Guild Wars 2

Hi all I’ve spend most of my time in PvP and pve, got tired of both haven’t played a match in over two weeks.
Now I want to get into wvw and my mains are engi and war. (I prefer engi play style)

But my guild do not want engis in their wvw runs. So I get constantly harassed by my guildmates to change back to warr.

try this, when they see you trap a zerg in slicky theyll prolly stop complaining. if they realize what just happened.

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

Nah, even with best tanky gear( atm it is nomad i think) and kittened build( 2x elixir S + edurance refill for whole time) engi wouldn’t stand a chance in meele or will hold a bit but don’t do any dmg due to surviving. As i wrote no place for him tbh cos of no burst dmg, no support( healing turret yes, but turret melt faster than u can set up water) no surv( unless u want to do nothing by going full surv).

Kasteros.9847:

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

Nah, even with best tanky gear( atm it is nomad i think) and kittened build( 2x elixir S + edurance refill for whole time) engi wouldn’t stand a chance in meele or will hold a bit but don’t do any dmg due to surviving. As i wrote no place for him tbh cos of no burst dmg, no support( healing turret yes, but turret melt faster than u can set up water) no surv( unless u want to do nothing by going full surv).

except youre just plain wrong. i prove it every NA night running with tc against the jq map queues. in even/advantageous fights, i can make a huge difference by playing smart. in uneven fights, i dont just die constantly. im often the first one in, even before the commander commits, and i make it out just fine. i dont even have to go nomad. soldier works.

try stepping out of your box. slicky a choke, stack, or maneuver. its obvious you havent even tried.

try this

engy is good but it doesn’t have stability consistently so it needs to rely on guards for frontine engy.
backline engy is meh.

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

Nah, even with best tanky gear( atm it is nomad i think) and kittened build( 2x elixir S + edurance refill for whole time) engi wouldn’t stand a chance in meele or will hold a bit but don’t do any dmg due to surviving. As i wrote no place for him tbh cos of no burst dmg, no support( healing turret yes, but turret melt faster than u can set up water) no surv( unless u want to do nothing by going full surv).

except youre just plain wrong. i prove it every NA night running with tc against the jq map queues. in even/advantageous fights, i can make a huge difference by playing smart. in uneven fights, i dont just die constantly. im often the first one in, even before the commander commits, and i make it out just fine. i dont even have to go nomad. soldier works.

try stepping out of your box. slicky a choke, stack, or maneuver. its obvious you havent even tried.

try this

Go with this against TA the. Ohh w8, TA disbanded, then against dF or NB, it might work for blob fights cos basically u are covered for whole time and no need to care about blasts or something, but against guild groups engy in meele is useless ^^ If u engage before commander u play wrong, if u engage after commander too, u need to engage exactly with him. Also as i wrote u play surv build so u can stay alive for some time, put ur slick and supply, but then…do nothing cos ur build have very low dps, almost 0 support for melee( 1 blast with 20 sec cd that put u out of mt is nothing) and except running and surviving u can’t help ur team as much as guard / warrior do

Kasteros.9847:

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

Nah, even with best tanky gear( atm it is nomad i think) and kittened build( 2x elixir S + edurance refill for whole time) engi wouldn’t stand a chance in meele or will hold a bit but don’t do any dmg due to surviving. As i wrote no place for him tbh cos of no burst dmg, no support( healing turret yes, but turret melt faster than u can set up water) no surv( unless u want to do nothing by going full surv).

I run full ascended celestial as a commander and front line runner and have no survivability issues.

I have no problem at all zerging with my engie.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I have no problem at all zerging with my engie.

Same here.

Focus party and frontline play are both totally possible with (enough skill, experience, and) the right build(s) and gear. I find grenades a bit lackluster for range/caster role, but perhaps mortar kit will change that. I certainly wouldn’t recommend using the pvp meta build, maybe that’s people’s problem.

Heh, post pirateship meta, I’ve been wvw’ing on my engineer more than anything else, switching in between a typical Grenade build and a Grenade/mine build, though I usually take out ele for the heavy lifting. I’m actually making ascended wvw zerg armor for engineer but…

This is something that you really have to talk to your guild about. If you don’t meet the requirements for their wvw raids, you’d be best off following it— but of course it makes no sense if you’re not and are being harassed or whatever; in that case I’m not sure if you want to be in that guild then. In other words, I think it’s not just an issue of engineer viability.

It doesn’t matter what anyone else says if they’ve built around something that requires you to be a warrior which is probably true because GWEN is the meta.

In any case, Engineers have a lack of stability which can be problematic and a lesser problem is their ranged attacks are projectiles that can be reflected, as opposed to say necro wells or ele fire skills that are ground targeted. They certainly have a lot of fields and blast finishers but a lot of their stuff is hard to use in a zerg. For example, bombs have a delay and grenades land slowly. At the very least they have a lot of aoe/piercing though. For example, rifle AA can actually do quite a number to people.

It is funny, however, because the pirate ship meta has pretty much caused me to shelve my warrior since it got so boring. On the other hand, as for wvw as a whole, I feel that you should be on whatever you can accomplish the most with. Now certainly, if you’re going turret/elixir that would probably be a bad idea, but I’m sure there’s a more moderate situation than that.

Like all classes in the pirate ship meta engi suffers from the crippling disadvantage of not being ele.

the 1500 range aoe of nades is okay. Condi spec won’t work well, as zergs clear em quickly.

This is what i run when im on frontline Eng.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrlcxzLseNiaBF6MuxAIyQmlPGhDA-TlhFwAAeAgSQjK/Mp+zo9HuohIxFAgMAMjB-w

Yes it requires you to be in an organized group, not server blob. But it works and works well.

You bring every field your group needs as well as substantial damage allowing you to bully out lighter classes and force valuable cooldowns.

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

Its doable but its really hard cuz u r slow+ranged with grenades u need to be really careful not to get urself killed by retaliation it helps with omnomberry ghost or compote.

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

I don’t think you play engie or if you do you haven’t explored the possibilities. My engie can drop numerous fields and get at minimum 4 blast on them but I guess that doesn’t do anything for my party.

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Coldtart.4785:

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

That’s nice. Make a thread about it. This thread isn’t about comparing professions, or even comparing engineer to other profession. It is about the engineer in a large force.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

he quite reminds me of this guy

engi is in almost every single way an inferior ele. The 2 reasons to pick an engi over ele is because of slick shoes and their pull. Now with the pirateship meta slick shoes is in my opinion to situational (you need to be able to fully push in the zerg in order to make usage of it) lack of stability, lack of ranged CC and overall party support are some of the main reasons why engi is not in the meta.

When comparing engi vs war playstyle i need to agree on the fact that war has lost it’s glory days and now is often reduced to a bannerbot only

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

That’s nice. Make a thread about it. This thread isn’t about comparing professions, or even comparing engineer to other profession. It is about the engineer in a large force.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

If engineer is inferior to other classes you shouldn’t use it if you want to win.

Engineer has very little self sustain and damage compared to other classes in WvW. It’s great for small scale 5v5 sort of fights, but for anything larger than 5 people, other classes start to overtake Engineer in viability for both damage, support and sustain.

Slick shoes just isn’t enough.

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

That’s nice. Make a thread about it. This thread isn’t about comparing professions, or even comparing engineer to other profession. It is about the engineer in a large force.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

If engineer is inferior to other classes you shouldn’t use it if you want to win.

Then you shouldn’t play it if you cannot win with it. Personally I thrive with it as a T1 server commander.

Simply because you and how you build or play it gives you limitations, does not mean others have that problem. I enjoy the profession. So I think outside the box and run unique builds and thrive, both having fun on a personal level and winning.

enjoy your free loot bags by dancing your fingers over 12345 or clicking skills if you prefer

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Well engi is good till u find yourself getting rekt at start. Also when engi is out of skills he is useless till they refresh. Next point is that u don’t have position as engi, with meele u die fast, with fp u don’t have enough burst dmg, with backline u don’t do anything to support them and mt.

everyone is useless after blowing cds

if youre dying fast in melee, your gear and/or build sucks, and engi needs both to not suck

Nah, even with best tanky gear( atm it is nomad i think) and kittened build( 2x elixir S + edurance refill for whole time) engi wouldn’t stand a chance in meele or will hold a bit but don’t do any dmg due to surviving. As i wrote no place for him tbh cos of no burst dmg, no support( healing turret yes, but turret melt faster than u can set up water) no surv( unless u want to do nothing by going full surv).

I run full ascended celestial as a commander and front line runner and have no survivability issues.

I would like to make long comment about leading in mt as engi, but i don’t know ur build( probably full survi traits and skills tho). Celestials tells me only that u don’t do such huge dmg. If possible please send me ur build, wanna check this, cos I used all possible trait / skills sets to do something and don’t die in mt but i was either dmg or survi, never both.

Coldtart.4785:

Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Good thing my engi can do it from 1500 away, so the ele’s counter-attacks fall 300 short of my position.

BrettM.9062:

Coldtart.4785:

Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Good thing my engi can do it from 1500 away, so the ele’s counter-attacks fall 300 short of my position.

Not so much for grenadier , Anet is about to nerf it into the ground. They plan to
reduce the range to 900. which for my application , makes it useless

Bensozia.8071:

BrettM.9062:

Coldtart.4785:

Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Good thing my engi can do it from 1500 away, so the ele’s counter-attacks fall 300 short of my position.

Not so much for grenadier , Anet is about to nerf it into the ground. They plan to
reduce the range to 900. which for my application , makes it useless

Mortar is supposed to make up for it – whether or not it does remains to be seen.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Bensozia.8071:

BrettM.9062:

Coldtart.4785:

Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Good thing my engi can do it from 1500 away, so the ele’s counter-attacks fall 300 short of my position.

Not so much for grenadier , Anet is about to nerf it into the ground. They plan to
reduce the range to 900. which for my application , makes it useless

Mortar is supposed to make up for it – whether or not it does remains to be seen.

I agree.
I typically run with grenades and supply crate. So I will be losing supply crate to
get long range attack.
Even then, I don’t think they mentioned what the range will be on the mortar kit.

Bensozia.8071:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Bensozia.8071:

BrettM.9062:

Coldtart.4785:

Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

Good thing my engi can do it from 1500 away, so the ele’s counter-attacks fall 300 short of my position.

Not so much for grenadier , Anet is about to nerf it into the ground. They plan to
reduce the range to 900. which for my application , makes it useless

Mortar is supposed to make up for it – whether or not it does remains to be seen.

I agree.
I typically run with grenades and supply crate. So I will be losing supply crate to
get long range attack.
Even then, I don’t think they mentioned what the range will be on the mortar kit.

in a zerg, crate is just an aoe stun anyways. mortar 5 currently knocks around. with 1/6 the cd. /shrug

Engineers do just fine melee or ranged, pound for pound they are different from but not inferior to any of the GWEN classes. However the emergent first order optimal metagame that arises from the gestalt of GWEN is arguably superior to fielding non GWEN professions even if the player is excellent.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the engineer it’s just that if you are organizing a raid it can often be better to ask that player to run GWEN. That is not the same thing as the engineer being weak or incapable.

Expecting a solo player to be as good as the GWEN gestalt is a stupid comparison.

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

That’s nice. Make a thread about it. This thread isn’t about comparing professions, or even comparing engineer to other profession. It is about the engineer in a large force.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

If engineer is inferior to other classes you shouldn’t use it if you want to win.

Then you shouldn’t play it if you cannot win with it. Personally I thrive with it as a T1 server commander.

Simply because you and how you build or play it gives you limitations, does not mean others have that problem. I enjoy the profession. So I think outside the box and run unique builds and thrive, both having fun on a personal level and winning.

T1 blobmanding is supposed to impress me? When they weren’t WPing away from us t1 blobs were hilariously easy kills for our 15 man gvg team during seasons. Just because you can ‘thrive’ with it doesn’t mean it isn’t worse.

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

Coldtart.4785:

There’s a lot more to support than blasting fields that eles are better at placing in the first place. Virtually everything a warrior, guard or ele can do is aoe and eles can do it from 1200 away.

That’s nice. Make a thread about it. This thread isn’t about comparing professions, or even comparing engineer to other profession. It is about the engineer in a large force.

McWolfy.5924:

coglin.1867:

McWolfy.5924:

Emgis have a nice pull skill but thats all.

And blocks, and lots of protection, and AoE blinds, and and plenty of vigor, and-73 damage when CCed. But ya, your right. That’s just about it.

And are they share it with the party? Necros have pulsing blind field, guas have party might, prot, regen, stability, retal, warrs have party vigor and kittenload of blasts, haste.

Yes, yes they can share it with their Parties. I use Fumigate to remove more conditions in my allies then any other profession can do. I run bomb kit and keep an AoE 300 heal on my party with it, as well as 12 stacks of might from blasting my fire field. As well as the heal from super elixir. The list goes on and on and on and on.

If you really have to ask if engineers can share buff with their party, then your likely not familiar enough with the profession to attempt to have a discussion about their capabilities.

If engineer is inferior to other classes you shouldn’t use it if you want to win.

Then you shouldn’t play it if you cannot win with it. Personally I thrive with it as a T1 server commander.

Simply because you and how you build or play it gives you limitations, does not mean others have that problem. I enjoy the profession. So I think outside the box and run unique builds and thrive, both having fun on a personal level and winning.

T1 blobmanding is supposed to impress me? When they weren’t WPing away from us t1 blobs were hilariously easy kills for our 15 man gvg team during seasons. Just because you can ‘thrive’ with it doesn’t mean it isn’t worse.

Worse then what? This thread is not about profession comparison.

Anyone can claim they did something similarly to your claim, it neither makes it true or relacent. If you do not like playing the engineer in a large force, by all means do not. There is no such game mode as GvG so that is not relacent here either.

The thread title specifically states “zerg”, so please stay on topic or post your off topic exploits in a thread relavent to the topic and refrain from attempting to derail this thread to your personal, off topic aganda.

Engineers are great for zerging, just like thiefs are great AoE healers!!!

Of course there are classes who can do it a lot more efficiently but meh

The original post was about being told to use his warrior instead of his engi. Comparing professions is absolutely relevant.

How good a class is at anything is a purely qualitative measure. It’s absolutely meaningless to present a class in a vacuum because they don’t exist in a vacuum. Engi can only be called good or bad at anything relative to the other classes.

Coldtart.4785:

The original post was about being told to use his warrior instead of his engi. Comparing professions is absolutely relevant.

How good a class is at anything is a purely qualitative measure. It’s absolutely meaningless to present a class in a vacuum because they don’t exist in a vacuum. Engi can only be called good or bad at anything relative to the other classes.

How many hours do you have in WvW on your engineer and what engineer builds are you using to make your conclusions?

Complaining that he has a warrior and his guild asking him to play it, is not a comparison.

Assuming your can play engi at high level it is one of the best classes for zerging/roaming. Running Celest mix stats with 3xkit rifle/bomb/Eg/tk. You have lots of aoe dmg, Lots of heals from two water fields, Elixir infused bombs, EG super Elixir and you will give lots of regen and condition remvoal( EG and healing turret).

You have fire fields for might and smoke field for blinds or it can prevent stomps, aid in retreat or step up spikes from stealth. You have CC via Bob and rifle. With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power. Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them in and immob then cc them.

Engi is absolutely amazing for zerging lots of guild are just ignorant of engi capabilities. Also other classes like war are easy to play but engi can potential be more useful it just takes more focus and skill to play.

vincecontix.1264:

Assuming your can play engi at high level it is one of the best classes for zerging/roaming. Running Celest mix stats with 3xkit rifle/bomb/Eg/tk. You have lots of aoe dmg, Lots of heals from two water fields, Elixir infused bombs, EG super Elixir and you will give lots of regen and condition remvoal( EG and healing turret).

You have fire fields for might and smoke field for blinds or it can prevent stomps, aid in retreat or step up spikes from stealth. You have CC via Bob and rifle. With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power. Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them in and immob then cc them.

Engi is absolutely amazing for zerging lots of guild are just ignorant of engi capabilities. Also other classes like war are easy to play but engi can potential be more useful it just takes more focus and skill to play.

Wrong, great class for roaming/small group, but sub-par for zerging, a few of the reasons why:

- engi waterfields are sub par to ele, firstly healing turret is also engy heal, ele waterfields are in addition to the heal, secondly ele waterfields can be placed at range so you can place the large one as melee imapct as a cleanse / to blast into.

- Damage, every single damage option for engy is sub-par, nades/FT are subject to retal and good groups have retal up a lot, FT is also short tange which engy struggles with, bombs are too slow, they are fine if you are bunkered up in a choke point with opposition coming on to you, they are terrible in open field against a good group that move a lot. Also in terms of ranged burst damage Necro/ele do far more.

- “Fire fields for might”, they aren’t needed guardians have might covered, in 2012 zergs used fire fields, for a long time it has simply been empower.

- “You have CC via Bob” – firstly is slow, secondly does the opposite to what you want in most cases, e.g – you want a section of your opponents pulled/immobilized into a well bomb, not knocked out of it.

- “With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power”, problem is bombs are slow, they are also frontline, engy has the most useless stability in the game, so is basically like a necro in that it is reliant on being in a party with two guards, difference is necro delivers far more burst AOE damage and also provides well of corruption and corrupt boon which is maybe the best skill for focusing enemy commander. Rifle has similar problems, best damage is done close range, group has to switch out a warrior or necro for an engy that contributes less overall.

- “Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them”, yes good skill, but again, why bother with an engy when other classes do the focus thing better, mes, ranger and necro can do more single focus damage at range than an engy, plus a thief & mes can go deep and get out in a way an engy can’t.

Maybe afer the trait changes / specialisation engy will be better, it will have on demand stability with juggenaut, a melee weapon (I think), looks like it will be healing/blast finishig monster with some of the new traits, but until then there is a reason people don’t use it, and whilst lots of WvW players are bad, you might like to consider that at least a small proportion of players are very good (some played in ESL / were top 50 ranked in team queue etc) and are not as clueless as you might think.

Wrong? He gave a accurate depiction of capabilities.

You use “elementalist” as your argument? What does ele have to do with anything? This is not an ele or engie discussion. Nor is it a *percieved" optimal build or profession discussion.

The only way you can declare any one as “wrong” is if you can either definitively prove the profession as subpar in general, or if you confuse your subjective opinion with that of objective fact.

LOL, you’ve already been told by others comparing to what other professions bring is relevant, a class is only good or bad relative to other classes, listing what is does in splendid isolation is meaningless, but keep ranting away as if engy exists in a vacuum, rather than making any actual substantive point, it is funny.

zinkz.7045:

LOL, you’ve already been told by others comparing to what other professions bring is relevant, a class is only good or bad relative to other classes, listing what is does in splendid isolation is meaningless, but keep ranting away as if engy exists in a vacuum, rather than making any actual substantive point, it is funny.

No. I didn’t suggest to you anything about comparing professuons. I specifically mentioned comparing to the elementalist. The OP specifically stated his 2 leveled professions, and the elementalist was not one of threm. Which makes It quit specifically irrelavent to the conversation.

That aside, I felt your analysis of the engineer was very poor. When you look at a profession in such a no or row scope as you did, you limit the discussion in an artificial manner that doesn’t benefit the conversation.

zinkz.7045:

vincecontix.1264:

Assuming your can play engi at high level it is one of the best classes for zerging/roaming. Running Celest mix stats with 3xkit rifle/bomb/Eg/tk. You have lots of aoe dmg, Lots of heals from two water fields, Elixir infused bombs, EG super Elixir and you will give lots of regen and condition remvoal( EG and healing turret).

You have fire fields for might and smoke field for blinds or it can prevent stomps, aid in retreat or step up spikes from stealth. You have CC via Bob and rifle. With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power. Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them in and immob then cc them.

Engi is absolutely amazing for zerging lots of guild are just ignorant of engi capabilities. Also other classes like war are easy to play but engi can potential be more useful it just takes more focus and skill to play.

Wrong, great class for roaming/small group, but sub-par for zerging, a few of the reasons why:

- engi waterfields are sub par to ele, firstly healing turret is also engy heal, ele waterfields are in addition to the heal, secondly ele waterfields can be placed at range so you can place the large one as melee imapct as a cleanse / to blast into.

- Damage, every single damage option for engy is sub-par, nades/FT are subject to retal and good groups have retal up a lot, FT is also short tange which engy struggles with, bombs are too slow, they are fine if you are bunkered up in a choke point with opposition coming on to you, they are terrible in open field against a good group that move a lot. Also in terms of ranged burst damage Necro/ele do far more.

- “Fire fields for might”, they aren’t needed guardians have might covered, in 2012 zergs used fire fields, for a long time it has simply been empower.

- “You have CC via Bob” – firstly is slow, secondly does the opposite to what you want in most cases, e.g – you want a section of your opponents pulled/immobilized into a well bomb, not knocked out of it.

- “With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power”, problem is bombs are slow, they are also frontline, engy has the most useless stability in the game, so is basically like a necro in that it is reliant on being in a party with two guards, difference is necro delivers far more burst AOE damage and also provides well of corruption and corrupt boon which is maybe the best skill for focusing enemy commander. Rifle has similar problems, best damage is done close range, group has to switch out a warrior or necro for an engy that contributes less overall.

- “Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them”, yes good skill, but again, why bother with an engy when other classes do the focus thing better, mes, ranger and necro can do more single focus damage at range than an engy, plus a thief & mes can go deep and get out in a way an engy can’t.

Maybe afer the trait changes / specialisation engy will be better, it will have on demand stability with juggenaut, a melee weapon (I think), looks like it will be healing/blast finishig monster with some of the new traits, but until then there is a reason people don’t use it, and whilst lots of WvW players are bad, you might like to consider that at least a small proportion of players are very good (some played in ESL / were top 50 ranked in team queue etc) and are not as clueless as you might think.

I might add that everything I listed an engi can do it all in one build. I know some good guilds that actually run engi because they have someone competent that can play it. I also used to be consistently in top 50 sq and here is a video of my engi is an ESL match its actually quite similar to the build I described https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Z6wJzH37Y

An engi could easily replace few wars in the frontline though has been been a bit of a shift to pirateship meta but the change to stab is favourable for the engi.

coglin.1867:

zinkz.7045:

LOL, you’ve already been told by others comparing to what other professions bring is relevant, a class is only good or bad relative to other classes, listing what is does in splendid isolation is meaningless, but keep ranting away as if engy exists in a vacuum, rather than making any actual substantive point, it is funny.

No. I didn’t suggest to you anything about comparing professuons. I specifically mentioned comparing to the elementalist. The OP specifically stated his 2 leveled professions, and the elementalist was not one of threm. Which makes It quit specifically irrelavent to the conversation.

That aside, I felt your analysis of the engineer was very poor. When you look at a profession in such a no or row scope as you did, you limit the discussion in an artificial manner that doesn’t benefit the conversation.

You complained because I compared some aspects to ele, comparing to other professions is entirely relevant to his question “is engineer bad for zerging”, that is how you gauge the relative strength of professions.

Using your “logic” necro is a great for PvE, because apparently comparing to other professions isn’t relevant, but back on planet earth, comparisons to other professions and if it is worth a spot in the group are entirely relevant, just like they are for engy in WvW.

My assessment of the engineer is fine, there is a reason most guilds don’t even recruit them, they are simply sub-par, maybe if you had a better grasp of the game you would realize that.

The only thing that doesn’t “benefit the conversation” is your continued efforts to take it off topic into how people should argue, rather than address the actual points, but then that is nothing new.

vincecontix.1264:

I might add that everything I listed an engi can do it all in one build. I know some good guilds that actually run engi because they have someone competent that can play it. I also used to be consistently in top 50 sq and here is a video of my engi is an ESL match its actually quite similar to the build I described https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Z6wJzH37Y

An engi could easily replace few wars in the frontline though has been been a bit of a shift to pirateship meta but the change to stab is favourable for the engi.

If you replace warrior with engy, you make the group weaker overall, becasue what engy offers is inferior to warrior shouts, warhorn, fast AOE CC, and maybe the most important skill in the game, especially with the commander focus – warbanner, things like waterfield are redundant because you have eles casting their large waterfield from range/small on regroup, and bombs are still useless because they are too slow with the damage/CC.

As fro ESL and tPVP, my point was not about you, it was in reference to your comment that players in guilds are ignorant to engies, that is nonsense, there are plenty of players in the better guilds who are also good PvP players, some have played ESL, many reached top end of the leaderboards at various times, they are aware of the strengths and weaknesses of engies, the simple reality is engies do not offer enough, it is not as if people are picky, these are guilds that will focus drivers, abuse venom share, etc, if engy worked people would use it.

All I can suggest is you ask someone from a good guild like Chemsorly next time he streams why they don’t use engies (he has explained the issues with engies before).

zinkz.7045:

As fro ESL and tPVP, my point was not about you, it was in reference to your comment that players in guilds are ignorant to engies, that is nonsense, there are plenty of players in the better guilds who are also good PvP players […]

All I can suggest is you ask someone from a good guild like Chemsorly next time he streams why they don’t use engies (he has explained the issues with engies before).

multiple players from those kind of guilds have come into threads like these and demonstrated theyre absolutely clueless about the capabilities of engis and/or have never played engi before, yet they argue vehemently that engi is bad cuz it isnt gwen

>.>

Not sure what the complaint is, since it is a known fact that the number one and number two ranked GvG teams both use at least one engineer in their competitive play. I have no idea where the false claim that no GvG teams use them. Perhaps those arguing that are not even familiar with the scene or not up to date.

Zinks, if you do not like engineers in large scale combat, that is fine, your welcome to obstain from playing one, but as this thread is specifically about “Zerging” (see thread title) we would appreciate it if you stay on topic and stop trying to make this about GvG, PvP, or small scale combat (the later two are commonly used to deem engineers OP).

In large scale forces, they do extremely well. the entire over rated “GWEN” sheeple should know by know that the stability change kicked the crutch out from under that unoriginal pattern.