Guild Wars 2

So I got to thinking, what could be a minimum effort anet could do to satisfy the needs of the gvg community.

Then I realized. There is one instanced map with enough room for GvGers to duke it out. And that’s the keg brawl arena. This arena is really an instanced map of the norn capitol, and you can easily jump the fence to access it. It would still be a lot of work for anet to implement it – would need UI interfaces to be able to create it and invite people into it, the ability for it to follow wvw rules instead of spvp etc but as far as minimal effort that is the best I can come up with.

The other possibility is a private invite only instance of OS.

Draygo.9473:

-snip-

You are vastly overestimating the number of participants in GvG, just like he is vastly underestimating it.

If you want to go with real numbers: http://www.gw2wvw.net/gvg
You are looking at around 2,297 people give or take 20% for inactives and subs.

You realise that that page doesn’t have any relevance at all, right?

Half the guilds on that list disbanded a year or more ago. And most of the ones in existence today aren’t on it either.

I stand by my estimate.

Draygo.9473:

So I got to thinking, what could be a minimum effort anet could do to satisfy the needs of the gvg community.

Then I realized. There is one instanced map with enough room for GvGers to duke it out. And that’s the keg brawl arena. This arena is really an instanced map of the norn capitol, and you can easily jump the fence to access it. It would still be a lot of work for anet to implement it – would need UI interfaces to be able to create it and invite people into it, the ability for it to follow wvw rules instead of spvp etc but as far as minimal effort that is the best I can come up with.

The other possibility is a private invite only instance of OS.

Keg Brawl instance would be perfect

Ragnar.4257:

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

If you honestly think ALL 51 servers have an average of 5 guilds…then I have some oceanfront property to sell.

Ogre.3124:

With the growing in population of late with Gw2, more and more trolling of GvGs are taking place. All it takes is for one dude to ruin a GvG match whether its in the obsidium sanctum or by the windmill. Last year and before that I’d say 99% of players respected gvgs and stayed on the side lines. New players are not familiar with this and there seems to be here-and-there players with no guild tags shooting arrows into the arena.(…)

The way I see it GvG is trolling WvW.

I fancy playing some WvW can I? Sure, just have to wait for my turn in a 50 people queue to get in.
I got in, lets do something, no wait I can’t, because GvGs can’t be bother to do anything but fighting for 2 minutes and waiting the next 5 to reset.
What is that? Are you telling me I’ve spent the last 2 hours running dollies to upgrade a tower and mean while the map got full of people for GvG and no matter how much I ask for help no one is coming and they even get to “lel” on map chat at my desperation when I see my hard work going to hell?

I think theres one thing people don’t quite get it, WvW is NOT GvG, you don’t get to call me names (and I do get called plenty) if when I see you standing about to GvG I come along join in on the fight, THATS WvW as is intended, you don’t get to twist a whole game mode to silk your mood and tell people that play the game as intended are wrong.

It could also be that ANET saw how toxic the gvg community was to wvw and don’t want to promote a wannabe esport where guilds dodge each other all the time and whine/trash talk each other in whispers daily (hope it’s better on NA)

Move the Obsidian Sanctum map from WvW match-up to EotM Match-up. (red/blue/green = more servers to play against. Spawning new maps when full. Doesn’t take up queue’s for other maps).

Guilds can spawn world events like teq. Maybe some sort or token system to spawn an instance of Os or even wvw map…….

Holm.7058:

It could also be that ANET saw how toxic the gvg community was to wvw and don’t want to promote a wannabe esport where guilds dodge each other all the time and whine/trash talk each other in whispers daily (hope it’s better on NA)

I’m sorry sir, but have you done sPvP lately? That is WAY more toxic than anything in this game. Sure, GvG guilds tend to talk trash to others, and even most of the time consider themselves ABOVE the normal player in the game, but the amount I see in sPvP is way higher than in the GvG communities. The GvG guilds typically have an unspoken respect with each other.

Flyphish.6398:

Ragnar.4257:

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

If you honestly think ALL 51 servers have an average of 5 guilds…then I have some oceanfront property to sell.

I can name 15 guilds RIGHT now that all have over 30+ people who actively run as “fight”/GvG guilds.

tluv.5821:

Flyphish.6398:

Ragnar.4257:

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

If you honestly think ALL 51 servers have an average of 5 guilds…then I have some oceanfront property to sell.

I can name 15 guilds RIGHT now that all have over 30+ people who actively run as “fight”/GvG guilds.

15 × 30 = 450, pretty close to my estimate…

In any case it’s less than 1000, which is just 4% of one region of PvP.

Edit: And that’s just the people that play ranked queue…so characterizing GvG as niche is generous.

Since we get new borderland map just give this gvg scrubs old borderland map, remove all camps, towers, keeps, ruins. They are not needed.

Just opening for 20vs20 in custom arenas would also go a long way.

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

You must be new to make a statement like that.

Feel free to google. Look at the numbers for higher profile GvGs back in the day, they far exceeded anything coming out of the PvP scene. Impromptu GvG always competed with any ‘official’ PvP. Why do you think a senior Anet Dev trolled a GvG? Because GvG was out playing his game mode. On that note, take a trip down memory lane and look up Sacrx’ NDA leak for why ‘devs posts support that’.

As others have said, GvG is languishing to PvP now because its an unsupported game mode.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Sure, just have to wait for my turn in a 50 people queue to get in.

Guilds typically wouldn’t GvG on a full map. They would do it at a quieter time, usually towards the end of the week. GvG impact on queues/ppt were blown out of proportion by ANet and people bought into it.

Sacrx’ NDA leaked highlighted ANET’s stance and how bloodlust was introduced to unbalance WvW even more and push people towards PvP for more balanced fighting.

For the longest time anything WvW had to go through the PvP team first. PvP e-sports has always been ANET’s focus over WvW, let alone GvG.

Many of the GvG successes were in spite of ANET and the ignorance of some players.

joneirikb.7506:

Just opening for 20vs20 in custom arenas would also go a long way.

Wouldn’t work because even at 10vs10 arenas lag.

Judging by the increase in numbers that are now in pvp, I’d say that having the dailies include pvp has encouraged huge numbers in to pvp.

The fact that wvw is so stale has also encourage people into pvp, as well as server inbalances, lower tiers being totally dead, etc.

Pvp gets paid tournaments, advertising, etc etc , whereas gvg has been spurned completely by the devs (Obsid is a joke area, thrown as a bone so they could say ‘hey look, we made an area’, which is complete useless as a proper gvg arena).

GvG used to be more popular, but the complete lack of support for the game mode has slowly killed it off. If they had spent the same amount of time and resources on gvg as they have done to spvp then gvg would be hugely popular- guild vs guild fights have always been popular (see gw1) in many other games . I used to run a big guild that did 80vs 80 battles and people used to look forward to the fights all week.

Sadly Anet have shown no interest in gvg and by now it’s probably too late, they have cast their lot in with spvp and to change direction now would be both expensive and involve too much loss of face for them to even consier it.

It’s a shame, as decent gvg would have retained so many of the players that have now left the game (including huge numbers of potential pvp players).

x Charlie.4820:

Malediktus.3740:

GvG is for a very small minority. Waste of development resources.

This.

Not to mention they put in obsidian sanctum area for them… Theres also plenty of other open places for GvG. Nothing will ever be good enough for them though.

Every single acceptable area of map is also completely open to interference by everyone and anyone. Nothing is ever good enough, because there isn’t a system good enough.

It is only a minority because it gets smothered by the thousands of crying carebears that are completely horrid at actually PvP combat and the toxic PvP scene that too ignorant and clueless about everything outside their little conquest bubble. The resources it would take are minimal, hell they don’t even need to make a new map for it. Just use the failed concept of a map that was Capricorn. Make an open space in the middle and your are done. Even pushing custom maps to 20 cap will go a long way. What development are we even getting already? PvE? LS 2 started off great and then went horrid after the first patch, and got progressively worse. Oh, don’t forget all that gem store content.

Make a viable system, and the players will come.

Flyphish.6398:

15 × 30 = 450, pretty close to my estimate…

In any case it’s less than 1000, which is just 4% of one region of PvP.

Edit: And that’s just the people that play ranked queue…so characterizing GvG as niche is generous.

1) PvP is game wide, its not locked for servers
2) how many guilds that do gvg from lower tiers you know? Even T7 server in EU have at least 4 guilds that do gvg. And everyone calls bronze dead.
3)we might not have 25 people to fight with but 15vs15 is pretty usual down here

i like to play gvg’s too , but i just think anet is not intrested in making it happen , becuase there is Always the same group of guilds on top and that isn’t going to change , no discredit or offence ment for the guilds as they worked hard to get to that position

Flyphish.6398:

tluv.5821:

Flyphish.6398:

Ragnar.4257:

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

If you honestly think ALL 51 servers have an average of 5 guilds…then I have some oceanfront property to sell.

I can name 15 guilds RIGHT now that all have over 30+ people who actively run as “fight”/GvG guilds.

15 × 30 = 450, pretty close to my estimate…

In any case it’s less than 1000, which is just 4% of one region of PvP.

Edit: And that’s just the people that play ranked queue…so characterizing GvG as niche is generous.

You think there are only 15 GvG guilds?

I can think of 15 on Desolation alone, let alone the other 50 servers.

You are woefully underestimating.

Why not make an open map, training facility themed, that guilds of the same matchup can participate by registering, but every guild would be an enemy, not only server vs server. Would be fun lol individuals with guilds of less than 10 or 15 registrants, wont be able to take place in there (as an 8v8 can be carried out in custom sPvP arenas).

Or you can implement an event manager, that would allow a system much like “LFG” for posting guild looking for guild to GvG with 15 people, and the battle would take place every 5 or 10 minutes in instanced arenas between the two guilds that agreed on that manager.
It would be nice to implement that to enough advanced Guild Halls so they can host their individual arena of preference and maybe landscape, providing much diversity in battle and have a “home” edge feel.

But the truth is that it seems like a new game mode, so I dont know how willing is Anet to carry any of these through.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Sure, just have to wait for my turn in a 50 people queue to get in.

Guilds typically wouldn’t GvG on a full map. They would do it at a quieter time, usually towards the end of the week. GvG impact on queues/ppt were blown out of proportion by ANet and people bought into it.

Sacrx’ NDA leaked highlighted ANET’s stance and how bloodlust was introduced to unbalance WvW even more and push people towards PvP for more balanced fighting.

For the longest time anything WvW had to go through the PvP team first. PvP e-sports has always been ANET’s focus over WvW, let alone GvG.

Many of the GvG successes were in spite of ANET and the ignorance of some players.

I’ve seen it first hand, 10, 20… 50+ queue on my home server BL, by the time I get in there’s about 10 tags up for GvG and we are barely holding any objectives.
I haven’t bought onto anything, like I said, I’ve seen it first hand.

As for ruins and bloodlust, they came along when a significant number of players kept demanding something for a small group to do that would give a real map wide impact.
The only problem with ruins is lack of loot and wxp, thats why they go mostly ignored (except when they’re up for a daily) despite of being exactly what so many people asked for so long, small fights with big map wide impact.

I just find it funny how GvGs could go to EotM, or OS (with an arena built for them) but no, because reasons.
So BL it is, and everyone should just stop playing WvW because GvGs want to play their own made up game an feel entitled to call names to anyone that doesn’t go but their own rules.
Its like me saying “No one attacks Ulgoth, I wanna see if I can down him with retaliation alone” and when everyone just ignores that and jumps in, I call the entire map a bunch of trolls for not playing by my made up rules and funny game.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I’ve seen it first hand, 10, 20… 50+ queue on my home server BL, by the time I get in there’s about 10 tags up for GvG and we are barely holding any objectives.
I haven’t bought onto anything, like I said, I’ve seen it first hand.

As for ruins and bloodlust, they came along when a significant number of players kept demanding something for a small group to do that would give a real map wide impact.
The only problem with ruins is lack of loot and wxp, thats why they go mostly ignored (except when they’re up for a daily) despite of being exactly what so many people asked for so long, small fights with big map wide impact.

I just find it funny how GvGs could go to EotM, or OS (with an arena built for them) but no, because reasons.
So BL it is, and everyone should just stop playing WvW because GvGs want to play their own made up game an feel entitled to call names to anyone that doesn’t go but their own rules.
Its like me saying “No one attacks Ulgoth, I wanna see if I can down him with retaliation alone” and when everyone just ignores that and jumps in, I call the entire map a bunch of trolls for not playing by my made up rules and funny game.

15 or 20 players GvG out of 100 on a borderland. If the other players stop doing ppt just to watch a GvG which stops ppt on a map; then more people simply enjoy GvG’s than ppt. In NA servers there literally is no one complaining about ppt while GvGs are going on. Perhaps its an EU thing and there are GvG rotations on borderlands instead of OS; however, in NA servers people only rotate GvGs in obsidium.

Any case, instanced gvg rooms would prevent this issue, though I’m sure it’s minor. And with EoTM, the gvg locations are questionable and run a high chance of having uplevels run into the battle whether on purpose or on accident. Keep in mind that gvg groups typically raid before and after their gvg rounds and help the server by fighting blobs around the borderland.

I’ll admit I didn’t read the whole thing because the replies from people that this would not affect in any way shape or form hurts my brain, they argue for the sake of arguing.

So here is my question and sorry if it was asked or stated somewhere within the pointless arguments of why this game mode should be ignored.

Is it not the intention for guild halls to accommodate GvG ?

I think the halls are the home base … but I don’t know if they will grow to accomodate GvGs. It’s a potential to, but I think we need to see how they implement GH. If they are all the same vanilla halls with our own personal trade post bank merch etc … then meh… I hope they do extend it though to house battles.

I was kinda thinking they would be more along the lines of Gw1 Guild Halls which were used for GvG.

Yeah that is what my hopes would be too, but I’m not going to get excited only to be let down. They haven’t spoken much about implementing GvG’s so its hard for me to believe this is the first step in that direction.

zinkz.7045:

LoL more difficult, let’s take ‘positioning’ as you mention that, positioning is a joke in “GvG”, melee don’t have to make any real decisions on positioning at all, the driver does it for them, it is brainless, which is why you have the QQ over driver sniping, you kill the brain and well…

You’re literally just wrong. It’s clear you’re talking about something you have no experience with. Good melee make plays, harass casters, peel for their own casters, adjust their position to avoid damage, and more all on a personal level. In our current NA meta where you can get blown up faster than you can blink, you can’t wait for your driver to tell you what to do. Get a clue.

I doubt you’ll ever see official anet support for any kind of a gvg game mode in gw2. They’ve consistently been very clear that gvg just isn’t something they have any intention of implementing as an offical game mode. So if they do I’m going to be shocked.

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

No one really has those numbers and I doubt Anet systems can sort the purpose for people hitting each other in WvWvW. GvG had a large and passionate following, out of which came builds, tactics, videos and even vanity configurations that we see floating around now. It spanned tiers, and while there are some celebrity guilds that anyone can name, there were those that were obscure and doing their thing. People who couldn’t show up in game to watch would watch streams or Youtube videos because players generated hype about a match (I remember GvG streams that got waaay more viewers than promoted sPvP fights). In this same spirit people set up 10v10s and even 5v5s in WvWvW because to them it was more attractive than sPvP.

This is something for players by players. sPvP these days with its commentators wearing suits and cash prizes is the result of a company pushing it hard enough as a sport to get sponsorship to catch the MOBA train, something that Anet has been trying to do for 2 years now.

so much kitten on the topic, lots of it useless.

spvp and gvg are a different thing, and I can surely understand why anet aims on the spvp variant, its easier for teams, its fast and it requires a more individual player skill when it comes to dodges and such, gvg has a total different requirement of skills, and ofcourse also some similar skill sets(there’s a reason why quite some strong spvp players in EU also play in GvG’s).Spvp just has more factors that are more neccesary for esports than gvg. and so obvious that a company goes for the side where they think they can get the game the most attraction and eventually money (because thats what a company wants, sure there are more things but money matters in the end).

but spvp and gvg are not the same, we shouldnt compare them, there are wvw devs(like 4?:D) and pve devs that aim to create the side for other players than pvp, and gvg would like to see some developements for their gameplay too, its not all about spvp vs gvg.

to Dean Calaway.9718
gvg’s are currently toxic to the wvw gamemode, because they do not engage in ppt. but do they have any choice? they want to fight enemies, zergs and whate vercomes their path. and not stack in OS with all the other guilds in the matchup to maybe do a few rounds in their 3 hour primetime. yes they’re toxic to the gamemode, but eventually players decide what to do in game, instead of whining to the gvg guilds you should actually support them so they get their own thing, and you can go back to your bl without the stacked Queue. the tensions have gotten to high with the namecalling and kittened trolling from all sides though.

but altough I would like to see some more support to the gvg community, gvg guilds shouldnt whine. we got obsedium sanctum and its being shared, we do our scrims in open field, and on alot of servers It can be done without rly much interferance of others. we have had multiple sites for gvg scores and places to fight, it wasnt all perfect but who cares? we can do what we want and that is to fight another guild in 20v20. or 15v15 or whatever we want.

Anet doesnt want to support it, deal with it.

the gw2 community is toxic and elitist.pvp, wvw and gvg all rage against eachother and inside their own community aswell, and the company pretty much makes big cash tournaments which are filled with 30 of the same players all the time. the only place i havnt seen much rage was in pve, but then again thats the only field of play i dont rly spend my gametime in.

Im playing thief in a GvG guild,[HoW]. I dont care for most changes (altough this stab is really hurting), we do our gvg’s with little to no interferance. And I dont care that we dont get money for it or much support(would be nice ofc though), its for fun, and in my guild we got fun and have fun fighting, once the first or the last ends im done and move on. there will always be a new game and with the perhaps small but quite dedicated community there will always stay a way to play that we enjoy, supported by the dev or community, either way aslong as its fun.

Why we heff to be mad, its only game.

didnt spell/grammar check my post, has some mistakes, dont judge me.

Ogre.3124:

MrKrataus.6420:

Ogre.3124:

Flyphish.6398:

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

Imagine a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more complex regarding positioning and teamwork.

Hahaha

Sorry

… more people, more potential for teamwork. More damage / skills from the other team, takes better positioning.

Video w/ Caed an above average tpvp player doing gvg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx151_7QU0A

He dies the first minute. This is from him being assumingly inexperienced, but that’s the whole point. Not to say tpvp doesn’t take skill; even more-so in its own aspects. GvGs take more skill regarding a more straight forward manner of non-environmental positioning and communication due to there being a larger team.

It take less individual communication for a gvg player, ofc there’s gonna be a lot of speaking, cuz 20players, I’ve played both pvp tourny and both gvg at a top 1-2 team each.

Communication and positioning are both harder speaking of a match with 2top pvp team tryharding then a gvg with 2top tryharding also.

For a top gvg player it will take ages to compete on pvp tourny, on the otherside 1days was enought for me to play at a competitive gvg, there’s exceptions with gvg players but theses players like sindrener Let’s say came from pvp first, Sorry for da english yo

NeroGuilt.4720:

Can we just start a petition to change the game’s name? This clearly isn’t “GUILD” wars. I’ve always thought it was pretty funny they even bothered keeping the Guild Wars name with the way they act about GvG. It’s a disgrace to those of us from the original.

This always makes me laugh. Guild Wars does not refer to player guilds. Try doing a little research. If you desire to make a complaint, the least you could do it make is applicable and reasonable. And you mentioned the term discrace, that seems applicable alright, but not toward the games title.

I dont know why you are even comparing pvp to gvg, first of all pvp can be trained much more easier, since organizing a pvp match doesnt require the partecipation of 20 people at the same time. Second time, its just another game: i am not saying i dont like pvp, i have played it a lot and could reach a decent level and I can say PvP probably requires more personal skill (not that much in real, you can die much more easy in GvG, and in PvP rotation is even more important than personal skill), but I still prefered to focus on the gvg scene since it is much more fun to me to play with more people and really feels me part of the group.
Maybe this second part is the reason of the hate of the PVP lovers, since they cant find a gvg group where they can fit.

You guys are comparing casual pvp hotjoin with gvg competitive scène, think about the différence of training behind a random zerg wvw player to reach a top gvg team and casual pvp to top one, casual pvp to competitive one take 50x more time, just that.

Oh yea i forgot: something i noticed too, in pvp i watch more often my skills CD, and not caring that much about the positioning of the opponent, in GvG is more i am counting the CD of the skills in my mind since it is more importante watching the positions of the enemies and the opponent train movements. GvG seems to me more faster and, somehow more modern. Still, i dont really care what people prefer, but dont bore me with the kitten talking of the pvp skill is higher or something like that, cuz getting a guild group running properly requires much more effort and time than you think.

Ye you’re doing casual pvp, not enought training to take less attention on cd

kitten stop comparing spvp and gvg, it aint the same thing, its like like comparing pvp and pve. you just shouldn’t do it.

rainisword.7860:

No GvG is not unbalanced, it works actually quite well for a game designed around 5v5. Right now in the meta, every class but engi is utilized

That doesn’t make it balanced, having more guards for example than all the rangers, engies, thieves, and mesmers put together out of 20 players is so far from balanced it is laughable.

And incidentally that some guilds use a ranger lately does not alter the reality that for most of this game it was non-existent in GvG.

That stuff is basic wtf

The GvG scene is pathetic. GvG guilds think that GvG is 20v20 smashing #1 and dropping AoE at their feet with one small gank party off pin. Its not a GvG at all. Its a team deathmatch with friends. There really is no difference between GvG gameplay and courtyard in spvp.

Until there is another objective other than to just kill the other opponent there will be no such thing as GvG in GW2. Stronghold is probably the only thing close to GvG.

Flyphish.6398:

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

That’s some fabulous reasoning out there.

There are more players doing GvGs than you people really understand. Hell there is a 412 member guild on Ebay that GvG’s regularly. So that right there just blows out any argument of numbers.

Back in 2013 when GvGs was at its prime the number of players was insane. You could literally have in every tier 2-5 fights for your guild every week. It was the golden age of GvG’s IMHO due to the sheer amount of guilds doing it. We had a player ran website with a ladder where you could challenge other guilds. We had a player ran show that highlighted all the big matches and actually had videos of the matches with shout casting. Then blood lust dropped to kill the scene only to be resurrected later on T2. The T2 scene was great during its time but the number of actual guilds was down.

Even now the amount of players GvG’n is insanely more numerous than the naysayers can estimate.

So let’s stop with hate on GW2 GvG’s. If you think 20v20/15v15 takes no skill then obviously you’ve never done it and that’s fine. Just dont spew your ignorant rage all over a thread please.

p.s. Even now Anet is still making changes to the game to kill off any and all GvG in GW2. Latest patch and new WvW maps are prime examples. There is serious hate from anet there.

T raw.4658:

p.s. Even now Anet is still making changes to the game to kill off any and all GvG in GW2. Latest patch and new WvW maps are prime examples. There is serious hate from anet there.

They made an arena just for you in OS. Why would other maps affect you?

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Until there is another objective other than to just kill the other opponent there will be no such thing as GvG in GW2. Stronghold is probably the only thing close to GvG.

This is the closest thing to gw1 GvG. I’d say 10v10 stronghold.

The GvG developed and created in GW2 by the community is a 15v15 or 20v20 deathmatch.

2 slightly similar but largely different styles of GvG.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gvg

#micdrop #zergvszerg #10v10arena #aintnogvg

GW1 GvG is my favorite PvP for any game ever. All the “GvG” in gw2 is just a shame to the true GvG. Zerging is so lame a bunch of zombies could play this gvg. #micdrop

Dean Calaway.9718:

As for ruins and bloodlust, they came along when a significant number of players kept demanding something for a small group to do that would give a real map wide impact.

I’m sorry but that’s entirely subjective, and loosely associated, your reading way to much into it. At this time your simply arguing “because I say so”.

Once again I can only really recommend you watch the NDA leak.