Guild Wars 2

DevonCarver.5370:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It has come to the point that as WvW has not received real updates since launch that we ourselves would not mind doing the testing.

I can appreciate that many people don’t like EotM, but don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates. WvW has added a great deal of content and rewards over just the last calendar year.

Hopefully you will find more you like in future updates and we’ll continue to add to the game.

Was pretty much the most recent thing ANet has had to say on EotM.

I took a peek into EOTM this week. The side I was on (red) was heavily outnumbered by green. It resulted in the red zerg getting wiped and unable to karma run.

I was a bit surprised to see people raging about the mean green zerg flipping everything and spawn camping people that were obviously running to their death. Someone also complained how they came here to level, and were now having their time wasted. To me, it was all fair and legit – if people didn’t want to be spawn camped, they shouldn’t go running straight into the jaws of death one by one.

EOTM is not wvw. At all. It’s territorial karma train. And when people don’t get their territory, they complain about it. People feel privileged to get their train, as if its the purpose of EOTM.

I left and did something else. I’m not a lemming giving out free bags to spawn campers. I went back to the real WvW.

In EotM map chat is half of fun.

Why even bothering to defend though, honestly, it doesn’t change the server scores.

Charak.9761:

Why even bothering to defend though, honestly, it doesn’t change the server scores.

Nobody care about score anyways, but it’s fun when enemy players don’t get level, karma and loot. If some big blob take keep/tower and i can’t stop them i at least try to drop one upscaled down. He will miss a cap and rage.

I’m a lvl 80 thief with all the karma in the world.
The only reason I play EotM is the challenge as a red side, to beat the green zerg/score.

I usually just train as a commander untill we get wiped. That way the complainers (karma farmers) also feel the urge to kick the green sides but.

After that point, and after recapping our keep. I proceed to try and outplay green guilds and zergs the best I can. With and without siege. And I get a lot of positive mails from people who actually like defending.

Most of the hardcore farmers must’ve left by then.

If you check the release pages or stream on twitch from before the map release, you will see/hear about EoTM being designed as a map where WvW players can go and have fun playing WvW while waiting in queues to join one of the standard maps.
However, because the queues exist only during the evenings in the most populated servers and/or at start of the WvW Seasons, the purpose of the map has been changed by the players themselves and you know in what way.

Now, what is the reason for this?
Lack of people interest in WvW outside of seasons?
No real feeling of being rewarded, except 2 times (actually 1 time) during the season?
No improvements/updates to the game mode (we got WvW masterys and new ruins in last 2 years)?
People leaving because bored of stagnancy?
Problems with balancing the matches?

The old veterans will still play WvW just because this is the only thing in the game that makes them enjoy playing the game – massive Realm versus Realm fights, but even that cannot keep a person in the game forever no matter how dedicated you are.

A word about Megaserver now:
I wish we did not have this system enabled in the major cities.
Reason is simple and very valid:
No more feeling of a server community – you get mixed with ppl from any servers in Lions Arch and other cities/HoTM. How can you even organize your own people if you cannot find them? The system is supposed to group you with the people you most often play with. That is kinda working, but you also get grouped with tons of other random ppl from different servers. I see few familiar nicks every time I’m in LA, but I don’t know anymore if these are ppl from my server or just random guy from “enemy WvW” server.
Of course – if your server has a Team Speak server, you can organize a bit. Problem is – how do you get ppl to join your TS and then help you in WvW if you can’t really find them? Standing in LA shouting “People of XXXXX, please join ts.address.com, we need help ……” doesn’t sound like it’s gonna work.

I understand the need to put ppl from empty maps on different servers into 1 map, to make it feel like it’s not empty and you have someone to play with again.
However, if possible – it would be great to have back the old server based Lions Arch at least, as a place to get “your people” together.

heatherlea.7186:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mBkW2PM0sa

This is where they circumvent where you can’t join people who are in different colors than your own. Also they discuss where a few members of their zerg tagged up (But changed guild rep) to lead the zerg to legendary defenders to troll them.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0prC9HoVQqI More discussion of how to lead your zerg to wipe to legendary defenders, and if they keep doing it people will stop following them.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0RUbUXk07Ov Here is where they discuss wiping the zerg because a commander they don’t like is running their side.

This is exactly the sort of thing that ruins Edge of the Mists. Interesting discussion going on in reddit about the antics of some of these griefers:

http://redd.it/2b5uib

Hey man, this is an old statement from anet, before EotM but still interesting to see as I think their opinion/view is still the same.

the part about k-training begins at 22.50min.
Hope this is of any help,
Cheers,

Is this even a something, really? Troll’s exist in MMO’s. It’s simply a matter of fact that there are jaded individuals whom do not like others having anything. No matter if it’s Karma, Gold, Exp, or FUN! They will seek out any large group of players and try their best to derail, disrupt, and destroy this group. And, I’m sorry if you don’t like to hear this but, Anet should not empower trolling.

For the OP, if EotM seems different it’s because WvW seasons ended. Causing an influx of WvW players into EotM. It coincides with you timeline. So yeah, extra players used to defending is what caused the downturn.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I will just add that while many people would “oh shame on you” the idea of using gems to buy levels, we already do that. You can buy BL keys, to open BL chests, which may contain an experience scroll. I would simply suggest to take the chance part out and just let us buy the things.

Or just let us buy tomes of experience with skill points. I’d gladly pay 10-20 skill points per tome to level my most unplayed alts, and it would give me something non-legendary and non-siege related to do with them.

Running a train in EotM is perilous by design. It’s a WvW zone. In a game that makes as huge of a distinction between pvp and pve as GW2 does, any place designated as pvp is both intended and used as a pvp area.

It’s the same risks run by people trying to run GvGs on WvW maps. If somebody ganks you guys, sorry? But that’s the nature of the map.

While ive never noticed queue times to be an issue on T1 (aside from week 1 of seasons) to say my ONLY option for a wvw map was edge map, I must say edge map is nice way to take a day off from real wvw in a way that doesnt involve grinding pve kitten AI.
Without calling them out specifically on the forums here, there is definitely a particular eotm-based guild that is making eotm THE JOKE IT IS among more serious wvw guilds/groups. Its particularly annoying when commanding and hunting down enemy zergs while educating new players the basics of zerg on zerg fighting and fighting alongside talented players from low-tier servers looking for bigger fights , to have some of these punks begin trolling in the true sense of the word. Some of us do not need karma or wxp anymore… if i want to rip entire karma train to shreds with sup ac and full masteries as a solo defender; or lead 50 on 50 battle in the expertly crafted terrain and tilesets (imo), that does not make me a bannable/reportable troll offender. These kids rage, its pathetic. Burning oil master = precursors, baby. I have killed EVERY SINGLE PERSON that is in said guild. As far as the map itself, my only suggestion would be to revamp the green keep buff or create another platform above the aetherblades with no buffs… would help with GvG scene to find a spot when obsidian sanctum is in use and windmill is queued/bloodlusted. GvG scene can also meet up with various servers for better overall player interaction.

Treebeard The Swift.9620:

The thing is, i’ve been in quite a few eotm maps with [eotm] commanders and if the zerg rocks up to blue keep and its defended they 99% of the time say “it’s defended guys, skip it and roll on”.
Theres no reason to try and take blue keep if its being defended, none, nada, zip.
If you want to sit there on a sup ac for 3 hours going “omg, omg, i’m going to get those uplevels, i’m gonna kitten them so hard” and then the zerg rocks up and goes “hmmm, nope. lets just wander on” of course you’re going to be upset.
I understand you want to play that way, but the other 99% of us don’t want to be ac fodder and will move on, yep, you defend that, we’ll flip the map (which also gives more points in wvw btw and is a solid tactic – who knew?).
Are you also seriously claiming that that guild has commanders on all maps on all shards for every team?… seriously?
as i said in the last troll post:
who won in the shard i was in last tuesday at 9am? how many points? if its a serious match where are the records?
if a zergbusting guild like the rather amazing and incredible [TA] guild rocks up and starts easily destroying every one in seconds but caps nothing – are they “matchfixing”? are they playing as intended? do you want them removed from the game for not playing your way?
This is attempt #2 at trying to convince everyone that the eotm map is the same as queensdale train. Nice attempt but i’ve had great fights, amazing ambushes, heroic defenses and made quite a few friends. If it gets removed because of a handful of petty people it will be a great loss to a lot of people.
but, that may be what the op wants.

Commanders know they have to give-up when keep is heavily defended by AC (especially blue keep since there’s no space to run) because uplevels are so worthless and overwhelming in EOTM. Those trashes will just melt in 2 seconds if one ~ two people start to ACing in narrow places. (And sadly the rate is like 90% so you can’t simply go without them) Retreating is actually a wise choice on the commander’s part.

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

Cam Ron.4170:

I love the EotM karma train. I main thief, and run around preying on the tail-ends of karma trains. The best is seeing them RAGE. I’d rather see salty text from the guy I just assassinated than see an exotic drop. I gain so much pleasure from kittening people off who take EotM for granted and think its free Karma….. Not when I’m around. I’ll kill your kitten before your train even realizes you’ve been attacked.

Basically, it insults my ego as a roaming thief that players, especially up-level, think they can run around getting free WXP without fear of me killing them. It’s more fun killing people that don’t expect/dont feel they deserve to die

As a main D/D roaming thief, I have to say: wow, great skill, you can beat upleveled newbies in eotm. Congratulation.
Guys like you are the only reason I set foot in eotm with a level 80 toon. It’s not even totally about stopping your grieving, it’s more about showing you how utterly terribad you are.

MarauderShields.6830:

Cam Ron.4170:

I love the EotM karma train. I main thief, and run around preying on the tail-ends of karma trains. The best is seeing them RAGE. I’d rather see salty text from the guy I just assassinated than see an exotic drop. I gain so much pleasure from kittening people off who take EotM for granted and think its free Karma….. Not when I’m around. I’ll kill your kitten before your train even realizes you’ve been attacked.

Basically, it insults my ego as a roaming thief that players, especially up-level, think they can run around getting free WXP without fear of me killing them. It’s more fun killing people that don’t expect/dont feel they deserve to die

As a main D/D roaming thief, I have to say: wow, great skill, you can beat upleveled newbies in eotm. Congratulation.
Guys like you are the only reason I set foot in eotm with a level 80 toon. It’s not even totally about stopping your grieving, it’s more about showing you how utterly terribad you are.

Several things great about eotm to a T1 server:
1. You don’t have to deal with BG zerg blob. BG nvr roams, they only walk in 5~50, so it’s very hard to find roamers to have a fair fight to begin with, plus too many places for them to hide inside. In contrast, in eotm, I can finally have my fair 1 v 1 against lv80 roamers, or catch up with 2~3 running-like-girl uplevels and take down 2~3 of them at once.

So far I haven’t lost a single fight 1 on 1 in eotm ever before.
Oh, btw, I nvr use eotm as a training ground before, always set foot as lv80. People who try to defend the worthless uplevel communities are the plague of EOTM.

I did see roamer thief yesterday in EotM. I did flee laika boss.

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Aomine.5012:

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Wiping uplevels is boring. You don’t even get much loot because they die so fast that you can barely tag them. The loot you do get is light and small loot bags a lot of the time. And if you wipe their zerg a few times, they just leave to find a better overflow or go pve.

Blix.8021:

Aomine.5012:

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Wiping uplevels is boring. You don’t even get much loot because they die so fast that you can barely tag them. The loot you do get is light and small loot bags a lot of the time. And if you wipe their zerg a few times, they just leave to find a better overflow or go pve.

If we were in it for the loot, we’d go to touch ourselves in dRy ToP or join a skip tazza SE p1 box farm party.

We’d do it to try and get Anet’s attention and to fight against the karma train mentality of the game.

nearlight.3064:

Blix.8021:

Aomine.5012:

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Wiping uplevels is boring. You don’t even get much loot because they die so fast that you can barely tag them. The loot you do get is light and small loot bags a lot of the time. And if you wipe their zerg a few times, they just leave to find a better overflow or go pve.

If we were in it for the loot, we’d go to touch ourselves in dRy ToP or join a skip tazza SE p1 box farm party.

We’d do it to try and get Anet’s attention and to fight against the karma train mentality of the game.

I read this as: “Of course it’s boring and the rewards suck. That’s why I’ll type inspiring sounding words to get others to do it for me.” How honorable…

If you were in fact serious, though, please hurry up then. I’m ready for ANet to end the use of karma as we know it and meaningfully attach it (and dragonite) to something more skill based than time based.

DaveGan.8065:

nearlight.3064:

Blix.8021:

Aomine.5012:

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Wiping uplevels is boring. You don’t even get much loot because they die so fast that you can barely tag them. The loot you do get is light and small loot bags a lot of the time. And if you wipe their zerg a few times, they just leave to find a better overflow or go pve.

If we were in it for the loot, we’d go to touch ourselves in dRy ToP or join a skip tazza SE p1 box farm party.

We’d do it to try and get Anet’s attention and to fight against the karma train mentality of the game.

I read this as: “Of course it’s boring and the rewards suck. That’s why I’ll type inspiring sounding words to get others to do it for me.” How honorable…

If you were in fact serious, though, please hurry up then. I’m ready for ANet to end the use of karma as we know it and meaningfully attach it (and dragonite) to something more skill based than time based.

Well my guild did have an EotM pug grinder night right before we changed servers. But in order for this to truly be effective we’d need to get multiple guilds involved with it, and I feel like you do have a legitimate point, it is kind of a waste of time, but karma train hunting could be a fun diversion if normal WvW ever became unplayable (ie we tried to Eotm pug grind again during the DDOS attack when most guilds in normal WvW gave up, but we didn’t really find anything there anyways).

nearlight.3064:

Blix.8021:

Aomine.5012:

nearlight.3064:

The solution is simple OP. Get everyone’s WvW guilds together and WIPE THE KARMA TRAINS!

That’s actually a great solution.
You can counter the entire worthless uplevels zerg with around 10 dedicated wvw people. Even condition spec works greatly in EOTM!

Also, it takes one well placed AC to drive back an entire EOTM zerg from the keep

Wiping uplevels is boring. You don’t even get much loot because they die so fast that you can barely tag them. The loot you do get is light and small loot bags a lot of the time. And if you wipe their zerg a few times, they just leave to find a better overflow or go pve.

If we were in it for the loot, we’d go to touch ourselves in dRy ToP or join a skip tazza SE p1 box farm party.

We’d do it to try and get Anet’s attention and to fight against the karma train mentality of the game.

Not everyone that goes there to fight/defend is there for a message to ANet though. For some it’s because of dead timezones or simply a change in scenery from the regular WvW maps.

For those of you fighting on EoTM…GG!!!. I was on a lvl 15 map today farming mats. They were all whining how they have to level up normally because they are getting killed by level 80 and stealing the captures. From what I gathered in the chat, this has been going on for a week.

Again, thank you all for the effort and keep up the good work…

Loosmaster.8263:

For those of you fighting on EoTM…GG!!!. I was on a lvl 15 map today farming mats. They were all whining how they have to level up normally because they are getting killed by level 80 and stealing the captures. From what I gathered in the chat, this has been going on for a week.

Again, thank you all for the effort and keep up the good work…

You’re welcome kind Tyrian. Commander X Swagalicious X noticed that it was time for karma fever to end and has done his best to bring fights to an EoTM Instance near you.

I’ve been in eotm to ktrain multiple times. I’ve also been in eotm to defend multiple times (to get bags and kitten people off). I don’t really see an issue with people doing either on the same map. Obviously I can’t tell if defenders are being reported as griefers/trolls, but that falls under false reporting and those who do it will get banned eventually anyway. The only time I’ve seen defenders get abused in chat is when they themselves try to abuse everybody else for not defending or for not attacking certain objectives.

From what I’ve seen, most commanders, even those in the eotm guild will gladly fight if they feel their zerg can win against the opposing zerg/defenders and they will lead them away if they feel that the chances of winning are slim. Nothing wrong with that.

Assuming you’re just a random commander and you have a zerg of 20-30 mostly uplevels, would you charge straight on into an organised guild group of 20-30 with mostly 80s and only a few uplevels? That’s suicidal. Most people with common sense will run.

For a sec, I thought that this was a new warrior skill….

I have seen very few Commanders in EotM willing to fight other players. Most just put their tails between their legs and run away – so they can just endlessly circle the mindless Karma Train. Since they can’t do it in Queensdale any more, they have switched over to EotM but this is a WvW map with a few more elements of PvE in it.

Just derailing people, from the K Train, makes EotM more fun and viable.

Dusty Moon.4382:

I have seen very few Commanders in EotM willing to fight other players. Most just put their tails between their legs and run away – so they can just endlessly circle the mindless Karma Train. Since they can’t do it in Queensdale any more, they have switched over to EotM but this is a WvW map with a few more elements of PvE in it.

Just derailing people, from the K Train, makes EotM more fun and viable.

Ah, more self-righteousness! Yes, we definitely need more of this!

But it would be nice to have an official stance from ANet regarding this issue, even though it’s quite obvious.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Dusty Moon.4382:

I have seen very few Commanders in EotM willing to fight other players. Most just put their tails between their legs and run away – so they can just endlessly circle the mindless Karma Train. Since they can’t do it in Queensdale any more, they have switched over to EotM but this is a WvW map with a few more elements of PvE in it.

Just derailing people, from the K Train, makes EotM more fun and viable.

Ah, more self-righteousness! Yes, we definitely need more of this!

But it would be nice to have an official stance from ANet regarding this issue, even though it’s quite obvious.

Not self-righteousness. Self righteousness is going into a PvP and NOT expecting to have PvP. That is what is currently happening in EotM – people are using it to level up, farm, etc. They complain when someone is actually PvPing in the map.

Please understand what Self Righteousness actually means.

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

i agree , the same situation exist in wvw maps .

• No claimed towers means guilds don’t care for their server’s “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train , only exception the stupid server’s veteran scouters and PUG commanders ……

p.s. you see what i did here ?

Reborn.2934:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

i agree , the same situation exist in wvw maps .

• No claimed towers means guilds don’t care for their server’s “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train , only exception the stupid server’s veteran scouters and PUG commanders ……

p.s. you see what i did here ?

You made false assumptionts that conveniently appear to support your claims. Let’s break it down:
1. No claimed towers – are you kidding me? Towers will be claimed and upgraded when the strategy at the time is to claim and hold them. If a tower is capped just to force a reaction out of your opponents, without real plans to hold it then because the objective is different, why should it be claimed? Furthermore, how does “guilds not caring for their server’s team spirit” mean that the server has no team spirit? Stupid assumptions ftw.
2. Failure of assumtion 1. leads to failure here. People do care about winning or losing because of server pride. There are also some rewards involved, the extra bonus rank-up chests and the Power of the Mists. Not much, but there is something. Plus, winning means your server at least maintains its position on the leaderboard, if not going up (or at least it should work like this, but due to the ranking system being what it is…).
3. Failure of assumtion 1. lead to failure of assumption 2. leading to failure here.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Reborn.2934:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

i agree , the same situation exist in wvw maps .

• No claimed towers means guilds don’t care for their server’s “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train , only exception the stupid server’s veteran scouters and PUG commanders ……

p.s. you see what i did here ?

You made false assumptionts that conveniently appear to support your claims. Let’s break it down:
1. No claimed towers – are you kidding me? Towers will be claimed and upgraded when the strategy at the time is to claim and hold them. If a tower is capped just to force a reaction out of your opponents, without real plans to hold it then because the objective is different, why should it be claimed? Furthermore, how does “guilds not caring for their server’s team spirit” mean that the server has no team spirit? Stupid assumptions ftw.
2. Failure of assumtion 1. leads to failure here. People do care about winning or losing because of server pride. There are also some rewards involved, the extra bonus rank-up chests and the Power of the Mists. Not much, but there is something. Plus, winning means your server at least maintains its position on the leaderboard, if not going up (or at least it should work like this, but due to the ranking system being what it is…).
3. Failure of assumtion 1. lead to failure of assumption 2. leading to failure here.

1. where i can see what guild claimed something and what OFFICIAL score has this guild ?
2. what will win a guild if claim a tower . server pride …. lol what ? gold , lootbag , influence , guild score points .where are these ?
3. failure of assumption 2 lead to failure assumption 1 leading of wvw failure …

thank you

Reborn.2934:

1. where i can see what guild claimed something and what OFFICIAL score has this guild ?
2. what will win a guild if claim a tower . server pride …. lol what ? gold , lootbag , influence , guild score points .where are these ?
3. failure of assumption 2 lead to failure assumption 1 leading of wvw failure …

thank you

I made a post to respond to this which was far more in the lines of an answer that your post deserves, but it got deleted and I was infracted. Yay for that. I will try and put it in a more polite way:

Your post above makes no sense and I can’t see how it’s related to what my post tried to prove. It seems to me you are picking on me and arguing for the sake of arguing because I “dared” quote you and prove your post wrong.

I have replied to your previous post in a manner that seems logical to me and I brought arguments as to why your previous post was wrong. Please bring up arguments based in logic, to the point at hand and displayed in such a manner that one can understand them, if you wish to have a discourse. Wild ranting will not be taken seriously and will only make people think less of you.

Trying to answer your… hm… interesting post above:
1. You can see the guild emblem on the banners in the claimed structure and I think you can see its name if you talk to the claiming NPC (not sure). As to “official score”, I have no ideea what you mean by this, nor why would it be relevant. There is no official guild ranking as of yet, despite many people asking for it.
2. There is no immediate gain other than the knowledge that your guild supports the war effort of your server. It also works as PR – people see your guild claiming strucutres in WvW = people see your guild is into WvW and dedicated to it = people that are likewise into WvW will want to join your guild, bolstering your numbers and thus making your guild more succesful.
3. ???

There we go. Let’s see if I get infracted for this as well.

Arikyali.5804:

I took a peek into EOTM this week. The side I was on (red) was heavily outnumbered by green. It resulted in the red zerg getting wiped and unable to karma run.

I was a bit surprised to see people raging about the mean green zerg flipping everything and spawn camping people that were obviously running to their death. Someone also complained how they came here to level, and were now having their time wasted. To me, it was all fair and legit – if people didn’t want to be spawn camped, they shouldn’t go running straight into the jaws of death one by one.

EOTM is not wvw. At all. It’s territorial karma train. And when people don’t get their territory, they complain about it. People feel privileged to get their train, as if its the purpose of EOTM.

I left and did something else. I’m not a lemming giving out free bags to spawn campers. I went back to the real WvW.

It is an intro to WvW. You have specific things that can be done but make no mistake it is WvW – just with PvE elements. It is not for karma training, etc. People that do that in EotM are asking to be farmed for bags, since it is a PvP map. One needs to go in with the mentality that it is a PvP map.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with running a train in EotM. You see, there’s this thing called instances. Where, if you don’t like what the MAJORITY of players are doing on the one instance, you can leave and go to another instance.

For the “tough guys” whom think there little group can go in there and wipe the train, better be careful, they aren’t alone. Every since these few whiny players started complaining, we’ve been going in to hunt guild groups. You can’t take the easy way out and hide in EotM.

DeWolfe.2174:

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with running a train in EotM. You see, there’s this thing called instances. Where, if you don’t like what the MAJORITY of players are doing on the one instance, you can leave and go to another instance.

For the “tough guys” whom think there little group can go in there and wipe the train, better be careful, they aren’t alone. Every since these few whiny players started complaining, we’ve been going in to hunt guild groups. You can’t take the easy way out and hide in EotM.

Well, it is a WvW map – period. There is nothing wrong with training but understand that others PvP there.

I just feel it has been too easy to train in EotM and needs to be balanced back to what it was designed to be – an introductory map to WvW.

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

I think all these things are fine, but what was missing was some incentive to win similar to the reward tracks in sPvP.

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

The importance of community is emphasized ad nauseum, but the alleged significance of server community seems to me overblown. Many of the most dedicated WvW guilds care(d) almost nothing for PPT (although they did PPT to maintain their spot in a tier) and instead transferred servers repeatedly in search of quality fights and winning servers. Their desire to do well stemmed not from a concern for server pride or community, but from a desire for engaging large scale PvP. If server pride/community was instead of supreme importance, how would we explain the frequency of server transfers over the past 2 years?

For that matter, although I’d agree a sense of community is important, limiting our understanding of community to server community is misguided. Guilds are also important communities and, I’d argue, far more important than server community. We’ve even seen strong trans-server communities develop, like the GvG scene where players across servers cooperated to form their own player driven content.

Personally, I think EotM’s ktrain status is mostly the result of its rewards and shoddy map design that does more to encourage AC wars than quality PvP. Server pride/community was irrelevant, for instance, in the old days of Blackgate’s and TC’s world boss tours and champ bag farms in Queensdale, Frostgorge, and Cursed Shore. People regularly guested to those servers in search of loot, just as people mostly join EotM for the xp and rewards.

xev.9476:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

The importance of community is emphasized ad nauseum, but the alleged significance of server community seems to me overblown. Many of the most dedicated WvW guilds care(d) almost nothing for PPT (although they did PPT to maintain their spot in a tier) and instead transferred servers repeatedly in search of quality fights and winning servers. Their desire to do well stemmed not from a concern for server pride or community, but from a desire for engaging large scale PvP. If server pride/community was instead of supreme importance, how would we explain the frequency of server transfers over the past 2 years?

For that matter, although I’d agree a sense of community is important, limiting our understanding of community to server community is misguided. Guilds are also important communities and, I’d argue, far more important than server community. We’ve even seen strong trans-server communities develop, like the GvG scene where players across servers cooperated to form their own player driven content.

Personally, I think EotM’s ktrain status is mostly the result of its rewards and shoddy map design that does more to encourage AC wars than quality PvP. Server pride/community was irrelevant, for instance, in the old days of Blackgate’s and TC’s world boss tours and champ bag farms in Queensdale, Frostgorge, and Cursed Shore. People regularly guested to those servers in search of loot, just as people mostly join EotM for the xp and rewards.

xev – it is a WvW map and is designed with many choke points that could be used to derail or even destroy ktrains. It was NOT designed for ktrains but can be exploited for that. As it was a design to give players a chance to ease into WvW, a new WvW player can understand some of the basic mechanics while still getting their PvE dose in.

Dusty Moon.4382:

xev – it is a WvW map and is designed with many choke points that could be used to derail or even destroy ktrains. It was NOT designed for ktrains but can be exploited for that. As it was a design to give players a chance to ease into WvW, a new WvW player can understand some of the basic mechanics while still getting their PvE dose in.

That has nothing to do with my post, which was a response to the claim that EotM is a ktrain zone because there’s no sense of community. And you’ve repeated such claims on several different threads now – who cares? What it was designed for and what it’s used for are clearly two different things.

xev.9476:

Dusty Moon.4382:

xev – it is a WvW map and is designed with many choke points that could be used to derail or even destroy ktrains. It was NOT designed for ktrains but can be exploited for that. As it was a design to give players a chance to ease into WvW, a new WvW player can understand some of the basic mechanics while still getting their PvE dose in.

That has nothing to do with my post, which was a response to the claim that EotM is a ktrain zone because there’s no sense of community. And you’ve repeated such claims on several different threads now – who cares? What it was designed for and what it’s used for are clearly two different things.

Well, go to the map. Players do care. I was in there and there were several guilds groups wrecking the ktrain. The players in the zerg were whining about being killed all the time. If you go to a WvW map, you should expect to be involved with WvW. It doesn’t matter WHAT IT IS USED FOR, go to a WvW map with 2 other factions, expect to PvP.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Reborn.2934:

1. where i can see what guild claimed something and what OFFICIAL score has this guild ?
2. what will win a guild if claim a tower . server pride …. lol what ? gold , lootbag , influence , guild score points .where are these ?
3. failure of assumption 2 lead to failure assumption 1 leading of wvw failure …

thank you

I made a post to respond to this which was far more in the lines of an answer that your post deserves, but it got deleted and I was infracted. Yay for that. I will try and put it in a more polite way:

Your post above makes no sense and I can’t see how it’s related to what my post tried to prove. It seems to me you are picking on me and arguing for the sake of arguing because I “dared” quote you and prove your post wrong.

I have replied to your previous post in a manner that seems logical to me and I brought arguments as to why your previous post was wrong. Please bring up arguments based in logic, to the point at hand and displayed in such a manner that one can understand them, if you wish to have a discourse. Wild ranting will not be taken seriously and will only make people think less of you.

Trying to answer your… hm… interesting post above:
1. You can see the guild emblem on the banners in the claimed structure and I think you can see its name if you talk to the claiming NPC (not sure). As to “official score”, I have no ideea what you mean by this, nor why would it be relevant. There is no official guild ranking as of yet, despite many people asking for it.
2. There is no immediate gain other than the knowledge that your guild supports the war effort of your server. It also works as PR – people see your guild claiming strucutres in WvW = people see your guild is into WvW and dedicated to it = people that are likewise into WvW will want to join your guild, bolstering your numbers and thus making your guild more succesful.
3. ???

There we go. Let’s see if I get infracted for this as well.

1 . no nobody can see what guild and who is the leader of the guild ( for contact ) who claimed a tower / keep / camp in wvw , same situation exist in eotm too

2. knowledge ? sorry mate but i will tell you a story from my server to explain you that there is no knowledge or fame or whatever for anyone that belongs in wvw guilds . i am dedicated wvw player and i am in pve guild too . nobody knows in my pve guild the wvw / gvg guilds . nobody knows and nobody follow them in wvw when they are playing , because they know that most of them don’t really want the “good” of our server but to fill their egos with wins in fights . this is the reason that most of old wvw guilds have disbanded or leaved gw2 . there is nothing in gw2 for a real war guild that want to dominate and conquer.

3. i can explain it more … i am just waiting with all of my guildies to start archeage in october to find a reason to create again a guild with a purpose in-game , not just a band of musicians ( ring bell ) or dancers ( dance volume 1 and 2 )

Reborn.2934:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Reborn.2934:

1. where i can see what guild claimed something and what OFFICIAL score has this guild ?
2. what will win a guild if claim a tower . server pride …. lol what ? gold , lootbag , influence , guild score points .where are these ?
3. failure of assumption 2 lead to failure assumption 1 leading of wvw failure …

thank you

I made a post to respond to this which was far more in the lines of an answer that your post deserves, but it got deleted and I was infracted. Yay for that. I will try and put it in a more polite way:

Your post above makes no sense and I can’t see how it’s related to what my post tried to prove. It seems to me you are picking on me and arguing for the sake of arguing because I “dared” quote you and prove your post wrong.

I have replied to your previous post in a manner that seems logical to me and I brought arguments as to why your previous post was wrong. Please bring up arguments based in logic, to the point at hand and displayed in such a manner that one can understand them, if you wish to have a discourse. Wild ranting will not be taken seriously and will only make people think less of you.

Trying to answer your… hm… interesting post above:
1. You can see the guild emblem on the banners in the claimed structure and I think you can see its name if you talk to the claiming NPC (not sure). As to “official score”, I have no ideea what you mean by this, nor why would it be relevant. There is no official guild ranking as of yet, despite many people asking for it.
2. There is no immediate gain other than the knowledge that your guild supports the war effort of your server. It also works as PR – people see your guild claiming strucutres in WvW = people see your guild is into WvW and dedicated to it = people that are likewise into WvW will want to join your guild, bolstering your numbers and thus making your guild more succesful.
3. ???

There we go. Let’s see if I get infracted for this as well.

1 . no nobody can see what guild and who is the leader of the guild ( for contact ) who claimed a tower / keep / camp in wvw , same situation exist in eotm too

2. knowledge ? sorry mate but i will tell you a story from my server to explain you that there is no knowledge or fame or whatever for anyone that belongs in wvw guilds . i am dedicated wvw player and i am in pve guild too . nobody knows in my pve guild the wvw / gvg guilds . nobody knows and nobody follow them in wvw when they are playing , because they know that most of them don’t really want the “good” of our server but to fill their egos with wins in fights . this is the reason that most of old wvw guilds have disbanded or leaved gw2 . there is nothing in gw2 for a real war guild that want to dominate and conquer.

3. i can explain it more … i am just waiting with all of my guildies to start archeage in october to find a reason to create again a guild with a purpose in-game , not just a band of musicians ( ring bell ) or dancers ( dance volume 1 and 2 )

GL with ArcheAge – the classic P2W game. I played beta and it is a POS. it is pretty but unless you get in with a MEGA-guild all the land will be taken after the head start, because many mega-guild players are Founders also (paid 150 USD just to play the Alpha and Beta). It took one player 10 hours to get to max level in AA (he was in one of those big guilds) – it is a classic Korean Grinder, otherwise.

Back OT, If you want to know WvW guilds, you need to look fro recruiting in a WvW guild. It is that simple. I have learned a whole bunch in my guild because of that.

@Dusty Moon.4382 no worries , i took my pass for free and for a mega guild too … that have left gw2

xev.9476:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• The megaserver nature of EoTM ensures it has no community.
• No community means there’s no “team spirit.”
• No team spirit means no one cares about winning or losing.
• No one caring about winning or losing means 24/7 karma train.

EoTM’s massive failure is actually a great lesson on the importance of community. Of course Anet didn’t learn that when they used EoTM as a beta for megaservers.

The importance of community is emphasized ad nauseum, but the alleged significance of server community seems to me overblown. Many of the most dedicated WvW guilds care(d) almost nothing for PPT (although they did PPT to maintain their spot in a tier) and instead transferred servers repeatedly in search of quality fights and winning servers. Their desire to do well stemmed not from a concern for server pride or community, but from a desire for engaging large scale PvP. If server pride/community was instead of supreme importance, how would we explain the frequency of server transfers over the past 2 years?

For that matter, although I’d agree a sense of community is important, limiting our understanding of community to server community is misguided. Guilds are also important communities and, I’d argue, far more important than server community. We’ve even seen strong trans-server communities develop, like the GvG scene where players across servers cooperated to form their own player driven content.

Personally, I think EotM’s ktrain status is mostly the result of its rewards and shoddy map design that does more to encourage AC wars than quality PvP. Server pride/community was irrelevant, for instance, in the old days of Blackgate’s and TC’s world boss tours and champ bag farms in Queensdale, Frostgorge, and Cursed Shore. People regularly guested to those servers in search of loot, just as people mostly join EotM for the xp and rewards.

First i think you are looking at server pride as an absolute. Wanting my server to win in WvW doesnt mean i will never talk to any other server, or never want to do an event with another server.
Second, i think you are totally undersestimating how much people get caught up in the battle against enemies. If you remember the match up threads, many of the fight loving guilds had immense server pride, constantly screaming the name of their servers. Go look at any maguma match up thread (if you can find old internet records) and you will see wanting fights and thinking your server is the best is far from mutually exclusive.

As far as server swappers, people get bored and try to change up their relationships, but many times while they are in that relationship they love it and will swear they will never leave. Then when they get into the next one they still say the same, this doesnt mean they didnt have pride/connection to that relationship back when they were in it.

That aside, WvW still needs goals to work, and the goals of success in EOTM isnt enough to keep people actually trying to do the objectives. Its not just about community, its also about just not having a goal that matters or a shared interest in intent to pvp. If winning objectives and killing players had some value, people might actually work together, and try to achieve this.

Since winning is fairly irrelevant in eotm, they need the reward structure to guide players to the type of play they want people to have. This is a problem in WvW as well, however server connection/shared goal/whatever acts with enough force to make people play the game sometimes

Winning in EotM means that you get lot’s of bags, kills and wexp. That why we wanna win whole time.

phys.7689:

First i think you are looking at server pride as an absolute. Wanting my server to win in WvW doesnt mean i will never talk to any other server, or never want to do an event with another server.
Second, i think you are totally undersestimating how much people get caught up in the battle against enemies. If you remember the match up threads, many of the fight loving guilds had immense server pride, constantly screaming the name of their servers. Go look at any maguma match up thread (if you can find old internet records) and you will see wanting fights and thinking your server is the best is far from mutually exclusive.

As far as server swappers, people get bored and try to change up their relationships, but many times while they are in that relationship they love it and will swear they will never leave. Then when they get into the next one they still say the same, this doesnt mean they didnt have pride/connection to that relationship back when they were in it.

I’m from Maguuma, and the vast majority of guilds there were solely after good fights – we cared nothing for PPT or winning for our server. You can even look back at the matchup threads to see Mag’s fierce PvForum trolls kittening about all the other servers hiding behind siege and megablobs.

I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that I’m thinking of server pride as an absolute. My point is that that there are often more significant motivations to care about WvW than server pride, such as loot (in the case of EotM), and other common interests (for instance, GvG, and good fights). The prominence of these motivations specifically call into question the idea that a lack of server pride/community led to EotM’s ktrain situation. That’s the only point I’m trying to make here. I’m not saying that server pride prevents you from speaking with other servers, or that people don’t get caught up in killing other players. My point is that server pride/community is usually secondary to these other considerations and that there’s more explanatory force in these other motivations. Server pride, generally, is something that develops only after certain conditions are met, e.g. that players are happy, presence of good fights, etc., and as such, lacks explanatory force.