Guild Wars 2

So ever since EOTM has come out, our lower tier wvwvw server has been so empty while I can always find a zerg and possibly several over-flows of EOTM.

Has anyone else noticed a complete disappearance of WvW players on their server too?

People that preffer EOTM over regular wvw either:

1 – Don’t care about WvW

2 – Just want easy loot/karma

3 – Are farming to transfer out of the server they are.

EotM is just superior game mode.

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

Agreed.

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

+1

The Megaserver aspect of EoTm and the low likelihood of being hopelessly
outnumbered are what makes it better.

nekretaal.6485:

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

+1

The Megaserver aspect of EoTm and the low likelihood of being hopelessly
outnumbered are what makes it better.

We need that on regular WvWvW and make that AvAvA.

I think eotm has also become THE method of leveling alts.

yanniell.1236:

nekretaal.6485:

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

+1

The Megaserver aspect of EoTm and the low likelihood of being hopelessly
outnumbered are what makes it better.

We need that on regular WvWvW and make that AvAvA.

Blech no thank you – kindly keep the garbage that is mega server away from my preferred game mode. Ask for another map for EoTm and I would be fine with them spending development time on it but I like my server identity.

yanniell.1236:

nekretaal.6485:

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

+1

The Megaserver aspect of EoTm and the low likelihood of being hopelessly
outnumbered are what makes it better.

We need that on regular WvWvW and make that AvAvA.

No thank you. There is a reason that EotM is for PvE players. Ask someone to defend something there. It is intended as a karma train. Nothing more, nothing less.

style.6173:

No thank you. There is a reason that EotM is for PvE players. Ask someone to defend something there. It is intended as a karma train. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just because the players turned it on a giant karma train, doesn’t mean it was designed for that…

style.6173:

yanniell.1236:

nekretaal.6485:

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

+1

The Megaserver aspect of EoTm and the low likelihood of being hopelessly
outnumbered are what makes it better.

We need that on regular WvWvW and make that AvAvA.

No thank you. There is a reason that EotM is for PvE players. Ask someone to defend something there. It is intended as a karma train. Nothing more, nothing less.

Lots of reasons, mostly because anet made that a pve map with better rewards than regular wvw. That’s not how it would work on an AvAvA system.

Wtf AvAvA mean anyway?

It’s a shame EotM has turned into karmafest, it is actually a very good map to fight and defend on when you can get people to do it.

I would love to see the keeps in EotM transferred to the WvW maps to replace Garrison, it would pretty much kill ninja capping in off peak over night.

Occasionally you can actually get a good commander who sees the bigger picture and uses the map to his/her advantage. One such person was Anton von Holbrek, a German commander last week.

I admit the first few times I went there was simply to gain some quick ranks but the more I play the more I can see the potential for a really interesting battleground.

On a ‘Healthy and Safety’ issue, there needs to be more fences and handrails. It’s far too easy to fall off cliffs, causing serious injury and death

I cannot believe that so many people are falling into Junkpile’s troll messages.

The reason why people play EotM is the rewards. The WvWvW and EotM should have similar level rewards.

The EotM map itself is full of so bad game design mistakes that I am going to use it as an example at my university on game design course, how NOT to design a 3-way multiplayer map. The original WvWvW maps are by far better game design in every respect. EotM belongs to the same pile of failed map designs which should be just given delete button, together with Skyhammer and the atrocity called ruins in the borderlands.

People in these forums who tell that EotM are usually playing on the green side and rarely ever on the blue side. The different colors are heavily imbalanced. I think all the comments from the green server players should be just ignored.

Why players who haven’t mastered EotM come here and comment some kitten? You guys probably haven’t even done some say it’s your specialty ach.

Jeknar.6184:

Wtf AvAvA mean anyway?

Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance
If implemented correctly, it would be a great way to preserve server pride and communities while providing a dynamically-balanced competitive environment.

Instead, we got Potato of the Mists.

Jeknar.6184:

style.6173:

No thank you. There is a reason that EotM is for PvE players. Ask someone to defend something there. It is intended as a karma train. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just because the players turned it on a giant karma train, doesn’t mean it was designed for that…

Correct. It was designed as ANET’s way to show the WvW community their vision of the future. ANET expected that everyone would love this map and want the new features integrated into regular WvW. They were wrong.

Eotm is fun no bossy annoying people telling you what to do, its relaxing.

To the OP, sometimes you can find a chance for more balanced fights in EoTM then you might in the borderlands. It’s varied landscape also allows for differing types of fights and seems to break people up more so you have good odds of finding soloers and groups that you might not be finding in your borderlands. You also need to actually pay attention to your placement in a fight. Bottlenecks and differing levels of the map give you different options to choose from in a fight versus group, stack, charge. Have seen groups turn back zergs of 40+ with well placed siege when defending Red. Have also seen more open field fights in Edge then in the borderlands at times. It does need to be more closely knit into regular WvW and add to the server’s points, but there are issues there that need to be worked out. And yes, some people do defend in EoTM. Downside is, people do use it to karma farm, but that’s also an issue for the BLs. Both the Borderlands and EoTM need some love & attention, but that’s a bigger conversation versus the OP’s question. Good hunting!

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Jeknar.6184:

Wtf AvAvA mean anyway?

Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance
If implemented correctly, it would be a great way to preserve server pride and communities while providing a dynamically-balanced competitive environment.

Instead, we got Potato of the Mists.

Here a possible way of doing AvAvA:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Collaborative-Development-Edge-of-the-Mists/3695388

Jeknar.6184:

Just because the players turned it on a giant karma train, doesn’t mean it was designed for that…

It probably wasn’t intentionally designed but the overall design lends itself to this style. The long runs, easy falling deaths, stronger veteran/champions and multiple physical barriers that must be knocked down to progress discourage skirmish and roaming which in turn focuses players into zergs.

For the last year, or more, players have been steadily xferring up in tiers to find “better wvw”. (Better roaming, fights, ppt, whatever “better” may be). What you are left with (the lower you go in tiers) is:

-(10-15%)A handful of people that are diehard/tryhard for their server
-(60%) PVX’ers that probably lean a bit more to PVE, and only fairweather the matchups where the k-trains are bountiful, otherwise they go EoTM.
-(the rest) People that care nothing about EoTM, but choose to stay on lower tier servers to run around finding very small fights and spend the rest of their time in EoTM if they wanna zerg.

In short, if you server is bad, most of your fairweathers will spend the week in PVE and/or EoTM.

Sentenced to 10 days of EotM due to silly server transfer rules. Omg…get me outa here…pve maybe..yesss..

Real comment last Saturday after a wvw Commander tagged up, sieged the main keep and defended it against the K-train.

“….but, but, Commander…we wa-aannnt the keep to fall. So we can take it ba-aackkk…we need dragoniite…”

Dayra.7405:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Jeknar.6184:

Wtf AvAvA mean anyway?

Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance
If implemented correctly, it would be a great way to preserve server pride and communities while providing a dynamically-balanced competitive environment.

Instead, we got Potato of the Mists.

Here a possible way of doing AvAvA:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Collaborative-Development-Edge-of-the-Mists/3695388

Was not intrested then. Still not intrested now.

real talk, the rewards are infinitely better in eotm.

im a solo/small group roamer that border patrols mainly.
leveling an alt from 20 to 80 in eotm i earned more wexp and badges than i would have in a month of roaming. not to mention the fact that i was leveling at a rate of 5 levels per hour in eotm.

beyond the hardcore wvw community why in the hell would anyone enter actual wvw matchups over eotm when not only are you gaining more wexp and levels there but you are getting loot rewards akin to those of a FGS train?

the pve crowd account for a good deal of any pug zerg, without them ofc actual wvw is suffering.

While I tend to agree with much of the sentiment behind Lorelei’s post. ( we differ a tad on detail) IMHO, we also need to address the villains of the piece;

Those who make “Voice” such a toxic location that others do not want to be in there, and Those who are incapable of encouraging others.

People must gain some sort of satisfaction from their play hours or they will not play. EOTM meets that requirement for many.

Lower Tier Servers can have as little as 1-3 defenders on a map, so jumping to eotm means a great opportunity to play with many more people. The PPT also gets less emphasis so everyone walks away from the 3 hour matches feeling like winners as long as they had a great playing experience.

The definition of a great playing experience varies from each person . Some are contented to farm a few WXP levels, some level their alts while others hunt down other players for sport. A few play eotm as tower defence and challenge themselves to how long they can hold their keeps against 50 man zergs. All are viable playing styles and the most typical one is the " Queensdale " karma train style.

The devs have made a good map in eotm and a 3 hour mini WvW game. It is the players that determines how it is played. One impressive commander is zerg karma train killer " Xushin " that leads outmanned pugs to kill enemy zergs the whole game till they all logout or change maps.

Lack of community in EoTM made it into a karma train. Anet should learn something from this (but won’t).

So you’re telling me that just because someone dumped 100g on a commander tag I need to obey this guy? That anything else that I do if I’m not with him is worthless?

Look friend, I don’t play the game to have some random dude barking orders on my ear and raging when things go bad. If I wanted that I would work overtime... I play the game to relax and have fun…

Just because I’m not taking part of the zergfest it doesn’t mean I’m not helping my server. I’m out there (solo or with friends) taking camps/towers, watching and reporting enemy movement, getting some points by killing dolyaks/sentries/roamers, etc… Saying that I “don’t fight for the cause” just because I’m not following the blue-dorito-man sounds to me like a cry of someone that think WvW is all about mindless PvDoor with 100man map-blobs. And I belive I’m not the only one that do this…

WvW has flaws, but what make it worse are the player’s attitudes…

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

I beg to disagree hugely.

EOTM is EASY mode and a travesty in a competitive “game”.

Separate EOTM from WvW – it’s destroying community and interest in the REAL WvW.

Give it to the PvE community – they are the zerg specialists far more than any WvW server.

atheria.2837:

Junkpile.7439:

EotM is just superior game mode.

I beg to disagree hugely.

EOTM is EASY mode and a travesty in a competitive “game”.

Questionable… Regular WvW would be just as easy, if it was crowded with uplevels and people that hardly do PvP at all and are there just for the rewards that PvDoor offer… Since that’s what you find in EotM, that make the game mode look easy.

EotM have some very interesting mechanics and I’m inclined to belive that if all three teams played it serious, it would become a great map, maybe even better than regular wvw.

Honestly I’ve seen a more toxic environment in EotM than the regular servers, though that might be server specific. Comments like “This commander is kittening trash”, “If you want to defend then you can go back to the borderlands”, or as a person posted a few hours ago in map chat “no our commander has torets or some kitten. He keeps pulling off and defending stuff”.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Honestly I’ve seen a more toxic environment in EotM than the regular servers, though that might be server specific. Comments like “This commander is kittening trash”, “If you want to defend then you can go back to the borderlands”, or as a person posted a few hours ago in map chat “no our commander has torets or some kitten. He keeps pulling off and defending stuff”.

Yeah, there are toxic players on EotM aswell, but the chances that you’ll ever see these people again are small… However on your server WvW you’ll keep seeing the same people over and over.

Like I said, the problem are the players. Not Regular WvW or EotM.

Well as some people here say, EotM is for the PvE people, it’s a disgrace for any PvP player, BURN IT DOWNNNNNNNNNN!

EotM really highlighted the WvW split. In WvW there seemed to exist a bimodal distribution of play style; by and large, there were fighters (to include roamers, scouts, et al) and there were zergers with few playing in both modes. EotM will continually steal the zergers from low tier server WvW.

Where does that leave the low tier server fighters? sPVP? For low tier servers, sPVP may become the answer for players unable to pay for the trade.

Jeknar.6184:

So you’re telling me that just because someone dumped 100g on a commander tag I need to obey this guy? That anything else that I do if I’m not with him is worthless?

Look friend, I don’t play the game to have some random dude barking orders on my ear and raging when things go bad. If I wanted that I would work overtime... I play the game to relax and have fun…

Just because I’m not taking part of the zergfest it doesn’t mean I’m not helping my server. I’m out there (solo or with friends) taking camps/towers, watching and reporting enemy movement, getting some points by killing dolyaks/sentries/roamers, etc… Saying that I “don’t fight for the cause” just because I’m not following the blue-dorito-man sounds to me like a cry of someone that think WvW is all about mindless PvDoor with 100man map-blobs. And I belive I’m not the only one that do this…

WvW has flaws, but what make it worse are the player’s attitudes…

I’m with you – we have a “commander” like this on our server. Oh, the tears and rage when he’s not slavishly adhered to. And Balthazar forbid you should dare to say anything which may imply that he missed a detail or didn’t do something important – tantrums and stamping of feet.

Oh, and hides in a guild Vent rather than on the community TS when trying to command. Firmly believes that anyone with a tag up must be respected, listened to, obeyed, and never questioned.

Fewer Queegs and more Arthur Curries, I say!

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lack of community in EoTM made it into a karma train. Anet should learn something from this (but won’t).

You said it before I could.

All of you people who have been pushing for servers to be abolished, you need to take a good hard look at EotM. How will you like it when your favorite game mode turns into that…

It is really amazing actually. No one told everyone in GW2, “Hey guys, here is this plan to farm EotM for craploads of karma and XP, all you have to do is stop fighting each other.” It happened naturally and organically. Now there is NOTHING LEFT of the original purpose of EotM.

Do you really want the rest of WvW to go this way? Yes WvW has problems now, but that does not mean that every idea to change it will change it for the better. Every WvWer should learn from what happened to EotM, and defend server communities to the bitter end.

titanlectro.5029:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lack of community in EoTM made it into a karma train. Anet should learn something from this (but won’t).

You said it before I could.

All of you people who have been pushing for servers to be abolished, you need to take a good hard look at EotM. How will you like it when your favorite game mode turns into that…

It is really amazing actually. No one told everyone in GW2, “Hey guys, here is this plan to farm EotM for craploads of karma and XP, all you have to do is stop fighting each other.” It happened naturally and organically. Now there is NOTHING LEFT of the original purpose of EotM.

Do you really want the rest of WvW to go this way? Yes WvW has problems now, but that does not mean that every idea to change it will change it for the better. Every WvWer should learn from what happened to EotM, and defend server communities to the bitter end.

Players want to abolish servers as a step to achieve a better WvW balance. As a player who has spent the vast majority of my WvW time on a losing server, one grows tired of the entering WvW to find all your towers are paper and all the enemies towers T3. I can only remember a couple of matches where I looked back on a match and felt that it was great. Sure, there’s been good raids and battles, but rarely has there been a good WvW match.

As early as Sundays, I can see that I’ll be doing the same thing over and over again, just like I’ve done the past year. That’s why EoTM is looking better and better to me. I’ve even used a different Necro build in EoTM, fearing zerglings off the cliffs.

Changing EoTM from karma train to competitive is a lot easier than changing WvW from imbalanced to balanced

Swamurabi.7890:

Changing EoTM from karma train to competitive is a lot easier than changing WvW from imbalanced to balanced

This… I think. K-train happens in WvW, but why isn’t it as pronounced?

It wouldn’t take more than a small cadre (10-15%) of the EotM pop becoming roamers/defenders, and EotM would be changed. The little zerglings could be (have been) easily pushed backed with well placed siege and defenders. Moreover, zerlings can’t cap what’s already been capped by a small roaming band.

Raf.1078:

Sentenced to 10 days of EotM due to silly server transfer rules. Omg…get me outa here…pve maybe..yesss..

Real comment last Saturday after a wvw Commander tagged up, sieged the main keep and defended it against the K-train.

“….but, but, Commander…we wa-aannnt the keep to fall. So we can take it ba-aackkk…we need dragoniite…”

Hear this all the time, just makes me defend more and build more siege. Typically once people see someone defending, more join in if you announce. Now granted as stated above the best groups do both.

Edit: fixed quote end tag in wrong spot

abclemons.7093:

This… I think. K-train happens in WvW, but why isn’t it as pronounced?

The karma train isn’t as rewarding in normal WvW.

Server pride also plays a part. We have to defend stuff or the other servers start cracking wise about our mommas. This isn’t an issue in EoTM because it’s always Someone Else’s Problem. There is no team in EoTM, just a swarm of individuals.

The maps are big and getting around is confusing and frustrating. Much easier to just follow the blue Doritos.

It’s easy to get lost and get ganked, and it’s very hard to react to an attack in a timely fashion. Even finding your way from the spawn into your own keep can be a problem for new players.

They need to add tracks to EOTM, like spvp has, so we can unlock more ugly skins, and collect 20000 more empyreal fragments.

Eotm is fun with people from your server grouped up. It’s a change from the stagnant WvW scenario based on spending money, and hilariously ill-designed leagues.

Eotm is a PvE map, did some people not get the memo?

Realist.5812:

Eotm is a PvE map, did some people not get the memo?

No, I didn’t… Please show me where Arena Net said it.

Realist.5812:

Eotm is a PvE map, did some people not get the memo?

all Wvw is PVE – atleast hey are played same way

zerg runs in enemy zerg and aoe spam button#1

when someone wanna call this PVP than i call him silly

wvw is designed so casuals and bad players can feel like pros

@romek: we all know now, that something happens in WvW that let you hate it now.
But your description fits whole gw2, it’s designed to feel pro for hitting 1, and every added boss event increases this. Second why do you have Elona in your signature? Servers like Elona do not exist outside WvW anymore and you stopped playing WvW. What let you keep the name of a WvW team in your signature, if you hate wvw? Elona doesn’t exist in PvE, EotM nor in sPvP.

Dayra.7405:

@romek: we all know now, that something happens in WvW that let you hate it now.
But your description fits whole gw2, it’s designed to feel pro for hitting 1, and every added boss event increases this. Second why do you have Elona in your signature? Servers like Elona do not exist outside WvW anymore and you stopped playing WvW. What let you keep the name of a WvW team in your signature, if you hate wvw? Elona doesn’t exist in PvE, EotM nor in sPvP.

1. yes(except spvp) and i just anwered the QQ bout PVEers farm in eotm karma and PVEers are soooo bad and …….. theirs no difference between PVEers or WVWers, its all the same and when i am in eotm most guildtags i see are WVW guilds^^

2. my signature has nothing to do with thema and jsut show you have nothing to say – just alot words to say something but at the end say nothing -ey?
but to answer – i was to lazy to change it and dont saw a point to even care bout a signature. I made it some weeks after release and forgot about. Why care?

Romek.4201:

wvw is designed so casuals and bad players can feel like pros

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/541/920/9d8.jpg