Guild Wars 2

Sirendor.1394:

gladiator.5367:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Omne.4603:

Yaro.3251:

Omne.4603:

I get what your saying about the process to becoming a veteran in WvW, but you can’t make those kinds of assumptions about what he’s saying.

I’m not sure which assumptions do you mean. Care to elaborate?

Omne.4603:

The responses seem typical so far, i’m wrong because of insert some subjective reasoning here. All the while no one seems to have a serious response, criticism or suggestion to my initial post. Pretty disappointing, but I guess this is to be expected.

It would help if you’d explain what is subjective and why exactly you are dismissing comments coming from WvWers and calling them not serious.

Why are you getting so defensive?

Pot meet kettle.

How has OP been defensive? He’s just asking for a coherent, reasonable, objective argument against his post. I think he’s entitled to it.

… the OP said “Why are you getting so defensive?” because he doesn’t have any arguments anymore. Open your eyes.

They are open, else I couldn’t read this thread.

Anet has already introduced something :

- Ascended, for a pve player is way easier to get, so you can have a stat advantage.
- Guard leech and applied fortitude, those takes time and a lot of farm.
- Siege bunker.

Are you sure you want more ?

My suggestion :

Create a new “wvw” map, with only 1 side playable, the other 2 are mobs, so you can have your easy epic fights. Problem solved

People I feel are really over reacting to these suggestions, its not as though players would be getting these skills for free, I envision them costing a total of 15-30 skill points for the tree. Which IMO is alot for casuals in WvW. As far as me explaining my issues with the responses thus far its simple, I’m not seeing anyone address the issue itself. The Wxp abilties are one thing but the issue of how newer players not just pvers feel is still going to be a huge problem. Personally i’d like to hear anyone with good points about that. Just seems that this is digressing into personal attacks at this point however.

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

Instant rally on 180 second cooldown? Who do you think that benefits more, the newbie who gets downed every 10 seconds, or the veteran who goes down once every 5 minutes?

I totally understand the whole argument behind everyone being expected to take the same hard path to greatness. However, there is one thing you guys have not taken into account: WvW is an ever-growing gamestyle. Here is what I mean:

In PvE, there is a set amount of difficulty, and people need to learn how to overcome it. Whether through trial and error, or through allies and guides, PvE challenges are defeated in standard fashion. But when it comes to WvW, you need to realize that it is always changing, and some players have had over a year to adapt to this environment. And now new players are expected to deal with this vast amount of experience? Come on! It’s one thing to learn that falling off cliffs will kill you, but when there are enemies with a year of experience that know 100 different ways to knock you off that cliff, that mountain is going to be MUCH harder to climb (and subsequently fall off).

We have so many serious players and guilds who make it their mission to stomp newbies. At least give the new players something that makes them feel not completely helpless.

We need to remember that GW2 is above all a casual MMO. It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. Downed state mastery, while maybe not the perfect idea, is definitely a step in the right direction. We need something for new players to look at and say “hey, they had me in mind when they made this, perhaps I will actually enjoy this activity.”

I think a lot of people in this thread got involved in WvW near the start, when everyone was on the same playing field. But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.

And here we have a whole new set of achievements obviously designed to encourage new WvW players, but we have no system to accommodate them. How is a new guy going to be able to take Stonemist when he can’t even jump out of his keep without dying from fall damage? Seriously. I know getting out of that red keep in EB can be a hassle. You want to get there ASAP so you don’t miss credit, and end up killing yourself because you are in such a rush. Then you end up missing the cap and you’re forced to ram your face on the wall for another 2 hours because your server can’t field enough people to take a decent shot at the castle.

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

I was saying basically same thing earlier but it was glossed over for some reason. Or dismissed as not serious.

What I could condense however is that OP is concerned with too steep of learning curve for complete beginners which is partially true. You can’t get applied fortitude and guard leech soon so it leaves you quite behind those veterans even in terms of stats. Unfortunately, this cannot be solved by introducing yet another Wexp line, especially the one which would shift WvW balance so much as proposed by OP.

Curo.2483:

I totally understand the whole argument behind everyone being expected to take the same hard path to greatness. However, there is one thing you guys have not taken into account: WvW is an ever-growing gamestyle. Here is what I mean:

In PvE, there is a set amount of difficulty, and people need to learn how to overcome it. Whether through trial and error, or through allies and guides, PvE challenges are defeated in standard fashion. But when it comes to WvW, you need to realize that it is always changing, and some players have had over a year to adapt to this environment. And now new players are expected to deal with this vast amount of experience? Come on! It’s one thing to learn that falling off cliffs will kill you, but when there are enemies with a year of experience that know 100 different ways to knock you off that cliff, that mountain is going to be MUCH harder to climb (and subsequently fall off).

We have so many serious players and guilds who make it their mission to stomp newbies. At least give the new players something that makes them feel not completely helpless.

We need to remember that GW2 is above all a casual MMO. It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. Downed state mastery, while maybe not the perfect idea, is definitely a step in the right direction. We need something for new players to look at and say “hey, they had me in mind when they made this, perhaps I will actually enjoy this activity.”

I think a lot of people in this thread got involved in WvW near the start, when everyone was on the same playing field. But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.

And here we have a whole new set of achievements obviously designed to encourage new WvW players, but we have no system to accommodate them. How is a new guy going to be able to take Stonemist when he can’t even jump out of his keep without dying from fall damage? Seriously. I know getting out of that red keep in EB can be a hassle. You want to get there ASAP so you don’t miss credit, and end up killing yourself because you are in such a rush. Then you end up missing the cap and you’re forced to ram your face on the wall for another 2 hours because your server can’t field enough people to take a decent shot at the castle.

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Honestly, well said man. Well said.

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc. and to make them feel a part of the community.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

I don’t understand why players would be so opposed to introducing a game mechanic that could help bring non-traditional players into World vs World vs World. Does helping a new player threaten the sense of superiority you get from “pwning a noob”?

I don’t know if this is the right answer but I like the direction he’s going. As a mesmer, I don’t have a lot of escapability and often find myself getting snared at the back of the zerg and finished before anyone can get back to me. Even the extra health would help increase my chances of survival and lower my repair costs.

Instead of hyperbolizing examples to make the original idea sound ridiculous, how about try and understand the problem that the OP is trying to address and offer constructive feedback.

I, for one, like it!

Curo.2483:

I totally understand the whole argument behind everyone being expected to take the same hard path to greatness. However, there is one thing you guys have not taken into account: WvW is an ever-growing gamestyle. Here is what I mean:

In PvE, there is a set amount of difficulty, and people need to learn how to overcome it. Whether through trial and error, or through allies and guides, PvE challenges are defeated in standard fashion. But when it comes to WvW, you need to realize that it is always changing, and some players have had over a year to adapt to this environment. And now new players are expected to deal with this vast amount of experience? Come on! It’s one thing to learn that falling off cliffs will kill you, but when there are enemies with a year of experience that know 100 different ways to knock you off that cliff, that mountain is going to be MUCH harder to climb (and subsequently fall off).

We have so many serious players and guilds who make it their mission to stomp newbies. At least give the new players something that makes them feel not completely helpless.

We need to remember that GW2 is above all a casual MMO. It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. Downed state mastery, while maybe not the perfect idea, is definitely a step in the right direction. We need something for new players to look at and say “hey, they had me in mind when they made this, perhaps I will actually enjoy this activity.”

I think a lot of people in this thread got involved in WvW near the start, when everyone was on the same playing field. But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.

And here we have a whole new set of achievements obviously designed to encourage new WvW players, but we have no system to accommodate them. How is a new guy going to be able to take Stonemist when he can’t even jump out of his keep without dying from fall damage? Seriously. I know getting out of that red keep in EB can be a hassle. You want to get there ASAP so you don’t miss credit, and end up killing yourself because you are in such a rush. Then you end up missing the cap and you’re forced to ram your face on the wall for another 2 hours because your server can’t field enough people to take a decent shot at the castle.

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Your post really speaks to me. When I was starting out, I tried wvw so many times and failed so hard. I really do love pvp, but I bought GW2 because I wanted to be a little more causal in my gameplay, especially that I work two jobs now and dont’ have the playtime I once had. I tried to wvw so many times initially only to quit several times just because of frustration. I could not figure out how to jump off that cliff without dieing. It took me a while, but I figured it out. I agree that some training wheels need to be in place so that people won’t get frustrated and just quit…and quit..and quit. More newb friendliness in WvW means a higher population of people, more coverage, more even fights. Everyone wins!

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

I agree. But there are a lot of guilds who are willing to take people under their wings for WvW and show them something else than blobbing. You just need to look for them.

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

well, we all had to learn one way or another. of course, to add on to that, i think it’s more up to the WvW vets to help out. teach the new-comers, certain guilds or groups of people who feel convicted can run training programs. make sure your new WvW-ers get onto TS, Voip. don’t hold their hands, but help lead the way.

those who WvW often shouldn’t right off the bat expet all PvE-ers to be bad. they can learn and will grow and adapt.

on the other hand though, PvE-ers or new WvW-ers ought to have the right midnset and attitude coming to WvW as well. they need to be willing to learn.

it’s all mutual. don’t think the game needs special handicaps or mechanics as such to help bring more people in.

Omne.4603:

Curo.2483:

It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. D
…

But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.
…

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.
…

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Honestly, well said man. Well said.

I agree that was well said. The problem however is that you have a huge conflict here if you introduce something that gives rookies advantage over veterans specifically in PvP. You just cannot do that if you want to have fair balanced PvP environment. Then again, there’s so much to do on WvW that does not involve diving head first into enemy zergs.

I don’t mind at all giving new players wheels as long as it does not affect regular WvW players. Which would be pretty hard to come up with.

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

Yeah it’s all good, but you seem to ignore the extent to which your proposed Wexp line will change WvW dynamics. The good way to access something is to ask a question “What can go wrong with this?” and try to answer it as if you are prosecutor.

gladiator.5367:

Curo.2483:

- snip -

Your post really speaks to me. When I was starting out, I tried wvw so many times and failed so hard. I really do love pvp, but I bought GW2 because I wanted to be a little more causal in my gameplay, especially that I work two jobs now and dont’ have the playtime I once had. I tried to wvw so many times initially only to quit several times just because of frustration. I could not figure out how to jump off that cliff without dieing. It took me a while, but I figured it out. I agree that some training wheels need to be in place so that people won’t get frustrated and just quit…and quit..and quit. More newb friendliness in WvW means a higher population of people, more coverage, more even fights. Everyone wins!

My suggestion: find a group of friends who know what they’re doing and tag along with them. In the beginning you don’t have to go doing spectacular kills or anything and you shouldn’t expect to either. I think for the first 3 months I played WvW (from start of the game till around October-November), I always just ran along with a small group of people and the amount of things I learned there is amazing and I still regularly use them.

You don’t want to be a top player in WvW from the first day and that’s totally impossible aswell. I think I didn’t kill any player single-handedly the first month and maybe killed a few the next months. At this moment, I kill whoever I want, and I take on 2v1 or 3v1 regularly. When in a group it’s often 5 v 10 or more.

The main thing you have to keep in mind is that you can’t expect to be a top player from day one, but if you want to become one, you have to show some respect toward players who are better and more experienced AND you have to learn from them, by asking questions and by running with them.

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Yaro.3251:

Omne.4603:

Curo.2483:

It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. D
…

But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.
…

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.
…

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Honestly, well said man. Well said.

I agree that was well said. The problem however is that you have a huge conflict here if you introduce something that gives rookies advantage over veterans specifically in PvP. You just cannot do that if you want to have fair balanced PvP environment. Then again, there’s so much to do on WvW that does not involve diving head first into enemy zergs.

I don’t mind at all giving new players wheels as long as it does not affect regular WvW players. Which would be pretty hard to come up with.

Please reread what is being said, I am not nor is anyone else saying to limit these changes to new players. This is not about tangible advantage so much as motivation/enablement. People need to wake up and realize the benefits this could produce for us in terms of providing even matchups with whole server wvw populations being renewed.

Curo.2483:

I totally understand the whole argument behind everyone being expected to take the same hard path to greatness. However, there is one thing you guys have not taken into account: WvW is an ever-growing gamestyle. Here is what I mean:

In PvE, there is a set amount of difficulty, and people need to learn how to overcome it. Whether through trial and error, or through allies and guides, PvE challenges are defeated in standard fashion. But when it comes to WvW, you need to realize that it is always changing, and some players have had over a year to adapt to this environment. And now new players are expected to deal with this vast amount of experience? Come on! It’s one thing to learn that falling off cliffs will kill you, but when there are enemies with a year of experience that know 100 different ways to knock you off that cliff, that mountain is going to be MUCH harder to climb (and subsequently fall off).

We have so many serious players and guilds who make it their mission to stomp newbies. At least give the new players something that makes them feel not completely helpless.

We need to remember that GW2 is above all a casual MMO. It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. Downed state mastery, while maybe not the perfect idea, is definitely a step in the right direction. We need something for new players to look at and say “hey, they had me in mind when they made this, perhaps I will actually enjoy this activity.”

I think a lot of people in this thread got involved in WvW near the start, when everyone was on the same playing field. But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.

And here we have a whole new set of achievements obviously designed to encourage new WvW players, but we have no system to accommodate them. How is a new guy going to be able to take Stonemist when he can’t even jump out of his keep without dying from fall damage? Seriously. I know getting out of that red keep in EB can be a hassle. You want to get there ASAP so you don’t miss credit, and end up killing yourself because you are in such a rush. Then you end up missing the cap and you’re forced to ram your face on the wall for another 2 hours because your server can’t field enough people to take a decent shot at the castle.

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Agreed, i have been following this post for a while now. I have a hard life, four small children, a job that barely gets us by. PvE was my out for a long time but it just did not fill some urges I have built up inside. When I first decided to try WvW out I did what everyone says, read posts, watch videos, spend gold (that I worked so hard for) on new gear. I practice, put so much effort in, and I see a post on something that could benefit everyone and agree with it. People hate on us “PvE noobs” but we are what drives new content and what helps progress the game. All we need is some more Wxp trait lines. Maybe one that gives WvW members a speed buff that switches to only underwater once you hit a certain rank.

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Most of the time the organised guilds are <20 and they face 2 or 3 times their numbers of unorganised players with success. This is normal, that’s what they trained for.

Jrown.2049:

Curo.2483:

I totally understand the whole argument behind everyone being expected to take the same hard path to greatness. However, there is one thing you guys have not taken into account: WvW is an ever-growing gamestyle. Here is what I mean:

In PvE, there is a set amount of difficulty, and people need to learn how to overcome it. Whether through trial and error, or through allies and guides, PvE challenges are defeated in standard fashion. But when it comes to WvW, you need to realize that it is always changing, and some players have had over a year to adapt to this environment. And now new players are expected to deal with this vast amount of experience? Come on! It’s one thing to learn that falling off cliffs will kill you, but when there are enemies with a year of experience that know 100 different ways to knock you off that cliff, that mountain is going to be MUCH harder to climb (and subsequently fall off).

We have so many serious players and guilds who make it their mission to stomp newbies. At least give the new players something that makes them feel not completely helpless.

We need to remember that GW2 is above all a casual MMO. It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. Downed state mastery, while maybe not the perfect idea, is definitely a step in the right direction. We need something for new players to look at and say “hey, they had me in mind when they made this, perhaps I will actually enjoy this activity.”

I think a lot of people in this thread got involved in WvW near the start, when everyone was on the same playing field. But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.

And here we have a whole new set of achievements obviously designed to encourage new WvW players, but we have no system to accommodate them. How is a new guy going to be able to take Stonemist when he can’t even jump out of his keep without dying from fall damage? Seriously. I know getting out of that red keep in EB can be a hassle. You want to get there ASAP so you don’t miss credit, and end up killing yourself because you are in such a rush. Then you end up missing the cap and you’re forced to ram your face on the wall for another 2 hours because your server can’t field enough people to take a decent shot at the castle.

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Agreed, i have been following this post for a while now. I have a hard life, four small children, a job that barely gets us by. PvE was my out for a long time but it just did not fill some urges I have built up inside. When I first decided to try WvW out I did what everyone says, read posts, watch videos, spend gold (that I worked so hard for) on new gear. I practice, put so much effort in, and I see a post on something that could benefit everyone and agree with it. People hate on us “PvE noobs” but we are what drives new content and what helps progress the game. All we need is some more Wxp trait lines. Maybe one that gives WvW members a speed buff that switches to only underwater once you hit a certain rank.

I’m really sorry to hear that man. I hope things improve for you. Please keep in mind that not everyone has the same attitudes.

Sirendor.1394:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Most of the time the organised guilds are <20 and they face 2 or 3 times their numbers of unorganised players with success. This is normal, that’s what they trained for.

You don’t have to tell me that.

What is being suggested here would allow them to take on 5 or 6 times their numbers, instead of 2 or 3.

Omne.4603:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

As a self proclaimed Godd of PvE, this ability might get me to play more WvW. My only comment would have to be on level 5 I don’t think we need the swiftness so much as I do like to stay around and fight. But a stability buff would give me a chance at staying in the fight and not being knocked around.

Omne.4603:

Yaro.3251:

Omne.4603:

Curo.2483:

It’s understandable that hardcore players would have an advantage, but we shouldn’t discourage casuals from enjoying the content just because someone else plays more than them. D
…

But now, that playing field is so well established that new players are going to end up feeling like they are on the bleachers, just watching, and occasionally getting hit in the face with a ball. You simply cannot think that anyone would willingly want to pit themselves up against such odds without some sort of helmet.
…

Ok so maybe I’m taking this a little personally now, but seriously give the new guys some kind of training wheels. You can even remove those wheels once they hit a high enough rank.
…

And one final thought, another proposition. How about we have some sort of “elitist mastery” (although we won’t call it that) that handicaps a more experienced player in order to receive better rewards? If we’re going to do something like this for the newbs, we’ve got to throw the pros a bone as well!

Honestly, well said man. Well said.

I agree that was well said. The problem however is that you have a huge conflict here if you introduce something that gives rookies advantage over veterans specifically in PvP. You just cannot do that if you want to have fair balanced PvP environment. Then again, there’s so much to do on WvW that does not involve diving head first into enemy zergs.

I don’t mind at all giving new players wheels as long as it does not affect regular WvW players. Which would be pretty hard to come up with.

Please reread what is being said, I am not nor is anyone else saying to limit these changes to new players. This is not about tangible advantage so much as motivation/enablement. People need to wake up and realize the benefits this could produce for us in terms of providing even matchups with whole server wvw populations being renewed.

I was answering more to what Curo said. Ie giving rookies training wheels.

Bones.8463:

Omne.4603:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

As a self proclaimed Godd of PvE, this ability might get me to play more WvW. My only comment would have to be on level 5 I don’t think we need the swiftness so much as I do like to stay around and fight. But a stability buff would give me a chance at staying in the fight and not being knocked around.

Do not underestimate swiftness in combat. This game’s motto is “if you stand still, you are dead”. Battles are exceptionally dynamic so ability to navigate the field faster is invaluable.

Do even somebody realize taht this Downed state buff will just make battles more time consuming and booring?
Reduce CD by 70% means guardian bubble very often. More HP? means that if i finally get you down i wont be able to kill you. That will not help feeling of a battle/fight.
2 seconds invulnerable? What a joke.
Instant rally? What? Why?

Only thing that this so called “new wvw player solution” will have that 2 pve players wont be able to kill any of the “veteran” wvw player. Because all wvw players now would have these levels much faster than new wvw guys.

This would now help anything.

You want to help new wvw players? Here are my points:
1)commander overhaul, we need more than blue dorito, so new wvw players will be better informed about situation on battlefield. And I mean like see your squad on map, quad window like party windows and more.

2) bigger parties, like 10 man at least

and finally third and the most important

3)new WvW player must to be interested in wvw. Imagine 2 guys new in wvw. One will join borderland and run somewhere. He will die almost instantly. He does not read chat, he does not come to TS, he dont even have a guild.
Now imagine second guys, who will join a guild where others have some experience with wvw. We will come to wvw in a party, he will read chat, he will come to TS and instead of talking he will just listen for a while.

The first guy will NEVER be a “wvw veteran” because he is not interested in wvw. He is just solo guys who thinks that after killing Shatterer he is the best. And that he can kill everybody, even solo camp for the first time he get to some camp.
Second guy will became “wvw veteran” very quickly and because of COOPERATION and INTERESTMENT in wvw.

No buff or something wont help that first guys to be better or to kill 50 man blob by himself.

main point is: not buffing pointless features but encouraging of “be a part of wvw,community,guild,party” feeling will only help new wvw guys.

One way to level the playing field would be to remove the fact that rangers still can get back up from a dead pet. Once the pet is dead I think it shouldn’t be able to rez the player unless it is alive and targetable. If the pet is dead it should be useless.

That’s the wrong direction. Rather than buff down state to make it even stronger than ‘up’ state, they should remove rally from the game entirely. Or limit rally to 1 player. That way the rally bait doesn’t penalize the rest of their team when they go down all the time.

I think I need to put more than the 2 cents here I put in before

I joined WvW 2 weeks before leagues started (so about 3 weeks ago). Before that, I had taken about 10 months break from GW2. I went into WvW not knowing what it was about, and getting my kitten handed to me every time our zerg met the enemy zerg. At the time, my gear was almost completely full zerker, and I wasn’t even level 80. I ended up completely changing my traits from mainly power to mainly vitality and toughness before learning what gear to get.

Guess what? I now have full PVT gear (cost me less than 30 gold for runes)and learned to use different trait builds for different circumstances (i.e. havoc/zerg/turtling). It’s NOT hard to learn. There doesn’t need to be some massive buff to the downed state because someone doesn’t want to build tankier. That suggestion to the buffed state would literally make me invincible, since I’d be able to res myself after I mistform out of the fight at any point. It would also mean spiking people that can’t exit out of the fight in their downed state that much more important because of bloodlust (and make any real buff to the downed state completely and utterly useless).

It doesn’t take long to learn the basics of WvW. It takes maybe 1 or 2 times dying from jumping off a cliff to get fall damage reduction in your traits. You should be thinking of building tankier after dying 4 or 5 times in zerg fights and watching everyone else around you live on.

Learn WvW builds just as you learnt your PvE builds. It doesn’t take long. This suggestion that new PvE players entering WvW should get some kind of buff is just ridiculous and stupid. Shame on yourself for even thinking of it. WvW players don’t get it easy when we’re running fractals or dungeons, why should PvE players get it easy when they’re in WvW?

I like the intent OP, but no. This would be exploited to hell by wvw guilds.

I’m sorry but are these suggestions for real??

Yeah..no, if you come to realm with PvP activities and can’t handle dying then march back through that Asura gate quick, fast and in a hurry. All these suggestions are focused on one thing giving a player training wheels because they’re afraid of dying. Why should someone get an advantage because they don’t know what the kitten they’re doing? They need to take their lumps like everyone before them and learn from mistakes.

Omne.4603:

I’m quite serious, about what i’ve posted. If others have suggestions they feel that are better i’d like to hear their ideas also.

I feel like the issue of PvE being hard for veteran WvW’ers is an issue that needs to be noticed. There have been times where the people I can rely on and run with in WvW can’t handle themselves in a basic dungeon run of CoE. This could easily be fixed by the devs, all they need to do is care for the people playing their game.

My suggestion for the solution of this problem is simple. Make a “General Mastery” trait for WvW’ers, and any other players having issues with their gameplay that applies to all severs of the game. To validate this “buff” it would take time and effort to earn these ranks, PvE’ers would have to come to WvW for the buffs and WvW’ers would have to pull points from other key lines to finish this.

Tier 1: Make attack tips pop up on screen when the enemy is preparing an attack. (IE: Alpha uses one of elemental AoE attacks in CoE – “The room’s temperature seems to fluctuate violently….”) [5 ranks]

Tier 2: When an ally places a target, it puts their class symbol over the targets head. When allies attack that target, they gain Fury for 3 seconds. Same class allies gain Protection for 3 seconds. This has a 15 second cooldown per player. [15 ranks]

Tier 3: When Defiance is lost on a target from your attack, all allies nearby gain Stability for 5 seconds. Range: 300. [30 ranks]

Tier 4: When you are downed, allies that come to revive you gain Protection for 3 seconds every 10 seconds. When you rally, gain Vigor for 5 seconds. [40 ranks]

Tier 5: Armor repair costs are halved. [60 ranks]

Omne.4603:

In light of the inaugural World versus World season, a troubling issue has come to my, and others’, attention. Namely, a large influx of players, who normally participate in non-WvW game activities and types, are struggling to enjoy the gameplay which many of us have had several months to learn and master. Perhaps the greatest issue which interferes with these players’ enjoyment of WvW is the current meta of high-player count “zergs” (also known as “blobs”) which dominate combat. With this in mind, many players who are not prepared for the state of gameplay find themselves in the downed state quite frequently, without much of a chance to rejoin the large-scale battle that is WvW.
Quite frankly, if something is not done to help these players, the state of WvW will be placed in jeopardy – the developers cannot neglect these players if they expect long-term growth and stability.

Now, with this problem outlined, I now bring a potential solution to discussion: Downed State Mastery

The intention of this WvW Ability Mastery Tree is to balance the current disparity present in WvW for newcomers, both PvE veterans and under-leveled players alike. In other words, this line of abilities seeks to strengthen these players’ chances to stay in the fight!

Below are my preliminary ability suggestions:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

Trying to fix zerg combat you are ruining small scale combat and 1 vs 1. And making it impossible for 1 or 2 newcomers to ever beat a vet.

The only way to learn in WvW is to have that long run back to the fight after defeat to think about what you just did, it’s WvW’s equivalent of the naughty step. I cannot tell you how annoyed I have been with myself because I made a mistake in a fight that got me downed, and guess what? you don’t make the same mistake twice!!

Omne.4603:

In light of the inaugural World versus World season, a troubling issue has come to my, and others’, attention. Namely, a large influx of players, who normally participate in non-WvW game activities and types, are struggling to enjoy the gameplay which many of us have had several months to learn and master. Perhaps the greatest issue which interferes with these players’ enjoyment of WvW is the current meta of high-player count “zergs” (also known as “blobs”) which dominate combat. With this in mind, many players who are not prepared for the state of gameplay find themselves in the downed state quite frequently, without much of a chance to rejoin the large-scale battle that is WvW.
Quite frankly, if something is not done to help these players, the state of WvW will be placed in jeopardy – the developers cannot neglect these players if they expect long-term growth and stability.

Now, with this problem outlined, I now bring a potential solution to discussion: Downed State Mastery

The intention of this WvW Ability Mastery Tree is to balance the current disparity present in WvW for newcomers, both PvE veterans and under-leveled players alike. In other words, this line of abilities seeks to strengthen these players’ chances to stay in the fight!

Below are my preliminary ability suggestions:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

I wish you would do some basic cause and effect critical thinking before you post buffs that would be must haves because they are completely overpowered.

Your level 1 buff: Makes it unviable to dps a downed player in small fights, you now must stomp. There are many times like when were fighting glass thieves or mesmers where it is better to drop dps on them because of their down state abilities make them hard to get a stomp off.
Level 2: Are you serious? We can rename this to thief and mesmer will never die ever because he can keep restealthing and teleporting over and over again without ever coming out of stealth. Use BASIC critical thinking. Ask yourself what this changes. Combine this with the Level 1 terrible idea you put down and realize that this change will make it impossible to kill mesmers or thieves in downstate. In the case of mesmers they will be able to spam out 3 powerful downstate clones quickly while remaining unkillable.
Level 3: WAT! so every time you get hit, once per second a condi stack moves to an enemy? Are you serious? Make it impossible to run a condition build in wvw without conditions bouncing back to you. Terrible idea.
Level 4: This one is ok, but you are already invulnerable for 1 second…
Level 5: WAT. Kill small scale combat again please.

tl;dr: this is a bunch of absolutely terrible ideas. This thread is full of terrible ideas and I hope the devs will never implement them. Just a little critical thinking and you can find out how bad these will be for WvW.

I think mechanically what could be done to make it more friendly is reduce the extremeness that comes with some builds.

People say skills win blah blah blah but let’s face it, there are bunker builds that can’t get killed my a ton of builds, let alone scaled up characters. Food buffs are crazy, they only push builds to extremes (super glass, super tank, super condi resistant, super DPS). The WXP guard buffs don’t help.

I feel like buffin the downed state just admits to the idea that the live skill play is dysfunctional and someone who isn’t geared for WvW should be playing an alternative thing instead. (70% cooldown on downed skills is too crazy, could you ever spike a thief?)

I absolutely agree helping people integrate into WvW (any PvP activity is intimidating.. I find PvP intimidating myself even though I’ve done it on many games for thousands of hours) is crucial. What I’d like to do is maybe help people access these tools ingame. Maybe there can be a button you press ingame to get to your server’s voice chat or forums! We’ve been advertisin that stuff on our server for months but still lots of people don’t know. People could just vote on what the site is for each server and those homed on that server would instantly have the address to it (verification to secure areas would still be handled the same). That’s one super easy step: just give people links to the communities! Help them connect with each other.

I feel it’s pretty hard to reach out to people outside your guild on a server right now.

My guild (a fairly serious WvW guild) has been recruitin folk who are under 1k achievement points for a few months now (my server doesn’t have a big pool of experienced WvW players to choose from) and it’s basically trial by fire roaming with them while they have no 80s, don’t yet know their skills, are strugglin to learn builds, and are fightin outmanned with us against people who are really buffed out.

I would have shrugged this off as a decent troll but coming from an NSP player makes the “suggestion” scary… be careful which ideas you ascend to the devs!

I’ve gone through two pages of comments and it’s astounding seeing the amount of people who GENUINELY believe that giving the person on the losing end of a fight STRONGER ABILITIES, as some kind of reward or safety net for losing is a good idea?? It’s like any part of this game that requires player skill, reactions, ANY element of competitive gaming that breeds real competition and a feeling of wanting to get better and improve as a player, so you can come back and beat the guy that just killed you, is just being branded as ‘too hardcore, want casual option’.

Why is the concept of WvW being a Player vs Player environment, where there is actually risk involved in running around the map, such a difficult and painful concept! There are entire PvP servers in other MMOs where your level 2 character can be destroyed by a guy at max level fully geared out, and do people ask for “special abilities” to make up for their disadvantage? No, they either suck it up and grind up to max level like everyone else or they leave, go to a PvE server, and come back when they have a better understanding of the game, and a fighting chance against other players. WvW is the equivalent of a PvP server, if you decide to bring your undergeared, uplevelled character in then you’re just baiting wolves.

Even having the downed state is more than you get in some games. You run out of health? Too bad, you lose. Should have paid more attention to your surroundings, or if you’re being focused, or made sure you had an escape route/back up skill, or just known at what point in a fight you go from having a chance to win to being out of your depth.

Even if you do lose a fight and go into downed state, you can RALLY FROM PVE MOBS. You spam 1 maybe 5-6 times on a nearby creature that’s already taken some damage, and regardless of how much downed state health you had remaining, you get to come back with HALF HEALTH, a full condition wipe, 1-2 seconds of invuln, and all skills available.

And this isn’t enough. Let’s actually give people a FREE rally skill on a 3 minute cooldown! With free 33% damage reduction! And make it so that the opponent has potentially 90,000 health in downed state! And free condition transfer to everyone around you by doing absolutely nothing and allowing yourself to be attacked in downed state! This will DEFINITELY improve the playerbase of WvW, promoting resourceful, intuitive, skillful gameplay and make it the game mode that everyone wants it to be!! YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!11!11one!

Jakare.6807:

There are entire PvP servers in other MMOs where your level 2 character can be destroyed by a guy at max level fully geared out

Just ‘cause PvE games are bad at PvP doesn’t mean this one has to be too.

PvP is player versus player not spreadsheet against spreadsheet.

styx.7294:

Jakare.6807:

There are entire PvP servers in other MMOs where your level 2 character can be destroyed by a guy at max level fully geared out

Just ‘cause PvE games are bad at PvP doesn’t mean this one has to be too.

PvP is player versus player not spreadsheet against spreadsheet.

This is an mmo, not an rts or an fps, there will always be an element of gear and stat superiority.

I understand the problem that the OP has identified, but idea to solve it does nothing but give a greater advantage to veterans. The real block to new players joining WvW is information. While we can tell others to go to various out-of-game resources to learn about WvW, the majority will not. That is why I propose an in-game tutorial instance that launches upon a players first time into WvW.

This walk through instance would explain the PPT system, what the various structures are, and their importance. Tasks should be given to the new player to familiarize them with using the map, grabbing supply, building siege, repairing a wall, and joining the commander tag. All would lead up to a simulation of a typical camp capture into PvDoor paper tower experience, using NPCs as the friendly zerg. Along the way, the tutorial should give pro-tips that we all take for granted, like not taking supply during upgrades, and why PVT is good. At the end of the instance the player is rewarded with the 1st five WXP levels, 100 badges, and a choice of heavy, medium, or light Invader’s armor. They would then be transported to EB, already on their way to being a contributor.

While I think it’s acceptable to have something level the playing field for new comers, what OP suggest is nothing more than ridiculous, and it’s easy to see why there are so many “over reaction”:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Ok…300% is a bit over-the-top, I will give a maybe if it’s 50%~100% depend on how many WvW points required.

Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Some classes have very strong down skills(guardian aoe heal/knockback, ele vapor form, etc.), reduce cd by 20% is too strong, by 70%? lol

Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Here is where I draw the line where OP has no idea what he’s talking, imagine you are defending with ac, some morons decide to suicide into your aoe and all their bleed suddenly transfer all on you…nope, just not going to happen.

Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
This combine with level 2 and level 3 are just dreadful, besides, I thought PvE folks hate invulnerable, why bring this to WvW?

Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.
As if a free rez every 3 min is not powerful enough already, OP wants 3 of best escape boons attach onto it….and retaliation.

Final point, traits this powerful (AND broken) will require tons WvW points(~200 pt minimum), something no newcomer ever be able to afford. And if Anet make them easy enough to access by noobs, vets will have no doubt pick them up faster, making this so-call solution a nightmare to truly newcomers(now they not only have a harder time survive due to inexperience, but also have no chance of getting kills without a zerg).

how to level playing field ? easy enough.

start with reducing player map cap. see how that goes.

ANET has done a lot of experiment, so another experiment won’t do much harm……

What about

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Frozen_Soil

It prevents rezzes, so it should level the playing field by preventing players from rezzing.

I’d support newbie WvWers, read as no more than x ranks attained or y objectives taken accountwide, having such a low cost traitline to ease their transition into the game mode. Have the WvW Instructor introduce them to the concept of WXP by guiding them through placing their first points and explaining how to get more. New players are so easily turned off by a few bad experiences.

That said, this traitline absolutely has to disappear by the time a player gets their feet. An experienced player does not need this kind of advantage.

Details of the benefits provided and the grace period during which a player can retain them are, of course, up for debate.

Omne.4603:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

Haha!

Omne.4603:

styx.7294:

Jakare.6807:

There are entire PvP servers in other MMOs where your level 2 character can be destroyed by a guy at max level fully geared out

Just ‘cause PvE games are bad at PvP doesn’t mean this one has to be too.

PvP is player versus player not spreadsheet against spreadsheet.

This is an mmo, not an rts or an fps, there will always be an element of gear and stat superiority.

People can specialize and stuff but everyone should have the same pool of stats to work with (like I don’t mind specialization, like that you can build big DPS with exotic gear or big tank, that’s fun but I do mind when PvP is like some guy who has 2x better everything than someone else). Builds and stat allocation I would consider PvP, where you are playing against the meta and building a team. But grinding your stats higher is just a plain PvE exercise.

This is like most bizarre suggestion ever.

How can you even think that devs would give you benefits because you lack SKILL to play.

Deffe.2967:

This is like most bizarre suggestion ever.

How can you even think that devs would give you benefits because you lack SKILL to play.

I dunno, why do they put training wheels on bicycles? Do you even understand what you’re saying or do you come from a place where it’s all “Hey, I think I’m so good and played the game for a year, gimme stats”.

Omne is a pretty good player in a pretty good guild that is dedicated and loyalty to their server beyond 90% of the players in this game. If he’s got ideas on how to drum up participation and get people involved in WvW and keep our lower tiers from turning into graveyards, I definitely think we should hear it.

This is not even idea to increase wvw popularity theres 1 easy way to do it and its improving gain from wvw.

So you guys should get advantage because you wanted to pve for a year instead of practice like rest of us? Are you seriously kidding me? If your behind in strategy theres easy way to fix that just play and learn. Dont just say " Gimme OP skills so i can beat these wvw players".