Guild Wars 2

1. To be eligible for the final reward, the player has to speak to an npc to register for a server.

2. If the player transfers, he loses his registration and cannot register again for the rest of the season.

3. The player must meet some form of minimum activity requirement or lose his registration for that season. (we can discuss what constitutes activity worthy of receiving the reward i guess.)

I think this is probably the ideal system that anet should implement. I don’t think there’s many ways to abuse this.

As a final point, if we want to balance the servers out more, then an additional feature:
4. All servers will receive rewards at the end of the season, proportional to their final rank. However, the rewards are divided evenly between registered players. A player on a low population server that comes 4th may get a much larger prize than someone on a high pop server that comes first. Servers that achieve success in spite of their low registered population will be the most rewarding, even if they don’t win.
Registered number of players is published for each server.

Oh it’s gets better, so this “league” is actually a glorified achievement. I can’t wait to see what lovely objectives there will be on the checklist. Kill the grub 100 times, kill the centaurs 100 times etc etc.

Would this mean accordingly, that if a player prior to the start of the league is picking the most probable winner, transferring there for one week, then transferring back to his home server, would secure himself “gold” (1st place) rewards for a season of multiple weeks? If so, please find a solution for that, especially since EU consists of several national servers.

Example:

Day 1 – every french is transferring to Vizunah (the winner of gold league, no doubt about that, they did it just for the pride, now there`s even more incentive…), securing himself top tier rewards, then switching back would mean almost no harm/punishment for him, but corrupting the system heavily.

I`d appreciate reply on this, thanks in advance and best regards.

Well let’s hope this system doesn just reward the heavily populated servers because otherwise you may see everyone getting that achievement.

Borlis pass represent!

Will be the only sizeable amount of achievement points I can get at them moment since the WvW ones give hardly any ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Srsly if you add PvE components to this WvW meta achievement it will be a joke.

DevonCarver.5370:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Oh it’s gets better, so this “league” is actually a glorified achievement. I can’t wait to see what lovely objectives there will be on the checklist. Kill the grub 100 times, kill the centaurs 100 times etc etc.

We’ve actually just recently added the tech to add an achievement for complaining on the forums.

DevonCarver.5370:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Oh it’s gets better, so this “league” is actually a glorified achievement. I can’t wait to see what lovely objectives there will be on the checklist. Kill the grub 100 times, kill the centaurs 100 times etc etc.

We’ve actually just recently added the tech to add an achievement for complaining on the forums.

I’d better start then… Um… let’s see. QQ I don’t want to have to complain on the forums for achievement points. I’m an achievement point hunter but ignore spvp dailies and monthlies so I throw away roughly 160 points every month. Anet made it so I can’t get the 5 achievement points for complaining on the forums because uh… I don’t own a keyboard? Anet plz nerf!

How’d I do?

Rieselle.5079:

As a final point, if we want to balance the servers out more, then an additional feature:
4. All servers will receive rewards at the end of the season, proportional to their final rank. However, the rewards are divided evenly between registered players. A player on a low population server that comes 4th may get a much larger prize than someone on a high pop server that comes first. Servers that achieve success in spite of their low registered population will be the most rewarding, even if they don’t win.
Registered number of players is published for each server.

This is actually a good idea, Devon, would this be possible to implement at all?

Moon.6371:

Would this mean accordingly, that if a player prior to the start of the league is picking the most probable winner, transferring there for one week, then transferring back to his home server, would secure himself “gold” (1st place) rewards for a season of multiple weeks? If so, please find a solution for that, especially since EU consists of several national servers.

Example:

Day 1 – every french is transferring to Vizunah (the winner of gold league, no doubt about that, they did it just for the pride, now there`s even more incentive…), securing himself top tier rewards, then switching back would mean almost no harm/punishment for him, but corrupting the system heavily.

I`d appreciate reply on this, thanks in advance and best regards.

This is actually a very good point….What is to stop people from doing this?

DevonCarver.5370:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Will be the only sizeable amount of achievement points I can get at them moment since the WvW ones give hardly any ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Srsly if you add PvE components to this WvW meta achievement it will be a joke.

I didn’t say PvE components, I said that they will function like the Living World achievements. They will be WvW specific and much like the achievements you see already, except actually reachable in 7 weeks. As to the total number of points, it will be hundreds, nothing like the achievements currently in place.

This is quite literally the only thing that has been mentioned so far about the seasons idea that sounds good. Although a year late, wvw mighy finally be getting some parity with pve achievements wise.

I`m quite sad the troll posts get immediate reply, while the more serious concern is getting ignored. Devon, please answer me.

Devon, will Gold league players receive better achievements points/final rewards over silver/bronze league winners?
Community concern is that incentives will be high enough to draw players to transfer up the tiers, killing even more low tier servers, over filling silver tiers with players and so forth for gold. Can you comment on any plans to address community size issues?

Moon.6371:

I`m quite sad the troll posts get immediate reply, while the more serious concern is getting ignored. Devon, please answer me.

Your idea of transferring one week to a ‘most likely to win’ server before exchanging back to your original server is a good thing for anet. Why? Those steep transfer fees/profits.

So if you come last in your league (because you have the lowest wvw population) that means you won’t get the rewards that the server who wins the league (one with the highest pop and coverage) gets?

Kimhyuna.1035:

Moon.6371:

I`m quite sad the troll posts get immediate reply, while the more serious concern is getting ignored. Devon, please answer me.

Your idea of transferring one week to a ‘most likely to win’ server before exchanging back to your original server is a good thing for anet. Why? Those steep transfer fees/profits.

I was under the serious impression Anet is trying to step up their game and doing something for one of their most passionate customer cluster. Bracketing the matchups again is a good thing, I honestly hope they are working on protecting us from such abuse with making their system bulletproof.

But my point is the only remaining question that`s being ignored, one could think, they don`t care…

DevonCarver.5370:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Oh it’s gets better, so this “league” is actually a glorified achievement. I can’t wait to see what lovely objectives there will be on the checklist. Kill the grub 100 times, kill the centaurs 100 times etc etc.

We’ve actually just recently added the tech to add an achievement for complaining on the forums.

Where’s my Troll Achievement?

DevonCarver.5370:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Will be the only sizeable amount of achievement points I can get at them moment since the WvW ones give hardly any ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Srsly if you add PvE components to this WvW meta achievement it will be a joke.

I didn’t say PvE components, I said that they will function like the Living World achievements. They will be WvW specific and much like the achievements you see already, except actually reachable in 7 weeks. As to the total number of points, it will be hundreds, nothing like the achievements currently in place.

This actually sounds really fun. It will be nice to actually earn some achievement points in WvW doing regular WvW activities.

DevonCarver.5370:

Oren.1736:

Devon, will Gold league players receive better achievements points/final rewards over silver/bronze league winners?

The achievements and achievement points will be exactly the same across the leagues and there will be few, if any, rewards that are different across the leagues. The dolyak stomp is the clearest example. The winners of each league will get a finisher specific to that league. From Gold to Bronze. The rest of the rewards will be more about how you performed in your league, than which league you were in.

Moon i believe this answer in spirit represents how Anet planned out this league system, reward loot will be distinct, but probably not much of a deal for this to be a huge issue. You might end up seeing gold players using this cheese strategy or just moving in advanced back and forth to get a bronze finisher.
Take in mind i guess there are certain questions a rep can and cannot answer – such as sometimes the outcomes of schemes as you suggest, or the second half of my question, which apparently anet thinks is an issue is more up to us to deal with, my speculation hough,

DevonCarver.5370:

Oren.1736:

Community concern is that incentives will be high enough to draw players to transfer up the tiers, killing even more low tier servers, over filling silver tiers with players and so forth for gold. Can you comment on any plans to address community size issues?

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

Why, it’s not our fault our server has less wvw population than the powerhouses of our ‘league’… Why should we be forced to abandon our servers to stack others…

WAIT. Devons actually telling you all the issues you had with leagues will NOT be a problem and he just CONFIRMED we will be getting more achievement points in WvW and you guys still complain… Honestly wtf guys. Im happy, how can you not be. Progress is finally being made and deadlines are being met…

Banzie.5248:

WAIT. Devons actually telling you all the issues you had with leagues will NOT be a problem and he just CONFIRMED we will be getting more achievement points in WvW and you guys still complain… Honestly wtf guys. Im happy, how can you not be. Progress is finally being made and deadlines are being met…

Of course you would say that, you are on IoJ, and you won’t end up at the bottom of the gold league having to face tier one. That in itself isn’t fun but not only that bottom of gold league is going to get shafted in the rewards department as well…

Oren.1736:

DevonCarver.5370:

Oren.1736:

Devon, will Gold league players receive better achievements points/final rewards over silver/bronze league winners?

The achievements and achievement points will be exactly the same across the leagues and there will be few, if any, rewards that are different across the leagues. The dolyak stomp is the clearest example. The winners of each league will get a finisher specific to that league. From Gold to Bronze. The rest of the rewards will be more about how you performed in your league, than which league you were in.

Moon i believe this answer in spirit represents how Anet planned out this league system, reward loot will be distinct, but probably not much of a deal for this to be a huge issue. You might end up seeing gold players using this cheese strategy or just moving in advanced back and forth to get a bronze finisher.
Take in mind i guess there are certain questions a rep can and cannot answer – such as sometimes the outcomes of schemes as you suggest, or the second half of my question, which apparently anet thinks is an issue is more up to us to deal with, my speculation hough,

Problem is, I was talking about switching to the most probable winner WITHIN your league, Devon was just explaining transleague issues. Furthermore, he stated, the gold league 6th finisher would receive far less rewards, than silver league 2nd. This is making the issue I was talking about far more concerning, because it implicates, that gold league 6th or 8th is far less rewarded than gold league 1st. Thus, incentivizing abuse…

Lets say, I´m on Jade Sea and would probably hover around place 5-8, what is stopping me from transferring to Vizunah for the league`s first week, securing top rewards for a 7 week long league, then tranferring back to Jade Sea and rejoin my normal wvw scene?

Still waiting for reply…

Why don’t you implement an over-arcing loyalty achievement/reward structure.

Add achievements/titles, etc. for being loyal to your server. After two seasons you get a certain title, etc.

Moon.6371:

Lets say, I´m on Jade Sea and would probably hover around place 5-8, what is stopping me from transferring to Vizunah for the league`s first week, securing top rewards for a 7 week long league, then tranferring back to Jade Sea and rejoin my normal wvw scene?

Still waiting for reply…

Well i am assuming it’s not going to be worth the time you are stuck in other server+ the big amount of gold it would cost you to transfer back and forth from the servers.

When people asked for Anet to monitise wvw I don’t think

DevonCarver.5370:

In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th.

is what they had in mind :/

All it will mean is those wanting to flee will just leave the lower end of each ‘league’ the week before the system kicks in and will (in the case of NA) stack tier 1 and tier 5…

I hope you take into consideration adding achievements that encourage zergs to disperse. Lets not have another WvExp situation.

Although, all in all, I’m not enthusiastic about this new system. I fail to understand the concept of “competition” that you hope to instill, when the playing field is inherently unbalanced. Numbers win everything. How is that a fair competition?

@ Oren:

Being one week stuck is not stopping anyone from doing the next best PvE grind for compensation of travel cost until the transer timer is reset. People have gold en masse since the biweekly living story cycle got introduced. I guess for most it`s just a trade off between gold versus achievement points (assuming this will be one of the major reward benefits of making 1st within your league), finisher and other, unknown benefits.

How many people did spend 800 gems each for trading post permanent finishers? I know a lot. This abuse wouldn`t be far more expensive…

DevonCarver.5370:

Oren.1736:

Community concern is that incentives will be high enough to draw players to transfer up the tiers, killing even more low tier servers, over filling silver tiers with players and so forth for gold. Can you comment on any plans to address community size issues?

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

Devon, just so I can get this straight. So you’re saying that the rewards you gain are not based on how well your server does as a whole, but rather how well the player does? So first you put the servers into 2 leagues, bronze and gold. Each of these has a specific default reward that doesnt’ change on how well the server does. Then you have players complete an meta achievement to claim the rewards. Then the players get more rewards based on how well they do personally, rather than how well their server does? Like if I were to get 300 kills, 30 captures, and lets say 10 doyak kills in the bronze league, then have someone in the gold league get 100 kills, 10 captures, and 10 doyak kills, he would only have a better reward for being in a gold league, but I will have a better overall reward?

What do I have to do in order to get my question concerning obvious transfer abuse answered?

Will there be anything implemented (such as weighted league points, server (il-)loyalty debuffs, intraleague server locks or similar) that prevents people flooding the probable winner of the league during the first week, then transfering back to the home server (within the same league) and benefitting from abuse?

DevonCarver.5370:

Walabone.6713:

I hope you take into consideration adding achievements that encourage zergs to disperse. Lets not have another WvExp situation.

Although, all in all, I’m not enthusiastic about this new system. I fail to understand the concept of “competition” that you hope to instill, when the playing field is inherently unbalanced. Numbers win everything. How is that a fair competition?

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”. There are servers with more people, there are servers with better organizations and that will always be the case. This competition will be about showing how your world can do over a defined period of time, against a variety of opponents. SPvP is the part of our game that aims for a completely level playing field. WvW would never be able to match that goal.

Thank you for saying this. I see so many people complaining about unbalanced servers and matchups. WvW is inherently unbalanced, nothing can really be done to change this, it’s the nature of the game. If you want perfectly balanced equal gameplay sPvP is waiting for you.

DevonCarver.5370:

Walabone.6713:

I hope you take into consideration adding achievements that encourage zergs to disperse. Lets not have another WvExp situation.

Although, all in all, I’m not enthusiastic about this new system. I fail to understand the concept of “competition” that you hope to instill, when the playing field is inherently unbalanced. Numbers win everything. How is that a fair competition?

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”. There are servers with more people, there are servers with better organizations and that will always be the case. This competition will be about showing how your world can do over a defined period of time, against a variety of opponents. SPvP is the part of our game that aims for a completely level playing field. WvW would never be able to match that goal.

Devon, what is the point of having this League if you are not striving to make it fair?

Do you honestly think that it will be fun for any of the players if the population and coverage dis-balance is the way it is currently? I think the problem is that you believe thakittens fun to play a mismatched match-up. Its not.

I do however thank you for actually coming forward and saying this, as it saves a lot of time waiting for improvements that don’t have a chance of being implemented.

Best Regards

Thank you, Devon.

That`s all I wanted to hear. I trust you will find a proper barrier to make sure, not everybody in EU gold league becomes Vizunian for a week.

Thanks again and best regards.

Moon.6371:

What do I have to do in order to get my question concerning obvious transfer abuse answered?

Will there be anything implemented (such as weighted league points, server (il-)loyalty debuffs, intraleague server locks or similar) that prevents people flooding the probable winner of the league during the first week, then transfering back to the home server (within the same league) and benefitting from abuse?

I think the ~100G in total transfer fees might be a deterrent to many…. This might not be as large of an issue as you make it out to be.

@ Ayusaki:

Well, as I said before, people paid 800 gems for a single finisher, I know a lot who bought all of them for 2,3k gems total. Considering the amount of these finishers I see in wvw, I`d guess, it`s not an exception.

The transfer back and forth will cost less than that and give you most probably not only a somewhat exclusive finisher, but title, achievement points and more as well. I know people who own close to 100k gold and would gladly pay 100g just for a few achievement points, especially since these translate to other rewards (account achievement progression) since a few patches.

That being said, I`m not sure about the size of the problem but possible abuse should be prevented if recognized early enough, right?

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

So basically the servers on the lower end of their league get punished for not having done worse which would have got them on #1-2 in the lower league? If that is true, you will create an incentive for players to do worse to get better rewards.
Originally wanted to write more about this, but I guess it would not have been constructive. Just let me tell you that I am very disappointed with this design decision. We already know which servers do best point-wise. This system seems to favor 3 servers over 4 others, not based on their performance, but on their current overall rank. (1-3 good , 4-7 bad , 8-10 good , 11-14 bad and so on).

I just hope the income of all the transfers will benefit the wvw server infrastructure.

I love the addition of some reasonably attainable achievement points to wvw via this league meta. I think it is also great that rewards will be tied to completion of it, rather than everyone on the server getting the reward as the Masively article implied. I’m hoping these achievements will be along the line of capture 100 sentry points, slay 150 enemy dolyaks, capture 50 supply camps, capture 25 towers, etc. Achievements like that will be easy for regular wvw players to get and not so overwhelming that newcomer PVE player won’t have a shot at them over the course of 7 weeks.

One thing I’m still interested in is how the scoring will work. Will it work similar to the rating system where say the number 13 U.S. server has to beat the number 24 U.S. server by something like 200k points just to break even? Or will it be something more like a victrory in each weekly match-up awards 3 points, second place 2 and third 1 and the server with the most points at the end of 7 weeks wins?

One thing I don’t love about the League concept is it means more weeks spent playing servers with wildly different server populations, even more so than now. I personally have the most fun when playing servers with similar populations. When we go up against servers with double or even triple the number of people we have, it’s completely demoralizing and I don’t even want to log in because it’s just a fight to try to hold onto a single keep and a couple towers. Similarly, when we face low-pop servers, it’s boring. This system insures No 24 is going to have to face No 13, 14, 15, etc. at least once each in this 7 week period and that match-up would never occur today.

Devon sorry but that’s dream world.

SPVP is your goal but it will never be what you want it too be.

there is still many WvW guilds here that want to play organised hardcore WvW and GvG’s.
that should be your focus now.
and your saying spvp is much greater than WvW that’s wrong.
SPVP is pretty much dying lol.

there is many that want to play team games 20v20 25v25 not these small spvp fights 5v5.

Devon can we PLEASE have a finisher called PUGSTOMPA for ppl who perform well above expected outcomes????

DevonCarver.5370:

Moon.6371:

What do I have to do in order to get my question concerning obvious transfer abuse answered?

Will there be anything implemented (such as weighted league points, server (il-)loyalty debuffs, intraleague server locks or similar) that prevents people flooding the probable winner of the league during the first week, then transfering back to the home server (within the same league) and benefitting from abuse?

When I have an answer to give you, I will give it. That’s just the way it goes.

this is what i most want to hear about, im glad you are considering it. the potential to ruin the system is easily accessible without drastic changes.

Jinks.2057:

Devon can we PLEASE have a finisher called PUGSTOMPA for ppl who perform well above expected outcomes????

Could just be a pile of skeletons that fall down from the sky on your foe and pile up to represent the masses slain.

And a zerg slayer finisher which drops an ac on the enemies head.

Rieselle.5079:

4. All servers will receive rewards at the end of the season, proportional to their final rank. However, the rewards are divided evenly between registered players. A player on a low population server that comes 4th may get a much larger prize than someone on a high pop server that comes first. Servers that achieve success in spite of their low registered population will be the most rewarding, even if they don’t win.
Registered number of players is published for each server.

I like this a lot. CD is not as small as some of the others, but we aren’t big. The server match up for us has so far been nothing short of completely broken. We kept facing zerg servers like TC FA where we get rolled 5 to 1 at off peak, 20 to 1 at peak. We can sort of scrape by with 5 to 1 odds, but at a cost and effort entirely disproportionate to what our enemies are putting out, what with their auto-attacking up-leveled tide of the ocean.

We get penalized everyday of the week and you know what’s most discouraging? It’s when your outnumbered buff dropped out momentarily at the moment you die. Whatever causes that it’s sickening.

Anyway. I think splitting rewards among participants should be implemented in WvW. ALL of WvW.

Just thinking here. The issue you are going to see with transfers will not be people moving up to a Gold tier server but people jumping to the top server in their tier to assure a first place win. Inter-league transfers will be the killer. For example using the bottom 6 servers now as one NA league:

SF
GoM
ET
FC
DR
AR

How will it help the lower ranked servers if large groups from those servers decide to jump to Sorrow’s Furnace prior to the start of a season? If that happens the lowest place server in that league will just get stomped while SF will be guaranteed a first place finish. They will not be able to hold onto a camp much less any major objective. We already see that when a server is up against another 4 or 5 steps up in the tiers.

Then just prior to the start of the next season people will hedge their bets and again transfer to the predicted top server in their league. It is easy to go to sites such as mos millenium or gw2score to find out the predicted rankings.

How could that even be regulated? How can you define participation? Is logging in to do a daily sentry slayer achievement and then running off to 1spam a dragon wvw participation? Is using wvw as a means to get back to lions arch without paying waypoint costs wvw participation? Is jumping on your borderlands to get quick access to a craftingstation/bank/trading post wvw participation? Or how about karma training all the pve events?

It seems like it would be far to difficult to regulate or even calculate… If I am throwing gold into upgrading our keeps I don’t want ‘mr wvw for daily achievement’ to get the same rewards as me AND then go on to farm 10-20x the amount of gold us true wvw’s can make…

Sure wvw is fun, but I want cool shineys too…