Guild Wars 2

Hi,

Just and honest opinion about the new game. For those who had fully developed characters etc and were not buying new content, to have their world turned upside down with no options I believe will make many people leave the game.

I suggest having 2 separate games completely. The new one and the old one. If you want to see what happens just have 3 old style servers and allow free transfers. When those 3 fill up…open three more…when those fill up….etkittenil you find that few actually like the new content.

It might be different for non-wvw content, but all I do is wvw and it is now ruined.

Thanks

Not sure why a kitten got inserted as there was no swear words etc….

HoT and previous updates took much of the fun out of WvW for me as well. I’d actually be willing to pay to play the old game (old maps, no stab nerf, no auto upgrade). But that option will never be. I played GW2 (WvW only) exclusively for years but I’ll be looking for other games to play now.

BlackSpathi.1062:

old maps, no stab nerf, no auto upgrade

Sign me up for that as well

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

I’m pretty sure they weren’t asked their opinion, nor invited to the mainly streamer only wvw BL testing session, so yes, this new map is pretty much out of the blue for the majority of players and almost no one was able to give feedback on the proposed design except for the few invited to the beta wvw tests- so where you get ‘overwhelmingly demanded via player feedback’ is anyone’s guess.

We asked for new maps, seeing as the old ones were over 3 years old. We didn’t ask for large expanses of mainly pve mobs, reduced rewards, chances of finding fights practically NIL and a cheese pve event in the middle of the map. Maybe you and the other testers should have asked the rest of us…

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

I’ve been here giving feedback, it was just on my other account which has been suspended since my feedback wasn’t praising these stupid changes.

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

many people gave feedback on thsoe and were ignored.

Gaab.4257:

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

many people gave feedback on thsoe and were ignored.

Most feedback in this section of the forums is never good feedback including my own feedback

Good feedback shouldn’t include the word kitten.

Stop blobbing. I haven’t even notice any difference in stability and old borderlands were worst PvP map ever and EotM is best.

Junkpile.7439:

Stop blobbing. I haven’t even notice any difference in stability and old borderlands were worst PvP map ever and EotM is best.

gr8 b8 m8

Give it time, it’s been one day and you’re comparing 3 years of the old maps to 1 day of the new one. EVERYBODY has to learn the terrain, everybody is out of their comfort zone of knowing where to go and how to get there. To claim you’re done in day one of new stuff is just silly. It’s like playing a mario game and and falling into kitten in world 1-1 and quitting.

We giving our 3 yrs of experience with feedback to Anet and they didn’t listen. I’m a chef for 10yrs, my guests who gives me their feedback I learn from it. I try to cook to the taste what my guests like to have for diner. Anet is a bigger company and ofcourse making money is their main point, but they need to listen to what the wvw community really wants and try to work out what we need and try to work on that.
Like that reset time change, did we ask for it ? no, and then giving us stupid reasons.
Playing ur new specialization u need to grind and farm for it.
Only positive and nice to see is the to use a glide to fly around in ur guild hall, and the new maps in HoT. New guild chat system is average. New guild tab layout is chaotic.
New commander/squad tab/features are nice.
So for me it’s just a waste of my money. I will keep playing because I like to play wvw and kill stuff, and have many friends in guild. That’s the only reason I can think off to keep playing it. Otherwise I would have never bought the expansion.

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

Yes, we have asked for and talked about changes since Beta.

The changes that we get, and the changes that are complained about the most, are generally changes that weren’t asked for, or are changes that have been accomplished in ways that either do not solve our concerns or even exacerbate our disagreement.

Where were we? Here. In the game. In the streams. In the forums and subreddits and CDI. ANet can’t follow the conversation, and can’t reply with proper results. This isn’t the RvR game that people were excited about in 2012. It’s a cop out.

I personally like the new stuff. If the trash server system were replaced with something halfway decent I could actually play too.. that would be cool.

Seeing other servers running zergs even now, sigh. Guess I could transfer and maybe get a few hours of play before they also implode.

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

People didn’t have access to the beta. Plus, judging it via second hand experience isn’t very objective, and I am sure you would have pointed that out as well on it.

And as I’ve repeated elsewhere on the forums, please don’t take your argument to the posters and focus on their points. Their previous stances, or consistency on it is irrelevant to the current discussion. Plus I’m pretty sure I’ve seen OP complaining in many locations before. =p

Also “overwhelmingly demanded by player feedback”. Where are you getting this from anyways? If it’s the forum, I do believe you would agree with me that it doesn’t represent the player base entirely.

Good points, Archon.

I would add that white knighting ANet in player feedback/complaint threads is not constructive in the form that coglin showed, which I’ve seen repeated ad nauseam these past three years.

ANet deserves to be vouched for, and sometimes they take it upon themselves. What we don’t need is players attacking each other on behalf of ANet for some emotive sense of obligation to a krewe they adore.

ArchonWing.9480:

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

People didn’t have access to the beta. Plus, judging it via second hand experience isn’t very objective, and I am sure you would have pointed that out as well on it.

And as I’ve repeated elsewhere on the forums, please don’t take your argument to the posters and focus on their points. Their previous stances, or consistency on it is irrelevant to the current discussion. Plus I’m pretty sure I’ve seen OP complaining in many locations before. =p

Also “overwhelmingly demanded by player feedback”. Where are you getting this from anyways? If it’s the forum, I do believe you would agree with me that it doesn’t represent the player base entirely.

There are some dishonest statements here. I and my wife were in a WvW beta, as we’re some of my kids, guildies, and some friends. We have never streamed or had any affiliation with gaming new. They had a beta large enough to queue 3 maps, at least on the beta server I was on.

I agree the forums is a very small aspect of the player base, but it appeared to me thay most of what we recieved, fit the demands on the forums. I did not agree with most of those demands. I simply noticed several complainers post history show they did not participate in the discussion.

And you are wrong about previous stances and statements of posters. When some posters demanded something, then complain when they get it, a discussion on that is very reasonable. If you dislike my post, report it. Pressuring to tell me what I can or cannot discuss, doesn’t assist is in any perspective you desire to share.

Personal I feel some of the issues being complied about, are premature, and need to be experienced more then a day or two before making such declarative statements of provlems thay may be only based on limited perception.

coglin.1867:

There are some dishonest statements here. I and my wife were in a WvW beta, as we’re some of my kids, guildies, and some friends. We have never streamed or had any affiliation with gaming new. They had a beta large enough to queue 3 maps, at least on the beta server I was on.

I agree the forums is a very small aspect of the player base, but it appeared to me thay most of what we recieved, fit the demands on the forums. I did not agree with most of those demands. I simply noticed several complainers post history show they did not participate in the discussion.

What are the dishonest statements? Your family and friend involvement in Beta says nothing toward that claim.

What appeared to you for demands is demonstrably wrong, and the demonstration is in the archived CDI threads and the entirety of gw2wvw.net

coglin.1867:

ArchonWing.9480:

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

People didn’t have access to the beta. Plus, judging it via second hand experience isn’t very objective, and I am sure you would have pointed that out as well on it.

And as I’ve repeated elsewhere on the forums, please don’t take your argument to the posters and focus on their points. Their previous stances, or consistency on it is irrelevant to the current discussion. Plus I’m pretty sure I’ve seen OP complaining in many locations before. =p

Also “overwhelmingly demanded by player feedback”. Where are you getting this from anyways? If it’s the forum, I do believe you would agree with me that it doesn’t represent the player base entirely.

There are some dishonest statements here. I and my wife were in a WvW beta, as we’re some of my kids, guildies, and some friends. We have never streamed or had any affiliation with gaming new. They had a beta large enough to queue 3 maps, at least on the beta server I was on.

I am not sure how are you saying I am being dishonest. As long as somehow the people in this thread or some group of individual did not have access or in any case wasn’t able to, my statement would be accurate. People doesn’t translate to everybody. But certainly I am glad you were able to send feedback, if you were able to. Your own experiences are not mutually exclusive with any of this— things can be simultaneously true.

I agree the forums is a very small aspect of the player base, but it appeared to me thay most of what we recieved, fit the demands on the forums. I did not agree with most of those demands. I simply noticed several complainers post history show they did not participate in the discussion.

Even in this forum itself, I cannot consider a single voice. But have you considered they could have been neutral at that time?

And you are wrong about precious stances and statements of posters. When some posters demanded something, then complain when they get it, a discussion on that is very reasonable. If you dislike my post, report it. Pressuring to tell me what I can or cannot discuss, doesn’t assist is in any perspective you desire to share.

I most certainly am not wrong, because I do believe such an approach is logically fallacious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

And I have no intention of reporting you just because I disagree with you lol. Please don’t try to go that way as the report button is not for posts you dislike. I can’t control what you say and I have no intention to do so, nor would I resort to such underhanded tactics. Certainly, if you make a post in public, it may be possible that there could be a response and my perspective is that I will point out what I consider to be fallacious, and no pointing out a fallacy isn’t some kind of magical bullet that takes out people’s arguments. Since my reply is also public, it’s also inherent in a reply to your post is not just for you, but also for everyone reading it so they may make up their own minds about what is going on.

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Noblehawk.8036:

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Unless X guild makes the A castle as if it was their own stuff, claim it and defend it, comunities need to be more organized, instead of having guilds that call them superior becouse they can karma train an entire BL’s in a few minutes while that bl is empty.

I think is a matter of organization, and less karmatrain, the only thing i hate is the big gun event at center ~10 or less players we did it in just few minutes large group will complete it very very fast.

One thing for sure i dont have pitty for QQ guilds that only play if they can karma train empty bl’s, those groups should never existed.

Aeolus.3615:

Noblehawk.8036:

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Unless X guild makes the A castle as if it was their own stuff, claim it and defend it, comunities need to be more organized, instead of having guilds that call them superior becouse they can karma train an entire BL’s in a few minutes while that bl is empty.

I think is a matter of organization, and less karmatrain, the only thing i hate is the big gun event at center ~10 or less players we did it in just few minutes large group will complete it very very fast.

One thing for sure i dont have pitty for QQ guilds that only play if they can karma train empty bl’s, those groups should never existed.

some of the places are so stupidly defensible that if a guild really wants to siege them up, use the gimmick improvements, and actively defend it, nobody is going to bother even trying to take it. people wanted more even fights, not dumb chokepoints, ledges, and sieges

Blix.8021:

Aeolus.3615:

Noblehawk.8036:

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Unless X guild makes the A castle as if it was their own stuff, claim it and defend it, comunities need to be more organized, instead of having guilds that call them superior becouse they can karma train an entire BL’s in a few minutes while that bl is empty.

I think is a matter of organization, and less karmatrain, the only thing i hate is the big gun event at center ~10 or less players we did it in just few minutes large group will complete it very very fast.

One thing for sure i dont have pitty for QQ guilds that only play if they can karma train empty bl’s, those groups should never existed.

some of the places are so stupidly defensible that if a guild really wants to siege them up, use the gimmick improvements, and actively defend it, nobody is going to bother even trying to take it. people wanted more even fights, not dumb chokepoints, ledges, and sieges

That means siege needs to be worked out, like trebs increase range(if stuff is that hard to take at close siege trebs need slightly range for better tactics and groups defending them at plains), or add more siege tools for groups build an attacking camp were they will build trebs there with a small defensive wall,

I dont know but this WvW new map gives plenty of brainstorming ideads for a siege warfere game, and alot of places where gank groups can cough players before reaching towers do defend, we also need to see the charr panzer in action, dont foget that players were used to get everything w/o a fight or fighting the useless defenses that the old map had, game was way to easy in that aspect now improved alot in terms of WvW defense and atack still with a huge huge room for later add ons.

wvw has been getting worse almost every update, its quite an accomplishment. Battlegrounds layouts need to be simple and instead they do the opposite and give complexity.

Take football as an example you dont need to have complexitys to have good games, if you start throwing in obstacles and 101 objectives you will ruin the game.

What developers dont get about pvp is that they dont need to create the content the players do that, it is NOT pve.

Skeletor.9360:

Hi,

Just and honest opinion about the new game. For those who had fully developed characters etc and were not buying new content, to have their world turned upside down with no options I believe will make many people leave the game.

I suggest having 2 separate games completely. The new one and the old one. If you want to see what happens just have 3 old style servers and allow free transfers. When those 3 fill up…open three more…when those fill up….etkittenil you find that few actually like the new content.

It might be different for non-wvw content, but all I do is wvw and it is now ruined.

Thanks

this is most vague complaint. i mean, what are you even going on about?

the fact that you cant just facetank CC with stability anymore? the redundant and tedious guard stacks being removed? the impossible to get WvW titles being made realistically achievable? the new borderland map that drastically improves upon the last both aesthetically and gameplay wise?

the wvw community truly is the worst.

Aeolus.3615:

Blix.8021:

Aeolus.3615:

Noblehawk.8036:

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Unless X guild makes the A castle as if it was their own stuff, claim it and defend it, comunities need to be more organized, instead of having guilds that call them superior becouse they can karma train an entire BL’s in a few minutes while that bl is empty.

I think is a matter of organization, and less karmatrain, the only thing i hate is the big gun event at center ~10 or less players we did it in just few minutes large group will complete it very very fast.

One thing for sure i dont have pitty for QQ guilds that only play if they can karma train empty bl’s, those groups should never existed.

some of the places are so stupidly defensible that if a guild really wants to siege them up, use the gimmick improvements, and actively defend it, nobody is going to bother even trying to take it. people wanted more even fights, not dumb chokepoints, ledges, and sieges

That means siege needs to be worked out, like trebs increase range(if stuff is that hard to take at close siege trebs need slightly range for better tactics and groups defending them at plains), or add more siege tools for groups build an attacking camp were they will build trebs there with a small defensive wall,

I dont know but this WvW new map gives plenty of brainstorming ideads for a siege warfere game, and alot of places where gank groups can cough players before reaching towers do defend, we also need to see the charr panzer in action, dont foget that players were used to get everything w/o a fight or fighting the useless defenses that the old map had, game was way to easy in that aspect now improved alot in terms of WvW defense and atack still with a huge huge room for later add ons.

um, a lot of people don’t want a siege warfare game. we want to use our characters to fight other people’s characters in large scale combat. siege should damage structures and other siege, not be so strong that it discourages people from fighting each other.

too much ktrain or too much siege humping makes for a boring game. unfortunately the new map seems ideal for either of those situations to happen

sinject.4607:

the new borderland map that drastically improves upon the last both aesthetically and gameplay wise?

the wvw community truly is the worst.

Not true. That is perspective dependent. An RvR player (a form of PvP player) tends to very much dislike the change as done. The PvE player, who would like to go into WvW sometimes so long as it is not too heavily focused on PvP combat; they tend toward enjoying the change, because the new map feels more like any other given map in Tyria.

So, you may be the map’s target audience. Do not insult the rest of us by presuming that your outcome is indicative of some failure or deficiency in us, by saying things like we are “the worst.” This is again the white knighting of ANet that is not constructive; in different clothing.

Remember Alterac Valley in Vanilla wow? http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/World-Of-Warcraft-Alterac-Valley-03.jpg somthing similar to that map size and layout with a definite finish objective for each world server each round would have been fun.

At least somthing totaly diffrent for such as expensive expansion.

Blix.8021:

Aeolus.3615:

Blix.8021:

Aeolus.3615:

Noblehawk.8036:

Those who loved killtrains/karmatrains will love the new map… it belongs to eotm.

nuff said.

Unless X guild makes the A castle as if it was their own stuff, claim it and defend it, comunities need to be more organized, instead of having guilds that call them superior becouse they can karma train an entire BL’s in a few minutes while that bl is empty.

I think is a matter of organization, and less karmatrain, the only thing i hate is the big gun event at center ~10 or less players we did it in just few minutes large group will complete it very very fast.

One thing for sure i dont have pitty for QQ guilds that only play if they can karma train empty bl’s, those groups should never existed.

some of the places are so stupidly defensible that if a guild really wants to siege them up, use the gimmick improvements, and actively defend it, nobody is going to bother even trying to take it. people wanted more even fights, not dumb chokepoints, ledges, and sieges

That means siege needs to be worked out, like trebs increase range(if stuff is that hard to take at close siege trebs need slightly range for better tactics and groups defending them at plains), or add more siege tools for groups build an attacking camp were they will build trebs there with a small defensive wall,

I dont know but this WvW new map gives plenty of brainstorming ideads for a siege warfere game, and alot of places where gank groups can cough players before reaching towers do defend, we also need to see the charr panzer in action, dont foget that players were used to get everything w/o a fight or fighting the useless defenses that the old map had, game was way to easy in that aspect now improved alot in terms of WvW defense and atack still with a huge huge room for later add ons.

um, a lot of people don’t want a siege warfare game. we want to use our characters to fight other people’s characters in large scale combat. siege should damage structures and other siege, not be so strong that it discourages people from fighting each other.

too much ktrain or too much siege humping makes for a boring game. unfortunately the new map seems ideal for either of those situations to happen

IC your point it actually makes sense in that case, but to solve that Anet would just made a green plain square were blob stack might and splash water fields, a game were only happens blob colliding, isnt anything special either.

It needs content.

But that also might tells where WvW design and function is at fault, including ppt system point etc, it needs a change to provide the happening of those fights.

Instead of only need to take care of towers, they could make terrain control were that would impact the game supply and proximity and new way-point for the guild that took hover that area, it feels map is large enough for that.
Guild Battle camps would need to be destroyed on open field fights if server wished to took that piece of the map again(a army flag and red circle would pop up when scouted by any player), with this guilds that wanted to fight other guilds could go to their BL’s and raise a guild camp challenging the existent guilds or pugs of that server.
But for sure with the actual balance it would end on aoe cheapness, would only matter the numbers of it, that is what blobs are resumed to, but balance is a sad story for gw2, anyway belongs to another topic.

I believe that this is ANet’s honest answer to how WvW is its own form of RvR, because there are multiple other studios building their competitor products, which themselves lean more toward the traditional RvR, or toward an RTS hybrid of it, than does WvW.

Therefore, I think that ANet is intentional in making Desert BL more close match any other map from Tyria, rather than competing on the same features and styles that will have other branding in the market next year.

Do I like to play chess on a 3D-board with 1000 × 1000 × 10 squares? I don’t think so. These maps are optical beautiful designed. But the changes on the wvw-maps got far from what I prefer as a strategical gameplay. Bigger not equals better and there is a speech “small is beautiful”. I remember the small areas of Heroes Ascent or GvG from Guild Wars I to enable nice pvp fights. Area and amount of players in a certain balance. So there will be limit of mapsize that is better not to be passed and I dont like to play hide and seek most of the time.

dan.3618:

Remember Alterac Valley in Vanilla wow? http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/World-Of-Warcraft-Alterac-Valley-03.jpg somthing similar to that map size and layout with a definite finish objective for each world server each round would have been fun.

At least somthing totaly diffrent for such as expensive expansion.

AV was all I really liked in WoW, the Vanilla version. We had some go 5+ hours.

As a Camp sniper/roamer I took one look at this new map and logged out. As messed up as it could be, WvW was the only activity in this game I could enjoy. I’ll wait to see the “improved” alpine map, but honestly expecting it will be a gimmicky, vertical choke point train wreck as well.

Boa Cinderella.1298:

Do I like to play chess on a 3D-board with 1000 × 1000 × 10 squares? I don’t think so. These maps are optical beautiful designed. But the changes on the wvw-maps got far from what I prefer as a strategical gameplay. Bigger not equals better and there is a speech “small is beautiful”.

Exactly, Boa!

Me and many other players were complaining about Edge of the Mists (EotM) being:
- too large, too long distances to travel
- too many places where to fall down
- too many narrow bridges
- too many gimmick map designs
- too much pve

Arenanet chose to ignore all those valid arguments and created new desert borderlands, which is basically EotM 2.0. And EotM was never real WvWvW, just a karma train pve map to level up your characters and earn loot faster than WvWvW.

Now bring back the old Alpine Map soon or frustrate and lose major part of the player base.

PS. You can check my post history. I was never asking for a new borderland map. In fact I wanted the original map back with the lake as that original map had the simplest, most elegant design. Look at games which have been successful for a long time like Counterstrike. People still play the same maps (with minor changes) which were published 10-17 years ago. New maps don’t make the game necessarily better. People love to play the same CS maps over and over again as long as the game play is good and opponents are challenging and balance is there. Same would be true for GW2 WvWvW and spvp.

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

I think I’ve disliked or disagreed with every single post of Coglin’s I’ve came across (just never bothered to say so till now). Anyways enjoy your new wvw and the direction people like you have pushed it

This map is awesome.

To those that hate the change and complain, how about you give it a month before screaming that the sky is falling.

Personally I mostly like the new maps.

-They’re pretty
- You need more situational awareness (narrow ledges, gusts of winds, portals for enemies)
- Keeps are better defended
- Harvesting nodes!
- Breakbar on lords

Things that will become better:
- My ability to navigate the maps (at the moment I’m lost most of the time. But it’ll chance as I learn the new map. This is not a fallacy of Anet or the new map in any way)
- My and my team’s ability to use the new mechanics, and utilize them fully.
- The new claiming system. (because we need to figure out how it works, and build up upgrades for our guild).
-New specializations. (Hey that thief is hacking! He’s got so many dodge…uh… yeah. new spec. Again, will get better when we learn how to play effectively again)
- Bugs. Bugs are everywhere, in all games. They will get fixed, hopefully soon.

Things that worry me:
- The size of the maps. As our server isn’t top gold, and neither are the servers we’re fighting, it’s difficult to find enemies.(this might change a bit when people return from pve maps. Also, please note, I don’t mind the running distances, it’s the finding other people I’m worried about.)

Nope Aner already lost me even though the bls were free they are terrible. Running around 1h 2 fights → bored quit gw2 → uninstalled →sad face

I was actually hesitant to post to this, in fact I have never posted here before.

I sadly feel that HoT will do to GW2 what Trials of Atlantis did for Dark Age of Camelot. It sank it. (pardon the pun)

It is obvious that GW2 was trying to coax PvE’ers into WvW by adding the new bl’s. Also by making PvE more required for WvW by the new elite specializations, they are forcing those that RvR into PvEing because achieving the required Hero Points is too slow in WvW.

The poster that stated he liked playing chess, but not on a 3D board analogy is probably the best I have heard. You fall off a cliff and frankly you are out of the game because it is too far to travel back to get back into the mix.

In fact some areas are so high that when you do get to the top, all you have done is get to the top. What was the point of the effort? As far as strategy goes, yes it does make you rethink how to approach WvW. Sadly though it is too gimmicky.

Also I feel some of the design work is downright awesome, while others I really think were rather…well not thought out. The new BL’s have some needed changes but not some changes that really simply break the game. When I heard about the auto upgrade system it made me wonder what some of us were going to do in game because we actually had a maintenance crew running about doing upgrades and keeping camps flowing. Now we have windstorms, jumping puzzles and dinosaurs.

Look if I wanted jumping puzzles I would have purchased Tomb Raider.

I will say this though, some of the design and graphic work is stellar. But frankly now WvW is simply a pain. It is not fun. You have to figure out how to get about without falling or getting eaten or the quickest route to get to the heart of battle. Sure as time goes on and you learn the map that will change. But with the enormous amount of changes the community should have been let in more on what to expect, I have a feeling the reason behind this is that ANET knew that there was going to be push back.

They are going to force those who love WvW to either leave or settle for PvP in an attempt to make WvW appeal more to PvE’ers. Also WvW’ers are now going to PvE for the elite skills so they won’t get owned in WvW.

I like the elite skills, but they should be easier to obtain in WvW. If they would have simply changed the reward system in WvW it would have worked. More reward for defending, more reward for building siege and repairing, that would have worked for some of us. Their approach I feel was like going to PvE’ers and asking, "What can we do to get you more involved in WvW than approaching WvW’ers and asking, “What can we do to enhance the system?”

The new BL’s are pretty glossy…except I wonder why they would even name a tower the Necropolis and not even make it look like a building that housed crypts, not even graphically appealing but bland while Hughes’s Hideaway and the Academy they really went to town on.

The BL’s are simply too large…have paths that frankly lead nowhere to nothing such as climbing a ton of stairs just to get to the top?

It is just way too convoluted. They took the rule about keeping it simple and broke it.

This is just my opinion, but also mirrored by many of the current WvW community. I am seriously thinking of just doing PvP…which is sad…but the changes were just too much and too drastic.

Trajan.4953:

This map is awesome.

To those that hate the change and complain, how about you give it a month before screaming that the sky is falling.

People keep saying “give it time” but unless this is an April fools joke and Anet is going to release the “real” map within the next month there’s nothing they can do to fix all the problems they’ve introduced with it.

Skeletor.9360:

Hi,

Just and honest opinion about the new game. For those who had fully developed characters etc and were not buying new content, to have their world turned upside down with no options I believe will make many people leave the game.

I suggest having 2 separate games completely. The new one and the old one. If you want to see what happens just have 3 old style servers and allow free transfers. When those 3 fill up…open three more…when those fill up….etkittenil you find that few actually like the new content.

It might be different for non-wvw content, but all I do is wvw and it is now ruined.

Thanks

I would suggest that you moved to a top tier server and take more time to learn the map. It is a little design masterpiece. The complexity just make it rewarding in the long term.

As for players leaving, well they already left last year, they probably aren’t coming back, but the maps got bigger so they feel more empty. Having just 1 copy of it would be plenty.

new map is a fail

Xillllix.3485:

Skeletor.9360:

Hi,

Just and honest opinion about the new game. For those who had fully developed characters etc and were not buying new content, to have their world turned upside down with no options I believe will make many people leave the game.

I suggest having 2 separate games completely. The new one and the old one. If you want to see what happens just have 3 old style servers and allow free transfers. When those 3 fill up…open three more…when those fill up….etkittenil you find that few actually like the new content.

It might be different for non-wvw content, but all I do is wvw and it is now ruined.

Thanks

I would suggest that you moved to a top tier server and take more time to learn the map. It is a little design masterpiece. The complexity just make it rewarding in the long term.

As for players leaving, well they already left last year, they probably aren’t coming back, but the maps got bigger so they feel more empty. Having just 1 copy of it would be plenty.

I am in both top tier NA servers, participated in Desert BL Beta, and disagree with your assumptions that top tier is any better in these regards, and that time will improve it or make it more rewarding. Those things aren’t true for the people that enjoyed WvW the longest, with the most time put into it. Those things are true for the people that did not play WvW exclusively.

“As for players leaving, well they already left last year, they probably aren’t coming back, but the maps got bigger so they feel more empty. Having just 1 copy of it would be plenty.”

That should be the biggest clue right there.

I will give it time, but frankly ANET is in the business of making money. If there is no one to support their creative efforts by spending cash in the game and the servers become ghost towns then they will have to pay attention.

Personally I would love to see them succeed, but they really didn’t work with the WvW community on much of this. Nor did they solve one of WvW’s biggest issues, defense of the BL.

EB was the biggest draw in WvW leaving home BL’s left to a handful to defend and upgrade. Mainly because the reward system favored offense over defense. The rewards for upgrading, repairing and siege building in no way compared with the offense rewards in keep taking, etc. Hence the K Train.

Now with the implementation of the new BL’s they have created an even bigger problem, the ones that used to defend now are flocking with the rest to EB because they are used to it. The new BL’s take too much time to learn, there is little tutorials or instructions, tips etc. People get bored…got to EB to something they know and are used to.

ANET issue has always favored the offensive, though it seems they wanted to cater to the defense crowd in the new BL…well, all they really have to do was overhaul the reward systems, add new content but they simply like a previous posted said created EoTM 2.0.

I will give it time to see how ANET deals with the issue. I miss Hills, Bay etc. It would have been nice to see them keep the old layout, rework the graphics and design of the keeps, rework the reward system to make defense more appealing etc. As for people leaving, people left prior to the release of HoT as if they had inside info.

Now I understand the reasons why they did.

I think the new maps have a lot to offer the EoTM crowd. I think they should keep the new map…but bring back the old BL’s as well. I think that maybe why they left EB alone except for the upgrade system and the new siege. They knew that is where most of the WvW goes on. Defense on the other hand had to take another hit.

But I am just one player out of many, so my opinion doesn’t count much.

I just hope we don’t continue to grow ghost servers. =(

Xpac drops.. WvW seems empty.. Guess everyone does actually play other game modes and “nobody” just plays WvW.

:P

“Xpac drops.. WvW seems empty.. Guess everyone does actually play other game modes and “nobody” just plays WvW.
:P”

Exactly…so why even offer it? If the WvW has become the minority then we have our new Everquest.

I thought GW2 had become what Dark Age of Camelot aspired to be until the release of Trials of Atlantis.

Which killed the game.

Most WvW’ers will migrate to a game that favors them. Then GW2 will then condense their servers and become another MMoRG among many.

BlackSpathi.1062:

HoT and previous updates took much of the fun out of WvW for me as well. I’d actually be willing to pay to play the old game (old maps, no stab nerf, no auto upgrade). But that option will never be. I played GW2 (WvW only) exclusively for years but I’ll be looking for other games to play now.

Sad but true only reason i still play is 5% hope it will be better (like late 2013 meta) some day again and 95% the missing alternative for a rvr game with a good combat system like gw2.

I dislike every change to wvw since stab change but the new map is killing the rest of my hope anet give akitten. about the core wvw/rvr/fight community. Most wvw only players i talk with(jeah anet we all play some kind of pve but just because we forced to get some proper gear) quit the game already or are very close to leave.

just my 2 very disappointing cents :-(

WvW was lackluster and broken in a lot of ways. I’ve been waiting for them to fix it for 3 years. Now they’ve finally fixed it and the people who got used to the old way are upset that they are no longer super knowledgeable about it. It happens in every major change to every game.

I couldn’t be happier with the changes so far. They are what convinced me to buy the expansion in the first place.

Bridger.9245:

WvW was lackluster and broken in a lot of ways. I’ve been waiting for them to fix it for 3 years. Now they’ve finally fixed it and the people who got used to the old way are upset that they are no longer super knowledgeable about it. It happens in every major change to every game.

I couldn’t be happier with the changes so far. They are what convinced me to buy the expansion in the first place.

You consider more pve content a fix? You consider a map too large to support the wvw population of almost all servers a fix? You consider forcing people to zerg/blob even more a fix?

When people come into these threads and talk about “they gave us exactly what we were asking for” I guess it is you they are referring to.

Bridger.9245:

WvW was lackluster and broken in a lot of ways. I’ve been waiting for them to fix it for 3 years. Now they’ve finally fixed it and the people who got used to the old way are upset that they are no longer super knowledgeable about it. It happens in every major change to every game.

I couldn’t be happier with the changes so far. They are what convinced me to buy the expansion in the first place.

Gr8 b8 m8