Guild Wars 2

Hi!

This is least what i’m feeling. Two content patches, all focused heavily on PvE-content (Or only pve content if you don’t count the 3 minigames in halloween as “real” PvP).

WvWvW is still meaningless. Also it’s unaffected by most PvP-balance changes because WvWvW is seen as “PvE-content” (or something). Why? Isn’t wvwvw PvP too?

I mean, I like gw2 but it seems that as a longterm game this will be another PvE-mmo, like WoW, SWTor, Tera or Rift. Why? Do we really need another PvE-MMO?

I know that it’s less than 3 months since GW2 was released but i’m just worried that GW2 is another MMO focused heavily on PvE. I have patience, it’s just the focus that worries me. The last patches clearly showed what A-net wants GW2 to be: A PvE-MMO. The already very small PvP-changes were also “meh”: Mesmer, Thieves and bunker-speccs are still dominating heavily in sPvP, Warrior (or any other class actually, Warrior was just the first class I played in sPvP) are close to unusable against teams with stacked OP-classes (There are some speccs which are working though but not if the other team is heavily dominating the game).

I already know the answer but I hope this makes Anet change their priorities a bit

I was rather hoping the “big patch on the 15th” would have something in it for WvW.

I’m not picky. Doesn’t have to be 3 new maps. Just….something.

Gaming companies think that we still want to play against the computer. There’s several hundred thousand of us who keep game hopping hoping for the next good place to get large scale PVP. So far this is ok to good, but it could be a lot better with some focus by Anet.

joebane.5872:

Gaming companies think that we still want to play against the computer. There’s several hundred thousand of us who keep game hopping hoping for the next good place to get large scale PVP. So far this is ok to good, but it could be a lot better with some focus by Anet.

Would be a hell of a lot better if they reset the servers

But I always thought people still play this game because of WvW

I dont get this PVE priority thing.

“The WvW players are pretty happy but the PvE players aren’t. We need to focus on PvE.”

Every company says exactly this.
Eventually the WvW (PvP) players become unhappy due to lack of updates while the PvE players are NEVER, EVER going to be satisfied.

Eventually the game collapses because the PvP content is all old and stale and while the PvE players got 15 big updates, it’s never enough to keep them going and there goes Rift, Aion, Warhammer and basically every other MMORPG.

WvW is considered PvE to Anet, you can see they divide skills to work differently in SPvP and PvE.. and WvW gets the PvE versions, SPvP has had updates.. soooo what are you whining about?

Slamz.5376:

“The WvW players are pretty happy but the PvE players aren’t. We need to focus on PvE.”

Every company says exactly this.
Eventually the WvW (PvP) players become unhappy due to lack of updates while the PvE players are NEVER, EVER going to be satisfied.

Eventually the game collapses because the PvP content is all old and stale and while the PvE players got 15 big updates, it’s never enough to keep them going and there goes Rift, Aion, Warhammer and basically every other MMORPG.

Add to that, when we do get updates all we get is another gear/renown/rank grind. I doubt very many people, if any, are looking for that out of WvW right now. It’s going to take someone who understands the economics of the gaming industry, and our market segment as non PVE gamers to get in the program before we see any real change to the state of mind that generates that bull.

Even better, I peek into that dungeon foyer tonight.
Dungeon runners can get 20 slot bags and something that gives them an instant skillpoint so it’s not just gear, it’s other goodies.

All we can do is hangout until it becomes taxing then vanish.

I don’t know how many more ways we can state that this is what we chose as our end-game. There are pages and pages of it. The dungeon runners are already starting with elitist mc-crapple. After they get their shinies, they will go, then cycle 2 will start.

We have all seen it in other games.
One day, ONE DAY there has to be a game for us, I’ll see you in it when it shows up.

psirca.9452:

Even better, I peek into that dungeon foyer tonight.
Dungeon runners can get 20 slot bags and something that gives them an instant skillpoint so it’s not just gear, it’s other goodies.

All we can do is hangout until it becomes taxing then vanish.

I don’t know how many more ways we can state that this is what we chose as our end-game. There are pages and pages of it. The dungeon runners are already starting with elitist mc-crapple. After they get their shinies, they will go, then cycle 2 will start.

Seriously? They even get more bag space?

This is going from ridiculous to ridiculously stupid really fast.

Planetside 2? I heard it comes out soon, but not sure if it’s good.

I don’t like FPS anymore, not sure why.

Also the post sounded maybe too negative. I still like GW2 and I still play it. However, the fun I have with it lowers each day, mostly because sPvP and WvWvW (especially WvWvW, sPvP is still kinda fun because PvP in GW2 is fun (Only if you play bunker, thief or mesmer though)).

What I want to say is that WvWvW IS the iceberg in my opinion and not sPvP.
The main problem of WvVvW is that it isn’t really fun: Invisible armies, zergs > all, “PvE”-capping in some matches, WvWvW unaffected by PvP-balances (Ever played against a confusion-mesmer? They can stack up easily 8-12 confusions on a whole group which deal about 3.4k damage per skill used. Also thieves. Seriously, why the hell isn’t WvWvW affected by sPvP-balance? Isn’t wvwvw pvp? zzz), close to no rewards at all, an extremely frustrating badge-system, close to no gold rewarded (on some days you even lose gold in WvWvW), no sense of progression in any kind and not a viable way to level anymore (You need to be constantly capping to get close to the amount of EP you gain from PvE. You can’t get the keep? Well, sucks to be you. Defending is fine though, if you deal enough damage to “cap” the event, which is a big if as lowlvl. Also you are probably taking away a spot for a geared lvl 80).

Also no way to get the legendary. Why can only cursed shore farmes and TP-players get a legendary? Are those the most legendary players in Tyria? ( If someone here says that earning gold = a way to get the legendary I swear to god !_!_! )

Slamz.5376:

“The WvW players are pretty happy but the PvE players aren’t. We need to focus on PvE.”

Every company says exactly this.
Eventually the WvW (PvP) players become unhappy due to lack of updates while the PvE players are NEVER, EVER going to be satisfied.

Eventually the game collapses because the PvP content is all old and stale and while the PvE players got 15 big updates, it’s never enough to keep them going and there goes Rift, Aion, Warhammer and basically every other MMORPG.

Your point does have some merit BUT you obviously have no idea what really killed all of those games. It wasn’t the PVE focus.

Yea, Warhammer was bad, bugged, unfinished and hilariously unbalanced for a PvP game. Also it was still WoW burning crusade, the golden age of WoW-PvP. Aion was a bad korean grinder and Rift is doing good.

I don’t remember where I read it, but someone put it well, I thought:

PVE pays the bills. WvW/sPVP gives the game “street cred.”

Too true.

Why does WvW need updates? It’s working just fine.

It seems most people get upset because there’s not change for the sake of change. Change for the sake of change is what ruins good games, not what improves them.

Yes PVE was just “changed for the sake of change” and it’s all bad changes…. but WvW genuinely needed real groundshaking changes and isn’t getting them this month.

.

Slamz.5376:

I was rather hoping the “big patch on the 15th” would have something in it for WvW.

And I’d add: we were more or less led to believe it would:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Small-update/first#post480648

But given their track record with smaller teams (as in going off of GW1 standard development windows), we’ve got atleast 2 more months before any of that stuff starts filtering in.

I’m sad now b/c I used to play this almost entirely for PvE and now that’s become the domain of Infusion grind leaving WvW as the only last hope for casual play that still gives Skill the greatest edge. I hope it happens sooner rather than later but in the meantime I’m Feeling completely displaced right now by Anet’s double speak about treadmills. (I also took a long break from the first game when they introduced the NornRep—>Ursan grind)

they should close this wvw discussion section and move all threads into pve section.

No word on WvW progressions
No Word on WvW updates
No word on WvW Culling fixes
No Word on anything related to WvW then a few hits like we have something in the future.

Planetside 2 release in 3 days, packing my bags and switch to that game untill this get sorted out.

Strange thing is that GW2 has PvP writen all over it, yet we get nothing in last patches.
Gamebreaking culling bug is making WvW a complete joke.

Seems most of us asking for a solid WvW / RvR game are once again left in the cold.
2013 Elder Scroll Online seems decent, but iam going to wait and see what that hold before buying into another hype.
Still it has more sandbox elements then GW2, thats a good thing at least

Pherenice.8124:

No word on WvW progressions
No Word on WvW updates
No word on WvW Culling fixes
No Word on anything related to WvW then a few hits like we have something in the future.

Planetside 2 release in 3 days, packing my bags and switch to that game untill this get sorted out.

Strange thing is that GW2 has PvP writen all over it, yet we get nothing in last patches.
Gamebreaking culling bug is making WvW a complete joke.

Seems most of us asking for a solid WvW / RvR game are once again left in the cold.
2013 Elder Scroll Online seems decent, but iam going to wait and see what that hold before buying into another hype.
Still it has more sandbox elements then GW2, thats a good thing at least

Two weird things, GUILDWARS2 didn’t have any GUILD VS GUILD content under the name GUILDWARS; the other is the wvwvw never get updated, problems never get solved, but was affected to be shut down by reasons like candycorn nodes and unidentified dyes dropping rate.

The elder scrolls online could be a great threat to guildwars2, despite the lame movement and possibly ruined game lores, but I think I’m gonna enjoy the siege since gw2 gives nothing to do with their wvw.

I always thought anet would prioritize pvp over pve but it seems they are just like every other mmo company and will focus on pve over pvp.. disappointing to say the least.

I had the same tought Bunzy
Seems we where wrong once again.

Bunzy.8674:

I always thought anet would prioritize pvp over pve but it seems they are just like every other mmo company and will focus on pve over pvp.. disappointing to say the least.

I’m guessing you’ve never played Guild Wars? Because if you did you should have known that after the release of Guild Wars Prophecies Arenanet stopped being a PvP focussed developer.

Would be nice if i could get atleast get some gear from WvW other then the power/vit/tough stuff. Which imo looks bad aswell.

If you want to gear for WvW you have to do PvE.

Terrahero.9358:

Would be nice if i could get atleast get some gear from WvW other then the power/vit/tough stuff. Which imo looks bad aswell.

If you want to gear for WvW you have to do PvE.

That’s the thing that’s bothering people about Ascended gear. You can’t (yet, if ever) get it via WvW.

You can get exotics from WvW in 3 forms: crafted (save your gold from WvW), Invaders (use your WvW tokens), or with karma from all the WvW DEs.

PvE pays the bills I guess. The WvW playders are a fraction of the people who do PvE. Priority goes to whatever makes the most money. Standard business model.

Though I wish they will just add some new siege equipment or at least make some new maps. not the hardest of content to implement. But then even redirecting resources to appease us will mean fewer PvE people will stay. Priority is where the money is. It makes perfect sense. Not one that I like, but it makes sense.

KensaiZen.3740:

PvE pays the bills I guess. The WvW playders are a fraction of the people who do PvE. Priority goes to whatever makes the most money. Standard business model.

Though I wish they will just add some new siege equipment or at least make some new maps. not the hardest of content to implement. But then even redirecting resources to appease us will mean fewer PvE people will stay. Priority is where the money is. It makes perfect sense. Not one that I like, but it makes sense.

Guess why more people play WvWvW than PvE… Got it? Because WvWvW is in a pretty horrible state. League of Legends is the most played game in the world and it’s a purely aPvP-game, so don’t tell me there aren’t enough PvP-players out there :/

Now compare the PvP gamers numbers VS PvE gamers numbers for the entire world.

PvE wins.

WvW will get some love soon. I can feel it the thing is, we have each other to keep us entertained. PvE people get bored FAST without new content. With the average attention span of the western gamer being omfg short. Its not a wonder they have to keep pumping PvE with content to keep players.

These are the reasons why I left the game, I had really high hopes for WvW, which was the main selling point for me, but to be completely honest ArenaNet failed hard and when you really scratch the surface you can see the real big problems that this game has in WvW.

Some points:

1. Only two maps (Eternal Battlegrounds and three times copy/pasted borderlands).
2. Maps are too small and objectives are way too clumped up.
3. Zergs win the game.
4. No option to roam with smaller groups, die to maps being too small and objectives clumped up.
5. No option to make a group bigger then five (whoever mentions Commanders and Squads needs to check how other RvR games did it).
6. Invisible enemies/Culling issue.
7. Zero skill needed, since all you do is spam AOE (check some videos from “top notch” WvW guilds, it is laughable).
8 Waaaaay too much AOE and it stacks.
9. Bugs and exploits.
10. No personal progression and no progression overall – WvW is just one big circle jerk festival with no endgame and no purpose.
11. Scoring system.
12. Downed system – is there anyone who likes this?
13. No player names – all players are like NPC`s.
14. Free transfers that ruined the potential of WvW at the opening month or two.

Yes, with the difference that the PvE-MMO market is saturated, while the PvP-MMO market (non fps-style) is completely empty. Anet could get most PvP-players from WoW, Rift and SWTor but they rather insist to focus on PvE.

And yes, we have each other to entertain ourselves. However, this is only possible in a fun environment with a lot of variety. A prime example here is lol’s summoner’s rift. Amazing designed, tons of secondary objectives, a very big map, bushes. No match is the same.

(The discussions we have here is btw stupid anyway, we both don’t have any numbers and we are just speculating.)

Teabaker.9524:

Yes, with the difference that the PvE-MMO market is saturated, while the PvP-MMO market (non fps-style) is completely empty.

Not quite, EVE is probably the 4th or 5th largest MMORPG (in the West), but yes in terms of a traditional fanatasy type MMORPG that doesn’t put people off with things like full looting, there is a big gap.

This is what leaves me wondering if Anet really cares about the WvW player base a fraction as much as they do the PvE player base. I won’t even get into the issues with the fact they even state WvW will keep using the same balance and rule sets as PvE…

Where are the Karma weapons with same stats as Dungeon gear?

Why don’t Exotic Karma or Badge set gives the same stats as Dungeon gear which has things like crit damage?

Why do we have to go to PvE land buy Karma armor sets with the points we earned in WvW?

Also, some of us spend more in WvW than we make. You know, the ones who mostly gear with badges, throw down lots of siege and upgrades to help their server, and spend almost 100% of their game time in WvW. If people think those players have the same opportunities of gear progression and flexibly as PvE grinders and TP meta game players (or people who buy gold from bots) then I am not sure what to say to them.

Sylosi.6503:

Teabaker.9524:

Yes, with the difference that the PvE-MMO market is saturated, while the PvP-MMO market (non fps-style) is completely empty.

Not quite, EVE is probably the 4th or 5th largest MMORPG (in the West), but yes in terms of a traditional fanatasy type MMORPG that doesn’t put people off with things like full looting, there is a big gap.

True actually. I played Eve for some time. The combat got boring after a while though

Veles.5289:

These are the reasons why I left the game, I had really high hopes for WvW, which was the main selling point for me, but to be completely honest ArenaNet failed hard and when you really scratch the surface you can see the real big problems that this game has in WvW.

Some points:

1. Only two maps (Eternal Battlegrounds and three times copy/pasted borderlands).
2. Maps are too small and objectives are way too clumped up.
3. Zergs win the game.
4. No option to roam with smaller groups, die to maps being too small and objectives clumped up.
5. No option to make a group bigger then five (whoever mentions Commanders and Squads needs to check how other RvR games did it).
6. Invisible enemies/Culling issue.
7. Zero skill needed, since all you do is spam AOE (check some videos from “top notch” WvW guilds, it is laughable).
8 Waaaaay too much AOE and it stacks.
9. Bugs and exploits.
10. No personal progression and no progression overall – WvW is just one big circle jerk festival with no endgame and no purpose.
11. Scoring system.
12. Downed system – is there anyone who likes this?
13. No player names – all players are like NPC`s.
14. Free transfers that ruined the potential of WvW at the opening month or two.

Pretty much summoned up most of my views atm.

One thing you missed for me though, is the amount of mobs in the WvW zones. Why the hell do you need so many krait, skrit, and stupid stealth mobs that do NOTHING but distract players from helping their server and make map travel more of a headache for no good reason? The idea of occasional “Boss” mobs and maybe future NPC champions are great and something that can really add more depth to the WvW world. They can be mini objectives worth fighting over. But things like the Grub are just silly in their current form. They have way too many HP, take too many players to kill given the current map caps, and do very very little to reward the players or server who kill them. It’s just a shiny thrown in appease the PvErs who wandered onto our maps.

Downed I don’t mind. Though it does need tweeking (too many HP, oh but we are PvEing not PvPing) and major balancing on class downed abilities.

Lack of maps or diversity / Too small = Simple map rotations with 3 options would have been nice. It would also give Anet a chance to add some variation in size and alternatives to just siege based objectives. Camps are a good start, but they need more and ones that are not so packed close together.

No cross server communication or identity kills PvP community. If Anet feels /ignore is good enough for me to stop bot spam, why isn’t it good enough to stop player trolls? All you are really doing by blocking ALL communication is keeping the ones of us who do enjoy a good chat with the enemy from having a chance too. And don’t give me an excuse its to cut down “spying”. Something servers already do and Anet admits doesn’t care. Groups will always find a way to do this if they want. Again all the zero identity feature does is make the WvW world feel more like one big PvE dynamic event instead of a place to interact in a Player vs Player environment.

Progression… see all the post pointing out how WvW players have a fraction of the gear and other progression PvE grinders have.

AoE spam. Everyone worries so much about PvP games having too much CC in them which ruins the fun. The same is true of too much AoE dependence. Siege and a few select abilities are fine to make them “special”. But when the game becomes more about everyone running around using AoE abilities in mass in order to kill any decent sized group, something is wrong. Atm half the melee classes run around “surviving” between AE CDs, then just smash them and pretend it takes some skill.

Ranting aside, I do find most of the PvP combat system enjoyable. But some of the game features and content designed for the PvP community seem to do more harm than good encouraging it. It leaves you scratching your head and wondering “why?”. I truly do not see what direction the developers have in mind for WvW, and starting to think maybe they don’t know either.

My vieuw on WvW has complety changed since this patch.
I went from 100% faith WvW had top prio to -100% faith and they dont care about WvW maps + players + balance.

This patch was a shockwave trough the WvW community.
So many glaring bugs
Gamebreaking glitches
Culling
Soon PvE guilds stomping WvW guilds with their new top notch gear
No real updates since lauch to make WvW better or more diverse
EU ladder a complete joke with free transfers
We can go on and on and on but you guys know the fracking drill.

Here i was thinking Anet could do it right for the RvR/WvW folks, seems we where wrong once again.
Time to pack our bags and move out again.

So needless to say, the easiest fix for this problem is for Anet to provide the gear that can be attained through PvE and dungeons.

I can live with this. I have stupid amounts of Karma that needs spending and I’ll wait forever for cursed shores temples to be opened.

Until this game has PvP like Warhammer Online does, it won’t be any good.

One of the anet’s dev said during one of the expo (gamescom iirc) that they found out that about 80% of their playerbase in gw1 was focused solely on pve. Now, if 80% of the playerbase of the game that was released as a pvp game played that game for pve content imagine the ratio in the game with all the goodies of pve-focused mmos. It’s at least at that level if not probably bigger.

I’m quite baffled as to why Anet hasn’t put much effort into WvW. There are dozens of games where I can go fight a scripted monster, many of which do scripted monsters better than GW2. PvE in this game is frankly sub par. sPvP and tPvP also aren’t particularly well done or much different from what I can get from another generic MMO. WvW is what differentiates GW2 from run of the mill MMOs and really should be the star of this game.

You guys really need to learn some patience. As someone who has been playing MMORPG’s for over a decade you need to wait until February minimum to make any real judgements on half of the things you are making knee-jerk reactions too.

I know some of this stuff is not to your liking now, but give constructive threads and avoid whining as much as possible. Do your best to help them build the game better. Games generally do improve and get better. This one started out pretty dang good and you wouldn’t be upset at all if they hadn’t done such a good job to start. Being upset requires that you care.

Ralathar.7236:

You guys really need to learn some patience. As someone who has been playing MMORPG’s for over a decade you need to wait until February minimum to make any real judgements on half of the things you are making knee-jerk reactions too.

I know some of this stuff is not to your liking now, but give constructive threads and avoid whining as much as possible. Do your best to help them build the game better. Games generally do improve and get better. This one started out pretty dang good and you wouldn’t be upset at all if they hadn’t done such a good job to start. Being upset requires that you care.

As someone who has played MMO’s for over a decade, ArenaNet had their shot and blew it. This isn’t a knee-jerk reaction. WvW is far less in-depth than Vanilla WoW AV. The only good points it has right now is that siege is placeable anywhere and walls can be broken. It needed to be far more in-depth to keep people playing it and certainly needed a goal.

ArenaNet has failed time and time again. The whole orb buff thing was a no brainer and shouldn’t have made it passed internal discussions. Stealth+culling issues are major game engine issues that should have been accounted for when building the game. Night capping needed to be accounted for in the scoring system, especially since they knew they had no plans for an oceanic server. The entire PvP badge/bag drop thing just blows my mind, who thought it was smart to just drop bags of loot in the middle of PvP battles? Now we have a failed class balance patch and ascended gear?

6 months is not enough to fix what’s wrong with WvW. You would need new bigger maps, more in-depth mechanics(ladders, tunnels, buildable walls, worthwhile NPC patrols, minefields, tougher siege equipment, less AOE, less burst damage, etc), better scoring system, better population regulation, more anti-zerg mechanics, etc. Basically an entire WvW overhaul, otherwise it will just continue to get stale.

Ralathar.7236:

You guys really need to learn some patience. As someone who has been playing MMORPG’s for over a decade you need to wait until February minimum to make any real judgements on half of the things you are making knee-jerk reactions too.

I know some of this stuff is not to your liking now, but give constructive threads and avoid whining as much as possible. Do your best to help them build the game better. Games generally do improve and get better. This one started out pretty dang good and you wouldn’t be upset at all if they hadn’t done such a good job to start. Being upset requires that you care.

I have patience but the Anet’s focus clearly isn’t PvP, at all. It’s PvE. You see this with the balance changes, you see this with the nonexistent WvWvW-updates. This game follows exactly SWTor’s route in terms of PvP: Add some content every few months, without fixing the core problems, without fixing balancing issues and they think this will keep the PvP-players happy.

I saw this with WoW (with each addon) and I saw this with SWTor. Anet follows exactly the same route as Bioware: “Soon” “We have something on its way”, while the core problems remain unfixed.

What’s PvE? oh, you mean that zone that helps you gear up for WvW? pfft.

Pherenice.8124:

No word on WvW Culling fixes

They posted about this a few days ago…

I purchased the game just for WvW. I’ve stepped out of it for some dungeons and events but otherwise PvE presents no interest or challenge to me.

I’m sure many others purchased the game primarily for PvP / WvW.

Constant updates for something that is responsible for a huge amount of players purchasing the game seems like it would be in ArenaNets best interest ($$$).

Especially seeing as it differentiates the game from it’s competition, such as WoW.

So far I’ve loved WvW, it’s heaps of fun. It just needs tweaking and occasional updates like new maps, siege, rewards etc. to keep it interesting

WIth this latest patch, I don’t see much difference between WoW and GW, seriously.

There is still lots that makes it different than WoW. I actually do find the zones and leveling in PvE enjoyable for one. But I can agree, that when it comes to allowing PvE to over influence PvP in the World vs World setting and paying too little attention to the WvW community, the latest changes and lack of fixes for us does seem like a familiar path.

I don’t think the wvw world rankings are even updated this week on the stickied thread. I think we have been abandoned…

joebane.5872:

Gaming companies think that we still want to play against the computer. There’s several hundred thousand of us who keep game hopping hoping for the next good place to get large scale PVP. So far this is ok to good, but it could be a lot better with some focus by Anet.

Agreed

Sensationalism and hyperbole. How utterly American.

Try being a bit more critical and less entitled to be right. You are obviously too caught up in your own point of view to be objective. Honestly this game hasn’t been out long enough for anyone to have a valid opinion on what their focus or concerns are.