Guild Wars 2

Temporary? So… they will be buried deep down in the glicko hole the week after that again if they dont make any movement next week?

Dont quite understand that part.

Honestly, I think that t4 should just get phazed out. It is an entire grade below what the other tiers have to offer. People still place regualr acs on the front side of the wall like it is the correct way to place siege. I think merging all of those people into better environments would improve their experience.

Honestly, I think that t4 should just get phazed out. It is an entire grade below what the other tiers have to offer. People still place regular acs on the front side of the wall without realizing that everyone can hit it and that it is totally useless. I think merging all of those people into better environments would improve their experience and help them learn (I moved to Eredon Terrace for several weeks, so this is my personal experience).

Do any players even exist anymore in t4?

With the cost to transfer to T1 currently being 500 gems to join the “winning team”, I would not be surprised if the only inhabitants there are crickets and tumbleweed.

Most of the nuthug fail guilds transferred to t1 already. T4 is just ripe with lolli gaggers that don’t really care about siege placement, over time PPT, map politic, etc. Otherwise, a handful of the t2-4 guilds would give more than half the guilds in t1 a run for their money.

shiri.4257:

Most of the nuthug fail guilds transferred to t1 already. T4 is just ripe with lolli gaggers that don’t really care about siege placement, over time PPT, map politic, etc. Otherwise, a handful of the t2-4 guilds would give more than half the guilds in t1 a run for their money.

Yeah this. Most of us are just bored and roaming. Still some good guilds even in T4 though. They are just in hibernation atm because there’s no reason to get serious.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Do any players even exist anymore in t4?

With the cost to transfer to T1 currently being 500 gems to join the “winning team”, I would not be surprised if the only inhabitants there are crickets and tumbleweed.

CD has queues most nights for hours on EBG. This pairing shouldn’t have a chance to move up, they should move up. If they (we) cannot hold their own in T3, they should enjoy being the kitten in that tier for a while.

I don’t think anyone is enjoying the T4 match outside of K-Train players.

Another option is to pair BP back with FA since T3 seems to be well balanced right now. That would boost pop a bit in T2 and reduce some of the CD dominance.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Do any players even exist anymore in t4?

With the cost to transfer to T1 currently being 500 gems to join the “winning team”, I would not be surprised if the only inhabitants there are crickets and tumbleweed.

I moved here to T4 to join an ole friend. It’s ok for the most part, CD is pretty large and has better coverage and dominates this tier. But there is surprisingly action here in the evening with some decent fights. Roaming is decent, lot of small teams as in 2-4 man roamers. Some solo fights. Seeing some old guilds as well come out and play once in awhile. Wish I could see that more but given the boring state of wvw it’s expected.

The lag ain’t so bad as well LOL

I have zero desire to join T1. No thanks.

Straegen.2938:

Another option is to pair BP back with FA since T3 seems to be well balanced right now. That would boost pop a bit in T2 and reduce some of the CD dominance.

No, just gtfo of the tier already.
kthxbye.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hello everyone,

As Chris mentioned last week here, we are going to be manually adjusting Glicko ratings during tomorrows reset for the purpose of improving matchmaking. We will be temporarily adjusting Crystal Desert, Sorrow’s Furnace, and Darkhaven rating by +200,

In the interests of transparency how was this value decided?

And seeing as how you are forced to resort to this will the upcoming scoring changes feature a change to the way glicko works to provide more volatility in matchmaking?

morrolan.9608:

In the interests of transparency how was this value decided?

And seeing as how you are forced to resort to this will the upcoming scoring changes feature a change to the way glicko works to provide more volatility in matchmaking?

Honestly, I think they just threw a dice and said “oh, I think that’s close enough”.

Now about the glicko stuff, I think they said somewhere in that CD thread that they intent to make a pool about reseting glicko ratings.

Jeknar.6184:

morrolan.9608:

In the interests of transparency how was this value decided?

And seeing as how you are forced to resort to this will the upcoming scoring changes feature a change to the way glicko works to provide more volatility in matchmaking?

Honestly, I think they just threw a dice and said “oh, I think that’s close enough”.

Now about the glicko stuff, I think they said somewhere in that CD thread that they intent to make a pool about reseting glicko ratings.

I don’t mean just a reset, anet’s variation of glicko does not work.

I am personally a believer that glicko should just be reset at the re-link. But if glicko isn’t going to be reset, then I think rating adjustments would be most sensible if done right at the re-linking. You could have a pre-determined rating that is given to each home server at the start of the next linking based on how well they did under the current linking. For example, the server that ended up with the highest rating under the current link will also start with the highest rating when re-linked.

right about to re-link
num 1 rated home server under current link = rating changed to 2000 at next re-link
num 2 rated home server under current link = rating changed to 1970 at next re-link
num 3 rated home server under current link = rating changed to 1940 at next re-link
num 4 rated home server under current link = rating changed to 1910 at next re-link
.
.
.
num 12 rated home server under current link = rating changed to 1670 at next re-link

morrolan.9608:

Jeknar.6184:

morrolan.9608:

In the interests of transparency how was this value decided?

And seeing as how you are forced to resort to this will the upcoming scoring changes feature a change to the way glicko works to provide more volatility in matchmaking?

Honestly, I think they just threw a dice and said “oh, I think that’s close enough”.

Now about the glicko stuff, I think they said somewhere in that CD thread that they intent to make a pool about reseting glicko ratings.

I don’t mean just a reset, anet’s variation of glicko does not work.

With a glicko reset at every pairing change, I’m pretty sure we’ll have a lot of varierity and the matches won’t get stale until close to end the pairings. It’s a good change imo.

Of course, I’m just theorizing that…

So how badly does dh have to lose, and for how many weeks to drop down a tier?

:)_))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No im being srs this isn’t funny. Help us plz. u keep promising to send emergency aid. Each week we look at the sky and wonder how many more of our comrades will fall sick and leave this world behind. The guy next to me is gone alrdy, the one to my right lost his legs but is still twitching his fingers a bit. You must help us, before we all leave this world behind. DarkBay lives matter.

Cerby.1069:

So how badly does dh have to lose, and for how many weeks to drop down a tier?

:)_))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No im being srs this isn’t funny. Help us plz. u keep promising to send emergency aid. Each week we look at the sky and wonder how many more of our comrades will fall sick and leave this world behind. The guy next to me is gone alrdy, the one to my right lost his legs but is still twitching his fingers a bit. You must help us, before we all leave this world behind. DarkBay lives matter.

I never realized but why does CD have so many servers on their side? Shouldn’t anet distribute one to DBay?

How long are you going to avoid server merges? That’s what was needed since a year ago. There are too many servers for the existing WvW population.

Also I think it’s about time to get rid of glicko completely. It has been proven that this can be manipulated by players, just look at the T1/T2 mess within the past year for an example. Time to stop the glicko mess and have some active devs that watch, and participate in these WvW activities to know what servers should go up & what servers should go down.

Anet so hate Darkhaven ? take 2-3 days watch T4 all timezone anet

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/

tobee.1567:

Anet so hate Darkhaven ? take 2-3 days watch T4 all timezone anet

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/

Careful, the very glance of statistics or facts blows anet devs optic nerve right out of their skull.

gavyne.6847:

How long are you going to avoid server merges? That’s what was needed since a year ago. There are too many servers for the existing WvW population.

That’s been mentioned repeatedly. And lowest-pops didn’t want to lose their identities. So we got linkings. And now some of them are nothing but a + next to their higher tier links.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Tier 3
• Yak’s Bend: 1,864
• Stormbluff Isle: 1,765
• Sea of Sorrows: 1,770

Tier 4
• Crystal Desert: 1,519 + 200 = 1,719
• Sorrow’s Furnace: 1,414 + 200 = 1,614
• Darkhaven: 1,343 + 200 = 1,543

Your tier 3 glicko ratings are from last week, I sure as hell hope you’re going to use our glicko ratings at the end of this week.

Skynet.7201:

gavyne.6847:

How long are you going to avoid server merges? That’s what was needed since a year ago. There are too many servers for the existing WvW population.

That’s been mentioned repeatedly. And lowest-pops didn’t want to lose their identities. So we got linkings. And now some of them are nothing but a + next to their higher tier links.

Thats the point linkages were done so badly that what we have is effective server merges, which just goes to show that server identity was never that important but anet couldn’t see it. We have quite a few people on JQ now who transferred from IOJ after our link and I know some from AR that want to transfer to JQ as well if we open up again.

I know other game developers have psychologists on staff to help the developers actually discern what is important to their players and how they play, as opposed to what the players say is important which is often not what they mean. I wouldn’t mind betting anet doesn’t have any such position or if they do certainly they aren’t looking at WvW players.

When IOJ unlinks, the server it gets linked with will be a hot mess. Just like when ET got linked. There were probably more ET guilds that were there for T1 than Bp/Kn/Cd individually or maybe even 2/3 of them. IOJ as we speak probably has more guilds than T4 servers and perhaps some T3 individually with all the transfers inc.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Cerby.1069:

So how badly does dh have to lose, and for how many weeks to drop down a tier?

:)_))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No im being srs this isn’t funny. Help us plz. u keep promising to send emergency aid. Each week we look at the sky and wonder how many more of our comrades will fall sick and leave this world behind. The guy next to me is gone alrdy, the one to my right lost his legs but is still twitching his fingers a bit. You must help us, before we all leave this world behind. DarkBay lives matter.

I never realized but why does CD have so many servers on their side? Shouldn’t anet distribute one to DBay?

It has been asked why is it so important to focus on CD yet their are paired with 3 other servers. The last couple of weeks it has been an amazing 2 v 3 v 4 fight and they wonder why people are not participating or leaving.

One could try and spin it that DH and Ebay are that good but the reality is, they are actually pretty good those that are left, but the pair of servers are failing every week because they are constantly out numbered.

Free repairs are nice, but come on…who on CD works for Arena Net or washing their cars, or doing other stuff to earn favors.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Cerby.1069:

So how badly does dh have to lose, and for how many weeks to drop down a tier?

:)_))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

No im being srs this isn’t funny. Help us plz. u keep promising to send emergency aid. Each week we look at the sky and wonder how many more of our comrades will fall sick and leave this world behind. The guy next to me is gone alrdy, the one to my right lost his legs but is still twitching his fingers a bit. You must help us, before we all leave this world behind. DarkBay lives matter.

I never realized but why does CD have so many servers on their side? Shouldn’t anet distribute one to DBay?

They thought that 2 T5 servers would be able to match a T5, a T6 and 2 T7 servers combined. They just forgot to take in consideration that during the pairing prior this one both Dh and EBay lost several guilds while ET and Kain were stacked with guilds that wanted a free pass to T1.

They can see transfer. That really isn’t an excuse.

And for the few guilds that left prior to, we don’t really care much about them. Most of them are fair weather players anyway and came out only when it was a sure fire win. Lgn was probably one of the last and left because of the train wreck that was left behind.

Whatever, it is an option so again the onus falls onto Arena Net.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hello everyone,

As Chris mentioned last week here, we are going to be manually adjusting Glicko ratings during tomorrows reset for the purpose of improving matchmaking. We will be temporarily adjusting Crystal Desert, Sorrow’s Furnace, and Darkhaven rating by +200, so that they are closer in rating to other NA worlds, giving them a better chance to adjust out of tier 4. Tomorrow after reset the following ratings for Tier 3 and Tier 4 worlds should look something like this:

Tier 3
• Yak’s Bend: 1,864
• Stormbluff Isle: 1,765
• Sea of Sorrows: 1,770

Tier 4
• Crystal Desert: 1,519 + 200 = 1,719
• Sorrow’s Furnace: 1,414 + 200 = 1,614
• Darkhaven: 1,343 + 200 = 1,543

It is important to keep in mind that these adjustments are not permanent and that these are invisible adjustments to anything but matchmaking. If you have further questions, I recommend reading Chris’s forum posts in the thread I linked above for more information. Also, we will not be making any adjustments to EU at this time.

It’s a step in the right direction… However, I’m concerned t4 won’t change until the next linking. DH shouldn’t be a host server to begin with, they are being pummelled every week and it’s getting worse. CD is nearly 3x their score this week and has been increasing steadily.

Then we have YB feeding the other 2 severs in T3 glicko. Even with the extra 200 temporary glicko points, the math doesn’t add up for CD to move up anytime soon until the next linking.

Yes, the odds are still against CD moving up this next reset, but possibly the extra points and next week’s match score increase could give them a better chance of moving up. But, we’re only 3-4 weeks out to the next re-pairing, so yeah…

Mario.8215:

It’s a step in the right direction… However, I’m concerned t4 won’t change until the next linking. DH shouldn’t be a host server to begin with, they are being pummelled every week and it’s getting worse. CD is nearly 3x their score this week and has been increasing steadily.

DH isn’t getting pummelled, that really isn’t fair (not that fair matters I guess). DH and EB are waging a war against 7 bloody servers. You do know it is 2 v 3 v 4, right?

DH and EB can handle CD just fine. It is the other servers that are mudding the waters which leads back to my original point. What makes CD so special and why should we care about them? This is yet again showing how broke or currpt the system is. It is broke. Stop trying to put a bandaid and on it and actually fix it before everyone bails the sinking ship.

The only saving grace GW2 had in this format of play is that it is the “only” game in town with format. Once someone comes along these players will leave. Nothing is left here that is ground breaking…

Crapgame.6519:

DH and EB can handle CD just fine

The matchup gets a lot better when dh busts out a blob and does something other than ktraining sf stuff while cd is blobbing sf keep. Not only is cd running fat at all hours but we’re suffering from uneven pressure.

Seeing dh jump in against cd today was both refreshing and fun. Even with CDs ridiculous numbers the matchup will be more fun if we have 3 sides actually looking for a fight.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Also, we will not be making any adjustments to EU at this time.

No, of course not. We are merely an afterthought. I guess we’ll get to “fight” either Deso and Piken OR Deso and German Server Of The Week again, thanks to your idiotic world link system.

I dont see why at each server linking that all glickos are rest to say 1800. It might take a couple of weeks for the true t1 and t4 to sort themselves out but at least it would be different matchups for the first half of the 2 month cycle.

CD should be manually moved up, not have a chance. Based on our numbers we have more players than any other server in T3 and will likely smash that tier as well, but the glicko hole you put us in has made that impossibile. Also by manually adjusting everyone by 200 glicko in our tier, we are unlikely to get anymore glicko from SF/DH in the event we do not move up because we have drained them dry, while YB’s feeds SoS/SBI there glicko because they died.

Anet is afraid to do any manual adjustments. So they artificially increase Glicko to give a “chance” to move up.

And when the “chance” doesn’t happen, and the T4 match is the same, more frustration with Anet will be bred. Can’t wait for all the threads if the 4-headed hydra doesn’t move to T3.

Anet for the next linkings you’ve gotta do something different. Given that your data can’t be perfect, and given that bandwaggoning occurs, and given that the fairweather effect is huge. You’ve got to make sure Glicko is close in the beginning of the linking period. Or throw in 1U1D for the first couple of weeks of the linking period.

If a server drops from T3 to T4, will they gain/lose glicko points in T4 based on the “real” ratings of T4 servers or the “adjusted” ratings? If it’s based on the “real” ratings, whoever drops from T3 to T4 is going to be stuck there, just by virtue of how glicko works.

Johje Holan.4607:

Anet is afraid to do any manual adjustments. So they artificially increase Glicko to give a “chance” to move up.

And when the “chance” doesn’t happen, and the T4 match is the same, more frustration with Anet will be bred. Can’t wait for all the threads if the 4-headed hydra doesn’t move to T3.

Anet for the next linkings you’ve gotta do something different. Given that your data can’t be perfect, and given that bandwaggoning occurs, and given that the fairweather effect is huge. You’ve got to make sure Glicko is close in the beginning of the linking period. Or throw in 1U1D for the first couple of weeks of the linking period.

The adjustment is good enough that if CD wants and trys to move up they will. ANd whoever drops to T4 will release glicko to the other 2 dead servers making a rotation possible for whatever dominant server is in T4.

Glicko doesn’t need tweaking or adjusting or invisible changes – it needs resetting to zero each time linking is changed.

Why?

Because linking was introduced specifically to change “server” performance. In what way is the historical glicko from previous years or links at all relevant when the actual player base for a server/combo changes at each linking?

I can’t believe Anet don’t understand this, so the fact that they are fiddling with invisible adjustments either means they can’t set it to zero (or some arbitrary number like 1800), or they believe the linked servers have no impact on what happens. (Really?!)
Or is it just that Anet figure more players will be upset if they equalise everything than will be upset by continuing with current scores?

If they rest glicko than there will be lopsided matches for 6 months or longer forevery server and no one will want to play. The only tier that isnt balanced is T4 right now? Why would they reset the gliko of perfectly balanced tiers just becasue 2 servers are dead.

A change like this is nothing but a band-aid.

In order to make WvW viable as a mode, you need to make matches between servers with radically different population and coverage fun to play and interesting.

No amount of server linking, glicko tinkering, scoring changes, or new siege will create that.

Reh.5986:

Crapgame.6519:

DH and EB can handle CD just fine

The matchup gets a lot better when dh busts out a blob and does something other than ktraining sf stuff while cd is blobbing sf keep. Not only is cd running fat at all hours but we’re suffering from uneven pressure.

Seeing dh jump in against cd today was both refreshing and fun. Even with CDs ridiculous numbers the matchup will be more fun if we have 3 sides actually looking for a fight.

SF comes to DHBL all time when CD blob is there so it’s pretty much the same. But if the kitten FC players on SF didn’t camped DHBL all day, DH pugs problably wouldn’t be angry and wanting to take a piece of SF instead of fighting CD.

I still like the idea of doing currently logged in averages of the match up between the 3 teams and maps then applying an offset to determine real-time per map queue. It is the really the only way to achieve a balance at all time-frames and punish the people who over-stack servers.

Get rid of the linking and implement this so the lower tiers can have their small tier fights. Heck give the lowest tier maps for smaller scale fights. Only implement it in NA to try it out.

@Warlord: with a reset for NA servers, after the first week JQ, SBI and CD teams would have been facing off against each other instead of dominating their tiers trying to push up to another. Yes the first week or two would be chaotic but it would settle into groups that were matched without a glicko cliff to climb. As for lopsided matches for 6 months or more – you do know links change every 2 months don’t you?

@Heimlich: I fully agree that the fun and interest are the most important elements we need. The question is how to achieve this.

Warlord.9074:

The adjustment is good enough that if CD wants and trys to move up they will.

No, it’s not. CD is leading by 150k to second and over 205k to third and they are gaining merely 11 rating. You want them to have dominate even harder than that to move? A chance isn’t what we are expecting. CD was suposed to have moved up many weeks ago, but we’re stuck in this godkitten matchup for a month now because of glicko. And now with YB feeding T3 servers more rating, if CD don’t roll T3 today, it will be even harder to them move up in the subsequent weeks, up to a point that is possible that we stay in that match until august 26th.

Warlord.9074:

…perfectly balanced tiers…

Good joke mate…

Yuffi.2430:

@Heimlich: I fully agree that the fun and interest are the most important elements we need. The question is how to achieve this.

If you accept that there will be times when a server is outnumbered, even in its own home borderland, by 50 to 10, then the obvious answer would be to (under some circumstances) allow the team of 10 defenders to fight off 50 attackers.

Personally, I’d add 3 new borderlands to matchups where each side gets an additional new home and home team players on that borderland get a sizeable combat strength buff.

In any balanced matchup, those 3 new borderlands would be essentially unoccupied. Attackers would have no reason to venture into a map where they suffer a disadvantage.

In inbalanced matchups, the overstacked side will run out of other things to do, and if they want to fight other players, would have to go to the homeland maps.

I think ANet believes they can create balanced matchups and ignores the inevitability of 10v50 periods.

Using Glicko for matchmaking has been a joke and has created mostly stale matchups.

I have a question for Anet and I’m hoping you respond. What was your goal when you made CD/DH/SF host servers? You started them 400+ glicko behind the T3 servers and you also made CD a 4server merge and SF a 3server merge while every other server with merges only had 2. What were you trying to accomplish by merging 7 servers into 2 groups and then starting them out in t4, 400 glicko behind t3 making it impossible to move up? Please respond I truly am wondering.

Jeknar lol bud if they adjust the gliko like they said if CD wins by that much they will gain like 100 Gliko per week,.

This is what will happen.

SoS will probably drop down. CD will go Up. CD and BI will hard focous YB. YB will go down SoS will go back up.

After About 4 weeks. It will be SBI/CD/SoS T3

YB/DH/SF T4

No matter what T4 will be bad becasue DH and SF are dead.

Warlord.9074:

Jeknar lol bud if they adjust the gliko like they said if CD wins by that much they will gain like 100 Gliko per week,.

No, they won’t. Because the difference between the rating of the servers remain the same. They will give 200 to all 3 servers. SF will remain 120 rating behind CD and Dh will remain 200 rating behind CD as they are now. Glicko take the differences in consideration, not the actual values. 1530 to 1410/1330 is the same as 1730 to 1610/1530. CD will still only gain 11 rating.

I find funny how 3 years in the game some people still haven’t figured at least the basics of how glicko works.