Guild Wars 2

New trick consumable: Siege Disabler that disables enemy siege for 45 seconds and golems for 20 seconds. Cost of 10 supply and a 1200 range.

Excuse me? So now we spend money to build our siege in our keep and are desperately trying to defend it… BUT now the people outside can simply turn off our siege? What is the point of defending?

If this was for use against ATTACKING forces outside but unusable against any siege located on the walls inside the keep (the defenders) then it would be perhaps Ok)… But I imagine this will be for use against ALL siege.

Laying siege to a well defended castle should not be easy…. small numbers of men and women can defend against far superior numbers and it is the burden on the attacker to pay the price in blood to take the battlements and raise their flag. Yes this is a video game, but if these changes are real then Anet you are smacking the skulls of the WvW players who plan for defense and pay to do so with money, time, and supply. If a Havoc group can all come over with their “Siege Disabler” spells and nullify our siege in the time it takes to click their mouse…..giving them 45 seconds to AOE the now useless siege until destroyed…..

If this is all correct from that article then I say this is a POOR idea that should have ever seen the light of day. Combined with the rediculous pricing of EACH Commander color (300 gold per color) makes me question HOW you all think these changes as being portrayed are a Great Idea in the first place?

My Question: “Anet why do you hate us WvW players so much?”

link below was linked to by Reddit… posted it as a reference…cannot vouch for it being 100% accurate at this time….

link http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/September_2014_Feature_Pack#Features

If it works like the current traps, I imagine it’ll be more beneficial to defenders than to attackers. Even with 1200 range you’d have to trigger it somehow, I doubt it’s just something they can click on and activate on demand.

Kaos.9162:

If it works like the current traps, I imagine it’ll be more beneficial to defenders than to attackers. Even with 1200 range you’d have to trigger it somehow, I doubt it’s just something they can click on and activate on demand.

Just put the trap inside a gate being attacked. There’s always a mesmer clone glitching through the gate that could trigger it.

The new gate procedure is have a mesmer tag gate so clones trigger the trap a minute before the zerg arrives to drop rams.

It still doesn’t change the fact that more numbers gets more supply gets more points, it just slows it down a bit.

Kaos, if it does indeed work like a trap and only affects people crossing or on the same elevation as the trap then that would be decent… but with the way the Commander tag color thing is being rolled out it kind of scares me that it could be like a one user per purchase “spell” that has a range of 1200….

If it affects an AC or other siege on a tower wall by someone standing on ground level outside an unbreached tower that is where it would be BAD.

Sounds like its a trap, so I don’t think it’s very likely that this benefits attackers. Although I’m not sure exactly how it really benefits defenders, either, unless a golem rush was spotted and defenders came really quickly. Because otherwise it just stalls siege that may not even be built.

It would be awesome if a Developer would clarify this since Anet gave this info out in an interview at some game convention in europe if I recall correctly….

Isn’t this what EotM was supposed to be for? The testing of new feature for the rest of WvwW? Why aren’t these new WvW features being trialled in EotM?

Shiren.9532:

Isn’t this what EotM was supposed to be for? The testing of new feature for the rest of WvwW? Why aren’t these new WvW features being trialled in EotM?

Well, it’s not like there’s a lot of Golems running around in EotM is there?

Or defense either.

Shiren.9532:

Isn’t this what EotM was supposed to be for? The testing of new feature for the rest of WvwW? Why aren’t these new WvW features being trialled in EotM?

Because EotM doesn’t reflect WvW and is full of karma trainers and uplevels, so it’s not appropriate to use it as a testbed for a WvW tool.

You don’t swing a hammer underwater, after all.

A little off-topic: The image about the combat log on that page have various lines saying “You heal youself for 312 with [Unsuspecting Foe]”. I don’t recall that trait granting healing…

Unsuspecting Foe (Warrior – Arms VIII)

Increased critical-hit chance against stunned foes.

Critical Chance increase: 50%

BIG ISSUES ARE COMING :

• Attacking situation . blob master to his blob :

guys drop one disable trap in front of gate every 20 seconds and type /laugh in chat and start counting 20 secs for the next ….

• Defending situation . Defense Com in chat :

guys park your chars in front of every gate with disable traps and when you see the blob is coming , build them

nice ….. nothing changed . Coverage , AFK gaming wins again !!!!

lol disable rams/catas for 45 seconds. GG everyone, if this is true game is now officially broken.

Xillllix.3485:

lol disable rams/catas for 45 seconds. GG everyone, if this is true game is now officially broken.

So let me get this straight, you think attackers shouldn’t be hindered?

This sounds like it will help defenders, and the game needs something to help defense because right now it’s a thankless job. I’m waiting to see it’s impact.

Altie.4571:

Xillllix.3485:

lol disable rams/catas for 45 seconds. GG everyone, if this is true game is now officially broken.

So let me get this straight, you think attackers shouldn’t be hindered?

This sounds like it will help defenders, and the game needs something to help defense because right now it’s a thankless job. I’m waiting to see it’s impact.

In a keep with 1500 supplies it means you can disable the ennemy siege for 2 hours non stop.

No you can’t. Traps can’t be laid under stealth, and I dare anyone to stand in the middle of a zerg for 10 seconds and lay a trap. It’s simply not possible.

Laying a trap is not as simple as people think. What this will do is delay the attackers 45 or 20 seconds. That’s a good thing to promote defense/allow time to set up defense.

Altie.4571:

No you can’t. Traps can’t be laid under stealth, and I dare anyone to stand in the middle of a zerg for 10 seconds and lay a trap. It’s simply not possible.

Laying a trap is not as simple as people think. What this will do is delay the attackers 45 or 20 seconds. That’s a good thing to promote defense/allow time to set up defense.

Guardian bubble/stability lay trap. Ele armor of Earth /Lay trap hit mistform…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Siege_Disabler

450 radius is bigger than Meteor Shower… good luck ever using a Flame Ram ever again.

Also, it’s not a trap. They’re calling it a “trick.”

Im not amused by this trick.

It will hinder small group objective pushing more than using siege ever will.

yeah and if the attackers can deploy this against defensive siege on the walls it will be Horrible.

Imagine you buy the siege……you make supply runs to build it with….. you retick the siege so it does not despawn…you sentry the place (and no anet rewards for doing so)…. then Joe Havoc comes and his group keeps your siege disabled for 45 seconds while they calmly and cooly AOE it to dust. Now if that is how it actually will work that defender(s) spent a lot of time and money to never actually get to fire off a siege shot….

If that is the case: What is the point of defending?

This is the radius of Meteor Shower (360). According to the wiki (which could be wrong) the disabler is much bigger. (450)

I certainly hope that radius is wrong, because it will be impossible to use Flame Rams with this item in the game.

Altie.4571:

No you can’t. Traps can’t be laid under stealth, and I dare anyone to stand in the middle of a zerg for 10 seconds and lay a trap. It’s simply not possible.

Laying a trap is not as simple as people think. What this will do is delay the attackers 45 or 20 seconds. That’s a good thing to promote defense/allow time to set up defense.

When supply traps were novel and new, I absolutely did make a habit of placing them in dangerous locations mid-combat. I did this on non-stealth classes, including ele, necro, and warrior. It’s not only possible; It’s hilarious.

GW2 Wiki

Deployment Range: 1200
Effect Radius: 450

As a trick (rather than a trap), what this means is that the trick will be consumed exactly the same as a siege blueprint. The trick will replace your weapon skill bar with its own skills (deploy, and possibly a cancel to put it back in inventory). The Deploy skill will use the ground-targeting UI, the same as siege weapon blueprints do. It will have a 1200 unit range.

Players will use it as a ground-targeted skill which they can throw arbitrarily, anywhere on the map, in any situation, so long as they have line of sight and range to the target location, and are carrying the needed supplies.

A player with full Supply Mastery, taking from a supply depot that has the guild supply capacity buff, will carry 20 supply and be able to use the trick twice before resupplying.

I think it’s funny they don’t even test these things out or ask any major wvw guilds to test these out on a test server before bringing in the changes.

This trap sounds awful – lay one outside a tower and as a defender runs in it sets off, disabling all the ac within range, rinse, repeat, towers become even harder to defend.

For defenders, if they are organised it means rams will be disabled forever, but in practice people will try them for a while, learn counters, and in the end they will be used about as often as the other gimmick traps that they have put in.

TexZero.7910:

Im not amused by this trick.

It will hinder small group objective pushing more than using siege ever will.

Yup, what will most probably happen is the blobs attacking gates using skills…
They have to stop this BS stuff that tries to break blobs but just ends up promoting it more.

There had been rumours of movement speed debuff & constant swords on map for a “large group” (blob) but this will probably never make it into the game.

I remember seeing a video of a 5 man team holding off a large group before the aoe cap, that was kitten and made use of the terrain & skills, now its “run tight to mitigate dmg”

I don’t know, I’m going to withhold my judgment of this until I can see it in action. It is possible that this might promote more active engagements between players rather than siege.

If it works through walls and gates, it will effectively make both Rams and AC’s less effective. (Something that many have complained about – that both are too powerful).

This in turn may lead to two things that I think would be a positive.

1. Delaying the attacking force by preventing it from melting the gates in seconds with Superior Rams. Thus giving time for defenders to arrive to fight the enemy.

2. More open field usage of Catas and Trebs to break down walls/gates. This takes longer than Superior Rams and again gives time for reinforcements to arrive. Also promotes open field fighting because you’ll have to go out and fight to destroy the Catas and Trebs.

The way I’m reading the wiki, it sounds more like a thrown consumable that would then disable the siege near it’s landing site.

“Deployment Range: 1200”
“Effect Radius: 450”

Deployment is the whole laying it down part, so a deployment range of 1200 implies that it can be thrown like a grenade and then the Siege disabling effect covers the 450 radius circle where it lands.

If it works this way, then it is useable against any siege that you could normally hit with a ground targeted AoE and things like that. That pesky arrow cart on the wall can be suppressed even if you don’t have Team Elementalist dropping flaming boulders of doom on it. I’d like to see things like the shield bubble on catapults block the deployment as well, adding a sort of counter measure against the trick and more or less eating that 10 supply from the other team.

I’m not sure about personal blocks shutting down the trick, but the built in siege skills should protect against it.

Is this for real? Sounds like if you have fewer defenders than attackers, you’ll always lose your gates/walls.

And what did happen to the “EoTM as a WvW testbed” (that Anet explicitly used as one of the reasons for the creation of EoTM)?

Johje Holan.4607:

If it works through walls and gates, it will effectively make both Rams and AC’s less effective.

This trick won’t make Flame Rams less effective; it’ll make them useless. If it has no cooldown, one person will be able to shut down any number of Flame Rams for 45 seconds every 10 supply. A tower with 50 Supply would keep them disabled for almost four minutes. That’s insanely cost effective.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Is this for real? Sounds like if you have fewer defenders than attackers, you’ll always lose your gates/walls.

Before that judgement, we need to know usage cooldown times, and then see what player creativity does with it.

We also need to know if the skill effect is limited by player skill target counting (typically 5 to 10 targets) or siege target limits (typically 50).

Altie.4571:

Xillllix.3485:

lol disable rams/catas for 45 seconds. GG everyone, if this is true game is now officially broken.

So let me get this straight, you think attackers shouldn’t be hindered?

This sounds like it will help defenders, and the game needs something to help defense because right now it’s a thankless job. I’m waiting to see it’s impact.

Giving defence more tools won’t change it from being a thankless job, altering the rewards will. At the moment there is far more incentive to simply allow an enemy to flip a tower than there is to hold it. PPT is the only reason to defend and most players will choose champion bags over PPT, especially when they know they will lose the weekly PPT.

I’m concerned about Siege Disabler and golem mastery. In my experience golems are already the best way to hit an objective, especially if you build a lot of them. Really organised defence (upgraded keeps/towers, an hour+ of building defensive siege, traited siege users who know what they are doing) can defend objectives decently against everything (or hold out long enough with 10ish players for fast responding reinforcements) but golems. In my experience golems are like a cheap trump card that will steam roll almost any defence that doesn’t have a equal sized zerg already waiting in the tower (especially golems).

I suspect siege disabler will only work on stationary siege, not golems. Personally I think golems are already a trump card, combined with more defensive options (golem mastery) and more tools to hinder existing offensive siege, I am concerned golems will make attacking defended objectives too easy.

tl:dr I hope it works on golems too.

According to what was listed this will work on golems for 20 seconds

I don’t know what the problem is; nearly all towers that get taken are taken before the enemy even knows their gone. In case people forgot, 2-4 superior rams take down doors faster than the enemy can react.

There is also nothing stopping attacking forces to use catas or trebs completely out of of the 1200 range as well. What this does is force defenders to come out of their towers now to actually do something instead of sitting pretty on their AC’s.

There are only 2 real problems that are going to become of this:

1) As others have mentioned, hurts small groups.. drastically
2) Hackers; our beloved glitchers could cause severe problems with these. One person could literally stop an entire zerg by being untouchable under the ground disabling siege.

DeadlySynz.3471:

2) Hackers; our beloved glitchers could cause severe problems with these. One person could literally stop an entire zerg by being untouchable under the ground disabling siege.

That’s a really good point, especially since there’s virtually no chance Anet will ever act on the hacking/hackers.

If this can take out my defensive siege that I spend hours placing, I’m not ever going to defend again. That is all I have to say about that.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I don’t know what the problem is; nearly all towers that get taken are taken before the enemy even knows their gone. In case people forgot, 2-4 superior rams take down doors faster than the enemy can react.

There is also nothing stopping attacking forces to use catas or trebs completely out of of the 1200 range as well. What this does is force defenders to come out of their towers now to actually do something instead of sitting pretty on their AC’s.

There are only 2 real problems that are going to become of this:

1) As others have mentioned, hurts small groups.. drastically
2) Hackers; our beloved glitchers could cause severe problems with these. One person could literally stop an entire zerg by being untouchable under the ground disabling siege.

Sitting pretty on their ACs? Do you even know what defense means? It doesn’t seem like you even care about what this might do to defensive siege, as your only issue appears to be with possible hackers “stopping an entire zerg.”

If you don’t play defense, that’s fine, but many times those people ‘sitting pretty on their ACs’ are doing so against an overwhelming force, and those ACs give them some small chance of holding them back. I’m sorry if that disrupts your 360 noscope ktraining kekeke megazerg from steamrolling its way through everything like a blast of diarrhea, EotM-style.

Looks to me like this thing would allow a lone defender to delay attackers far longer than they could by just pew-pewing on an AC.

Virtute.8251:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Is this for real? Sounds like if you have fewer defenders than attackers, you’ll always lose your gates/walls.

Before that judgement, we need to know usage cooldown times, and then see what player creativity does with it.

We also need to know if the skill effect is limited by player skill target counting (typically 5 to 10 targets) or siege target limits (typically 50).

According to Reddit (here), there is no cooldown >.>. And it has a 1200 range, which means it can be thrown from pretty far away.

So uh, gg, have fun breaking into things with siege perma-disabled. Guess we’ll have to resort to nothing but PvDoor if trebs can’t be used at a certain tower or keep.

If this target circle is able to be placed on walls, though, it makes defending ACs/cannons/mortars/burning oil equally useless. They might as well just remove siege from WvW.

OH, YEAH!!!!

Give it to me, baby!!!

This has potential, I already love it!

Zone blobs without siege, MUAHAHA!!!

OH, YEAH!!!

I can understand a golem disabler trap, as its something I have been suggesting for some time. I don’t like the sound of something that just disables siege, however, especially if it can be placed by attackers to simply shut down a tower’s arrow carts.

It’s already impossible to build defensive siege anywhere near a wall, for fear of AOE or mesmers pulling the user constantly. With this, it may well be that defence becomes impossible.

As I understand the description it will work like a supply trap you place it and once it is triggered it creates an area of 1200 radius where the siege is disabled, that area lasts for 20 sec.

One per person active like with traps, placement at your feet like with traps, supply cost like with traps.

kitten YES. kitten the siege wars, kitten you ppt blobs who are too scared of fighting. kittening come at me brah. let the kittening karma train with fully upgraded keeps begin! >:)

give us a demonstration on how it works please. like a youtube video.

godofcows.2451:

give us a demonstration on how it works please. like a youtube video.

Nano.3706:

godofcows.2451:

give us a demonstration on how it works please. like a youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwkvOqrwpb8

Well played anet, you managed to make a decision that may be more kittened than charging 300g for colored commander tags.

I really hope there’s some sort of immunity for siege after one of these wears off, otherwise I might have to camp eotm with a bunch of these and ruin some ktrains.

Reborn.2934:

BIG ISSUES ARE COMING :

• Attacking situation . blob master to his blob :

guys drop one disable trap in front of gate every 20 seconds and type /laugh in chat and start counting 20 secs for the next ….

• Defending situation . Defense Com in chat :

guys park your chars in front of every gate with disable traps and when you see the blob is coming , build them

nice ….. nothing changed . Coverage , AFK gaming wins again !!!!

yup, pretty much same as ever…. my “supply” thief will just like before spam SR then go out and build a trap once the enemy zergs scout has passed.

I am curious to how this one will pan out. It may force new strategies (which we all know WvW needs to spice things up for at least a bit). I will reserve my judgment until I can see them in action.

The video linked above shows it in use at about 6:30.

I would think this is triggered when siege is present near the trap, not people, otherwise it would be pointless. People can just run over it and trigger it without siege around.

For the people demanding an explanation, they have a blog named Tricks and Explosive Finales on Aug19th. Not that I agree with the day by day blog crap they’re pulling for the next three weeks, but it’s kinda obviously where they are going to explain this.

The only 3 things I really want to see this working on is golems, rams, catas.

Edit: Just watched the video, it’s not a traditional trap, it’s a grenade.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

If this can take out my defensive siege that I spend hours placing, I’m not ever going to defend again. That is all I have to say about that.

Yeah that is precisely my concern…..

(for reference)

As it is a grenade type weapon with a 450 radius you can reach everything that is now reachable with AoE “wall spam” like meteor showers and necro marks. If the radius would only be 240 a lot of well placed siege on the walls would be safe, while attackers could still take out gate rams and catas built at the walls.
The way it is presented now, it will always be in favour of the larger attacking force with more supply and being able to chain those disablers on one or two ACs defending. If the disablers will be available only at spawn at the “tricks & trap” merchant tower defenders can’t even buy them during a siege at the T2 “siege outfitter” merchant. I really hope they add those vendors to the T2 level too.

Xenesis.6389:

I would think this is triggered when siege is present near the trap, not people, otherwise it would be pointless. People can just run over it and trigger it without siege around.

For the people demanding an explanation, they have a blog named Tricks and Explosive Finales on Aug19th. Not that I agree with the day by day blog crap they’re pulling for the next three weeks, but it’s kinda obviously where they are going to explain this.

The only 3 things I really want to see this working on is golems, rams, catas.

Edit: Just watched the video, it’s not a traditional trap, it’s a grenade.

Yeah its going to Kill Defense….. It is going to be even worse than some predicted…

Defensive siege in and on towers should be Immune from this.