Guild Wars 2

Some mmorpgs have this feature to prevent some skills and ccs to be overused and spammed by “many” people. This system can be added to wvw areas to prevent cc spam or hammer stun trains in wvw.

Example : When you get a stun/fear/knockdown/blowout etc. for the first time, you are inflicted with the cc skill’s full(100%) duration or potency. Then it decreases to 50%-25% respectively for 2nd 3rd times, then you gain immunity against ccs for a duration in fight.

If you are doing guild raids or coordinated raids in wvw, you will see that 80% of the guilds are using cc trains to defeat enemy. This just makes wvw fights unenjoyable and short in duration. There aren’t enough stability or stun break or any counter-ability for this continuos cc spam of “numerous” players. Make wvw fights depend more on tactics instead of cc spam. With current system if a guild has more hammer warriors and lf eles they automatically win, because the other team can’t even use any skill. They can use 5-10s stability and a stun break to evade the first impact, but after ? This diminishing return system can prevent multiple uses of ccs by multiple ppl respectively in a point of fight. And it can allow lower scale(10-15 person) guilds to have fun against organised and crowded raids in wvw too. Please don’t obligate us to do large scale(30+) raids including at least 10-20 person cc groups. I wanted to provide a constructive feedback instead of just showing the negative point, thanks.

Heard! Nothing more annoying then getting cc’ed to death by much larger numbers that could have easy just dps’ed you down anyway if you didnt act very fast. A small cc imunity can work to prevent this. Seen it work before.

Ps. Imagine if we had friendly fire on in wvw. Now that would call for some tactic’s. Bye bye AOE Zergs.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

And I do understand that you mention stability in the original post, but this is why Anet won’t put in a diminishing returns. Especially with how they now have boons prioritize party members. If you have 10-15 people of whom you have around 4-5 guardians you should have no stability/cc troubles. If you want to kill those larger groups you have to be willing to put in the extra effect to coordinate within your group of when people will use their stability skills.

It would also be very annoying to have a solo camp flipper run away from your patrol group just because there is cc diminishing return.

And if larger group would just dps you down anyway why is cc-ing you along way problem? Oh wait, you want to kill when your stronger and escape successfuly when not, well life aint fair that way…

This is a bad idea. Stability and also the fact that condition removal clears all stacks of a condition. Also stuns don’t stack duration.

Ironically, CC is how you STOP hammer trains and if anything it’s under powered against them.

So people thinks that endless Warrior Hammer F1 ability is kinda cool and okey. And never forget wvw is not about camps !

We are raiding guild almost every night running with 15-18 people. We are doing good fights but if other guilds has more warrior and no ability to play suprise!! they hammer bash you and win! Doesnt this happens to you? If they want to keep Small Scale guild raids on this game they need to arrange some kind of diminishing returns at WoW or immunity timer at Warhammer Online.

I always think that this game must be about WvW as its name, not about living events and pve. In this stuation better WvW is not about doing insanely lots of CC, it must be about All coordination and gameplay. At the moment this is not that important because if you have more stunning warriors you win.

sorry for language failures.

Wouldn’t you agree strength of hammer trains isn’t their CC? It’s their tankiness and immunity to CC.

aegnosis.8037:

So people thinks that endless Warrior Hammer F1 ability is kinda cool and okey. And never forget wvw is not about camps !

We are raiding guild almost every night running with 15-18 people. We are doing good fights but if other guilds has more warrior and no ability to play suprise!! they hammer bash you and win! Doesnt this happens to you? If they want to keep Small Scale guild raids on this game they need to arrange some kind of diminishing returns at WoW or immunity timer at Warhammer Online.

I always think that this game must be about WvW as its name, not about living events and pve. In this stuation better WvW is not about doing insanely lots of CC, it must be about All coordination and gameplay. At the moment this is not that important because if you have more stunning warriors you win.

sorry for language failures.

Like coordinated stability activation?

Im sorry but if your raiding guild gets rolled by hammer train stuns then you better start using TS. I always hear my commander say “stability” before we clash, and even if it runs out and i get stuned afterwards i pop my stun breaker and move on with commander.

So as you can see, not getting caught in cc train is all about coordinated play.

I stay in keep at the cannon and let others fight outside. So I can avoid CC.

Thats not that hard to deal with cc trains. Mesmers can help A LOT on that.

Only if they also put in DR for damage.

In this game, open fields fights have turned into:

1a. Who has the most stability
1b. Who has the most boon rip to remove enemy stability
2. Who has the bigger hammer/CC train

You are suppose to play Guardian Wars 2 with 33-50% of your team comp being Guardians, didn’t you know?

Helly.2597:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

And I do understand that you mention stability in the original post, but this is why Anet won’t put in a diminishing returns. Especially with how they now have boons prioritize party members. If you have 10-15 people of whom you have around 4-5 guardians you should have no stability/cc troubles. If you want to kill those larger groups you have to be willing to put in the extra effect to coordinate within your group of when people will use their stability skills.

This makes nonsense, 2/3 of the guild need to play guardian for other classes to be effective then ?(except warrior which has its own long duration stability) We are already using at least one guardian in parties but one guardian(or maybe mesmer) can only grant low-duration stability to party. This can only prevent the first impact, then ? This is like saying play as warrior-guardian to counter cc train. Yeah, death to other classes, play guardian-warrior only in every aspect of the game.

Zephyrus.9680:

This is a bad idea. Stability and also the fact that condition removal clears all stacks of a condition. Also stuns don’t stack duration.

Ironically, CC is how you STOP hammer trains and if anything it’s under powered against them.

It’s not about stacking of stun durations, it’s about reduction of singular stun durations(potency) respectively if you already got hit by stuns or other ccs in the same fight before.(While in combat stance)

I think, suggesting to use cc groups to counter cc groups is worse. What I’m trying to suggest here is, reduction of priorities of cc train based zergs in wvw to make more enjoyable and balanced fights with lower scale guilds or organised people. Using more ccs can’t help that. A low scale guild can’t have a “10 person cc-train” group, they already have low numbers. Also not every class have good access to stability and stun breakers, this obligates you to play only specific classes, which ruins the class balance in the game.

I just log out if I get chain cc’d. I don’t care about repair costs or anything like that – it’s just a waste of my time.

There needs to be DR AND immunity

Classes with on demand stability:
Warrior
Guardian
Ele
Necro
Engi (unsure, didn’t they just get one?)
Ranger
Mesmer
Thief

Why would we need cc immunity again?

Inb4 “why do I have to spec 30 points to get stability (necro) when guardian doesn’t?”

thief only has the dagger storm stability on a 180 cd. I dont think 3 mins is on demand…

eithinan.9841:

thief only has the dagger storm stability on a 180 cd. I dont think 3 mins is on demand…

Venoms with Lyssa runes. 5 seconds of stability every 40 seconds or less.

What group(even a pug zerg) doesn’t throw boon rip/corruption? Even without that, CC’s are far more accessible than stability/immunities.

gennyt.3428:

What group(even a pug zerg) doesn’t throw boon rip/corruption? Even without that, CC’s are far more accessible than stability/immunities.

Yes, this is one of the most important points. Although we have little or no access to stability, stability gets removed most of the time in zerg fights. Because cc train groups generally use boon converter or rippers. Yes, you can somehow counter this kind of zergs if you are doing large scale raids, but what about smaller scale raids with less people? Even if I was part of a large scale raid, I wouldn’t want to just play to spam or counter ccs, because this isn’t fun.
Zerg vs Zerg fights mustn’t depend that much to cc or counter cc. DR system can prevent over-spamming madness and force tactical use of ccs in the “right time”. Right tactics in the right time must win, not just continuously spamming ccs on the leader with large numbers of ppl.

Umut.5471:

This makes nonsense, 2/3 of the guild need to play guardian for other classes to be effective then ?(except warrior which has its own long duration stability) We are already using at least one guardian in parties but one guardian(or maybe mesmer) can only grant low-duration stability to party. This can only prevent the first impact, then ? This is like saying play as warrior-guardian to counter cc train. Yeah, death to other classes, play guardian-warrior only in every aspect of the game.

Guardians can give stability to 5 players every 18s with SYG, with the actual duration varying depending. And as I pointed out above you really only need 4-5 guardians within a 15 person group (which is at most 1/3 btw). This would give you a decent amount of stability within the group. If you are having stability issues even with this, I’d recommend taking another look at your group’s guardians setups and seeing if you can increase your stability output. Even if you don’t have stability it is still extremely easy to dodge these CC trains when they try and hammer stun into your group.

That comment about dodging the CC trains leads well into the scatter and free cast strategy. If you are having trouble as a guild group fighting these heavy CC trains, it might be good to check out the idea of death by 1000 cuts presented by a having a focus on backline players. (example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unikOUKCheE). While kitten lost the gvg, it is important to see how their movement and constant surrounding of the melee train gave the melee train (CC train) fits.

And I want to point out that my initial post was not a criticism of your play, if it was taken that way, well nothing I can do about that. I was pointing out that any diminishing returns implemented would be silly when you have a large number of ways to counter the CC currently, namely stability.

Umut.5471:

Zephyrus.9680:

This is a bad idea. Stability and also the fact that condition removal clears all stacks of a condition. Also stuns don’t stack duration.

Ironically, CC is how you STOP hammer trains and if anything it’s under powered against them.

It’s not about stacking of stun durations, it’s about reduction of singular stun durations(potency) respectively if you already got hit by stuns or other ccs in the same fight before.(While in combat stance)

I think, suggesting to use cc groups to counter cc groups is worse. What I’m trying to suggest here is, reduction of priorities of cc train based zergs in wvw to make more enjoyable and balanced fights with lower scale guilds or organised people. Using more ccs can’t help that. A low scale guild can’t have a “10 person cc-train” group, they already have low numbers. Also not every class have good access to stability and stun breakers, this obligates you to play only specific classes, which ruins the class balance in the game.

First, I assume what you mean by ‘CC train’ is hammer train which is predominantly warriors and guardians. You’re also misunderstanding that this is not a CC train, it’s an anti-cc train. Because a real ‘CC train’ (backline heavy) would not run as a ‘train’ or they would be eaten alive by a hammer train.

In short, what you’re suggesting would make the current meta SO much more strong. This is the opposite of balance.

CC immunity would be ridiculous. Everyone would roll full PVT gear and be running around with cc immunity. Oh wait this is already what they do…

Stability, stun break, teleport, and dodge roll… These things are here for a reason and if you can’t use them it’s not the game’s fault.

Tibstrike.2974:

eithinan.9841:

thief only has the dagger storm stability on a 180 cd. I dont think 3 mins is on demand…

Venoms with Lyssa runes. 5 seconds of stability every 40 seconds or less.

do you REALLY want to play venom share??? And the post said stability was on demand for all those classes. dedicating a 6 piece rune set immediately disqualifies itself from the “on demand” point

eithinan.9841:

Tibstrike.2974:

eithinan.9841:

thief only has the dagger storm stability on a 180 cd. I dont think 3 mins is on demand…

Venoms with Lyssa runes. 5 seconds of stability every 40 seconds or less.

do you REALLY want to play venom share??? And the post said stability was on demand for all those classes. dedicating a 6 piece rune set immediately disqualifies itself from the “on demand” point

If I’m getting killed over and over from conditions, should I come to the forums and demand that conditions be needed?

No, I will get laughed away. I have access to removal, others help me with removal, and runes/food to assist.

Same exact situation. If I am on my thief and i get stunned over and over (roaming or zergs) I’m going to be more careful about my stunbreaks/positioning, or learn how to properly use my teammates, or not put myself into the position.

Adapt or die. Dont dive a melee train if you can’t survive.

bad players making excuses as always

“Why should I have to build into the counter to counter?!”

smh

eithinan.9841:

Tibstrike.2974:

eithinan.9841:

thief only has the dagger storm stability on a 180 cd. I dont think 3 mins is on demand…

Venoms with Lyssa runes. 5 seconds of stability every 40 seconds or less.

do you REALLY want to play venom share??? And the post said stability was on demand for all those classes. dedicating a 6 piece rune set immediately disqualifies itself from the “on demand” point

I do. Cuz that’s what I felt contributed most to the zerg. When I’m roaming? Hell no.

if ya dont want to get cc ya should learn to dodge through it so it misses and use stability. Hammer warriors are getting nerfed anyways because of players crying about stun warriors simple fact of the matter is players need to learn how to fight if ya learnt how to fight maybe you would win and maybe not its all part of the game

All you need to do to beat a train is kite. Positioning wins the fight… sure a cc train makes it rough… but if a cc train doesn’t cc anything.. then the cc train doesn’t cc anything… you c?

You guys talking like there is only 1 warrior and hammer F1 ability’s cooldown is like 300 second. “use stability, break stun, dodge roll”? you talk like you can dodge roll like 50 times and again you talk like stability is 20 second undeletable ability.

please make sense. No one says remove all CCs from the game. But we say that it must be more balanced.

All these easy moders running 80% war/guard hammertrain setup claiming the endless boon & cc machine is skilled and balanced are really funny.

What is the alternative to running above mentioned setup (med/large scale)? Right, there is none. Seems balanced to me! Basically l2p means play hammer and stability, what classes have both again? Ah, warrior and guardian! Great balance, wonderful diversity and counters!

You could take 10 monkeys, build a hammertrain and they would crush a group of the 5 world`s best players running balanced setup without war and guard, simply because the sheer amount of CC can`t be kitet, controlled or dodged. In any other game I played the 5 top players would easily wipe the floor with the 10 monkeys, because of DR.

All of your “hey, just dodge” or “just pop stability” excuses can be translated to:“Please keep my carebear mode!”

The latest immobilize changes make the issue even more concerning. Sad state of the game.

in gw1 you cant be knocked down while you not got up from the previous KD. it made the stun locking harder, but a skilled player still can stun lock anybody in 1v1
(and i want body blocking back)

Moon.6371:

All these easy moders running 80% war/guard hammertrain setup claiming the endless boon & cc machine is skilled and balanced are really funny.

What is the alternative to running above mentioned setup (med/large scale)? Right, there is none. Seems balanced to me! Basically l2p means play hammer and stability, what classes have both again? Ah, warrior and guardian! Great balance, wonderful diversity and counters!

You could take 10 monkeys, build a hammertrain and they would crush a group of the 5 world`s best players running balanced setup without war and guard, simply because the sheer amount of CC can`t be kitet, controlled or dodged. In any other game I played the 5 top players would easily wipe the floor with the 10 monkeys, because of DR.

All of your “hey, just dodge” or “just pop stability” excuses can be translated to:“Please keep my carebear mode!”

The latest immobilize changes make the issue even more concerning. Sad state of the game.

This is the best explanation so for Thank you man.

PredatoR.5247:

bad players making excuses as always

“Why should I have to build into the counter to counter?!”

smh

yeah i agree, bad players and cc spammers like you must stop making excuses against a dr system. you know, dr system would be the end of cc spamming bad players. it would require tactical use of ccs and skill, not bot-like spamming like current meta. i see that cc spammers aren’t happy with my suggestion, it’s quite normal. they won’t be able to spam ccs for instant winning if dr system comes.

maybe a skilled 15 man group will kill their 40 man cc spamming raid with dr system, they can’t handle that. this is the main reason of opposition here. ask this to real dedicated wvw players in game, most of the players are not happy with current cc train meta. they can make a poll about it.

Umut.5471:

this is the main reason of opposition here. ask this to real dedicated wvw players in game, most of the players are not happy with current cc train meta. they can make a poll about it.

How would you define “dedicated wvw players” may I ask? If its close to someone who logs on every night of the week and plays wvw in a guild group format for around 3-4 hours while fighting groups of easily 60+, then you’ve just described the person you’re quoting.

I suggest you look back up at my second post in the thread as it shows almost a direct counter to your idea of a cc train and is quite effective.

@ Helly:

Dude, you disqualified yourself the moment you suggested you “only” need 5 guardians out of a 15 man group as a counter. Wow, … just wow. This is so crazy, I`m almost speechless. A wild guess, the rest of your 15 consists of warriors and necros?

Eight classes ingame, 1/3rd of your group consists of one class just to be able to not be cc´d endlessly? And you think that´s good? That`s the definition of class stacking and hence, totally screwed balance.

I`m laughing so hard right now about your desperate attempt to sound knowledgable, when in fact, you´re one of the deluded abusers not willing to let the easymode go away.

In a balanced game you would see equally successful 15 man groups consisting of engis, thiefs and rangers. Instead every wannabe gvg guild is relying on your formula of 50%-80% guards & warriors and feels like they reinvented the wheel.

Pathetic.

Helly.2597:

Umut.5471:

this is the main reason of opposition here. ask this to real dedicated wvw players in game, most of the players are not happy with current cc train meta. they can make a poll about it.

How would you define “dedicated wvw players” may I ask? If its close to someone who logs on every night of the week and plays wvw in a guild group format for around 3-4 hours while fighting groups of easily 60+, then you’ve just described the person you’re quoting.

I suggest you look back up at my second post in the thread as it shows almost a direct counter to your idea of a cc train and is quite effective.

yes, this describes the people i’m saying. they do wvw raids every night. what you suggest applies to large scale groups, in lower scale groups with 15-16man and 1 guard per party what you say doesn’t have any validity. Every guard gives stability to his own party(5 person), it doesn’t go to other parties cos of 5 person limit. and this stability has low duration and high cooldown to counter a large scale enemy group with at least 10-15 cc guys continuously using cc skills with low cooldowns. look from the aspect of a small scale raid fighting against more crowded raids.

and another problem here(if we surrender to current cc meta) is the need of more guardians to counter warriors. what is this, a warrior guardian game? we need warriors to stun spam enemy zerg, guardians to counter them. these suggestions can just make the class balance worse. if they add long stability and invulnerability to each class as utility(like warriors) then it may be ok, but still not a 100% solution like a dr system. dr system would make all classes useful at the same level, while not making some classes overly required. Currently a raid with 35% guards and 65% warriors is better than all types of raid setups.(offensive cc chain + cc/condi immunity) Other classes just reduce the efficiency if a warrior or guard is replaced with something else. This is because of the priority of ccs in wvw. Less prioritized ccs=more space for special abilities of each class.

CC isn’t a problem. Problem is AoE cap and warrior and guardians survivability.

I like how you explicitly state, “I wanted to provide a constructive feedback instead of just showing the negative point, thanks.”
When someone enters your thread and posts something that AGREES with your post about CC and doesn’t provide any sort of sustenance, you dont call them out on it nor quote them, then when someone enters you thread to say otherwise, you quote it with false statistics that you obviously made up on the spot, “most of the players are not happy with current cc train meta”, and FEED their toxicity, “bad players and cc spammers like you must stop making excuses against a dr system”.
And I definitely love the way you have already shut off the opinions of everyone that don’t agree with your opinion in wvw with, “ask this to real dedicated wvw players in game”. Way to HAUL in that “constructive feedback instead of just showing the negative point, thanks.”

If you want people to take your thread seriously and unbiasly, you need to show the initiative to be unbias towards the points other people are making as well.
This is a discussion forum, not a bandwagon forum for bias.
In regards to the quote, “Then it decreases to 50%-25% respectively for 2nd 3rd times, then you gain immunity against ccs for a duration in fight.” and “Some mmorpgs”, could you provide some examples of large mmos relative to GW2’s size that have this implemented, and then provide us with examples of every other mmorpg that is does exactly what GW2 is doing, please.
I think you are confusing what you believe to be as a way to build tenacity against chained crowd controlling abilities and MOST mmorpgs, as well as guild wars 2 actually do have this already implemented into the system, and this does not include the previously mentioned stability and stun break abilities.
Where is it you ask? Food, bowls of roasted lotus root and saffron bread.
You don’t want to use food to reduce tenacity duration issues you are having? Melandru runes for your armor?
If you combine the -40% stun food with -40% stun armor, only if you want to, I mean you don’t have to, tell me exactly how this system still needs to implement this, “diminishing returns” which I haven’t even seen in mmorpgs.
Don’t get me wrong though, its definitely a fabulous idea for small group’s or even solo players, but you know what, wvw stands for world vs. world vs. world (aka. server vs. server vs. server) which are quite numerous in numbers and if you wanted to play in small groups, anet has even answered your problems directly on the release date of this game and its called sPvP.

@ Junkpile:

Yeah, 20+ seconds immobilize is totally fine. Playing asuraball unintendedly til death is also very fun and no problem.

Or did I fall into your trap?

Moon.6371:

@ Junkpile:

Yeah, 20+ seconds immobilize is totally fine

Haven’t happen to me ever in real fight because enemy doesn’t really have time to try kill one player when there is +40 other targets. Actually cc nerf would just make melee trains stronger.

Immobilize effects smaller scale a lot more, id say even 20vs20 will suffer. How would a cc nerf make meleetrains any stronger, that`s just ... not true. Consider 15 (Melee cc) vs 10 (Balanced, 1 guard, 1 warrior): Now, finally, the focused section of the already outmanned group would actually be able to fight, instead of dodge, dodge, stunbreak into root, root, stun, stun, daze, die....

As much as I like your idea, this is not Rift.

What will stability be good for?
How are interrupt builds ever gonna be useful with this (without perplexity runes)?
What if you get ’’stunned’’, but you immune it while having stability on? Will that also count for the amount of stuns you get?
What timer should the stun immune be?
What is the time stamp between 2 stuns at maximum to make it trigger?

So many things you need to think of before implementing this idea. Just seems a bit much, especially seeing how less arenanet is working about this game.

King Amadaeus.8619:

In this game, open fields fights have turned into:

1a. Who has the most stability
1b. Who has the most boon rip to remove enemy stability
2. Who has the bigger hammer/CC train

Let me fill that up for you:
3. Who has the best timing
4. Which raid got the best movement
5. Who has the highest damage potential due a flank while surviving too.

So pretty much everything you can think of. CC is not enough to kill people, you also need damage, movement and timing/skill rotations.

Helly.2597:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

And I do understand that you mention stability in the original post, but this is why Anet won’t put in a diminishing returns. Especially with how they now have boons prioritize party members. If you have 10-15 people of whom you have around 4-5 guardians you should have no stability/cc troubles. If you want to kill those larger groups you have to be willing to put in the extra effect to coordinate within your group of when people will use their stability skills.

Some CC abilities seem to ignore stability. Besides, you still have the endless immobilize aswell…

to whoever say that this melee train are 80% Guardian and warrior, there is guild that run like that, they usually get wiped everytime from a more balance guild.

Has Blackdevil said the Best timing, the Best movement are extremly important.
You can easily dodge a melee train and flank them, range pressure it’s the best you can do to defeat a melee train.

Yes some class are extreme weak in a guild raid but usually the only class that it’s that weak to be consider unviable it’s ranger.

If you’re a roamer and you get zerged time after time it’s a problem of the Map it’s self not that Melee train it’s unbalance.

Combat awereness it’s extremly important, many people simple don’t have that so they get crushed, time after time.

You can’t analayse thing like this if you don’t know the Meta of Good wvw guild, and most post here have simple no clue, nothing wrong with that, but many here are talking without understanding the game, at that level, it’s not superior or inferior it’s simple something that you didn’t experience.

Moon.6371:

@ Helly:

Dude, you disqualified yourself the moment you suggested you “only” need 5 guardians out of a 15 man group as a counter. Wow, … just wow. This is so crazy, I`m almost speechless. A wild guess, the rest of your 15 consists of warriors and necros?

Eight classes ingame, 1/3rd of your group consists of one class just to be able to not be cc´d endlessly? And you think that´s good? That`s the definition of class stacking and hence, totally screwed balance.

I`m laughing so hard right now about your desperate attempt to sound knowledgable, when in fact, you´re one of the deluded abusers not willing to let the easymode go away.

In a balanced game you would see equally successful 15 man groups consisting of engis, thiefs and rangers. Instead every wannabe gvg guild is relying on your formula of 50%-80% guards & warriors and feels like they reinvented the wheel.

Pathetic.

The balance is between heavy classes and light peripheral classes. So yes, you want to aim for half half. Unfortunately, the medium classes just don’t bring much to the table that can’t be accomplished better by another class. Nerfing cc won’t change this situation and will in fact, only make running heavy tanky classes even more viable and even harder to kill.

Nerfing cc also wont make ANY difference to the guardian ward interrupts, which is what screws up people when they get trapped in an AoE bomb. You need stability to escape out of the wards, and the wards don’t stun you or even give you conditions, they simply prevent you from running past them. Hammer warrior stuns are easy to get out of – any stun breaker will break it and you don’t even need stability.

So no, nerfing cc is not the solution to the cc train, and there is in fact, no easy solution to fix this problem without majorly breaking some part of the game.

Then I will want DR of posts for forum warriors as well.

so you got wiped by more organised / skilled zerg than you had? nerf everything so nobody dies or kills!!! pro tip : use dodge, manage your cooldowns, do proper movement.
this whole " who was more warriors wins" is a joke and not true. and use proper builds gear not some pve full berserker ones… i can tell whats wrong in some complaining people as i have fought their guilds.

on short : what i cannot beat is op. ^^

Umut.5471:

This makes nonsense, 2/3 of the guild need to play guardian for other classes to be effective then ?(except warrior which has its own long duration stability) We are already using at least one guardian in parties but one guardian(or maybe mesmer) can only grant low-duration stability to party. This can only prevent the first impact, then ? This is like saying play as warrior-guardian to counter cc train. Yeah, death to other classes, play guardian-warrior only in every aspect of the game.

Organise your parties. Do not put eles/mesmers/thiefs/etc in a party with a guard. This classes don’t need Stability, they should avoid CC with good positioning. Positioning is the most important thing for a good backline. And all these proffesions have enough stunbreakers if they are fokussed by the CC-Train of the enemy.
Then put 2 guards in every party with the proffesions which need stability.

@ Covis:

Poor try, even most “frontliner”`s agree, that it is not really the most challenging task to do what they do for how effective it is. Yeah, mark the leader and call it coordinated elite team…seriously?

There is a good reason for DR in balanced environment as soon as numbers of participants are going up.

Believe it or not, I`m chain immobilizing the hell out of my opponents right now and haven`t lost an equal group engagement numberswise in ages. Nonetheless, do I think this cc spam and overflow is balanced, fun or needed? No!

Try again.

yeah bring spvp into wvw…