Guild Wars 2

I knew from the second I saw the skill stats it was going to be a problem. The only thing that kept it from being OP is that the warrior was kinda a mess. Well seems they have found a build that works well.

Over the entire day I was hit with gunflame 48 times that I counted in my log. The problem comes in with numbers like the ones in the image below. With few exceptions that shot hits for north of 10k. Nothing else has hit me as hard as this skill. I haven’t actually seen a single skill pop me for over 10k all day except this one.

15k and nearly 18k from a single shot is absurd damage. Especially from a skill that can be spammed.

just got this one

I dont play my warrior must because they are STILL underpowered.

When they go berserk it is broadcast they turn bright red. Just run/hide/stealth/get away until it drops. It is a one trick pony. Other classes might not get the “WOW CRIT” but ive been 100-0’d by many classes.

fost.9167:

When they go berserk it is broadcast they turn bright red. Just run/hide/stealth/get away until it drops. It is a one trick pony. Other classes might not get the “WOW CRIT” but ive been 100-0’d by many classes.

Seeing this in skirmish is nearly impossible. If I were dueling, easy to interrupt but this thing is hitting me from nearly every direction. I don’t even mind that it hits hard but no skill should one shot a player.

Right now there is no counter play to this thing. Either a player sees it and hope they have dodges, blocks or invuln on tap or they die. Even if they do manage to miss the first one, another one is 5s or less if they have quickness running or chrono nearby.

You have not stated whether you were zerging or roaming so judging by the DMG logs with the pictures provided I’m going to assume you were on your Thief and that you were 1 vs 1’ng this gun flame warrior.

Last night my friend and I dueled and I got my behind handed to me 80% of the time because she timed her stolen warrior skills very well, evade spammed my skills or baited them out, camped stealth to waste my adrenaline and had quite the decent amount of stun breaks on hand.

Gun flame warrior is generally a 1 trick pony.

• Reflects hurt
• Camping stealth to waste their berserk mode timer
• kiting when/if they go into melee
• inturrupts/baiting out their endure Pain/invuls
• Losing LoS of their rifle “obstructed”

You state you got hit 48 times by historically one of the game’s most obvious skill animations made even more prevalent when a warrior enters berserk mode regarding the bright red/orange aura surrounding them, without using any form of dodges/reflects/stun breaks – then you deserve to get hit and I give you zero sympathy.

• be situationally aware

Gun flame warrior is not an uncommon build these days and is easily countered with previously mentioned methods in this post along with heavy condition spam, blinds and blocks if they are not running Signet of Might.

Basilisk Venom is unblockable; try using that paired with the Daredevil physical skill that blocks for a short duration then gives access to a knock down (forget the name sorry). This can be quite a fast CC chain on the warrior once you’ve either boon stolen (traited) his stability etc or wasted it’s timer by stealth camping.

Zephyra.4709:

You have not stated whether you were zerging or roaming so judging by the DMG logs with the pictures provided I’m going to assume you were on your Thief and that you were 1 vs 1’ng this gun flame warrior.

Skirmishing all day. Generally when I get hit, it is from a blind side or from long range. Seeing a 1500 range hit wind up in the middle of a 10 man rumble is REALLY difficult. In a solo fight, I am sure I can handle Gun Flame.

Generally after a big shot, I have time to react but not with this thing. I go from near full health to downed instantly. No other class in the game right now can do this at least on a non-channeled skill. I haven’t been hit by anything else even approaching these numbers. The worst part is this attack blasts a half dozen times in 30s. Even if I manage to duck 5 of the shots, the sixth one has been finding its mark.

BTW I am not typically a glass build. Today I have been running over 2.5k armor and 19k hp so full glass could easily see north of 20k hits.

Trying to block this skill is a terrible idea

You’d be hardpressed to find a consensus that gunflame belongs in teh game much less on the warrior class. It was something made by the warrior community out of desperation to compete in pvp. That said, anet is aware of it and it is still in the game. Your problems really seems to be that you don’t know how to counter it. I would defer you to the many posts above that shed light on this. If you seek more info, just go to your class subsection and ask for help there.

Gunflame is super cheesy, at the very least the damage levels for it should be swapped with Eviscerate. Why does a 1500 range attack that’s easy to land do more damage than a close-range telegraphed melee attack?

fost.9167:

I dont play my warrior must because they are STILL underpowered.

When they go berserk it is broadcast they turn bright red. Just run/hide/stealth/get away until it drops. It is a one trick pony. Other classes might not get the “WOW CRIT” but ive been 100-0’d by many classes.

Try to see that in a WvW mess…

IMO, nothing should ever have the power to 100-0 in one attack no matter how squishy you are. 99% of your life, ok, but not 100%. EVER. My favorite so far was a thief that BS me out of nowhere for 14+k… that is quite the auto-attack…

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

IMO, nothing should ever have the power to 100-0 in one attack no matter how squishy you are. 99% of your life, ok, but not 100%. EVER. My favorite so far was a thief that BS me out of nowhere for 14+k… that is quite the auto-attack…

Agreed. No skill should down a player instantly from any class. I haven’t been one shot by a thief in a LONG time.

Just for some comparison… Backstab doesn’t hit as hard, requires the player to be stealthed, they have to hit from behind, they have to be right next to the player, it cannot be spammed, they have to be complete glass (which is much glassier than a warrior can get) and even then it is single target and again doesn’t hit for as much.

Gun Flame pierces up to 5 targets, is an AoE, applies 3 stacks of burning, hits from 1500, is a finisher, has a 5 second cooldown and on a class that has easy access to multiple blocks/invulns, the largest HP pool and wears the heaviest armor. It is stoooopid OP.

Cerby.1069:

Your problems really seems to be that you don’t know how to counter it. I would defer you to the many posts above that shed light on this. If you seek more info, just go to your class subsection and ask for help there.

There is no counter to something that can effectively one shot from a very long range. The counter is to run a completely different class, get used to occasionally dying to it or wait out an inevitable nerf which could take months. I have already adjusted to the heavy bunker Tempest and trapper Dragon Hunter meta (as in avoid it) as well as pre-CoR double hits. I will adjust to this as well… just sucks that clearly ANet kittened this one.

In a skirmish or zerg fight, yes it is a powerful skill. That’s why if you’re in a coordinated group, or at least communicating with your server mates, you should always be sure to target and kill the Berserkers first.

I used to play quite a bit of Warrior and I dipped my toes in the Berserker spec as well. I didn’t care for what it had to offer because despite being able to one shot people from range, it’s only useful in team fights and even then, it’s not very good if you’re not capable of being extremely aware of the flow of a fight. Warrior’s might have high health and good defenses but trust me they will melt like butter on hot pavement if you put some pressure on them. Maybe not core Warrior’s, but a Gunflame Berserker definitely will. It’s not a whole lot different than being a full glass pew pew Ranger. You feel all big and mighty while you’re chewing through people’s health bars from range but the second someone turns their eye to you you run like a screaming little girl because you know if they spit on you you’ll die.

I don’t think the skill is OP to be honest. In team fights it’s very strong but again, just don’t let them free fire and it becomes a non-issue.

Why not target the warrior first? This is a glass warrior so he will insta die from a Glass what ever just as fast. I really dont understand the gripe with it?

Atm this is a power time in all phases of the game. Raids are about most dps and condi damage as mast as possible. PvP is about who lands the big hit first and WvW is the same. You either adapt to the new play styles or die off. If this warrior steps into DH trap he dies. Once again no counter, if he gets back stabbed by a thief and heart seekered he dies. Its not a warrior thing.

tbh gunflame needs a big animation addition. like crack shot . it’s to see when they use gunflame .

they are running & shooting that looks like auto attack but nuke with same animation .
an animation addition should be enough & 1 sec cast time, don’t care about the damage..

How much armor are you running , I’m guessing you were on thief?

I normally run 2400-2600 these days on backliners because of CoR and Gunflame…

On my necro I tried going 2200 armor , with the 22Kish HP and I believe I ate some 8K+ trueshots and 10K+ CoRs

Infusion.7149:

How much armor are you running , I’m guessing you were on thief?

I normally run 2400-2600 these days on backliners because of CoR and Gunflame…

On my necro I tried going 2200 armor , with the 22Kish HP and I believe I ate some 8K+ trueshots and 10K+ CoRs

I mentioned it above… 2.5k armor with almost 19k hp (fully buffed). I don’t run glass most of the time. Several different players have been whacking me with 15k to 18k Gunflames and I did not have vuln or anything running. The CoR double hits before the patch could hit for upwards of 12k but that was a bug. I don’t even know how the light armor/low hp classes manage this thing.

Its the CoR-drama all over again. The revenants were complete mess as a class with 1 single super skill, and once it got fixed, they became useless. Berserkers are same, 1 stupidly strong skill and everything else is meh. Yes, Gunflame should be fixed, and yet, the whole berserker class needs rework.

Straegen.2938:

Cerby.1069:

Your problems really seems to be that you don’t know how to counter it. I would defer you to the many posts above that shed light on this. If you seek more info, just go to your class subsection and ask for help there.

There is no counter to something that can effectively one shot from a very long range. The counter is to run a completely different class, get used to occasionally dying to it or wait out an inevitable nerf which could take months. I have already adjusted to the heavy bunker Tempest and trapper Dragon Hunter meta (as in avoid it) as well as pre-CoR double hits. I will adjust to this as well… just sucks that clearly ANet kittened this one.

Dude just read the other comments about how to counter…

It’s something you just have to learn. I can educate you here if you want or go to the warrior subsection and they will be able to give you the downlow (even though its dead and most of the people there r trolls now).

It’s already been said though:
-dodging counters completely (warriors don’t have heavey cc like other classes so dodging is eez 1v1)
-aegis or blocks counter unless the warrior proc’s “signet of Might” which lasts for 7s and has a 30 s cd. if you are a mesmer you won’t really care though since almost everything acts as an evade rather than a block.
-they have to be in berserker mode…red flames easy to see. If you are in zerg fights simply change your model settings so you can see it easier.
-they pretty much always run it with greatsword. 1 is basic damage attack, 2 is hundred blades which is stationary and 180 degress los and deals their heaviest dps, 3 is whirlwind which moves them in the direction and deals damage while making them invulnerable to new attacks, 4 is sword throw which goes out and comes back like boomerang, 5 is a movement attack which causes the warrior to move forward with burst of speed at the target and deliver a single strike it is easily dodged through terrain or movement given how buggy/tempermental it is. With the rifle it’s just the burst shot you have to worry about, which requires 3/4-full adrenaline to do it’s damage. Some warriors will take ‘to the limit’ a heal skill which grants full adrenaline on use (30 sec cd i think), or a signet granting precision passive and on use full adrenaline (45 sec cd i think). can’t really think of anything else of relevance atm

And there’s a couple other things but those are the main ones. It’s really not a big deal in the grand scheme, you just gotta learn how it works. Like you said there are a ton of other things to worry about already, and those you won’t have a counter for.

If it makes you feel better a mesmer was casting aoe that was hitting me with the same force a gunflame killshot does today….and they have insane dodges and invulnerabilities and hordes of clones blocking all los and stealths and ports and bagillion other things to kite you to death while they do it.

Like I said though I do think the whole concept of gunflame on warriors is stupid. I wouldn’t cry any tears if they removed it from warrior completely. And I main warrior so…ya

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

I wouldn’t say its as much this skill in particulars fault its just the intense power creep when the spec patch hit and after HoT’s new skills.

Regarding Gunflame I wouldn’t say its all a 1 trick pony cause GS is still a good weapon and most Gunflame builds use it in offhand so for certain classes it can be harder to counter. Plus the added fact that most Gunflame zerkers run Signet of Might for the 6s of unblockable attacks, which unblockable also goes through reflections so the only thing left is evade/dodge and for most classes all you get is 2 dodges and you have no defense left against it, and in a fight when the zerker uses Gunflame if they’re smart they’ll time it to hit you when you don’t have any endurance.

But yeah I gave up on builds other than straight up dmg or condi cause nowadays there is no room for defensive armors only skills. Used to run a PVT/Knight’s Engi with 3.1k armor and gunflame still hits me for 14k on the reg.

Arimas.3492:

I wouldn’t say its as much this skill in particulars fault its just the intense power creep when the spec patch hit and after HoT’s new skills.

Regarding Gunflame I wouldn’t say its all a 1 trick pony cause GS is still a good weapon and most Gunflame builds use it in offhand so for certain classes it can be harder to counter. Plus the added fact that most Gunflame zerkers run Signet of Might for the 6s of unblockable attacks, which unblockable also goes through reflections so the only thing left is evade/dodge and for most classes all you get is 2 dodges and you have no defense left against it, and in a fight when the zerker uses Gunflame if they’re smart they’ll time it to hit you when you don’t have any endurance.

Yeah, I remember laughing inside not long ago when I saw a gun flame attack aimed at me (again, not always easy to spot in the chaos of wvw) switching to earth for magnetic aura… what a disappointment to see myself hit the bucket for 16+k damage instead of reflecting it back to that one trick pony lame-o-tron excuse of build.

But honestly, I just accept that I will die to these kind of build. It’s the price to pay to play what I like how I like. I do think the damage is too high and no attack should ever 100-0 anyone no matter if you have light armor and 1000 toughness or not but nothing is perfect I guess.

It is hard to counter gun flame when in a large fight since you don’t even see it coming. I was getting instant downed in some SM lord room fights and found out what was doing it.. I never even seen the guy doing it to me either but it only took 1 shot. Hard to pick out 1 player in a sea of red.

For being able to do such gunflames the guy needs to run full zerk and probably,most likely…very likely also is not running def line.Means he has no cleansin and propably only 1x endure pain maybe stabi considering if he has both sig of might and fury or either one of them.Besides there’s still the ability to lose his los,get out of range if you dont have invulns ready.

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Caedmon.6798:

For being able to do such gunflames the guy needs to run full zerk and probably,most likely…very likely also is not running def line.Means he has no cleansin and propably only 1x endure pain maybe stabi considering if he has both sig of might and fury or either one of them.Besides there’s still the ability to lose his los,get out of range if you dont have invulns ready.

so where is my 1 shot button on my full zerker ele? I don’t have one and neither should any profession no matter what gear they are running…

I can go full bunker guardian and still get hit with high numbers from certain skills yet I hit like a wet noodle. It needs to be adjusted damage wise.

You basically hit 2 buttons for massive damage on a 1,200 range. Ppl won’t be able to really dodge it and you can stay ranged.
And btw: i wasnt even full zerker, i think marauder with kavalier/assassin mixed

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

For being able to do such gunflames the guy needs to run full zerk and probably,most likely…very likely also is not running def line.Means he has no cleansin and propably only 1x endure pain maybe stabi considering if he has both sig of might and fury or either one of them.Besides there’s still the ability to lose his los,get out of range if you dont have invulns ready.

so where is my 1 shot button on my full zerker ele? I don’t have one and neither should any profession no matter what gear they are running…

I can go full bunker guardian and still get hit with high numbers from certain skills yet I hit like a wet noodle. It needs to be adjusted damage wise.

Who says you need a One shot button on your ele ? And if you go full bunker guardian you shouldnt expect to do any dmg besides hitting like a wet noodle.

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

For being able to do such gunflames the guy needs to run full zerk and probably,most likely…very likely also is not running def line.Means he has no cleansin and propably only 1x endure pain maybe stabi considering if he has both sig of might and fury or either one of them.Besides there’s still the ability to lose his los,get out of range if you dont have invulns ready.

so where is my 1 shot button on my full zerker ele? I don’t have one and neither should any profession no matter what gear they are running…

I can go full bunker guardian and still get hit with high numbers from certain skills yet I hit like a wet noodle. It needs to be adjusted damage wise.

Who says you need a One shot button on your ele ? And if you go full bunker guardian you shouldnt expect to do any dmg besides hitting like a wet noodle.

hey if a few professions have a 1 shot button then I want one too.. Correct but I shouldn’t expect to get hit with high numbers yet I still do.

My guess, something is bugged with this skill. Its numbers on the wiki should not be consistently producing these size hits even with a perfect zerk build.

As for “countering” this. You can counter just about anything in 1v1. However this is WvW and seeing every shot coming when it is more than 5v5 is virtually impossible especially in skirmish where shots tend to hit from all directions. Even if you did counter this thing 3-4 times, they still have a couple more to hit a player with and that assumes you are only fighting one of them.

briggah.7910:

hey if a few professions have a 1 shot button then I want one too.. Correct but I shouldn’t expect to get hit with high numbers yet I still do.

This is the only non-channeled skill that can one shot me at least that I have found.

Straegen.2938:

Generally after a big shot, I have time to react but not with this thing. I go from near full health to downed instantly. No other class in the game right now can do this at least on a non-channeled skill. I haven’t been hit by anything else even approaching these numbers. The worst part is this attack blasts a half dozen times in 30s. Even if I manage to duck 5 of the shots, the sixth one has been finding its mark.

Very achievable on the thief, if not able to pump more damage.

The sacrifices made to achieve this kind of damage are bigger and more riskier than what GF warrior needs to make, however.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gun_Flame
“Despite the description text, this skill does pierce up to 5 targets, triggering the AoE explosion on each foe struck by the projectile. The 3 target cap applies to this AoE.

It is possible, although rare, for an enemy to be struck multiple times by this skill."

I think this anomaly may be the root cause?

(Berserker) Blood Reaction: 14% precision to ferocity (about 230% – 240% crit with zerker +scholar rune)

(Berserker) Always Angry : +7% damage in berserk mode for 15s

(Berserker) Bloody Roar : +10% in Berserk mode

(Discipline) Destruction of the Empowered: +3% damage per boon on target

(Discipline) Burst Mastery: +7% damage on burst

(Strength) Stick and Move: +10% damage when endurance isn’t full

(Strength) Berserker’s Power : +10-20% damage depending on adrenaline for 10s

Gun flame is between 3200 to 4200 tooltip depending on might stacks , if you have Signet of might

In theory, a zerker with Signet of might would be hitting for at max 8-10K crits on 2600 armor , provided they have 240% crit chance (not counting 10% from Scholar rune); a Sigil of Force (5%) +Scholar runes (10%) plus Always Angry (7%), Stick & Move (10%), Berserker’s Power (20%) would be 15K. I have to test it with guildies in the guild arena and get back to you on the specifics of this.

You have to multiply by 1.18 if you are wearing 2200 armor instead of 2600 armor , multiply by 1.08 if you are wearing 2400 armor , 1.04 if using 2500 armor.

Doesn’t killshot do a little more base damage, even with multipliers? Minus the burning and velocity though.

Killshot doesn’t have the burst / berserk mode damage modifiers and has a channel time

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Doesn’t killshot do a little more base damage, even with multipliers? Minus the burning and velocity though.

There is no channel on that skill that i know of as opposed to KS but to be perfectly fair and clear what I said applies to all skills that can 100-0 even the squishiest build.

Really big hits should have animation priority in big fights so you always see them coming, and all ranged one shots like this should have tells on the actual projectile as well imo (actually I think it does).

Stand The Wall.6987:

Really big hits should have animation priority in big fights so you always see them coming, and all ranged one shots like this should have tells on the actual projectile as well imo (actually I think it does).

the dude glows like a lightbulb then shoots a huge fireball

it’s pretty dang obvious if you’re paying attention to the rifle warrior, which you should be.

A thief does not have a shot that hits this hard. Once upon a time it did but those days are gone. The biggest hitter on the thief is now Pistol Whip and it is channeled. Huge Backstabs require a thief to go invis, pop cooldowns, get close and hit from behind. Even then it is single target, doesn’t hit as hard, doesn’t daze, doesn’t apply 3 stacks of burning, doesn’t pierce and cannot be effectively spammed.

I very rarely see 10k Backstabs and the biggest I was hit with all night tonight was 8k… The big Gun Flame shots lit me up including several in the 9k to 12k range. A few more above that and at least two at 14.5k and a whopping 16.2k.

choovanski.5462:

the dude glows like a lightbulb then shoots a huge fireball

it’s pretty dang obvious if you’re paying attention to the rifle warrior, which you should be.

With several enemies flying around, seeing a shot that rings out in 3/4 of a second is almost ridiculously hard to do. Yeah if I can see them AND I have the juice to get to them AND they aren’t surrounded by a bunch of bunker spam… sure there is some counter play.

This ability hits fast, hits from long range, hits frequently (can fire more times than a player has dodges, blocks, etc) and launches from a class with the largest base HP and armor pool.

For all the people stating L2P, did you see the server causing the damage? Have you faced JQ? There isn’t usually 1-5 people, there are lots (same for BG or YB)….. It isn’t exactly easy seeing a specific skill with so many peeps and tons of aoe to avoid….

Not a complaint, it is fun….

LoL at the OP….a thief complaining about Gunflame…thieves want to run around in zerk gear killing everyone but ask for a nerfing of other classes so they dont die…

Just learn to play OP.

It’s a L2P issue.
Try ask your thieves teammates to open their eyes. They wont be able to “oneshot” the gunflame warrior, but still to 100-0 him in less than a second. Cuz in fact maybe certain class dont have a one skill kill, but they’re combo are so quick that they can 100-0 you in the same time.
Also for people who are comparing gunflame to COR, they are kinda ignorant, gunflame need a set up, it’s not spammable (means that after 1-2 shots if you have signet of fury, you are a sitting duck), can be reflected, plus warrior dont have 999999 evades and double heals like revenant has, and has to run a NO support build with NO defenses, so gunflame warrior is not a win button, is an all in button. Meaning if you dont like all in gameplay, just dont play full zerker!
Really ele running full zerker was good 3 years ago, to counter gunflame you just have… to survive the gunflame!! After that the warrior wont be able to put any more pressure on you and ele could easily outheal his dmg if they stop going full glasses.
To be fair, i’ve never hit 17k in the server where i’m playing (Aurora Glade), so the problem is not the Gunflame build, but build people are using.

l2p issue? please.. the problem is in massive fights you do not even see it coming.

What did yo uexpect in this unbalanced game. Its all normal here. I wouldn’t be surprised if autoattacks doing 15k suddenly. Its all part of this perfect game.

RedBaron.6058:

LoL at the OP….a thief complaining about Gunflame…thieves want to run around in zerk gear killing everyone but ask for a nerfing of other classes so they dont die…

Just learn to play OP.

No skill under any circumstance should clock for 15k plus and certainly not one that isn’t channeled and at long range. None, period, zip.

Also, I play multiple classes not just thief. I only logged the damage from the thief cause that is what I was playing that day. Also I don’t run full zerk as I stated I had 2.5k toughness and nearly 19k health (Valkyrie, runes and a couple PVT).

As for spike damage the thief is not the biggest DPS class any longer and it isn’t even close. In fact I find the thief/Dare Devil under performing in almost every category except mobility.

Straegen.2938:

A thief does not have a shot that hits this hard. Once upon a time it did but those days are gone. The biggest hitter on the thief is now Pistol Whip and it is channeled. Huge Backstabs require a thief to go invis, pop cooldowns, get close and hit from behind. Even then it is single target, doesn’t hit as hard, doesn’t daze, doesn’t apply 3 stacks of burning, doesn’t pierce and cannot be effectively spammed.

I very rarely see 10k Backstabs and the biggest I was hit with all night tonight was 8k… The big Gun Flame shots lit me up including several in the 9k to 12k range. A few more above that and at least two at 14.5k and a whopping 16.2k.

If you’re stabbing < 10k on a build meant to deal damage you’re messing up somewhere. Even without the signets 10k+ is very doable in WvW.

Like I said, it’s much riskier than GF war because of melee/cooldowns/lower defenses, but such damage is very much achievable. GF war is just safer by a lot, and much easier to execute. I’m not justifying GF war but instead debunking the claim that such damage doesn’t exist on other classes, especially the thief.

The claims about the DD also lacking damage are untrue. If I really wanted to maximize DPH, I could drop Trickery for DD and have run Staff traited, and have pushed close to a 30k vault.

DD is superior to every other trait line the thief has except Trickery just because it’s irreplaceable due to its initiative gains. Otherwise it brings comparable damage to CS and DA with better cleansing than SA and evasion than Acrobatics. It’s straight-up power creep just like the rest of the Elite Specs and proclaiming it’s weak is just silly and mathematically incorrect.

Shala.8352:

It’s a L2P issue.
Try ask your thieves teammates to open their eyes. They wont be able to “oneshot” the gunflame warrior, but still to 100-0 him in less than a second. Cuz in fact maybe certain class dont have a one skill kill, but they’re combo are so quick that they can 100-0 you in the same time.
Also for people who are comparing gunflame to COR, they are kinda ignorant, gunflame need a set up, it’s not spammable (means that after 1-2 shots if you have signet of fury, you are a sitting duck), can be reflected, plus warrior dont have 999999 evades and double heals like revenant has, and has to run a NO support build with NO defenses, so gunflame warrior is not a win button, is an all in button. Meaning if you dont like all in gameplay, just dont play full zerker!
Really ele running full zerker was good 3 years ago, to counter gunflame you just have… to survive the gunflame!! After that the warrior wont be able to put any more pressure on you and ele could easily outheal his dmg if they stop going full glasses.
To be fair, i’ve never hit 17k in the server where i’m playing (Aurora Glade), so the problem is not the Gunflame build, but build people are using.

Except warrior has invulns and 20K health even with zerker gear. Even something as simple as dolyak signet or endure pain could be slotted. If you ditch discipline fior arms you can also use Burst precision for 100% crit chance (or simply use sigil of intelligence on the rifle), meaning you don’t need to run as high precision (so you can run pieces of valkyrie / crusader gear.)

CoR is no longer as spammable as before: it’s on 4 cooldown. Despite this, defending gun flame by stating CoR is also broken is rather petty. Roiling Mists , Ferocious Aggression (to an extent) & Cruel Repercussions should still get looked at. True shot in conjunction with DH damage modifiers , could also be looked at a bit but guardian has a rather low health pool (so using berserker is risky; marauder would give less crit damage %) & I’ve never seen it hit over 15K.

RedBaron.6058:

LoL at the OP….a thief complaining about Gunflame…thieves want to run around in zerk gear killing everyone but ask for a nerfing of other classes so they dont die…

Just learn to play OP.

Except he had 2.5k armor and 19K health , which isn’t full glass.

Thieves require much more tactics to kill things than firing a 1200 range gun flame.

In general, thieves and eles (not tempests, since they can overload / use auras for protection) need to be doing the highest damage when they have glassy gear. Otherwise there’s a disconnect between health/armor/mobility risk-reward.

For example, Meteor Shower has a 2 second channel and so does Barrage. DeceiverX’s screenshot sort of proves my point ; his Backstab (and whatever vulnerability he was applying) was absorbed before he could land the 19K hit. Both dagger-dagger and staff daredevil are melee range.

Shala.8352:

It’s a L2P issue.
Try ask your thieves teammates to open their eyes. They wont be able to “oneshot” the gunflame warrior, but still to 100-0 him in less than a second. Cuz in fact maybe certain class dont have a one skill kill, but they’re combo are so quick that they can 100-0 you in the same time.
Also for people who are comparing gunflame to COR, they are kinda ignorant, gunflame need a set up, it’s not spammable (means that after 1-2 shots if you have signet of fury, you are a sitting duck), can be reflected, plus warrior dont have 999999 evades and double heals like revenant has, and has to run a NO support build with NO defenses, so gunflame warrior is not a win button, is an all in button. Meaning if you dont like all in gameplay, just dont play full zerker!
Really ele running full zerker was good 3 years ago, to counter gunflame you just have… to survive the gunflame!! After that the warrior wont be able to put any more pressure on you and ele could easily outheal his dmg if they stop going full glasses.
To be fair, i’ve never hit 17k in the server where i’m playing (Aurora Glade), so the problem is not the Gunflame build, but build people are using.

No, it’s not l2p issue. It’s a legitimate one.

I play this game since beta and probably have more time playing than most people here on my main. The skills that do enough damage in a single shot to 100-0 any build are a problem that promote poor game play.

I’m seriously wondering why anybody would want to have that kind of skill around. How good are you supposed to be to 1 shot someone who never saw you from 1500 among a sea of red? Someone you come upon that has expended all his endurance and/or CD? Specially if you use unblockable means or are a collateral victim (3 targets) and not even need to channel. What kind of sad skill design is that?

By the way, for some builds that is far from true at all that all you need to beat the guy is to survive gunflame. I’ve seen enough fights vs such one trick pony players on my zerk staff ele to know even a poor player will force you to spend your endurance and push his invul button if you ever try to go for broke on him (which carry a lot of huge risks) leaving you in both case in an impossible situation. And contrarily to stealth users you can’t bail that easy. A glass war is a far cry from a glass ele. You still have 19k life 2.5 k armor not 12-13k and 2k armor. Even your reg skills will force the ele to use endurance or he will die.

I have no problem with skills that would remove 99% of the squishiest build but not 100% Let people at least have a tiny chance to react and push an ‘oh kitten’ button. Pretending that it’s people fault for playing squishy is a poor excuse for this.

Gunflame is one reason I am not too keen on a rifle option for the thief. It will be insisted it an assassin type weapon and these types of unwarranted numbers would likely happen from the safety of range. There are more and more skills creeping in that do as much if not more damage from great range and I can not see how it warranted.

I formally proposed a rifle option for the thief with comprehensive traits, skills, etc. that featured control-heavy and condition-heavy play while offering some profound DPS/ranged options at the expense of a high-risk style completely changing the way the thief plays while offering huge synergy with other builds, and it was rejected often because it wasn’t OP enough/not a 1HKO from 1500 range.

Can’t go around proposing reasonable/balanced ideas without people getting upset staunchly defending whatever overpowered thing it is that they’re currently using.