Guild Wars 2

Just gonna throw this out there about venoms.

1 venom share high condition damage/duration thief shares to
3-4 zerker trap DH’s
Optional condition ranger for extra lulz.

See venoms scale off the thieves stats even when shared to allies and they definitely proc off DH traps. Can condi and power bomb people by leaving traps in a tempting place for people to go. The only real waste is the thieves venoms tbh but the enemy is going to get spiked hard with conditions and power damage, it’s really funny to see people instapop to it.

Don’t worry I’ll see myself out before the rotten veg is thrown.

Karl McLain thinks it’s kittening hilarious. He’s laughing at YOU!

Yeah well, you guys got reveal skills because of D/P – use them? You could nerf the amount of stealth availlable instead but that would be too logical. And if you were at that you’d also could have a look at whether or not the stealth accessible to other classes is really justified.. but that would be logical too. So, let’s have some more on demand reveal skills everybody is too lazy to use.

OriOri.8724:

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Yes , and I have already pointed this out to others who advocate adding a damage component to all applications of damaging condtions.

This would make STEAL into a monster and still allow Ghost thief. (4 extra damage procs per steal for venom adds).

Even if there was a short window where said thief “reveal;ed” that thief can easily avoid further damage until they can stack stealth again even as that condition bomb takes away on the victim.

People are advocating for applying damaging conditions to cause reveal, not to add physical damage to conditions. I don’t know where you got that notion from.

More then one person has suggested adding a damage component both to traps and to damaging conditions so as to force a reveal when conditions applied. If you would read others posts besides your own you would recognize this.

You yourself still fail to acknowledge how this would affect builds such as power d/d , s/d P/d and other non Ghost Thief builds as youa advocate your solution to the problem a “solution” which is still a bad idea.

Your solution would make it harder yet for the non d/p builds to gain stealth. It my feeling the DEVS recognized this which is why they increased the ICD on their proposed sigil for PvP by 9 seconds.

Easy:
You run from every fight with a ghost thief when there is no objective that you are fighting for
He cant damage you then since he relies on you walking through his traps or staying inside his dmg aoes

If a ghost thief tries to take your camp though for example you can just run around and prevent him capping since he cant cap while stealthed

If you want to cap an enemy camp you can easily do it after killing the guards even with a ghost thief around since (again) he wont be able to prevent capping progress while stealthed

I wouldnt mind a nerf to ghost thief though since i can see how many people just see it as a stupidly cheesy annoying build
I dont think conditions themselves should reveal though since that would mess up Zerk builds too who apply poison with steal or condis with F2
But maybe Trap or caltrops get a direct dmg part added

babazhook.6805:

Yes , and I have already pointed this out to others who advocate adding a damage component to all applications of damaging condtions.

This would make STEAL into a monster and still allow Ghost thief. (4 extra damage procs per steal for venom adds).

It is not about adding dmg to the application of condis, it is adding dmg to skills that apply condis. Give steal small! dmg baseline and change mug to increase this dmg to its current level. Add dmg to traps like it was in the past. (Maybe buff/rework them in return to make them worth using in non-stealth builds). Add dmg to caltrops like they did with sb4. Ghost thief rekt. Other builds are barely affected by this change.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not about adding dmg to the application of condis, it is adding dmg to skills that apply condis.

As noted earlier, adding damage to a skill causes it to trip Venoms. Sure it might pop stealth but it will also apply a wicked amount of Poison and/or Torment in the right builds. Also, how would traps work. They cannot apply damage when they are used and if they apply damage when they are tripped, ouch Venom problem.

Adding reveals to Condi application is sort of OK but some skills such as traps would play VERY strange. Most stealth Mesmer builds wouldn’t work at all.

I keep circling the same solution… kill Stealth Stacking (and adjust some traits/skills as needed).

TehHobNob.4687:

It is frustrating getting hit by a party of ghost thieves as an acro staff thief.

The encounter usually goes something like this:
Get hit with 6+ condis, I then shadow return and signet to remove 6. Its not enough to remove the posion which is ticking for 2k+. Its the only thing left on me. Escapist’s absolution does nothing because why would they attack after applying condis?

Running more condi clear could be done. I could run dash instead or instead of instant reflexes run pain response. <— That is probably what I will do. Instant reflexes is so good for getting stomps and defense but more condi clear every 16 seconds hilariously might be worth it.

There’s a very simple solution to this.

Run a pocket guardian with you, they can clear conditions, heal you, give you stab, have access to light fields for more condi clears, and can stand in your place as a target dummy while you port away!

Orangensaft.7139:

Easy:
You run from every fight with a ghost thief when there is no objective that you are fighting for
He cant damage you then since he relies on you walking through his traps or staying inside his dmg aoes

That goes for any roaming. Ghost thief has mobility (and two longer duration immobilizes plus a knockdown), running isn’t all that easy until those are on cooldown.

Orangensaft.7139:

If a ghost thief tries to take your camp though for example you can just run around and prevent him capping since he cant cap while stealthed

If you want to cap an enemy camp you can easily do it after killing the guards even with a ghost thief around since (again) he wont be able to prevent capping progress while stealthed

It becomes a waiting game then. I frequently had multi-enemy player teams show up to guard a camp or dolyak and while they sat around and baby-sat, I went and tagged towers, keeps and killed sentries. Then circle back for the camp and dolyaks since no one sits around that long.

Artaz.3819:

Orangensaft.7139:

Easy:
You run from every fight with a ghost thief when there is no objective that you are fighting for
He cant damage you then since he relies on you walking through his traps or staying inside his dmg aoes

That goes for any roaming. Ghost thief has mobility (and two longer duration immobilizes plus a knockdown), running isn’t all that easy until those are on cooldown.

Orangensaft.7139:

If a ghost thief tries to take your camp though for example you can just run around and prevent him capping since he cant cap while stealthed

If you want to cap an enemy camp you can easily do it after killing the guards even with a ghost thief around since (again) he wont be able to prevent capping progress while stealthed

It becomes a waiting game then. I frequently had multi-enemy player teams show up to guard a camp or dolyak and while they sat around and baby-sat, I went and tagged towers, keeps and killed sentries. Then circle back for the camp and dolyaks since no one sits around that long.

If you’re roaming on a class with no mobility of its own, then you’re doing it wrong.

Xenesis.6389:

TehHobNob.4687:

It is frustrating getting hit by a party of ghost thieves as an acro staff thief.

The encounter usually goes something like this:
Get hit with 6+ condis, I then shadow return and signet to remove 6. Its not enough to remove the posion which is ticking for 2k+. Its the only thing left on me. Escapist’s absolution does nothing because why would they attack after applying condis?

Running more condi clear could be done. I could run dash instead or instead of instant reflexes run pain response. <— That is probably what I will do. Instant reflexes is so good for getting stomps and defense but more condi clear every 16 seconds hilariously might be worth it.

There’s a very simple solution to this.

Run a pocket guardian with you, they can clear conditions, heal you, give you stab, have access to light fields for more condi clears, and can stand in your place as a target dummy while you port away!

Thanks for the Stability boon Mr Guard, my Bountiful Theft loves that.

Guardian is hard because they all bring multi-condi cleanse but not impossible to condi burst down. It takes a couple of rounds (but if they stand there swinging for 30s, lol).

That’s the wrong class to use, it’s Warrior (Berserker’s Stance) or Mallyx Rev (Pain Absorption) that are basically impossible to kill without help unless they fall asleep since it’s all burst condi damage hard-countered by spammable Resistance boon. Other stealthies are also hard to bring down just due to disengage (but that goes for all classes trying to kill a stealthy).

Lahmia.2193:

Artaz.3819:

Orangensaft.7139:

Easy:
You run from every fight with a ghost thief when there is no objective that you are fighting for
He cant damage you then since he relies on you walking through his traps or staying inside his dmg aoes

That goes for any roaming. Ghost thief has mobility too (and also bring two longer duration immobilizes plus a knockdown), running isn’t all that easy for you until those are on cooldown.

Orangensaft.7139:

If a ghost thief tries to take your camp though for example you can just run around and prevent him capping since he cant cap while stealthed

If you want to cap an enemy camp you can easily do it after killing the guards even with a ghost thief around since (again) he wont be able to prevent capping progress while stealthed

It becomes a waiting game then. I frequently had multi-enemy player teams show up to guard a camp or dolyak and while they sat around and baby-sat, I went and tagged towers, keeps and killed sentries. Then circle back for the camp and dolyaks since no one sits around that long.

If you’re roaming on a class with no mobility of its own, then you’re doing it wrong.

You missed my point.

Also, if is this a discussion on disengage because absolutely nothing comes close to Ghost Thief on disengage. Nothing, no contest, no where. I can sit virtually anywhere that is 600 range away from you and you’ll only see the single Black Powder graphic after just one HS (no after cast on BP so impossible for to prevent) through it every 7-8s once to stay stealthed and with other stealth abilities, I can be invisible indefinitely. You probably won’t even notice the Black Powder graphic if I stand next to an object.

Straegen.2938:

As noted earlier, adding damage to a skill causes it to trip Venoms. Sure it might pop stealth but it will also apply a wicked amount of Poison and/or Torment in the right builds. Also, how would traps work. They cannot apply damage when they are used and if they apply damage when they are tripped, ouch Venom problem.

Adding reveals to Condi application is sort of OK but some skills such as traps would play VERY strange. Most stealth Mesmer builds wouldn’t work at all.

I keep circling the same solution… kill Stealth Stacking (and adjust some traits/skills as needed).

I don’t see an issue with venoms. A thief has already tons of ways to apply those, a few skills more won’t change anything. Traps would deal dmg on trigger, like ranger/dh’s traps do and thief’s traps used to do in the past. Nothing strange about it. Mesmer doesn’t has traps …

As one who has tried this build out, here are my observations playing it:

1. The most difficult to kill are tempests due to fast condi cleanses and Eye of the Storm shout for themselves and party members.
2. The most dangerous to try to kill are condi reapers due to their ability to send back conditions and their massive aoe, esp. chill.
3. The most risky in a group to target are those with reveal skills (herald, engis, dragonhunters), though alone they are killable.

That said, the easiest to kill are the others: mesmers have little condi cleanse, thieves can get away but often die while running away if enough condis hit, druids can cleanse a few times but eventually run out, warriors will die flailing away once their berserker stance is down.

The best way to kill the ghost trapper is cc. There is little mobility on this build with probably no stun breaks, so once they lose their ability to re-stealth, they are exposed.

The other way is to get them revealed. If you don’t have a stealth trap on you, try to find his black powder circle and encase it; inside and around it, trying to get him to accidently hit something. Remember he is using gear with 0 power, so it will hardly hurt getting hit. If you happen to get him to hit something after he’s jumped through a couple times, he’ll be out of initiative to get away or re-stealth, assuming he doesn’t have steal or shadow refuge ready.

The cooldown for the trap burst is about 20 seconds, so once they do their sequence, they have to re-stealth twice or use shadow refuge; this is your opportunity to nail them or run. If you are getting hit more often, then there is more than 1.

Like any fight, the worst thing you can do is stay in place (unless you are camping a reveal trap). Keep moving away from the minefield if you can’t fight it.

Dunno,i just think its pretty simple and would work if they add dmg to trap and trait which does 5 confu on steal.Ppl would still have problems with condie,which i understand but at least most of the grief from these sort of thieves would refocus back to condie hate in general.
If you look at WvW forum,these threads poping like mushrooms after rain,and i kinda agree its not healthy and its pretty ridiculous.Killing ppl while being stealthed,gosh,thats wrong.

This is definitely broken and what i find is funny and shows just how much Anet cares or doesn’t about its WvW community is that if this were sPvP and got this many complaints (as happened with minstrels, nomads and several other runes and stat sets that got removed within days of the complaints) it would have been fixed by now. My wife and i spend a ton of money on this game and 99% of the time i am in WvW. I don’t mind losing a fight. Heck I willingly jump into 3 v 1’s knowing that the outcome wont end well for me so this is not about losing a fight. Its about fair game play. I really wish someone would give me this build and point me in the direction of the few Anet employees that actual play WvW so they could be harassed with it as its users / customers are.

Straegen.2938:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not about adding dmg to the application of condis, it is adding dmg to skills that apply condis.

As noted earlier, adding damage to a skill causes it to trip Venoms. Sure it might pop stealth but it will also apply a wicked amount of Poison and/or Torment in the right builds. Also, how would traps work. They cannot apply damage when they are used and if they apply damage when they are tripped, ouch Venom problem.

Adding reveals to Condi application is sort of OK but some skills such as traps would play VERY strange. Most stealth Mesmer builds wouldn’t work at all.

I keep circling the same solution… kill Stealth Stacking (and adjust some traits/skills as needed).

its actually better for the target when the aggressor insta-loads condi stacks. remember when warrior sword torment originally got its torment? 1 stack per 2 secs over 10 secs. the skill was extremely problematic because it stacked so slowly and did so much damage that the target needed to use extra cleanses just to counter it. when they changed it to stacking per sec, offhand sword simply disappeared.

the only real issue with doing this same “nerf” on thief is that thief can burst out about 6 condi types, so allowing instant full venom damage while being covered by other condis is prolly not good for the game. but allowing instant venom dumps in and of itself isnt really an issue, its the opposite.

insanemaniac.2456:

Straegen.2938:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not about adding dmg to the application of condis, it is adding dmg to skills that apply condis.

As noted earlier, adding damage to a skill causes it to trip Venoms. Sure it might pop stealth but it will also apply a wicked amount of Poison and/or Torment in the right builds. Also, how would traps work. They cannot apply damage when they are used and if they apply damage when they are tripped, ouch Venom problem.

Adding reveals to Condi application is sort of OK but some skills such as traps would play VERY strange. Most stealth Mesmer builds wouldn’t work at all.

I keep circling the same solution… kill Stealth Stacking (and adjust some traits/skills as needed).

its actually better for the target when the aggressor insta-loads condi stacks. remember when warrior sword torment originally got its torment? 1 stack per 2 secs over 10 secs. the skill was extremely problematic because it stacked so slowly and did so much damage that the target needed to use extra cleanses just to counter it. when they changed it to stacking per sec, offhand sword simply disappeared.

the only real issue with doing this same “nerf” on thief is that thief can burst out about 6 condi types, so allowing instant full venom damage while being covered by other condis is prolly not good for the game. but allowing instant venom dumps in and of itself isnt really an issue, its the opposite.

This depends on the given situation at the time. I would suggest that if there only one thief perma stealthed in the area most people can handle the condi bombs and conditions that are put out.

If there two an all in one bomb works better with the two rotating, sharing BP for stealth and ensuring high uptime on venoms with share. Added to that these venoms multiply across other allies that might be in the area and that those others can apply the same, the source not revealed. Most Ghost Thiefs do not bother with venoms because they have no means to apply them. This change will give them one even as stealth maintained.

Shameless plug.

Funny video though.

Well… I guess ghosts kill lemmings. Go figure.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

when you get condi on you you teleport ASAP and not stay still if he killed 6 of you then was more than one or your build was power build without any condi remove.
Stealth Traps and some skill from engi and reverant works to get out from invis….. thief dont have big condi damage if you remove them and you have nice build.
Afterwall i saw thief die more often than a necro or elementalist or mesmers wich are light class.

This thief was downing heavys and medium classes within 2 seconds. You would see the red and then instantly be downed. You didnt even have time to react and i know that 2 of the people who went down are full ptv tanks.

We were able to avoid it most of the night if we were moving, but the general consensus was that he was hacking under the map since no one was ever able to target or attack him. We did see him once and his tag was [rush] but of course we couldnt do anything to report the toon.

We arent stupid.. the instant we see damage we react.. its not like we were just standing there letting him kill us. The problem was, there is no counter to it and he was downing someone and when we could try to res them, he would down another and another and another with no counter at all. Aoe’s, stealth traps, nothing seemed to work.

trueanimus.4085

This thief was downing heavys and medium classes within 2 seconds. You would see the red and then instantly be downed. You didnt even have time to react and i know that 2 of the people who went down are full ptv tanks.

We were able to avoid it most of the night if we were moving, but the general consensus was that he was hacking under the map since no one was ever able to target or attack him. We did see him once and his tag was [rush] but of course we couldnt do anything to report the toon.

We arent stupid.. the instant we see damage we react.. its not like we were just standing there letting him kill us. The problem was, there is no counter to it and he was downing someone and when we could try to res them, he would down another and another and another with no counter at all. Aoe’s, stealth traps, nothing seemed to work.

He most likely isn’t hacking. You should be able to see his small circle for Black Powder or his big Shadow Refuge house for his stealth sustain; usually these thieves try to hide it well.

Condition damage ignores toughness, so that’s why he melts people without enough cleanse. A full trap and caltrop burst can tick about 6k damage per second, so no amount of vitality will sustain that, except for maybe a necro.

The movement of the build is to run/steal in, lay traps, dodge out (more caltrops), steal back in (confusion), lay traps, dodge out, then move far enough away to re-stealth safely. So, if someone just took the entire burst, the thief probably isn’t standing close to them unless the player is downed, which is why you won’t hurt them. Plus they are probably using dire armor, so they can take a lot of damage.

CC and reveal skills are the answer.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t see an issue with venoms. A thief has already tons of ways to apply those, a few skills more won’t change anything. Traps would deal dmg on trigger, like ranger/dh’s traps do and thief’s traps used to do in the past. Nothing strange about it. Mesmer doesn’t has traps …

You really don’t understand how powerful venom can be if you believe this. Adding more poison, torment and basilisk on a trap would be an insane opener. Keep in mind traps go through blocks, two can be dropped near instantly. Add on Basilisk through a condi steal that cuts through blocks as well… yeah. Give me that build I will make you wish Ghost was back instead.

Venoms don’t become more powerful, just because they get applied by a trap instead of something else. Thief can already run venoms + traps, but nobody does it, because a thief is a free kill without any defensive utilities, unless he sits in stealth permanently. Which he can’t, if he wants to apply those venoms. With or without traps.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Venoms don’t become more powerful, just because they get applied by a trap instead of something else. Thief can already run venoms + traps, but nobody does it, because a thief is a free kill without any defensive utilities, unless he sits in stealth permanently. Which he can’t, if he wants to apply those venoms. With or without traps.

Not really. Run Dire/TB gear and as long as the thief isn’t actually clueless he should be able to survive the incoming damage from most players in a 2/3v1 scenario until he can stealth again.

Stealth stacking on all professions really needs to die, though.

Yeah I encountered a ghost thief too and it is unbalanced. One ghost thief (yes it was one), killed 9 of us then he revealed himself and started jumping lol. I don’t mean one of us came along one at a time, there were 9 of us bobbing and weaving yet the ghost thief 1v9 us… and he won lol. Say whaaaaaat? The ghost thief appeared again later picking off zerg tail. Zerg was capping a control point and the ghost thief was jumping a tad out of range, taunting us. Pretty sad when a zerg’s only option is to ignore him. FYI, I was a mythril Herald and actually said no way he’s gonna kill me. I got this…wrong! lol Only one reveal but it was useless since it has short range. No, I shouldn’t need the help of a purchasable WVW stealth reveal to be useful. No doubt that biased thieves will respond with, “Maybe don’t get hit. Maybe get gud at running away. Maybe hit skill 1 to land a lucky hit. Maybe just ignore him in a game that is designed for combat. Maybe ask the zerg for help. Maybe wait it out and the thief will maybe hit you. Maybe switch toons and hope for the best. Maybe just hit me ‘cause I’m fragile…even though I just soloed your squad and you can’t hit me back…um, ok, forget I just said that. Maybe give all classes stealth, um, wait, no don’t do that ‘cause then I won’t be able to target you. Where was I? Maybe…” Yeah yeah ’cause all that makes sense…

Great game but unbalanced. Ghost thief trapper wasn’t the craziest I’ve seen. A ghost thief pistol kills you almost instantly. Shoot twice and you should be dead. Shoot > Shoot > Stealth if foe isn’t dead > Shoot. Can’t fight back if you can’t target even though reflects help, not all classes have reflect. There are some videos that show it and it’s been around a while but still used in WVW for instakills. Same goes for the ghost mesmer greatsword that does an instakill. I have 25k health and I was like wtf just killed me and the auto crystal hibernation at low health didn’t activate. I don’t get how Anet doesn’t have a problem nerfing some things but allows stuff like this to continue. What was the response for nerfing the Dragonhunter trapper, we nerfed it because it was very difficult to counter. Hmm, interesting…

phoenixwil.6071:

. FYI, I was a mythril Herald and actually said no way he’s gonna kill me.

As a Herald/Mallyx myself, I’m actually one of the few classes completely immune to ghost thief. Wait for the burst, then hit pain absorption and I have 12+secs of resistance. The trick is don’t heal unless you need to in case the thief strips resistance with steal. In that case, you simply reapply pain absorption. Just let your energy build up and you can freely /dance, /laugh or help your group out by pulling conditions. you can tick heal with both shield 4 and 5. Granted I’m virtually 100% boon duration(97-99%) a standard durability rune herald should fare just as well.

edit: I didn’t build my rev to be immune to ghost thief, it was just a side effect. My goal was to build a group, anti-condi class to help the commander/front line. Here’s the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8un3geNSuQvJRboJlsP0jS4I6SJ4EtrkFNFyugJshtDIARIdDfIFA-TFDEQBP4gAwgHAABV6Fv9HAwFAIjKBp20jBq+QEOCAMUZA70NwPVYAA-w

phoenixwil.6071:

Yeah I encountered a ghost thief too and it is unbalanced. One ghost thief (yes it was one), killed 9 of us then he revealed himself and started jumping lol. I don’t mean one of us came along one at a time, there were 9 of us bobbing and weaving yet the ghost thief 1v9 us… and he won lol. Say whaaaaaat? The ghost thief appeared again later picking off zerg tail. Zerg was capping a control point and the ghost thief was jumping a tad out of range, taunting us. Pretty sad when a zerg’s only option is to ignore him. FYI, I was a mythril Herald and actually said no way he’s gonna kill me. I got this…wrong! lol Only one reveal but it was useless since it has short range. No, I shouldn’t need the help of a purchasable WVW stealth reveal to be useful. No doubt that biased thieves will respond with, “Maybe don’t get hit. Maybe get gud at running away. Maybe hit skill 1 to land a lucky hit. Maybe just ignore him in a game that is designed for combat. Maybe ask the zerg for help. Maybe wait it out and the thief will maybe hit you. Maybe switch toons and hope for the best. Maybe just hit me ‘cause I’m fragile…even though I just soloed your squad and you can’t hit me back…um, ok, forget I just said that. Maybe give all classes stealth, um, wait, no don’t do that ‘cause then I won’t be able to target you. Where was I? Maybe…” Yeah yeah ’cause all that makes sense…

Great game but unbalanced. Ghost thief trapper wasn’t the craziest I’ve seen. A ghost thief pistol kills you almost instantly. Shoot twice and you should be dead. Shoot > Shoot > Stealth if foe isn’t dead > Shoot. Can’t fight back if you can’t target even though reflects help, not all classes have reflect. There are some videos that show it and it’s been around a while but still used in WVW for instakills. Same goes for the ghost mesmer greatsword that does an instakill. I have 25k health and I was like wtf just killed me and the auto crystal hibernation at low health didn’t activate. I don’t get how Anet doesn’t have a problem nerfing some things but allows stuff like this to continue. What was the response for nerfing the Dragonhunter trapper, we nerfed it because it was very difficult to counter. Hmm, interesting…

If it was truly 1 ghost thief vs 9 of you that’s a serious L2P issue, I know Roaming on my Burn Guard I am able to easily kill a Solo Ghost Thief, when 2 are involved it becomes a hassle.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Venoms don’t become more powerful, just because they get applied by a trap instead of something else. Thief can already run venoms + traps, but nobody does it, because a thief is a free kill without any defensive utilities, unless he sits in stealth permanently. Which he can’t, if he wants to apply those venoms. With or without traps.

They absolutely do become more powerful. The biggest advantage is that the trap is triggered independently from its cooldown. So I can drop a trap, wait for a player to get close, activate a series of venoms, player hits trap, venoms apply, steal to player for confusion/poison/more venom, drop same trap again with more venom because it has been off cooldown for a while, heal for another trap with venom and apply rune condi.

All that happens before I have to do the first counter. The next counter is going to be dodging (more venom) and using SB evade. If it goes sideways, Shadowstep.

In about 25s, I will be ready for another full rotation with virtually no chance any harm comes to me. It doesn’t kill a player from stealth, but its application is significantly higher.

I’ll take “what is reveal” for 500

BlaqueFyre.5678:

phoenixwil.6071:

Yeah I encountered a ghost thief too and it is unbalanced. One ghost thief (yes it was one), killed 9 of us then he revealed himself and started jumping lol. I don’t mean one of us came along one at a time, there were 9 of us bobbing and weaving yet the ghost thief 1v9 us… and he won lol. Say whaaaaaat? The ghost thief appeared again later picking off zerg tail. Zerg was capping a control point and the ghost thief was jumping a tad out of range, taunting us. Pretty sad when a zerg’s only option is to ignore him. FYI, I was a mythril Herald and actually said no way he’s gonna kill me. I got this…wrong! lol Only one reveal but it was useless since it has short range. No, I shouldn’t need the help of a purchasable WVW stealth reveal to be useful. No doubt that biased thieves will respond with, “Maybe don’t get hit. Maybe get gud at running away. Maybe hit skill 1 to land a lucky hit. Maybe just ignore him in a game that is designed for combat. Maybe ask the zerg for help. Maybe wait it out and the thief will maybe hit you. Maybe switch toons and hope for the best. Maybe just hit me ‘cause I’m fragile…even though I just soloed your squad and you can’t hit me back…um, ok, forget I just said that. Maybe give all classes stealth, um, wait, no don’t do that ‘cause then I won’t be able to target you. Where was I? Maybe…” Yeah yeah ’cause all that makes sense…

Great game but unbalanced. Ghost thief trapper wasn’t the craziest I’ve seen. A ghost thief pistol kills you almost instantly. Shoot twice and you should be dead. Shoot > Shoot > Stealth if foe isn’t dead > Shoot. Can’t fight back if you can’t target even though reflects help, not all classes have reflect. There are some videos that show it and it’s been around a while but still used in WVW for instakills. Same goes for the ghost mesmer greatsword that does an instakill. I have 25k health and I was like wtf just killed me and the auto crystal hibernation at low health didn’t activate. I don’t get how Anet doesn’t have a problem nerfing some things but allows stuff like this to continue. What was the response for nerfing the Dragonhunter trapper, we nerfed it because it was very difficult to counter. Hmm, interesting…

If it was truly 1 ghost thief vs 9 of you that’s a serious L2P issue, I know Roaming on my Burn Guard I am able to easily kill a Solo Ghost Thief, when 2 are involved it becomes a hassle.

If true, I am sure it wasn’t 1 ghost thief. 3-4 ghost thieves working in tandem (voice comm not even really required) is unbelievably overpowered especially if there is no hyper-save me Mallyx Rev nearby (still not invincible since you can chain daze/knockdown the Rev on called target). There is basically no way to tell how many ghost thieves there are except by how many condi stacks appear. Don’t even think about rezzing your teammates.

There is a thread on reddit about a guild in Europe running ghost thief groups…lol, it’s now out of hand.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If it was truly 1 ghost thief vs 9 of you that’s a serious L2P issue, I know Roaming on my Burn Guard I am able to easily kill a Solo Ghost Thief, when 2 are involved it becomes a hassle.

In fairness you are probably playing one of the most OP builds in the game right now. Not every build has access to Guardian-level condi removal, strong burst, solid condi damage and high defensive rotation in one package.

Straegen.2938:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If it was truly 1 ghost thief vs 9 of you that’s a serious L2P issue, I know Roaming on my Burn Guard I am able to easily kill a Solo Ghost Thief, when 2 are involved it becomes a hassle.

In fairness you are probably playing one of the most OP builds in the game right now. Not every build has access to Guardian-level condi removal, strong burst, solid condi damage and high defensive rotation in one package.

Burn guards are not necessary super easy to kill on ghost thief (multi condi cleanse ones) but they are absolutely nothing to worry about because they only have 1 primary damage condition and you run Shadow’s Embrace plus also have RoS in Dire/Trailblazer gear.

I can’t recall ever falling over from a guardian and it sure wasn’t because of burn condi.

Example, Putrid Mark + Reaper’s Mark and full condi consume heal with a huge double health pool is actually better than anything a Guard could dish out to a ghost thief. And because that can’t be spammed is still laughably easy to avoid.

Artaz.3819:

Burn guards are not necessary super easy to kill on ghost thief (multi condi cleanse ones) but they are absolutely nothing to worry about because they only have 1 primary damage condition and you run Shadow’s Embrace plus also have RoS in Dire/Trailblazer gear.

I can’t recall ever falling over from a guardian and it sure wasn’t because of burn condi.

Depends on the variant. Blow up burn DH uses 1-2 traps and power attacks to crack anything within melee range of it. The burn portion is more of a finisher as well as constantly applied as pressure and while in melee range cannot be easily cleared as it constantly applies. Not all burn builds are the same but the ones that drop trap and symbol can easily blow up a Ghost Thief particularly if they get caught by an AoE.

Straegen.2938:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If it was truly 1 ghost thief vs 9 of you that’s a serious L2P issue, I know Roaming on my Burn Guard I am able to easily kill a Solo Ghost Thief, when 2 are involved it becomes a hassle.

In fairness you are probably playing one of the most OP builds in the game right now. Not every build has access to Guardian-level condi removal, strong burst, solid condi damage and high defensive rotation in one package.

High defensive Rotation? Ghost Thief Condi application is all unblockable so bypasses all Guardian defenses, And only have two Condi Cleanses from wings of Resolve and Purifying Flames with this build that isn’t even optimized besides providing large Burst damage.

It isn’t OP against Ghost Thieves o any class with Condi clears.

Yes all gear on this alt is Exotic

BlaqueFyre.5678:

High defensive Rotation? Ghost Thief Condi application is all unblockable so bypasses all Guardian defenses

In your build the GS has built in condi clears. Also if the player takes Renewed Focus their rotational defense gets significantly better. If a DH knows a Ghost is around swap out to Light’s Judgement.

As for your specific build, that is a pure burn build not a DH Blow Up build which often runs Viper.

Straegen.2938:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

High defensive Rotation? Ghost Thief Condi application is all unblockable so bypasses all Guardian defenses

In your build the GS has built in condi clears. Also if the player takes Renewed Focus their rotational defense gets significantly better. If a DH knows a Ghost is around swap out to Light’s Judgement.

As for your specific build, that is a pure burn build not a DH Blow Up build which often runs Viper.

Too bad the combo field whirler isn’t much of a Condi Clear when it doesn’t cleanse the Guardian.

Did I say it was a DH Blow Up build? Nope, I said my Burn Guard build that is bursty, which it is I can stack well over 15-20 stacks of Burn in the initial opening.

And again I have no issues with 1-2 Ghost Thieves on this build I run, but by no means is it OP or vey defensive since majority of traits are damaging traits and all damaging Utilities. The reason I don’t have issues with Ghost Thieves is because I don’t need to have a target, if they attack me I can instantly cleanse the initial Burst and then drop all my AoEs and let them kill themselves while I sit in the middle of my AoEs and if that doesn’t kill them I start kiting

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It isn’t OP against Ghost Thieves

Can you imagine what the game would be like if everybody was on ghost thief builds?

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It isn’t OP against Ghost Thieves

Can you imagine what the game would be like if everybody was on ghost thief builds?

I got ya back on this one, you need to go without this riveting action.

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It isn’t OP against Ghost Thieves

Can you imagine what the game would be like if everybody was on ghost thief builds?

You mean a relatively easy time? Majority of the players in this game are very bad and most would probably be even worse on ghost thief since it requires Proper resource management to maintain stealth and ensure it’s burst lands, when the majority of players have to rely on Passives defenses to carry them.

The only time I have problems against Ghost Thieves is when there is more than 2, legitimately my build is pretty crap since. Any competent player can negate the majority of my damage, yet it is easy to kill the non OP Ghost Theif Build.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Did I say it was a DH Blow Up build? Nope, I said my Burn Guard build that is bursty, which it is I can stack well over 15-20 stacks of Burn in the initial opening.

Back to my point, most classes cannot do a thing to a Ghost Thief other than run away (and not all can do that). Telling others to L2P when you are running one of the strongest meta builds in the game right now is silly.

Also “bursty” implies power which on a DH Burn build typically means Viper. Viper is also meta on DH right now because DH has… wait for it… high rotational defense (as in block/invuln up time better than any other class in the game).

Straegen.2938:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Did I say it was a DH Blow Up build? Nope, I said my Burn Guard build that is bursty, which it is I can stack well over 15-20 stacks of Burn in the initial opening.

Back to my point, most classes cannot do a thing to a Ghost Thief other than run away (and not all can do that). Telling others to L2P when you are running one of the strongest meta builds in the game right now is silly.

Also “bursty” implies power which on a DH Burn build typically means Viper. Viper is also meta on DH right now because DH has… wait for it… high rotational defense (as in block/invuln up time better than any other class in the game).

Sorry but bursty just mean a burst of damage in a short amount of time which is capable of doing with Burns and other Condis, Power damage is not the only thing that can be burst damage.

And again The Ghost Thief bypasses all of The DHs rotational defenses since you know all the main damaging skills used are unblockable, and limited 2 Condi Clear with the build I use, which is the one I linked.

Again this Guardian build is not OP against Ghost thief since you know Ghost Thief is able to bypass almost all defenses of Guardian and has ample Condis Clear while Stealthed.

But I forgot GS has a “self Condi Clear” built in….

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only time I have problems against Ghost Thieves is when there is more than 2, legitimately my build is pretty crap since. Any competent player can negate the majority of my damage, yet it is easy to kill the non OP Ghost Theif Build.

How would you ever know? Certainly not by looking at the laughably inadequate combat log!

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only time I have problems against Ghost Thieves is when there is more than 2, legitimately my build is pretty crap since. Any competent player can negate the majority of my damage, yet it is easy to kill the non OP Ghost Theif Build.

How would you ever know? Certainly not by looking at the laughably inadequate combat log!

Not really, lots of things tell you when there are multiples, the amount of Condis applied to you, the frequency at which the Burst are applied and the magical thing called downing the enemy Ghost a thief and seeing there body in the downed state, I know the majority of players have issues with achieveing that last one especially if you believe people when they say 1 Ghost thief can kill 9 players at once.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

[..]the magical thing called downing the enemy Ghost a thief and seeing there body in the downed state, I know the majority of players have issues with achieveing that last one especially if you believe people when they say 1 Ghost thief can kill 9 players at once.

That seems, to me, like a silly thing to say.

You can’t blame players for being destroyed by the invisible boy who makes it impossible for them to move while pinging them down with abilities which they can’t even research a counter to because nobody can see what they were in the combat log. Neither “combatant”, thief nor victim, is becoming a better player here.

That’s Arenanet’s fault.

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

[..]the magical thing called downing the enemy Ghost a thief and seeing there body in the downed state, I know the majority of players have issues with achieveing that last one especially if you believe people when they say 1 Ghost thief can kill 9 players at once.

That seems, to me, like a silly thing to say.

You can’t blame players for being destroyed by the invisible boy who makes it impossible for them to move while pinging them down with abilities which they can’t even research a counter to because nobody can see what they were in the combat log. Neither “combatant”, thief nor victim, is becoming a better player here.

That’s Arenanet’s fault.

Yeah feels bad for 9 players being Burst down 1 by one every 20-25 seconds single target, if only there were skills that did damage in decently large areas without needing a target, or skills that cleanse conditions on players and their nearby allies, or skills/items that Reveal Stealthed players without needing a target……

Yes it’s a stupid gameplay mechanic, yes it shouldn’t exist but saying there is no way to fight against it is a big lie, and 9 players vs 1 that Thief should have been dead, so yes it’s a L2P issue.

I’ll take taunt for 5000 Alex.

Imagine if Sentries (the ones that causes the orange dots regardless if you are stealthed or not) revealed players (cause sentries know they are there…i mean…hello… Orange dots). That would make them more valuable when fighting them (I use em for the dots atm…helps a bit)

apharma.3741:

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It isn’t OP against Ghost Thieves

Can you imagine what the game would be like if everybody was on ghost thief builds?

I got ya back on this one, you need to go without this riveting action.

LOL that crack me the hell up, thanks for that XD

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Imagine if Sentries (the ones that causes the orange dots regardless if you are stealthed or not) revealed players (cause sentries know they are there…i mean…hello… Orange dots). That would make them more valuable when fighting them (I use em for the dots atm…helps a bit)

If we went with that route I think it would only make sense to have each group of guards at upgraded objectives have a new guard that reveals players as well. This would reveal any roaming classes in stealth, while also presenting a clear target for them to take out if they didn’t want to be revealed.