Guild Wars 2

Just another YES.

WvW, like sPvP, is about YOUR accomplishments. PvE is about YOUR CHARACTERS’ accomplishments.

Yes, i play multiple characters and I don’t want to be at a disadvantage because of that.

Yes.

Would love accountbound wvw levels.

Yes.

As someone with 9 level 80s, yes I want account bound. But Anet doesn’t want this. They use time sinks to compensate for their lack of development.

Wanze.8410:

I think it would be fair to make wxp ranks account bound but that should also mean that you can only allocate your rank points across all your characters not the full amount to each of them.

You have 4 characters at rank 50 each?

Feel free to spend 200 points on one character or 100 points on 2 characters each.

But dont expect to be able to spend 200 rank points on each of your alts.

Hello guildy, Seems we dont have only guild in common

Rhongomyniad.5081:

rhodoc.2381:

WXP Pool can be account bound while abilities can be character bound. Seems fair

I think this is a great idea.

Me too I vote for this idea, preserves individual character development whilst not curtailing alt aholics.

PariahX.6970:

No! I agree with Belle, I don’t give a flying monkey kitten what my WXP rank is and it totally baffles that so many of you do or think you are somehow sub-optimal in this easy cake walk super duper casual version of PvP. They made the WXP stuff total fluff because it is not the point of the game, just a little extra bit for those who get so freaking progression obsessed.

The extra vitality or damage you get from maxing the guard trait lines is clearly significant and you are clearly sub optimal without it.

Of course. Our guild does regular WvWvW raids and everybody there wants account bound WXP traits, because we are often shuffling characters.

Yes

/fifteen char

Yes.

What did my alts ever do to you?

Also, this:

PariahX.6970:

Rhongomyniad.5081:

rhodoc.2381:

WXP Pool can be account bound while abilities can be character bound. Seems fair

I think this is a great idea.

Me too I vote for this idea, preserves individual character development whilst not curtailing alt aholics.

PariahX.6970:

No! I agree with Belle, I don’t give a flying monkey kitten what my WXP rank is and it totally baffles that so many of you do or think you are somehow sub-optimal in this easy cake walk super duper casual version of PvP. They made the WXP stuff total fluff because it is not the point of the game, just a little extra bit for those who get so freaking progression obsessed.

The extra vitality or damage you get from maxing the guard trait lines is clearly significant and you are clearly sub optimal without it.

Yes.

WXP rank and skill points to spend acc bound.

“Build” of skill points spent char bound.

^that’s how it should have worked from the start.

Daethonfoot.3516:

Gizmo works for a-net undercover. That’s unacceptable Gizmo, simply not good enough. We need account based rank now.

You, sir are gravely mistaken….sadly

There’s so much that needs to change with this game it isn’t even funny. Just from a quality of life stand point.

Dyes should be account wide.
WvW rank should be account wide.
Commander tags should be account wide.
Purchaseable equipment (cultural for example) should be skins and not items.
All armor sets should be available in PvE and PvP(s/t/WvW)

Limm.8401:

YES.
I have effectively stopped playing my alts after the introduction of Guard Leech and Applied Fortitude.

Same, 2.5k hp for face rolling a few guards is a significant advantage.

Obscure One.4357:

…now you’ll have to excuse me. I promised I’d eat a bowl of baby kittens with a spoon every time a PvE lover trolls the WvW sub-forums. I’d eat something else but the forum swear filter makes me do it…it’s pure evil…

Thank you for discounting all casual WvWers for not being hardcore enough to post on these forums. As much as PvEers out number the WvW crowd (4 to 1 I would guess, maybe more) casual WvWers probably outnumber those of you who take this game format a little too seriously so yes, our opinions are completely worthless in this discussion. <rolls eyes> And forum users are outnumbered even 2x more than that! I think the dragon bash might have been on the only part of the living story I’ve spent any time on just because I wanted the skins so yeah PvE is pretty far from my interests. As for what you have to do to kittens . . . I suggest you get some help being less obscure if you need validation so badly.

Lalnuir.4957:

Limm.8401:

YES.
I have effectively stopped playing my alts after the introduction of Guard Leech and Applied Fortitude.

Same, 2.5k hp for face rolling a few guards is a significant advantage.

And here is the crux, you can’t have it both ways but ANET is trying to walk a mighty fine line in between the two. Either we have power creep or we keep a level playing field. WxP being character bound and hard to earn with minimal rewards is good for the long term health of this game. Since GW2 WvW is still so far from ideal and what I imagined it would be from the manifesto then I still have hope for the future if we don’t push the devs into more significant power creep. I don’t want this to be another game where noobs are punished for joining the game two years later than majority. If they head out into WvW for the first time and see Diamond Legends everywhere they are not going to stick around, especially if we continue to perpetuate the false premise that time > skill.

At least this way players have to make some choices about what they do with their progression time. Sadly for some of the more obsessive who feel like they have to have every possible gimmick and advantage possible to enjoy their characters, this might mean less time on their alts but I still think the majority of WvWers are having plenty of fun playing the game as they choose being “sub-optimal” because they decided to spread their WxP across characters. Maybe I don’t care much about the rank stuff just because I do not spend a lot of time killing guards or messing with siege so it is hard for me imagine everyone making such a big deal about over it when there are so many other much more important issues that are impacting everyone’s idea of fun in this game.

If there is a fix to made here it should be low priority and not as simple as make WxP account bound. Lets try and trust ANETs loyalty to their vision of this game and if it is not one you find enjoyable there are a ton of other games out there that reward time invested very heavily.

Oh hell yes! That would be really nice.

Yes, of course. Would love to play my alts more in WvW but earning 1000s of levels on each one is obviously not an option!

I am all in favor of it. I have 8 level 80s’, one of each class, and play them in WvW as the situation dictates. For example my mesmer for attacking towers/keeps and my Guardian for taking camps. Between them all I play my Guardian the most as he was my first level 80 and is now Rank 88 however I have at least another 80 ranks between my other 7 characters.

At present it is unfair, so yes, on other alts should be able to choose where to put those points as well as keeping your rank, it puts me off lvlin other alts to take in wvw, because it is like you are starting all over again.

PariahX.6970:

Thank you for discounting all casual WvWers for not being hardcore enough to post on these forums. As much as PvEers out number the WvW crowd (4 to 1 I would guess, maybe more) casual WvWers probably outnumber those of you who take this game format a little too seriously so yes, our opinions are completely worthless in this discussion. <rolls eyes> And forum users are outnumbered even 2x more than that! I think the dragon bash might have been on the only part of the living story I’ve spent any time on just because I wanted the skins so yeah PvE is pretty far from my interests. As for what you have to do to kittens . . . I suggest you get some help being less obscure if you need validation so badly.

Your correct. The volume of unskilled 1-pressing bar fillers who enjoy being rewarded with something shiny just for showing up every 10-20 min vastly outnumber the amount of skilled, advanced, and well informed players in the genre at large. And yes I will discount those talentless casuals all day long…you’re welcome.

Pandering to lamestream gamers lies at the heart of all that is soulless and wrong with this industry. Skilled players don’t need anything but the ability to pit themselves against other skilled players on even footing to affirm their self held belief that they are actually skilled. If you’re never tested, you never know, and casuals like not knowing because the truth is oftentimes not what they want to see. They’d rather play around sub-optimally, blissfully ignorant of the meta, collecting a vast array of near freely distributed goodie bags, oblivious to notions of complex game mechanics and competitions of skill. Your a casual? Fine. Be a casual. But don’t show up at the veterans table and try to tell us you’re right, were wrong, and demean our overtly higher competency of the game mode.

…time to eat another bowl of baby kittens…some trolls just don’t know when to quit…

Yes. That is all.

Yes. cant agree more , more love for the alt lovers

As much as i want acc bound dyes and that’s not happening because gods knows wtf anet is thinking

Yes
Massage my body length, must be at least 15

No. I come from an old-school MMO mentality in which character progression, not account progression, is meaningful. Having an upleveled “Bronze Legend” seems odd.

Yes yes yes.

Instead of making it account wide you could also make it a lot faster to WXP-level your alts:

Character A: 200 rank (~1000000 WXP)
Character B: 30 rank (~150000 WXP)
Rate adjustment: 10 SM captures to match your highest level character (this is continually adjusted so that it is ‘always’ 10 SM captures away). The rate adjustment would never fall below 1×.
Calculation: It can be shown that character B would need to capture 1134 stonemists to catch up at the normal rate ( (1000000 – 150000) / 750 = 1134 ) and therefore would earn WXP at 114 times the rate (1134 / 10). We round up because you can’t get ‘1/2’ stonemist captures – it’s all or nothing.

Assuming I now went and captured a tower (naturally 300 WXP) with B, I would get 300 * 114 WXP resulting in gaining 34200 WXP (6.8 ranks). Applying the same booster calculation would mean that I would now be earning WXP at 108 times the rate, so if I immediately attacked another tower I would only get 21600 WXP (4.3 ranks).

This has multiple advantages.

Firstly, it’s a quick-route to levelling an alt in rank-terms, but still gives the player the opportunity to learn how that character works in WvW.

Secondly, for players levelling alts, it encourages aggressive play. Killing players etc. is wasting the boost that you get – this will encourage players to get out of their towers/away from their arrow carts and start attacking positions instead. Zergs would be penalized (once again, only if levelling alts) unless that zerg is doing something constructive.

Thoughts?

Edit: A quick calculation shows that you B would match A in 130 tower captures (with 1000200 WXP), or 662 player kills (with 1000020 WXP).
Edit: the boost rate should also be affected by character level. So at level 2 you would get 2/80 the boost rate (2.5% of 114x = 2.85x).

yes.
I love levelling alts in www and the current mechanic is very discouraging

Bredin.5368:

No. I come from an old-school MMO mentality in which character progression, not account progression, is meaningful. Having an upleveled “Bronze Legend” seems odd.

Old-school MMO mentality is only one character anyways and thus the concept of account vs character based progression is irrelevant in their regard. But since this isn’t the 90’s anymore, and games have come a long way, there have been some changes for the better.

Seeing an upleveled “Legend” mirrors an existing paradigm of deciding to snag another character slot, create a necro, dive into sPvP, and still be Glory rank 50…also with access to all the unlockables from previous time put in with other characters.

The argument you present is refuted by Arena Net’s own design. However you didn’t develop this product and thus your thoughts are excusable. Arena Net made the game, and thus have no excuse whatsoever beyond sheer laziness and sub-par design capabilities.

yes
Message Body length must at least be 15.

Let’s kill three birds with one stone.

Bird 1: We want account-bound WxP

Bird 2: We want to be able to refund WxP

Bird 3: WvW needs more love

Ok, 1 and 2 is giving us a lot of flexibility; yet cuts into the sense of permanence that ANet has stated they preferred in our character development

3 is an oft stated problem, and many people have pointed out that it does not bring in gem sales like PvE; and that may be part of the problem.

Solution: give us an account-wide pool of WXP that can only be assigned once, but can be reset by the use of a consumable that can be purchased 3/100 Gems in the BLTC store.

That makes any reset a very non-trivial decision, but doesn’t "lock" people into a single WvW main character if they decide to mix it up or their guild needs a different profession present.
The payoff is large gem store sales (add Wxp booster for more $$$) and proof to the folks who hold the purse strings that adding development resources to WvW is a great investment for the community and the company’s bottom-line.

Chris.3290:

Let’s kill three birds with one stone.

Bird 1: We want account-bound WxP

Bird 2: We want to be able to refund WxP

Bird 3: WvW needs more love

Ok, 1 and 2 is giving us a lot of flexibility; yet cuts into the sense of permanence that ANet has stated they preferred in our character development

3 is an oft stated problem, and many people have pointed out that it does not bring in gem sales like PvE; and that may be part of the problem.

Solution: give us an account-wide pool of WXP that can only be assigned once, but can be reset by the use of a consumable that can be purchased 3/100 Gems in the BLTC store.

That makes any reset a very non-trivial decision, but doesn’t “lock” people into a single WvW main character if they decide to mix it up or their guild needs a different profession present.
The payoff is large gem store sales (add Wxp booster for more $$$) and proof to the folks who hold the purse strings that adding development resources to WvW is a great investment for the community and the company’s bottom-line.

It’s a great idea.

Which is precisely why they’re never going to do that.

It takes money to make money…and I’m pretty sure I spend more on gas in a month than WvW has for its development budget.

Look at what they’ve done, failed to do, and done poorly thus far. Which part of any of that says they give a kitten #$%& about making WvW profitable? It’s regarded as a break from the trash content of PvE to appeal to the targeted audience of talentless casuals…smart move, since if they continue to ignore the game mode that’s the only audience they’ll have left anyways. Seems they want the hardcore players to burn out and leave the game so the horde of no-skill-casuals can play around in the game mode without fear of running into a skilled combatant.

Obscure One.4357:

PariahX.6970:

Thank you for discounting all casual WvWers for not being hardcore enough to post on these forums. As much as PvEers out number the WvW crowd (4 to 1 I would guess, maybe more) casual WvWers probably outnumber those of you who take this game format a little too seriously so yes, our opinions are completely worthless in this discussion. <rolls eyes> And forum users are outnumbered even 2x more than that! I think the dragon bash might have been on the only part of the living story I’ve spent any time on just because I wanted the skins so yeah PvE is pretty far from my interests. As for what you have to do to kittens . . . I suggest you get some help being less obscure if you need validation so badly.

Your correct. The volume of unskilled 1-pressing bar fillers who enjoy being rewarded with something shiny just for showing up every 10-20 min vastly outnumber the amount of skilled, advanced, and well informed players in the genre at large. And yes I will discount those talentless casuals all day long…you’re welcome.

Pandering to lamestream gamers lies at the heart of all that is soulless and wrong with this industry. Skilled players don’t need anything but the ability to pit themselves against other skilled players on even footing to affirm their self held belief that they are actually skilled. If you’re never tested, you never know, and casuals like not knowing because the truth is oftentimes not what they want to see. They’d rather play around sub-optimally, blissfully ignorant of the meta, collecting a vast array of near freely distributed goodie bags, oblivious to notions of complex game mechanics and competitions of skill. Your a casual? Fine. Be a casual. But don’t show up at the veterans table and try to tell us you’re right, were wrong, and demean our overtly higher competency of the game mode.

…time to eat another bowl of baby kittens…some trolls just don’t know when to quit…

I’d much rather be counted among the friendly and welcoming casuals than be part of the elite sneering down at everyone else. What I get from your post is a message that the opinion of anyone outside of the ‘veterans table’ is worthless.

I understand you feel you are highly skilled, highly experienced and overall ‘better’ player. That doesn’t mean your opinion is more valid than anyone else’s.

To everyone else, I apologize for going off topic. I have already expressed my opinion on wxp earlier in this discussion.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I’d much rather be counted among the friendly and welcoming casuals than be part of the elite sneering down at everyone else. What I get from your post is a message that the opinion of anyone outside of the ‘veterans table’ is worthless.
I understand you feel you are highly skilled, highly experienced and overall ‘better’ player. That doesn’t mean your opinion is more valid than anyone else’s.
To everyone else, I apologize for going off topic. I have already expressed my opinion on wxp earlier in this discussion.

My approximation of my own skill level on a scale of 1-10 would be a 6. The average skill level in the genre at large hovers around 2…primarily because game designs would rather not challenge them to get any better than that. That’s however irrelevant to the point.

Snoop around any of the PvE forums and see how many times I tell PvE players that their opinion is invalid, mine is correct, and when they respond with an obviously greater understanding of the mode I just call them elitists and persist in discounting them without basis.

Yeah, I don’t do that.

I hate PvE because I don’t game to grind through genuinely uninteresting tasks in the name of obtaining some supposedly prestigious reward that everyone has achieved. I like things to be rich, engaging, and difficult, so once achieved they represent an actual accomplishment. But again that’s beside the point.

Put simply I have no place to discount the opinions at the table of PvE casuals, and they have no place to discount the opinions at the table of WvW veterans. This is not an elitist practice. It is the same reason you want a Journeyman or Master Electrician for his advice when you have an electrical problem, not an Apprentice.

I think the WvW soulbound levels where an oversight in the beginning, I personally believe they expected people to play WvW the same as they wanted people to play PvE, where as you log into a char go play for 20 mins, log out get another char and do the same, the titles and ranks in WvW take such a massive amount of time, it makes no sense for the Achievement in WvW to be Account bond, yet the WxP levels are soulbound,

I believe though its more than likely to difficult now to correct without resetting the entire thing back to 0, and if you are someone who is at 500+ you will not want this, for those who play hardcore WvW we just got to accept it that you cannot play with Alts, WvW is not Alt friendly for time vs investment.

Yay for a reply!

I’m not particularly concerned either way since I don’t view it as a punishment/limitation/problem.

DevonCarver.5370:

We will not be changing WvW ranks or WxP to be account bound.

That’s too bad, but thank you for the reply. I would like to know why you (as in the team, not you specifically) believe this is the right choice as opposed to a system like the sPvP glory/titles.

DevonCarver.5370:

However, we are going to be implementing a host of changes that should make this seem less like some sort of punishment(a categorization I disagree with entirely) and more of a character progression system.

“Punishment” is a bit strong of a word, I agree. The thing is, I’m not looking for character progression in WvW. I have that in the PvE world, and from what I’ve read, we’re getting even more. I want to be focused on doing whatever benefits my group, be it playing an alt to cover a specific role or scouting and walking yaks instead of zerging. If my alts have less HP, defense/damage with siege, etc. I’m less likely to play them. (nearly) Unlimited character progression is only a good thing for a specific type of gamer, the one who make one single “main” and sticks to it despite being bored then demands the game add more to make it fun again. I don’t see many of that type in WvW. For the rest of us it just seems like a lot of grind to stay on par.

DevonCarver.5370:

The first step is the liquid WXP that is being added to the rank up chests which is account-bound. We are planning additional systems as well. Hopefully, as we continue to announce some of those changes, you will be happier with the system.

This sounds good, and I’ll keep my hopes up for it. Sounds a bit like an overly complicated system to give a halfway reasonable compromise, just to avoid having to say “yeah, we were wrong, let’s fix this” but I’ll take what I can get.

Can we also get a MF recipe that changes liquid karma in to liquid WXP?

Liquid karma container (level X) + X * 100 badges of honors + X * 2 crystalline dust + X * 10 spikes= liquid WXP container (level X)

im uncertain WXP flasks will actually address the issue of the soulbound system discouraging the use of alts…

hope the other things you arent telling us about yet combine with flasks to solve the problem.

sostronk.8167:

Yes.

As someone with 9 level 80s, yes I want account bound. But Anet doesn’t want this. They use time sinks to compensate for their lack of development.

rofl @ u noob

This is very disappointing, actually. The fact that I can play WvW on one character and see no progress whatsoever if I decide to try it on another is currently a very strong deterrent for me to going there at all.

Regarding the “it’s a character progression, not account progression” mentality: getting to level 80 takes significantly less time then getting to world rank 9945, besides doubling as a means of teaching how to play with the profession. WXP does nothing of that sort, it only takes a lot of time. The idea of levelling all professions to 80 is fine but the idea of getting 8 characters to max rank sounds even more ridiculous than the Yakslapper title.

This just repeats the mistakes with the karma system, which was originally a “character reward”, then we got inventory mess through liquid karma and finally it became account-bound. Why not skip over the middle step then? Why not make it like SPvP rank?

The distribution of points could still be permanent and per character, but the unreasonable grind to get the points would be reduced and people with more characters they like to play on wouldn’t be punished anymore.

Yes, I used to play warrior 75% of the time in WvW. Now I play him 100% of the time, I want to play on my guardian/engi/necro aswel. But they are all stuck with less than 100hours played on. And my warrior is rapidely closing in on 2000hours+.

Make it happen, don’t care about any other kittenty content.

As usual, what WvW players want doesn’t matter.

Better to add WXP vial grind to our WXP grind so we can grind while we grind.

I wish ESO didn’t look so terrible.

:(

I don’t get the response. I mean, I’m glad they realise it’s a problem, but I don’t see how this would encourage me to PLAY an alt instead of still keeping the WXP for my main. I’d love to feel like whatever character I play I’m progressing down the nearly 10,000 ranks…

This is some of the most disappointing news I have heard to date. I actually wish they had never said anything so I could have kept dreaming. Just today I was thinking to myself, “When they make WvW ranks account bound, I may be able to switch my mains!” Guess not….

DevonCarver.5370:

We will not be changing WvW ranks or WxP to be account bound.

This is a terrible decision. I’m really disappointed in ArenaNet. I have many alts which see very little play time in WvW because it’s just not worth redoing all the work to get them on par with my main wvw character.

I had hoped to see a system with an account wide rank that allowed every alt to use the total ability points gained in whatever lines they wanted. This would have allowed people to specialize alts without discounting the time players have already invested in WvW. It would encourage players to play other alts/classes and use other WvW abilities.

As long as ArenaNet keeps this stance on WvW ranks and ability points I’ll just continue to play only one character in WvW. I would definitely enjoy WvW more, and feel less burnt out at times, if it was more alt friendly.

DevonCarver.5370:

…The first step is the liquid WXP that is being added to the rank up chests which is account-bound. We are planning additional systems as well. Hopefully, as we continue to announce some of those changes, you will be happier with the system.

For once this is entirely welcome news. Thank you.

Urrid.4593:

DevonCarver.5370:

…The first step is the liquid WXP that is being added to the rank up chests which is account-bound. We are planning additional systems as well. Hopefully, as we continue to announce some of those changes, you will be happier with the system.

For once this is entirely welcome news. Thank you.

This wouldn’t be needed if WxP was account bound. The amount of WxP in these chest is going to be so insignificant in actually ranking up another character, assuming they are anything like the Karma Jugs for completing the daily. Even if the liquid WxP is awarded retroactively for all the previous ranks, in no way is it going to even put a dent into the time spent getting to the 200+ rank a lot of people already have.

So run around on a zerg necro to get equal benefits get for your roaming thief? Seems, not too fair.

Do you think this would be fair?

Sometimes I am just really confused how Arenanet comes up with ideas. They have good base concept of what to build on but the ideas that follow out of it just seem to out of touch with what they are doing.

It’s like create a super interesting monster to fight, followup idea from Arenanet is to have players physically shout at their monitors to beat said monster, makes sense? not really but sounds great on Anet paper!

Surprised they didn’t make WvW achievements character based.

It was obvious from the the WvW rank should have been account bound considering the speed of wvw leveling at the time. They even had the idiocy to say “Oh it’ll be fast, you’ll get a level every hour” or some stupid estimation. Maybe it would have been true if the ranks were all 2k xp to level up but once you each next few levels which require you to gain 5k WXP to rank up. I have no idea where their estimation came from when you look at the WXP gain.

No matter what changes occur that aren’t “WxP is not account based” it still limits my choice in what characters I can play. Oh what’s that? our WvW group desperately needs a mesmer? !!!!! Wait a second! I have a mesmer! What? No. I’m not going to change characters. Why would I want to play on my other character who is at WvW rank 2-3 while I can play my warrior that is 20+. I already have some wvw traits that are useful to the group and I can continue to grow that character. Why bother switching to my other characters and gain 1 or 2 levels when I could have gained it on my higher wvw ranked character who already has a few useful traits.

Because Arenanet had one of those stupid ideas where “Oh you’ve played our game for 7 years now and maxed your wvw rank (actually unrealistic and I would never reach max rank even after 7 years), congratulations you can NOW play on your OTHER character and relive the experience all over again. No need to thank us, we just added another 7 years of re-playability for you!”

Sorry for rant but these kind of thought processes and decisions always annoy me.

Hyung.6140:

:(

I don’t get the response. I mean, I’m glad they realise it’s a problem, but I don’t see how this would encourage me to PLAY an alt instead of still keeping the WXP for my main. I’d love to feel like whatever character I play I’m progressing down the nearly 10,000 ranks…

Well it means you can progress two characters at once if you choose to. You can play your alt and give the vials to your main.