Guild Wars 2

Hi folks.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but Anet is actually developing things for wvw. The fact that we’ve heard nothing about it is one things, but I’m here to (maybe) stir up some drama about a different aspect of this.

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

HOW IS THIS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING? What part of game development has its developers draw a group to test it from outside the population currently playing the content? I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things? We know the kind of kitten that went down if EotM and the desert borderlands. If Anet honestly thinks that they can pull the same kitten and get a better result, I feel even more sorry for the state of this game.

Sounds about right.
Though if everything is already decided and no actual input is sought that’d pretty much be the other betas.. So who cares which group the “testers” are drawn from?

At this point, why are you surprised at this?

Melanion.4892:

I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things?

Is it not obvious? They want to make the game mode appealing to more than just WvW players. Good luck to them, but I don’t think it will work.

They’d need to run the last of us off first.

If this is true, then i expect them to invite wvw player to next beta test of the new pve raid wing.

A-Net for one time in this gamemode can you do the right thing, and invite REAL wvw guilds, roamers and so on. People who have at least 5 k playtime in wvw or more, people who are active every day. THEY know what we need. PvE guilds don’t. They have no clue, they see it from another perspective then the players that are in wvw every day.

For them a oase events is super cool, for us it is bs and making lag and game unplayable. For them a lord that works like a boss is superinteresting, for us it is bs, we don’t care about the bosses and should not have to dance around and avoid a lord rather then focus a fight, because this is why we are there. Fights, not pve.

A couple guilds were invited in to test PVE raid content early. But I have seen nothing to suggest that any guilds are being invited in to test new WvW content, what is your source?

Caliburn.1845:

A couple guilds were invited in to test PVE raid content early. But I have seen nothing to suggest that any guilds are being invited in to test new WvW content, what is your source?

A guildmate told me about two weeks ago that a large gaming community guild he’s in got invited to send a limited number of players to an “alpha test of the WvW overhaul”.

I am not surprised at all that they would draw on non-WvW players for beta testing WvW content. Clearly this is how we got EtoM AND the new BLs. WvW is done, toast, stick a fork in it. Anet never has and, in my opinion, never will support the way we actually want to play it.

I care deeply about World vs World and think I would be fairly good at assessing player concerns regarding the testing.

Which is why I have nothing to do with this.

Now to get to Dragon’s Stand. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to lock mastery points behind adventures like that?

Anet: We love listening to feedback from players we like and say nice things, espeically if they are well-known PvE streamers or e-sporters.

Well, if this is true, I have little faith that the Overhaul will be any good, if PvE guilds that probably don’t play that much WvW are actually giving feedback. You will get maps like EotM or DL, full of PvE gimmicks that no one asked for. Please invite real WvW guilds to test the Overhaul. Would you invited PvP guilds to test raids? No. So don’t invite PvE guilds to test WvW. Get your kitten together, Anet. Black Desert is around the corner.

I also would like see a list of all the guilds that have been invited to test this Overhaul. Like they did with the raids.

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

Caliburn.1845:

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

All of them.

Add in PvX guilds too. There’s also plenty of players who play WvW regularly or semi-regularly who are not members of <insert celebrity WvW guild here>. It shouldn’t be difficult to pull out of data which accounts spend time in WvW. And consider those accounts of the players who spend 8 hours a day or more scouting and putting up siege and defending? You know them, every server has them; the guys who you think are nuts for playing more than you. They were on before your raid started and they are still doing callouts when you are ending your raid. They probably have many more hours in WvW than the typical “real” WvW hardcore guild. Hehe.

But this is why it’s obvious Anet wants to make the game mode appeal to PvE players too.

Real WvW guilds in my book are simply guilds that play WvW, be that do PPT guilds, GvG guilds, fight oriented guilds, small scale roaming guilds, havoc guilds. Basically guilds that spend the majority of their time in WvW and have WvW as their primary gamemode.
Sorry, maybe my choice of words wasn’t the best. (English is not my native language)

if you like meta-events, you are not a wvw guild
if you cared about changes to the shatterer, you are not a wvw guild
if you have tried out your gliders in open tyria just for fun, you are not a wvw guild
if you thought the HoT expansion synchronized well with _______, you are not a wvw guild.

LetoII.3782:

Sounds about right.
Though if everything is already decided and no actual input is sought that’d pretty much be the other betas.. So who cares which group the “testers” are drawn from?

Given the apparent timeline for the overhaul (3rd quarter or early 4th quarter this year) I would have thought this was more a proper beta where they will go away and make changes after it, so the guilds chosen do matter. PvE guilds testing WvW is probably why we got all the PvE crap in HOT in the first place. If this is true it just shows that they cannot learn from their mistakes.

Chaba.5410:

Is it not obvious? They want to make the game mode appealing to more than just WvW players. Good luck to them, but I don’t think it will work.

Thats how we ended up with the HOT changes in the first place and look how that turned out.

Caliburn.1845:

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

All kinds of guilds that WvW, really. Has anyone with half a brain ever suggested otherwise? The WvW guild that got the invite has a friendly dev on their side and they’re a fight-oriented guild.

I don’t want to throw out names or anything because I don’t want the drama to be directed at the guilds. I want to be clear that if we’re going to be mad/upset at anyone here it’s Anet. I suppose kudos is in order for the dev who contacted a wvw guild to see if they wanted to beta test, but they could have found a guild that’s raided in the past 3 months.

They invited a PvE guild ?

Sounds familiar…… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LhvuomaJaY
Looks like the design decisions flow down from the top.

Caliburn.1845:

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

A “real” WvW player/guild would actually have to care about the score and outcome of a WvW match. If you think caring about the score is being too strict. Then try going into any other part of the game, like say Ranked sPvP, and say “I don’t care about the score”. Go into a Raid, a Dungeon, a Fractal, or anywhere in PvE and say, “I don’t care about beating the Boss.”

Very easy to be into the score on certain servers… Less so on others.

morrolan.9608:

Chaba.5410:

Is it not obvious? They want to make the game mode appealing to more than just WvW players. Good luck to them, but I don’t think it will work.

Thats how we ended up with the HOT changes in the first place and look how that turned out.

Yea, no argument there. :p

I think some of the HoT changes though came from WvW players too. I can see how some of the changes attempted to “fix” certain issues that players have complained about in the past, such as weak defense against ktrains, breaking up zergs, etc. I wouldn’t exactly say they were successful…

Well glider skins are more important anyway

Yea, look at that. I get that the guys designing the gliders probably don’t work on WvW, but what if one of those guys knows how to make something that’s not a glider and helps make something useful in WvW… Imagine that, game developers being good at making more than one thing…

anet’s chocie of testers is puzzling
for raid, they get the top of the cohort instead of the mainstream
for wvw, they get the unrelated cohort instead of the mainstream

Not that I have a hard time believing anet would do something so…predictable…
but is there a source for this info? I wouldn’t mind reading about it, thanks in advance.

Melanion.4892:

Yea, look at that. I get that the guys designing the gliders probably don’t work on WvW, but what if one of those guys knows how to make something that’s not a glider and helps make something useful in WvW… Imagine that, game developers being good at making more than one thing…

Tbh to me it feels like they’re working on a next game and these things we get are just “fillers”, small shiny things to attract more people to the game. But at the same time they could improve the other game modes..? So it’s that, or they really don’t give a f about wvw and passionate players. I enjoy the game, haven’t played for months (not because of the game), but for those who played constantly it has to be frustrating indeed.

Melanion.4892:

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

I now officially have no hope for this game.

X T D.6458:

Not that I have a hard time believing anet would do something so…predictable…
but is there a source for this info? I wouldn’t mind reading about it, thanks in advance.

As I mentioned previously, I don’t want to name the guilds because I have friends in these guilds and don’t want any of them to be removed from the testing cohort, etc. However, I hear directly from these friends that their guild leaders or someone in their guild has been approached about doing such a thing. They’re reliable sources and I’d hate for them to stop telling me these things because then their guilds wouldn’t get these opportunities. One of the guys I know in the PvE guild plays WvW quite regularly, so I’m hoping that at least that gives us a glimmer of hope, but still… the fact that he’s getting in because of PvE and not because of the numerous WvW guilds he is or has been in astounds me.

Melanion.4892:

X T D.6458:

Not that I have a hard time believing anet would do something so…predictable…
but is there a source for this info? I wouldn’t mind reading about it, thanks in advance.

As I mentioned previously, I don’t want to name the guilds because I have friends in these guilds and don’t want any of them to be removed from the testing cohort, etc. However, I hear directly from these friends that their guild leaders or someone in their guild has been approached about doing such a thing. They’re reliable sources and I’d hate for them to stop telling me these things because then their guilds wouldn’t get these opportunities. One of the guys I know in the PvE guild plays WvW quite regularly, so I’m hoping that at least that gives us a glimmer of hope, but still… the fact that he’s getting in because of PvE and not because of the numerous WvW guilds he is or has been in astounds me.

Ah I see, but like I said, it doesn’t surprise me

PvE guilds tests WvW? Eeeeeeeeeeeeepic idea

Next time WvW guild will test PvP maps and PvP guilds test PvE events? OMG this sounds like end of GW2

If you could reveal some crucial information about what are they doing…

It sounds like a bait to me.

Just imagine how they can screw it even more up. And it will happen don’t worry.

Really ? Can we have anet statement about this ? I think pve players should test pvp maps as well, so we will have more mobs on temple.

Sayak.6473:

Really ? Can we have anet statement about this ? I think pve players should test pvp maps as well, so we will have more mobs on temple.

Nah i am thinking a skyhammer on each point

A major population loss is in the balance when Anet screws this up. Many large guilds and many friends I know are giving the game 4 months max to see if Anet actually can fix WvW. No one has confidence as you can see what goes on as the OP has posted rumor or not.

MORE DINOSAURS

It should be open beta for every wvw player to test. How can you actually test something when only a few chosen ones are testing it? There are so many types of play styles that just getting certain guilds, certain play styles or streamers won’t be enough. Unless the maps are full of players when tested, I’d expect the same results we got from the desert bl beta.

I wish they would invite the guild I am in. We are WvW-centric and want to see what A.Net has in store so we can give them our opinion.

Chaba.5410:

Caliburn.1845:

Who are “real” WvW guilds?

PPT guilds? GvG guilds? Roaming guilds?

All of them.

Add in PvX guilds too. There’s also plenty of players who play WvW regularly or semi-regularly who are not members of <insert celebrity WvW guild here>. It shouldn’t be difficult to pull out of data which accounts spend time in WvW. And consider those accounts of the players who spend 8 hours a day or more scouting and putting up siege and defending? You know them, every server has them; the guys who you think are nuts for playing more than you. They were on before your raid started and they are still doing callouts when you are ending your raid. They probably have many more hours in WvW than the typical “real” WvW hardcore guild. Hehe.

But this is why it’s obvious Anet wants to make the game mode appeal to PvE players too.

pug 4 life :P

quoted because this pretty much describes me and many people I know that are not even in dedicated wvw guilds.

You are all running wild with a rumor mill and an either jealous OP, or a pot stirrer.

Let this go at this point. Until you have proof of anything at all, you are all running wild with conjecture.

Second hand source, check. Unverifiable, check. No idea what Anet may or may not be actually testing, check.

Even if it is all true, it is an alpha test and they may just be load testing. I think we can put away the pitch forks on this one.

Straegen.2938:

Second hand source, check. Unverifiable, check. No idea what Anet may or may not be actually testing, check.

Even if it is all true, it is an alpha test and they may just be load testing. I think we can put away the pitch forks on this one.

Why do you think I didn’t contribute this information for the past two weeks until someone else started a thread on it? I trust my guildmate who told me his experience. We’ve been playing this game together since Jan 2013. I don’t expect anyone else to believe it. Not my problem.

Chaba.5410:

Why do you think I didn’t contribute this information for the past two weeks until someone else started a thread on it? I trust my guildmate who told me his experience. We’ve been playing this game together since Jan 2013. I don’t expect anyone else to believe it. Not my problem.

The points still stand. The information you are posting is second hand, we don’t know what ANet might be testing and there is no way to verify any of this. There is absolutely no reason for anyone on here to get upset about this rumor and that is all that it is.

For all we know your friend has a prior NDA which is why he may have been chosen to Alpha. It could also be he is setting you up for a great Aprils Fools. The only people that actually know don’t post on these forums.

Like I wrote, no expectation and not my problem. Wasn’t trying to overturn your point either.

I think the problem is that these sentiments are here regardless of whatever is or isn’t happening based on previous action.

It seems clear to me that during testing for recent WvW content that they didn’t seem to take in account actual WvW’ers commentary very well as seen from the complaints from the beta forums mirrors the complaints we have on these forums and of course a giant thread on top already makes this sentiment very clear. Yea, sure, you shouldn’t take the forum community as representative as a whole but trying to claim WvW is fine and dandy sounds really hard to believe. This isn’t to mention the complaints I’ve heard in game from folks; sure they’re anecdotal but honestly I haven’t really heard much in defense of the new content beyond “try it out longer” and “It’s not that bad”. That I think is a problem.

Basically, whatever new WvW overhaul is shrouded in mystery, and at this point on regardless of what anyone imagines, this is a bad spot and how they aren’t reaching out to wide segments of the community is a bit disturbing but not surprising. To be fair, I am aware they have sought out the insight of t1 commanders and those have led to some interesting changes (read: with actual substance) but I think it may not be enough.

And sure, I also understand that releasing info too early may cause panic, but I’m afraid at this stage that should really no longer a concern as there really is little to lose at this point.

All and all, the current direction of actions does not inspire confidence. The fact that they’d rather post on Reddit and also have this cloud of secrecy and vagueness has increased the gap between player and developer. And this is not just a WvW thing; it’s a HoT thing.

Although they might be trying to test how intuitive the changes are in regards to inexperienced players, in order to test accessibility. Well, that’s something to think about at least.

ArchonWing.9480:

Although they might be trying to test how intuitive the changes are in regards to inexperienced players, in order to test accessibility. Well, that’s something to think about at least.

Things like the new waypoint rules for “spawn keeps” is not intuitive at all. :/

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but Anet is actually developing things for wvw. The fact that we’ve heard nothing about it is one things, but I’m here to (maybe) stir up some drama about a different aspect of this.

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

HOW IS THIS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING? What part of game development has its developers draw a group to test it from outside the population currently playing the content? I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things? We know the kind of kitten that went down if EotM and the desert borderlands. If Anet honestly thinks that they can pull the same kitten and get a better result, I feel even more sorry for the state of this game.

ROFL.

That’s the freaking problem, Anet invited a “PVE” (yes, read it again, PVE) guild to test the upcoming changes that they want to put into WvW. Do I need to point out what is wrong with that approach? Do we need more PvE events in WvW?

I think everyone, even the OP, may be missing the take home lesson here. Inviting a few guilds to beta test regardless of their play orientation is not going to create an environment where suddenly Anet Devs understand how to design WvW maps or gameplay. The 2 maps that have already been released are clear evidence of a serious lack of a fundamental understanding of how WvW actually works. There was SO MUCH FEEDBACK after EtoM was released, yet the Devs made the new BLs that contain many of the same problems inherent in EtoM. And you simply cannot beta WvW without A LOT OF PLAYERS, a lot more than a couple guilds. Anet still doesn’t realize they really have to do an open beta, and my guess is they don’t have the devs and manpower to support that…

Whoever designed the original BLs and EBG pretty obviously has not participated in the WvW design process for a LONG TIME. Those devs are either gone, or moved to Esports. And speaking of which, just take a look at stronghold… Same problem, sPvP now with more PvE added.

rchu.8945:

Melanion.4892:

Hi folks.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware, but Anet is actually developing things for wvw. The fact that we’ve heard nothing about it is one things, but I’m here to (maybe) stir up some drama about a different aspect of this.

Anet has been inviting guilds to participate in the ‘beta’ or whatever you’d call it for WvW changes. However, of the 2 guilds I know that were invited, 1 still plays the game and it is a PvE guild. The WvW guild that I know has been invited died almost half a year ago and few of its members still play.

HOW IS THIS A THING THAT IS HAPPENING? What part of game development has its developers draw a group to test it from outside the population currently playing the content? I get maybe drawing in a few PvE folks to test things, but for the most part, when it comes to a WvW update, why do you not get actual (and current) WvW players to test things? We know the kind of kitten that went down if EotM and the desert borderlands. If Anet honestly thinks that they can pull the same kitten and get a better result, I feel even more sorry for the state of this game.

ROFL.

That’s the freaking problem, Anet invited a “PVE” (yes, read it again, PVE) guild to test the upcoming changes that they want to put into WvW. Do I need to point out what is wrong with that approach? Do we need more PvE events in WvW?

Wheres the proof?