Guild Wars 2

I know it’s a unspoken rule to not grief the WvW jump puzzles. For as long as I’ve been playing I’ve ran through them with rival shards and even helped them get around and vice versa has been done for me. But what do we do when a server has guilds that do nothing but grief the WvW JPs? I play on Devonas rest and this run through Sorrows Furnace has done nothing but grief the Oblivion Sanctum and several guilds are the culprits. Now I’ve heard nothing but bad things about this server that make me think it’s filled with nothing but trolls. What should we do then when dealing with those that break this unspoken rule? I say we retaliate till the greifer guilds disband. Why shouldn’t we fight back?

It’s an unspoken rule for a reason.

fuzzypanda.9365:

Why shouldn’t we fight back?

bring in more people to beat them down.

what is stopping you?

I think there is a guild in BG iirc, which sole purpose is to grief OS. TBH, if that is what makes the game fun for them, good for them. It just means I get a bit less badges and siege.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

fuzzypanda.9365:

Why shouldn’t we fight back?

bring in more people to beat them down.

what is stopping you?

Indeed. Why arent people treating the JP like a WvW zone, when it is in fact a WvW zone? A 30 man guild will go through it in like 15 minutes and thrash just about every enemy they meet not to mention get lots of siege for their commander. If you send a couple of thieves/mesmers in advance you shorten the time to like 2 minutes (1 minute to clear the enemy griefers at spawn and another minute to get the chest).

What do you do when people bring guns to grief players in the WVW JP? Bring bigger guns.

^^ aye, strength in numbers!

^ well, more guns work too!

people forget that guild wars 2 is a team game? -_- ;;;

Avelos.6798:

What do you do when people bring guns to grief players in the WVW JP? Bring bigger guns.

And then you end up with everyone griefing everyone. Except the real griefers, because they have run away by that point.

Patently false

It is an unspoken rule to grief in the JPs.
That’s what they’re for, that’s why they exist.

If you don’t believe me, just ask yourself why all those traps exist, why the dark room exists and why it has an “arena”. Those things are not accidents.

So glad I can do the dark room with no torch. It lets me grief the griefers and defend myself properly.

by the way,
i think it is very wrong to call people who PvP in PvP area griefers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.

PvP inside PvP area is very much intended.

There’s no unspoken truce rule of any sort. It’s a PVP so don’t get mad if someone facerolls you. Get some bros and fight back.

Besides you get siege stuff at the end of the JP so firstly, why the heck would people want you to get that stuff? I’ve happily let people run on by and not get killed or kill and I’ve picked a few fights (and lost but I don’t care) but it’s a PVP area. If you can’t handle it, then that’s not for you in my opinion. But those people are certainly not griefers.

Astralporing.1957:

Avelos.6798:

What do you do when people bring guns to grief players in the WVW JP? Bring bigger guns.

And then you end up with everyone griefing everyone. Except the real griefers, because they have run away by that point.

And that is what you call a party. Bring beer and popcorn, this will get messy but by gollie gee, we are gonna have fun. It’s still PVP and no one has to yield to anyone.

I love to grief people in WvW’s JPs.

But before that, pretend to be friendly, let that person/persons do the JP with you, and at the end, knock down them off the edge.

I always Banish my people off the edge of the final platform, but I do let them get the chest.

/wave
/cheer
4

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

by the way,
i think it is very wrong to call people who PvP in PvP area griefers.

Yes, but it’s completely okay to call people who grief in PvP areas griefers. Griefers are, in general, completely uninterested in PvP. For them to be interested, killings must be completely one-sided. And most of campers in WvW JP’s are griefers, not PvP’s.

and how would you define an act of griefing as?

Astralporing.1957:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

by the way,
i think it is very wrong to call people who PvP in PvP area griefers.

Yes, but it’s completely okay to call people who grief in PvP areas griefers. Griefers are, in general, completely uninterested in PvP. For them to be interested, killings must be completely one-sided. And most of campers in WvW JP’s are griefers, not PvP’s.

I’ve always found griefing to be an effective instigator for PvP. Don’t get mad, get even.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

and how would you define an act of griefing as?

This is the heart of the argument. It’s so frustrating when people kick around the word “griefing” as if it’s the new “terrorist”.

I saw my younger sister get visibly upset that somebody was stealing blocks from “her house” on Minecraft, claiming that he was griefing her. For…moving blocks around. It was difficult to explain to her that there are, in fact, probably 300 other servers she could play on where he could not follow, and probably even single-player (I don’t play, please give me some buffer-room) where she could build houses all day. I suppose she thought it was more fun to stick around and harass/be harassed in chat.

Does nobody remember the days when griefing meant tppk in hardcore D2? Having to dodge other player’s PvE AE attacks, just in case they town portal and hit hostile while you’re in the middle of what was a benign attack an eighth of a second ago? Or someone corpse-camping you in a duel game, especially when you made a mistake and half your gear is on each corpse, such that if you just leave the game, half your stuff will be missing?

Now, if there’s a dude hiding in cheesy locations, not finishing the puzzle, looking for an easy jump…maybe. He might actually be going out of his way just to make other people upset. But what do you lose, 10 minutes of WASD-spacebar movement? D2 griefing you could actually lose any number of really expensive items that could take weeks to recuperate, with very little effort expended from the offender. Unless the dude is actually stealing your gear and gold (or causing them to rot), it’s a completely different subset of system abuse.

The point being, if you just walk away from the computer when someone is camping you in the jumping puzzle, you lose…the chest at the end. And that’s about it. Four weeks’ worth of magic finding gear won’t disappear on you if you just alt+f4, so it’s not griefing.

~Terraa

How can doing pvp in a pvp Zone be grieving?

Some people here should try out EvE online, then they know the true meaning of the word grieving :P

Nick.6972:

I love to grief people in WvW’s JPs.

But before that, pretend to be friendly, let that person/persons do the JP with you, and at the end, knock down them off the edge.

Why is this not surprising?

I do understand why it’s annoying. I personally would not attack people on a jumping puzzle. However it is a PvP jumping puzzle and you got to understand that PvP will happen there. The developers themselves even said that there’s nothing wrong about PvPing there.
What really ticked me off though is putting one of the Aetherblade Retreat satchels on a WvW jumping puzzle. Being a PVE player I sweared my head off (in reality, not in the in game chat of course) trying to get the satchel and being repeatedly killed while doing so.

PvP in a PvP zone is not griefing.

The funny part about this is I was given an infraction from posting about this very same thing and my post removed, can we say double standards.

Greifing is when they camp and never let anyone through. Especially when people are there for the achiement. Like the Cache being in the Oblivion. And I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why I’m seeing people camp the JP. I’ve never seen anyone just camp and troll people in any of the WvW JPs untill this point. This is what I call griefing. If it wasn’t for the fact Anet put something unrelated to WvW in WvW was a mistake on their part. But should people camp and troll people when they know they are there for the cache. I was sitting on a ledge because one server was camping the entire JP and we weren’t the only server waiting for them to give up and go home the third server was waiting as well. This is trolling/griefing just for the sake of it. And no large WvW group is going to help people go through the JP. I’ve asked. But woah unto me to think people have at least some decency. I don’t think what they did was right. Not during this time period anyway.

Wolfheart.1938:

PvP in a PvP zone is not griefing.

THIS.

Im Mudbone.1437:

The funny part about this is I was given an infraction from posting about this very same thing and my post removed, can we say double standards.

Probably because you violated forum rules that made constructive discussion impossible. If I remember correctly, you violently claimed you reported all those people. Obviously, that style isn’t acceptable. Both threads being about the Obsidian Sanctum is not relevant to the infraction, nor is it double standards. This thread is a little more civilized. Please keep it so.

Just to clear any doubts.

marnick.4305:

Im Mudbone.1437:

The funny part about this is I was given an infraction from posting about this very same thing and my post removed, can we say double standards.

Probably because you violated forum rules that made constructive discussion impossible. If I remember correctly, you violently claimed you reported all those people. Obviously, that style isn’t acceptable. Both threads being about the Obsidian Sanctum is not relevant to the infraction, nor is it double standards. This thread is a little more civilized. Please keep it so.

Just to clear any doubts.

Nothing violent in said post, I still have the infraction notice with post quoted by moderator that I could PM to you.

This again?

What’s next? Players grieving others in PvE by completing DEs before they get there?

fuzzypanda.9365:

Greifing is when they camp and never let anyone through. Especially when people are there for the achiement. Like the Cache being in the Oblivion. And I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why I’m seeing people camp the JP. I’ve never seen anyone just camp and troll people in any of the WvW JPs untill this point. This is what I call griefing. If it wasn’t for the fact Anet put something unrelated to WvW in WvW was a mistake on their part. But should people camp and troll people when they know they are there for the cache. I was sitting on a ledge because one server was camping the entire JP and we weren’t the only server waiting for them to give up and go home the third server was waiting as well. This is trolling/griefing just for the sake of it. And no large WvW group is going to help people go through the JP. I’ve asked. But woah unto me to think people have at least some decency. I don’t think what they did was right. Not during this time period anyway.

that is still not griefing, still being a pvp zone. Of cause people took advantage when the cache was put in there. They knew there would be a lot more activity there and the opportunity for easy kills. And yes, it makes sense to do this, leveling your rank and collecting achievements. If some group was camping there for hours, well, you gotta ask the question why in the entire time you did not organize a group of like-minded people to deal with them. That would be an adequate response in a pvp zone instead of pulling the griefing card.

fuzzypanda.9365:

Greifing is when they camp and never let anyone through. Especially when people are there for the achiement. Like the Cache being in the Oblivion. And I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why I’m seeing people camp the JP. I’ve never seen anyone just camp and troll people in any of the WvW JPs untill this point. This is what I call griefing. If it wasn’t for the fact Anet put something unrelated to WvW in WvW was a mistake on their part. But should people camp and troll people when they know they are there for the cache. I was sitting on a ledge because one server was camping the entire JP and we weren’t the only server waiting for them to give up and go home the third server was waiting as well. This is trolling/griefing just for the sake of it. And no large WvW group is going to help people go through the JP. I’ve asked. But woah unto me to think people have at least some decency. I don’t think what they did was right. Not during this time period anyway.

It does not matter why you are in a PvP zone. It does not matter that you are there for a reason other than PvP. It does not matter that you are there for a living story element. The fact of the matter is that the zone is intended for PvP. If you choose (and it is a choice as no one is forcing you to do so) to enter a PvP enabled zone, for any reason, you are agreeing to participate, even if only passively, in PvP.

People do have some decency. They are decently waiting for you in a section of a PvP zone, decently attacking you in that PvP zone, and decently defeating you in that PvP zone. They are, with all decency, playing the game as it is intended. The only indecent behavior here is insulting others for PvPing in a PvP zone.

Other players are the challenge that is meant to be overcome in order to gain rewards in a PvP zone. Would you complain that NPCs in a PvE zone are not acting with decency because they don’t fall over dead at a glance, allowing you to get that ori node, or boss chest, or whatever without a fight ?

Im Mudbone.1437:

marnick.4305:

Im Mudbone.1437:

The funny part about this is I was given an infraction from posting about this very same thing and my post removed, can we say double standards.

Probably because you violated forum rules that made constructive discussion impossible. If I remember correctly, you violently claimed you reported all those people. Obviously, that style isn’t acceptable. Both threads being about the Obsidian Sanctum is not relevant to the infraction, nor is it double standards. This thread is a little more civilized. Please keep it so.

Just to clear any doubts.

Nothing violent in said post, I still have the infraction notice with post quoted by moderator that I could PM to you.

Sure feel free.

So how does one kill the grievers if they are standing at the traps causing crippled and making it virtually impossible for anyone to jump the ledges?

This entire thread falls flat on its face because they’re not griefers. They’re playing the kittening game. They’re PvPing in a PvP area. They’re keeping you busy, killing you, and denying your side otherwise free resources. They’re doing more for their team than you are.

And even if they weren’t, they’re killing people in PvP. If it’s not convenient for you that’s exclusively your problem.

Chase.8415:

So how does one kill the grievers if they are standing at the traps causing crippled and making it virtually impossible for anyone to jump the ledges?

Bring more people than they can trap, spread out over their cooldowns, and let the beatings commence.

Chase.8415:

So how does one kill the grievers if they are standing at the traps causing crippled and making it virtually impossible for anyone to jump the ledges?

You don’t. Anytime you actually have a chance they simply log off, or leave you alone and go kill that single person in the different place of the map. Griefers are not interested in fighting (or at least not without heavily stacking the deck in their favour) – give them a real challenge of skills, and they will run away from it.
And most of the campers in WvW JP’s belong to that group. There are also some real PvPers, but they are rare.

That’s by the way, what separates griefers from normal PvPers – intention. Where one group thrives on competition and challenges (or at least claims they do), the other is interested only in making other people angry.

wow another thread made about this, how about go and learn to pvp scrubs cause this is wvw , so we are allowerd to kill people there.

I and a few others literally res fought for over an hour without too many giving in. I only went in there to complete the jp to get to the cache or else you would never catch me in the jp. I was actually surprised that any enemies would be in there considering the main force could have used those bodies….JQ, i’m looking at you!

Haven’t been back in there since that day. Those kitten aetherblades are some sneaky characters. First, they sneak into Lions Arch. Then they sneak past the Lionguard and enter the portal leading to EB. Then they make their way to the Obsidian Sanctum portal. After avoiding players from their own realm, they make their way through the jp avoiding players from all three Warring realms only to set up shop up top. Then it finally turns out that they are crappy fighters and are pushovers. Aetherblades, Love you guys!

Dropping from the sky seemed to work better for me…just doesn’t seem feasible that these lames could pull off something like that. Even their leader couldn’t hide for too long once we found out her existence. She now sits in jail hearing the sounds of the portals around her. She did make some threats though, so maybe we don’t have the whole story yet. Gotta love the not so secret jp in gendarran to boot. Stealthers they are not, then again…no one saw them building these places.

Anyhow…Anet, keep pve achievements like this one out of WvW. It’s already bad enough that you have to enter EB to even get there possibly taking a spot from someone who the map team needs. How bout you turn Obsidian Sanctum into a WvW map the size of a BL…..make it a mountain, game becomes king of the mountain.

or keep it’s size and put a portal in LA.

I agree though with most everyone here, pvp in a pvp zone is what is supposed to happen. Unwritten rule doesn’t mean don’t watch your back. You may let someone get a pass, but you have to treat them like a rabid dog…be ready to put them down cuz they turned on you.

Unspoken rule? Dude there are no rules. You’re living in a fantasy world. Griefers gonna grief. If they didn’t want pvp to happen in obsidian sanctum, they wouldn’t have made it possible.

Thanks for all the insights. I went in during the non-griefing hour block (this morning) where the JP was nearly empty with non-hostile invaders and got both chests.

Akari Storm.6809:

Anyhow…Anet, keep pve achievements like this one out of WvW. It’s already bad enough that you have to enter EB to even get there possibly taking a spot from someone who the map team needs.

I agree though with most everyone here, pvp in a pvp zone is what is supposed to happen. Unwritten rule doesn’t mean don’t watch your back. You may let someone get a pass, but you have to treat them like a rabid dog…be ready to put them down cuz they turned on you.

^
This

There is no unwritten rule, some people choose to not kill in JP, others do, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen

Its a map designed to grief. Traps, choke points, dark room.

Why do people fail to understand this? You go into this map and start wondering why people are playing it the way it was intented.

Chase.8415:

So how does one kill the grievers if they are standing at the traps causing crippled and making it virtually impossible for anyone to jump the ledges?

use that 5 minutes invisible buff…

also as pve player you should know to Watch the ledges… not jump them :p

Terrahero.9358:

Its a map designed to grief. Traps, choke points, dark room.

Why do people fail to understand this? You go into this map and start wondering why people are playing it the way it was intented.

Oh boy. This kind of argument can be applied to so many other things. Zerging? Eyefinity? Working as intended. Arrow cart spam? By design. Perma-stealth thieves? Also by design. Yet there are 10,000 threads complaining about those, many by elite hardcore PvPers on WvW.

Looks like complaints can’t just be dismissed by appealing to the devs’ intentions (we know the devs are so bad at doing some things).

You’re argument is terribly dishonest aeflune. I hardly doubt that you cannot see the difference between the design of the EB JP and the way players use the tools given to them. Also, “elite hardcore PvPers” don’t complain about perma-stealth Thieves, it is generally only new and lower skilled players that do.

Dishonest? Perhaps you can point out how instead of being vague?

What’s the difference between the design of the EB JP and the design of arrow carts? Or the design of WvW as a whole that clearly favours higher populations and encourages zerging? You’re telling me that the designers’ intentions are clear in one case and not in another? Please demonstrate your point clearly.

Also you’re absolutely wrong that hardcore WvW players don’t complain about perma-stealth thieves. I see a lot of regulars on this forum who do that. Maybe you’d like to cite an imaginary group of elite WvWers who don’t complain about perma-stealth (maybe they play thieves?), but I’d definitely call the regulars here hardcore WvWers.

You were implying that Anet put in those traps, the darkroom, those rocks, choke points, and the Colosseum in the EB JP by accident. I am saying that you’re smarter than that, and you don’t actually believe what you implied there.

As for these “hard core WvWers who complain about perma-stealth”, they can’t be “hard core” because permastealth is no threat to the objective game that is WvW. Again its mostly new people and the less skilled that complain about that.

You mean to say that Anet did not buff ACs on purpose? Hmm, why don’t you tell Devon that?

And clearly you either don’t read this forum much at all, or you’re engaging in some no true Scotsman kind of reasoning about permastealth complainers.

aelflune.8590:

And clearly you either don’t read this forum much at all

That would be true. But from what I’ve seen that seems to be the case.