Guild Wars 2

Not sure,but there was a trait on warrior for 100% crit chance on burst “btw same as thieves one,for BS”.So it aint really true,that you have to be squishie “hello valkyrie” to hit like a truck with BS on thief or burst on warr.Just a side note

The way to fix Gunflame is to not run around in full zerker gear. The meta has made everyone glass so people are going to get destroyed by skills like this. If people start scaling back the power creep and going back to P/T/V gear you will see less people using these “OP” abilities.

Gun flame is strong, and really the only issue I have with it is, its got no animation give away aside from the fact they are in berserk. A lot of people have solid advice in here. See a warrior go into berserk put up reflect, or dodge. Majoirty of people using this skill combo, make it so obvious.

As for the insane damage, gunflame isnt the only skill like this tho; there is true shot, vault, CoR, etc I could go on. There are numerous high coefficient low cd skills, these kinds of one shots are pretty much available on every class, if you play glass. Being non glass helps in these situations, many cheese glass builds loose out by attrition. Get some armor, (calv solider, knights) gear watch them blow their load, /laugh and kill them.

Is it me or the ppl that reply simply ignore the previous argumentation the other side has put forth? It’s has if I had never replied 3 time in this thread going by some answers. And I was far from alone… How about arguing in good faith for a change?

Mm yeah, I still think warriors are not op or anything. The numbers need to be tuned for gunflame.

Maybe insane burst skills with short cooldowns is awful design in any PvP enabled mode? Especially with WvWvW’s less restrictive rule set in comparison to sPvP, the HoT power creep is left to run amok. Short, sparse and not fun, just how I like my fights! The combat system that was major in making this game shine is slowly circling down the drain.

Maybe if all thief players start to play warrior the Q_Q will subside…

Thief is completely OP but they still complain…

RedBaron.6058:

Maybe if all thief players start to play warrior the Q_Q will subside…

Thief is completely OP but they still complain…

This. Also come back after you played gunflame in a blob fight to tell us if your dps was better or lower than when you played thief. Also we would like to know how many oneshot kill you did, and how many oneshot death you recieved. Or even better, were you able to get in berserker mode more than 1 time in that blob fight?? And if so. how many gunflame did hit and kill before someone noticed you?

Shala.8352:

Also come back after you played gunflame in a blob fight to tell us if your dps was better or lower than when you played thief.

I did this yesterday. I used Valkyrie and Cavalier with Scholar so I was running with 3k armor, 25k HP, almost 2900 power and a 225 crit modifier. It used Burst Precision and Intelligence to keep the crits firing. I was melting players with this combo. I didn’t have any 18k hits but I was landing Gun Flame for 12k+ on most targets. I found quickly Signet of Might was crazy good with this build as I could cut through blocks easily.

The weak portion of the build was against condi and 1v1 fights were interesting. In a pack, I was lighting players up with little chance they could kill me.

DeceiverX.8361:

If you’re stabbing < 10k on a build meant to deal damage you’re messing up somewhere. Even without the signets 10k+ is very doable in WvW.

I was referring to backstabs in my combat log. I rarely see one against me for damage over 10k. As I also noted backstab requires more setup, isn’t as spammable, is melee, single target, etc. Gun Flame is WAY better than Backstab by a mile.

RedBaron.6058:

Thief is completely OP but they still complain…

Thief is OP post HoT? If you are dying to one thief, you either have zerg build or need to reevaluate your build. Thief has little chance against any of the bunker builds and is basically only good for cleanup these days. Given equal skill, a thief is very manageable for almost all of the elite specs.

grifflyman.8102:

The way to fix Gunflame is to not run around in full zerker gear. The meta has made everyone glass so people are going to get destroyed by skills like this. If people start scaling back the power creep and going back to P/T/V gear you will see less people using these “OP” abilities.

I still get hit for 10k with 3750 armor. It is spammable, heal skills are not.

Since roaming is dead and skill engagements are dead, I recently tagged along with a zerg as a glassy gun flamer to see what mischief I could create. I was in full Ascended Berserker’s armor and trinkets (power infusions where possible). The armor’s actually full of Strength runes and not Scholar which would be more damage. Since I’m not inclined to waste the resources to get an Ascended rifle, mine was only Exotic, but since rifle is the hardest hitting weapon in the game, it’s all right. I run Sigil of Intelligence so I know I’ll crit. And as a gnarly-fingered, grizzled and tiny asura Kill Shot specialist once told me: Sigil of Air is nice, but to guarantee that one-shot-kill, you want Sigil of Force, so that’s what I run.

A poster named Infusion started to put up the numbers, but inexplicably resorted to tooltip values and didn’t run the full math, so I’ll do that now. I had food and a wrench, and a party for max Might stacks. Since damage modifiers are multiplicative, the first shot out of the gate will be the following:

(Power * Weapon Strength (Avg) * Skill Coefficient * Runes of Strength * Sigil of Force * Stick and Move * Destruction of the Empowered (say 4 boons) * Burst Mastery * Always Angry * Bloody Roar * Critical Damage Multiplier)/Your Armor (No Protection)

For me in this set up, that was:
3500 * 1096 * 2.75 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.12 * 1.07 * 1.07 * 1.1 * 2.27 damage calculation. This hits the following three armor values for the following damage:

2000 Armor: 20481 damage
2500 Armor: 16385 damage
3000 Armor: 13654 damage

Just kill the Rifle Warrior, you say? Good idea! But until it’s time to shoot, I’m just another Warrior in the zerg with a sword in my hand. Are you going to pick me out of the crowd? If you do, how are you going to do enough damage to put me out of commission at that range? Gun Flame?

Just block or reflect it, you say? Good idea! That’s why I run Signet of Might, so that my shot is unblockable. (And if I’m still firing after that has worn off and you reflect it, it isn’t going to hit me; it’s going to hit one of my server-mates between us.)

Just dodge it when you see the Warrior light up, you say? Good idea! If you have the energy left after dodging the spam of Coalescence of Ruin and red circles, you can dodge! Only problem is: I run with a Scrapper, so when it’s time to shoot you, I step into the bubble of a Sneak Gyro and I’m completely invisible until the shot hits.

And that’s just the first shot. After it hits, I’m under the effects of Berserker’s Power, which is another 20% damage, increasing our earlier values to:

2000 Armor: 24578 damage
2500 Armor: 19662 damage
3000 Armor: 16385 damage

And after I’ve popped you and your nearest buddies like ambient creatures, I hope you have some condi-clear handy, because I’ve also applied 3 stacks of Burning for 3 seconds, which at 25 Might is another 2,230 damage (wah wah wah). And again, I’m not even optimized for max damage. So, yes, unless you’re a Soldier profession in full PVT, this is either a one-button-kill or close enough to it that the nearest sneeze will put you into downstate. Once I downed someone with one skill, I could keep shooting to finish him off, interrupting anyone trying to rez. Pretty stupid.

Gun Flame works for open-world PvE where you just want to stand back and see big numbers. It works for PvP where it can down someone trying to disengage or interrupt a stomp. It’s a lousy idea in WvW, where it’s just another silly mechanic to push us into trench warfare where nothing happens. But that was almost certainly a side effect of design and not even considered.

People, they don’t care about WvW. It’s going to be a mess for a long time.

huh.. Seems like i’m holding a record in “most dmg taken from single shot” here

I’m not sure if gunflame is such an isolated issue, but this thread is a good testament to the severity of the issues that plagues WvW.

First, the big systemic issues needs to be solved. The maps and events, the scoring system and the server-server (or group-group) balance that comes with stability and the ranged CC spam.

Then, when all of those things are done, Anet will have a long backlog of issues with massive power disparity between old specs and new specs. Like I said, gunflame isn’t really an isolated issue, it’s the same as with CoR, new thieves that chew through 20k+ HP and 3k+ AR before a heal goes off internal channel or the insane base damages of abilities on builds like Scrappers and Reapers. It’s just twice as high with little to no motivation.

While alot of those abilities (gunflame included) are intended to be “big attacks” there is a gross imbalance between them and old “big attacks” in both figures, counters and difficulty of application (or accuracy). I like that there are big attacks like gunflame, gravedigger or whatever else but it becomes ridiculous when their base damages are higher, cooldowns shorter, cost lower and application easier – so a single button pressed does more damage than a full Mesmer shatter rotation or more damage from a simple application mechanic than an Eles notoriously difficult-to-land dragon’s tooth. The latter is a good example of how big attacks can work. The new specs didn’t take that into consideration, at all it seems.

[/quote]

I still get hit for 10k with 3750 armor. It is spammable, heal skills are not.[/quote]

then play druid since warr cant kill competent druids,
about gunflame, yes hits like truck but if u remove this, we as warrs will be completely useless since we melt like butter when endure pain wears off.
in a sea of red its hard as hell to see it coming so we own ur kitten , but in 1v1 we simply melt cuz we cant sustain enough dmg.

Just ran into a warrior running this, nothing should do that much damage that quickly with 2 button presses. 0.75s isn’t long but with quickness on going berserk it’s just stupid.

Tried it and i hits like a truck yeah, but it’s a boring passive type of play for a warrior. I almost feel ashamed when using it. Melee all the way.

revox.8273:

about gunflame, yes hits like truck but if u remove this, we as warrs will be completely useless since we melt like butter when endure pain wears off.
in a sea of red its hard as hell to see it coming so we own ur kitten , but in 1v1 we simply melt cuz we cant sustain enough dmg.

In no way am I advocating nerfs to a warrior beyond Gunflame. In fact I think the melee warrior needs some serious love (as do most melee builds).

My basic point is that a non-channeled skill under normal circumstances should never hit for more than 10k or so on a medium armored target. Players should always have time to react to a single skill finding its mark. Now if a player has a bunch of stacks of vuln, the attacker amasses 25 stacks of might or some other scenario involving multiple skills, then we should see big hits but only in that circumstance.

If Gunflame is so OP why dont I see more warriors around in WvW?

LoL…I only see thieves everywhere…thief is completely OP right now, it really needs a nerf.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

apharma.3741:

Just ran into a warrior running this, nothing should do that much damage that quickly with 2 button presses. 0.75s isn’t long but with quickness on going berserk it’s just stupid.

you dont know how to use invulns,blocks,blinds,ports,stealth,leaps,reflects,interrupts ? Theres a kitten ton of counters to gunflame which all of you kittening noobs are missing

Cry for more nerfs please as its so justified as our healsig nerf back then a year or so back cus all of you kittening idiots cried about HEALSIG SO STRONG PLEASE NERF ! DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT !But now its been buffed back to regular numbers again since anet realized their mistake cus of ppl crying for a nerf that Wasnt justified.

Learn to kittening counter it because ive seen enough people smart enough how to.
Most gunflamers i encounter still suck on it with the few exceptions there.

if a warri goes into berserk when on rifle ( Which is kittening apparant enough ) You know he’s gonna gun you in a sec,so you wait with your invulns/ports or w/e you have untill he reaches that point..its 15 sec of you taking distance popping invulns,ports,blocks,reflects untill he turns normal again..Honestly its not as hard as you people make it look like.

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between and no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

Also,yes we do have endure pain but notice the only endure pain they have is on their util bar since most gunners do not run def line,its their Only invuln against dmg..most likely they have balanced stance + sig of fury on their trait line.So when u run into a gunflame and you notice he start off with ep and filling adren right away with fury ( look at his bar )..you take distance or save your reflect/block ( you do have em ) for when they go berserk..The animation to when warrs go into berserk is very obvious..what happens after is a gunflame..if you make sure you have your defensive stuff ready for that moment..it should be good..Otherwise dont be ashamed to get out of range untill berserk ends.btw,no we do not have any blocks available at all. ( Usual gunflame build is gs/rifle )

Also,pro tip ! Use los,objects or small hills that make their shots go obstruct.

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Yeah it’s chaotic in zerg fights,but doesn’t that count for every other class in those fights aswell ?Also if this happens in zerg fights,dont forget the guy is getting bufffed with probably 15 – 25might that he would never have gained himself. About the sacrificing part trust me,we Have to sacrifice defense line in order to make this damage,which means..No condi cleanse or stabi util trait,no dogged march,no adren hp regen,no endure pain trait..That’s a a Huge loss to our sustain.Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.Also the skill is Only unblockable if people build it..Signet of might is a utility which grants 6 sec of unblockable when used..that means they have to give up sig of fury,balanced stance Or endure pain util.Otherwise it means they only use the sig of precision trait which grants unblockable when a foe reaches 50%.Trust me,we dont have it all…Make a warr and try to make it happen,youl see the issues.We have to sacrfice Alot to make this work.

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Yeah it’s chaotic in zerg fights,but doesn’t that count for every other class in those fights aswell ? ABout the sacrificing part trust me,we Have to sacrifice defense line in order to make this damage,which means..No condi cleanse or stabi util trait,no dogged march,no adren hp regen,no endure pain trait..That’s a a Huge loss to our sustain.Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.Also the skill is Only unblockable if people build it..Signet of might is a utility which grants 6 sec of unblockable when used..that means they have to give up sig of fury,balanced stance Or endure pain util.Otherwise it means they only use the sig of precision trait which grants unblockable when a foe reaches 50%.Trust me,we dont have it all…Make a warr and try to make it happen,youl see the issues.We have to sacrfice Alot to make this work.

The chaos is the same for all but the effect of such a chaos will be a lot more important when you have 1 shot button options.

Beside, no matter how much I sacrifice on an ele it is impossible to achieve 1 button, 1 kill. And it’s the same for most other profession. You guys can and it’s not that costly all things being equal.

Subversion.2580:

I’m not sure if gunflame is such an isolated issue, but this thread is a good testament to the severity of the issues that plagues WvW.

First, the big systemic issues needs to be solved. The maps and events, the scoring system and the server-server (or group-group) balance that comes with stability and the ranged CC spam.

Then, when all of those things are done, Anet will have a long backlog of issues with massive power disparity between old specs and new specs. Like I said, gunflame isn’t really an isolated issue, it’s the same as with CoR, new thieves that chew through 20k+ HP and 3k+ AR before a heal goes off internal channel or the insane base damages of abilities on builds like Scrappers and Reapers. It’s just twice as high with little to no motivation.

While alot of those abilities (gunflame included) are intended to be “big attacks” there is a gross imbalance between them and old “big attacks” in both figures, counters and difficulty of application (or accuracy). I like that there are big attacks like gunflame, gravedigger or whatever else but it becomes ridiculous when their base damages are higher, cooldowns shorter, cost lower and application easier – so a single button pressed does more damage than a full Mesmer shatter rotation or more damage from a simple application mechanic than an Eles notoriously difficult-to-land dragon’s tooth. The latter is a good example of how big attacks can work. The new specs didn’t take that into consideration, at all it seems.

I agree completely.

Regarding the hard hitting attacks, it makes me think of Pry Bar on my Engineer. It’s one of my favorite skills because it feels good to land it because with Power Wrench and a fully offensive build this skill can hit very hard but is tricky to land. It’s rewarding because you can’t just spray and pray with it, you need to set it up and if you land it, it almost always pays off. With a bit of pre-stacked might I’ve landed 10k+ crits with this skill (on players. Upwards of 20k on champion NPCs) and I always grin like a maniac.

There are too many skills post-HoT that require little to no effort to do absolutely massive damage. And if the skills some how miss or are negated, most of them aren’t on a long cooldown or difficult to land a second time.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Yeah it’s chaotic in zerg fights,but doesn’t that count for every other class in those fights aswell ? ABout the sacrificing part trust me,we Have to sacrifice defense line in order to make this damage,which means..No condi cleanse or stabi util trait,no dogged march,no adren hp regen,no endure pain trait..That’s a a Huge loss to our sustain.Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.Also the skill is Only unblockable if people build it..Signet of might is a utility which grants 6 sec of unblockable when used..that means they have to give up sig of fury,balanced stance Or endure pain util.Otherwise it means they only use the sig of precision trait which grants unblockable when a foe reaches 50%.Trust me,we dont have it all…Make a warr and try to make it happen,youl see the issues.We have to sacrfice Alot to make this work.

The chaos is the same for all but the effect of such a chaos will be a lot more important when you have 1 shot button options.

Beside, no matter how much I sacrifice on an ele it is impossible to achieve 1 button, 1 kill. And it’s the same for most other profession. You guys can and it’s not that costly all things being equal.

It is very costly though to make this worthwile,it takes practice to learn how to counter it,go into a pvp arena ( i can even borrow you a free private one ) and try to fight one 1on1,learn his stuff and counter it.To be honest,i run gunflame myself not so often,it’s gimmicky and the no sustain part kills it for me when fighting 1vx..There are stronger builds around that people seem to miss.

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Caedmon.6798:

Offair.2563:

Do the rats display the right animation now like any other race, or does it still look like they stand still and BANG headshotted?

Like every class has such telegraphic skills able to read? Warr is easy to read Besides gunflame..It’s our only non high telegraphic skill.We used to had a killshot…Kneel down.. LOOK AT MEEE,now im gonna shoot…ready to evade ? Here i go ! The change to gunflame was awesome,learn how to deal with it.Ive been fighting kittenloads of gunflames myself,sometimes im lucky,sometimes im not,kitten happens.

Uh… I run full zerk ele and I don’t have that one shot button you seem to think we are entitled to have when we run that glassy.

Beside, for the third time, how easy is it to see that animation among the usual chaos of wvw? You guys saying dodge it are just ridiculous. Duh, of course I’d dodge it if I saw it and I had the endurance for at that moment.

Now, again, of course I learned to live with these lame builds all around and accept the fact I live a very dangerous life. However, let’s not pretend there is nothing wrong about that kind of damage.

Eh you still have sustain and blocks and invulns and regen on that ele which a warri doesnt have.You people have NO kittening clue,really.NONE.You also forget that a warri able to do such hits is BUILD for it,meaning he has dropped defense line completely and is a wet kittening noodle and open to every condi spamm aswell.But qq more please.

Uh, I do have all 9 professions at lvl 80 mind you so I do have a clue. For once, It would be nice if ppl stop think of a profession as all the same no matter the spec. It’s just ridiculous. You have an abysmal difference between the cheese spec you saw in pvp for so long and a backline speck in wvw. You are unkillable in celestial gear but drop dead instantly when look at in zerk.

Yes, ele has exceptional sustain but tell me how it’s useful when you drop dead instantly without any clue among the chaos of battle? You ain’t bouncing back from a one shot button. Try one shotting even the glassiest war? It’s impossible.

Beside, AFAIK, warrior has longer (possibly more frequent too) and better invul (you can attack when endure pain is on, while you can do jack kitten while on mist form). You also have at least just as many block available. You are absolutely certain to have the chance to hit any ‘oh, kitten’ button you have on your bar and some have it on auto.

I’m not saying war is OP. It’s not at the moment. However, I call major BS on anyone telling me a glass war is just as glassy as it’s ele counter part.

Well,first of all,i was not talking about zerg fights.I do not enjoy them anymore…Its 1500 range aoe bombing with 50 lines of warding and reflect in between ando no pushes going on unless 1 guy happens to get caught in the aoe spam.Its a snoozefest for me,i was merely talking about roaming only,where i can still see enough hard counters going on.

In small scale fights gunflame won’t be anywhere as problematic because the chaos of battle won’t be as intense and it will be easier to tell when use. For some builds it will still be very hard to overcome even one on one tho.

That being said, what is the logic and fun behind the insane damage you get from that skill? You do not sacrifice more than a lot of other build out there for your damage and yet you have a lot more punch than any in return and with better range. That it can be unblockable, has an aoe and has no need to be channeled only add salt to the injury.

War is not OP but that skill has clear issue. To be fair, other skills share the guilt. This one simply is the worst of its kind and, more importantly, on topic.

Yeah it’s chaotic in zerg fights,but doesn’t that count for every other class in those fights aswell ? ABout the sacrificing part trust me,we Have to sacrifice defense line in order to make this damage,which means..No condi cleanse or stabi util trait,no dogged march,no adren hp regen,no endure pain trait..That’s a a Huge loss to our sustain.Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.Also the skill is Only unblockable if people build it..Signet of might is a utility which grants 6 sec of unblockable when used..that means they have to give up sig of fury,balanced stance Or endure pain util.Otherwise it means they only use the sig of precision trait which grants unblockable when a foe reaches 50%.Trust me,we dont have it all…Make a warr and try to make it happen,youl see the issues.We have to sacrfice Alot to make this work.

The chaos is the same for all but the effect of such a chaos will be a lot more important when you have 1 shot button options.

Beside, no matter how much I sacrifice on an ele it is impossible to achieve 1 button, 1 kill. And it’s the same for most other profession. You guys can and it’s not that costly all things being equal.

It is very costly though to make this worthwile,it takes practice to learn how to counter it,go into a pvp arena ( i can even borrow you a free private one ) and try to fight one 1on1,learn his stuff and counter it.To be honest,i run gunflame myself not so often,it’s gimmicky and the no sustain part kills it for me when fighting 1vx..There are stronger builds around that people seem to miss.

Oh, I’m sure you sacrifice a lot to get it cranked up at that level. The point remains that:

1) You can, we can’t. And that no matter how WE sacrifice.
2) You need to do 12-13k to kill me on my usual wvw build. Many time I’ve been hit for substantially more than that which mean you could have played less offensively and still killed my kind comfortably.

I agree there are stronger and more cheesier builds out there. But that isn’t what is the problem. We only address one skill, not a build.

It’s possible to go zerker trinkets + soldier’s armor, run furious sharpening stone and Butternut Squash soup for the ferocity. Then use Daredevil runes. You’ll still break over 216% critical or 223% on berserk mode (and 33%ish crit chance), have 2800 toughness and 22K HP. If you want to swap to a melee weapon just use Knight’s or Cavalier’s Hammer/GS.

So Berserker + Strength , no might other than signet of might (+180 power)…
(Power * Weapon Strength_Avg * Skill Coefficient * Sigil of Force * Stick and Move * Always Angry * Bloody Roar * Critical Damage Multiplier) / Target Armor (No Protection)

2837 Power * 1096 * 2.75 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.07 * 1.10 * 2.23 / Target Armor

= 12.9K on 2000 Armor
= 10.3K on 2500 Armor

You don’t even need to run Berserker’s Strength , which is another 10-20% on top of this…
+20% = 15.4K on 2000 armor
+20% = 12K on 2500 armor

So Berserker+ Discipline , no might other than signet of might…
(Power * Weapon Strength_Avg * Skill Coefficient * Sigil of Force * Burst Mastery * Always Angry * Bloody Roar * Critical Damage Multiplier) / Target Armor (No Protection)

2837 Power * 1096 * 2.75 * 1.05 * 1.07 * 1.07 * 1.10 * 2.23 / Target Armor
= 12.6K on 2000 Armor
= 10K on 2500 Armor

Caedmon.6798:

apharma.3741:

Just ran into a warrior running this, nothing should do that much damage that quickly with 2 button presses. 0.75s isn’t long but with quickness on going berserk it’s just stupid.

you dont know how to use invulns,blocks,blinds,ports,stealth,leaps,reflects,interrupts ? Theres a kitten ton of counters to gunflame which all of you kittening noobs are missing

Cry for more nerfs please as its so justified as our healsig nerf back then a year or so back cus all of you kittening idiots cried about HEALSIG SO STRONG PLEASE NERF ! DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT !But now its been buffed back to regular numbers again since anet realized their mistake cus of ppl crying for a nerf that Wasnt justified.

Learn to kittening counter it because ive seen enough people smart enough how to.
Most gunflamers i encounter still suck on it with the few exceptions there.

if a warri goes into berserk when on rifle ( Which is kittening apparant enough ) You know he’s gonna gun you in a sec,so you wait with your invulns/ports or w/e you have untill he reaches that point..its 15 sec of you taking distance popping invulns,ports,blocks,reflects untill he turns normal again..Honestly its not as hard as you people make it look like.

You missed the point. With quickness you can be popping shots at people from the sides of a Zerg then insta kill anyone in the focus group nearly with about a 0.35s warning. It shouldn’t do that much damage, that quick at range.

Again, it’s the speed at which it happens. You simply don’t have the time, especially with quickness on going berserk to react.

Stick the cast at 1-1.5s, keep the ability to move around and it’ll be fine, still one shot people but it will give people time to react.

Also chill out. I didn’t say anything about heal sig, so stop being always angry and use the discipline line.

Straegen.2938:

Cerby.1069:

Your problems really seems to be that you don’t know how to counter it. I would defer you to the many posts above that shed light on this. If you seek more info, just go to your class subsection and ask for help there.

There is no counter to something that can effectively one shot from a very long range. The counter is to run a completely different class, get used to occasionally dying to it or wait out an inevitable nerf which could take months. I have already adjusted to the heavy bunker Tempest and trapper Dragon Hunter meta (as in avoid it) as well as pre-CoR double hits. I will adjust to this as well… just sucks that clearly ANet kittened this one.

Why would it get a nerf? It just got a buff a few weeks ago.

Caedmon.6798:

Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.

Oh, is that really that hard for warrior? I’m so sorry to hear that from my biased ele point of view. I know that ele is soo much OP with 13k hp and 1.9k thougness(full zerker staff ele) and hardly any skill that would give 8+k dmg on one hit, because most of our skills are aoe from which you can just walk away. And if we really want to do dmg, we HAVE to stand like idiots in place for 3s(and again it’s aoe so..), so i’m really sorry that your warrior have so little sustain it’s almost unbearable, you should definitely tell that to devs so they can do something about it.
/sarcasm off

Ok, ele have invul, but we can do kitten in it, we have magnetic aura which is 4s long and have 30s cd(which in normal wvw fight is usefull only if warior stands right next to you so you can see him, or you have to be luckiest person in that fight), lightning flash is not really that usefull against GunFlame since you usually don’t know from where they will shot and please tell me what good is regen if you get dmg equal to 1,5 times of you MAX health.

The complaints here seem to revolve around overpowered and spammable.
various screens hots show gunflame is not the highest damage (although it is very high) so spammable? I don’t see how burst skills are comparable to ordinary skills, particularly COR.
Warriors are taking rifle, berserk and strength will all the adrenaline gains, berserk gains& recharges for this build, which is all basically all traits + zerk gear to get these figures.
By nerfing Gunflame you are saying warriors can’t attain the same level of damage as other professions? I use a tanky soldier build and get around 8K which does not seem unreasonable although I wouldn’t argue with a 10-15% reduction -as long as it was done by looking at all the skills that can hit over 15K.
The problem in Wvw I believe is how it is used. As a frontliner I’m at the front and the minute I push berserk/lightbulb I’m subject to ALOT of range+freeze and the favorite ‘pull’ to the middle of their zerg where I’m unceremoniously beaten to death with hate. Seems fair, eternal champion duration could lose 15% if people want more of this. But Wvw adjusts to new skills after the initial outrage… If people are sneaking about in the middle of the zerg I think the range should get shortened, but it seems somewhat invasive of gameplay and needs to be looked at with all ranged skills that can hit over 15K. As well as cloaked skills that hit for this damage either single or chains. Warrior is very limited on pvp so I don’t think the cooldown should adj this is WVW specific.

This skill sheds light on the fundamental issue that Anet has with all WvW and PvP. Complete imbalance.

All this was predicted way before they even released HoT. When they gave us previews of the spec, it was pretty obvious. This game has become so unbalanced. There is no way one skill, like killshot, gunflame, CoR, or whatever should one shot anyone at full health. That, to me, is the very definition of inbalance. My glass thief sits at around 14K. I have 2 dps guards. They sit at around 15K and 16K. My dps ele is at around 16K. This skill, and others can intantly kill them. How is that fair? How is that balance?

Many have said it’s a l2p issue. It isn’t. Sure you can dodge, but then what? Gunflame and CoR are so op, not only because they hit so hard, but becuase they’re on 4 second CDs. When a skill hits that hard, and so quickly, it’s usually whoever attacks first, wins. How is that goood gameplay? Where’s the back and forth? Without buffs to the base health and toughness, there’s no chance to recover or utilize your classes skills.

And just to further demonstrate this mentality, someone thought it was a good idea to put a one shot skill in the game that can kill 240 people.

Vitality and toughness needs to be pumped up across the board.

Nerf thieves before nerfing Gunflame.

apharma.3741:

Caedmon.6798:

apharma.3741:

Just ran into a warrior running this, nothing should do that much damage that quickly with 2 button presses. 0.75s isn’t long but with quickness on going berserk it’s just stupid.

you dont know how to use invulns,blocks,blinds,ports,stealth,leaps,reflects,interrupts ? Theres a kitten ton of counters to gunflame which all of you kittening noobs are missing

Cry for more nerfs please as its so justified as our healsig nerf back then a year or so back cus all of you kittening idiots cried about HEALSIG SO STRONG PLEASE NERF ! DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT !But now its been buffed back to regular numbers again since anet realized their mistake cus of ppl crying for a nerf that Wasnt justified.

Learn to kittening counter it because ive seen enough people smart enough how to.
Most gunflamers i encounter still suck on it with the few exceptions there.

if a warri goes into berserk when on rifle ( Which is kittening apparant enough ) You know he’s gonna gun you in a sec,so you wait with your invulns/ports or w/e you have untill he reaches that point..its 15 sec of you taking distance popping invulns,ports,blocks,reflects untill he turns normal again..Honestly its not as hard as you people make it look like.

You missed the point. With quickness you can be popping shots at people from the sides of a Zerg then insta kill anyone in the focus group nearly with about a 0.35s warning. It shouldn’t do that much damage, that quick at range.

Again, it’s the speed at which it happens. You simply don’t have the time, especially with quickness on going berserk to react.

Stick the cast at 1-1.5s, keep the ability to move around and it’ll be fine, still one shot people but it will give people time to react.

Also chill out. I didn’t say anything about heal sig, so stop being always angry and use the discipline line.

Please note where i mentioned i was not talking about zerg fights.This game should not be balanced around zerg fights either theres still a thing called pvp you know.Also typing in caps does not mean i’m angry,i’m pointing out something stupid people used to complain about.As this is atm,im not about to repeat myself over and over,ive said about this build what there is to say,learn to counter.

DeadBishop.6058:

Caedmon.6798:

Also needing to go full zerk ( which means 19k hp and around 2.3 – 2.5k toughness ) with our only sustain being healsig + endure pain trait basically means,we dont have any sustain at all.

Oh, is that really that hard for warrior? I’m so sorry to hear that from my biased ele point of view. I know that ele is soo much OP with 13k hp and 1.9k thougness(full zerker staff ele) and hardly any skill that would give 8+k dmg on one hit, because most of our skills are aoe from which you can just walk away. And if we really want to do dmg, we HAVE to stand like idiots in place for 3s(and again it’s aoe so..), so i’m really sorry that your warrior have so little sustain it’s almost unbearable, you should definitely tell that to devs so they can do something about it.
/sarcasm off

Ok, ele have invul, but we can do kitten in it, we have magnetic aura which is 4s long and have 30s cd(which in normal wvw fight is usefull only if warior stands right next to you so you can see him, or you have to be luckiest person in that fight), lightning flash is not really that usefull against GunFlame since you usually don’t know from where they will shot and please tell me what good is regen if you get dmg equal to 1,5 times of you MAX health.

Dont compare an ele to a warri,it just does not make sense at all.

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I could try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Balance is all out of wack and tbh it is not much fun anymore. It used to take some sort of skills to kill players but now it takes 1 to 2 buttons instead and you don’t even need any skills whatsoever to pull it off..

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I could try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I could try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

https://youtu.be/38uc362Ufxo

From gw2 beta weekend.. Look how broken it was and still is to this day LOL

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I could try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

You’re missing how it is to play a warri at all atm,which is a pain in zergfights aswell,but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t play warri at all.Try it,and come back at me.

And as ive said before,I do not run gunflame often,it’s too gimmicky and we have to sacrifice ALOT to make it work with having null sustain left.Also there is a reason why this isn’t being used in ESL teams,but you dont care about that..all you care about is being hit by it in a kittening 50v50 fight…for kittensake.

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I could try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

You’re missing how it is to play a warri at all atm,which is a pain in zergfights aswell,but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t play warri at all.Try it,and come back at me.

And as ive said before,I do not run gunflame often,it’s too gimmicky and we have to sacrifice ALOT to make it work with having null sustain left.

I have 10 level 80’s nice try though.. Glad you could tell what I play from what I post..

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I ould try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

You’re missing how it is to play a warri at all atm,which is a pain in zergfights aswell,but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t play warri at all.Try it,and come back at me.

And as ive said before,I do not run gunflame often,it’s too gimmicky and we have to sacrifice ALOT to make it work with having null sustain left.

I have 10 level 80’s nice try though.. Glad you could tell what I play from what I post..

Anything else to add or that’s it ? if you do play warri should know how it is,but i still think you have no kittening clue whatsoever.Also since you people are talking about Zerg fights only….you forget that the warris are getting atleast 15 – 25 might stacks..You people should take this into a small scale perspective or pvp perspective and Then complain,Theres a reason this is not being used in esl.

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I ould try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

You’re missing how it is to play a warri at all atm,which is a pain in zergfights aswell,but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t play warri at all.Try it,and come back at me.

And as ive said before,I do not run gunflame often,it’s too gimmicky and we have to sacrifice ALOT to make it work with having null sustain left.

I have 10 level 80’s nice try though.. Glad you could tell what I play from what I post..

Anything else to add or that’s it ? if you do play warri should know how it is,but i still think you have no kittening clue whatsoever.

we can keep going back and forth if you want but that will only get the thread locked.

you have no clue if you think any skill should be able to pretty much instant down players.. it leads to lazy game play, unskilled game play and the fights are not even fun.

All I want is the damage toned down some so I can at least hit my OHHH SHHHHHIIIIII button.. Is that really too much to ask for???

edit: since you keep editing yours after I reply.. WTF does PVP have to do with WvW? That’s the problem.. Its not an issue in pvp so its ok in wvw??? Yea you have no clue if you are going to compare a 5vs5 game mode vs a world vs world game mode.. You are playing the wrong game mode bro.

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

Caedmon.6798:

briggah.7910:

I’ll learn to counter it when it stops instant downing me in large fights.. If I had 1% health left I’d be happy because then I ould try to counter. Getting instant downed is the friggin problem. Stop saying learn to play or learn to counter. If this is a learn to play issue so is ever single complaint EVER

Should blame your zerg for that,reflect lines are normally being popped forcing gunflamers and heavy range to go to the sides..Also note we have 1200 range not 1500.Also there is no way you’re getting insta downed by it,if you do..that’s all on you.

no the blame goes to the balance team. any skill that goes from full health to instant downed is BROKEN and not healthy game play. You play the build so of course you don’t see it as a problem.

You’re missing how it is to play a warri at all atm,which is a pain in zergfights aswell,but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t play warri at all.Try it,and come back at me.

And as ive said before,I do not run gunflame often,it’s too gimmicky and we have to sacrifice ALOT to make it work with having null sustain left.

I have 10 level 80’s nice try though.. Glad you could tell what I play from what I post..

Anything else to add or that’s it ? if you do play warri should know how it is,but i still think you have no kittening clue whatsoever.

we can keep going back and forth if you want but that will only get the thread locked.

you have no clue if you think any skill should be able to pretty much instant down players.. it leads to lazy game play, unskilled game play and the fights are not even fun.

All I want is the damage toned down some so I can at least hit my OHHH SHHHHHIIIIII button.. Is that really too much to ask for???

edit: since you keep editing yours after I reply.. WTF does PVP have to do with WvW? That’s the problem.. Its not an issue in pvp so its ok in wvw??? Yea you have no clue if you are going to compare a 5vs5 game mode vs a world vs world game mode.. You are playing the wrong game mode bro.

It does not insta down players,simple as that.If you get insta down that’s all on you and playing it wrong.Stop playing so much 50v50 and learn how to actually counter it you,noob.Honestly,you miss how much counter there is to this build while only kittening about a warri getting a lucky kittening shot in a 50v50 while having 15 – 25 might stacks from guards around him,please man.

edit:
edit:
edit:

lol calling me names like a little 10 year old. I’ll be a noob. At least I run builds where I have to work for my kills instead of noobish push a few buttons and win builds..

also stop using bad words.. makes it hard to read wtf you are saying when you kitten this and kitten that.

Miko.4158:

The complaints here seem to revolve around overpowered and spammable.
various screens hots show gunflame is not the highest damage (although it is very high) so spammable? I don’t see how burst skills are comparable to ordinary skills, particularly COR.
Warriors are taking rifle, berserk and strength will all the adrenaline gains, berserk gains& recharges for this build, which is all basically all traits + zerk gear to get these figures.
By nerfing Gunflame you are saying warriors can’t attain the same level of damage as other professions? I use a tanky soldier build and get around 8K which does not seem unreasonable although I wouldn’t argue with a 10-15% reduction -as long as it was done by looking at all the skills that can hit over 15K.
The problem in Wvw I believe is how it is used. As a frontliner I’m at the front and the minute I push berserk/lightbulb I’m subject to ALOT of range+freeze and the favorite ‘pull’ to the middle of their zerg where I’m unceremoniously beaten to death with hate. Seems fair, eternal champion duration could lose 15% if people want more of this. But Wvw adjusts to new skills after the initial outrage… If people are sneaking about in the middle of the zerg I think the range should get shortened, but it seems somewhat invasive of gameplay and needs to be looked at with all ranged skills that can hit over 15K. As well as cloaked skills that hit for this damage either single or chains. Warrior is very limited on pvp so I don’t think the cooldown should adj this is WVW specific.

if you’re running berserk and your build is around rifle you are Not in the front lines
if you cant get kills with your rifle 3 skill wich hits almost as insanely then really it is yoou who needs to l2p

kill shot as it was always already considered too strong
gunflame goes beyond

heres the summary
Cons
20% less damage than T3 Kill shot

Pros
1500 range
2 seconds cooldown
less than half a second cast time
can be cast while moving
Burns
Dazes
Pierces
+100% projectile speed
180 radius

couple that with signet of might active and you ve got yourself at least 2 instant unblockable beams of death

its too much for one skill

Let me check if I’m frontline… ooh yes I am. good stuff was worried there for a bit.
There are balance updates . BALANCE. so no good whinging I got hit with xyz and listing out the attributes. It needs perspective. this thread is trolling.

Miko.4158:

Let me check if I’m frontline… ooh yes I am. good stuff was worried there for a bit.
There are balance updates . BALANCE. so no good whinging I got hit with xyz and listing out the attributes. It needs perspective. this thread is trolling.

But that’s the point… it is not balanced.

warrior is still in a bad state. If gunflame is getting nerfd look in to classes like dh, druid, scrapper and rev aswell. Condi also overall. Speci to be on par with old builds to get a bigger spec option. Main war since launch, still preform better on rev (3weeks playtime) same gear. But ye still no fan of gunflame, think the old builds are way more fun to play but weak as hell. But since anet have decided to do speci stronger, gunflame needs to hit for a stupid amount.