Guild Wars 2

The only reason wvwers do not want it lowered, is because they are being selfish and they know that they now have something that most players cant get by any reasonable means (which is basically selfishness, and a disregard for gw2 as a whole). Wvwers call anyone who advocates that they want the rank req lowered on t3 armor as being “entitled.” Yet they are the ones who are acting truly entitled, because they were fortunate enough to have their activities tracked via wxp when so many other game modes in gw2 don’t track various activities with similar a system to wxp (just wvw’s).

I wonder how spvpers feel since there ranks stopped being tracked at r80 and some people had that within 3-6 months of the game launching. (guess they get nothing since spvp rank doesn’t go to r10k). If they release armor gated behind spvp rank 80, it would be quite easy for a new player to get r80 (the cap) vs r2000 in wvw. – Pve also doesn’t even have a ranking system like this of any kind. The closest thing is masteries and that’s hardly comparable to wxp or spvp rank, its also much less time consuming.

they think wxp = prestige/commitment, which is only partly true especially considering eotm’s existence/previous exploits, and the fact that k-train is by far the most efficient way to rank up (not zerg vs zerg, not defending, not scouting, not roaming, not havoc, not upgrading, though they do add to wxp to an extent). In addition to this wxp wasn’t tracked for the entire first year of the game, a time in which i spent countless hours and none of that was tracked at all.

This is why r2000 is unreasonable compared to all other game modes and was a design decision which needs to be re-evaluated.

1) Why not give WvW:ers something that lets them show off their ACTUAL rank range instead of just “I’m over 2k!”? Badge, Title, something displayable inWvW and non WvW areas..?
2) The average joe still needs to spend 750 HOURS doing WvW to be able to buy this armor set, just due to the TICKETS, so stop using the Rank requirement as some sort of “makes the shiny-hunters run away” argument. If you’re not already deterred by those hours you’re not going to be deterred by the rank requirement. 99 weeks of grinding if you want all the shinies.. Will you be rank 2000 by then? Probably, but that isn’t the point;
3) Rank requirement should go flying out the window since it’s an unfair “advantage”, which does not exist anywhere else in the game. It’s simply “rewarding past effort” and giving some people an unfair advantage over others. That’s why it’s bad. If it was a new rank, that everyone had to get, it would be fine (like the tickets), but it’s not.
4) Vets are already rewarded by extra pips.. Again, where in the game did something else get added in that rewarded past effort this much? Nowhere.

Najten.2418:

1) Why not give WvW:ers something that lets them show off their ACTUAL rank range instead of just “I’m over 2k!”? Badge, Title, something displayable inWvW and non WvW areas..?

Because they effectively mean the same thing. But for some reason turning it into a skin somehow makes it something else.

They’ve stated clearly that it was supposed to be for a “very high” WvW rank. Thus, having the armor = a “very high” (according to their standards) rank.

This reward only has value to people that have spent a lot of time in WvW. Spending hundreds of hours to receive a piece of ascended armor and a few skins is not cost or time effective. That should be blatantly obvious.

2) The average joe still needs to spend 750 HOURS doing WvW to be able to buy this armor set, just due to the TICKETS, so stop using the Rank requirement as some sort of “makes the shiny-hunters run away” argument. If you’re not already deterred by those hours you’re not going to be deterred by the rank requirement. 99 weeks of grinding if

The average joe would have to do all that…. assuming they somehow cared about an optional skin in an optional game mode.

3) Rank requirement should go flying out the window since it’s an unfair “advantage”, which does not exist anywhere else in the game. It’s simply “rewarding past effort” and giving some people an unfair advantage over others. That’s why it’s bad. If it was a new rank, that everyone had to get, it would be fine (like the tickets), but it’s not.

This is an MMO, not an RTS or Moba. You carry things from past efforts. It’s not like people didn’t have a choice to play WvW previously.

Calling it unfair “advantage” makes the assumption that people did nothing to earn it. That anet somehow favored this style of play. That’s like saying being level 80 is an unfair advantage. New players also have to pay for Living Story now, and a lot of gem store items are not avaiable anymore. You know, actual content. Things that actually affect your everyday gameplay.

Being denied from a map, or not being able to acquire good gear. These are actual things that mean real impacts to the game. Do you have a star of gratitude? Are you gonna destroy it out of a sense of fairness, because it is an unfair advantage since people may have to wait up to an entire year regardless of effort to get it? Have a Watchwork Pick? Better destroy that too. Because it is, objectively speaking, unfair. They’re also, objectively speaking, more able to impact gameplay globally than armor skins.

There are also achievements that are unattainable. This is compensated by an enhanced reward system such as better daily rewards and login rewards that many veterans had to do without for a long time.

Considering the access to guild wvw boosts and celebration boosters that were not available in the past, it’s easier to earn WvW rank for new players starting out. This point is moot

Nicely said Archon.

Najten.2418:

1) Why not give WvW:ers something that lets them show off their ACTUAL rank range instead of just “I’m over 2k!”? Badge, Title, something displayable inWvW and non WvW areas..?

What precisely do you propose?
Titles? Nobody cares.
Account badge? Not many people care.
Armor is actually noticeable.
It’s not even unique armor. It’s a variant skin.

Najten.2418:

2) The average joe still needs to spend 750 HOURS doing WvW to be able to buy this armor set, just due to the TICKETS, so stop using the Rank requirement as some sort of “makes the shiny-hunters run away” argument. If you’re not already deterred by those hours you’re not going to be deterred by the rank requirement. 99 weeks of grinding if you want all the shinies.. Will you be rank 2000 by then?Probably, but that isn’t the point;

It’s actually more like 130 weeks worth of clearing Diamond box every week.

Najten.2418:

3) Rank requirement should go flying out the window since it’s an unfair “advantage”, which does not exist anywhere else in the game. It’s simply “rewarding past effort” and giving some people an unfair advantage over others. That’s why it’s bad. If it was a new rank, that everyone had to get, it would be fine (like the tickets), but it’s not.

Magic Find, Gold Find, Karma Find, XP Find from daily AP are literally rewarding past effort. Opening your monthly +goldfind bonus is rewarding past effort. Having salvaged a lot of equipment and pushed up your magic find is rewarding past effort. Home instance nodes are investments & rewarding past effort.

Najten.2418:

4) Vets are already rewarded by extra pips.. Again, where in the game did something else get added in that rewarded past effort this much? Nowhere.

AP grinders got massive benefits out of LS1, earning elements that can never be earnt again. You can at least grind up WvW levels to try to catch up. You cannot catch up with an LS1 player who got all achievements.

You can’t compare it to AP though, since all people started with 0 buffs from AP when they were introduced and all had to grind their way to their rewards.
As I said, it’s not a problem that there’s a grind, so if everyone started with 0 WvW Rank and the armor was the 2k reward, fine. But that’s not the case.

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the access to guild wvw boosts and celebration boosters that were not available in the past, it’s easier to earn WvW rank for new players starting out. This point is moot

Sure. A new account.. Assuming you get into a guild with the WvW booster.. Lvl 80 Booster gives you 1 Celebration Booster. Day 19 of logins gives you another.. so on day 20 you get to enjoy a grand total of 3 hours of 110% WvW XP. Then what? Back to 10% bonus for 30 days until you get another 1.5 hours?

Najten.2418:

You can’t compare it to AP though, since all people started with 0 buffs from AP when they were introduced and all had to grind their way to their rewards.

That’s not true, please check your facts. AP bonuses were introduced just under a year after launch, when you could earn AP prior to that.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_rewards

Achievement rewards were introduced in the Bazaar of the Four Winds release, retroactively rewarding players for already earned achievement points.

Allright, I concede, I remember getting some Reward Chests there for a few days.

SWI.4127:

With that said, I have found the majority of WvW players to be pretty welcoming (more than I expected). I know prestige items are cool, just try to keep some perspective here. Some people are a bit overly defensive about the mode to the detriment of the game.

I’m glad that’s what you’ve found, reading some of the comments in this forum you can start to think that the inclusive game mode I fell in love with is dying and being replaced by, heh, “overly defensive” people.

draxynnic.3719:

What could make for a good compromise is if, instead of tying all the tickets for a tier to the big box at the end, it was spread out more. So the wooden tier could have two tickets per sub-box and then four in the final box, and the bronze tier could have three per sub-box and six in the final, and so on. That way, somebody who, for whatever reason, only has a limited time to spend in a given week can at least make some progress, even if it is going to take a long time to get anywhere at 2-6 tickets a week.

This idea I fully support.

Jaysian.8135:

Jayne.9251:

CutesySylveon.8290:

DemonSeed.3528:

Anet, don’t change it. Let those serious about wvw commit themselves. It’s not about the shinies anyway. Let’s not make it just about those things. Lowering it won’t change anything if they are going to leave after getting it. Leave it as is.

Funny how you say it’s not about the shines while near everyone who played wvw for years is whining about that exact thing.

Well except for the fact that we had zero rewards for the first two years and we still played.

If you truly have “zero” reward. Then you must just login in wvw and just afk the entire time, i dont think afking in wvw is consider playing, but it seem most vet think so.

Um no.

From launch of WvW up to about year two, there was very little to no reward for playing WvW. No chests, no loot (well a bit of copper, yes copper, for flipping a tower) and pretty much zilch for anyone who scouted.

In fact scouts were often responsible for paying for the map upgrades. 25 silver for a camp (I think, it’s been a while) and up to about 5 gold to upgrade a keep. Often times you’d spend upwards of 100 gold a week keeping up a map in any given match.

If you’re generating copper to flip a structure, with no chests, no rewards otherwise, you can do the math and realize that WvW was (and some would argue still is compared to pve) a losing proposition.

People played it for 12-14 hours a day though. Why? Because you were part of a team and it was (and still is) exciting.

So you have to understand that when pve folks, or someone who’s spent something like 300 hours in WvW sinch LAUNCH come in here asking for compensation and insta-rewards, there’s going to be some pushback. Especially when you don’t need the reward to play the game.

Let the vets who had nothing for years finally have some cachet, some pride in the game mode they’ve invested in.

You are not limited from getting it yourself. You just have to put in the time.

Najten.2418:

You can’t compare it to AP though, since all people started with 0 buffs from AP when they were introduced and all had to grind their way to their rewards.
As I said, it’s not a problem that there’s a grind, so if everyone started with 0 WvW Rank and the armor was the 2k reward, fine. But that’s not the case.

That doesn’t change the fact that potential AP is still lower for new players.

Various special events gave 25 points for doing the meta and it wasn’t very hard. While nowadays it doesn’t give nearly as much. Those were legit ways to pad out AP though while not a big deal, certainly rubbed a few the wrong way.

Najten.2418:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the access to guild wvw boosts and celebration boosters that were not available in the past, it’s easier to earn WvW rank for new players starting out. This point is moot

Sure. A new account.. Assuming you get into a guild with the WvW booster.. Lvl 80 Booster gives you 1 Celebration Booster. Day 19 of logins gives you another.. so on day 20 you get to enjoy a grand total of 3 hours of 110% WvW XP. Then what? Back to 10% bonus for 30 days until you get another 1.5 hours?

That runs under an assumption that a new player is going to immediately aim for end game goals which would make little sense. A level 10 running out of Queensdale is probably not going into WvW. And this is my main problem with any “new player” comment. When you’re an established player with certain wants and needs, and try to project that new players have the same ones as you at this point in time.

It is honestly not a good habit, because that spreads misinformation that it is impossible to get anything in this game while there are tons of low hanging fruit (even in WvW here, such as the t1-t2 and even the legendary backpiece) that sport lesser requirements.

A new player can also make 5 character slots, and receive birthday boosters every year. They also can get XP boosters from AP chests (easier to gain AP when you are new) and get some from the box of WvW supplies. And these aren’t the crappy “XP from kills” we had. This is just straight up WxP boost.

In a year, they’ll have 5 birthday boosters, for a good 120 hours, 12 celebration boosters, for another 12 hours. And some from AP chests. If they managed to get the Ley-line converters they may have even more boosters, and even have some World Ranks without even going into WvW

Old players, regardless of WvW or not, didn’t always have it like that. They also didn’t get 2 gold for just doing dailies.

ArchonWing.9480:

That doesn’t change the fact that potential AP is still lower for new players.

Various special events gave 25 points for doing the meta and it wasn’t very hard. While nowadays it doesn’t give nearly as much. Those were legit ways to pad out AP though while not a big deal, certainly rubbed a few the wrong way.

Some achievements reward little to no AP for a lot of work, others reward a lot for almost no effort. I actually just finished the “Current Events” one called “Disturbance in the Depths” with the 5 followup “Sensor Scouter” ones.. Easy 30 AP in ~1 hour, and neatly finished off my 30k before my vacation. But yes, a lot of achievements are no longer available, which sucks, however: because people did complain about the LS Season 1 and how it worked it was changed for Season 2 and Season 3.

ArchonWing.9480:

Najten.2418:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the access to guild wvw boosts and celebration boosters that were not available in the past, it’s easier to earn WvW rank for new players starting out. This point is moot

Sure. A new account.. Assuming you get into a guild with the WvW booster.. Lvl 80 Booster gives you 1 Celebration Booster. Day 19 of logins gives you another.. so on day 20 you get to enjoy a grand total of 3 hours of 110% WvW XP. Then what? Back to 10% bonus for 30 days until you get another 1.5 hours?

That runs under an assumption that a new player is going to immediately aim for end game goals which would make little sense. A level 10 running out of Queensdale is probably not going into WvW. And this is my main problem with any “new player” comment. When you’re an established player with certain wants and needs, and try to project that new players have the same ones as you at this point in time.

It is honestly not a good habit, because that spreads misinformation that it is impossible to get anything in this game while there are tons of low hanging fruit (even in WvW here, such as the t1-t2 and even the legendary backpiece) that sport lesser requirements.

A new player can also make 5 character slots, and receive birthday boosters every year. They also can get XP boosters from AP chests (easier to gain AP when you are new) and get some from the box of WvW supplies. And these aren’t the crappy “XP from kills” we had. This is just straight up WxP boost.

In a year, they’ll have 5 birthday boosters, for a good 120 hours, 12 celebration boosters, for another 12 hours. And some from AP chests. If they managed to get the Ley-line converters they may have even more boosters, and even have some World Ranks without even going into WvW

Old players, regardless of WvW or not, didn’t always have it like that. They also didn’t get 2 gold for just doing dailies.

You said “it’s easier to earn WvW rank for new players starting out.”
The emphasized bit is why I responded the way I did.
I also doubt they’re gonna look at the WvW stuff and go “yup, that’s what I’m gonna set my sights on!” the first week.. but they are likely to try out the game mode. If they even realise to save this Celebration Bonus.. To us it’s obvious that it’s best spent in WvW, but a new player might not realise that.

Most new players also don’t realise that you even get birthday rewards. Even fewer make 4 extra characters just to get these rewards.

And yes, I know very well how little gold you gained at the start.. Ever hear of a new player now not being able to afford to use the nearest WP? Yeah, me neither. Was pretty common at the start. I even remember having to borrow 2 copper from a friend to afford armor repairs.. Think my first lvl 80 reached max with like 50 silver in her pocket.. Making 5 gold from the TP when selling stuff, was enough to buy Abyss Dye! The struggle to afford Order Armor for, 8g or something? Just looking at the costs for Tier 3 Cultural…

Well, more precisely assuming a player starts the game now. It is not too hard to think of the progression 1-2 years down the line when they will have gotten enough stuff and aim for even more. Many players didn’t have a lot of things across this time span though there are always those that are either good at learning or have previous experience that accelerates them faster.

The Birthday Booster thing is somewhat true. I don’t think people make new characters simply to take advantage of things, but I also know a lot of people tend to just hoard these things in fear of wasting it…. and this usually works out.

And yea nobody values WPs anymore— there was actually a huge moral debate about the ethics of using WvW or PvP to go to Lion’s Arch, and thus bypass a waypoint fee. It was pretty silly if you look back on it. And even stuff like t3 cultural has become a curious oddity of the past.

Anyhow, I bring these things up, because yes, I have protested these issues. In fact, every issue I’ve brought up has seen a post from me despite me not really having anything to gain from arguing said points. If the rewards here were all locked behind a high wvw rank, I’d have more to say.

And personally, I think I’ll be doing the t2 for quite a while since it actually seems like a good way to get ascended armor. Sorta. Better than crafting.

ArchonWing.9480:

And yea nobody values WPs anymore— there was actually a huge moral debate about the ethics of using WvW or PvP to go to Lion’s Arch, and thus bypass a waypoint fee. It was pretty silly if you look back on it. And even stuff like t3 cultural has become a curious oddity of the past.

I totally did that though. It saved like 2 silver!! Usually used the PvP lobby though. Then again nobody used WvW for it if there was a queue.. xD

ArchonWing.9480:

And personally, I think I’ll be doing the t2 for quite a while since it actually seems like a good way to get ascended armor. Sorta. Better than crafting.

Yeah you wish.. The tokens required to “buy” it though still require you to craft… with a maxed out crafting profession matching the armor you wish to buy. Another silly decision by ANet imo. Ascended from vendors was initially a way to bypass crafting for those that really really hated it, but now ofc it requires almost more crafting to “buy” an Ascended armor than to just craft it.. You will probably save like 5-10g/piece though, however the timegated materials are doubled (atleast on some armors). Gl with the T2 either way.

ArchonWing.9480:

And personally, I think I’ll be doing the t2 for quite a while since it actually seems like a good way to get ascended armor. Sorta. Better than crafting.

And once you unlock T2, then the T3 stuff doesn’t require the marks (the crafting aspect). Which is odd, but whatever. All assuming after getting the T2 stuff you will be rank 2000ish.

Chinchilla.1785:

And once you unlock T2, then the T3 stuff doesn’t require the marks (the crafting aspect). Which is odd, but whatever. All assuming after getting the T2 stuff you will be rank 2000ish.

Yeah I thought that was a bit weird about not needing those grandmaster thingies but it is a relief in a way. Definitely not gonna complain :P

Heh, I am past 2k but at this rate I may not even bother with t3 until 2k ranks later . Only got to plat this week.

Not a big deal.