Guild Wars 2

Aeolus.3615:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Mithrilos.8036:

Bunker Druids, DH perma block invul rotation, Condi Mersmer.

I main warrior rifle and i found signet of power very usefull in teamfight in WvW…
against alls theses block, mirror…insane healing.

Brutal burst end everything ( kitten that warrior endure pain ah ah)

just saying.

Warriors op please nerf

yet there is no DH perma block invul rotation :|, i would not call f3, RF, F3 again, that is not OP, theres a 180 degree arc than can be hitted..
After that DH dies… unless he goes full vir and healing power, but that is not a problem he cant kill either.

Thats called a trade off, u sacrifice all damage for defensive team support.

A guardian can chain alot of block and invulnerability but ya we are being exaggerative here like all the people who lost a loot bag from druids after chasing them across the map and then slowly killed.

Justine.6351:

Aeolus.3615:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Mithrilos.8036:

Bunker Druids, DH perma block invul rotation, Condi Mersmer.

I main warrior rifle and i found signet of power very usefull in teamfight in WvW…
against alls theses block, mirror…insane healing.

Brutal burst end everything ( kitten that warrior endure pain ah ah)

just saying.

Warriors op please nerf

yet there is no DH perma block invul rotation :|, i would not call f3, RF, F3 again, that is not OP, theres a 180 degree arc than can be hitted..
After that DH dies… unless he goes full vir and healing power, but that is not a problem he cant kill either.

Thats called a trade off, u sacrifice all damage for defensive team support.

A guardian can chain alot of block and invulnerability but ya we are being exaggerative here like all the people who lost a loot bag from druids after chasing them across the map and then slowly killed.

IC some of zerker druid 1 vs 4, with arround 3minutes boons, but all it takes is some CoR pressure on it. :P
Theres to much squishy players leechind and expecting the damage output to do the work for them, those are the same who want to just frontal spam against a DH and win, even if they dont want to learn how to play..

A Guardian/DH to achieve a very blocky build wont do damage, theres a trade off to achieve that also.

I actually play one, but i do 800-1k crit damage against squishy players, i can get focused for a few seconds from blob firing on me, but that all their fault to focus on one player that is using RF…

MidoriMarch.8067:

Druids are OP in wvw.

Feels like watching ele back in 2012~2013 but with more mobility , healing , kiting

Why is this class can stealth ,

heal more than support ele does ,

superior kiting range from 1200~1500 ,

hits hard even with stacked toughness and vitality ,

they are extremely hard to kill and hard to ignore/run from

Seriously some of class like druids , condi mesmers , condi trap thief makes wvw extremely boring and unhealthy to play

You should uninstall. Druids are probably one of the easier classes to kill.

CC / interrupt is your friend.

Napo.1230:

Ranger was never a door mat they just refused to not play longbow pew pew and got smashed when the gap was closed.
I loved melee ranger pre HoT it was my main wvw build. Remember using pets like wolf to fear and prevent stomps now it’s just let them run free and heal up so passive.

kitten , melee ranger pre-hot was so good and so much fun.

It’s a shame elite specs have outclassed it.

Mithrilos.8036:

Bunker Druids, DH perma block invul rotation, Condi Mersmer.

I main warrior rifle and i found signet of power very usefull in teamfight in WvW…
against alls theses block, mirror…insane healing.

Brutal burst end everything ( kitten that warrior endure pain ah ah)

just saying everyone as his own counter, it may not be the one you think.

(ps: curse my bad english :x)

think you might appreciate this,

Justine.6351:

Mithrilos.8036:

Bunker Druids, DH perma block invul rotation, Condi Mersmer.

I main warrior rifle and i found signet of power very usefull in teamfight in WvW…
against alls theses block, mirror…insane healing.

Brutal burst end everything ( kitten that warrior endure pain ah ah)

just saying everyone as his own counter, it may not be the one you think.

(ps: curse my bad english :x)

think you might appreciate this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOIaRDzeS9U

Rev op please nef

I have been casually following this trend. First of all I wish to say that I agree with the OP for the following reasons:
1) Commander Gear + Commander Weapons + Boon Duration food + Durability Runes on ranger results in some ridiculous returns on investments for rangers. All of a sudden Zephyr speed is pushing out almost 6 seconds of Quickness, you AND your pet have 25 stacks of might, you have swiftness for 2mins, fury for 1min and a half, regen for 2mins and protection and resistance up practically every time you get bursted and for extreme lengths of time.

2) Staff AA – It is interesting how much damage you can do in a short period of time with a pet swap, 6 seconds of quickness, 25 stacks of might and fury + F2 pet skill, during this burst of yours this skill can not be reflected or destroyed since it is not a projectile. In-fact you have quickness for so long that even if your opponent spammed both dodges they’d still get creamed by 50% of your ‘aim-bot’ damage train. If they stealth it does not matter either since Staff AA is a channeled skill and will continue to cleave great chasms of HP off yourself for several AAs later.

3) Pets with 25 stacks of might, Fury and Swiftness and Regen are not only hard to kill if you’ve spent the last damage rotation creaming the first pet before the Ranger diligently swaps it out for the next pet but it also hits you hard if you don’t focus it down.

4) Ranger Stealth. It seems as though even if you manage to pierce the seemingly ludicrous protection up-time, weather the 25 stacks of might on both it and it’s pet and managed to carve 50% of a Ranger’s HP off they can either 1200 range away with Ancestral Grace into a smoke cloud from their pet or go Celestial Avatar and quickness walk away from you in a diligent direction. Of course if you take Greatsword on ranger you have another option for increasing the distance between you and the enemy, so add satisfying 1100 range on top of that and the scary thing is gone. But that’s not really necessary because of the next thing we’ll talk about…

5) Heal As One. 16s. 7000hp heal. That copies boons and distributes those nice boons you’ve been getting from all those shouts and those traits (Clarion Bond, Zephyr’s Speed, Resounding Timbre and Brutish Seals). Due to it’s low cool-down it’s always up and always ready to turn that modest 12 stacks of might into an Orrian Gorilla of 25 stacks of monstrosity.

So when are all done with it you end up sitting on a nice 3300 power (might + bloodlust stacks), 3300+ armor (ignoring boons), 50% crit chance, +180% crit damage. That’s only on yourself, not your pet. Both you and your pet have access to 25 stacks of might, stability (10 stacks at a time if you so desire), Fury, Regen, Swiftness, (6s on 15s cool-down) Quickness, Protection and Resistance… all by yourself… and all of which you can spread around freely like Santa Claus with Heal As One.

Any-one who thinks that because Ranger ’wasn’t good’ for ‘insert duration of years’ and therefore ‘it is now time to let Rangers have a free run’ is being completely daft to the reality of what this really represents. Not only is this over-powered but it is disrespectful to other players to imply that this is some-how OK. The fact of the matter remains that I have not talked about the passive healing granted by taking Druid and Natural Healing, the fact that you also have access to a massive condition cleanse (this build does not compromise anything to gain damage), nor have I made any comparisons to what was unacceptable for other classes but seems to completely pass through customs (with much heavier luggage mind you) every 4 months when it’s in the company of a Druid.

Second of all:
Let’s stop deflecting by bringing other classes into this discussion. They will get their own spot-light in a discussion labeled precisely for them, all in due time.

Thirdly:
Should we even need to talk about this thing in a group? Do we even need to at this stage?

IMHO, walls of text posted as if they are fact, in fact often contain some complete BS.

( alongside the rest which is always just personal opinion regardless of basis)

Having read the entire thread I still disagree with the OP.

Have a nice day.

Wow, cool stuff.

BRB regearing Druid

LilBiM.3581:

2) Staff AA – It is interesting how much damage you can do in a short period of time with a pet swap, 6 seconds of quickness, 25 stacks of might and fury + F2 pet skill, during this burst of yours this skill can not be reflected or destroyed since it is not a projectile. In-fact you have quickness for so long that even if your opponent spammed both dodges they’d still get creamed by 50% of your ‘aim-bot’ damage train. If they stealth it does not matter either since Staff AA is a channeled skill and will continue to cleave great chasms of HP off yourself for several AAs later.

Who doesn’t deal dmg with AA under 25 might, quickness and fury. And no staff doesn’t continue channeling “for several AAs later” on stealth targets. Put revenant hammer aa and watch the crying commence.

This thread wants for staff,

-600 range and on ancestral grace
-reduced healing on ancestral grace
-30 sec recharge on ancestral grace
-reduced dmg on staff aa

Like what is staff suppose to do? Blast a field once every 30sec, deny projectiles every 25sec and call it a balanced weapon? Ele can get that on earth focus in a single skill!
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave

Commander gear with durability runes are available to every class so don’t blame the druid class for that .Your basing your entire argument on that alone .All the stacks that are received are based on having that specific set of gear on.
Heal as one only shares the boons that your pet or you have on at the moment not all the boons that the skill describes .The stealth of Smoke scale is 1 second with a blast finisher and stealth isn’t effected by boon duration. Celestial Avatar is 3 seconds.No difference in the length of time to equivalent skills available to theif or mesmer.As for swiftness ,all classes have a significant amount of swiftness available to them look at engineer utilities as an example if your not convinced.
As for comments about deflecting by bringing in other classes to compare brings your whole argument into question.Like a Spanish inquest you have called out one class over powered without allowing relevant comparison.I find that typical of most of these arguments about OP classes.
Of all the whining about I hear about how this class or that class is over powered 99% of the time the whiner was wearing bezerker gear or simple a mediocre player and got wrecked.
Personally I don’t wear commanders gear and not a great player ,but I have had run ins with druids that have .I’ve won some because I was better than the opponent and lost some because the opponent was just better than me.
Your whole argument is over bias and full of holes .

“Pets with 25 stacks of might, Fury and Swiftness and Regen are not only hard to kill if you’ve spent the last damage rotation creaming the first pet before the Ranger diligently swaps it out for the next pet but it also hits you hard if you don’t focus it down.”

I think this is the best point so far. I’m a nerd and run minion master, just about any class can nuke my minions in a matter of seconds. For some reason a rangers pet can tank forever with multiple boons and whatever else anet rewarded them with. But then the druid just summons the next one.

You can focus the pet all you want, but a staff druid can easily spam 1,1,1 and cause significant damage.

I only whine because I’m bias towards necro and our minions are made of glass it seems no matter what build you run.

They are starting to get that rep for “no thanks” in wvw. The new mesmer lol

RodOfDeath.5247:

“Pets with 25 stacks of might, Fury and Swiftness and Regen are not only hard to kill if you’ve spent the last damage rotation creaming the first pet before the Ranger diligently swaps it out for the next pet but it also hits you hard if you don’t focus it down.”

I think this is the best point so far. I’m a nerd and run minion master, just about any class can nuke my minions in a matter of seconds. For some reason a rangers pet can tank forever with multiple boons and whatever else anet rewarded them with. But then the druid just summons the next one.

You can focus the pet all you want, but a staff druid can easily spam 1,1,1 and cause significant damage.

I only whine because I’m bias towards necro and our minions are made of glass it seems no matter what build you run.

They are starting to get that rep for “no thanks” in wvw. The new mesmer lol

Unlike necro, pets are not optional for ranger and do not account for a 3rd of the damage calculations… A ton of traits are tied with our pet as well.

When you swap pets they lose whatever buffs they have. Also, there is only one trait line with boon share. Also, put rangers in a zerg and their pets are dead so there goes all the crap that the ranger is forced to build around. Also, it’s well documented that ranger pets struggle to hit moving targets and their skills are easily negated by side stepping or a single dodge. Also, if any player is dying to a pet they have l2p issues. Also, I take issue with a thief main… that runs a no toughness build… that thinks ranger auto does 7-8k damage… comes to the forums complaining that something is OP.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Which would be better overall ? Both Damage and Sustain wise

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVn0MBFmilOBGOB8PhFYCTLBEA2NzdwTYL0LNcGaDA-TVCEABurPggHAg/q/8wRAoJlfGcCA6SJ4+7PAwhAIAwBwvFuv/G45lXe5lXunH+5nH+5RBhWA-w SCRAPPER RUNE BUILD

OR

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVn0MBFmilOBGOB8PhFYCbuDeCbhephzQbQLBEA2NA-TlCEAB+r+BgKBJ4BA8z+DGcCAaS5n76DA4QAkoKIPcEACAgA8bCnv9Ngje0je0je0euwduzFuzFFEaB-w WURM RUNE BUILD

Let me know ur opinion guys thanks.

Players have spent 4 years seeing the same old same old thief tactics, so yeah, we can play against them easier… The op is unwilling to adapt to meta changes so this thread was started.

Coming up against Rangers with both my own Ranger and other classes the pets are the easiest thing to avoid. Frankly they’re not much to worry about if you’re aware of them. As for being overpowered… get a grip, they’re not over powered. Like any class with a good person who really knows and can play the class well, they might appear over powered.. but really that’s just because the person they are fighting hasn’t figured out how to fight a Ranger yet.

Some of you really hate this comment.. but seriously.. learn to play against a Ranger and you will see that they’re not all you think they are.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Coming up against Rangers with both my own Ranger and other classes the pets are the easiest thing to avoid. Frankly they’re not much to worry about if you’re aware of them. As for being overpowered… get a grip, they’re not over powered. Like any class with a good person who really knows and can play the class well, they might appear over powered.. but really that’s just because the person they are fighting hasn’t figured out how to fight a Ranger yet.

Some of you really hate this comment.. but seriously.. learn to play against a Ranger and you will see that they’re not all you think they are.

I don’t think they are anything special myself, just a little annoying at times and I can sympathize with the OP. They can give the illusion they are immortal.

Overall, I feel deadlocked with them most of the fight but what really sucks is they swoop away, staff port thing and the smart ones resummon their pet ready to go. I’m a slow fatty necro so it gets a little annoying but honestly that appears to be every roamer now: warrior, thief, mesmer, gaurds, etc but that’s just the roaming world today and somewhat always has been.

I wish necros got a cool new minion or a elite skill where I could morph an enemy into a skeleton since ya know mesmers can signet of humility us, would be kinda cool to morph a rangers pet to attack him

So ranger is the one class i have never played… and I find fighting them I get varying results. Most challenging thing I have is how to deal with smokescales easier, I know i’m doing something wrong on this, but they seem to be one of the more powerful pets when fighting 1v1 versus a ranger. I find it challenging having to deal with a pet, and the ranger at the same time with only 1 stab I get knocked back, more if he swap to the bull pig more frequently than not. This is from a melee perspective. I have 0 ranged skills, only a gap closer.

Forget OP, I’m asking for tips to improve my gameplay… if he cared, he would have too long ago.

Any tips?

Hexinx.1872:

So ranger is the one class i have never played… and I find fighting them I get varying results. Most challenging thing I have is how to deal with smokescales easier, I know i’m doing something wrong on this, but they seem to be one of the more powerful pets when fighting 1v1 versus a ranger. I find it challenging having to deal with a pet, and the ranger at the same time with only 1 stab I get knocked back, more if he swap to the bull pig more frequently than not. This is from a melee perspective. I have 0 ranged skills, only a gap closer.

Forget OP, I’m asking for tips to improve my gameplay… if he cared, he would have too long ago.

Any tips?

My tip is to play ranger.

You guys shouldn’t cry “learn to play” whenever someone suggests Druid is unbalanced in a few areas. Delusional Thief players have been using that excuse for a very long time, so it’s lost all credibility. You don’t want to bring yourselves down to their level, do you?

LilBiM.3581:

I have been casually following this trend. First of all I wish to say that I agree with the OP for the following reasons:
1) Commander Gear + Commander Weapons + Boon Duration food + Durability Runes on ranger results in some ridiculous returns on investments for rangers. All of a sudden Zephyr speed is pushing out almost 6 seconds of Quickness, you AND your pet have 25 stacks of might, you have swiftness for 2mins, fury for 1min and a half, regen for 2mins and protection and resistance up practically every time you get bursted and for extreme lengths of time.

2) Staff AA – It is interesting how much damage you can do in a short period of time with a pet swap, 6 seconds of quickness, 25 stacks of might and fury + F2 pet skill, during this burst of yours this skill can not be reflected or destroyed since it is not a projectile. In-fact you have quickness for so long that even if your opponent spammed both dodges they’d still get creamed by 50% of your ‘aim-bot’ damage train. If they stealth it does not matter either since Staff AA is a channeled skill and will continue to cleave great chasms of HP off yourself for several AAs later.

3) Pets with 25 stacks of might, Fury and Swiftness and Regen are not only hard to kill if you’ve spent the last damage rotation creaming the first pet before the Ranger diligently swaps it out for the next pet but it also hits you hard if you don’t focus it down.

4) Ranger Stealth. It seems as though even if you manage to pierce the seemingly ludicrous protection up-time, weather the 25 stacks of might on both it and it’s pet and managed to carve 50% of a Ranger’s HP off they can either 1200 range away with Ancestral Grace into a smoke cloud from their pet or go Celestial Avatar and quickness walk away from you in a diligent direction. Of course if you take Greatsword on ranger you have another option for increasing the distance between you and the enemy, so add satisfying 1100 range on top of that and the scary thing is gone. But that’s not really necessary because of the next thing we’ll talk about…

5) Heal As One. 16s. 7000hp heal. That copies boons and distributes those nice boons you’ve been getting from all those shouts and those traits (Clarion Bond, Zephyr’s Speed, Resounding Timbre and Brutish Seals). Due to it’s low cool-down it’s always up and always ready to turn that modest 12 stacks of might into an Orrian Gorilla of 25 stacks of monstrosity.

So when are all done with it you end up sitting on a nice 3300 power (might + bloodlust stacks), 3300+ armor (ignoring boons), 50% crit chance, +180% crit damage. That’s only on yourself, not your pet. Both you and your pet have access to 25 stacks of might, stability (10 stacks at a time if you so desire), Fury, Regen, Swiftness, (6s on 15s cool-down) Quickness, Protection and Resistance… all by yourself… and all of which you can spread around freely like Santa Claus with Heal As One.

Any-one who thinks that because Ranger ’wasn’t good’ for ‘insert duration of years’ and therefore ‘it is now time to let Rangers have a free run’ is being completely daft to the reality of what this really represents. Not only is this over-powered but it is disrespectful to other players to imply that this is some-how OK. The fact of the matter remains that I have not talked about the passive healing granted by taking Druid and Natural Healing, the fact that you also have access to a massive condition cleanse (this build does not compromise anything to gain damage), nor have I made any comparisons to what was unacceptable for other classes but seems to completely pass through customs (with much heavier luggage mind you) every 4 months when it’s in the company of a Druid.

Second of all:
Let’s stop deflecting by bringing other classes into this discussion. They will get their own spot-light in a discussion labeled precisely for them, all in due time.

Thirdly:
Should we even need to talk about this thing in a group? Do we even need to at this stage?

In essence, what I said originally; the problem is boons. Any boon build is typically seen as pretty overpowered. Celestial ele had/has godawful base stats and traits to back them, but was OP solely because boon stacking as a gameplay mechanic is overpowered.

It’s the same reason scrappers are so strong. Unfortunately, when it comes to counterplay, the application mechanisms in the druid are the best in the game, reducing counterplay pretty massively.

Druid as a profession is whatever. Playing against a berserker or DPS built-druid is typically fair for all parties involved. This roaming sustain bunker thing is out of hand, and is out of hand only because it simply stacks more boons than any configuration that plays cohesively with a damage build.

Swagger.1459:

My tip is to play ranger.

Yeah I know the basis for me to understand how to defeat a profession lies in my knowledge of its weaknesses, which i’d understand more by playing it and feeling the pain so i can exploit it in future. But I only have 1 slot left, and I was hoping to roll an ele again, cause you know ele is fun some days.

I guess I’ll just cringe at those smokescales, pet swaps, and 1500 range and stay away for now.

Clownmug.8357:

You guys shouldn’t cry “learn to play” whenever someone suggests Druid is unbalanced in a few areas. Delusional Thief players have been using that excuse for a very long time, so it’s lost all credibility. You don’t want to bring yourselves down to their level, do you?

umm…. losing to a thief is a l2p issue.
Seriously, there isn’t any OP class atm. You might run into a build that counters yours but anything can be beaten 1v1.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

You guys shouldn’t cry “learn to play” whenever someone suggests Druid is unbalanced in a few areas. Delusional Thief players have been using that excuse for a very long time, so it’s lost all credibility. You don’t want to bring yourselves down to their level, do you?

umm…. losing to a thief is a l2p issue.
Seriously, there isn’t any OP class atm. You might run into a build that counters yours but anything can be beaten 1v1.

Anything can be called a l2p issue when the player defending it doesn’t want to admit its imbalanced. I’m just pointing out that Thieves have been doing it a lot longer than everyone else, so nobody takes it seriously anymore.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Seriously, there isn’t any OP class atm. You might run into a build that counters yours but anything can be beaten 1v1.

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

Clownmug.8357:

Anything can be called a l2p issue when the player defending it doesn’t want to admit its imbalanced. I’m just pointing out that Thieves have been doing it a lot longer than everyone else, so nobody takes it seriously anymore.

Roll a thief and see that the stinky thieves weren’t wrong.
And if you’re hardcore try something else than D/P.
I do agree though that a lot is unbalanced and well – in the end it’s anet who need to see this and as long as they don’t seem to have a clue about their own game (balance wise) all is lost anyway.

ETA: I really trusted them when I came to the forums 2 years ago “well, those people are talking ridiculous stuff but anet won’t listen as that would completely destroy one class” – well.. yes.. and as long as anet aren’t the ones who make smart and fair descisions all this denying and “L2P” will continue.

Straegen.2938:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Seriously, there isn’t any OP class atm. You might run into a build that counters yours but anything can be beaten 1v1.

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

Replace druid in that paragraph with any other bunker and you get pretty much the same result.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Straegen.2938:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Seriously, there isn’t any OP class atm. You might run into a build that counters yours but anything can be beaten 1v1.

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

Replace druid in that paragraph with any other bunker and you get pretty much the same result.

lol, exactly what I was going to say… People can continue to say that being told to learn to play against a bunker anything is not right but those who know this game and classes well also know that it’s a true statement. I’ve played Ranger and now Druid for thousands of hours, and even with the so called best builds I’m one of those people who isn’t that hard to beat compared to some people that really know how to play and also have the action/reaction time that’s quick. I’m just too slow a lot of the time so I don’t do as well as I could. But I come up against all classes and anyone who knows what they’re doing well can beat me, or at least come very close before going down.

As Jim says, the same would go for ANY class that someone knows how to play very well. I will never get tired and never be wrong saying just l2p against whatever it is you want to beat. It can be done. It is NOT an overpowered anything for the most part. sheesh.

This is very hypocritical class able of stealthing, healing to full with mara/zerk trinkets easily, kiting, CCing and dealing damage even if they aren’t really running dps stats.

I fail to understand why anet nerfed elementalists to the ground while buffing this auto-proc AI based cancer. The only thing as bad as druids I can think of is Condi mesmers but again those guys have WAAAAY more counters than druids.

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you are a diamond rank player who mostly roams and duels on vanilla builds that sends “hate mail” (your words) to players who don’t duel the way you think they should duel. You also refuse to get better, and when encountering good players like those Druids on YB, you give up and don’t bother trying.

You assume it’s the build that carries players but it’s not, it’s skill that makes or breaks any profession. Anet is not going to “step in” and make up for lack of talent and lack of competitiveness just for the players, like yourself and the op, who rather blame the profession or build instead of improving your own builds and skill sets.

I don’t know about the vanilla necro you run, but you use a vanilla zerker ranger, not druid, with lb and gs… Using that build you can’t hang with skilled players on meta builds, so you purposefully disadvantage yourself and complain on the forums instead. As mentioned before, you are dueler who assumes encounters need to fit into your box of rules, but wvw doesn’t work that way. Either adapt or don’t, but don’t complain about things that are in your hands and expect Anet to fix it for you.

Because of this thread … I’m almost tempted to use that last slot and play this build. I won’t cause I’ve been with anet long enough to know every time I decide late in the game to play the ‘build’ hot on topic, they stir the pot in the wrong direction (ele’s swirling winds blocking treb shots comes to mind way back, so does the confusion nerf to mesmers when my mes just hit 80 to be legit in wvw)… best not repeat my prior mistakes or I may be labelled. I still say let the rangers have there moment in the sun, been many years they were just the best ‘underwater’ combatants

Hexinx.1872:

Because of this thread … I’m almost tempted to use that last slot and play this build. I won’t cause I’ve been with anet long enough to know every time I decide late in the game to play the ‘build’ hot on topic, they stir the pot in the wrong direction (ele’s swirling winds blocking treb shots comes to mind way back, so does the confusion nerf to mesmers when my mes just hit 80 to be legit in wvw)… best not repeat my prior mistakes or I may be labelled. I still say let the rangers have there moment in the sun, been many years they were just the best ‘underwater’ combatants

Let me think – last balance patch was 1,5 months ago = you have another 2,5 months until anything might be nerfed. And they said themselves that they gave up on balancing stuff (that even before June last year), they just want to shake up the meta every 4 months. Go for Druid. And you just missed the sale for some more char slots.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

druids are agreeing that celestial shadow needs to have something done with it. Druids are not agreeing with peoples thinking that staff should be nerfed because it does “8k dmg” AA and has utility. I guess reading is hard though not that anyone is actually reading anymore and instead just posting.

Justine.6351:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

druids are agreeing that celestial shadow needs to have something done with it. Druids are not agreeing with peoples thinking that staff should be nerfed because it does “8k dmg” AA and has utility. I guess reading is hard though not that anyone is actually reading anymore and instead just posting.

Bolded… “Druids are agreeing” lol… Meanwhile you are highlighting your newly found 12K+ burst spam on rev… But let’s tone down a survival skill that’s gated by astral force lol…

Justine.6351:

Mithrilos.8036:

Bunker Druids, DH perma block invul rotation, Condi Mersmer.

I main warrior rifle and i found signet of power very usefull in teamfight in WvW…
against alls theses block, mirror…insane healing.

Brutal burst end everything ( kitten that warrior endure pain ah ah)

just saying everyone as his own counter, it may not be the one you think.

(ps: curse my bad english :x)

think you might appreciate this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOIaRDzeS9U

Justine.6351:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

druids are agreeing that celestial shadow needs to have something done with it. Druids are not agreeing with peoples thinking that staff should be nerfed because it does “8k dmg” AA and has utility. I guess reading is hard though not that anyone is actually reading anymore and instead just posting.

people having problems with 3 seconds of stealth i think they have a serious l2p issue.

Even with the superspeed is not like they can get far. Ranger doesn’t have a problem with stealth because their access to stealth is conveniently gated, for CS you need first to enter avatar, for LB3 you need first to hit, for smockescale you need to control the pet.

all of them combined can get some stealth up time, but we are talking about the druid doing gymnastics with the keyboard.

The main problem with the bunker druid (and any other bunker class) i think is the durability runes and how protection and resistance is designed.

With all the access all the classes have to protection and resistance after HoT i think would be appropriate is those two boons wouldn’t stack. Not in intensity or duration.

Resistance also should not prevent control conditions to take effect, should work like ranger’s active SoS . If someone feared the druid with durability it should be affected by the fear (not the damage from necro thou). Same for stun, daze or immobilise.

right now is like a passive free jail card for any bunker.

Same i would do for quickness and stability(to stacks in intensity but not duration). Strong boons that make the player immune to effects should be managed and not just mindlessly stacked.

Swagger.1459:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve got to hand it to all the Druid mains in this thread, their determination to defend and disprove is admirable. Faith does often happen to be blind, however. No evidence or facts will change their minds so it’s very much a waste of time to argue.

When ANet steps in, and they will, we’ll see how the discussions change.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you are a diamond rank player who mostly roams and duels on vanilla builds that sends “hate mail” (your words) to players who don’t duel the way you think they should duel. You also refuse to get better, and when encountering good players like those Druids on YB, you give up and don’t bother trying.

You assume it’s the build that carries players but it’s not, it’s skill that makes or breaks any profession. Anet is not going to “step in” and make up for lack of talent and lack of competitiveness just for the players, like yourself and the op, who rather blame the profession or build instead of improving your own builds and skill sets.

I don’t know about the vanilla necro you run, but you use a vanilla zerker ranger, not druid, with lb and gs… Using that build you can’t hang with skilled players on meta builds, so you purposefully disadvantage yourself and complain on the forums instead. As mentioned before, you are dueler who assumes encounters need to fit into your box of rules, but wvw doesn’t work that way. Either adapt or don’t, but don’t complain about things that are in your hands and expect Anet to fix it for you.

I never duel, actually. I enjoy watching them, though.

And I rarely ever send hatemail unless I’m being harassed by someone. I can’t think of the last time I sent a rude message to anyone but it certainly wasn’t any time recently.

I don’t refuse to get better. I can’t get better. I play with one hand because I have motor skill issues as a result of brain trauma in my youth. I’m about as good as I can physically be. I’ve long since accepted that I’m only mediocre at best but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand how to fight things even if I can’t always do it when I’m actually faced with it. As in – I understand it on paper but I’m not always perfect in practice because of poor reflexes. It’s not something I can improve on.

I don’t know where you think you’re getting your facts from but I have never believed anyone should follow “my box of rules.” I’m a scummy player, I bait people to NPC’s and towers, I +1 fights and I use everything I can to my advantage. I would be pretty hypocritical if I expected anyone to play fair.

Also, I play vanilla Necro and Ranger because I prefer to. I find them both more enjoyable and I fully understand that it puts me at a disadvantage. I’m okay with having to put in more effort to achieve a victory if I’m having more fun.

I still stand by the fact that the meta roaming Druid is OP. It takes a degree of skill to play but it is much the same as old school Cele Ele and many people agree. Almost anyone that doesn’t agree is a Druid main.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I never duel, actually. I enjoy watching them, though.

And I rarely ever send hatemail unless I’m being harassed by someone. I can’t think of the last time I sent a rude message to anyone but it certainly wasn’t any time recently.

I don’t refuse to get better. I can’t get better. I play with one hand because I have motor skill issues as a result of brain trauma in my youth. I’m about as good as I can physically be. I’ve long since accepted that I’m only mediocre at best but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand how to fight things even if I can’t always do it when I’m actually faced with it. As in – I understand it on paper but I’m not always perfect in practice because of poor reflexes. It’s not something I can improve on.

I don’t know where you think you’re getting your facts from but I have never believed anyone should follow “my box of rules.” I’m a scummy player, I bait people to NPC’s and towers, I +1 fights and I use everything I can to my advantage. I would be pretty hypocritical if I expected anyone to play fair.

Also, I play vanilla Necro and Ranger because I prefer to. I find them both more enjoyable and I fully understand that it puts me at a disadvantage. I’m okay with having to put in more effort to achieve a victory if I’m having more fun.

I still stand by the fact that the meta roaming Druid is OP. It takes a degree of skill to play but it is much the same as old school Cele Ele and many people agree. Almost anyone that doesn’t agree is a Druid main.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This isn’t strictly a Ranger/Druid problem. Everyone is just innately tanky now and the skill floor is abysmally low.

I still play core Ranger and Necromancer in WvW both small scale/solo and zerging and do just fine against most players, although it is definitely an uphill battle.

Personally, I find it more rewarding to beat players when I’m at a disadvantage. But there are many, many times where I also hate losing based on the build I’m fighting and not based on my skill. For example; I was fighting this Dragonhunter a few days ago who was trying to LOS me (as if he didn’t have enough of an advantage to begin with) and I wound up sending him some hatemail because I was frustrated that he was trying to cheese me when he really didn’t need to. It was my own stupidity for being stubborn but sometimes people just amaze me at how easy they want their wins to be.

Sorry that you’re feeling how you are. I gave up on my Necro for quite some time because I felt I was at way too much of a disadvantage without Reaper until I put a build together that has been working really well. So I can understand how it sometimes feels like the class you’re playing isn’t worth it anymore.

That’s where I got the “dueling” thing from, but second look it said “fighting”…

Point is you run vanilla builds, but you understand the meta has changed and still complain.

That dragon hunter wasn’t playing on your terms, or the way you wanted him/her to play, so you complained and sent a “hate mail” instead…

You are playing a twitch based game with a disability so that’s a huge part of your difficulty, it’s not a difficulty with any particular profession.

You also had difficulty with the skilled Druid player from yb and were blaming the class, not actually thinking that you, and all the players chasing him, were being completely out-skilled.

The op of this thread runs a no toughness daredevil build and gets smacked around sometimes, but instead of changing their build he/she is on the forums complaining about Druid and stuff like warriors running away and resetting fights…

Most complaints I see are l2p and perception issues. If players spent more time working on their builds, experimenting and getting better, most of these “op” clutter threads would be off the forums and we could have rational discussions about profession improvements instead.

Well best of luck to you people.
Saying it now, celestial shadow is going to be moved and/or changed. It’s as inevitable as the nerf to lunar impact was and people were calling me stupid for thinking AFG getting easier would result in CAF nerfs back at HoT launch.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I still stand by the fact that the meta roaming Druid is OP. It takes a degree of skill to play but it is much the same as old school Cele Ele and many people agree. Almost anyone that doesn’t agree is a Druid main.

almost everyone that does agree are players that have 0 experience playing a druid.

I might main a druid but I play every class and I don’t even run the bunker build everyone is complaining about. I’m not defending it because a nerf would affect me in any way. I just understand how it works and I have been trying to share that knowledge with people who are clearly clueless (lol 8k staff auto).

Justine.6351:

Well best of luck to you people.
Saying it now, celestial shadow is going to be moved and/or changed. It’s as inevitable as the nerf to lunar impact was and people were calling me stupid for thinking AFG getting easier would result in CAF nerfs back at HoT launch.

Unfortunately what most people don’t realize is that a nerf to celestial shadow is gonna hurt dps druids more than it will EVER hurt bunker druids. (Not to say that I don’t think your right or that you yourself might not realize this. Also I agree that celestial shadow or druidic clarity are the highest likely targets. Likely involving an icd that makes them usable only every OTHER CA) But they don’t give a kitten about how much damage they actually cause to the class as a whole haha. Most of there “suggestions” Involve gutting a core part of what makes ALL ranger/druid builds viable. And they don’t CARE.

Funny I remember saying almost the exact thing warning people what there demands to nerf turret engineer would do. I didnt even LIKE the build but I knew what was gonna happen. Sure enough they don’t exist in any game mode in any format in any way anymore.

Same thing will end up happening here. Only this time its gonna hit alot more than just one build.

Edit: I hope im wrong though. And that if anet DOES start to aim the nerf bat in one direction or the other they find a way to compensate the builds that get caught in the crossfire. They have actually on occasion done quite well doing just that. I just hope its not a situation where they will want to “wait and see” for three months before applying said counter balancing.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Replace druid in that paragraph with any other bunker and you get pretty much the same result.

Except the Bunker Druid also has solid stealth up time, higher mobility and excellent range. Outside of a Dash/SB Thief they are the fastest thing in the game. If they were ONLY a Bunker, I doubt many would complain.

As bunker as a Guardian, stealths like a Mesmer, travels like a thief and hits well like a Ranger. They have very little counter play when driven by a decent or better player. Good players make them near indestructible outside of a heavily outmatched fight.

Swagger.1459:

-snip-

Ohhhhhhhhh, that guy! It took me a while to recall what you’re talking about but now I remember.

Yes, I don’t deny that I’ve said some rude things in the past and that I’m not a great player. I know who I am and what I’ve said. But I don’t appreciate the semi-personal attacks being used to reinforce your point. It has little relevance to the conversation other than to put me in a negative light. I have a short temper and it doesn’t justify the things I’ve said but most times I apologize if I do get fired up on someone.

I think I’m pretty reasonable with claiming things are OP since I rarely ever do. I have a strong sense of self awareness, I know my limitations. I was blaming that Druids build because it’s everywhere. If something is OP, it tends to overshadow many other builds. Again, take old Cele D/D Ele for example. It had; low stats that were amplified by boonstacking, decent mobility, good cleanse, good damage by maintaining boons, great sustain and good CC. Druid has all of this as well as; more mobility, better cleanse, better sustain and stealth to top it off.

Yes, the YB Druid is quite good. I’ve said as much more than a few times when I’ve seen people fighting him. It doesn’t change the fact that the build is OP. You can still be a good player playing a broken build. I’ve played it, I know how to fight it, but it’s unfun to fight because it feels like I’m fighting the build and not the player. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to improve and everything to do with not wanting to feed his ego. I would have to outplay him a lot harder than he would have to outplay me if I wanted to win.

Straegen.2938:

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

Sometimes people disagree, it’s a fact of life. There’s no need discuss things further since for both of us, these are just opinions. Times like these, I stop myself from continuing a conversation because I don’t see it going anywhere but down. I’m not going to derail a thread to defend myself or to defend things not entirely based on fact. I understand that I’m being stubborn I just hope you understand that my complaints are very unlikely to make a difference. Maybe that will bring you some solace.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Swagger.1459:

-snip-

Ohhhhhhhhh, that guy! It took me a while to recall what you’re talking about but now I remember.

Yes, I don’t deny that I’ve said some rude things in the past and that I’m not a great player. I know who I am and what I’ve said. But I don’t appreciate the semi-personal attacks being used to reinforce your point. It has little relevance to the conversation other than to put me in a negative light. I have a short temper and it doesn’t justify the things I’ve said but most times I apologize if I do get fired up on someone.

I think I’m pretty reasonable with claiming things are OP since I rarely ever do. I have a strong sense of self awareness, I know my limitations. I was blaming that Druids build because it’s everywhere. If something is OP, it tends to overshadow many other builds. Again, take old Cele D/D Ele for example. It had; low stats that were amplified by boonstacking, decent mobility, good cleanse, good damage by maintaining boons, great sustain and good CC. Druid has all of this as well as; more mobility, better cleanse, better sustain and stealth to top it off.

Yes, the YB Druid is quite good. I’ve said as much more than a few times when I’ve seen people fighting him. It doesn’t change the fact that the build is OP. You can still be a good player playing a broken build. I’ve played it, I know how to fight it, but it’s unfun to fight because it feels like I’m fighting the build and not the player. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to improve and everything to do with not wanting to feed his ego. I would have to outplay him a lot harder than he would have to outplay me if I wanted to win.

Straegen.2938:

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

Sometimes people disagree, it’s a fact of life. There’s no need discuss things further since for both of us, these are just opinions. Times like these, I stop myself from continuing a conversation because I don’t see it going anywhere but down. I’m not going to derail a thread to defend myself or to defend things not entirely based on fact. I understand that I’m being stubborn I just hope you understand that my complaints are very unlikely to make a difference. Maybe that will bring you some solace.

You asked where I was getting my facts so I produced it.

I’ve said nothing negative, I’ve responded in a civil way to all points you brought up.

Have you ever beat a Druid build before?

Jim Hunter.6821:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I still stand by the fact that the meta roaming Druid is OP. It takes a degree of skill to play but it is much the same as old school Cele Ele and many people agree. Almost anyone that doesn’t agree is a Druid main.

almost everyone that does agree are players that have 0 experience playing a druid.

I might main a druid but I play every class and I don’t even run the bunker build everyone is complaining about. I’m not defending it because a nerf would affect me in any way. I just understand how it works and I have been trying to share that knowledge with people who are clearly clueless (lol 8k staff auto).

Any proposals on how to shave down the effectiveness of this build without affecting much else? Anyone asking for nerfs to the core of the druid or ranger must not be aware of how the class functions without this build, but this build is certainly an issue when it comes to raw effectiveness.

Like PU condi mesmer, D/D condi daredevil/ghost trapper, and the cele bunker, the sustain BM/NM Druid is OP at one thing, but is so strong in that aspect that it isn’t fun or even particularly fair to play against, and in many people’s eyes, not even fun to play because of it.

So what’s the cut to be for how to properly bring the build into line with the rest of the game’s small-scale performance without affecting other builds?

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

This is very hypocritical class able of stealthing, healing to full with mara/zerk trinkets easily, kiting, CCing and dealing damage even if they aren’t really running dps stats.

I fail to understand why anet nerfed elementalists to the ground while buffing this auto-proc AI based cancer. The only thing as bad as druids I can think of is Condi mesmers but again those guys have WAAAAY more counters than druids.

^ Seems like I wasnt the only one who thought druids are more cancerous to fight than all the condi cheese builds out there.

Tell me which profession can do

- stacks 25 mights by it self and almost permanently (Including easy access to all boons like stability)

- can stealth

- can heal / regen with super short cd

- can kite/range from 1200~1500 range

- can easily clear condis

- great mobility with short cd

- great damage even with bunker/condi spec

- +1 pet does much damage as druid it self

- easy to play with low skill cap/experience

Trust me. None of profession can do all those above in 1 build by it self.

Most of people who play those type of druids act so tough like they are pro and yet they get destroyed when playing other professions

MidoriMarch.8067:

Overpowered isn’t defined as any class/build that has no weakness to another build or builds in a cage match. Overpowered in this context means a significant advantage against most other players of similar skill using other builds.

In this case, the current Bunker Druid builds when played by a decent player are extremely difficult to beat. They are dangerous to non-bunker builds, can stalemate most bunker builds and can typically make it to any door on a map simply by running and stealthing even with multiple players trying to kill them. They also have a fairly shallow degree of difficulty to play.

This is very hypocritical class able of stealthing, healing to full with mara/zerk trinkets easily, kiting, CCing and dealing damage even if they aren’t really running dps stats.

I fail to understand why anet nerfed elementalists to the ground while buffing this auto-proc AI based cancer. The only thing as bad as druids I can think of is Condi mesmers but again those guys have WAAAAY more counters than druids.

^ Seems like I wasnt the only one who thought druids are more cancerous to fight than all the condi cheese builds out there.

Tell me which profession can do

- stacks 25 mights by it self and almost permanently (Including easy access to all boons like stability)

- can stealth

- can heal / regen with super short cd

- can kite/range from 1200~1500 range

- can easily clear condis

- great mobility with short cd

- great damage even with bunker/condi spec

- +1 pet does much damage as druid it self

- easy to play with low skill cap/experience

Trust me. None of profession can do all those above in 1 build by it self.

Most of people who play those type of druids act so tough like they are pro and yet they get destroyed when playing other professions

I’m having a tough time taking your complaints seriously considering you claim to have played a “1000 hours on each profession” but claimed “7-8k Druid staff auto”… Put some toughness in your thief build and keep practicing…

Maybe you can pick up some tips from this thief player…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xATnU4FR6fU

I’m having a tough time taking your complaints seriously considering you claim to have played a “1000 hours on each profession” but claimed “7-8k Druid staff auto”… Put some toughness in your thief build and keep practicing…

Maybe you can pick up some tips from this thief player…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xATnU4FR6fU

Go search Quickcry on twitch and u will see 8k auto attack staff channeling with full cele and dont post with ur low level pve knowledge here

btw i already dueled him few times when i was back in fc and been roaming since when Mugi / Yishis was around and do u even roam m8 or just another PPT blobber acting tough lol

Swagger.1459:

Maybe you can pick up some tips from this thief player…

That’s not particularly relevant to the subject being discussed.

The thief in the video you linked is highly skilled, pulling off crazy amounts of damage by squeezing every last drop out of what his class has to offer.

The issue raised by the OP (and most of the posters) has nothing to do with high level players, it’s what the class affords players with even low to mediocre skill in a particular aspect of the game.

DeceiverX.8361:

Any proposals on how to shave down the effectiveness of this build without affecting much else? Anyone asking for nerfs to the core of the druid or ranger must not be aware of how the class functions without this build, but this build is certainly an issue when it comes to raw effectiveness.

Like PU condi mesmer, D/D condi daredevil/ghost trapper, and the cele bunker, the sustain BM/NM Druid is OP at one thing, but is so strong in that aspect that it isn’t fun or even particularly fair to play against, and in many people’s eyes, not even fun to play because of it.

So what’s the cut to be for how to properly bring the build into line with the rest of the game’s small-scale performance without affecting other builds?

This sums up how I feel about it too. I don’t see a need to nerf the core of ranger/druid, and I actually like druid for the most part, especially in the hands of someone really skilled with it.

As an outsider, I’d proposed earlier in the thread that pet stats be tied to player gear choices to some degree. It makes sense to me, but I admit I’m not qualified to know if that’s actually an appropriate solution.

Alternative ideas (again, as an outsider), include increasing the cooldown on Celestial Form, tweaking Celestial shadow (removing superspeed, adding an ICD of 15s or more, etc), tweaking Ancestral Grace (increase the cd, decrease the speed or distance travelled, etc), reduce the heal output on Druid skills, or bring the smokescale/bristleback more inline with the other pets (though iirc they just buffed some of the other pets, so maybe Anet’s thinking the other pets are underpowered, not sure).

Seems to me that none of the above breaks the druid, but might mitigate some of the problem. To be clear, I’m not proposing that all of those be applied to the druid, only that there seems to be room to take a scalpel to this instead of a sledgehammer.

This all really cracks me up. Ranger/Druid … About the most rejected class by zergs but at least good for roaming apparently and you want nerfs…

Balthazzarr.1349:

This all really cracks me up. Ranger/Druid … About the most rejected class by zergs but at least good for roaming apparently and you want nerfs…

Why wouldn’t you favour buffs to improve their value in zergs while supporting specific nerfs that deal with the specific issue identified as a problem in small scale wvw?

Balthazzarr.1349:

This all really cracks me up. Ranger/Druid … About the most rejected class by zergs but at least good for roaming apparently and you want nerfs…

They’ve done this since launch. Ranger spirits, nerfed to the ground due to PvPers. The power of Ranger pets, nerfed to the ground due to PvPers. Hell, the Ranger TRAPS were nerfed due to PvPers (before being brought back up). Druid heals, nerfed due to PvPers. People like them are what cause unnecessary nerfs, and it’s really annoying.

Choppy.4183:

Balthazzarr.1349:

This all really cracks me up. Ranger/Druid … About the most rejected class by zergs but at least good for roaming apparently and you want nerfs…

Why wouldn’t you favour buffs to improve their value in zergs while supporting specific nerfs that deal with the specific issue identified as a problem in small scale wvw?

Because Anet rarely buffs Rangers, and their “buffs” are usually lackluster and included with an unnecessary nerf elsewhere.