Guild Wars 2

Epidemic is a bit too strong in wvw at the moment. Agree? Disagree? Why? When you respond, please include whether you agree/disagree in the very first sentence of your response. I’m curious if others really agree or not.

I think it’s too strong, therefore I’ll suggest some changes that would only be applicable to wvw.

Change #1: Make it blockable. (Not a fan of this one.. won’t help solve much.)
Change #2: Make condis have a set duration just like boon/condition conversion.
Change #3: Maximum spread of conditions set to a specific number.
Change #4: Make the animation on whoever is targeted more readable.
Change #5: Total rework of the skill. The possibilities are endless with this one.
Change #6: Increase cool down. (Not a fan of this either.)
Change #7: Non damaging conditions do not transfer. Or, damaging conditions do not transfer.
Change #8: (I like this one.) Foe becomes corrupted. All conditions on target are ‘remembered’ at the time of cast. Those conditions are pulsed to nearby foes at a rate of 1 condition per second until all conditions have been transferred. Meaning that if you cast epidemic on someone with 10 conditions, it will take 10 seconds for all of those conditions to transfer to nearby foes. This adds counterplay to the skill by allowing for people to move away and out of the corrupted ally as fast as possible, much in the same way that people would need to move out of AoE’s to avoid the damage. This is a very interesting change proposal.

Shoot, what you do guys think then?

It would be easier and equally as effective to simply remove Epidemic from the game. Let’s also remove skill bars all together, it’s a balancing nightmare !

Ultra Hades.4691:

It would be easier and equally as effective to simply remove Epidemic from the game. Let’s also remove skill bars all together, it’s a balancing nightmare !

Cool.

Honestly don’t care, Necro aren’t very strong compared to the other classes….not in roaming and small group fights anyways. They are actually one of my favourite classes to fight…..since they are easy to stomp (resistance OR stability ALWAYS works on the first go), they don’t have kitten unfair downed abilities, they don’t dodge a million times, they don’t stealth, they don’t port away, they don’t move fast, they don’t kitten heal everything around them instantly, they have a shorter range and can be kited without too much pain, they don’t abuse the ooc system.

HOnestly I’d call them one of the poster child classes of the game. Everyone else is battling it out in the battle of the OP vs the OP….nice to have a class that doesn’t rely on such gimmicks (their freeze ult is one of the exceptions tho).

Just my thoughts….don’t shoot me for my lack of care for the zerg meta…not that any zerglings can aim.

At least in NA T1, Epidemic is currently being used pretty extensively in both roaming groups and large groups, I feel a lot of that is due to how spammable epidemic is, I’m perfectly fine with epidemic having a large reward for landing it, but its probally too spammable for how strong it can be at a 15 second cooldown.

Boonshare meta used to be the key to effectively kill things like epi. With boonshare gone, you pretty much left with only herald’s pain absorb as the next biggest resistance provider.

If you make epi blockable, it does makes a lot of difference as the chance to land it become subjective.

Boonshare was pretty stupid and it had to be nerfed. The good thing of epidemic is that it rewards team play. It’s useless when people spam it and it has to be focused on a specific target to work.
And finally you can’t nerf epidemic without making necro another class not viable in wvw.

New players and their l2p issues. Epidemic was much better before and there wasn’t even total condi immunity boon in game and still epidemic wasn’t any kind of problem. After they nerf epidemic players probably start to whine about barrage or something. It makes crazy damage when 20 rangers shoot it same time. Maybe they should just nerf all kind of team play because it’s kind of unfair that other side have some kind of battle plan and other zerg just smash buttons random times.

Make zerg, counter builds. “Save yourself”…convert conditions into boons. Resistance. Condi removers… range attack?? Pew pew wont help? What class can defeat necro? Whats the fun in game if everything fun needs to be nerf. And never learn to counter them? Maybe finally someone can bring those class in the game that wasn’t in meta or wanted by wvw group to counter new meta.

Sure, let’s remove every class’ most powerful ability. Equality, right?

Funny. Everyone is having issues with this but me. I play a DH and have noticed since the last changes Necros are much easier to take down lol.

Tbh, it’s always a good idea to save a condi cleanse when fighting a necro/reaper in case of epidemic. Something learned the hard way by some.

IMO I think epi is fine (I rarely play my necro). Its only really good vs downed opponents or if you count dodges (as it can be dodged and is somewhat predictable).

If a change is made, maybe increase CD a bit, but that’s all. It boils down to learning to watch for things like that. (so I guess a l2p issue)

Before any kind of nerf on necros first buff their sustain. after that you can even remove epi from game.

shagwell.1349:

And finally you can’t nerf epidemic without making necro another class not viable in wvw.

Say what?

Necros have been in the meta forever not because of Epidemic, but because of really strong utility and direct damage. Even if Epidemic got completely removed, Necro/Reapers will still be one of the most sort after classes for WvW groups

My guild doesn’t use condi necros because power necros are still viable and still fun to play. Producing downs on every single well bomb is still satisfying. Nerfing Epidemic won’t do a thing to necro.

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

Haha these bronze invaders sure have good ideas.

Reverence.6915:

shagwell.1349:

And finally you can’t nerf epidemic without making necro another class not viable in wvw.

Say what?

Necros have been in the meta forever not because of Epidemic, but because of really strong utility and direct damage. Even if Epidemic got completely removed, Necro/Reapers will still be one of the most sort after classes for WvW groups

My guild doesn’t use condi necros because power necros are still viable and still fun to play. Producing downs on every single well bomb is still satisfying. Nerfing Epidemic won’t do a thing to necro.

Power necro is one of most boring and braindead specs to play.

Junkpile.7439:

Reverence.6915:

shagwell.1349:

And finally you can’t nerf epidemic without making necro another class not viable in wvw.

Say what?

Necros have been in the meta forever not because of Epidemic, but because of really strong utility and direct damage. Even if Epidemic got completely removed, Necro/Reapers will still be one of the most sort after classes for WvW groups

My guild doesn’t use condi necros because power necros are still viable and still fun to play. Producing downs on every single well bomb is still satisfying. Nerfing Epidemic won’t do a thing to necro.

Power necro is one of most boring and braindead specs to play.

I disagree.

While it may not be totally natural (but again, personal preference), as necros are “historically” (based on fiction of course) known as the commanders of the dead and spreaders of plagues, similar to witch doctors, in this game they wield greater power than many other classes.

If I wanted I could go with base power 2.7k and up easily. But even as low as 2.2k deals interesting amounts of damage. Take shroud into account and you have one highly resilient melee-range mage.

I too might enjoy them more probably if it was more viable to go condi w/ minions, but minions are a joke since they cannot be controlled and stop at every mob in PVE and are appalling in PVP.

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

That’d make the skill almost completely useless in literally every game mode.

Reverence.6915:

shagwell.1349:

And finally you can’t nerf epidemic without making necro another class not viable in wvw.

Say what?

Necros have been in the meta forever not because of Epidemic, but because of really strong utility and direct damage. Even if Epidemic got completely removed, Necro/Reapers will still be one of the most sort after classes for WvW groups

My guild doesn’t use condi necros because power necros are still viable and still fun to play. Producing downs on every single well bomb is still satisfying. Nerfing Epidemic won’t do a thing to necro.

Sorry, can’t take you BG guys serious. I saw you fighting against Mag and JQ and you got wiped even when you outnumbered them. Your only survival tactic was heavy pin sniping.
Sorry, man, really..

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

And while we are at it, we make reveal debuff last 120 seconds and cut thieves energy generation by 50%.
Elementalists get a cooldown of 60 seconds on attunement change.
Guardians ..

See the point?

Disagree, Epidemic is not the problem, how Conditions function is the main issue. I won’t get into details because its been brought up numerous times but there is so much wrong with how Conditions function, can be stacked, damage done, application ease, and ease of gearing.

Epidemic is just the messenger, don’t shoot the messenger.

uh oh don’t let the fractal reapers hear about this thread.

Remove the ability to use on siege and keep lords…. other than that the skill is fine.

It’s situational at best, has a long cast time with an extremely unique animation.. can get obstructed by a blade of grass.

The pay-off for landing one is great, and so it should be.

shagwell.1349:

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

And while we are at it, we make reveal debuff last 120 seconds and cut thieves energy generation by 50%.
Elementalists get a cooldown of 60 seconds on attunement change.
Guardians ..

See the point?

Let me exaggerate nerfing epidemic the way you just exaggerated nerfing other things for other classes.

Epidemic now has a 3 minute cool down. It now only transfers 1 random condi to one other person.

Please add something constructive to the conversation instead of just blowing off the entire thread and some of the responses in it as ridiculous. See the original post change propositions.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Tbh, it’s always a good idea to save a condi cleanse when fighting a necro/reaper in case of epidemic. Something learned the hard way by some.

IMO I think epi is fine (I rarely play my necro). Its only really good vs downed opponents or if you count dodges (as it can be dodged and is somewhat predictable).

If a change is made, maybe increase CD a bit, but that’s all. It boils down to learning to watch for things like that. (so I guess a l2p issue)

For sure. It’s a very strong skill. After reading some responses, I suppose I could agree with a CD increase as being an effective way to limit the power it currently has. 15 seconds traited is absolutely way too low for a skill like that. Make the pay off still high, I can get down with that.

I stopped playing my Necro main because I had lag issues and the fear wall limit and stability buff. Oh the fun times in EotM! I switched to Mesmer so I could blink out of any bad situation.

Now that epidemic is so OP I might switch back to Necro.

Too bad I can rarely find 20 other organized players to run with on FA.

Ugh, here we go… The threads begin en masse and Necro will soon receive yet another nerf.

I’m going to suggest what I think would be the most balanced way to adjust it repeatedly so that if it does happen to get nerfed, perhaps they will go the route of the following suggestion:

Reduce the radius.

There are plenty of blocks going around in zergs, making it blockable is not a fair solution. Neither is making condition damage scale from the source because it then makes the ability too much of a wild card. And again neither is making the amount of stacks it can copy static because proper usage of this ability is what makes it so rewarding. It already has a hard cap on how many conditions it can copy, we don’t need to reduce it further.

It is absolutely a powerful skill, there is no way around that. But it requires stat investment on behalf of the Necro (unlike the problem with Signet Of Inspiration where the Mesmer didn’t need any boon duration. Necro with Epidemic however needs condition damage and duration to get the full benefit from this skill), it has a whole 1 second cast time coming from a class with low access to stability and 8 times out of 10 it will get interrupted, the target will move out of range, will evade or reach downed state before the skill goes off. It’s far more dangerous coming from a co-ordinated group but there aren’t many of those.

I am partially responsible for some of these complaints, I guarantee it. Last night between SMC and Anz I was downing people from the Epi source like dominos left and right. Proper usage of this skill can be devastating but given how often it fails/misses and that it requires heavy stat investment, I’m strongly against the idea of having this nerfed. It isn’t nearly as game changing as Signet Of Inspiration was unless it’s coming from a heavily co-ordinated group. In which case, there are tons of other things that are extremely dangerous as well.

Anet, please… I know how you like to appeal to the whiners but I beg of you, be rational if this skill is going to receive any changes. Let Necro’s have something good. 3 years I’ve been playing it and every time we’re capable of something effective we get our toys taken away from us.

Epidemic is very powerful right now, but considering all the sustain/tank/defensive foods/traits/abilities in game it is badly needed so that at least someone eventually goes down.

When individual duels, or group fights both small and large can last upwards of five minutes I really don’t think nerfing one of the few strong offensive tools left in the game will help anything.

And note, I don’t play necro nor have any investment in the class beyond liking more diversity in WvW.

Caliburn.1845:

Epidemic is very powerful right now, but considering all the sustain/tank/defensive foods/traits/abilities in game it is badly needed so that at least someone eventually goes down.

When individual duels, or group fights both small and large can last upwards of five minutes I really don’t think nerfing one of the few strong offensive tools left in the game will help anything.

And note, I don’t play necro nor have any investment in the class beyond liking more diversity in WvW.

I completely agree about how ridiculous all the sustain in this game is, and I would like to see reasonable nerfs to both epidemic and sustain in general. Don’t get me wrong there. The suggestions I put forth aren’t even incredibly drastic. Nerfs should always be done in a smooth manner.

Change it so condition damage applied from sources that are not the necro, dont scale off of the necros condi damage. Part of the problem (meta shift that people cant seem to adapt to) solved for wvw. but then anyone calls anything op these days.

So many people on these forums seem to not even know how the skill itself functions and im glad non of them are in charge of balancing things and im not saying that im there either.

Akashi.3245:

Change it so condition damage applied from sources that are not the necro, dont scale off of the necros condi damage. Huge part of the problem (that people cant seem to adapt to) solved for wvw

So many people on these forums seem to not even know how the skill itself functions and im glad non of them are in charge of balancing things.

Which would mean when using it while not in a group (solo PvE for example) it would be useless, correct?

The Game Slayer.7632:

shagwell.1349:

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

And while we are at it, we make reveal debuff last 120 seconds and cut thieves energy generation by 50%.
Elementalists get a cooldown of 60 seconds on attunement change.
Guardians ..

See the point?

Let me exaggerate nerfing epidemic the way you just exaggerated nerfing other things for other classes.

Epidemic now has a 3 minute cool down. It now only transfers 1 random condi to one other person.

Please add something constructive to the conversation instead of just blowing off the entire thread and some of the responses in it as ridiculous. See the original post change propositions.

Constructive? You mean like the guy I quoted? That’s not constructive at all. The current meta only has a few classes. Eles are almost out of this meta, as are warriors and the next ones will be necros with a stupid nerf for epidemic.
Epidemic isn’t op. It’s a very situational and not easy to land skill which you can avoid even as a large group.
There are far more stupid skills in the game (ie stealth mechanic, stability) which should have reworked long ago. Instead people discuss a skill that got nerfed before.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic

Necro already is in a bad state in pvp and wvw – with the exception of zergs.

There is no need to dumb down the necro playstyle and the game itself any further. It already has become that in so many ways with all the added passives and new traits.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Akashi.3245:

Change it so condition damage applied from sources that are not the necro, dont scale off of the necros condi damage. Huge part of the problem (that people cant seem to adapt to) solved for wvw

So many people on these forums seem to not even know how the skill itself functions and im glad non of them are in charge of balancing things.

Which would mean when using it while not in a group (solo PvE for example) it would be useless, correct?

No. not entierly

The reason its op in wvw is because anything with 0 condi damage but access to condi will scale 100% the necros condi damage when epi goes off.

a guard can stack say 10 burns. no condi damage on any of his gear and hit for nothing. once the necro epis those 10 stacks its now 10 burns scaling from the necros condition damage not the guards. add more gaurdians and necros to the mix and you see where im going with this (max 25 stacks per epi).

a solo pve necro would still be able to epi his own damage

shagwell.1349:

The Game Slayer.7632:

shagwell.1349:

X T D.6458:

Increase cd to 30-40s
Limit the amount of stacks that can be transferred to 5
Make it blockable

Done.

And while we are at it, we make reveal debuff last 120 seconds and cut thieves energy generation by 50%.
Elementalists get a cooldown of 60 seconds on attunement change.
Guardians ..

See the point?

Let me exaggerate nerfing epidemic the way you just exaggerated nerfing other things for other classes.

Epidemic now has a 3 minute cool down. It now only transfers 1 random condi to one other person.

Please add something constructive to the conversation instead of just blowing off the entire thread and some of the responses in it as ridiculous. See the original post change propositions.

Constructive? You mean like the guy I quoted? That’s not constructive at all. The current meta only has a few classes. Eles are almost out of this meta, as are warriors and the next ones will be necros with a stupid nerf for epidemic.
Epidemic isn’t op. It’s a very situational and not easy to land skill which you can avoid even as a large group.
There are far more stupid skills in the game (ie stealth mechanic, stability) which should have reworked long ago. Instead people discuss a skill that got nerfed before.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Epidemic

Necro already is in a bad state in pvp and wvw – with the exception of zergs.

There is no need to dumb down the necro playstyle and the game itself any further. It already has become that in so many ways with all the added passives and new traits.

Thank you. That was the kind of response I was looking for.

If you’re referring to the WvW meta, that’s incorrect. Most coordinated havoc groups/zerg busters run reapers, eles, and 2 more misc classes to deal with condis and produce CC. (Usually Dh/guard, scrappers, sometimes war, some druids.)

You’re not saying Epidemic is a skill that has already been nerfed and therefore shouldn’t get nerfed, are you? Are you referring to the infinite range bug and LoS bug? Or the condition stack limit? None of those are nerfs, and the only real change is a buff that made it unblockable. I might be missing something here.

Epidemic is definitely not a ‘very situational’ skill. Firstly, traited at a 15s cd, it can be spammed to all hell. The radius is enormous, and it has max aoe potential. I’ll admit that it is indeed a skill-shot, but to insist that it’s a skill that can easily be avoided is something I’ll simply disagree with. It’s just not true. The hardest part about landing epidemic successfully is loading the condis first. When you’re in a havoc group of 5+, you find that the condis are not lacking in the slightest. 15scd, 600 radius, 1200 range to cast, 5 targets, unblockable. Jeeze, that really is about as good as landing a skill gets.

Also, just because there is conversation about one skill, doesn’t mean all other things that were discussed in the past no longer hold any merit. Anet reviewed the conversations, reviewed the game itself, and whatever decision they made they have already made. And so it will be with epidemic. Will they change it in any sort of way? Will they ignore it? I’m not really sure. But when a conversation pops up in the future about another part of the game I’m not going to bring other things up like epidemic and start crying about the past.

No. not entierly
The reason its op in wvw is because anything with 0 condi damage but access to condi will scale 100% the necros condi damage when epi goes off.
a guard can stack say 10 burns. no condi damage on any of his gear and hit for nothing. once the necro epis those 10 stacks its now 10 burns scaling from the necros condition damage not the guards. add more gaurdians and necros to the mix and you see where im going with this (max 25 stacks per epi).
a solo pve necro would still be able to epi his own damage

And this would make the spell useless in pve, pvp and wvw. Nobody cares about solo pve and why would you even consider using it?

The Game Slayer.7632:

Thank you. That was the kind of response I was looking for.

If you’re referring to the WvW meta, that’s incorrect. Most coordinated havoc groups/zerg busters run reapers, eles, and 2 more misc classes to deal with condis and produce CC. (Usually Dh/guard, scrappers, sometimes war, some druids.)

You’re not saying Epidemic is a skill that has already been nerfed and therefore shouldn’t get nerfed, are you? Are you referring to the infinite range bug and LoS bug? Or the condition stack limit? None of those are nerfs, and the only real change is a buff that made it unblockable. I might be missing something here.

Epidemic is definitely not a ‘very situational’ skill. Firstly, traited at a 15s cd, it can be spammed to all hell. The radius is enormous, and it has max aoe potential. I’ll admit that it is indeed a skill-shot, but to insist that it’s a skill that can easily be avoided is something I’ll simply disagree with. It’s just not true. The hardest part about landing epidemic successfully is loading the condis first. When you’re in a havoc group of 5+, you find that the condis are not lacking in the slightest. 15scd, 600 radius, 1200 range to cast, 5 targets, unblockable. Jeeze, that really is about as good as landing a skill gets.

Also, just because there is conversation about one skill, doesn’t mean all other things that were discussed in the past no longer hold any merit. Anet reviewed the conversations, reviewed the game itself, and whatever decision they made they have already made. And so it will be with epidemic. Will they change it in any sort of way? Will they ignore it? I’m not really sure. But when a conversation pops up in the future about another part of the game I’m not going to bring other things up like epidemic and start crying about the past.

The game never was about havoc groups and roaming and never will be. If we start balancing for a niche we can stop balancing at all.
If balancing for havoc group was important to Anet in any way most of the changes to wvw never would have happened and stealth would have been reworked long ago as would have pu mesmer.
The question is why “run 2 ele”. Maybe we should see a nerf here instead? No, we shouldn’t, because no one cares about roaming and havoc – it’s unbalanced territory since the earliest days in wvw. If you want balancing for that, you need to introduce preset stats like in spvp (wonder why no one talks about epidemic there)

And to be honest. I haven’t seen havoc groups without at least two thieves, a mesmer, a druid or ele a long time, I almost never see reapers roaming. (US Tier 1 or 2)

shagwell.1349:

No. not entierly
The reason its op in wvw is because anything with 0 condi damage but access to condi will scale 100% the necros condi damage when epi goes off.
a guard can stack say 10 burns. no condi damage on any of his gear and hit for nothing. once the necro epis those 10 stacks its now 10 burns scaling from the necros condition damage not the guards. add more gaurdians and necros to the mix and you see where im going with this (max 25 stacks per epi).
a solo pve necro would still be able to epi his own damage

And this would make the spell useless in pve, pvp and wvw. Nobody cares about solo pve and why would you even consider using it?

ask yourself. i dont find anything pve fun

end of the day i couldnt care at this point if it got the nerf or not, its mainly people that use condi clear carelessly or take none at all that complain or people who expect to beat everything on the class they play. if they are getting 1 shot by it its a thing called a blob or multiple necros. meta changes. get used to it.

So you want to nerf a skill that can take condi necro out of WvW again? Condi necro has the worst condi dmg, epi is the only reason condi necro is playable in WvW group fights, and pve too.

And before someone start “but my guild run power necro and it work too” . Well, I don’t care who are you and what is your guild, if you have the option to not play condi, let others have the option to play it. This is WvW, not PvE, the game is not build around you and your guild play style. Forcing people play your game because you can’t beat them in their game is just ridiculous.

Remember, when you die in WvW, you have all the time in the world get out of combat to change your build, trait, food … not like PvP you have to stick with what you start until the end, so, please learn how to do it.

There are guilds out there spend time and gold to test builds every new balance patch and create what people called meta. And there are people who just want to play the same stuff for 3-4 years and expect it still work. In that case, PS warrior in PvE seem like the most stable class you can pick.

shagwell.1349:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Thank you. That was the kind of response I was looking for.

If you’re referring to the WvW meta, that’s incorrect. Most coordinated havoc groups/zerg busters run reapers, eles, and 2 more misc classes to deal with condis and produce CC. (Usually Dh/guard, scrappers, sometimes war, some druids.)

You’re not saying Epidemic is a skill that has already been nerfed and therefore shouldn’t get nerfed, are you? Are you referring to the infinite range bug and LoS bug? Or the condition stack limit? None of those are nerfs, and the only real change is a buff that made it unblockable. I might be missing something here.

Epidemic is definitely not a ‘very situational’ skill. Firstly, traited at a 15s cd, it can be spammed to all hell. The radius is enormous, and it has max aoe potential. I’ll admit that it is indeed a skill-shot, but to insist that it’s a skill that can easily be avoided is something I’ll simply disagree with. It’s just not true. The hardest part about landing epidemic successfully is loading the condis first. When you’re in a havoc group of 5+, you find that the condis are not lacking in the slightest. 15scd, 600 radius, 1200 range to cast, 5 targets, unblockable. Jeeze, that really is about as good as landing a skill gets.

Also, just because there is conversation about one skill, doesn’t mean all other things that were discussed in the past no longer hold any merit. Anet reviewed the conversations, reviewed the game itself, and whatever decision they made they have already made. And so it will be with epidemic. Will they change it in any sort of way? Will they ignore it? I’m not really sure. But when a conversation pops up in the future about another part of the game I’m not going to bring other things up like epidemic and start crying about the past.

The game never was about havoc groups and roaming and never will be. If we start balancing for a niche we can stop balancing at all.
If balancing for havoc group was important to Anet in any way most of the changes to wvw never would have happened and stealth would have been reworked long ago as would have pu mesmer.
The question is why “run 2 ele”. Maybe we should see a nerf here instead? No, we shouldn’t, because no one cares about roaming and havoc – it’s unbalanced territory since the earliest days in wvw. If you want balancing for that, you need to introduce preset stats like in spvp (wonder why no one talks about epidemic there)

And to be honest. I haven’t seen havoc groups without at least two thieves, a mesmer, a druid or ele a long time, I almost never see reapers roaming. (US Tier 1 or 2)

It’s a problem in zergs too. That’s why I mentioned zerg busting groups. Stop attacking the straw man.

You run 2 eles so they can heal the necros that are abusing epidemic. Lol. Everyone knows necros have kitten sustain. They should get a buff to sustain and a nerf to epidemic.

The whole amulet and spvp argument is silly. Do you know why amulets and spvp is different than wvw? It allows for a higher tier of skilled players to shine. There is no where to shine in wvw for sheer skill, so balance is not as big of a deal. Also, epidemic is not a problem in spvp because spvp is not about kills. Epidemic might very well be a problem if courtyard still existed. You also need a certain stat combination to make condi builds absurdly strong. (Dire/trailblazer.) Also, epidemic really shines in zergs or really anything that is 10+ people.

If you’re going to assert that balance for wvw is un-important, (and I’m not saying that you said that, but only that you said that for havoc/roaming) then please exit this thread. Otherwise, stop attacking the straw man.

nintama.9436:

So you want to nerf a skill that can take condi necro out of WvW again? Condi necro has the worst condi dmg, epi is the only reason condi necro is playable in WvW group fights, and pve too.

Buddy, I hate to burst your bubble there. A single utility skill as being the major/sole reason that a condi necro is relevant means there’s a problem. A pretty obvious problem. Buff necro in other ways such as sustain/survivability (whatever necro really needs) and nerf epidemic. That’s what you call balance. Huh.

The Game Slayer.7632:

nintama.9436:

So you want to nerf a skill that can take condi necro out of WvW again? Condi necro has the worst condi dmg, epi is the only reason condi necro is playable in WvW group fights, and pve too.

Buddy, I hate to burst your bubble there. A single utility skill as being the major/sole reason that a condi necro is relevant means there’s a problem. A pretty obvious problem. Buff necro in other ways such as sustain/survivability (whatever necro really needs) and nerf epidemic. That’s what you call balance. Huh.

Epidemic isn’t the reason condi necro is relevant, it’s their access to boon corruption. When people are so reliant of boons for a lot of sustain and mitigation, having someone there that can be rid of those simply with auto attacks and a few low CD abilities is incredibly useful.

Epidemic is just the way condi necro can actually put in relevant AoE damage, otherwise you’d see them only for sniping commanders.

Ok, when we nerf epidemic, we have to talk about nerfing boons. Take boon availability and access away from all the classes.

You don’t like that solution? Neither do I, but I’m not the one who thinks Epidemic is the problem.
The problem is that there is no balancing in wvw and yes, gear (especially since the introduction of ascended) is a huge problem in wvw.
There was no dire or marauder gear available. You had to go power/toughness/vitality or berserker (or carrion) and you had to choose to do less damage for high sustain or high damage with low sustain.
Today you equip your full dire gear or marauder mixed with berserker and you get high damage and high sustain. In combination with boons all available (even for thieves or engis) and a lot of new passive skills you need a balancing factor.
So, we either get rid of stats in wvw and go the spvp way or we wait for Anet to balance wvw in a similar way they balance spvp.
We all know neither of this will happen, because Anet doesn’t care for wvw. They’d rather take out another class.

and btw this is pretty funny

You run 2 eles so they can heal the necros that are abusing epidemic.

Ok, let’s nerf ele healing then. The necro dies instantly without healing and epidemic is balanced in a second.
No?

If this skill gets any of the suggested nerfs here, I’ll be sure to go out of my way to rally complaints for other skills/traits to receive nerfs as well. And I have more than a few in mind.

Reducing the radius is the only acceptable nerf this skill could get. Anything else and it becomes more situational than it already is, which would put it in line with a plethora of other useless utilities that Necro has.

I feel like the multiple threads that have popped up about this are inadvertently trolling me because of how much it’s kittening me off. I love Necromancer to death (no pun intended), I’ve been playing it for 3 years with over 3.5k hours in it and I am so kitten tired of having every good toy we get taken away from us. Necro is the one class that can’t run, stealth, regenerate insane amounts of health or block/invuln spam and yet we always get the kittening short end of the stick.

/rant

I’m avoiding these threads from here on out. With some of the suggestions put forth I can already tell they won’t be worth reading and will only kitten me off more.

Not another “anything that killed me is OP” rant…

Can we just end this thread already? ANything on nerfings necros atm its stupid.

Mikhael.2391:

Can we just end this thread already? ANything on nerfings necros atm its stupid.

I agree necros can use some buffs but the epi meta is kitten, everyone and there mom has to bring lots of cleanse.

Maybe make it a badd kitten aoe boon rip like remove 6 boons around target

Eleazar.9478:

Mikhael.2391:

Can we just end this thread already? ANything on nerfings necros atm its stupid.

I agree necros can use some buffs but the epi meta is kitten, everyone and there mom has to bring lots of cleanse.

Maybe make it a badd kitten aoe boon rip like remove 6 boons around target

Ohhh I realllllly like that one. Or even a conversion to condis that only lasts for 4-5 seconds.

just remove the unblockable, players need to look target to see if they are fit to cast epi on.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Eleazar.9478:

Mikhael.2391:

Can we just end this thread already? ANything on nerfings necros atm its stupid.

I agree necros can use some buffs but the epi meta is kitten, everyone and there mom has to bring lots of cleanse.

Maybe make it a badd kitten aoe boon rip like remove 6 boons around target

Ohhh I realllllly like that one. Or even a conversion to condis that only lasts for 4-5 seconds.

I guess a boon conversion would be more thematic, I wouldn’t want it to be be blockable as with all the guards in wvw it would make it usless, however a cd increase would be fair.