Guild Wars 2

I have an armor rating of 2682, and i am getting critically hit by thieves up to 12k? What gives?? I am stacking toughness to defend against this crap and still am getting dropped faster than i can even counter it. Unless i am doing something wrong, i am getting close to uninstalling this game. I dont mean to rage or anything but there appears to be a serious WvW balance issue. The average hit from them is around 4k but still with how fast they strike it kills me 4-kittens.

Sounds like you’re eating a cloak and dagger/backstab combo. What class are you?

“L2P”

-kitten Thief; OneOfThe12Derps

Anyway, you will have to live with the fact that Thieves will almost always have the first hit advantage, so L2 aegis, protection, stealth, or dodge. Uh… also AOE/drop conditions to discourage thieves.

i am an engineer, i just find this completely unbalanced that a class can 3-4 shot someone with a tanky build. i am in all rabid,carrion and dire gear.

Engis also have some very powerful conditions builds & tankish builds actually, should we ask to nerf them ?

Use dodges, positioning, and condi removals to avoid the most painful strikes from thieves. Once you survive those blows, they are usually very fragile if you have retal up, conditions, immobilization etc.

You can be successful in killing them with many conditions, a lot of burning in particular tends to make them reappear downed.

Also, you should not be ashamed to lose 1vs1 to a thief in WvW.
Lonely roaming assassination is their domain. It endorses group play instead of lone players in WvW. Working as intented to me.

It’s because of the silly amount of crit dmg that you can stack in WvW. Max dmg thieves are usually super glassy though so if you can survive the initial burst, they will look for another victim. I won’t say you will outright kill them if you survive the burst since many run max stealth specs.

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Its not just u. Seems like this is “normal” for Anet.
They are a 1v1 class and that makes up for everything, yet put them in a party and they still 3 shot ppl and it doesnt look to me the thief goes out of combat that much to justify the damage.
Ofc we can dodge aegis protection regen etc. All those buffs have 100% uptime and are there on any builds. Just like the dmg on thief.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IamMugi?feature=watch – just look for the group fights and see how the thief melts his targets + the kitten easy stomps. Take him out of that group and it would take ages to melt that amount of ppl with just 5. Wont deny that they know how to play the game/ classes etc, but that is just LOL, thief spamming 3-4 skills and ur dead …

tAzz.8497:

Its not just u. Seems like this is “normal” for Anet.
They are a 1v1 class and that makes up for everything, yet put them in a party and they still 3 shot ppl and it doesnt look to me the thief goes out of combat that much to justify the damage.
Ofc we can dodge aegis protection regen etc. All those buffs have 100% uptime and are there on any builds. Just like the dmg on thief.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IamMugi?feature=watch – just look for the group fights and see how the thief melts his targets + the kitten easy stomps. Take him out of that group and it would take ages to melt that amount of ppl with just 5. Wont deny that they know how to play the game/ classes etc, but that is just LOL, thief spamming 3-4 skills and ur dead …

ele is even more powerful than thief in group play. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsj8EUyRa0k FYI mugi is an extraordinary thief one of the best you will ever come across.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ3LEbrg6f0 op mesmer?(sarcasm)

There’s a reason why thieves and mesmers are so prevalent in pvp lol

borrok.9267:

There’s a reason why thieves and mesmers are so prevalent in pvp lol

only in hot join where the lots of players lack skill and knowledge.

Dude stop trying , what does that ele have to do with thief burst ?
1v10 mesmer, good players i must say.
Wheres the burst ??? care to link some moar ?

Illusions.3108:

I have an armor rating of 2682

Yep that’s low-medium armor, practically berserker.

Try again when you have 4K armor.

You’ll find that thieves will still 3 shot you.

tAzz.8497:

Dude stop trying , what does that ele have to do with thief burst ?
1v10 mesmer, good players i must say.
Wheres the burst ??? care to link some moar ?

ele insane burst http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFLZeMQFaAQ

=)) now i understand why u linked a condition mesmer when wr talking about burst.

tAzz.8497:

=)) now i understand why u linked a condition mesmer when wr talking about burst.

insane guardian burst http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgYhGde9Qmc

vincecontix.1264:

borrok.9267:

There’s a reason why thieves and mesmers are so prevalent in pvp lol

only in hot join where the lots of players lack skill and knowledge.

Also true.

Thief sneaks up on an Ele
CnD -> BS = Ele is downed
Ele mistforms into tower
Thief cries OP

Mesmer drops a feedback and 12 conf stacks on a Ranger
Ranger instantly downs himself
Mesmer tries to DPS Ranger to death
Pet outheals Mesmer DPS
Mesmer cries OP

Thieves are one of the easier fights for an eng.

If it’s a DD thief, try your best to dodge the cloak and dagger. You’ll probably have decent vigor uptime as an eng to help with this.

So say they land the C&D, pop shield 5 and watch them stun themselves.

Bomb 4 is a smoke field (puleses blind). They won’t be able to backstab you if you sit in it. You can also use one of your many blast finishers at the end of it to give yourself stealth.

EG auto attack applies weakness. This will kitten their damage.

Gear shield is a 3s block on a 20s cooldown.

Use your cc’s to make it harder to get to/behind you (chill/immobilize/cripples/knockbacks).

Learn how to move to make backstabbing more difficult through movement.

With bombs and nades you don’t need to have a target, you just need to have an idea of where they are. You can use these to help control an area.

You should be able to predict thieves pretty well with practice, if you need/want, play a thief for a short while and think what you would do in that situation, then counter that.

Healing… Sustained healing: HT->overcharge, pick it back up. Picking the HT back up lowers the cooldown.

Eg5+regen+ heal while using a kit trait is on par with war healing signet.

Burst heal: HT->overcharge->detonate->other blast finishers.

You might want to look up some WvW solo roaming vids in the eng forums and see what other people do with their set ups. It’s one of the more common opponents to come across.

@ thief complainers… thieves are not the best 1v1 class. Most classes when played well can kill a thief or at least make them run away. They are not the best large group class. Thieves are best at things like scouting/tagging keeps/ganking yaks/supply trapping/ganking low skill players that turn into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.

Aberrant.6749:

@ thief complainers… thieves are not the best 1v1 class. Most classes when played well can kill a thief or at least make them run away. They are not the best large group class. Thieves are best at things like scouting/tagging keeps/ganking yaks/supply trapping/ganking low skill players that turn into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.

Pretty much this. And OP your toughness is not high for WvW. >3k armor would be standard for most people. Since you are running engi you should try to compensate with protection uptime if you can’t increase your toughness.

Condi/perplex engi > thief.

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

Junkpile.7439:

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

You are obviously very inexperienced when comes to thiefs ans engis.

vincecontix.1264:

Condi/perplex engi > thief.

I’ve run undead and antitoxin as well on my eng. You certainly don’t need perplexity on eng to kill a thief.

Junkpile.7439:

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

Eng can apply far more conds than the thief can clear with their 1 removed every 3s in stealth… and keep applying them while the thief is in stealth (lots of aoe).

As an ex thief player with over 1k hours on him, I have to say “good” engis were by far the class I feared the most while roaming. You are doing something wrong.

tAzz.8497:

http://www.youtube.com/user/IamMugi?feature=watch …

Learn to play the thief like Mugi and you’ll down 19 out of 20 thieves without breaking a sweat.

No l2p issue, just cheesbuilders who like cheese and can’t create a personalized build if their life depended on it.
Nothing more boring then attacking a enemy who is completely oblivious.
Nothing more boring then not having to worry about CD’s.

However: It’s totally rewarding if you get to down cheesebuilders.

Best way to beat cheese is bounceback. make them suicide trough spam, iow no offensive but wrap yourself in counters.. retal/blind/boonhate/kd/rupt etc.
works a charm if you have basic cheese..

however if you encounter ripened cheese you might have a problem ^^

It’s so easy to avoid thieves in wvw. If you are solo and see one coming, and don’t know how to fight them, just run away. If you are in a zerg, dont’ be just standing out there by yourself, stick with the group where thieves have a hard time surviving.

In general, pay attention! It’s been 8-9 months since I’ve been downed by a glass cannon thief, and I play every class there is, and I play quite a bit. Every time I’ve been downed by one of these, it was my fault, I immediately knew i had done something stupid to put myself into that situation.

There is no tanky builds in gw2. Only a dodge button, get used to it. Why do you think everyone ask for zerker gear except for wvw. The “pros” in my server always blame glasscannon players when we get wiped in wvw. I tell them why bother? I’m doing just perfect with these stats. Then ofcourse they respond with l2p kid or something.

Aberrant.6749:

vincecontix.1264:

Condi/perplex engi > thief.

I’ve run undead and antitoxin as well on my eng. You certainly don’t need perplexity on eng to kill a thief.

Junkpile.7439:

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

Eng can apply far more conds than the thief can clear with their 1 removed every 3s in stealth… and keep applying them while the thief is in stealth (lots of aoe).

Yea I agree, I meant condi engi in general beats thief and perplex engi is especially strong in 1v1.

tom.7468:

There is no tanky builds in gw2. Only a dodge button, get used to it. Why do you think everyone ask for zerker gear except for wvw. The “pros” in my server always blame glasscannon players when we get wiped in wvw. I tell them why bother? I’m doing just perfect with these stats. Then ofcourse they respond with l2p kid or something.

When it comes to wvw you wrong and your statement shows you have a complete lack of understanding of wvw combat. Players like you are a contributing factor of why a zerg or group would wipe and it sounds like those pros on your server are right.

I imagine that narrow minded player’s like you are most likely to come to forums and complain: I can’t kill so and so prof so it must be OP nerf! Instead trying to analyze you build and gameplay to see where you can impove.

Condi bunker engis are tied with shatter mesmers for the hardest fights a thief can get. If a bunker engi cannot beat a thief they just need more practice. It really should be an easy fight for them. Most thieves will just run at the first sighting of a bomb or grenade. Virtually none will engage around an engi elite.

Also thieves can burst about 5 conditions away and then they can drop 1 every 3 seconds while in stealth. This is well below what a condi bunker engi can apply.

spam aoe/condi and dazes, they will die before they can do anything

engi is only class that can easily and reliably kill any thief w/o problems; if you can’t, then it is certanly l2p issue

i personally avoid engis as much as possible since in 90% of the time i will lose the fight unless engi is complete noob
don’t belive me? check pvp forums

Junkpile.7439:

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

if they run SA and sit in stealth sure, they can remove condis but if they run SA they can’t backstab for 12k nor they do any dmg while sitting in stealth…. besides you won’t see thief have full HP after stealth simply because HiS heals for 30%-40% of HP, that is nowhere 100%

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

Straegen.2938:

Condi bunker engis are tied with shatter mesmers for the hardest fights a thief can get. If a bunker engi cannot beat a thief they just need more practice. It really should be an easy fight for them. Most thieves will just run at the first sighting of a bomb or grenade. Virtually none will engage around an engi elite.

Also thieves can burst about 5 conditions away and then they can drop 1 every 3 seconds while in stealth. This is well below what a condi bunker engi can apply.

Tell me more about how many good engi you see roaming in WvW….. Maybe 4/5 per server ?
So thieves have one hard fight a week ?

And thieves aren’t a 1vs1 class….. try to fight 3 crit thieves with 3 others players.
Stealth→ #5 #2 on one player → 3 vs 2 → repeat

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP → HS → backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

Cynz.9437:

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP -> HS -> backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

Hah a Thief with automatic targeting on is impossibly bad or anyone for that matter. If you are any close to the field he can hit you with the first Heartseeker and it doesn’t break stealth too. Half of your body is the front and the other half the back. Even if you spin randomly its a coin toss with the factoring of the Thief skill too.

At the first Backstab, I go Supply Crate-Net Shot-Overcharged Shot. That usually is enough to discourage the thief. If it isn’t, I stay near my Crate drop zone and bunker down. I main a rifle engi with over 3k armor and this strategy works most of the time. The only weakness is when my elixirs are on CD.
The highest Backstab crit hits I’ve gotten hit by have been in the 4-6k range using pvt armor/earth runes. This means I usually survive the initial burst, and sometimes that is enough for the thief to retreat.

glaphen.5230:

Cynz.9437:

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP -> HS -> backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

Hah a Thief with automatic targeting on is impossibly bad or anyone for that matter. If you are any close to the field he can hit you with the first Heartseeker and it doesn’t break stealth too. Half of your body is the front and the other half the back. Even if you spin randomly its a coin toss with the factoring of the Thief skill too.

it still works pretty well, outside of all utilities engi already has

just because i play thief myself doesn’t mean i don’t face them… and i rarely get hit by backstab unless i stand still… movement does really help if thief is already in stealth and you don’t have any aoe CCs or hard aoe dmg

i am still rather puzzled how he got hit for 12k though, i run mostly zerker on my thief i was never backstabbed for so high

Yes Engineers are one of the better classes against bad Thieves but good Thieves destroy anyone not built like a rock and can ignore anyone not. Highest mobility class has a hard time catching highest mobility class while movement is limited how surprising.

We have probably a 30/30 put 10 points some where over 100 crit damage hidden killer with assassins signet up. That is all it isn’t common but it’s still around. Not really problem it sucks but I wouldn’t say it is a problem.

They are the thieves that I have to be more careful of but I know they die quick the ones built with survivability in mind are much easier.

Obviously any Thief built with survivability is kittened for a power build. Its full berserkers if you go power and you still have immortality.

Learn to Dodge. Also, stun breaks.

My engi build doesn’t have any stunbreaks. I take first burst laika boss and then i run inside tower and use laugh emote because OP thief couldn’t kill me. I always try not to be alone if in www if i am not close tower or keep.

Yes, as a thief, I find three shotting very easy to do in this game.

Okay.. I don’t play anymore so I don’t know how things are atm, but my tactic was : Thief opens, i lose a ridiculous amount of health in 1 second, I pop that trait that makes both me and my pet immune to damage for 7 seconds, longbow #4 (knockback if I remember correctly), longbow#1 (with right trais should hit like a truck), then immediatelly sic’em. Thief can’t stealth for 4? seconds = dead thief.

(full berserker ranger)

Worked against 95% of ALL the thieves I encountered.

Dear Anet,

Please nerf Paper.
Scissors is fine.

Love, Rock.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Okay.. I don’t play anymore so I don’t know how things are atm, but my tactic was : Thief opens, i lose a ridiculous amount of health in 1 second, I pop that trait that makes both me and my pet immune to damage for 7 seconds, longbow #4 (knockback if I remember correctly), longbow#1 (with right trais should hit like a truck), then immediatelly sic’em. Thief can’t stealth for 4? seconds = dead thief.

(full berserker ranger)

Worked against 95% of ALL the thieves I encountered.

Say you seriously think that ALL YOUR HIT WILL LAND? You do know that thief can dodge your attack.
By the way, Once you get your “Protect me” up, the thief will re-stealth or port out and wait for the buff to end then come back and kill u.
This is like standard SOP for all the thieves I seem .
Needless to say, your advice won’t work.

PS: Longbow #1 at close range hit like wet noodle.

My advice is use GS 3 and get as much distance as possible , then RUN. Hopefully, he didn’t expect that.(Most of them don’t)
Staying and fighting against a full-hp thief with 30% hp left is suicide.

The reason Thieves in WvW are hitting this hard even on rather highly armoured targets is the massive power creep we have seen over the past year. Food, WXP ranks and now full ascended gear make for a very unhealthy mixture. No matter how good you play you cannot make a comback after a 12k Backstab.

Power creep has a huge impact already and I’m afraid we haven’t seen much yet. I fully understand the concerns of the OP and everyone who tries to derail this thread into a “OMG L2P NOOB” troll thread has clearly little understanding of what’s happening.