Guild Wars 2

Strider Pj.2193:

I am sorry, you state that you have stated above enough. I disagree.

You also haven’t addressed that it isn’t a punishment. There IS no penalty. There are limitations. Which in my opinion are fine. We disagree on the limitations being fine.

I find the limitations fair.

You also didn’t address my statements regarding EOTM, which, again, is NOT World vs World. Until it becomes that, it should not (and Anet has stated as such) get the same rewards as a world vs world specific skin.

As to your claim of ‘punishments’: what are the punishments? What do they lose? What game play featured and advantages do they miss out on? Ranking allows you additional assistance in WvW. It should be integral in any system.

Quite frankly, the limitations (which by any definition is what they are) encourage you to be a more contributing member to the world va world format by increasing your WvW attributes.

Okay, that’s no problem. I’ll try to explain again why I personally think it is punishing for many people.
The issue here is that people will always try to get the Outnumbered buff when playing WvW and are afk most of the time. I can’t even complain about these people, because that’s the most logical and rewarding thing to do at the moment. This behaviour though is harmful for the whole WvW experience and punishes people in a way that it makes it impossible to play the game mode intensely like before. World vs. World relies heavily on teamplay but with the current aquisition of pips people are not interested in playing competitively anymore like they did before – at least not to this extent. People are missing out on many activities throughout the maps, because there are not enough people who care and are impossible to do alone. I think it’s kind of a punishment too if I don’t get the same rewards as other people for actively playing and contributing. It should be the other way around.

And why should I say anything about your opinion regarding Edge of the Mists? It’s okay, I don’t want to attack it. We just have completely different opinions of what Edge of the Mists is/should be. For me the stated similarities are enough for it to be considered a WvW map, for you they are not. But as EotM is now, there’s no reason for people to actually go there.

Chaba.5410:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

In PVP, you want the backpiece (a long term goal), where that’s actual skill than a zerg bukkakke, you get awarded pips and go through the ranks accordingly based on how well you do, which eventually leads to the backpiece in two seasons or three.

Let’s not be misleading though since zerging occurs in sPvP too. Zerging is more likely to result in a loss though because sPvP’s teams are of equal size make zerging inefficient.

Additionally sPvP teams that are well-matched in skill but suffer from a DC can end up losing due to the same population imbalances that are normal for a WvW match. Teams that are outnumbered in sPvP but higher in skill than the other team can still manage to pull off a win.

It would be foolish to say the same thing doesn’t happen in WvW when a smaller group of higher skill can pick apart a lower skilled but more numerous zerg or force the enemy zerging to be inefficient by out-rotating just because it is more difficult to notice. WvW matches are far longer and team sizes, skill, and composition constantly fluctuates through-out the match unlike in sPvP.

It’s not misleading, you can’t zerg in PvP and except to do well. You need to have proper composition, and know how to properly rotate the map accordingly to the weaknesses and strengths you’re facing with the different match-ups within. Even more, if you’re a good player paired with another good player you can out rotate and exploit the weaknesses of the opposing team. WvW besides zerg busters is just a bukkakke fest where you make sure you have proper classes for frontline and backlines with pushing properly with your commander. Acting as if a rank in that game mode is prestigious is a joke.

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Chaba.5410:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

In PVP, you want the backpiece (a long term goal), where that’s actual skill than a zerg bukkakke, you get awarded pips and go through the ranks accordingly based on how well you do, which eventually leads to the backpiece in two seasons or three.

Let’s not be misleading though since zerging occurs in sPvP too. Zerging is more likely to result in a loss though because sPvP’s teams are of equal size make zerging inefficient.

Additionally sPvP teams that are well-matched in skill but suffer from a DC can end up losing due to the same population imbalances that are normal for a WvW match. Teams that are outnumbered in sPvP but higher in skill than the other team can still manage to pull off a win.

It would be foolish to say the same thing doesn’t happen in WvW when a smaller group of higher skill can pick apart a lower skilled but more numerous zerg or force the enemy zerging to be inefficient by out-rotating just because it is more difficult to notice. WvW matches are far longer and team sizes, skill, and composition constantly fluctuates through-out the match unlike in sPvP.

It’s not misleading, you can’t zerg in PvP and except to do well. You need to have proper composition, and know how to properly rotate the map accordingly to the weaknesses and strengths you’re facing with the different match-ups within. Even more, if you’re a good player paired with another good player you can out rotate and exploit the weaknesses of the opposing team. WvW besides zerg busters is just a bukkakke fest where you make sure you have proper classes for frontline and backlines with pushing properly with your commander. Acting as if a rank in that game mode is prestigious is a joke.

Teams that zerg in sPvP can and do win matches against players less skilled than them despite being teams of equal size.

I feel like you didn’t really digest anything I wrote about why zerging doesn’t work in sPvP, why it does in WvW, and how a team can still out-rotate in WvW. Then you jumped off on some tangent about rank as prestige, something I never said. I suspect it is you who think the WvW skins are supposed to represent prestige and that’s why all this bothers you. Like, the claim tickets are time-gated to 175 per week anyway. As has been pointed out, it will take roughly two years worth of claim tickets even for veterans to get all the skins. What prestige is being gotten by having higher rank now rather than two years from now?

[/quote]

Learn to accept what being a casual is.

Not everything in this game has to be obtained by casuals playing at their usual pace in 1 year or less.

Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. That is only required to max out the PIPS earned per week. Guess what? It’s not required to do that in order to get the rewards. So let’s stop talking about that as if it’s a requirement.

And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?[/quote]

You said, “Learn to accept what being a casual is.”

You do realize you can casually play, and make the process go by faster reasonably through how well you do in every other game mode? See, you don’t seem to realize it’s not about expecting to be awarded the same as people who are higher ranked, the issue is the amount of time required to achieve anything reasonably.

You then said, "Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. "

It’s pointed out right in the OP, where he states "Looking at my pip gain in silver—between 33% and 50% of my total pips are due to my rank. If I was in gold I would be earning over 50% of my pips from my rank. I also play a fair bit on outnumbered maps because I solo and group roam more often than not to support my team. The largest pip gains are outnumbered (largest share of pips earned) followed by slightly less pips from rank.

The problem is multiplicative. I get 2 pips per tick at silver. In the time a bronze player earns 60, I earn 120. Gold earns 180. Platinum earns 240.

The reward track assumes players will earn “enough” pips at a certain playtime per day.

3 pips per tick is 40.27 hours
5 pips per tick is 24.16 hours
7 pips per tick is 16.9 hours
9 pips per tick is 13.42 hours"

You act as if this is analogous to someone complaining they need 30kAP+ to get the radiant or hellfire armor. There’s no issue with those long term goals, just as there’s no complaint that legendary armor will take 4months+ to get or the back-pieces will take a few months or more as well. The issue is laid out when you were asked, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards? Instead of comprehending that issue, ones like you move the goal post and say there shouldn’t be instant gratification or expectation of newer players being awarded on par with higher ranked players. The situation would be similar to raiding, if you’re new you can still get max magnetite shards weekly, and go through your collection reasonably well. However, a person that has all the masteries and equipment can get further rewarded more by being able to do the challenge motes, raid sells, and have a easier time clearing, which all again can be achieved through skillful play.

You then said, “And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?”

Why do you have such dichotomous thinking? It’s not a either or issue. The issue isn’t there shouldn’t be long term goals, or ones with high ranks should attain more. Rather the pip system for newer players makes no sense, and goes against other game modes where all the features you want is intact, but with a reasonable amount awarded to everyone, especially those with skillful play.

Encouraging people to play on outnumbered maps is one of the best thing for havoc groups that has been introduced, though I will not deny there are people abusing it.

It has been fun keeping another World’s home border from being able to upgrade its items, and getting Zerged down. And do you know why? Because if their World has to send its Zerg to respond, it allows our World to continue to hit them.

If the buff drops, I know I have help if we need to respond to an upgraded structure, and many of us WILL call it out, despite the buff.

I still don’t find it punishing, nor is your statement a Punishment.

If you do not like hopping into an outnumbered map and you are doing it solely for the pips, I do not think you are being punished. They are choosing to game the system for the rewards.

And that is what feels like a punishment. That they have to wait longer. Which is a limitation, not a punishment.

Musica Arcaida.4685:

You said, “Learn to accept what being a casual is.”

You do realize you can casually play, and make the process go by faster reasonably through how well you do in every other game mode? See, you don’t seem to realize it’s not about expecting to be awarded the same as people who are higher ranked, the issue is the amount of time required to achieve anything reasonably.

You then said, "Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. "

It’s pointed out right in the OP, where he states "Looking at my pip gain in silver—between 33% and 50% of my total pips are due to my rank. If I was in gold I would be earning over 50% of my pips from my rank. I also play a fair bit on outnumbered maps because I solo and group roam more often than not to support my team. The largest pip gains are outnumbered (largest share of pips earned) followed by slightly less pips from rank.

The problem is multiplicative. I get 2 pips per tick at silver. In the time a bronze player earns 60, I earn 120. Gold earns 180. Platinum earns 240.

The reward track assumes players will earn “enough” pips at a certain playtime per day.

3 pips per tick is 40.27 hours
5 pips per tick is 24.16 hours
7 pips per tick is 16.9 hours
9 pips per tick is 13.42 hours"

You act as if this is analogous to someone complaining they need 30kAP+ to get the radiant or hellfire armor. There’s no issue with those long term goals, just as there’s no complaint that legendary armor will take 4months+ to get or the back-pieces will take a few months or more as well. The issue is laid out when you were asked, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards? Instead of comprehending that issue, ones like you move the goal post and say there shouldn’t be instant gratification or expectation of newer players being awarded on par with higher ranked players. The situation would be similar to raiding, if you’re new you can still get max magnetite shards weekly, and go through your collection reasonably well. However, a person that has all the masteries and equipment can get further rewarded more by being able to do the challenge motes, raid sells, and have a easier time clearing, which all again can be achieved through skillful play.

You then said, “And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?”

Why do you have such dichotomous thinking? It’s not a either or issue. The issue isn’t there shouldn’t be long term goals, or ones with high ranks should attain more. Rather the pip system for newer players makes no sense, and goes against other game modes where all the features you want is intact, but with a reasonable amount awarded to everyone, especially those with skillful play.

And you seem to fail to grasp that for casual players some rewards WILL fall outside of the time frame that makes the reward worthwhile for them strive for at the current time. And that that is completely reasonable to expect out of an MMO that’s not on it’s death bed. And with talk of another expansion pack coming, GW2 is not on its death bed.

And you failed to read the word REQUIRED. You aren’t required to max out the PIPS per tick in order to progress in whatever it is that you want. And maybe that was INTENTIONAL. Maybe ANet did not want a majority of players to max out the PIPS per tick. To always give players a drive to play more. And that is the goal of any MMO: to get players to play more. Just because a cap exists, doesn’t mean that ANet expects many players to hit it. To have an urge to move to the outnumbered map – if you’re at cap, where’s the reward for going to an outnumbered map?

And maybe the point about long term goals wasn’t a counter to the fact that it’s currently the first of it’s kind. And I hope they introduce similar mechanics to PvE and PvP. ANet’s allowed to introduce things that do not have something similar in game. They wouldn’t be able to come up with wildly new content or reward schemes if they were locked into keeping everything comparable at every step of the way.

You said there shouldn’t be rewards that can’t earned in a reasonable time frame. So I assumed based on your current position that the time it takes to earn the T3 armor is not a reasonable time frame to you. Therefore, anything that would award players at higher ranks would therefore also be earned in an unreasonable time frame for you.

Or are you just not communicating well that you feel the rank and what not for the T3 armor is fine, you just don’t like the speed at which PIPS are earned? With threads being merged, it’s harder to keep track of who has what exact position.

I wouldn’t have a problem with base PIPS being raised. That way players can still feel some sense of progress without feeling the need to max out. So if the current spread in min PIPS and max PIPS is 10, if the base PIPS are increased by 10, then the max would be raised by 10 as well. 10 is just an example and not necessarily the value that should be used.

[/quote]

And you seem to fail to grasp that for casual players some rewards WILL fall outside of the time frame that makes the reward worthwhile for them strive for at the current time. And that that is completely reasonable to expect out of an MMO that’s not on it’s death bed. And with talk of another expansion pack coming, GW2 is not on its death bed.

And you failed to read the word REQUIRED. You aren’t required to max out the PIPS per tick in order to progress in whatever it is that you want. And maybe that was INTENTIONAL. Maybe ANet did not want a majority of players to max out the PIPS per tick. To always give players a drive to play more. And that is the goal of any MMO: to get players to play more. Just because a cap exists, doesn’t mean that ANet expects many players to hit it. To have an urge to move to the outnumbered map – if you’re at cap, where’s the reward for going to an outnumbered map?

And maybe the point about long term goals wasn’t a counter to the fact that it’s currently the first of it’s kind. And I hope they introduce similar mechanics to PvE and PvP. ANet’s allowed to introduce things that do not have something similar in game. They wouldn’t be able to come up with wildly new content or reward schemes if they were locked into keeping everything comparable at every step of the way.

You said there shouldn’t be rewards that can’t earned in a reasonable time frame. So I assumed based on your current position that the time it takes to earn the T3 armor is not a reasonable time frame to you. Therefore, anything that would award players at higher ranks would therefore also be earned in an unreasonable time frame for you.

Or are you just not communicating well that you feel the rank and what not for the T3 armor is fine, you just don’t like the speed at which PIPS are earned? With threads being merged, it’s harder to keep track of who has what exact position.

I wouldn’t have a problem with base PIPS being raised. That way players can still feel some sense of progress without feeling the need to max out. So if the current spread in min PIPS and max PIPS is 10, if the base PIPS are increased by 10, then the max would be raised by 10 as well. 10 is just an example and not necessarily the value that should be used.[/quote]

Where did I imply ALL rewards should be acquired fast, or fall within a current time frame for casual players? Of course rewards such as the last tier or third will take a long time, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It takes 4+months to get the legendary armor, and a few months to get the backpieces. Yet, you’re able to expedite that process reasonably well.

The point is being made is acquiring pips, to go through a tier and pass through wood for example requires a great amount of time, which others have noted as 40hrs+. I asked you where is that present in any game mode that actually has also long term goals, you couldn’t even answer and act obtuse like I’m asking for a 30kAP armor set to be awarded to people who don’t put the time into AP chasing. I even made it clear to you that I’m not talking about T3 armor, I’m talking about T2 or weapons for example, and put it into prospective that it takes a week to just get one T2 boot.

Omg. Same arguements. This whole rabbit hole needs to go. Ppl dont understand the game mode why understand the rewards? Max pip calculations, time to candy, spawn farming, its all a ridiculous attempt to grind something that isnt meant to be ground. Anets got the statistics. They explained the rational and your arguements show yuou havent understood the purpose. Please go watch the Guild Chat.

The fact that ppl have rank that requires years to get and they asked for some meaning to it is irreconcilable with your desires to have it now.

So. Even if you get it now what should high ranks have to rank for?

Id say remove the pip nonsense and rank gate everything with obscene badge requirements.

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Where did I imply ALL rewards should be acquired fast, or fall within a current time frame for casual players? Of course rewards such as the last tier or third will take a long time, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It takes 4+months to get the legendary armor, and a few months to get the backpieces. Yet, you’re able to expedite that process reasonably well.

The point is being made is acquiring pips, to go through a tier and pass through wood for example requires a great amount of time, which others have noted as 40hrs+. I asked you where is that present in any game mode that actually has also long term goals, you couldn’t even answer and act obtuse like I’m asking for a 30kAP armor set to be awarded to people who don’t put the time into AP chasing. I even made it clear to you that I’m not talking about T3 armor, I’m talking about T2 or weapons for example, and put it into prospective that it takes a week to just get one T2 boot.

And I answered your question about where there is anything else like it: ANet is allowed to add things that do not have comparable things in other modes.

YOU SAID IT! That you think all rewards should be able to be earned with a reasonable time frame.

Let’s assume the following conditions:

1. You’re able to get to max PIPS and max ticket count every time.
2. You work towards one goal at a time.
3. You don’t miss a week.
4. You hit the required rank the moment you hit the right number of tickets
5. Perfect world scenario for anything I missed

Max Tickets per week is 175.
Each year has 52 weeks.
Total tickets per year is 9100
Total tickets in 2 years is: 18200
Total tickets in 3 years is 27300

People say it takes 2 years to get the 2K armor set. Regardless of whether or not that’s accurate, we’re going to use it for the sake of making sure we’re both on the same page.

And let’s assume for the sake of argument that it takes 1 year to get the T2 armor – no one’s coughed up a time frame. Insert however much time you believe it takes currently where ever you see 1 year for this part of the example. You believe that 1 year is unreasonable. So if another reward comes around that takes 1 year + 1 day to get, wouldn’t that also be unreasonable? So if they put in a reward that takes getting to max rank to achieve and that takes 9 years (assuming each tier takes Tier – 1 years to make), that would therefore be unreasonable.

If you haven’t figured it out by now, I’m very literal. If you say X time is unreasonable, I’m going to assume that you feel X+1 time is unreasonable, too.

Edited to fix the quoting

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Ashen.2907:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

spvp does not mechanically award game time
pve does not mechanically award game time
wvw does mechanically award game time

all game modes award player skill to varying extents and of course if you play any game mode long enough you’ll get more rewards. But im talking about coded systems which reward you simply because your rank/playtime is high with more rewards/easier rewards, independently of what you do in each game mode or how well you play. (basically it awards you more because of your OVERALL play time, even if you are standing there)

wvw system, mechanically the system is fair in the sense that it is the same grind for everyone, the rules do not change from player to player. x number of hours = x number of rewards. But it is a bell curve as i will explain next.

wvw system is unfair in the sense that the penalties associated for new players translates to increased required time spent in order to earn the same rewards as “veteran wvwers.” this can be solved by balancing it or just letting everyone earn the same pips. That way time spent playing wvw = fair amount of rewards gained for the time put in.

If they want to retroactively go back and award everyone (which is what they said they wanted to do). They should not reward “veteran” players by giving them less grind per week to recieve rewards. This makes “veteran” rewards directly penalize newer/lower rank players because in essence that is the reward, penalizing others. The reward in essence is not being handicapped like newer players. This is detrimental and dissuasive to the wvw player base as a whole.

when you take this system and compare it to all other game modes, its completely an outlier and makes no sense to the cohesiveness that is gw2.

The game rewards us for time spent. This is by design. Just the act of having spent the few seconds needed to log in more times than a new player means that I will have accumulated more rewards than he. Killing mobs in queensdale alone , requiring no skill, and little effort, for almost 5 years before someone who joins the game today would mean being able to access rewards faster than they can.

One of the complaints I have seen since launch is that the game does not reward skilled play sufficiently compared to rewards for just showing up and spending time.

In GW2 time > almost anything else. You may not like this, but it isnt unique to wvw and it isnt new. It just happens that this instance involves a situation where some people, who havent spent the time, want the rewards for doing so.

So you’re saying a crappy players in PVP and PVE (T4 Fotms & Raids) will be rewarded nicely regardless of skills, but instead on time they spend as is the case in zerg fiesta? Some of you WvW players make no god kitten sense. In PvE, if you’re good you can progress through your collection and weekly rewards at a faster rate. It’s not based on higher rank as WvW is, but skill regardless if you’re new or not. PVP it’s the same thing, you acquire more pips not based on how many times you lvled up passed dragon rank, but on how well you actually do in matches. It’s perfectly fine to have rewards for higher ranked zerg fiesta players, but stop acting like a system that rewards people for being high ranking and greatly handicaps lower ranks, and not skillful play as is the case in every other game mode is reasonable. I don’t have to spend a inordinate amount of time in PVP or PVE Raids and T4s to be rewarded in a reasonable consistent manner on actual skillful play, but I do in WvW, which makes no sense.

You might want to reread my post because it doesnt say what you claim.

How much skillful play does the largest component content of the game, open world PvE, require?

I am primary a PvE player. Rank 265 reached yesterday.

You said, “How much skillful play does the largest component content of the game, open world PvE, require”

So getting raid kills, and being able to have items interact with raid instances that need to be clear is open world now? You do realize to get through those collections you need to actually get through the raid encounters besides the offshoot objectives?

I never said that raid instances are open world.

I asked how much skillful play does open world PvE require? As open world PvE is the majority of the game its lack of requirement for skilled play supports my earlier position. Raids and T4 Fractals are a tiny percentage of the game.

I’m gonna keep comparing with others modes, since this is the most factual example we have to demonstrate why the current system is punishing/unfair.

First of all, if you’re immediately gonna say “this is not the same thing, this is not pve/pvp, it’s gotta be different”. Either don’t or explain why it has to be different. This is not acceptable to keep spamming that, hiding other arguments, if you’re not providing any to support your case. Everyone put time in the mode they like the most, you consider WvW is more time worthy, explain, prove it, otherwise it remains an opinion, and just an opinion.

Secondly, the REASON why people want the rewards is off topic, there is no “good” or “bad” reason to play the game. That again is only an opinion, everyone paid for the game and is allowed to enjoy its content for the reasons they see fit.

Ok. So the problem is that they introduced a new currency (well, old but they reintroduced it as a permanent thing) that is limited on time. You only get a certain amount a week.
- The Fractal equivalent is pages, not level 100 with AR ascended. You need to get to rank 2 to start getting your 2 pages/day. 7 hours a week, being very, very generous
- The Raid equivalent is LI, it’s 13 a week. The time required is based solemnly on skill. From 3 hours to infinite.
- The PVP requirement is… playing during pvp season, the ascended shards are not timegated, repeating the last chest doesn’t remove them. An hour everyday (7h/week) is more than enough to complete all the chests in 2 months.
All these modes have one thing in common: Whether you’re new to the mode or not, you can get exactly the same amount of that specific currency today. And this timegated currency is something that is there to keep you playing a bit everyday/week, it isn’t meant to make you play that mode 3-6 hours a day.

The real token of your past experience is your rank. Not the WvW tickets. Again comparing with the other modes:
PVP: Your PVP rank: Gives you access to additional finishers (that’s all they get yes, not specific advantage)
Fractals: Access to higher fractal tiers, more ascended stuff, fractal backpack
Raids: You simply get the kills faster if you’re good/experienced. And you are ahead with LIs.

Now you can tell me sure but so vet raiders have indeed an advantage! Yes but not an unfair one. If you want to start raids today, you can get your 13 LI within the same time as anybody else. You aren’t asked to go back to only doing w1 and earning w1 rewards for a few months, then do w1-w2 for a few other months, etc. Everything is readily available to you.
That is what you are asking with this pip system you are calling fair, you are asking a new player to retroactively “give their time” to the WvW god before you can start earning the same timegated rewards as the others.
If you do a strict comparison to the other modes, this is indeed unfair. It does punish you for not having played earlier by adding a second gate, beside rank. A new system is in place in June 2017, everyone should be able to put the required 1h/day to cap the timegated currency.
The immediate answers are either “you want insta rewards!” or “we deserve this”. No, for that specific part, you don’t deserve it more than anyone else. It is also HYPOCRITE to say that people are basically asking for insta rewards. They WILL have to grind the ranks anyway, just like you did. If they’re slow they’ll get it in a few years anyway. You aren’t simply asking for an advantage (you already have it) you are happy to push new players further down.

What would NOT be unfair (and is already in place for the most part) would be to gate the rewards behind high ranks, or any form of non timegated, permanent advantage. The difference then if that people can catch up at their own speed on ranks, while being on par with the other modes when it comes to timegated rewards.

If you absolutely have to keep the rank pips, that’s okay, but make sure that the base pips allow for reaching the timegated reward within a reasonable amount of time, if you want more grindy rewards after that, that is fine, but the WvW tickets must remain in control and accessible within a reasonable amount of time.
Hell, if you spent less time fighting people for trying to get a fair experience, you could be asking for stuff that would be ACTUALLY good for you. PVP chests get a renewed 20g per last chest, if you had forgotten.

Also one bit of personal opinions. Some vets are absolutely marvelous and welcoming, I must say the experience in game has been really good so far.
But some other people here on the forum… I don’t know, I feel that they are mainly here to ensure they get as much as they can out of this, no matter if others are left out. Why aren’t you welcoming this renewed interest for the game mode you play the most? What exactly is your problem with making this mode less discouraging, you who keep pretending you don’t care about trivialities such as rewards?

So I waded through most of this thread and I still don’t really understand why people can’t just play the game and accept that the rewards will come in time. If you don’t enjoy what you do in this game or in life, don’t do it. It’s just a skin or a piece of gear you can get in easier ways.

We don’t pay a monthly sub here so we are not entitled to anything and, for the most part, Anet is really good at grind vs cash shop.

Just play the game.

This thread is literally just 3 people throwing a tantrum because they’re being forced to finally enter wvw, posting the same thing over and over, not learning from anybody who bothers to respond, staying completely ignorant.

If you can’t just sit down play the game and have fun then i’m seriously wondering what on earth you keep bothering to post for, just pack your bags and leave,. these forums and this game will be alot better for it.

Deadhorse.gif

VaaCrow.3076:

This thread is literally just 3 people throwing a tantrum because they’re being forced to finally enter wvw, posting the same thing over and over, not learning from anybody who bothers to respond, staying completely ignorant.

If you can’t just sit down play the game and have fun then i’m seriously wondering what on earth you keep bothering to post for, just pack your bags and leave,. these forums and this game will be alot better for it.

Deadhorse.gif

The same plague can be found on both sides.

There are definitely new players that want the moon and this doesn’t help coming to a peaceful understanding, however there’s also a small number of people who are more than happy to circle back on what their vision of wvw entails (reason for playing: not your business) or straight up lie about people wanting insta rewards.
If you are one of those who think the current system works as intended, and at the same time are using either of these tricks in your argumentation, you are contributing to the same posts circling back.

Believe it or not there are people, including vets, that are answering with interest, even admitting something could be done about base pips. They’re just being neutral and don’t play on prejudices.

Debunk arguments with counter-arguments. Even if 5 people tell you you shouldn’t play for rewards, that doesn’t make them “win” a discussion.

At that point I’m simply waiting for someone with enough integrity and knowledge of the game as a whole to argue the specific points and solutions I brought up. Still hoping

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly. Rewards are an incentive to play, but shouldn’t be the sole reason to play. It’s also why I prefer them tied to skirmish rewards rather than by capping objectives, as that too would only cause a ktrain.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Honestly if the only thing you can think of to keep players in wvw is a grind then the game mode doesn’t deserve players. If people come into wvw for candy and then leave, all that means is that the candy did it’s job and got people into the game mode and then then once they obtained the rewards, the game mode didn’t keep people interested. Lowering the amount of pips required or increasing the amount of pips gained doesn’t affect what the carrot on the stick was designed to do (get players into the game mode).

The grind Is not s substitution for wvw content nor does it make the game mode any more exciting, if players want To leave after getting rewards then maybe wvw isn’t that fun.

The people who want the “candy” are going to stay for their “candy” regardless, and if they leave, they leave. There is no predicting that, everyone is different. I saw the most activity and most fun in WvW in a very long time the week this update rolled out. Regardless of skill level, the increased active population was very welcome. You’ll see that there are no more queues, and the population dropped again – possibly due to the daunting requirements/rate of reward. So I ask again:

Do you care about WvW Rewards more than the WvW game mode?

If the answer is no, then please take your irrational opposition to this QoL discussion elsewhere. There are some people in here trying to convince themselves (poorly) that the game mode would become overall less fun if new recruits didn’t have to grind as much as they currently do. – The game mode would be better off without people with that type of mindset, but then again, that’s probably where all the funny salt whispers come from.

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Do you like having fresh new allies and fresh new meat to kill? Do you not realize that the point of the skins is to get the “scavengers” to try out the game mode? If they enter WvW for the rewards, then leave a day or two later due to the rewards being too difficult – that is not a proper WvW experience. I certainly wouldn’t have gotten a feel for WvW (which is now my only game mode) if I only tried it out for a couple of days.

People grinded out ascension in what, a month? Sure, lets not have that type of thing here in WvW, but there is absolutely no reason that it should take years of reaching for a goal for certain people to reap the benefits. – Yes, I know, we played for years without rewards, but this goal did not exist for us to even reach for at that time.

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Do you like having fresh new allies and fresh new meat to kill? Do you not realize that the point of the skins is to get the “scavengers” to try out the game mode? If they enter WvW for the rewards, then leave a day or two later due to the rewards being too difficult – that is not a proper WvW experience. I certainly wouldn’t have gotten a feel for WvW (which is now my only game mode) if I only tried it out for a couple of days.

People grinded out ascension in what, a month? Sure, lets not have that type of thing here in WvW, but there is absolutely no reason that it should take years of reaching for a goal for certain people to reap the benefits. – Yes, I know, we played for years without rewards, but this goal did not exist for us to even reach for at that time.

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

WvW vets care more about the game mode than the rewards, and by thus we don’t want to WvW to turn an EotM 2.0 where people play it only for the rewards.

Said in other words. Vets want people to play WvW, and get some reward for it so there’s no need to go to PvE to get income. Not people playing WvW to get some shiny skins… You already have PvE for that.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Do you like having fresh new allies and fresh new meat to kill? Do you not realize that the point of the skins is to get the “scavengers” to try out the game mode? If they enter WvW for the rewards, then leave a day or two later due to the rewards being too difficult – that is not a proper WvW experience. I certainly wouldn’t have gotten a feel for WvW (which is now my only game mode) if I only tried it out for a couple of days.

People grinded out ascension in what, a month? Sure, lets not have that type of thing here in WvW, but there is absolutely no reason that it should take years of reaching for a goal for certain people to reap the benefits. – Yes, I know, we played for years without rewards, but this goal did not exist for us to even reach for at that time.

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

This game is nicknamed Fashion Wars 2 for a reason. Expecting all players of a mode to not be skin chasers is unrealistic. Most players are not the type who aren’t affected by low rewards. Most players, even if they say they don’t care about rewards, deep down if the rewards are too lacking, they’ll move on to something more rewarding.

And that is a scary position for a game mode to be in. You need players to convince developers to spend money and time on it, but if all you do is chase players away due to lack of rewards…

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

the point of the skins is to draw “skin scavengers” to wvw. Even though they said they wanted to “reward dedicated players” they should of done this by giving out an exclusive reward which is no longer obtainable after it was released. But instead they released a carrot on a stick to entice players into playing, obviously trying to attract new or returning players.

If people leave after getting skins it just means the game mode is not fun. The skins don’t have anything to do with that. It also never ceases to amaze how wvw players are so uninviting towards new players and they constantly attack new players on any opinion they might have, all while asking for new players to join the game mode.

You know people can be in the game mode as well as the rewards. Both aren’t incompatible.

And again. The reason why people are playing is their own business. Shouldnt be that much of a big deal to anyone.

Also. Nobody is asking for everything to be given out within a month (ascension takes at least 2 seasons btw) but there is a middle ground to be found between that and the current base pip.
Do not believe in people who keep saying new players want insta rewards. This has never been the main complain here. I for once think 350 is way too low of a rank for Warbringer, i have issues with timegated token requiring a lot of work per week, turning the fun of that mode to painful grinding and encouraging idle play rather than active play.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

IMHO, by playing along people they enjoy playing with.

WvW in itself is a reward for the cheer fun it can provide and the diversity of role and challenge it can offer. You want an easy brain dead karma train? You can have that. You want a challenge that is FAR above anything PVP can offer? You can also have that.

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

A carrot? None of those who play this game mode since the beginning ever stopped because there was 0 carrot before. The carrot is merely an added bonus. In fact, it is more a cherry on top of a cake for many of us.

Try the cake. If it taste good enough, the cherry is innevitable. If the cake isn’t to your taste, spare yourself the pain.

Beside, if Anet can stand its ground defending Legendary armor (an equipment tier) being locked behind raids, they sure as hell should stand their ground when what is locked behind a requirement is a mere skin (no impact on QoL or the game stats).

Provide options for legendary armor aquisition first, then we will talk about skin acquisition. Until then, there are zero valid reason to even consider a change without being absolute hypocrits.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

Turk.5460:

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

……I didn’t think I really needed to spell this one out for anyone, but I guess I was wrong.

The rewards are what will get them to actually try the game mode that they may or may not enjoy.

You replied as if I was asking how we are supposed to get people who already play WvW to keep playing WvW. No. I am advocating a way to get people who do not already play WvW to give it a try. What thread are you reading, because it’s certainly not this one.

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

Turk.5460:

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

……I didn’t think I really needed to spell this one out for anyone, but I guess I was wrong.

The rewards are what will get them to actually try the game mode that they may or may not enjoy.

You replied as if I was asking how we are supposed to get people who already play WvW to keep playing WvW. No. I am advocating a way to get people who do not already play WvW to give it a try. What thread are you reading, because it’s certainly not this one.

I had understood your point, but I find it poor. If they need a reward to even try something, there is an inherent problem from my POV.

Too much external motivation is not a good long term solution for any game mode.

More players =/= EoTM.
Also, holy kitten this thread.

~ Kovu

Can you stop judging people for the way they play or the reason they play?

Seriously. Such an hypocrisy is baffling. If you dont care about rewards why do you care so much that others want them. It makes no sense at all. All you’re doing is pushing away potential people who could be hooked up while encouraging half afking from people who will get these rewards no matter the time grind.

Be happy the same behavior wasnt observed in pvp and pvp vets werent requiring everyone to retroactively play the previous seasons before enjoying the rewards of the current season. Would have been funny.

Arguments have been continuously given as to why the current system is punishing/unfair and all you come back to is that booo new players are playing for rewards. Stop it and debate fairly, without prejudice. Learn about how the other modes work with timegates and maybe you’ll finally understand the core issue here.

Yes i play for reward and yes I have fun with that charr guild I found and none of their vet is being half as condescending about their right to anything. I will grind the ranks but I will not stop pointing out the design flaws with locking timegated rewards behind a full job of hours.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The only way you will find out if you enjoy a game mode or not is by trying it. Providing a positive social experience is how one gets hooked into such a community. So, be nice to new players and help them when they ask for help.

Turk.5460:

Right, but what about players who would be interested, but didn’t think they would be interested in it, and never gave it a chance before. How do we get them to give it a chance, and actually spark that interest?

……I didn’t think I really needed to spell this one out for anyone, but I guess I was wrong.

The rewards are what will get them to actually try the game mode that they may or may not enjoy.

You replied as if I was asking how we are supposed to get people who already play WvW to keep playing WvW. No. I am advocating a way to get people who do not already play WvW to give it a try. What thread are you reading, because it’s certainly not this one.

I had understood your point, but I find it poor. If they need a reward to even try something, there is an inherent problem from my POV.

Too much external motivation is not a good long term solution for any game mode.

Ok…so…

Lets say you have never tried peanut butter. You have no interest in trying peanut butter on your own, as it didn’t seem like something you’d like. I offer to pay you 5 dollars to try some peanut butter. You think “ok sure, what is there to lose?” and you happen to like peanut butter, and now you enjoy eating peanut butter often!

According to you, there’s an inherent problem somewhere in this scenario.

Now lets try a different exercise, which is what the current reward system may be providing:

You’ve never tried peanut butter, you have no interest in trying peanut butter on your own, as it didn’t seem like something you’d like. I offer to pay you 5 dollars to eat nothing but peanut butter for every meal for the next week. You decide that it might not be best for you to even try peanut butter, because the means are not worth the reward.

So where is this “inherent” problem you see? Is it with the 5 dollar reward? Is it with me for offering too much money? Too little money? Is it with you, deciding whether or not to try peanut butter? Is it with the peanut butter itself? Is it with the people who already like peanut butter? Please explain, because your posts have been incredibly vague.

Deihnyx.6318:

Can you stop judging people for the way they play or the reason they play?

Seriously. Such an hypocrisy is baffling. If you dont care about rewards why do you care so much that others want them. It makes no sense at all. All you’re doing is pushing away potential people who could be hooked up while encouraging half afking from people who will get these rewards no matter the time grind.

Be happy the same behavior wasnt observed in pvp and pvp vets werent requiring everyone to retroactively play the previous seasons before enjoying the rewards of the current season. Would have been funny.

Arguments have been continuously given as to why the current system is punishing/unfair and all you come back to is that booo new players are playing for rewards. Stop it and debate fairly, without prejudice. Learn about how the other modes work with timegates and maybe you’ll finally understand the core issue here.

Yes i play for reward and yes I have fun with that charr guild I found and none of their vet is being half as condescending about their right to anything. I will grind the ranks but I will not stop pointing out the design flaws with locking timegated rewards behind a full job of hours.

In wvw PLAYERS ARE THE CONTENT, not rewards.

In any PvP game all that matters is the community, everything else is secondary. That’s why sPvP has died, the game mode is flooded with so much pve content that sPvP got full of people that didn’t care about competitiveness and the competitive scene didn’t have place anymore. That’s the reason why wvwers are so harsh over pvers, we want to keep wvw as it is.

The reason why people don’t want pvers in wvw is because they want WvW content: zerg fights, roaming, RvR, pvp scene… not pve. Why are pvers so selfish that they have to force game modes and their communities to cater their desires? Isn’t pve big and vast enough that now competitive game modes have to be turned into your desires?

Seriously, anyone saying they come to WvW for rewards or skins shouldn’t put a foot into it, is doing nothing good for the game mode.

Gaile Gray.6029:

We have had quite a few threads posted about Pips over the last few days. In order to keep things organized, let’s use this single thread to discuss the topic moving forward.

You may have noticed that a few threads were merged a day or so ago. Unfortunately, some of those covered very different aspects of the topic of Pips, and as a result of the merge, a certain amount of confusion has arisen. I apologize for the confusion that the merge caused, and hope that with this one feedback thread, all sorts of comments will make sense in the big picture.

If you’re responding directly to a comment, feel free to use the quote feature to make that clear, or lead your post with a few words about the specific sub-topic you’re discussing.

Thanks for understanding.

Thank you for clarifying why some unrelated pip threads were merged.

Ansau.7326:

Seriously, anyone saying they come to WvW for rewards or skins shouldn’t put a foot into it, is doing nothing good for the game mode.

The only reason I stepped foot into WvW 3 years ago was to complete map exploration for a legendary weapon. Yup, I only tried it out because I wanted a reward. I have barely played anything but WvW since then.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. You say PvE is unwanted and dare to cite RvR? RvR had areas dedicated to PvE that just so happened to be in a place other players could engage you.

Ansau.7326:

Deihnyx.6318:

Can you stop judging people for the way they play or the reason they play?

Seriously. Such an hypocrisy is baffling. If you dont care about rewards why do you care so much that others want them. It makes no sense at all. All you’re doing is pushing away potential people who could be hooked up while encouraging half afking from people who will get these rewards no matter the time grind.

Be happy the same behavior wasnt observed in pvp and pvp vets werent requiring everyone to retroactively play the previous seasons before enjoying the rewards of the current season. Would have been funny.

Arguments have been continuously given as to why the current system is punishing/unfair and all you come back to is that booo new players are playing for rewards. Stop it and debate fairly, without prejudice. Learn about how the other modes work with timegates and maybe you’ll finally understand the core issue here.

Yes i play for reward and yes I have fun with that charr guild I found and none of their vet is being half as condescending about their right to anything. I will grind the ranks but I will not stop pointing out the design flaws with locking timegated rewards behind a full job of hours.

In wvw PLAYERS ARE THE CONTENT, not rewards.

In any PvP game all that matters is the community, everything else is secondary. That’s why sPvP has died, the game mode is flooded with so much pve content that sPvP got full of people that didn’t care about competitiveness and the competitive scene didn’t have place anymore. That’s the reason why wvwers are so harsh over pvers, we want to keep wvw as it is.

The reason why people don’t want pvers in wvw is because they want WvW content: zerg fights, roaming, RvR, pvp scene… not pve. Why are pvers so selfish that they have to force game modes and their communities to cater their desires? Isn’t pve big and vast enough that now competitive game modes have to be turned into your desires?

Seriously, anyone saying they come to WvW for rewards or skins shouldn’t put a foot into it, is doing nothing good for the game mode.

So let me get this straight.
As a person who bought the game, who played a lot of the other modes of this game, I come back to WvW, properly gear up to WvW using that shiny little reward gold I earned from PvE/PvP. I join a guild and go raid with them for hours everyday, and go roaming during downtime.

But so because my initial reason to do it is rewards I bring nothing good to it?

Yeah. Makes it clear who’s causing this mode to die.

Let me know what secret ritual needs to be accomplished to stop being seen as filthy bags.

I just want to know where all these disadvantaged new players were 3-1/2 weeks ago.

But, let’s say 1 million people purchased the game over the last 3-1/2 weeks and chose wvw as their introduction to GW2, a bit odd considering they’d have to level first, but whatever, we need the bodies so come on in.

Look at that, new players can get a legendary backpack at level 350…what’d I get at level 350? Oh yeah stomped more often by increasingly bigger crowds of people while wearing exotic level and below gear in T6 or T7. Man, those new people have it rough.

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I love having new people in game.

But we have seen with past WvW-only loot, people come in, don’t contribute, and leave once they grind it out in as few as a couple days. Then complain that there’s no content.

Remember the uproar about removing crafting tables?

I think the longer it takes to earn something, the more likely you begin to understand the game mode, creating resiliency and affording longterm population. There’s already been several posts by people saying they didn’t realize how much fun it is.

At the end of the day, the resistance by the “vets” stems around not wanting to enable this “because I want it” mentality and instead encourages a measure of investment.

The bottom line is nobody needs these new thing in order to play the game.

HazyDaisy.4107:

I just want to know where all these disadvantaged new players were 3-1/2 weeks ago.

But, let’s say 1 million people purchased the game over the last 3-1/2 weeks and chose wvw as their introduction to GW2, a bit odd considering they’d have to level first, but whatever, we need the bodies so come on in.

Look at that, new players can get a legendary backpack at level 350…what’d I get at level 350? Oh yeah stomped more often by increasingly bigger crowds of people while wearing exotic level and below gear in T6 or T7. Man, those new people have it rough.

This is not constructive nor related to the discussion. Context clues and even more obvious posts will tell you that the term “new player” in this thread is not referring to someone who just got Guild Wars 2 and made a brand new character. It is simply referring to GW2 players who have not tried the WvW game mode.

Jayne.9251:

But we have seen with past WvW-only loot, people come in, don’t contribute, and leave once they grind it out in as few as a couple days. Then complain that there’s no content.

Nobody is asking to lower the reward scale so it can be grinded in a couple of days. People are asking for it to be made a little easier so it can be grinded in a few months instead of years. And if the newbies enjoy it enough over those few months, they’ll continue to join us regularly. There is simply no reason for it to take anyone almost a year or more to complete.

Turk.5460:

HazyDaisy.4107:

I just want to know where all these disadvantaged new players were 3-1/2 weeks ago.

But, let’s say 1 million people purchased the game over the last 3-1/2 weeks and chose wvw as their introduction to GW2, a bit odd considering they’d have to level first, but whatever, we need the bodies so come on in.

Look at that, new players can get a legendary backpack at level 350…what’d I get at level 350? Oh yeah stomped more often by increasingly bigger crowds of people while wearing exotic level and below gear in T6 or T7. Man, those new people have it rough.

This is not constructive nor related to the discussion. Context clues and even more obvious posts will tell you that the term “new player” in this thread is not referring to someone who just got Guild Wars 2 and made a brand new character. It is simply referring to GW2 players who have not tried the WvW game mode.

Jayne.9251:

But we have seen with past WvW-only loot, people come in, don’t contribute, and leave once they grind it out in as few as a couple days. Then complain that there’s no content.

Nobody is asking to lower the reward scale so it can be grinded in a couple of days. People are asking for it to be made a little easier so it can be grinded in a few months instead of years. And if the newbies enjoy it enough over those few months, they’ll continue to join us regularly. There is simply no reason for it to take anyone almost a year or more to complete.

Do you need the new skin to play the game?

HazyDaisy.4107:

I just want to know where all these disadvantaged new players were 3-1/2 weeks ago.

But, let’s say 1 million people purchased the game over the last 3-1/2 weeks and chose wvw as their introduction to GW2, a bit odd considering they’d have to level first, but whatever, we need the bodies so come on in.

Look at that, new players can get a legendary backpack at level 350…what’d I get at level 350? Oh yeah stomped more often by increasingly bigger crowds of people while wearing exotic level and below gear in T6 or T7. Man, those new people have it rough.

Read previous post about the issue with timegating and comparison with other modes. Not gonna bother repeating.
Short answer: the rank is not the issue, it could be higher for all I care.

It’s a merged thread because there’s so many complaints about a 3-1/2 week old system. I’m not going to read the previous posts, because I wasnt talking to only 1 of the previous posters in paricular.

Whatever anyone doesn’t like about the system for whatever reason, understand some people didn’t get anything whill leveling wvw, not even the joy of waiting a couple of weeks for the possibility of something.

HazyDaisy.4107:

It’s a merged thread because there’s so many complaints about a 3-1/2 week old system. I’m not going to read the previous posts, because I wasnt talking to only 1 of the previous posters in paricular.

Whatever anyone doesn’t like about the system for whatever reason, understand some people didn’t get anything whill leveling wvw, not even the joy of waiting a couple of weeks for the possibility of something.

I thought wvwers don’t care about rewards. I thought it was all about the joy of playing wvw. Why do they care what happens with the rewards?

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I almost solely wvw and prolly classed as a vet, the new shinies are nice to have the option of going for but I seriously haven’t really looked at them or how you get them. I’m just having fun playing wvw as usual, all the while getting pips and welcoming/trying to help the new people to get onto teamspeak, get decent builds and listen to the commander.

What I do object to is the sense of entitlement that I see in alot of posts complaining about the disadvantage to new players and “grind”…if you consider it a grind well don’t do it. If you really want the skins, accept and embrace the mode and what is required, just do it instead of coming to forum and complaining about how things are. You might actually be surprised how fast things go if you just play.

Shazmataz.1423:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I almost solely wvw and prolly classed as a vet, the new shinies are nice to have the option of going for but I seriously haven’t really looked at them or how you get them. I’m just having fun playing wvw as usual, all the while getting pips and welcoming/trying to help the new people to get onto teamspeak, get decent builds and listen to the commander.

What I do object to is the sense of entitlement that I see in alot of posts complaining about the disadvantage to new players and “grind”…if you consider it a grind well don’t do it. If you really want the skins, accept and embrace the mode and what is required, just do it instead of coming to forum and complaining about how things are. You might actually be surprised how fast things go if you just play.

Sense of entitlement: that would be from the haves keeping the have nots from getting anything. Kind of hard to be entitled when you don’t get the rewards. But obstruction from people who already have said rewards… that’s entitlement.

HazyDaisy.4107:

It’s a merged thread because there’s so many complaints about a 3-1/2 week old system. I’m not going to read the previous posts, because I wasnt talking to only 1 of the previous posters in paricular.

Whatever anyone doesn’t like about the system for whatever reason, understand some people didn’t get anything whill leveling wvw, not even the joy of waiting a couple of weeks for the possibility of something.

Sorry I couldn’t help myself, I laughed at the irony of your post HazyDaisy cos for years wvw-ers have actually got very little from playing and leveling wvw. We have waited years for the possibility of “something” and now all the new people are complaining when the rewards are the best they have ever been.

“Sense of entitlement: that would be from the haves keeping the have nots from getting anything. Kind of hard to be entitled when you don’t get the rewards. But obstruction from people who already have said rewards… that’s entitlement.”

And that goes for you too Jumpin Lummix…and yes my reward is I HAVE fun and you HAVE NOT got fun. But only you can change that

Shazmataz.1423:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I almost solely wvw and prolly classed as a vet, the new shinies are nice to have the option of going for but I seriously haven’t really looked at them or how you get them. I’m just having fun playing wvw as usual, all the while getting pips and welcoming/trying to help the new people to get onto teamspeak, get decent builds and listen to the commander.

What I do object to is the sense of entitlement that I see in alot of posts complaining about the disadvantage to new players and “grind”…if you consider it a grind well don’t do it. If you really want the skins, accept and embrace the mode and what is required, just do it instead of coming to forum and complaining about how things are. You might actually be surprised how fast things go if you just play.

I, too, only play WvW. Judging by the way you held yourself in your post, I’m probably much more of a WvW veteran than you are. I’m getting my rewards, and its fairly easy for me to do so. I like that I get a bonus over the people who didn’t put so much time into WvW previously. But that does not justify the length these newcomers have to go through to see even a speckle of the reward through a telescope. The entitlement is with the other WvW mains who don’t want to see other people happy, and they’re driving away the first good thing to happen in WvW in a very long time.

And to anyone who is reading this, holy crap stop using “I don’t want PvE’ers to grind out a reward then leave.” NOBODY has asked for the rewards to be anything remotely as easy as that. We still want the newcomers to have to commit. We just don’t think over a year is reasonable.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

HazyDaisy.4107:

It’s a merged thread because there’s so many complaints about a 3-1/2 week old system. I’m not going to read the previous posts, because I wasnt talking to only 1 of the previous posters in paricular.

Whatever anyone doesn’t like about the system for whatever reason, understand some people didn’t get anything whill leveling wvw, not even the joy of waiting a couple of weeks for the possibility of something.

I thought wvwers don’t care about rewards. I thought it was all about the joy of playing wvw. Why do they care what happens with the rewards?

It’s not that we don’t care about rewards! It’s just that was pointless for YEARS to hope we would get them. The closest thing you could hope to acquire as a ‘reward’ was maybe an ascended chest on rank up. Or maybe a ring. Other than that… crickets

Turk.5460:

Shazmataz.1423:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I almost solely wvw and prolly classed as a vet, the new shinies are nice to have the option of going for but I seriously haven’t really looked at them or how you get them. I’m just having fun playing wvw as usual, all the while getting pips and welcoming/trying to help the new people to get onto teamspeak, get decent builds and listen to the commander.

What I do object to is the sense of entitlement that I see in alot of posts complaining about the disadvantage to new players and “grind”…if you consider it a grind well don’t do it. If you really want the skins, accept and embrace the mode and what is required, just do it instead of coming to forum and complaining about how things are. You might actually be surprised how fast things go if you just play.

I, too, only play WvW. Judging by the way you held yourself in your post, I’m probably much more of a WvW veteran than you are. I’m getting my rewards, and its fairly easy for me to do so. I like that I get a bonus over the people who didn’t put so much time into WvW previously. But that does not justify the length these newcomers have to go through to see even a speckle of the reward through a telescope. The entitlement is with the other WvW mains who don’t want to see other people happy, and they’re driving away the first good thing to happen in WvW in a very long time.

And to anyone who is reading this, holy crap stop using “I don’t want PvE’ers to grind out a reward then leave.” NOBODY has asked for the rewards to be anything remotely as easy as that. We still want the newcomers to have to commit. We just don’t think over a year is reasonable.

I think Anet very well knew what they were doing to try to get pve players to “commit” to wvw and handing out easy rewards isn’t it.

Turk, the “new” people who want their reward are playing already, not complaining and they are joining in just fine. Props to them. There are a number running regularly with our guild and they are having fun.
I am one of the few who actively helps new comers…well those willing to be helped anyway. I have had so many say they didn’t realise how much fun wvw was until now. So I’m doing my bit for wvw so not quite sure what you are giving me a serve for…