Guild Wars 2

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Perhaps the downed state is here to stay in PvP, but it’s an awful mechanic that promotes zerging in WvW and makes fighting outnumbered (even 2v1 in sPvP) much more difficult than it inherently would be. Honestly, I really don’t get enjoyment out of flinging poo at people once I’m downed, nor do I get enjoyment out of being a pain and using my skills to prevent stomps. Sure, it can send me into a fit of laughter when a daggerstorming thief kills a doe and rallies me mid fight, but in all honesty it’s just very gimmicky. The amount of annoyance of having enemies rally when you’re already outnumbered far outweighs the enjoyment you get from rallying off of a vet guard or an ally stomp.

Basically what I’m trying to say is that the downed state doesn’t really add anything “fun” to PvP, besides tipping the odds in favor of numbers and gimmicks (cough vet guard rallies). I can see why this would be an interesting mechanic in PvE, but it’s really just damaging PvP. I’m not sure how a mechanic like this could ever be associated with “competitive” PvP. It’s certainly not that I can’t learn to live with it, I can; however, that doesn’t change the fact that overall it’s detrimental to the PvP scene, in particular WvW more than sPvP.

You remember that write-up during beta from one of the devs that sounded a little furious about putting too much into the downed state? The downed state should be simple and boring, not a game of its own. It was overdone. I have literally seen downed players do more damage to me than when they were up – downing me, in fact. I have seen too many saved by a zerg as they port (further than the ability shows) into the midst of friendlies. I have seen a thief invisible port four times in five seconds (also more than what the ability allows) moving faster than enemy could pursue.

Downed is ridiculously implemented in half the classes.

Yeah. Going invis and porting three times while downed, with clones that accept a finisher is ridiculous.

The elemental downed abilities are worthless. You have to kill someone not attacking you, or the person you down will just finish you off from their own downed state. Kill someone at 1%, dodge back twice, while switching to water to heal, is like your best bet for not being downed again.

Yeah, I don’t have too many problems with it in WvW but it’s annoying as hell in sPvP.

But I think you make a good point in that it’s detrimental to skillful PvP play.

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah, I don’t have too many problems with it in WvW but it’s annoying as hell in sPvP.

But I think you make a good point in that it’s detrimental to skillful PvP play.

Except for some classes have crappy downed state skills, it is not detrimental to skillful PvP, anybody that believe that is not thinking correctly. The down state adds a layer, it makes the player ask themselves, do i really want to risk dying to finish off said player or do I want to finish him off but take a lot of damage if said player counter attacks and thereby put myself at risk.

I Agree on this, I hate the downed stat.

Maybe becuase I’m playing an engineer and our downed stats are really weak (IMO), but I can’t stand it.

Like previous poster said, when you are 1v2-3 and you kill one of them, it’s nearly impossible to finish him. Most class can at least interrupt once the finisher. Other can do it twice or even worse. That so annoying, and if you try to finish him with damage, his ally can rez him faster.

And I,m not even counting to glass cannon that hit like a truck even when downed.

I once fought a Mesmer, he was prolly outgearing me because he was hiting so hard and had good exp. But with some dodge and CC, I got him dead with 7k hp left. He went down and started hiting me. But he was hitting like a truck, I cheked combat log after, he was hiting for 1.5k with “mind blast” (don’t know, must be the downed state auto attack) each shot. So what ever I try to go for the finish. But he just port out of the wait and continu hiting me.

I finally died to a downed oponnent when I still gad 7k HP.

I don’t think you should be able to hit for 1.5k in downed state, and I heard even bigger number on the forum.

I really hate down state, and I hope it get removed. Would help when you fight outnumbered!

Have to say, at first I really liked the mechanic. But now i just find it annoying in WvW/PvP. Wouldn’t mind seeing this done away with or neutered. I think the stealthing, porting and dmg’ing needs to be done away with.

I said this during the Beta, and I will say it again:

The downed state is amazingly awesome, and frustratingly kittened up.

Every class needs to have the same type of downed skills:

1 – attack, or smaller attack + condition, basically the same as it is now
2 – stun, knockback, illusion, something that can stop a stomp once, but not twice in a row
3 – something cool and profession related, I especially like the warrior one and would use that as a base model for “strength” of this one
4 – same as it is now

If this was the case, then it would make a lot more sense.

And to add more, it make zerging even better. If you have a good team, you can always revive people so fast the ennemies don’t have the time finish the downed player.

Revive, go back, heal, come back. That’s why zerg are really hard to finish.

Kardiamond.6952:

And to add more, it make zerging even better. If you have a good team, you can always revive people so fast the ennemies don’t have the time finish the downed player.

Revive, go back, heal, come back. That’s why zerg are really hard to finish.

That’s a good tactic. And if the other team is good, they’ll have somebody who can come in, knockback, drop some damage (possibly knock back again) and then get out of dodge and not only do your players not get rezzed, but you have taken damage and not put any out for a while….that’s what I love about WvW…reading the situation and trying to make the right moves at the right times to swing the whole battle.

Like a 3 man flank that downs 10 players before they even realize what’s happening, especially if they’re on siege…

I have so much hate for the downed state in PvP. It’s the only thing I litterally hate about this game. The devs can keep it rolling in PvE so their code doesn’t go to waist IMO.

I had an exciting moment where we pushed from a keep in WVW when I was downed. I was able to push a couple back before they finished me and when they came in the 2nd time my allies had caught up and pushed them back.

For sPvP ArenaNet has made an artistic choice that has strategic relevance.

Personally I think for most people the issue they have with the downed state is that they historically expect that when a persons health his zero, they are dead, job done.

The fact that it moves into a secondary phase that someone may eventually recover from and beat you is frustrating for many. The flip side is there’s nothing worse than watching team-mates run past not ressing and in the moment where your about to rally, you get finished off.

I personally don’t have a problem with it and it adds an extra dynamic to the game that you have to account for. You have to know what people’s down state is, running up to a guardian and pressing the ‘F’ key is pointless, you have to strategise for this.

The questions I think that are important is how much should it be buffed/nerfed?

Well if people want to keep it, then I think it should be nerfed or at least rebalanced.

I know when I kill a mesmer or a guardian, It won’t be easy to finish. Other like Elem, engi or I think necro? not much they can do. Warrior auto attack while downed hit like a truck too, is it really ok?

+1 hate

It’s frustrating as a small group to wipe out a chunk of a zerg only to see them bounce back up seconds later before you can finish them.

I have no prob with the slow rez for “dead” players.

/sign.

Downed has no place in PvP. Either do some heavy balancing on it or just take it out.

A rebalance I agree would be fine to give everyone a fair chance at avoiding 1 or 2 stomps when solo. However to say that it is hindering to skillful pvp is absolutely moronic. It adds a pretty big layer to the skilled player’s game.

Knowing what abilities can be used vs the downed players and what abilities have already been used by the players downed around you is a huge deal when you are not a moron.

As for fighting zergs with less numbers it is also pretty dumb to say that downed state makes it hard for the people with less. I LOVE when someone gets downed because it means they ARE NOT MOVING. Drop some ranged GTAOE on them and watch 4 people come die along with the downed player. Not to mention the fact that 4 people rezzing are no longer using any abilities. The more you stack the more I kill you PLEASE DO IT MORE!

It really is sad that the most players will come the forums and cry about a mechanic before taking the time to try and make the best of it. I’m just glad anet is a company that doesn’t listen to all you crybabies.

<3 JP, Izzy, and Chap

Gonna have to chime in on this as well. I hate the down state Period I honestly don’t mind it in PvE that much, but in WvW and sPvP it is incredibly annoying (on either side.) If i’m dead, I should just stay dead and that’s that. In WvW there’s almost no point in picking out a target in a zerg because they’ll come back up in 2 seconds because they have 10 people around them to rez them back. At the very least modify the mechanics a little bit to make death more meaningful in WvW or just simply take it out of PvP and just leave it in the PvE world.

Razeo.2309:

Gonna have to chime in on this as well. I hate the down state Period I honestly don’t mind it in PvE that much, but in WvW and sPvP it is incredibly annoying (on either side.) If i’m dead, I should just stay dead and that’s that. In WvW there’s almost no point in picking out a target in a zerg because they’ll come back up in 2 seconds because they have 10 people around them to rez them back. At the very least modify the mechanics a little bit to make death more meaningful in WvW or just simply take it out of PvP and just leave it in the PvE world.

If you are going to “chime” in on a topic you should read the posts already in it….

Teulux.6732:

It really is sad that the most players will come the forums and cry about a mechanic before taking the time to try and make the best of it. I’m just glad anet is a company that doesn’t listen to all you crybabies.

I’m a thief. I do make the best of it. In fact, I get the best of both worlds. Not only do we have probably the best downed state abilities, but we can also stealth stomp, which makes killing downed players much more manageable.

Still, I don’t understand you feel this contributes at all to the skill cap in PvP. It’s obvious you don’t have much of an understanding of how the downed state compounds the power of numbers. No one with a brain is going to stand in your AOE and try to rezz their allies, but those four players could easily turn around, destroy you, and rally their buddy.

If they turn around and fight me then I don’t have to worry about the downed player do I? I can just keep hitting him 1 time every 4 seconds or drop AoE around him to stop him from healing.

It is funny that you sugjest that I don’t understand the power of numbers with downed state in the game considering you have no Idea who I am or what I do in game. My post simply made a clear counter point agaist yours about how it has almost no effect on skilled small groups vs zergs.

I have 0 (ZERO) problem fighting more numbers with my group and we have bombed 50+ people zergs with 5 and the downed state had no impact on us at all when handled the correct way. The fact that you don’t understand how to handle downed state shows your lack of skill involving the game’s mechanics. (see what I did there?)

I already said that it could use some rebalace in my 1st post and I stand by that. However to say that it takes no skill to understand an entirely new set of skills and counters that players gain when they enter downed state is completely idiotic.

My advice to you….

L2P

Get rid of it in pvp, keep it in pve…./sign

Are you seeing this ANet? No one likes it.

Generally speaking I too hate it,

but I feel people would die a little too easy without it, even in PvP. But this can easily be remedied by giving everyone some additional HP.

The downed state has no place in spvp or wvw imo. Especially since classes (eg theives) are able to finish people off much easier then other people. They just pop stealth and bam they are done. It makes things so unfair its just ridiculous remove the downed state from everything besides pve.

My guardian has a good downed state but my necro one sucks. I don’t like downed state. I can’t tell you the amount of times people summoned clones of themselves and i finish off the clones and by the time I realise the person is 20 meters away he is already rallied. Also its annoying when they teleport or go invisible in the middle of a zerg.

Anders.6425:

Are you seeing this ANet? No one likes it.

No one?

hated downstate in all forms of pvp since the beta weekends.

WvW sieges can be at times a complete joke with small casualties inflicted on the attackers because of the difficulty in finishing people off from up on a wall. not too many people, among those with the right class skillset can jump down and finish someone off in the midst of dozens. this in turn sees more defender casualties than attackers if/when the gate is breached.

zerg v zerg? stragglers and melee players who think their team has their backs are usually the only victims.

spvp… my most hated of all moments.. downing 2 or more, another enemy finishing me off, everyone is back on their feet with no damage done. this leaves so much room for error on part of the outnumbering force that skill on part of the outnumbered is trivialized if they don’t have the utilities/cooldowns to finish people off.

Its kitten kitten Anet…Lets make it go away and pretend it never happened.

MrPicklez.6473:

No one with a brain is going to stand in your AOE and try to rezz their allies, but those four players could easily turn around, destroy you, and rally their buddy.

The problem with this example is completely unrelated to the downed state.

The problem is that you’re effectively trying to 5v1.

As for the thread in general: I think it’s indicative of the way ArenaNet is trying to direct the game towards objectives, rather than the optimal strategy being ‘kill everyone’. And I support gameplay more involved than ‘kill to win’.

I like the downed state in PvE, but I absolutely hate it in PvP. It has actually made me rage quit a couple of times, because it’s just that kitten frustrating.

Teulux.6732:

Razeo.2309:

Gonna have to chime in on this as well. I hate the down state Period I honestly don’t mind it in PvE that much, but in WvW and sPvP it is incredibly annoying (on either side.) If i’m dead, I should just stay dead and that’s that. In WvW there’s almost no point in picking out a target in a zerg because they’ll come back up in 2 seconds because they have 10 people around them to rez them back. At the very least modify the mechanics a little bit to make death more meaningful in WvW or just simply take it out of PvP and just leave it in the PvE world.

If you are going to “chime” in on a topic you should read the posts already in it….

You mean that long-winded post you made regarding “make the most of it” bit? Yea, I just chose to ignore it

Actually I’m going to go against the flow and disagree. I’ve separated this out for the ease of discussion.

1. I don’t think people fully understand the impact this will have on PVP. Downed state is an extra strategic layer as well as a buffer to spike damage.

2. Everyone looks at downed state abilities for “weak” downed classes on a “save my own kitten” perspective. Some are useful to assist allies even if you are downed.

3. Most of the complaints here are from people frustrated that they dropped kills or didn’t get kills.

4. Against lower skilled players downed state makes it harder to take on larger groups. Against skilled players however the down state matters far far far less.

5. Rallies happen most of the time because people are being over aggressive. WvW is surviving first and killing later in many situations, your average player can’t think further than “DPS” and “OMG I’m Dyin!!”.

6. Downed abilities can be tweaked, there are middle grounds between now and “OMG REMOVE EET!”

7. If someone gives up traits for better downed then they deserve the power that it gives them. They give up ALOT to get that very situational boost.

8. Any bugs like crazy porting and stealthing thieves are not the fault of downed and more than cars cause car crashes.

Downed state plays a big part of game balance. It somewhat slows down zerg glasscannon builds, because they need to stomp to really kill you. That gives your team a chance to get you back on your feet, otherwise you’d see even more glasscannon builds running around killing people in under a second. Actually stomping you takes longer.

But, downed state isnt balanced. Some professions are kitten near worthless when downed (Engineer and Elementalist come to mind) that deal very low damage and have very limited survival mechanics.
Then there are classes that deal insane damage (Thief and Mesmer), and can crit upwards to 1k+ on their spam ability. And Mesmers can pop out a Illusionairy Rogue that can crit upwards to 6k! From a downed state! While Thief isnt specially hard to actually finish off when downed, a Mesmer also zips around all over the place and spawns more clones and illusions.And imo Warrior is underestimated.

Atm for PvP they should give all professions the same downed abilities untill they can actually balance them out somewhat, because right now downed state is completely unbalanced.

Have to agree with OP. Let’s remove the trinity and put in a downed state instead!

Lame.

W/e, on positive note: I love downed enemies since I can drop a crap load of AoEs on them knowing that all their dudes will be waddling over to revive them. Then again, my AoE as an ele simply tickles them and generally does nothing useful if there is over 5 people there.

On the down side, ele down state is utterly worthless. Thanks Anet for that, btw.

Downed state is just an awesome PVP mechanic. Love it.

Cry more plx.

This is how it always is with mechanics that change the way games are played.

Good players will adapt and get used to it and build off it.

Bad players will cry about it ruining their game, and say it takes no skill.

You are not fooling anyone. Get over it. It is here to stay.

pve = it’s great
wvw = it’s ok.
spvp = remove it!

running a main elementalist.. the Elementalist downed state for pvp is very weak.

Downed state is just annoying as kitten.

rangers downed skills are crap for pvp…1 sec daze? my pet res heal me after 10 secs?my auto attacks hit low and only drop bleed? while others getting up for avenge themselves , invis port , clone port etc.???

yea man ty , ranger downed is so imba -.- gj arena! -.-

Trismegistos.3046:

pve = it’s great
wvw = it’s ok.
spvp = remove it!

Pve = Great
Spvp = poor
WvW=very poor (encourages zerging + impossible for small groups to take out much larger groups in open fights)

downed state system actually keeps me away from playing spvp

still hope they remove it outside of pve or simplify it to 2 abilities:
1) current selfheal
2) kill urself for faster respawn
nothing else, no damage, no interrupts, no finisher avoidingbullkitten

you would still have 3 choices, especially for competitve pvp
if you are in a safespot => heal urself
if you have an ally around => wait for rezz
if neither of those are the case => just die and respawn

Rea.5743:

downed state system actually keeps me away from playing spvp

still hope they remove it outside of pve or simplify it to 2 abilities:
1) current selfheal
2) kill urself for faster respawn
nothing else, no damage, no interrupts, no finisher avoidingbullkitten

you would still have 3 choices, especially for competitve pvp
if you are in a safespot => heal urself
if you have an ally around => wait for rezz
if neither of those are the case => just die and respawn

Awesome idea.I would put my bet on that.

fixit.7189:

Have to agree with OP. Let’s remove the trinity and put in a downed state instead!

Lame.

W/e, on positive note: I love downed enemies since I can drop a crap load of AoEs on them knowing that all their dudes will be waddling over to revive them. Then again, my AoE as an ele simply tickles them and generally does nothing useful if there is over 5 people there.

On the down side, ele down state is utterly worthless. Thanks Anet for that, btw.

As an Ele you can drop multiple AOE’s on the same area in a very short time frame. Stack them. Also keep in mind that frost bow has a nice AOE damage spell in it. Most people don’t like the bow but the AOE damage spell in it is strong and it’s one of the best things in the game for applying long duration chill. It’s also good for providing a nice ranged AOE to

An example of an AOE lineup: Meteor Shower>>>Firestorm (glyph)>>>>Ice Storm. If they are stupid enough to still be there follow it with an eruption>>>static field>>>>flame burst>>>>lava font.

Helspyre.7082:

+1 hate

It’s frustrating as a small group to wipe out a chunk of a zerg only to see them bounce back up seconds later before you can finish them.

I have no prob with the slow rez for “dead” players.

Happened too many time with my small group we just don’t run anymore, love to see this downed system go.

Most importantly, downed state mechanics shouldn’t allow one of your opponents to return to live if his team mate downs YOU after you downed him, in situations where you are up alone against two. Can it really get more unsportsmanship-like than that?

What I don’t like about the downed state is people rallying after doing 1 damage to some random mob they aggrod in the fight, and then use later as a rally beacon from the damage that you’re doing. I can’t stop my sword from doing AoE damage, and the Wolf/Coyote/Panther/Moose/Cow/Deer that they’re attacking to rally off of just pisses me off. It especially pisses me off when I nearly finish them, but am low on HP myself, only to find myself fighting against someone who just got 50% of their HP back by rallying off of something that took most of the DPS from me.

Solutions?
1 – You can’t rally off of NPCs in WvW.
2 – You have to do a majority of the damage relative to your opponent in WvW (whoever did the most damage to it can rally from it)
3 – Major debuff from rallying that prevents skill use for 3-5 seconds. (This at least gives players who are near death a fighting chance against nonsense.)

Who knows? Maybe I’m just whining.

MrPicklez.6473:

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Perhaps the downed state is here to stay in PvP, but it’s an awful mechanic that promotes zerging in WvW and makes fighting outnumbered (even 2v1 in sPvP) much more difficult than it inherently would be. Honestly, I really don’t get enjoyment out of flinging poo at people once I’m downed, nor do I get enjoyment out of being a pain and using my skills to prevent stomps. Sure, it can send me into a fit of laughter when a daggerstorming thief kills a doe and rallies me mid fight, but in all honesty it’s just very gimmicky. The amount of annoyance of having enemies rally when you’re already outnumbered far outweighs the enjoyment you get from rallying off of a vet guard or an ally stomp.

Basically what I’m trying to say is that the downed state doesn’t really add anything “fun” to PvP, besides tipping the odds in favor of numbers and gimmicks (cough vet guard rallies). I can see why this would be an interesting mechanic in PvE, but it’s really just damaging PvP. I’m not sure how a mechanic like this could ever be associated with “competitive” PvP. It’s certainly not that I can’t learn to live with it, I can; however, that doesn’t change the fact that overall it’s detrimental to the PvP scene, in particular WvW more than sPvP.

Downed state adds a whole new dimension to fighting. Not sure where you are coming from but it’s wrong.

Just when I thought Second Chance was the most annoying thing on this planet… AHHAhahAH, good one Anet, good one!

Ralathar.7236:

Actually I’m going to go against the flow and disagree.

1. I don’t think people fully understand the impact this will have on PVP. Downed state is an extra strategic layer as well as a buffer to spike damage.

I don’t think people fully understand the impact the downed state has on PVP. Downed state removes the important strategic layer of fighting backwards as well as turning small scale combat into all or nothing fights.