Guild Wars 2

My crystal ball tells me that come the end of the season, when the rewards are dished out, if the items rewarded for higher placed finishing worlds are significantly greater then for those finishing lower down the leagues, there is going to be a massive and quite justified player complaints.

If, as has been stated, finishing the meta achievement is a requirement of receiving the end of season reward(s) then surely those on lower population worlds with less regular wvw players deserve larger, not smaller rewards on account that finishing the meta achievement would have been much more difficult for them.

I am hoping (but given past performance) not confident that this time the Devs have thought this through from a player perspective. If not, hopefully by discussing this issue now before it arises, any ill thought out plans that for example; involved handing out pre-cursors to winning worlds only, can be changed and another bout of mass player discontent avoided.

There are different difficulties on each side. I’m on SoR right now, and I have about 2 hours to play a night. Right now at least half of that time waiting in a queue, and when I do get in, I’m lucky to be able to find a yak on the map that isn’t lagged halfway across the zone. There have been no keep captures on either side during any of my time online.

So it could be worse You could be in T1.

most of them will be greens and blues.. don’t worry.. they will be fair…

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

azizul.8469:

most of them will be greens and blues.. don’t worry.. they will be fair…

Nah it will be a mini.

It’s cute that you think there might be decent rewards given to anybody. Rewards will be terrible either way.

Jayne.9251:

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

queuing times aside, if this is true then another huge mistake is in the offing.

My guess is that the rewards that are currently being considered will indeed be quite substantial which is grossly unfair to players who complete the meta achievement in the worlds which finish in the lower places, regardless of the tier.

Now I’m wondering if this isn’t Devon’s master plan for playing in NSP. They are sure to finish on last or second last place of silver NA and then the guy will say: “See?nothing bad with finishing in last place, I got my reward and am a happy camper”

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

queuing times aside, if this is true then another huge mistake is in the offing.

My guess is that the rewards that are currently being considered will indeed be quite substantial which is grossly unfair to players who complete the meta achievement in the worlds which finish in the lower places, regardless of the tier.

Nope. I’ll repost this again, from Sept. 27 —- almost a month before the leagues started, with a full week of either free/reduced fees for transfers so people could decide for themselves:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d just like to make a note of one thing that I think people aren’t considering when they transfer to stacked worlds. You will not, repeat will not, be able to receive the reward based on overall world place in the league, unless you achieve the meta achievement for the season. If you aren’t able to get into WvW much, you won’t get the rewards. So it is absolutely taking a risk to transfer to a world that has a large WvW population.

It’s not like people weren’t told.

Jayne.9251:

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

queuing times aside, if this is true then another huge mistake is in the offing.

My guess is that the rewards that are currently being considered will indeed be quite substantial which is grossly unfair to players who complete the meta achievement in the worlds which finish in the lower places, regardless of the tier.

Nope. I’ll repost this again, from Sept. 27 —- almost a month before the leagues started, with a full week of either free/reduced fees for transfers so people could decide for themselves:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d just like to make a note of one thing that I think people aren’t considering when they transfer to stacked worlds. You will not, repeat will not, be able to receive the reward based on overall world place in the league, unless you achieve the meta achievement for the season. If you aren’t able to get into WvW much, you won’t get the rewards. So it is absolutely taking a risk to transfer to a world that has a large WvW population.

It’s not like people weren’t told.

Then it is going to cause a storm of protests – if any substantial rewards (per-cursors/ascended items etc) are being considered they should be tied to the completion of the meta achievement by the player NOT by the position of the world on which he/she happens to inhabit.

Any rewards tied to the placing in the respective tiers need to be cosmetic only.

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

This is about a competition. Giving universal rewards to everyone would undervalue the meaning. I mean why fight to do the best for your server if everyone winds up getting the same reward?

Couple this with the fact that all this info has been out at least a month so everyone could make an informed decision … sorry, I think if the server that wins the league gets an ascended or precursor, good for them, I had as equal an opportunity to switch servers as anyone else.

Edited to add: you’ll also note he says that top of all leagues, bronze, silver, gold, will likely get better rewards than bottom of any league. So regardless of your league, it’s a reason to get out there and push for your server.

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

This is about a competition. Giving universal rewards to everyone would undervalue the meaning. I mean why fight to do the best for your server if everyone winds up getting the same reward?

I’m not suggesting that every one should get the same reward, Players on those worlds who finish in the higher places can all have a nice big shiny halo above their heads that lasts until the end of season 2 to show how special they are or a Gold minipet instead of a silver or bronze one – but if they hand out per-cursors and the like to the top placed worlds and yellows and greens to the bottom placed ones There WILL be a lot of dis-satisfied players.

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

So we were supposed to pay whatever amount we have to move and move away from our server mates and guildies to the server we considered had the best chance of winning?

As has been discussed winning is only really representative of coverage so how is it fair that significant rewards are based on that?

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

This is about a competition. Giving universal rewards to everyone would undervalue the meaning. I mean why fight to do the best for your server if everyone winds up getting the same reward?

I’m not suggesting that every one should get the same reward, Players on those worlds who finish in the higher places can all have a nice big shiny halo above their heads that lasts until the end of season 2 to show how special they are or a Gold minipet instead of a silver or bronze one – but if they hand out per-cursors and the like to the top placed worlds and yellows and greens to the bottom placed ones There WILL be a lot of dis-satisfied players.

Well too bad. everyone had equal opportunity.

There should be substantial incentive for people to get out there and work hard for their server. A new skin or a mini pet isn’t going to cut it, and likely would result in significant participation drop for the next season.

However, if season one winners get something substantial, you can pretty much guarantee mass turn out for season two —- with all considerations (which everyone was warned about early), like queues and rank, etc…

In the meantime, get out there, support your server and help it gain as much as you can for this season.

morrolan.9608:

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

So we were supposed to pay whatever amount we have to move and move away from our server mates and guildies to the server we considered had the best chance of winning?

As has been discussed winning is only really representative of coverage so how is it fair that significant rewards are based on that?

If the brand new shiny is that important to you, then yes. If you value your ties with friends and just love playing the game with them, then no. The key here: everyone had a choice … In some cases to medium pop server, it didn’t even cost you anything.

And as has been discovered, coverage leads to queues which risks your chances of even completing the achievements. It all balances out really.

morrolan.9608:

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

As has been discussed winning is only really representative of coverage so how is it fair that significant rewards are based on that?

Coverage is a lot of it, but not all of it. Good commanders, disciplined players, well placed siege, good zerg positioning, supply disruption, player skill, many strategic decisions add up over time, many more, etc.

Flip side – a server’s recruiting & organizing for coverage (as it currently stands) is part of the WvW meta. Annoying but true.

I do wish coverage mattered MUCH less than it does though.

Jayne.9251:

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

This is about a competition. Giving universal rewards to everyone would undervalue the meaning. I mean why fight to do the best for your server if everyone winds up getting the same reward?

I’m not suggesting that every one should get the same reward, Players on those worlds who finish in the higher places can all have a nice big shiny halo above their heads that lasts until the end of season 2 to show how special they are or a Gold minipet instead of a silver or bronze one – but if they hand out per-cursors and the like to the top placed worlds and yellows and greens to the bottom placed ones There WILL be a lot of dis-satisfied players.

Well too bad. everyone had equal opportunity.

There should be substantial incentive for people to get out there and work hard for their server. A new skin or a mini pet isn’t going to cut it, and likely would result in significant participation drop for the next season.

However, if season one winners get something substantial, you can pretty much guarantee mass turn out for season two —- with all considerations (which everyone was warned about early), like queues and rank, etc…

In the meantime, get out there, support your server and help it gain as much as you can for this season.

So in effect you are supporting my argument?

By saying that everyone had the opportunity to change to a different server, are you not correctly identifying that anyone who plays wvw regularly knows that there are some servers which (for whatever reason) are never going to finish near the top of their tiers and therefore basing rewards on server performance alone, is inherently unfair?

Jayne.9251:

And as has been discovered, coverage leads to queues which risks your chances of even completing the achievements. It all balances out really.

Not really, hardcore WvW players will easily complete the achievements even with queues.

morrolan.9608:

Jayne.9251:

And as has been discovered, coverage leads to queues which risks your chances of even completing the achievements. It all balances out really.

Not really, hardcore WvW players will easily complete the achievements even with queues.

Lol, that true. But there sure are an awful lot of threads complaining And even more so, those guys had to work twice as hard (or at least be patient enough to wait twice as long, egad)?to get them done, they should get something significant for their dedication.

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

Don’t agree. Everyone had equal opportunity to move to whatever server they felt would offer them the greatest challenge, and, if rewards were key to gameplay, server league position. Medium population servers were actually free to transfer to for that week.

This is about a competition. Giving universal rewards to everyone would undervalue the meaning. I mean why fight to do the best for your server if everyone winds up getting the same reward?

I’m not suggesting that every one should get the same reward, Players on those worlds who finish in the higher places can all have a nice big shiny halo above their heads that lasts until the end of season 2 to show how special they are or a Gold minipet instead of a silver or bronze one – but if they hand out per-cursors and the like to the top placed worlds and yellows and greens to the bottom placed ones There WILL be a lot of dis-satisfied players.

Well too bad. everyone had equal opportunity.

There should be substantial incentive for people to get out there and work hard for their server. A new skin or a mini pet isn’t going to cut it, and likely would result in significant participation drop for the next season.

However, if season one winners get something substantial, you can pretty much guarantee mass turn out for season two —- with all considerations (which everyone was warned about early), like queues and rank, etc…

In the meantime, get out there, support your server and help it gain as much as you can for this season.

So in effect you are supporting my argument?

By saying that everyone had the opportunity to change to a different server, are you not correctly identifying that anyone who plays wvw regularly knows that there are some servers which (for whatever reason) are never going to finish near the top of their tiers and therefore basing rewards on server performance alone, is inherently unfair?

Lol that’s false logic.

I said it depends on what you value. If winning a big prize is important to you, and it was outlined quite clearly for almost two months now, you, your friends all had the opportunity to move. Even within your league. It doesn’t mean adding to the gold league arms race, because we are seeing people complaining that they can’t get in. It’s about making a choice that’s right for you.

Myself? I don’t really care what the rewards are at the end … in fact I’d wager most who regularly WvW see it as inconsequential. However, for some, they want that carrot, and anet gave plenty of warning for those who are so inclined.

Honestly if they wind up rewarding the winners with some kind of fluff, next season will offer no incentive for people to get in there and really truly fight for their server.

Jayne.9251:

Daroon.1736:

Jayne.9251:

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

queuing times aside, if this is true then another huge mistake is in the offing.

My guess is that the rewards that are currently being considered will indeed be quite substantial which is grossly unfair to players who complete the meta achievement in the worlds which finish in the lower places, regardless of the tier.

Nope. I’ll repost this again, from Sept. 27 —- almost a month before the leagues started, with a full week of either free/reduced fees for transfers so people could decide for themselves:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d just like to make a note of one thing that I think people aren’t considering when they transfer to stacked worlds. You will not, repeat will not, be able to receive the reward based on overall world place in the league, unless you achieve the meta achievement for the season. If you aren’t able to get into WvW much, you won’t get the rewards. So it is absolutely taking a risk to transfer to a world that has a large WvW population.

It’s not like people weren’t told.

It’s been said time and time again: What about those customers who chose their world upon release and never transferred? Worse yet, what if your world became stacked as a result of Anet opening up free transfers? Absolutely no room for legitimate complaint?

In the words of the devs: WvW was never intended to be fair.

I agree that if the rewards are good, turnout for season 2 will be guaranteed. This is all about choices, if you care more about server loyalty, then make your server a viable candidate for the top spots. Ifyou care about rewards then transferring might be an option for you.

Jayne.9251:

There should be substantial incentive for people to get out there and work hard for their server.

Are you implying that people who fled to the highranked servers are working harder than those facing impossible odds and still trying to do what they can?

I’m on Underworld and it was clear from the beginning that we would end up last in EU Silver League.This means we actually have to work harder on many occasions to get things done. A big gap in rewards based on server performance would no doubt be unfair, because the end-score to a certain degree already was set before the season even began.

It’s like making one pupil from each grade, 1 trough 9, fight each other and telling them that who wins the most fights gets the most candy in the end.

Jayne.9251:

From Sept. 1:

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

Yes that makes sence. Abandon the low rank server of each league and move to lower league top servers to make those leagues also more imbalanced. Seriously? So we at kodash should have left our server in EU, gold league, rank 9 and move to a bronze top 3 server? Let kodash have the 7 most terrible weeks and roflstomp the lower rank servers of the other leagues?
Good logic. I don’t see how it solves the stacked server problem.

Garrisyl.7402:

It’s like making one pupil from each grade, 1 trough 9, fight each other and telling them that who wins most fights in the end gets the most candy.

Lol nice comparison

Garrisyl.7402:

Jayne.9251:

There should be substantial incentive for people to get out there and work hard for their server.

Are you implying that people who fled to the highranked servers are working harder than those facing impossible odds and still trying to do what they can?

I’m on Underworld and it was clear from the beginning that we would end up last in EU Silver League.This means we actually have to work harder on many occasions to get things done. A big gap in rewards based on server performance would no doubt be unfair, because the end-score to a certain degree already was set before the season even began.

It’s like making one pupil from each grade, 1 trough 9, fight each other and telling them that who wins the most fights gets the most candy in the end.

So True – We are in the same league as underworld and have played them regularly in the past – anyone on that server that manages to complete the meta-achievement is working much harder than those servers which will inevitably beat them in the league and absolutely deserves equal or better rewards than those that had an easier time completing them on worlds which are better populated or have a higher percentage of regular wvw players.