Guild Wars 2

I think that completely stupid how eles can destroy and kill about anything on the walls really fast. It would be really nice if that crap would be fixed before season starts. Thanks.

You must really hate necros then.

Necros can hit stuff on the edge of the wall but not far away from the wall edge with crap like meteor shower or dragon tooth… it is virtually pointless to put any sieg on wall when enemy has ele…

example: look at left AC…
and look where enemy is

Dragons tooth and death shroud (4) are the main offenders I guess, ignoring LoS and obstacle.

So both death shroud and dragons tooth can hit the AC in the screenshot above.

poor you someone killed your ac, now you might actually have to use some skills

Here is a novel thought….Kill the ele.

Seige is not meant to be invincible, just an aid to defense.

Ele will just run away while you get spiked by his teammates. Unless he is targeting the AC specifically, you can ask a friendly thief to give you stealth, so the ele loses target.

They added LOS to mesmer phantasms to stop people from doing this sort of stuff long ago. I have no idea why these two others haven’t been changed yet.

Lifewaster.5912:

Dragons tooth and death shroud (4) are the main offenders I guess, ignoring LoS and obstacle.

So both death shroud and dragons tooth can hit the AC in the screenshot above.

If this game wasn’t just centred around Arrow Cart wars in terms of defending, then you may have a valid point. In the end, counters are counters.

Working as intended.

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

Nikkinella.8254:

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

>Get downed on my ele
>Doesn’t care
>Vapor forms back to the zerg

If the person tries to stomp a 2nd time enjoy that quick death. I’ll probably be up again from everyone reviving me before you even get there. Certainly before you’re able to get a stomp off or be able to dps my ele down.

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

>Get downed on my ele
>Doesn’t care
>Vapor forms back to the zerg

If the person tries to stomp a 2nd time enjoy that quick death. I’ll probably be up again from everyone reviving me before you even get there. Certainly before you’re able to get a stomp off or be able to dps my ele down.

You do realize that vapor form and mist form were stealth nerfed recently right? Anyone with half a brain will take advantage of that now and immobilize you before you can float away and you WILL die. Immobilize will work on mist form and vapor form now. I guess you’re fortunate that 95% of zerglings never carry any immobilize skills and have nothing but damage skills on their utility slots. Can’t tell you how many times an ele has tried that with me and I nailed him with pindown and watched him float in place and then drop again when mistform/vaporform expires, then I drop a combustive shot right on his body. and good luck to anyone trying to res him while my fire ticks away on him at over 1k per tick.

Contiguous.1345:

Working as intended.

^
To OP, didn’t you know that you are not supposed to defend. So please join the karma train.

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

Any staff ele AOEing the wall will be defended by his friends. Ele is not easily killed by the way.

Nikkinella.8254:

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

>Get downed on my ele
>Doesn’t care
>Vapor forms back to the zerg

If the person tries to stomp a 2nd time enjoy that quick death. I’ll probably be up again from everyone reviving me before you even get there. Certainly before you’re able to get a stomp off or be able to dps my ele down.

You do realize that vapor form and mist form were stealth nerfed recently right? Anyone with half a brain will take advantage of that now and immobilize you before you can float away and you WILL die. Immobilize will work on mist form and vapor form now. I guess you’re fortunate that 95% of zerglings never carry any immobilize skills and have nothing but damage skills on their utility slots. Can’t tell you how many times an ele has tried that with me and I nailed him with pindown and watched him float in place and then drop again when mistform/vaporform expires, then I drop a combustive shot right on his body. and good luck to anyone trying to res him while my fire ticks away on him at over 1k per tick.

The immobilization won’t last long enough to fully prevent it. It does limit the distance a bit though. 1k per tick is nothing compared to how much multiple people can res for. Any damage you do to the ressers is easily healed. You’re not going to stop any half decent group from reviving the ele before death by doing this.

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

>Get downed on my ele
>Doesn’t care
>Vapor forms back to the zerg

If the person tries to stomp a 2nd time enjoy that quick death. I’ll probably be up again from everyone reviving me before you even get there. Certainly before you’re able to get a stomp off or be able to dps my ele down.

You do realize that vapor form and mist form were stealth nerfed recently right? Anyone with half a brain will take advantage of that now and immobilize you before you can float away and you WILL die. Immobilize will work on mist form and vapor form now. I guess you’re fortunate that 95% of zerglings never carry any immobilize skills and have nothing but damage skills on their utility slots. Can’t tell you how many times an ele has tried that with me and I nailed him with pindown and watched him float in place and then drop again when mistform/vaporform expires, then I drop a combustive shot right on his body. and good luck to anyone trying to res him while my fire ticks away on him at over 1k per tick.

The immobilization won’t last long enough to prevent it. It does limit the distance a bit though. 1k per tick is nothing compared to how much multiple people can res for. Any damage you do to the ressers is easily healed. You’re not going to stop any half decent group from reviving the ele before death by doing this.

I guess all the eles that I’ve ever fought were just terrible players on terrible servers who cant even keep me from killing them when their friends are trying to res them? Is that what you’re saying? You underestimate how much hurt a warrior can put out. between all the bleeds, confusion stacks, and burns, they are going to have a REALLY hard time keeping someone up if I focus on them, especially a squishy ele. After all the nerfs they are pretty much guaranteed kills even if they have help.

Nikkinella.8254:

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

Aberrant.6749:

Nikkinella.8254:

If you can’t kill an ele as bad as the class is right now, just quit the game. You must be a really horrible player. Any other class could kill them in a couple hits. Stand in the meteors that hit for a pathetic 2k damage and shoot down at them and kill them in a couple hits, problem solved. Hell, I can literally 1 shot them with my warrior regardless of how tanky they THINK they are, and I am not the least bit glassy (have over 3k armor). The class is a joke and a free lootbag in wvw. I LOVE when they come too close to a tower and try to drop meteors on me. They’re assuring their own death.

>Get downed on my ele
>Doesn’t care
>Vapor forms back to the zerg

If the person tries to stomp a 2nd time enjoy that quick death. I’ll probably be up again from everyone reviving me before you even get there. Certainly before you’re able to get a stomp off or be able to dps my ele down.

You do realize that vapor form and mist form were stealth nerfed recently right? Anyone with half a brain will take advantage of that now and immobilize you before you can float away and you WILL die. Immobilize will work on mist form and vapor form now. I guess you’re fortunate that 95% of zerglings never carry any immobilize skills and have nothing but damage skills on their utility slots. Can’t tell you how many times an ele has tried that with me and I nailed him with pindown and watched him float in place and then drop again when mistform/vaporform expires, then I drop a combustive shot right on his body. and good luck to anyone trying to res him while my fire ticks away on him at over 1k per tick.

The immobilization won’t last long enough to prevent it. It does limit the distance a bit though. 1k per tick is nothing compared to how much multiple people can res for. Any damage you do to the ressers is easily healed. You’re not going to stop any half decent group from reviving the ele before death by doing this.

I guess all the eles that I’ve ever fought were just terrible players on terrible servers who cant even keep me from killing them when 3 or more or their friends are trying to res them? Is that what you’re saying? You underestimate how much hurt a warrior can put out. between all the bleeds, confusion stacks, and burns, they are going to have a REALLY hard tie keeping someone up if I focus on them, especially a squishy ele. After all the nerfs they are pretty much guaranteed kills even if they have help.

When is a group trying to take a sieged and defended tower just 4 people? Who are these squishy built eles that don’t run with a zerg? Who are these zergs that let your high damage war just keep attacking the downed ele and the people ressing them?

Yea, they sound like bad groups of totally mindless zerglings to me.

I guess they are just bad then. Still easy to kill. So my point still stands. I guess we get matched up against nothing but horrible servers. I still rejoice every time I see an ele in a group. I single them out because I know i’m guaranteed an easy lootbag.

Ruzz.4083:

poor you someone killed your ac, now you might actually have to use some skills

yeah which is pretty hard when 15 people face a 60+ man zerg. it take soo much skill from those zergs to take a keep right. like pvdooring is really really challenging,

Nikkinella.8254:

I guess they are just bad then. Still easy to kill. So my point still stands. I guess we get matched up against nothing but horrible servers.

There are a lot of bad players in WvW. I’ll certainly give you that. The number of times I’ve been able to charge in with gear shield then elixir S invuln stomp people in the middle of a group and live to tell the tale is simply ridiculous. Do I just let people do that sort of stuff to my team mates though? Lol no.

Find it funny how people say go kill ele

yeah sure, let me go and fight 10vs60, even if we somehow magically kill ele he will be just rezzed and do same thing again

what is the point of sieg anyway then if to defend tower i have to go against huge blobs anways since sieg gets destroyed instantly

if eles can do it, might as well let thieves shadowstep or steal on sieg, mesmers port, warriors hammer sieg etc. doesn’t sound fair of all sudden does it?

the only way effectively keep sieg and actually hit anything with it is hacking… not trying to advertise it here but it is main reason why people use hacks on first place

There is one place staff is useful on an ele… and that is fighting zergs. Everywhere else, ele’s are absolutely free points. Stop whining about nothing.

Aberrant.6749:

They added LOS to mesmer phantasms to stop people from doing this sort of stuff long ago. I have no idea why these two others haven’t been changed yet.

Yes, these 2 skills should be fixed to be consistent with the rest. Mesmers q.q alot about this change, but they eventually got over it. I see no reason why eles and necros should be exempted.

covenn.7165:

There is one place staff is useful on an ele… and that is fighting zergs. Everywhere else, ele’s are absolutely free points. Stop whining about nothing.

everywhere else maybe… but we talk about wvw here

Yes, remove this. Then there will no longer be a reason to play Elementalists.

“OMG plz nerf Ele, too much OP for me to handle”.

@Nikkinella: as an Ele, I can tell you I always go Mistform when in Air/Fire Attunement so that I can cleanse 2 conditions when I go back to water, so that even if I get Immobilized I will still be able to get away.

Oh gosh i can see another nerf incoming. MS radius reduced to 120 and number of meteors divided by 10, and DT ground targeted within 90 range with damage halved so the populace can feel happy again. Yay.

Aberrant.6749:

They added LOS to mesmer phantasms to stop people from doing this sort of stuff long ago. I have no idea why these two others haven’t been changed yet.

It is odd that mesmer and ranger gets mega nerfed on walls but ele get to spam regardless of LoS. I guess ANET just addresses issues as they come and not enough people have complained about cheap ele’s.

Nothing wrong with eles doing this damage, bad placed siege will be destroyed.
And kill the ele, that’s a nice advice. Did the person suggested this had defending a keep in mind or did he get confused with roaming.

No, according to what I’m reading. tooth lands regardless of LoS. That’s fair? Pretty sure ele can do damage is fine but exploiting tooth isn’t. Can anyone confirm?

The only ability that doesnt require line of site is dragon tooth. There are other classes with other abilities that can do this as well.

Cynz.9437:

covenn.7165:

There is one place staff is useful on an ele… and that is fighting zergs. Everywhere else, ele’s are absolutely free points. Stop whining about nothing.

everywhere else maybe… but we talk about wvw here

Catch a staff ele solo = free points.

Catch a staff running havoc = free points.

Catch a staff ele on the edge of a zerg = free points.

Catch a staff ele in a zerg away from a structure that doesn’t have people willing to kill you off of them = free points.

Catch a staff ele pretty much anywhere away from a door they can’t port through or a wall to hide behind = free points.

Honestly, there isn’t a worse class/weapon combination in the game than a staff ele away from a zerg or a structure they can hide behind. Even other ele’s running different weapon sets look at staff eles as free points.

I am not complaining about it, it is just the way it is. The weapon set excels in zerg fights and around structures. There is nothing to complain or whine about here. Besides dragon tooth is scepter… all the staff abilities are line of site or ground target.

covenn.7165:

Cynz.9437:

covenn.7165:

There is one place staff is useful on an ele… and that is fighting zergs. Everywhere else, ele’s are absolutely free points. Stop whining about nothing.

everywhere else maybe… but we talk about wvw here

Catch a staff ele solo = free points.

Catch a staff running havoc = free points.

Catch a staff ele on the edge of a zerg = free points.

Catch a staff ele in a zerg away from a structure that doesn’t have people willing to kill you off of them = free points.

Catch a staff ele pretty much anywhere away from a door they can’t port through or a wall to hide behind = free points.

Honestly, there isn’t a worse class/weapon combination in the game than a staff ele away from a zerg or a structure they can hide behind. Even other ele’s running different weapon sets look at staff eles as free points.

I am not complaining about it, it is just the way it is. The weapon set excels in zerg fights and around structures. There is nothing to complain or whine about here. Besides dragon tooth is scepter… all the staff abilities are line of site or ground target.

^^^ This perception (true or not) is why you will rarely run into dedicated staff eles in WvW.

If someone is brave/stupid enough to stick with staff ele (like me), shouldn’t he get to be effective in some way?

Now if you are talking about dragon’s tooth that is scepter ele. In this case, the ele is literally hugging the wall… just kill him. If there is an entire zerg protecting the scepter ele, well good for them. I have never seen that before.

(P. S. catching a good staff ele is not easy. The free points are the d/d eles who switched to staff to AoE a wall.)

I read ele’s can eliminate WxP by simply using mistform when downed.

covenn.7165:

Cynz.9437:

covenn.7165:

There is one place staff is useful on an ele… and that is fighting zergs. Everywhere else, ele’s are absolutely free points. Stop whining about nothing.

everywhere else maybe… but we talk about wvw here

Catch a staff ele solo = free points.

Catch a staff running havoc = free points.

Catch a staff ele on the edge of a zerg = free points.

Catch a staff ele in a zerg away from a structure that doesn’t have people willing to kill you off of them = free points.

Catch a staff ele pretty much anywhere away from a door they can’t port through or a wall to hide behind = free points.

Honestly, there isn’t a worse class/weapon combination in the game than a staff ele away from a zerg or a structure they can hide behind. Even other ele’s running different weapon sets look at staff eles as free points.

I am not complaining about it, it is just the way it is. The weapon set excels in zerg fights and around structures. There is nothing to complain or whine about here. Besides dragon tooth is scepter… all the staff abilities are line of site or ground target.

As a staff ele main, this is exactly the case. Only time I’m ‘safe’ is with a zerg. Out in the open, I’m dead by any class (unless they’re underleveled and/or don’t know what they’re doing).
And the class changes coming (if they stay as they were announced) aren’t going to help us eles any.

(P. S. catching a good staff ele is not easy. The free points are the d/d eles who switched to staff to AoE a wall.)

Well I must not be that good of a staff ele, cause I’m pretty much always caught. I think I’ve gotten away maybe ~10% of the time.

I use staff and am getting more kills than getting killed. None of the commanders have ever suggested I use anything but staff, either. In fact, some of the skills the commanders constantly ask for from ele’s are only available on staff (static field, water fields).

This should really be in the ele sub-forums or trashcan.

Nanyetah Elohi.4852:

I use staff and am getting more kills than getting killed. None of the commanders have ever suggested I use anything but staff, either. In fact, some of the skills the commanders constantly ask for from ele’s are only available on staff (static field, water fields).

Did you read any of the responses? Yes, that is the situation where staff excels…. zerging.

skullmount.1758:

Well I must not be that good of a staff ele, cause I’m pretty much always caught. I think I’ve gotten away maybe ~10% of the time.

Lightning flash, mist form, and staff cc will only get you so far. As long as that distance is behind a keep or back to spawn, or lets you break combat to port… then you are fine. You can try running FGS and using 3 and 4 to help you some, though even that wont get you away from the more mobile thieves/warriors/rangers/etc. but it will help you a lot.

The better option is to never have a staff out when away from the zerg or the safety of a structure

covenn.7165:

skullmount.1758:

Well I must not be that good of a staff ele, cause I’m pretty much always caught. I think I’ve gotten away maybe ~10% of the time.

Lightning flash, mist form, and staff cc will only get you so far. As long as that distance is behind a keep or back to spawn, or lets you break combat to port… then you are fine. You can try running FGS and using 3 and 4 to help you some, though even that wont get you away from the more mobile thieves/warriors/rangers/etc. but it will help you a lot.

The better option is to never have a staff out when away from the zerg or the safety of a structure

Are you kidding? You can escape anything with swiftness + FGS, if you can survive standing still to cast it. My escape plan is always: 1) use CCs/cantrips to gain a little breathing room, 2) FGS

Granted, I use runes of the centaur, so I can maintain swiftness even when holding the FGS. The swiftness dramatically increases the range.

When they release the update to unsteady ground, it will be even easier.

covenn.7165:

skullmount.1758:

Well I must not be that good of a staff ele, cause I’m pretty much always caught. I think I’ve gotten away maybe ~10% of the time.

Lightning flash, mist form, and staff cc will only get you so far. As long as that distance is behind a keep or back to spawn, or lets you break combat to port… then you are fine. You can try running FGS and using 3 and 4 to help you some, though even that wont get you away from the more mobile thieves/warriors/rangers/etc. but it will help you a lot.

The better option is to never have a staff out when away from the zerg or the safety of a structure

Could be because I never use mistform or lightning flash, or FGS for that matter.

@OP

You have got to be kidding, but assuming you’re not just trolling:

One of the TWO things that eles are good at over and above any other class (the other being AoE CC), and you’re whining about it? Really?

If the Ele is bothering you that much, focus fire him. Eles are defeated by a stray sneeze most of the time when they’re singled out. And, even if you don’t manage to kill him, you’ll most likely get him away from your wall.

@Nanyetah

Keep in mind that lightning hammer also has a static field, and other classes can provide water fields. Just in case you ever want to try running another weapon set while zerging. But, I agree with you that I find staff to be most effective in groups.

titanlectro.5029:

Are you kidding? You can escape anything with swiftness + FGS, if you can survive standing still to cast it. My escape plan is always: 1) use CCs/cantrips to gain a little breathing room, 2) FGS

The life of a staff ele is summed up nicely here.

Use cantrips and your elites to get away from classes you have no hope of killing that are not using either

The best bet is still not to ever be caught away from your zerg with a staff out.

I don’t really have a problem with eles doing this, but other classes should have more viable wall attacks as well. It is pretty ridiculous that most bow attacks cannot peg something on a wall.

Why would a good ele be away from their zerg, except to hold and upgrade a tower or keep? Somebody has to understand how to take care of the necessary stuff, it’s elemental.

I don’t think people understand why i made this post: it is not about eles alone

it is about the fact that regardless where you put sieg on the wall it will get killed before you can really do any dmg with it unless enemy doesn’t have eles/necros etc.

i don’t ask to nerf eles, i ask to do something about ignoring LOS and walls/sieg being kind of useless; i brought up eles as an example

either allow all classes to kill sieg on walls or make sure that no class can kill sieg so far from wall edge

I think I can speak for everyone elementalist here that we would welcome a balance update to our class so we can fight on equal ground in a 1v1, and in return give up the power of Dragons tooth and a smaller meteor shower. Add 50% health and armor, make our recharges in similar of necromancers/Mesmers, and make our attack speed to be less than 1s, and we can all walk happy from that deal.

Where can I go and sign some papers?

Think you just did : ) But the main developer for this game seems to play ele a bit and has his opinions about how we should play ele. There is a recent video in the ele forum thread. He talks about why we are slow and why ANet isnt going to change much about us except how much and how fast they expect us to swap attunements.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ELES ONLY but about sieg weakness and LOS in wvw….

well, you might not know how to place siege like I do. I might show you if you are on my server, otherwise not. My siege stands pretty well. The big issue is SUPPLY. Starved for, in particular.