it serve? Avoiding akfers? Surely some of them, but we know there are still ways around it for afking, you just gotta play a certain way, while making other ways much less efficient, even for legit players.
All this is doing is creating yet another fuss here, because unless you’re like that guy who thinks everyone is a leech, there’s quite a number of posts here of people being affected by it, and rightfully so. You on your server being fine does not and will never mean that everyone not in your situation is automatically playing badly. We’re talking of participation, not winning rate or anything.
And last thing about “great change”. I hope you do realize that it didn’t bring anything new for you, there is no new content. All is does it pushing restrictions on players.

Deihnyx.6318:

Jayne.9251:

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Yes, Seriously. You don’t necessarily find players to kill. I’m happy for you if you always find targets, even during off hours. Same thing if you’re facing a blob while defending your tower or whatever.
Also it has absolutely nothing to do with getting better, as demonstrated below. It’s just adding yet one more constraint to a mode to play a specific way rather than another.
Just why exactly is that a problem to give participation for confronting or just doing some damage to a blob in the first place? It doesn’t have to reset 10 minutes but at least acknowledge that you are doing something.

I didn’t say get good. I said “at least try.” Facedive into the blob and take out as many as you can before you’re overwhelmed. Respawn and run back and do it again. It’s those kinds of players that make a difference in WvW. The ones that keep on trying, despite the odds.

I also fully understand that there are certain situations where you don’t get credit.

I’m saying folks shouldn’t be in WvW for the rewards. It’s never really ever been about the rewards.

Those coming for the rewards are in it for themselves; which is the exact opposite of what you want in WvW.

XenesisII.1540:

….you’re certainly not going to dive into that to try and get a kill to keep your meter up.

That’s exactly what you do. Then respawn and run back.

Rejoice that you took out two before you died.

Suicide an enemy treb. Keep going back until it’s destroyed.

Tengu Talons.7921:

Jayne.9251:

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

It was my mistake for taking time to help build siege inside instead flipping an objective for credit. It was my mistake for not leaving when the enemy zerg was at the gates with more healers than my arrow cart could deal. So I guess a hopeless last stand to try to stall the enemies for reinforcements to arrive isn’t how the game mode is played. Its just about server stacked zergs karma training objectives. Lesson learned.

It’s your mistake for going into WvW for the rewards.

Jayne.9251:

Those coming for the rewards are in it for themselves; which is the exact opposite of what you want in WvW.

Jayne, I understand that playing a game for its bits of 0 and 1 in your account is not what that mode is intended for. However, that’s all Anet added: rewards. It’s absolutely obvious that players are gonna want to play to have fun, but also to work towards something, both aren’t exclusive.
I play after getting diamond. I joined guild missions last night, despite “not having” to for the rewards. But it’s not because I don’t “need” the rewards that unfairly being decayed cannot act negatively on my mood when it happens.

This “playing for the reward” argument has been going on for too long. Everyone care about it one way or another. And that’s including players who don’t want them, because they’re still actively trying to defend the pre-reward version of their mode.

I’ve been saying it since the beginning, it’d be all easier without the timegated aspect of it, or/and if rewards were obtained by actively doing events rather than passively getting ticks, but they won’t change that.

We could have weekend special events, funny things like hey for this match everyone has constant superspeed, for this other match, you get an extra pip for being the world with the most towers, that other match let’s have a random Vale Guardian pop somewhere in the map and the team to down it gets many points and/or pips. You know, things that would keep the game constantly fresh, matches different from one another, dynamic events. That’s how you keep active people, and not by giving a carrot only to tell people eeeeeh don’t come here for that, and literally doing nothing else.
There are SO MANY great things that can be done in a mode like that.

Deihnyx.6318:

We could have weekend special events, funny things like hey for this match everyone has constant superspeed, for this other match,

If you take the time to invest in your server community you will find that a lot of servers do stuff like this themselves. Player-generated events, which enhances both your gameplay and sense of community.

My server, for example, had a once a month class theme blob — all rangers, all mesmers, all necros with pets (necro raid we stole blatantly from Maguuma and was hilarious).

Every Saturday they host “drunk raids,” it’s also entertaining. And for funzies. And not serious.

Other servers host newbie defense and how to fight effectively in a zerg clinics.

All done by volunteers from the community that care deeply about this game mode and enrich your gameplay far more than any reward could do.

Deihnyx.6318:

Jayne.9251:

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Yes, Seriously. You don’t necessarily find players to kill. I’m happy for you if you always find targets, even during off hours. Same thing if you’re facing a blob while defending your tower or whatever.
Also it has absolutely nothing to do with getting better, as demonstrated below. It’s just adding yet one more constraint to a mode to play a specific way rather than another.
Just why exactly is that a problem to give participation for confronting or just doing some damage to a blob in the first place? It doesn’t have to reset 10 minutes but at least acknowledge that you are doing something.

VaaCrow.3076:

Again, all i do is roam, the only thing i go out of my way to cap is sentries, and i have no problem keeping participation up >90% of the time i’m playing, you simply need to l2p and stop arguing for a great change to be reversed just because you cannot adapt, it is not needed, suck it up butter cup.

I was actively waiting for the next guy to throw the l2p argument.
Please realize how irrelevant and ironic that is.
One of the most efficient way to maintain participation is… oh yeah right. You follow a commander and you run on everything. Or you know, spam 1 on everything. How’s that for l2p hm?
So to sum it up? Play mindlessly, good or not, get participation. Take some risks and run off hours, scout, hide in keep to portal in? You face the risk of losing participation. Hm hm great argument the l2p indeed.

The l2p is absolutely irrelevant here, because we’re talking of participation. Unless my definition of the word is wrong, taking part of an activity, even without winning, is participating. If that’s no longer the case the wording has to be changed.

And by the way, it’s kind of funny that this definition of participating is defended now, while it faced so much opposition in the pip train “because it would create k-trains”.
People should make up their mind sometimes.

Also, why calling that a great change exactly? What purpose did it serve? Avoiding akfers? Surely some of them, but we know there are still ways around it for afking, you just gotta play a certain way, while making other ways much less efficient, even for legit players.
All this is doing is creating yet another fuss here, because unless you’re like that guy who thinks everyone is a leech, there’s quite a number of posts here of people being affected by it, and rightfully so. You on your server being fine does not and will never mean that everyone not in your situation is automatically playing badly. We’re talking of participation, not winning rate or anything.
And last thing about “great change”. I hope you do realize that it didn’t bring anything new for you, there is no new content. All is does it pushing restrictions on players.

I’m sorry, but you’re coming into a game mode that I’ve played almost exclusively since release, not because you have a desire to play it, but because you want a carrot. You play for participation, i have OUTLINED the fact that i as a solo roamer have ZERO issue with gaining/maintaining it, i don’t follow a commander, i don’t spam one, i don’t cap keeps. You ignore this, because if i can do it solo, and you can’t do it with a commander, then you’re doing something wrong. but that is fine, You as a player clearly cannot be at fault, it must be the system, thats my mistake. /s

Participation works as intended, if you die, you lose some, great. *IT IS A COMPETETIVE GAME MODE. WINNING FIGHTS SHOULD BE REWARDED, LOSING THEM SHOULD BE MUCH LESS SO. *

It’s no fun if the losing team quits for the week because they can’t get participation. I mean, maybe some people like sitting on empty borderlands T3-ing every tower, but that’s definitely not what I come to wvw for.

Besides, if the losers don’t want to play, who will flip the camps back so the winners can keep up participation?

VaaCrow.3076:

Participation works as intended, if you die, you lose some, great. *IT IS A COMPETETIVE GAME MODE. WINNING FIGHTS SHOULD BE REWARDED, LOSING THEM SHOULD BE MUCH LESS SO. *

Except you get nothing for loosing. Not less.

Imagine the following scenario:

There are two people in WvW. They are enemies. No one cares about objectives, they just fight. Two participants of WvW. One has the better class/build/skill and win over the other every time. 10 fights, 15 fights, 20 fights. The looser keep trying because he wants to figure out how to win, but he just cant. Besides, there’s no one else in WvW anyway. So both keep participating in WvW.

Now guess how much actual participation that loosing player gets.

No really, guess.

kittening fix this. I can’t roam without losing kitten.

VaaCrow.3076:

Participation works as intended, if you die, you lose some, great. *IT IS A COMPETETIVE GAME MODE. WINNING FIGHTS SHOULD BE REWARDED, LOSING THEM SHOULD BE MUCH LESS SO. *

Winning awards bags and wxp, losing doesn’t. There you go.
Participation is something else, it’s… participation.

And really, I’m not getting into that whole “I am worthy cause I’ve been playing for years” again.

If you want us to play blob kitten, enable chests at EoTM.

I wouldnt mind seeing rewards for participation reward participation rather than just success….albeit at a lesser rate.

The best, most fun, thrilling, exciting fight Ive ever won in WvW wouldnt have been if the other guy, the one who lost, hadnt been there. His participation in the fight, even if he did lose, contributed to the game.

I’m not one to complain often but I just got into silver wvw rank and i still can’t finish all my chests this week! I’m a regular wvw player 2-3 hours everyday and i get that you want to make the backpack longer to get but a lot of us have jobs and lives, this is just stupid at this point that i have to grind when there are no tags even at 1AM. I’ve put off my complaints until now in hopes Anet would come to realize how frustrating it is but looks like they won’t unless 90% of the game rants about it.

I think the new system is not bad tbh

Just in the case of players not being able to get to the next objective because they get caught by too many enemy players on the way then it can be annoying

But there would be an easy and good solution for that:
If you get killed by an enemy player you get +30 seconds on the decay timer

That allows people to keep trying to push a close camp for example without sacrificing all their participation for it even if enemies defend it or spawncamp them

And i think it cannot be exploited because it just lasts 30 seconds and you need to actually respawn or get rezzed which again requires being active
It would just serve as a safety decay prevention if you are heavily outmanned and/or just get ganked continually

Orangensaft.7139:

I think the new system is not bad tbh

Just in the case of players not being able to get to the next objective because they get caught by too many enemy players on the way then it can be annoying

But there would be an easy and good solution for that:
If you get killed by an enemy player you get +30 seconds on the decay timer

That allows people to keep trying to push a close camp for example without sacrificing all their participation for it even if enemies defend it or spawncamp them

And i think it cannot be exploited because it just lasts 30 seconds and you need to actually respawn or get rezzed which again requires being active
It would just serve as a safety decay prevention if you are heavily outmanned and/or just get ganked continually

Why aren’t you getting guard kill on the close camp?

Baldrick.8967:

Played for a while tonight. Our border had been pretty much wiped, so started by setting a ram up for others to use (3 of us there) while I killed 3 catas enemy had left and a couple archers on the wall (NPC). Capped tower. Tier 1.

Capped sentry.

Moved to EB as it had been reset. Capped keep, 3 towers, two camps, met 3 enemies that we killed over the next 30 minutes or so, so 39 minutes after I had logged in got to tier 5. Took a long time to reach tier 3 and start earning- probably 20 minutes.

One decent zerg fight will put you to tier 6….

Then ran out of objectives to take. Enemy camps t3 and defended, no enemies flipping our sentries or camps, not enough players on map to try and round them up and push for another tower. Take a look at Deserted BL, nothing within distance to cap. Same with home BL which has only com on and is now queued. Other enemy BL has 3-4 man thief gank squads roaming next to all 3 exits, and there isn’t enough people on the map to push out.

We’re scoring last in the match up. No wood chest last week, and only 3 pips for rank 2300, so a grand total of 4 pips.

Decay set in. Logged out. Logged into another game. Had fun in the remainder of my valuable leisure time.

I wish the Devs would read your post.

Fun went away.

Now we have to calculate every moment in WvW.

Ridiculous.

I hope someone has said this already in these 7 pages, this isn’t rocket science. Why not allow players to resume their pip status exactly where they left off when they logged off? They will start with whatever level of pips they had when they last logged off. No one has to go afk to wring out their reservoir. Am I drunk?

Shadow Gathering.5649:

I hope someone has said this already in these 7 pages, this isn’t rocket science. Why not allow players to resume their pip status exactly where they left off when they logged off? They will start with whatever level of pips they had when they last logged off. No one has to go afk to wring out their reservoir. Am I drunk?

Besides the idea being a technical pain in the kitten; what’s stopping a player from logging out and logging back in to squeeze their pips for everything they can get? It sounds really stupid but building a system that enables that seems like a counterproductive idea.

This thread is getting beyond ridicilous. If rewards is all you want you picked the most useless game mode for it. History proved it already.

These WvW updates are reminding me of when Devon Carver was the designer for WvW.

Looking at McKenna’s linkedin profile, it’s no wonder we’re seeing these changes to WvW. There needs to be a more seasoned, knowledgeable person running the design team than these people who have no real experience.

Offair.2563:

This thread is getting beyond ridicilous. If rewards is all you want you picked the most useless game mode for it. History proved it already.

That’s not a very good analysis of the thread content. I haven’t seen any posts here complaining that players came for the rewards and aren’t getting them. Actually, players who came for the rewards can still easily get them, so they have no complaints. The players in this thread are complaining that rewards were introduced but are being distributed based on playstyle rather than contribution. This was probably unintended, and will probably be remedied. So while I agree that it is a little silly for ppl — including me — to get so fussed about it, it is frustrating in the interim so it’s kind of understandable . . .

I can’t play WvW in this state. I’m a roamer and have trouble even maintaining tier 3 reward level. Not to mention I have kids and stuff and feel like I can barely take a pee break for myself. First time I’ve ever felt the need to complain here on these forums in 5 years of playing this game. It’s downright draconian in its current state.

Gwydion.1063:

I can’t play WvW in this state. I’m a roamer and have trouble even maintaining tier 3 reward level. Not to mention I have kids and stuff and feel like I can barely take a pee break for myself. First time I’ve ever felt the need to complain here on these forums in 5 years of playing this game. It’s downright draconian in its current state.

Anet found a new source of revenue for people like you and me after implementing the new decay timer…bathroom ready systems:

There is ALWAYS going to be a problem with rewards set on a fixed timer. Either it’s “too generous” and people afk for extra rewards, or it’s stupidly unfair, and you get threads like these. In general, players are gonna appreciate when it’s more towards the former than the latter, but really guys. Why is there even a timer in the first place?

Make reward track points and pip gain like the WXP system: you get them INSTANTLY. A few reward track points every time you gain WXP based on what you’re doing, increased by EXP boosters as it works currently, and also a new bar that tracks “pip points”. Get enough and you get a pip, with bonus points based on outnumbered, WvW rank, etc. Boom, you’re REWARDED FOR ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING and get nothing for afking.

IMHO without reward track points and pip progress being instant like WXP, there’s always going to be this issue of the timer being too lenient or too harsh.

Jayne.9251:

It’s your mistake for going into WvW for the rewards.

The mode is kitten, the only reason to play at this point is for rewards or as a social experience with your guild.

Anet have done nothing to fix the mode in fact if anything its even worse because they won’t take the measures needed to fix the actual problems with it.

Sylvyn.4750:

Gwydion.1063:

I can’t play WvW in this state. I’m a roamer and have trouble even maintaining tier 3 reward level. Not to mention I have kids and stuff and feel like I can barely take a pee break for myself. First time I’ve ever felt the need to complain here on these forums in 5 years of playing this game. It’s downright draconian in its current state.

Anet found a new source of revenue for people like you and me after implementing the new decay timer…bathroom ready systems:

I lol’d.
Mostly because something like that happened to me earlier this past week.
I got up to grab a drink, throw the laundry in the dryer and visit the washroom — I come back and my bar’s gone red and was down to T3.
Thank goodness for shared participation. Whenever I don’t have it and am stuck on scouting duty I get the following tune stuck rolling through my head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTicU8jklyI

~ Kovu

Mal.1670:

There is ALWAYS going to be a problem with rewards set on a fixed timer. Either it’s “too generous” and people afk for extra rewards, or it’s stupidly unfair, and you get threads like these. In general, players are gonna appreciate when it’s more towards the former than the latter, but really guys. Why is there even a timer in the first place?

Make reward track points and pip gain like the WXP system: you get them INSTANTLY. A few reward track points every time you gain WXP based on what you’re doing, increased by EXP boosters as it works currently, and also a new bar that tracks “pip points”. Get enough and you get a pip, with bonus points based on outnumbered, WvW rank, etc. Boom, you’re REWARDED FOR ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING and get nothing for afking.

IMHO without reward track points and pip progress being instant like WXP, there’s always going to be this issue of the timer being too lenient or too harsh.

At the bare minimum, reward track progress should be based on raw WXP gain (like the PVP reward tracks do with rank points) instead of this degrees-of-seperation participation garbage. That would literally solve all the problems: rewards would be based on active play, and you won’t get penalized because you had to wait out RI on a camp or run halfway across the map to find something to kill/capture.