Guild Wars 2

I’ve come to that conclusion..all it does is punish/reward certain classes and makes it harder for Smaller Numbers to win a fight against greater odds.

It also is extremely annoying in 1v1’s, I basically have to kill some targets twice just to finally down them as trying to down them the regular way just waste time.

I don’t get why people cry about this……………

Ele downed state sucks, yet im not complaining and i don’t have a problem with downed state.

People need to realize that its part of the game.

Get used to it or go L2P.

also, competition time:

how many threads can you link crying about the downed state?

Although Im not advocating either side, I think OP does have a decent point about how it can give larger numbers an advantage as they will just keep rezzing the fallen. The downed state in wvw should either give you lower health or be removed. As it is now, it just reinforces zerg behavior and doesn’t allow for small organized defense because eventually you will be overrun by numbers.

I’d argue that downed state benefits not the larger team, but the team that better works with it. I also argue that without downed state, battles would be way less forgiving for smaller groups. In the end it’s normally team coordination that wins battles.

No. I love downed state.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Although Im not advocating either side, I think OP does have a decent point about how it can give larger numbers an advantage as they will just keep rezzing the fallen. The downed state in wvw should either give you lower health or be removed. As it is now, it just reinforces zerg behavior and doesn’t allow for small organized defense because eventually you will be overrun by numbers.

I’m sorry, but how exactly does it reinforce zerg behaviour?

I think you forget a certain recent addition to the game called a “breakout event” which literally makes players ball up and zerg to initiate it. Snow ball effect.
Once balled it will grow into full zerg no matter what.

directed at OP
Downed is in the game, so get over it or leave. I’m fed up with kids destroying things because they QQ so much on these forums.

I, for one, disagree.

Make them all the same none of this transport kitten

Rally carries zergs, and I wouldn’t mind it being removed. Down state is fine, other than mist form allowing eles to go back into a keep/tower.

Yes let’s remove everything that I get disadvantaged from.

roostapro.9827:

I don’t get why people cry about this……………

Ele downed state sucks, yet im not complaining and i don’t have a problem with downed state.

People need to realize that its part of the game.

Get used to it or go L2P.

also, competition time:

how many threads can you link crying about the downed state?

Damn didn’t know mist form was that bad

The More numbers you have, The faster you can res a team mate, The More numbers you have, the more people you have that are able to res others while the opposing team tries to fight it off…

It rewards frankly skill-less game play of outnumbering your opponent. Now I can see why some people might enjoy it..I personally find it a balancing mistake though… Its like the whole Turtle setup people were running, It rewarded mass zerging and stacking..Which should be instant death against large amounts of AOE….But like most things in GW2, things are kind of backwards to how normal gameplay would be.

Down state is fine in WvW. A valid complaint might be that not all class’s down state skills are equal in WvW. Elementalists, for example, have the flat out BEST down state ability for WvW. The ability to run back to your team or into a nearby tower is something unique to the Elementalist. Necromancers have the worst, single target fear? Hah!

Also, the down state can be used AGAINST the enemy. I don’t know about other people, but very often I will see people who die while trying to revive their teammates, and I myself have taken advantage of this to take out opponents. If you’re having a problem with people being revived and you’re not using your abilities to stop them, you have bigger things to worry about because you are probably losing the battle anyway.

Use crowd control. Get a thief or mesmer to stealth stomp. Quickness stomp. Use a pull ability on the people who are reviving. Build a balista/catapult. Lay down poison fields. Lay stacks of conditions on the downed then spread them with epidemic. Or just DPS the people doing the reviving, they are helpless.

I kind of agree with downed state removal. (And this is coming from an Elementalist)

The problem is that if you defend/attack something with 1:2 odds it’s almost impossible to fully kill anyone (firstly the 5 target aoe limit on most spells is just stupid, but this is not the time nor the place fir this rant).
I’ve had a lot of fights where there over 4 people downed but there wasnt just any way to kill them due to always someone ressing or someone with stun or other form of cc there. (yes, I’m aware that you can waste skill slots to kill one enemy if it isn’t an ele/thief/mesmer.)

/agree with OP. Downed state is just weird and annoying

Just limit the number of people can res downed player to 1or2 it will be all fine and for gods sake I am not an engineer but please fix that class at least give them something to give them some time in downed state.

Rob.7624:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Although Im not advocating either side, I think OP does have a decent point about how it can give larger numbers an advantage as they will just keep rezzing the fallen. The downed state in wvw should either give you lower health or be removed. As it is now, it just reinforces zerg behavior and doesn’t allow for small organized defense because eventually you will be overrun by numbers.

I’m sorry, but how exactly does it reinforce zerg behaviour?

I think you forget a certain recent addition to the game called a “breakout event” which literally makes players ball up and zerg to initiate it. Snow ball effect.
Once balled it will grow into full zerg no matter what.

directed at OP
Downed is in the game, so get over it or leave. I’m fed up with kids destroying things because they QQ so much on these forums.

Your personal dislike for suggestion doesn’t mean discussion shouldn’t happen.
The ability to revive a downed ally reinforces zerg behavior because currently the quick rallies are the most effective way to sustain pushes. Just because an event helps people secure a tower does not mean it always leads to a zerg.
There are multiple ways to deal with the issue.
1. Complete removal (unlikely and probably unpopular)
2. Lower health in downed state – more pressure on zerg to try and rez leaving them selves vulnerable and makes downed easier to kill. Doesn’t affect 1v1 as both have less healh
3. Faster Decay of health – same effect as above

I would also refute the idea that people need organization to revive. Communication may make the process more efficient but ,because downed players are easily recognized and even have an icon on the map, players do end up reviving allies.
This all leads back to the idea that large numbers will overrun a smaller force eventually no matter how skillful the defensive setup was.
IMO they also need to add a 5 second penalty like they do to sPvP to slow graveyard rushing to defend objectives. (namely Stonemist)

Re: Downed State

Like a lot of things in this game, I like the basic idea, but I’m not so thrilled with the implementation.

However, I think it’s very likely to evolve over time, and probably for the better.

Oft times it’s just a delay of the inevitable, which can come across as pouring salt on the wound. It can also render a character effectively unplayable if they’re caught in a Downed/Rally loop.

Other times, though, it makes for a very dramatic, memorable note in the experience. Enough so, that I think it makes it worth keeping.

Just needs some work.

In a 3 to 1 ratio battle downed state is ridiculous because 2 people reviving a single downed player is faster than a quickness stomp. 1 person reviving a single downed player is almost as fast as a normal stomp, however factoring in the time it takes to get to the downed corpse and then the amount of skills downed players have to delay a stomp more often than not the stomp is slower than the revive.

If you apply such rules to a zerg vs zerg battle where one of the 2 zergs outnumbers the other it completely negates skill in open field battles. This ofcourse being theoretical, people are still people and we make mistakes/bad judgement calls. Aslong as you have a bigger zerg that can revive as soon as possible your smaller zerg opponent doesn’t stand a chance.

Downed state is something ANet implemented with a thought process behind it. It being removed completely is something I deem highly unlikely. I would just propose leveling all downed states, the only thing you should be able to do while downed is heal yourself. Not 4 skills, just 1, heal or die.

Also, Ele downed state being useless? lol, it’s close to being the best if you don’t count the insane warrior vengeance where, if traited, you can rally off any kill. While if not traited it just means you could still get off a frenzied 100b and kill something to trigger a rally…

down state is fine !

if u waste ur time while fighting trying to finish 1-2 thives and get wiped by another zerg… think about what u did, and stop repeating it

later, after removing the down state, we will qq about how we can rez our allies “qq… they outnumber us, even that we’r better than them, we kill them, they rez and keep fighting us…. remove that from 3w!”

plz, if u don’t get the possibilties and the stratégies that all these stats give us in 3w, plz, plz, just go do some pve !

Just dislike that a player that you have stomped can be rezzed without you being able to do anything about it, if they are rezzed a little at a time. There are no way to keep them in a stomped state as you cant hit their health to 0 again.

Maybe implement a autorelease after 3-5 minutes.

I’m not sure it needs to be removed, but the downed states do need to get balanced between all professions.

Some are just way better, and especially in large fights, its so much more valuable to be able to delay being finished off by even several seconds, tying up a bunch of attackers.

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve come to that conclusion..all it does is punish/reward certain classes and makes it harder for Smaller Numbers to win a fight against greater odds.

It also is extremely annoying in 1v1’s, I basically have to kill some targets twice just to finally down them as trying to down them the regular way just waste time.

I worked very hard to copy the traits and skills from a forums post and I followed the gearing instructions to the last detail.

But! Now I can only get an enemy player to downed state with my Killshot/Fireball/Backstab. I get no loot because his allies just revive him.

The downed state must be removed. Now!

Change it so that that my burst skill instantly kills my opponent and I get the reward I so clearly deserve.

Downed state is awesome, sometimes you just get zerged and that would be it, but with the downed state people Zerg and then move on to other characters. It’s their fault if they aren’t strong enough to fully kill you off, they need to regroup and come back with a stronger force if they want to.

downed state is fine and unique aspect of gw2

get over it plz

if you cant figure out how to finish opponents you lose :P

imo only arguable thing is that some (usually also otherwise op) classes seem to have also op downed state.

oh and pls remove invisible ressing /finishing its totally expoitable too much

It does suck that you can’t effectively kill a larger zerg.

Picking of single players is useless since rezzing is so abundant.

Gw2 has the only PvP I’ve seen where you can PvP for half an hour without actually anyone dying.

Only allowing resurrections (ergo rezzing defeated players) while out of combat and lowering the downed HP would go a long way.

I’d rather downed state be made more balanced than have it removed.

jalmari.3906:

oh and pls remove invisible ressing /finishing its totally expoitable too much

This, and balance the classes downed skill and I have no problem with it.

Goobaaa.8241:

Make them all the same none of this transport kitten

Yeah, this was my reaction too: make the downed state in WWW the same for all classes.

This topic should be removed or closed… Downed state is fine !

Batlav.6318:

imo only arguable thing is that some (usually also otherwise op) classes seem to have also op downed state.

I concur with this opinion and hereby lend my weight to it.

-rallying because a random nearby npc (or anyone really) dies = bullkitten

-a single guy who is also getting beat on healing a downed player faster than a full exotic glass cannon can damage (or even finish) them = bullkitten

-rezzing players that were finished after the fight is over so the winning zerg never has any losses = bullkitten

downstate without massive design flaws like those = meh

people saying that only the classes need to be balanced = making me sick

Downstate should only give you the chance to take one of your opponents down with you to hell if the fight was close enough. It should never prevent all losses or make fights go on forever.

Svarty.8019:

Batlav.6318:

imo only arguable thing is that some (usually also otherwise op) classes seem to have also op downed state.

I concur with this opinion and hereby lend my weight to it.

All I can say is mist form should not be able to use tower portals.

+1 for removal

All it does is support the zerg.

I don’t think removing it will ever happen. I do beleave it needs to change for the reasons stated.

It overly rewards superior numbers. Rallying off pve mobs in wvw is kitten And it’s not really well balenced across classes.

I’m all for this. Current systems and mechanics make it too rewarding to zerg around with others. It actually disadvantages small groups since they’ll be mass AoE’d to death after being downed anyway.

I like the downed state system.

Is it really that hard to stomp people? Just bring a utility that makes it easier to do so.

Quickness, stealth, invulnerability…

All those traits make stomping laughably easy. Or just keep DPSing.

The problem I have with down state is the rally. In huge battles the winner is decided mainly by which force has better AoE and can kill a player and rally their fallen forces first. Most of the skills on the downstate are completely worthless anyway. For the most part it’s all about finding a low target and hitting them a few times and waiting for the rally.

What is more annoying in WvW is how NPCs rally fallen people. Nothing like a nice small group fight, lets say 5v5 and having people keep popping back up because of some pack of wolves in the mix.

Downstate is a good addition to GW2’s play, removing it would be a bad thing.

The only problem with downstate, is it cause inane threads like this. Instead of just playing the game, some people need something to moan about on the forums, downstate is just one of them.

Brooke.9741:

Downstate is a good addition to GW2’s play, removing it would be a bad thing.

The only problem with downstate, is it cause inane threads like this. Instead of just playing the game, some people need something to moan about on the forums, downstate is just one of them.

So, instead of attacking the contributors to this thread, would you mind posting some counter arguments or even supporting your own? For instance, what makes downstate a good addition to GW2’s play and how would removing it affect players negatively in WvW?

Downstate is a great addition in my opinion because it adds a further stage before dying and that alone makes the game less annoying to play, if that’s because its psychology or what I don’t know. I hate it in games when you get zerged by a load of players then oh great I have a fun run back to my corpse.

Downstate let’s you fight on and feel heroic “I shall never give in!”.
Even if you die any way lol.

My opinions are coming from a solo and small group player. You can check the vids in my signature to verify.

I like the downed state mechanic. Yes, it makes winning fights when you are outnumbered harder… but things that challenge me are what keeps me playing. You try to come up with solutions to a problem. In all of my builds I sacrifice damage to pick up things to help my team manage downed state.

Now, with that said here are two things I HATE about the downed state system in WvW.

1) Players should not get rallied from MOB kills in WvW. Period.

2) Players who have been stomped should be forced to respawn in WvW. It sucks to be fighting a 5v20 (for example) and get people downed AND stomped but end up losing since you can’t keep that many people from rezzing STOMPED players.

Fix those two things and I’ll be a very happy solo and small group customer. Keep the overall downed state mechanic as it adds a great amount of tension to a fight, which I love.

Lynq.4079:

Downstate is a great addition in my opinion because it adds a further stage before dying and that alone makes the game less annoying to play, if that’s because its psychology or what I don’t know. I hate it in games when you get zerged by a load of players then oh great I have a fun run back to my corpse.

Downstate let’s you fight on and feel heroic “I shall never give in!”.
Even if you die any way lol.

Conceptually, I agree with you and until I started to play WvW in earnest it was pretty great. In WvW, however, it shifts balance too far towards an uninteresting and unbalanced playstyle. I would rather see it gone in WvW just to shift the balance back a bit. It absolutely kills me when a player asks in team chat “where’s the zerg” and far too many mechanics favor it at the moment.

Oozo.7856:

My opinions are coming from a solo and small group player. You can check the vids in my signature to verify.

I like the downed state mechanic. Yes, it makes winning fights when you are outnumbered harder… but things that challenge me are what keeps me playing. You try to come up with solutions to a problem. In all of my builds I sacrifice damage to pick up things to help my team manage downed state.

Now, with that said here are two things I HATE about the downed state system in WvW.

1) Players should not get rallied from MOB kills in WvW. Period.

2) Players who have been stomped should be forced to respawn in WvW. It sucks to be fighting a 5v20 (for example) and get people downed AND stomped but end up losing since you can’t keep that many people from rezzing STOMPED players.

Fix those two things and I’ll be a very happy solo and small group customer. Keep the overall downed state mechanic as it adds a great amount of tension to a fight, which I love.

+1 to this

Oozo.7856:

My opinions are coming from a solo and small group player. You can check the vids in my signature to verify.

I like the downed state mechanic. Yes, it makes winning fights when you are outnumbered harder… but things that challenge me are what keeps me playing. You try to come up with solutions to a problem. In all of my builds I sacrifice damage to pick up things to help my team manage downed state.

Now, with said here are two things I HATE about the downed state system.

1) Players should not get rallied from MOB kills in WvW. Period.

2) Players who have been stomped should be forced to respawn in WvW. It sucks to be fighting a 5v20 (for example) and get people downed AND stomped but end up losing since you can’t keep that many people from rezzing STOMPED players.

Fix those two things and I’ll be a very happy solo and small group customer. Keep the overall downed state mechanic as it adds a great amount of tension to a fight, which I love.

As a fellow small manner, I completely agree with both your points.

Also…I think that the speed of in-combat rezzing of downed players is a little crazy. If there are two people combat-rezzing a guy I downed, it is VERY hard for me to kill him before he is up. I can use CC sure, but even then I have to blow my CC, and a lot of times they get the downed guy up anyway.

I really think that the speed of in-combat rezzing should be reduced.

No
1. HIgh bursts should not win solo 3-4 ppls
2. portal bombs should not be the deciding factor
3. Small groups already got advantage of siegerazer when enter new map, they should not be buffed more

Rayya.2591:

No
1. HIgh bursts should not win solo 3-4 ppls
2. portal bombs should not be the deciding factor
3. Small groups already got advantage of siegerazer when enter new map, they should not be buffed more

This was random.

TwoBit.5903:

Lynq.4079:

Downstate is a great addition in my opinion because it adds a further stage before dying and that alone makes the game less annoying to play, if that’s because its psychology or what I don’t know. I hate it in games when you get zerged by a load of players then oh great I have a fun run back to my corpse.

Downstate let’s you fight on and feel heroic “I shall never give in!”.
Even if you die any way lol.

Conceptually, I agree with you and until I started to play WvW in earnest it was pretty great. In WvW, however, it shifts balance too far towards an uninteresting and unbalanced playstyle. I would rather see it gone in WvW just to shift the balance back a bit. It absolutely kills me when a player asks in team chat “where’s the zerg” and far too many mechanics favor it at the moment.

Oozo.7856:

My opinions are coming from a solo and small group player. You can check the vids in my signature to verify.

I like the downed state mechanic. Yes, it makes winning fights when you are outnumbered harder… but things that challenge me are what keeps me playing. You try to come up with solutions to a problem. In all of my builds I sacrifice damage to pick up things to help my team manage downed state.

Now, with that said here are two things I HATE about the downed state system in WvW.

1) Players should not get rallied from MOB kills in WvW. Period.

2) Players who have been stomped should be forced to respawn in WvW. It sucks to be fighting a 5v20 (for example) and get people downed AND stomped but end up losing since you can’t keep that many people from rezzing STOMPED players.

Fix those two things and I’ll be a very happy solo and small group customer. Keep the overall downed state mechanic as it adds a great amount of tension to a fight, which I love.

+1 to this

Maybe having it as some sort of time limit would be good?
10 seconds to kill something, but no revive, Would that make a difference?

remove down state