I actually agree that all classes should have way to deal with stealth.
All melee attack should have 33% chance to reveal by successful hit with a 15 sec CD baseline to every classes. You can feel it with a swing that hit something or hit air.
I actually agree that all classes should have way to deal with stealth.
All melee attack should have 33% chance to reveal by successful hit with a 15 sec CD baseline to every classes. You can feel it with a swing that hit something or hit air.
Good, then no class should have blocks – they wouldn’t need it anymore anyway, right? Let alone passive blocks.
People are asking that the ghost thief play by the rules every other class including other flavours of thief play by. You attack, you can be seen for a few seconds to allow countering, this is what the conversation is about, not nerfing thief because lol thief. It’s about principles, you should never be able to stay stealthed the whole time while attacking.
If you know so much about thief and have read the stuff I wrote in this thread (although you didn’t have to cause you already knew) : Thief is build around stealth – no other class is whether or not they have access to stealth. So if the rules of other classes should apply to thief then I want to be entirely independend of stealth as well – and even DrD is better with stealth access (every weapon is better with stealth, S/, D/, P/, staff, SB).
Hey, you started it with the remarks about me not knowing anything about thief, don’t give what you can’t take Jana.
There is also a world of difference between popping in and out of stealth between attacks like a D/P power thief does and staying in stealth permanently while still attacking.
To put it in a very simple and easy to understand question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
Apharma got it right: “Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?”
Nothing less nothing more then that. But seems people come here to blindy defend thinking people would like to destroy the whole teef class which is not the case.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
What on earth are you going on about? Caltrops aren’t traps, thought you mained thief, how do you not even know this? … Stop letting your personal feelings get in the way of what is obviously something that shouldn’t be allowed.
There is also a world of difference between popping in and out of stealth between attacks like a D/P power thief does and staying in stealth permanently while still attacking.
To put it in a very simple and easy to understand question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?
Apharma got it right: “Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?”
Nothing less nothing more then that. But seems people come here to blindy defend thinking people would like to destroy the whole teef class which is not the case.
And the same to you:
“Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?”
No offense, You know I like you, Babou, but really try to get what anet is doing to all thieves because of the endless whining of people who don’t know anything about how thief works.
Apharma got it right: “Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?”
Nothing less nothing more then that. But seems people come here to blindy defend thinking people would like to destroy the whole teef class which is not the case.
And the same to you:
“Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?”
No offense, You know I like you, Babou, but really try to get what anet is doing to all thieves because of the endless whining of people who don’t know anything about how thief works.
If the rune or mechanic is getting to ridicilous proportions then yes. I am trying to figure out what you trying to defend as you don’t run this particular teef build. People want to see this one gone and thats completely understandable, they are not saying to nerf teef to the ground cause its OP af.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
Really: If I had any trust in anet and their “balancing” – I would never respond to threads like these as I’d know that anet won’t bring all the ridiculous demands into game – but unfortunately they did and they do and that leaves me repeating the same stuff over and over while being insulted by people who are unable to read and comprehend.
If the rune or mechanic is getting to ridicilous proportions then yes. I am trying to figure out what you trying to defend as you don’t run this particular teef build. People want to see this one gone and thats completely understandable, they are not saying to nerf teef to the ground cause its OP af.
“I#m not running this build, so it doesn’t concern me, so let’s nerf thief because of a rune” – that might be true for all D/P thieves that’s why nothing but D/P is left.
Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?
With no mechanic to deal with invisibility, it is completely unfair to condi bomb other players while remain invisible and that must be addressed. In other MMOs that could be considered an exploit.
There is no other mechanic so broken in this game, Anet has to sell a trick\trap to counter it in wvw and that’s simply wrong.
Againts invisibility there is nothing realiable. No class can trait for that and when the thief get invisibility + extreme mobility + extreme evasion + almost immunity to CC + massive dps it has simply too much.
Invisibility should be addressed and most players are already fed up with this. Not only limit the amount of time the thief can stay invisible without revealed for some seconds, but also each and every single class should have an utility or trait to counter stealth reliably.
Thief already have a massive dps and ridiculous access to evades to not to need to focus only in stealth.
I TOLD YOU SO
Inverse to Apple: SBeast is the worst yet.. jurl jurl
I’m all in for Team Irenio!
With no mechanic to deal with invisibility, it is completely unfair to condi bomb other players while remain invisible and that must be addressed. In other MMOs that could be considered an exploit.
You have mechanics: AoE – it’s useless to tryy to do that to a trapper/ghost thief though but that has got more reasons than traps. And I already listed a few of them. The main damage is coming from caltrops, btw. I have no idea if it really is possible to be entirely stealthed without rune of the trapper.
Guess if it is, perma stealthed thieves would still be in game.
There is no other mechanic so broken in this game,
I can tell you what’s broken: “perma” blocks and passive blocks on top of that. Thieves aren’t invulnerable when in stealth. The -50 damage helps (if running SA) but that is a byproduct of anet messing SA up when they merged the traits.
Invisibility should be addressed and most players are already fed up with this. Not only limit the amount of time the thief can stay invisible without revealed for some seconds, but also each and every single class should have an utility or trait to counter stealth.
Thief already have a massive dps and ridiculous access to evades to not to need to focus only in stealth.
All other classes have got equal or more “DPS” than thief. A suggestion: play the game some more and then come again, ok? And also: try to play thief.
Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?
Dodging the question. Look no-one is asking for a mechanic to be nullified, people are asking for a targeted change which will stop 1 thing, a 100% stealth uptime damage build, from being in existence. The only thing this would do is allow for a window where the thief is not in stealth for players to either react or counter attack.
Stop with the straw man arguments, derailments, false assertions and answer the question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
Dodging the question. Look no-one is asking for a mechanic to be nullified, people are asking for a targeted change which will stop 1 thing, a 100% stealth uptime damage build, from being in existence.
What people don’t get that with that they would nullify a base mechanic of a class – that’s my point.
Stop with the straw man arguments, derailments, false assertions and answer the question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
You are talking as if perma stealth trapper would be the only playable thief build in the game …
Saying that direct dmg on traps nullify a thief’s class mechanic is like saying, cd on other classes weapon skills nullify their ability to use weapon skills …
Saying that direct dmg on traps nullify a thief’s class mechanic is like saying, cd on other classes weapon skills nullify their ability to use weapon skills …
It does nullify thief’s base mechanics for the duration of reveal – better?
Dodging the question. Look no-one is asking for a mechanic to be nullified, people are asking for a targeted change which will stop 1 thing, a 100% stealth uptime damage build, from being in existence.
What people don’t get that with that they would nullify a base mechanic of a class – that’s my point.
Stop with the straw man arguments, derailments, false assertions and answer the question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
No, I’m going to ignore you.
You avoid talking to me because you’re wrong a lot of the time, I point it out and then you do the mature thing of ignoring what you don’t like.
Case in point, above you make a snarky comment to another forum user about everyone doing more DPS than thief and they should learn to play more.
You are wrong, thief does more DPS than anything else except elementalist on large hit box targets, while elementalist does less on regular sized targets. Source.
No one is saying NERF TEEF OP! You run teef without this particular build so i am really puzzled about you defending this as this is the only viable build left for teefs.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
Saying that direct dmg on traps nullify a thief’s class mechanic is like saying, cd on other classes weapon skills nullify their ability to use weapon skills …
It does nullify thief’s base mechanics for the duration of reveal – better?
By that logic every thief weapon skill nullifies their base mechanics and they should always be allowed to remain in stealth.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
By that logic every thief weapon skill nullifies their base mechanics and they should always be allowed to remain in stealth.
Yes, there is a logic behind that: If I’m using stealth and backstab or any stealth related attack that reveals me it’s in my hand “I’m at 50% health, I can survive to be revealed”, if something like traps randomly reveals me without me having control over it it’s bad. If some other class has got reveal skills which also reveal me for a rather long time it’s also really bad as I have absolutely no control over that and often no means to pass the time until I can get my defensive stuff back.
You are wrong, thief does more DPS than anything else except elementalist on large hit box targets, while elementalist does less on regular sized targets. Source.
Permanent stealth is indeed annoying but far less game breaking then bunker builds, so before fixing the permastealth issue Anet better nerf all the cheesy bunker builds (its ok to be tanky, it is not ok to be tanky and deal good damage).
As a suggestion I would restrict might stacks depending on how much power a build have without them:
<= 1800 power: max 1 might stack (newly coming simply replace existing one if they are longer)
1900 – max 3 stacks
…
3000 – max 25 stacks (maximum possible)
By that logic every thief weapon skill nullifies their base mechanics and they should always be allowed to remain in stealth.
Yes, there is a logic behind that: If I’m using stealth and backstab or any stealth related attack that reveals me it’s in my hand “I’m at 50% health, I can survive to be revealed”, if something like traps randomly reveals me without me having control over it it’s bad. If some other class has got reveal skills which also reveal me for a rather long time it’s also really bad as I have absolutely no control over that and often no means to pass the time until I can get my defensive stuff back.
Not randomly using the skill is your control over it…..
It slightly raises the skill floor when using traps (which isn’t a bad thing), but if that’s too difficult for you to deal with you might suggest a secondary skill on those 2 traps that let you manually trigger them yourself. This way if you place them in an area and end up not using them you can pop them yourself and not randomly get revealed later.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
It slightly raises the skill floor when using traps (which isn’t a bad thing), but if that’s too difficult for you to deal with you might suggest a secondary skill on those 2 traps that let you manually trigger them yourself. This way if you place them in an area and end up not using them you can pop them yourself and not randomly get revealed later.
I wonder how much more you guys want to raise the skill floor for thief while lowering it for all other classes.
You are wrong, thief does more DPS than anything else except elementalist on large hit box targets, while elementalist does less on regular sized targets. Source.
DPS tests in PvE raids how nice!
Well if you’d like to provide a PvP DPS comparison from any kind of reputable source feel free to, until then my point stands. Thief does 10% more DPS than every single other build tested by them except for the niche elementalist on a large hitbox target.
jana no offense but to me it seems you spend more time on the forum than in the game and your comments reflect that
edit: im not monitoring your steps jana, its just that when i come to read a thread in the forum, your replies are there and mostly arent even worth reading, thats it
ghost thief is broken and should be somehow removed from the game, its not up to us to do it, its up to the dev team. we let them know its kittened up now its their turn to fix the kitten. thats how it should be done
It slightly raises the skill floor when using traps (which isn’t a bad thing), but if that’s too difficult for you to deal with you might suggest a secondary skill on those 2 traps that let you manually trigger them yourself. This way if you place them in an area and end up not using them you can pop them yourself and not randomly get revealed later.
I wonder how much more you guys want to raise the skill floor for thief while lowering it for all other classes.
If you bothered to read what I wrote I offered a suggestion that would work without making things too hard for you.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
ghost thief is broken and should be somehow removed from the game, its not up to us to do it, its up to the dev team. we let them know its kittened up now its their turn to fix the kitten. thats how it should be done
We had that on page 1 of this thread – the rest was always the same.
Most ghost thieves trait one trap that being needle. tripwire does not do a lot, caltrops is used in most builds and is not a trap. traiting SA with some combo of SR BP and HIS and lower cooldown on deceptions will get more stealth than trapper runes.
It will still exist without trappers as it can be played without trappers.
ETA: I haven’t tried it myself, so I’m not sure it works but I guess if it does (what I assume) “ghost thief” will still be in game, no matter if it’s with or without traps.
Only problem would be to get enough dodges and still keep trickery and SA and do decent condi damage.
Most ghost thieves trait one trap that being needle. tripwire does not do a lot, caltrops is used in most builds and is not a trap. traiting SA with some combo of SR BP and HIS and lower cooldown on deceptions will get more stealth than trapper runes.
It will still exist without trappers as it can be played without trappers.
ETA: I haven’t tried it myself, so I’m not sure it works but I guess if it does (what I assume) “ghost thief” will still be in game, no matter if it’s with or without traps.
Only problem would be to get enough dodges and still keep trickery and SA and do decent condi damage.
A thief could stay perma stealthed without the trap but they wouldn’t be able to kill anyone. They need the immobilize from needle trap to hold their opponents in place long enough to stack bleeds. This is why I’m suggesting adding direct damage to that trap.
To sum up this thread since you only seem to glance at the content before randomly attacking and arguing against things that no one wrote:
Trapper runes aren’t needed to make a ghost thief build, removing them solves nothing.
Adding direct damage to needle trap and tripwire would prevent a thief from remaining in stealth 100% of the time while fighting.
To prevent random reveals they would need to give those traps a second function that let you manually activate them
This completely solves the problem, it would allow them to improve on the traps since they would no longer be the cornerstone of a broken build, and it in no way “destroys thief”. If you are going to continue to argue please argue against those points and not some random thing you remember from another thread.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
This completely solves the problem, it would allow them to improve on the traps since they would no longer be the cornerstone of a broken build, and it in no way “destroys thief”. If you are going to continue to argue please argue against those points and not some random thing you remember from another thread.
I already did answer to “those point” – and I only remembered caltrops from anther thread – as I also know that caltrops (Edit: Uncatchable) are the main damage source of a “ghost thief”. Or better can be – I’m pretty sure a trap less build would work.
it will not be touched, simply put because the build is not game breaking and it can be countered with reveal (although revealing them is a different story) : in short trapper ghost thieves are nothing more then an annoyance. no, I do not run this or have i played it.
Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])
This completely solves the problem, it would allow them to improve on the traps since they would no longer be the cornerstone of a broken build, and it in no way “destroys thief”. If you are going to continue to argue please argue against those points and not some random thing you remember from another thread.
I already did answer to “those point” – and I only remembered caltrops from anther thread – as I also know that caltrops are the main damage source of a “ghost thief”.
You glanced over the thread again……
“They need the immobilize from needle trap to hold their opponents in place long enough to stack bleeds.”
I’m struggling to understand why you would be opposed to giving traps an overhaul to make them worthwhile outside of that 1 kittenty build?
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
I’m struggling to understand why you would be opposed to giving traps an overhaul to make them worthwhile outside of that 1 kittenty build?
Why are you defending bunker druids?
ETA: I hope you got my last point: I’m “defending trapper thieves” (which I don’t like as well, but I just leave them which must be very boring for them) because I don’t want my class to be nerfed because of bullkitten like this. And I’m honestly annoyed by all the incompetence when it comes to thief.
I’m struggling to understand why you would be opposed to giving traps an overhaul to make them worthwhile outside of that 1 kittenty build?
Why are you defending bunker druids?
ETA: I hope you got my last point: I’m “defending trapper thieves” (which I don’t like as well, but I just leave them which must be very boring for them) because I don’t want my class to be nerfed because of bullkitten like this. And I’m honestly annoyed by all the incompetence when it comes to thief.
Deflecting again smh….
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
Which is exactly what you are doing as you don’t get what I wrote the past 3 posts adressed to you
What do you expect: “Yes it would be great if traps had 2 buttons so I can activate them if I want them to do direct damage” which would be completely useless if this build works without traps – and I’m sure it does if it even works without rune of the trapper. So another useless nerf for thief and another “boohoo perma stealth thread” a few days afterwards.
Which is exactly what you are doing as you don’t get what I wrote the past 3 posts adressed to you
What do you expect: “Yes it would be great if traps had 2 buttons so I can activate them if I want them to do direct damage” which would be completely useless if this build works without traps – and I’m sure it does if it even works without rune of the trapper. So another useless nerf for thief and another “boohoo perma stealth thread” a few days afterwards.
The build doesn’t work without at least 1 trap… thats the whole reason it was targeted for a change in this thread.
For kittens sake man try to keep up…
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
The build doesn’t work without at least 1 trap… thats the whole reason it was targeted for a change in this thread.
For kittens sake man try to keep up…
She, btw, as my name indicates but alas there’s also girls named James.
Probably because no one has tried it. Like I said: I haven’t met a perma stealthed thief for serveral months now.
If “Ghost thief” works without rune of the trapper it also should work without traps at all, no matter what you say – it’s not that hard to dodge over someone even if they aren’t immobilized – condi D/D does that as well.
Basilisk Venom would break stealth for 3 seconds, yes. But most “ghost thieves” I met weren’t entirely stealthed anyway.. Still not enough time to catch them as they’re using D/P.
Having to reveal themselves to apply basi is exactly the same as our recommendation for the trap change. How can you be okay with 1 but not the other? Where is the logic in that?
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
Having to reveal themselves to apply basi is exactly the same as our recommendation for the trap change. How can you be okay with 1 but not the other? Where is the logic in that?
Alright, I’m trying to type slowly:
If I’m using a skill that reveals me on hit then it’s in my control.
If I had a trap that is triggered on demand, it would somehow destroy the purpose of traps and would also be useless if the “perma stealthed” thief works without any traps at all.
Now?
And btw: I care if I’m called he and man (although Heman is nice) all the time – I can call you she all the time if you like.
why are you even arguing over it lol? its a trash build thats only good for trolling and thats it.
It’s not being argued over because of it’s strength or weakness it is being argued over because of the principle of the build and the overarching question which I’m honestly surprised needs stating as plainly as this:
Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
why are you even arguing over it lol? its a trash build thats only good for trolling and thats it.
Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?
i actually couldn’t care because i dont worry about them, if i can get away i will, if im on a slow necro or something, well thats my problem i guess, i gave up careing months ago about the state of the game, i just accept it and do what i can.
Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])
Having to reveal themselves to apply basi is exactly the same as our recommendation for the trap change. How can you be okay with 1 but not the other? Where is the logic in that?
Alright, I’m trying to type slowly:
If I’m using a skill that reveals me on hit then it’s in my control.
If I had a trap that is triggered on demand, it would somehow destroy the purpose of traps and would also be useless if the “perma stealthed” thief works without any traps at all.
Now?
And btw: I care if I’m called he and man (although Heman is nice) all the time – I can call you she all the time if you like.
How would having the option to activate your own trap destroy it’s purpose? It would still work if someone walked over it, it just means you have the option to get rid of it if you placed it in a bad spot.
And there is a difference between perma stealth and ghost thief. Perma stealth isn’t going to be able to kill anyone. Even in your own example of a ghost thief without traps you couldn’t come up with an effective build without revealing yourself.
This is a targeted change that in no way hurts any other build and would actually give anet room to improve on the traps.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
