On topic: politics during seasons is nice to have, but the current implementation means that only 2 servers out of 6 can benefit. A certain server is almost helpless in that they must simply be the target for the entire duration of the season, which is really boring politics when you think about it. If politics is to be encouraged during tournament play (I think it adds an extra dimension to the 2-year old stacking and recruiting coverage meta), it should be open for everyone to take part.
This is a very good point. Certainly some problems had are that the target is helpless to beat the 2v1 since there is no way to band together with anyone else. In the three-tier leagues this is alleviated by a constant change in opponents since only one of the top tier servers can come in first, so therefore their alliance is forced to be broken up. With only two tiers however these politics can’t be done, as third and fourth will never possibly appear in the same tier to challenge first or second.
The SoR guilds want to go back to fighting JQ because they’re bored but the original TC guilds won’t let them as they’re relaying information on their locations and what they’re doing to JQ.
Nah Wads. The majority of BG is just happy for a decent fight. Finally we’ve gotten one. Season 3 will see us come back stronger and it may take a 3vs1 to beat us next time. ;p
Savajj Blayde Lvl 80 Thief
Hrafn Skaarsgard Lvl 80 Healadin Guard
Beastgate – 2vs1? Who cares! We are just here for the fight! ;)
Nah Wads. The majority of BG is just happy for a decent fight. Finally we’ve gotten one. Season 3 will see us come back stronger and it may take a 3vs1 to beat us next time. ;p
According to your SIG, why are you even complaining? If BG is that great, you should have no problem rolling the pugs that are 2v1’ing you.
Tacktical Killers [TK]
We’re looking for players.
PM me here or ING.
L2R Loosmaster.
If you have a look at my posts you won’t see any complaints about the 2vs1 from TC & JQ. It is how WvW was designed. My only problem is with the Swiss tournament method and how it has been implemented
Savajj Blayde Lvl 80 Thief
Hrafn Skaarsgard Lvl 80 Healadin Guard
Beastgate – 2vs1? Who cares! We are just here for the fight! ;)
i think i have a solution to all this BG QQ, just transfer to TC or JQ, i mean that’s all you want right? to be #1 ppt?
Lol, I think you’ve posted this before.
I’ll speak for my guild who has been on BG since headstart: We’ll be with BG if it ends up at T8. We play for teamwork/community; PPT tries to measure that.
Appreciate the humor. There is always truth in humor, that’s what makes it funny. See previous comment about a vocal minority.
/salute
BG: 52 alts, 29 lvl 80’s.They all look good, so I am done with the game: Oct 2014
The SoR guilds want to go back to fighting JQ because they’re bored but the original TC guilds won’t let them as they’re relaying information on their locations and what they’re doing to JQ.
The 2v1 hasn’t been in effect since Monday.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Has anyone considered that the system may be intentionally unfair to encourage more server transfers?
Server transfers are a common kneejerk response by players and guilds to find something that cant be found, not because it doesnt exist, but rather they arent looking in the right places.
At the end of the day, players and guilds need to find an environment where they can have their fun, whatever that may be. Within that context, for wvwers – an acceptance that wvw isnt fair and servers arent balanced may go some way to allow them to adjust or find playstyles which they find enjoyable.
Why are people only now getting an understanding of the point system? Last week Far Shiverpeaks realized they could actually lose and not get penalized points-wise just to skip a match with Gandara. Most other servers that are tied for second place knew of this from the beginning and didn’t withstand unfair PPT wars every second week ^^
So was there a concerted effort to lose? And if so, was there any controversy within the server because of that? This kind of thing can really damage a server — which is why no one should be put into a situation where the incentive is to lose.
Tanking scores is incredibly easy and doesn’t have to be at the expense of casuals. All you need to do is to allow some structure to be capped by the enemy servers for tick, and karma train them. You aren’t getting points, your casuals get loot, open field fights still go on and everyone is happy
Almost inevitably, people will discuss the tanking in mapchat and that’ll lead to fights between those who want to tank and those who feel you should never tank.
And then you have people who get overzealous and start griefing their own server (waste supplies, build useless siege, the usual) to make sure they lose.
This all happened on NSP before Season 1. It damaged the server and it took quite a while to recover from that.
I am personally one of those people that think you should never tank. And that both ways. SOS tanked on the downfall from tier 1 to t4 on purpose while a few of us literally tried to run against windmills stopping this. Result: boring t4 matches for weeks on end and lost lots of good people that would have prefered t3 at least instead of the easy wins. It was for me one of the most upsetting moments and every since this time my connection to whatever goes and “speaks for sos” turns out very controversal.
Now SOS tanks in the other direction, by indirectly or directly stacking once again making t2 matches boring. In some way I feel sorry for mag and db cause i know how it is to sit on the other side of such a match just as well but nevertheless both server handle this way better than ours would likely do.
Now if we look at leagues – no matter my opinion- I think there are very few exceptions where you can actually pull of tanking on purpose if you got a solid community. Tanking in most cases includes the opportunistic development of getting somewhere where there is an easy win. As a result that server will attract opportunists an as a follow-up it becomes instable which is where i am for example very worried that sos might be there already. People that enjoy a challenge are not gonna like being in a match where the result is pre-definded or where the challenge is countered not by sportmanship but by stacking (a difference i noticed often na people cant make) and as a result once a difficult match turns up everyone but the few vanish.
The only real opportunity where a loose is better than a win is if you dont do it for points but for another “goal” that is overriding points. In my experience what quite often seems to work is some sort of revenge on a moral basis.
Otherwise it will indeed damage the server on a long time basis in which you not only use the solid people that play for the server but also the opportunists which leave once a better offer turns up.
To be fair we were ramping up to fight TC, not to kick around Mag and DB. It should also be noted that our community was very vocal about encouraging transfers to FA and Mag after TC went to T1 and it was clear we were much larger than the competition.
Our NA was still just a little bit bigger than FA’s prior to the season. The real reason for the one-sided matches is that most Magummies do not ppt and DB is really T2.5
this “better to lose” concept is working well with CD in the Silver League since week 4.
In which way? Cause as i understand it some servers are not playing for loose but rather accepting that they cant win and therefore play with a different mindest. It`s just relaxing into it but i dont understand this as tanking because there is no gain in it.
Also Chris, when did we decide they wanted to fight tc and therefore go t1? Wasnt it about balancing t2?As for vocal denial,afaik there was no vocal to turn guilds away but you can easily mail me those vocals. Some voiced concerns but the overall majority said " we wont turn you away" which just the same as saying yes in a veiled way (it`s like you have sex without protection and then you are suprised your wife is pregnant). You really think people that left sor on the downfall (like we were left) for sos make good additions?
Secondly, imbalance comes 2 servers fighting each other for the last spot while realizing that beating third is too hard due to imbalanced coverage. You think the 120k lead win on the first league match was healthy?
eu league
“Opportunities multiply as they are seized.”
The SoR guilds want to go back to fighting JQ because they’re bored but the original TC guilds won’t let them as they’re relaying information on their locations and what they’re doing to JQ.
The 2v1 hasn’t been in effect since Monday.
Nothing you said in your post contradicts what he said. And the drama is very real, on both JQ and TC servers. Expect a rather large JQ guild to implode soon and a few guilds to move off of TC because of this 2v1.
Nothing you said in your post contradicts what he said. And the drama is very real, on both JQ and TC servers. Expect a rather large JQ guild to implode soon and a few guilds to move off of TC because of this 2v1.
I lul’d.
Care to back up your unfounded claims?
People enjoy making BG suffer. ESPECIALLY the larger guilds.
When scientists discover the center of the universe,
a lot of people will be disappointed they are not it.
Hey, BG ain’t suffering. We may not be winning Season 2 but we aren’t sufffering. We astill fighting & we are still doing what we love and are good at.
Savajj Blayde Lvl 80 Thief
Hrafn Skaarsgard Lvl 80 Healadin Guard
Beastgate – 2vs1? Who cares! We are just here for the fight! ;)
Hey, BG ain’t suffering. We may not be winning Season 2 but we aren’t sufffering. We astill fighting & we are still doing what we love and are good at.
People think BG is suffering because they are holding the WvW forums hostage with their nonstop and excessive qq.
Nothing you said in your post contradicts what he said. And the drama is very real, on both JQ and TC servers. Expect a rather large JQ guild to implode soon and a few guilds to move off of TC because of this 2v1.
I lul’d.
Care to back up your unfounded claims?
People enjoy making BG suffer. ESPECIALLY the larger guilds.
I lul’d cause I really hit a nerve with that truth.
this “better to lose” concept is working well with CD in the Silver League since week 4.
In which way? Cause as i understand it some servers are not playing for loose but rather accepting that they cant win and therefore play with a different mindest. It`s just relaxing into it but i dont understand this as tanking because there is no gain in it.
Also Chris, when did we decide they wanted to fight tc and therefore go t1? Wasnt it about balancing t2?As for vocal denial,afaik there was no vocal to turn guilds away but you can easily mail me those vocals. Some voiced concerns but the overall majority said " we wont turn you away" which just the same as saying yes in a veiled way (it`s like you have sex without protection and then you are suprised your wife is pregnant). You really think people that left sor on the downfall (like we were left) for sos make good additions?
Secondly, imbalance comes 2 servers fighting each other for the last spot while realizing that beating third is too hard due to imbalanced coverage. You think the 120k lead win on the first league match was healthy?
I meant fight TC when they were in T2, before SoR imploded. We didn’t really gain much after TC moved up. 2 havoc sized SEA guilds and TW; and we did not go out an court any of them.
I also don’t get the “we won’t turn you away” line. Please direct me to the person with the allow/deny switch to transfers on SoS. Also, when a group has made up their mind to come of course we’ll welcome them.
The only server that tells transferring guilds to go kitten off is Maguuma, the same guys you were just pitying (who took our garrison twice this morning so don’t feel too sorry for them).
this “better to lose” concept is working well with CD in the Silver League since week 4.
In which way? Cause as i understand it some servers are not playing for loose but rather accepting that they cant win and therefore play with a different mindest. It`s just relaxing into it but i dont understand this as tanking because there is no gain in it.
……..
:)
we know our strength and weakness, and as far as the tournament goes, we know we couldn’t get past FA and YB due to their numbers, that’s fact. so, one way to get as highest place as possible in the tournament is by maxing your points.
taking the lose now- own later would guarantee us the max possible tournament points we can achieve, and that is 27, and we would be on par with SbI and IoJ comes tournament end, and share the 4th place.
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Its a rumor thats probably rooted in the rogue BG players that put accounts on TC with guild names/tags similar to real ones and started doing bad things we can’t talk about here. It was obviously just a few random idiots and I doubt anyone with real power in BG, but it did happen.
Jigglenaut/Numa Rar/Jakuho Raikoben/Tenel Ka Djo/Kurotsuchi Taichou [SF]/[LOVE]
All Hail CuddleStrike! Undisputed Empress of Tier 1!
Controlled by CuddleStrike!
It will be interesting to see how strong a performance BG’s secret team of alt accounts on SoS puts in during next week’s matchup.
that would help bg how?
Would be better to join JQ one week TC the next and manipulate it that way. Using all the sup, tag watching for each server, building hilarious siege. you know all the things TC and JQ are doing in mass.
The funny thing is Cloudwhatever tag watches Waage like a stalker in your bushes. If waage tags down, Cloud fails miserably and only goes after paper things when his tag watcher sees out manned for bg.
Something akin to the HILARIOUS 20 golem rush (while BG was outmanned big time on BGBL) with near no overall coordination that was foiled by BG (yes with help from other maps but lols). This with JQ busting down all the gates and killing people also. Massive amounts of ACs on 3rd floor build by TC and still get they pushed off. You have 1 full map blob of TC and prob half a blob of JQ.
^ http://i.imgur.com/QwNIhSz.jpg
(notice the out manned)
So really helping SoS would be useless overall. It would also not be funny and enjoyable to do.
It will be interesting to see how strong a performance BG’s secret team of alt accounts on SoS puts in during next week’s matchup.
Where do people come up with these wacky conspiracies from?
People with nothing better to than do personal attacks against other servers. This can range from accusations of buying guilds, cheating, unfair tactics, etc. Many servers have been accused of this by other people from servers who have nothing better to do. It’s just the toxicity/immaturity that some members of the playerbase have where they resort to attacks either to flame resentment towards that server or just to troll. You see these people in pvp as well as they’re normally the ones insulting other players whether they win or lose.
What would it say about me if I decided to find a particular server and post in every thread various accusations about said server whether baseless or not? It’s because of these people that a particular WvW subforum was removed.
After a few days of thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that an organised 2v1 is beneficial to WvW regardless of tier or server it’s targeted against. The only problem is if it goes on for longer than 2 matchups. It causes bigger fluctuations in glicko which allows for more varied matchups, as well as allowing servers to execute different strategies for different situations. Not having a server dominate a tier is a good thing and can only mean the slow balancing of servers, starting from the top. It just needs a lot of trust between servers in regards to stacking. We’re not there yet, but it seems to be within reach
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
The BG on SoS conspiracy is because the owner of the former SoS community site (former member of BG council) had posted a warchest on that site and he claims it’s all going to bring a “large guild over from BG.”
We figure either the money doesn’t exist, or it’s going to a legendary.
Of course , anyone on BG who is in talks with this individual (on the off chance he really is planning this) is encouraged to look up the legit site listed here on the forums and get the full story before they step in it.
The BG on SoS conspiracy is because the owner of the former SoS community site (former member of BG council) had posted a warchest on that site and he claims it’s all going to bring a “large guild over from BG.”
We figure either the money doesn’t exist, or it’s going to a legendary.
Of course , anyone on BG who is in talks with this individual (on the off chance he really is planning this) is encouraged to look up the legit site listed here on the forums and get the full story before they step in it.
Barron’s actions are questionable by all involved. I’m pretty sure no one took it seriously
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
Speak for yourself, I am in JQ and an avid WvWvW player, and this season is personal for me against BG. Get the facts right, first week was purely 3-way fight between BG, TC and JQ, there might be a one or two off incidence but that might be beneficial for both sides but it was 3-way mainly. Once BG got arrogant and started posting like they have won the tourney after their first week victory. Well this is what they deserve hope they fall to fifth place behind SoS and MAG. I truly enjoy watching them burn each week till the 9th. Please don’t give the crap that certain few players talk smack on the forums and you guy’s don’t deserve it if you want pity don’t play WvWvW.
The general consensus in JQ is we don’t give a kitten who wins First or Second, we just wish the downfall of Blackgate.
So you guys lost, decided to troll a fair matchup, and then brag about it and continue to troll them? You guys are only making your servers look like a bunch of pathetic sore loser trolls. The best part of this is you’re only making BG look better since “it took 2 T1 servers to keep us from winning”. TC or JQ might win the season, but you’ve gotten destroyed on the PR side.
<s>Remember everyone! We don’t want to bring megaservers to WvW because communities like JQ and TC are important!</s>
Lost ? One week of coming in first and you assume BG won the whole tournament ! I am not bragging about it I am only voicing out my opinion stating that i don’t give kitten about coming in 1st or 2nd since many people are talking smack and stating we are doing this because of Server Ranking.
PR side ? Seriously not all servers want to be the next BuyGate. When you say sore loser it makes no sense cause clearly the info-graphics are showing TC and JQ triumphing BG. Maybe I might becoming off as strong but not sore.
Nah Wads. The majority of BG is just happy for a decent fight. Finally we’ve gotten one. Season 3 will see us come back stronger and it may take a 3vs1 to beat us next time. ;p
Stop being arrogant, its not a 2v1 base on the tournament, its just killing BG because they are BG. If it was (X)vsBGvsJQ or (X)vsBGvsTC it will still be X & TC/JQ vs BG cause nobody wants a kitteny BGer to be anywhere near T1 when season ends. Be humble next season at least.
Its a rumor thats probably rooted in the rogue BG players that put accounts on TC with guild names/tags similar to real ones and started doing bad things we can’t talk about here. It was obviously just a few random idiots and I doubt anyone with real power in BG, but it did happen.
To be fair, I have an account on BG that I use to follow KnT and ND around. Nothing makes me happier than getting to stomp some of my guildmates from time to time.
Nah Wads. The majority of BG is just happy for a decent fight. Finally we’ve gotten one. Season 3 will see us come back stronger and it may take a 3vs1 to beat us next time. ;p
Stop being arrogant, its not a 2v1 base on the tournament, its just killing BG because they are BG. If it was (X)vsBGvsJQ or (X)vsBGvsTC it will still be X & TC/JQ vs BG cause nobody wants a kitteny BGer to be anywhere near T1 when season ends. Be humble next season at least.
And it’s posts like these that makes us laugh. Seriously? Humble? It’s a competition. Get used to it. Blackgate has a lot of server pride and we’re not going to be “humble” just cause some forum troll tells us to.
Look to your own server and see what the 2v1 has done to it.
Expac sucks for WvW players. Asura master race
Beastgate | Faerie Law
Currently residing on SBI
Its a rumor thats probably rooted in the rogue BG players that put accounts on TC with guild names/tags similar to real ones and started doing bad things we can’t talk about here. It was obviously just a few random idiots and I doubt anyone with real power in BG, but it did happen.
To be fair, I have an account on BG that I use to follow KnT and ND around. Nothing makes me happier than getting to stomp some of my guildmates from time to time.
Yeah, thats different. These people were deliberately doing certain “things” to make other servers look bad and using fake tags like [ZZZ] trying to make zombie coast look bad.
Jigglenaut/Numa Rar/Jakuho Raikoben/Tenel Ka Djo/Kurotsuchi Taichou [SF]/[LOVE]
All Hail CuddleStrike! Undisputed Empress of Tier 1!
Controlled by CuddleStrike!
Good to see you back in game. Out of curiosity how is WvW Clausewitzian, I am an avid war/history reader but I am not quite sure how it fits in.
FW
I’d argue that the current NA situation is a textbook example of the Clauszwitzian trinity in action.
BTW if you’re interested in the field, I recommend Beatrice Heuser’s The Evolution of Strategy – imo the best book on western strategy written in at least 25 years.
