Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Phantom.8130:

Deihnyx.6318:

Long term goals are great!
However they have to remain achievable.

Just….. gonna put this out here. Originally, for the titles, someone would have to play 24/7 for around 8 years straight to get the yak slapper title. 56 years to get the title for attacking SM. Someone broke down the math a couple years back, which was pretty eye opening. They eventually changed the requirements. But… yeah. That’s… how long term WvW rewards roll.

By comparison, 14 weeks doesn’t seem too bad now, huh?

Rewards are very much achievable. You just can’t have every reward within a short amount of time.

I feel like no matter how many times numbers are repeated there’s always going to be someone saying it’s too short.
2 years if you’re doing every chest every week. Double, Triple that if you can’t get them all every week.
If you think that’s too short, I give up. But really in this case, don’t blame people for afk/flipping camps outside of primetime because this is pure, brainless grinding to ask for that many hours a week.

Deihnyx.6318:

Ayrilana.1396:

Phantom.8130:

Deihnyx.6318:

Long term goals are great!
However they have to remain achievable.

Just….. gonna put this out here. Originally, for the titles, someone would have to play 24/7 for around 8 years straight to get the yak slapper title. 56 years to get the title for attacking SM. Someone broke down the math a couple years back, which was pretty eye opening. They eventually changed the requirements. But… yeah. That’s… how long term WvW rewards roll.

By comparison, 14 weeks doesn’t seem too bad now, huh?

Rewards are very much achievable. You just can’t have every reward within a short amount of time.

I feel like no matter how many times numbers are repeated there’s always going to be someone saying it’s too short.
2 years if you’re doing every chest every week. Double, Triple that if you can’t get them all every week.
If you think that’s too short, I give up. But really in this case, don’t blame people for afk/flipping camps outside of primetime because this is pure, brainless grinding to ask for that many hours a week.

How many hours of pure, brainless grinding in PvE have I had to do every time I need to re-equip (especially the stupid HoT stuff that you can’t just buy off the TP)? How about how much I had to do to get WvW upgrades THAT I HAD ALREADY EARNED back for my small guild. I certainly didn’t build 3 sets of ascended armor and about a dozen weapons with WvW loot pre reward track. I will never own a legendary weapon because map completion is a boring grind.

If you look at the time line of GW2 WvW you would see that the veterans earned what they have. The pre HoT overhaul. The fall/winter after that where we had too many servers in one tier so the guys below suffered. Pirate ship. Then the debacle that was HoT. Sprinkle on some mobile cannons, golems, broken balance and broken promises and I’m surprised that so many vets are left.

Are you supposed to, as a bronze-silver player, open the Diamond box every week?

It seems like what the game expects you to do and what players expect to do are out of order.

Sarika.3756:

How is getting a reward while playing a game mode you love grindy?

You don’t have to farm the same content over and over, waiting for RNG to bless you. You just… Play.

It depends how long it is between chests tbh. If I’ve managed to find 6 hours in total during the week to put into wvw, but it’s already Wed, I can definitely see it feeling grindy if you felt like you needed to put another x hours into it before Fri or else the first 6 hours will count for nought.
*edit, I haven’t managed to find any hours to put in it since it started yet so numbers are theoretical

People still do not seem to understand that maxing out your tickets for the week is not supposed to be something done in a reasonable amount of time for everyone. Diamond chest is not designed to be easy to obtain and reliably complete every week, so stop basing all your arguments on diamond chest/maxing tickets. If you are one of the people complaining about it being a “second job” to finish diamond chest, then finishing diamond chest is not meant for you.

Nobody is forcing anyone to play this mode over any other mode.

Finishing Diamond chest wouldn’t be an issue, if it weren’t for the fact that not doing so means you are severely handicapping your pace of progression towards your own rewards because the bulk of the rewards are all concentrated towards the end of the track. Currently, if you were earning about 5 or 6 pips per tick, it would take you 21 – 24 hours in WvW every week to earn 175 tickets. Repeat that for TWO weeks so you can buy ONE piece of Exotic equipment. That’s a flat-out insane time-investment, considering that you can more easily acquire that same (or even better, considering you could farm Ascended trinkets and/or backpacks from the LS3 maps in far shorter amounts of time) equipment from other game modes. What is that telling players who only play WvW? That you have to spend close to 5 or even 10 times the amount of time other players do to get your own Exotic/Ascended gear? That isn’t the sort of approach to make WvW feel as rewarding as PvE or even PvP.

Anyway, apparently ANet is doing some tweaks to the Loyalty reward (now called Commitment) with tomorrow’s patch. Let’s see if they make any other changes to it while they’re at it.

You’re only handicapping yourself if you think that it is a necessity to finish it. The completionists will max tickets every week, regardless. And due to their dedicated time spent doing so, they will obtain their rewards faster. The casual players will finish chests casually, and casually obtain their rewards at a casual pace, since they are the ones choosing to only play a few hours here and there. This is all incredibly fair.

Social life/Long job hours/outside recreation, etc? – This is the weakest argument out here, and I’d rather not see it again in threads like this. No one is forcing anyone to play this video game, and if you feel as though it is encroaching on another aspect of your life that you love, then STOP PLAYING.

This isn’t about obtaining armor for the sake of it being armor. Its about obtaining shiny new skins. If a WvW player just wanted exotic armor, its incredibly cheap to buy them with badges of honor.

Maybe rank should determine the amount of days per week a player can build up tickets or w/e. If you need that carrot on a stick to play WvW, then the more you play, the quicker you can earn it. Might cut back on abuse of mechanics. It should be way more beneficial to cobble together a small group and go do something than to try to exploit outmanned buff or idle out and cause queues.

What is that telling players who only play WvW? That you have to spend close to 5 or even 10 times the amount of time other players do to get your own Exotic/Ascended gear? That isn’t the sort of approach to make WvW feel as rewarding as PvE or even PvP.

I think plenty of WvW players would be fine with that, as they don’t have the same motivations as other modes.

neonreaper.4805:

Maybe rank should determine the amount of days per week a player can build up tickets or w/e. If you need that carrot on a stick to play WvW, then the more you play, the quicker you can earn it. Might cut back on abuse of mechanics. It should be way more beneficial to cobble together a small group and go do something than to try to exploit outmanned buff or idle out and cause queues.

What is that telling players who only play WvW? That you have to spend close to 5 or even 10 times the amount of time other players do to get your own Exotic/Ascended gear? That isn’t the sort of approach to make WvW feel as rewarding as PvE or even PvP.

I think plenty of WvW players would be fine with that, as they don’t have the same motivations as other modes.

Isn’t rank already doing this?

“Can We Be Done With Pip Talk?”

No. Does that answer your question?

ANet’s answer to WvW woes was to dump pips and fools on it. Thank your nearest dev today!!!

Turk.5460:

You’re only handicapping yourself if you think that it is a necessity to finish it. The completionists will max tickets every week, regardless. And due to their dedicated time spent doing so, they will obtain their rewards faster. The casual players will finish chests casually, and casually obtain their rewards at a casual pace, since they are the ones choosing to only play a few hours here and there. This is all incredibly fair.

Social life/Long job hours/outside recreation, etc? – This is the weakest argument out here, and I’d rather not see it again in threads like this. No one is forcing anyone to play this video game, and if you feel as though it is encroaching on another aspect of your life that you love, then STOP PLAYING.

This isn’t about obtaining armor for the sake of it being armor. Its about obtaining shiny new skins. If a WvW player just wanted exotic armor, its incredibly cheap to buy them with badges of honor.

We got it, vets feels that they retroactively deserve the world, and some vets (not all, I know at least one here who is quite nice and understand the issue) are quite hostile towards new people wanting their piece of the cake.
Pretty much everyone here agrees that vets deserve to get their stuff faster. That is NOT the problem.

But incredibly fair? Enough with that.
I agree that complaining for 14-16 hours/week would be debatable, it’s about 2 hours a day, which is within the range of time you can expect people to have. And that is ALREADY a big commitment, on par with what you’d expect from Wings of Ascension/Ad Infinitum
But 6, 8 hours a day? No. Nowhere near fair, no matter how pretty you try to make it look like. You can play less of course, but less it takes significantly more time (we’re talking years) compared to the same tier of rewards from other modes (= 2/3 months).

If you think the reasoning is flawed and WvW should require more time, please actually explain why, don’t just say it has to because WvW necessarily requires more.
If you can start from the beginning and get Ad Infinitum in 3 months, Wings of Ascension in 2 months, hell a Legendary armor in 3 months if you’re good, there should be a decent way to get Warbringer by committing to WvW for about the same time commitment/week. There shouldn’t be a pre-existing contract that triples your time if you did not commit. It should be the OTHER way around (via discounts for high ranked).

Please again, explain how this reasoning is flawed.

Some additional maths, because maths are fun (not really)
A “casual” – as you name it – player starting WvW now and playing 10, 14 hours a week and getting 35 tickets will have to wait more than a YEAR AND A HALF. This is what you’re asking players from other modes who have a normal life.

So yes, you will keep getting that same “it’s taking a full time job” argument till Anet addresses it, or till WvW players are too tired of afkers farming the remaining 20 hours to make up for this dumb requirement.

this is a joke?

higher rank should absolutely reward more pips. im only gold myself so its not like im getting that much more than most.

it is only fair towards tho wvw’ers who played the mode for such a long time.

Deihnyx.6318:

Please again, explain how this reasoning is flawed.

It all depends on your personal view of time-commitment to reward ratio.

Why do you believe Warbringer should be obtained in a similar timeframe of the other legendary backpacks? I personally think that the time it would take to obtain the other legendary backpacks is irrelevant. The game modes are different for a reason, the rewards, and how you work towards the rewards are also going to be different. I enjoy the long-term goals, as do many other WvW mains.

Sure, taking 40 hours to reach the max may be excessive, but that is an issue with base pips, not the bonuses that others may get. I truly believe that to reach maximum rewards for the week, it should take the average or newer player about 20 hours. It’s a maximum, a reward for the commitment.

I hit the cap the very first week, because I was excited and set aside time to play. Silver ranked, so +2 pips per tick over a newbie. I barely passed silver chest last week playing about an hour a day average, and I probably won’t max out this week, either. And that is A-OK with me, because I know that the max reward is something to reach for, not something to be given freely. (Again, base pips reward is an issue, and I believe should be boosted so newer players can reach the max with 20 hours or so.)

I’d like to hear people explain why they think completing diamond chest should be easily obtainable in a casual timeframe.

So we basically agree that base pip needs to be boosted. I’d be fine with 20 hours, it’s significantly better than the current situation and still requires a big investment.

Everyone wins!

Wvwers seem very entitled all I keep reading is that they deserve this. Tell me then if we go into raids together to get legendary armor, do I get it 4xs faster then you? If not then why not? I have thousands of hours more in that game mode then you do.

I’m Bronze ranked. I played this game mode for 40 hours last week. I barely got to Mithril. I only got there because I got fed up with all this kitten and went to Overnumbered maps. It was a waste of time, because roaming for no reason other than keeping Participation up isn’t fun at all. Getting a negligible amount of pips while losing fights isn’t fun either.

Vets already get to diamond faster, which means they have to play less if the want to cap. Not only that, but they get to repeat diamond faster. Players on the bottom don’t get to diamond at all. They also have to play double or triple the amount of time a veteran has for lesser rewards. How is this fair? I don’t even care about the backpack, I just want to get Celestial gear on the godkitten vendor.

If I didn’t enjoy this game mode, I would’ve quit in the first week. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to those that actually decided to give WvW another shot, only to get +1 or no pips when losing.

Again, no one will explain Why maxing the tickets out each week should be easily obtainable?

And outnumbered is bad? It’s been great finding kindred spirits to keep the enemy’s BL from upgrading, starving supply, pulls their Zerg in, ninja’ing towers. And yes, when we have held a t-3 tower or keep, called out for help. THAT’s havoc and the buff rewards it. Sure, people abuse it, but I can name multiple mechanics in all games modes that people take advantage of. Worry less about them. Just play.

If you play the mode, you’ll get the skin. It just may take longer. Oh well.

Strider Pj.2193:

Again, no one will explain Why maxing the tickets out each week should be easily obtainable?

We do. By saying that 40 hours is not just uneasy, it’s ridiculous.
14 hours-ish (I’m fine with 20) is not “easily obtainable” either but is on par with the other modes.

Deihnyx.6318:

So we basically agree that base pip needs to be boosted. I’d be fine with 20 hours, it’s significantly better than the current situation and still requires a big investment.

Everyone wins!

Instead of increasing base pips I would like to see bonus pips for participation tier. A hardcore wvwer will be at tier six pretty consistently and so receive the same number of pips they do now. A more casual player who has fewer hours per week to play, but who really seeks to contribute when he does play, would see an increase in pip generation. This might also disincentivize afk pip farming, particularly if the outnumbered pip bonus were trimmed back some.

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Escort a dolyak? Get a pip.
Take a camp? Get a pip.
Kill at least 1 opposing player in the span of a 5min skirmish? Get a pip.
Take a tower? Get two pips.
Take a keep? Get three pips.
Take a T3 keep? Get seven pips.
Defend objectives? Get pips.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Agreed, that would probably lead to max capping faster BUT would also be a much richer game experience imho.

Ashen.2907:

Instead of increasing base pips I would like to see bonus pips for participation tier. A hardcore wvwer will be at tier six pretty consistently and so receive the same number of pips they do now. A more casual player who has fewer hours per week to play, but who really seeks to contribute when he does play, would see an increase in pip generation. This might also disincentivize afk pip farming, particularly if the outnumbered pip bonus were trimmed back some.

Haha we were actually discussing it with some guildies yesterday. Make T3 easily reachable but have it take quite some time to reach T6, and rewarding T6 with higher pips. Great idea too.

Deihnyx.6318:

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Escort a dolyak? Get a pip.
Take a camp? Get a pip.
Kill at least 1 opposing player in the span of a 5min skirmish? Get a pip.
Take a tower? Get two pips.
Take a keep? Get three pips.
Take a T3 keep? Get seven pips.
Defend objectives? Get pips.

~ Kovu

Agreed, that would probably lead to max capping faster BUT would also be a much richer game experience imho.

*nod

Perhaps have them accumulate and be rewarded after a 5 minute skirmish so that you can also grant small bonuses for things such as player rank and outnumbered. I mean that to the tune of 1 extra pip if you’re over rank 1k (and no more) and perhaps 2 extra pips if you play on an outnumbered map. Nothing that scales so heavily.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Escort a dolyak? Get a pip.
Take a camp? Get a pip.
Kill at least 1 opposing player in the span of a 5min skirmish? Get a pip.
Take a tower? Get two pips.
Take a keep? Get three pips.
Take a T3 keep? Get seven pips.
Defend objectives? Get pips.

~ Kovu

The problem of this in a game mode where team sizes fluctuate is it leads to so-called “ktraining”. Do you not remember the zergs of bots escorting yaks?

Botting is illegal, hardly a reason not to do something. That said, no system is unexploitable. The idea is you get less reward if the objective is paper.
Heck, its still a better alternative to map spawn queues. And better on principle that rewards are actually earned.

Lol @ what I see whilst roaming around these days. I find players (whom I’ve never seen before, with guild tags I’ve never seen before) tucked into the corners of maps away from zerg & roaming traffic, but close enough to tag and recap camps or sentries. I generally leave them alone.

Karma train pip farming > afk pip farming.

~ Kovu

WTH all this fuss about some pips for a backpack that does not even look that flash , does it make you fly , invulnerable or totally invisible no just because its a new thing every kid must have ,harden up and stop moaning and get on with it you give me the pips. either play WvW or not the choice is entirely yours I’m rank 2500 and get annoyed with the pip stuff I may or may not grind a backpack.

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Escort a dolyak? Get a pip.
Take a camp? Get a pip.
Kill at least 1 opposing player in the span of a 5min skirmish? Get a pip.
Take a tower? Get two pips.
Take a keep? Get three pips.
Take a T3 keep? Get seven pips.
Defend objectives? Get pips.

~ Kovu

That would lead to karma trains like the old EotM.

I really enjoy my 15 pips per out-manned tick.

I don’t think pips for ‘active play’ is a good idea. If AFKing is an issue, then fix AFKing, by having participation-granting events only grant a certain amount of participation time rather than everything but ruins filling it back to 10 minutes.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Wvwers seem very entitled all I keep reading is that they deserve this. Tell me then if we go into raids together to get legendary armor, do I get it 4xs faster then you? If not then why not? I have thousands of hours more in that game mode then you do.

How would you feel if all the LI’s you got before legendary armor came out…suddenly disappeared when the update brought legendary armor? And then with all those thousands of hours in raiding, someone brand new with no xp was promised a spot in your established group, barely assists in the kills, or even just dies/afks upon engaging, then got the same LI’s as you?

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

Escort a dolyak? Get a pip.
Take a camp? Get a pip.
Kill at least 1 opposing player in the span of a 5min skirmish? Get a pip.
Take a tower? Get two pips.
Take a keep? Get three pips.
Take a T3 keep? Get seven pips.
Defend objectives? Get pips.

~ Kovu

This sounds good on paper, but would ultimately lead to k-trains completely avoiding potentially good fights. For a large portion of players that now queue up the mode, it would turn it into another PvE map game of “Follow the Dorito.”

Sure there’s k-trains now, but not nearly as much as they could become. And unfortunately, ANET doesn’t seem to like rewarding defending, since successfully defending an objective doesn’t even award participation.

If you listen to the devs on Guild Chat they explain the pip system. Low ranking ppl arent expected to finish the track every week.

this is unfair!!!!
PVE lives matter

Problem PiP farmers are going to run into overtime is if their rank doesnt increase (because afk..sentry..afk) It really will take them forever. Even getting one more pip for their rank reduces the time to rewards. Initial boost is largest. From 1 pip to 2 pips…..THATS A 100% INCREASE. Lol. But say if yer last place going, commitment bonus, its a 25% increase. So grinders can spend 25% less time in wvw. If you dont wvw it will be a serious grind and you may end up getting the tickets but wont have the rank. My suggestion is to play the game mode rather than farm pips. Who knows…maybe it wont be a grind for you afterall. Maybe you will meet some cool new friends and have alot of fun in the shared goal of defecating all over your opponents.

If you think wvw is mindless you should prolly get in on those gvgs or command. Both are very engaging activities and have steep learning curves voice coms also helps you understand what may appear to be mindless activity or poor decisions. Sometimes it may be just that. Depends on your guild and your tag.

I’m just having fun, the queues are gone at least on my server, which is sad, it was a blast for that one week. Perhaps it will sorta even out a bit more.

However it is really nice to get extra rewards in WvW now, more than we have ever had. Plus the chance to play and hang out with my friends. The Pip ratio doesnt seem to bother most people around me.

Turk.5460:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Wvwers seem very entitled all I keep reading is that they deserve this. Tell me then if we go into raids together to get legendary armor, do I get it 4xs faster then you? If not then why not? I have thousands of hours more in that game mode then you do.

How would you feel if all the LI’s you got before legendary armor came out…suddenly disappeared when the update brought legendary armor? And then with all those thousands of hours in raiding, someone brand new with no xp was promised a spot in your established group, barely assists in the kills, or even just dies/afks upon engaging, then got the same LI’s as you?

Except your time didn’t disappear, you didn’t lose a rank or all the advantages (masteries) that came with it. You gained the ability to access T3 armor before everyone else (which is fair).
Also with raids, we knew very early on what would be the requirements: 150 LI for the legendary armor. If you wanted the armor at release date, you knew exactly what you had to do and could plan accordingly.
Someone brand new in raids is theoretically able to still get his legendary armor within 3 months, either by learning fast or getting carried. Same with fractals. And none of that require a steady 40 hours a week.

Anet had so many ways to give WvW vets some very nice treats. Heck locking the backpack behind a 3k rank would have made more sense than the current situation. A minimum rank is not timegated and infinitely better, AND you can’t just AFK it or you won’t reach the rank.
Think of all the other nice things you could get instead: Permanent discounts on WvW items, discounts on Waypoints (an incentive to PvE), cheapers infusions or ability to buy prenium infusion with special roXXor effects at rank 5k, 7k, new prestigious commander icon for high ranked… etc.

But no instead, they just allow you to play less of the mode you actually like by giving you more pips, while forcing everyone else to play an insane amount of time if they want to get the legendary within similar time than the other two backpacks.
It’s just… done backward lol.

Deihnyx.6318:

Also with raids, we knew very early on what would be the requirements: 150 LI for the legendary armor. If you wanted the armor at release date, you knew exactly what you had to do and could plan accordingly.

This is almost exactly the same argument I have been using all thread (but trying to explain why veterans do indeed deserve their bonuses), only I put the logic into an emotional scenario.

Once they added shiny rewards to PvP, it was clear that they were going to add something shiny to WvW. If you wanted whatever was going to be released at in WvW, you should have planned accordingly. Yes, I know, you did not know exactly what you would need or have to do…but actually playing the game mode is a logical start.

Again, I want to make it clear that I think the base pips should be increased to make it easier on newer players. My responses are all geared towards the people who are complaining that the more experienced veterans are gaining bonuses over the newer players.

Deihnyx.6318:

if they want to get the legendary within similar time than the other two backpacks.

I asked earlier in the thread and am still curious as to why you think this should be used as a comparison. The only connection these items have is that they are legendary back items. I think this would be a reasonable comparison if the game modes were all similar, but they are not.

Turk.5460:

I asked earlier in the thread and am still curious as to why you think this should be used as a comparison. The only connection these items have is that they are legendary back items. I think this would be a reasonable comparison if the game modes were all similar, but they are not.

Because we’re talking about fairness. If pvpers are asked to spend x amount of dedication on a mode to get something, it should be about the same on their own mode. It’s a personal opinion of course.
That’s if you care about shinies of course, which I’m pretty sure you don’t :P

Too many are equating uneven/unlevel to unfair. The rewards are not level. Winning servers get more, population starved maps get more, increased ranks get more, commander tags get more.

It’s not meant to be even NOR level. But it IS fair.

Strider Pj.2193:

Too many are equating uneven/unlevel to unfair. The rewards are not level. Winning servers get more, population starved maps get more, increased ranks get more, commander tags get more.

It’s not meant to be even NOR level. But it IS fair.

The bonuses are fair. Veteran bonuses, commander bonus, …uhh maybe not outnumbered bonus, that could be toned down a little.

But the base pips are what this thread is now about (if you can sift through the replies against/for the bonus pips due to rank), which is still unreasonable.

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended. Id a newbie wants the same rewards as vet they have to work alot harder. My reccomendation is to enjoy your celery stick.

Kovu.7560:

Reward pips for actively accomplishing things in wvw instead of passive things like wvw rank or the outnumbered buff. Moreover, so long as pips continue to be tied to the world’s most lenient participation mechanic, AFKHeroes taking up que spots will continue to reign.

I agree to the general idea here.
Actively participating should reward pips.
during the 5 minutes you do stuff around the game and the end of the 5 minutes you get pips based on what you did.

Like for example
Leading skirmish? +3 pips.
Took a camp? +1 pip.
Killed at least enemy played/yak? +1 pip.
Defended an objective? +2 pips

So you get, say, 3 pips for being #1, plus 4 for actively doing stuff which means 7 pips.
If you don’t do anything then you get basically nothing.

Number of pip can also scale with the tier of the objective/number of people you kill in the 5min span.

A system along these lines would be better I think.

I’m mostly a PvE player since beta (like working on 2nd set of legendary armor) and very casually gained 330 WvW ranks since beta. I call BS on the “PvErs” and “new wvw players” complaining about the rewards.

Guild hall commendation vendor sometimes sells 1-3 WvW supplies. ALWAYS buy them daily if available. PvE players can also get WvW supplies from the Ley-Energy matter converter some days. It gives RNG bonus WvW exp and metabolic primers and sometimes a Wxp booster.
Celebration booster: 100% wvw bonus exp
Guild hall bonus: 10% wvw exp bonus
Outnumbered: 25% wvw exp bonus
Exp booster (Laurel or candy corn gobbler): 50%
Wvw Exp booster: 50%
Don’t just AFK with the outnumbered bonus, cap stuff. Kill yaks. Flip guards. Go up to a t3 garri and just murder the NPCS then walk away. I’ve gained about 110 WvW ranks in the past 2 weeks. 60 of them were two nights ago when I decided to join a wvw guild and run a proper wvw build AND POP ALL THE FREAKING EXP BOOSTERS. 60 levels in ~4 hours. If a new person decides to dedicate 20 hours a week to WvW and really try hard with a guild instead of just afking for pips, you can level really fast.

You should be in bronze within a week. I’ll probably hit Silver next week. Two more weeks and I’ll be at Gold. The “loyalty” bonus is now only 1 week required and gives 1 pip. Going to assume an average of 2nd place which is 2 pips. When you finally hit silver that’s 2 bonus pips. Gold is 3. Gold+”Loyalty”+2nd place = 20 hours a week to get max pips. Put in 1 month of effort! and you’ll be maxing out on pips per week. Will I reach max pips per week for the first month? I haven’t the first two weeks but I just hit mithril last night.

Heibi.4251:

Heibi.4251:

snip.

First thing of all, I don’t think anet owe me something, i just think the way pips are scale base on rank are way too high… a new player need to play 40+ hours in a week while someone in high rank only need 20 hours. thats 20 hours different per week… so people like me have to spend extra 20 hours more every weeks for just to get the same reward….

Don’t sit there trying to afk the outnumbered bonus or complain about rewards. Get gud wvw steroids and play the game mode. Don’t spend 40h a week. Just dedicate 20h a week and if you miss mithril/diamond for 3 weeks, you’ll be a grand total of… 1.3 week behind. You need the levels to even spend the tokens to begin with!

PabbyGaul.9682:

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended.

Working as intended doesn’t always mean working best, as it was shown many, many times with anet reworking older systems, reworking pvp pips, reworking pve traits, etc. This is hardly an argument in favor or against the current system, it’s just stating what the current system is right now.
For example, in game pretty much everyone agrees that the outnumbered pip is too much. If we never discuss anything, then let’s just admit everything is perfect and be done with it.

I dunno, if I was a vet I would spend less time trying to fight my right to “play less” my main mode and instead ask bonus that benefits me directly rather than punishing others.

Bloodyjoker.4327:

Don’t sit there trying to afk the outnumbered bonus or complain about rewards. Get gud wvw steroids and play the game mode. Don’t spend 40h a week. Just dedicate 20h a week and if you miss mithril/diamond for 3 weeks, you’ll be a grand total of… 1.3 week behind. You need the levels to even spend the tokens to begin with!

It’s just gonna be another argument about the “working at intended”. The rank needed for the backpack is… 350. Mid-bronze. By just afking flip camp/sentries you will get to that by the end of your “grinding” journey.

So let me ask, or reask again. Do you want people to play decently for 10/20 hours and afk for the last 20, or wouldn’t it make more sense to increase the rank required for the backpack, and instead reducing the amount of pips required per week?

Also 60 levels for 4h, 1 rank every 4 minutes? That is far from being an average. Maybe you get lucky and blobs of people come dying at you but defending, capping does not level you up that fast, booster or not.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

…60 of them were two nights ago when I decided to join a wvw guild and run a proper wvw build AND POP ALL THE FREAKING EXP BOOSTERS. 60 levels in ~4 hours.

Thats 1,250 WvW XP per minute.

You did not gain 60 ranks in 4hours. Please don’t lie so blatantly in the future, it greatly weakens your argument.

The difference between wvw and pvp/pve is that rewards in pvp/pve are obtained faster with better skills where in wvw it is obtained by mindless grind.

I feel like we are almost done with the “Pip Talk”

Hype is over, we got some new players, the rest went back to whatever they do:)

God Bless.

I agree that these skins and the legendary backpack shouId carry ‘prestige’, as much as that is possible in a game(!) and should not just turn into another 2-week Living Story grind for shinies! However…… I don’t think it’s unreasonable to debate if Anet quite have this right so far.

Personally, I’d take 2 points away from ‘Outnumbered’ and give 2 more to everyone by a 5/4/3 Skirmish reward.

Outnumbered is just too strong at the moment. Why, if I was a PvE player, trying out WvW would I spend my time learning this very different game mode for 1-3 Pips (2-4 with commitment bonus) when I can get 6-8 (7-9 with commitment) hanging out in spawn and capping a camp or killing a guard every 5 mins! That’s a 500% pip bonus for a new player on a losing server :0.

The vet bonus is also ‘very strong’ at the moment. It is fair that those of us who have sunk years into this game should get something back, even if some of those vets cheesed their rank in EoTM. But I think an extra 7 pips would still be a fair reward if a new player was getting a minimum of 3. This huge difference in the rate of earning Pips also leads to some of the ‘misunderstandings’ between vets and newcomers over the time needed to get the new rewards!

Others might suggest a different way of adjusting the rewards, but there has been enough life in this debate to suggest it is not just going to ‘go away’, before something is done.

I’m still fairly new to this game, and have only just recently (little longer than a month?) got into WvW – about to hit rank 130 I think. I’m not complaining since I’m having a blast, and I don’t expect anything to be handed to me. If I wanted that I’d go back to that other mmo that shall not be named, BUT…………the only time I have even reached platinum was when the patch hit. Since then I’m lucky to even get through half a gold.

At this rate I’ll be able to craft my 1st Ascended piece in another few weeks? LOL

New wvw player here—yes, since patch. I decided to try it now, because of patch and I need Gift of Battle. I play sPVP sometimes, but never ranked, because I’ve never enjoyed PvP as much as other game modes.

But I LOVE WvW! Wish I had started sooner. And I intend to keep playing it, even after getting GofB. (Many thanks to the thief who grouped with me and showed me the basics of roaming.) And I don’t mind veteran players earning pips faster, or how long it takes to get the backpack, whatever. I don’t have to have ALL the shinies, but I will work for ones I like. And I like the backpack, and I am okay if it takes me 1, 2, or even 3 years to get it.

My ONLY issue with the current reward system is the weekly reset. I consider myself a dedicated casual. Casual, in that I can’t always play every day or even every week; dedicated in that when I do play, I do try to improve and contribute to whatever game mode I play. I have played as much as I can this week, pretty much all in WvW, and I may not even complete wood, and will not even have one skirmish ticket. And that would be fine, except come the reset, I have to start all over.

Every other game mode (except ranked PVP, and this is one reason I don’t play it) allows me to keep my progress, even if I can’t play. I don’t lose map exploration, raiders don’t lose their earned LI, I don’t lose AP, don’t lose character levels, etc. GW2 is considered casual friendly because even casual players will eventually earn rewards; it just takes us a lot longer. And that is FINE.

But I may never earn one skirmish ticket with the current WvW system, and although will still play it because it is fun, it is also frustrating that I may never get ahead on the chest system. So maybe I just won’t play WvW as often once I get GofB. Because although enjoyable, it is disheartening to feel like I am losing progress for the time and effort I HAVE put into WvW.

So ANet, please make the pips work like a reward track, and lose the weekly reset. It can still take a LOT longer to complete than the standard reward tracks, and that would be fine. So just like every other area of the game—if you put in the time, you will get the rewards. Whether you put in all the time in two weeks or 12 months, you will eventually get rewards.